Clinical practice asks us to recognise patterns, trust experience, and make decisions under uncertainty. But what happens when discovery comes not from certainty, but from staying open to surprise?

Dr. Neil Theise is a liver pathologist, stem cell researcher, Zen practitioner, and one of the scientists behind the discovery of the interstitium. In this conversation, he joins Michael to explore the tension between expertise and beginner’s mind, and how curiosity itself can become a path to deeper understanding.

Listen into this discussion as they explore the body as both structure and living continuum; how fascia, fluid, electricity, and awareness may be more interconnected than we realise; why perception changes depending on the “scale” we look from; and how science, meditation, and direct experience each reveal different truths about what it means to be human.