This week on The Liberty Alert, join Dr. Gregory Seltz and guest Tim Goeglein from Focus on the family with reflections on the Dobb’s Supreme Court victory, the end of Roe v. Wade, and the opportunity to re-instill the incredible value of human life back into our culture. With discussions not so much on “rights” but on “responsibilities, morals, and manners,” hear how people of faith can engage the culture in this post-Roe opportunity. Listen in for the political, the cultural, the moral, and the faith perspective on these vital issues and their impact on our culture and our mission….as we continue to grow in the wisdom needed to be 2 Kingdom citizens for the country we love. Join us!

The following program is sponsored by evangelical life ministries.

Welcome to the Liberty alert with Gregory. Seltz sponsored by our friends at the Lutheran center for religious liberties here in Washington, DC, a program that cuts through the chaos and confusion in the culture today by talking to kingdom, citizenship, old biblical principles for a robust public Christian life. And now your host, Dr. Gregory sells

Good day, good day, Washington, DC, and friends of the LCR L all across the country. Today, we welcome listeners from St. Louis on K F U O. This is the Liberty alert where every week we try to cut through the noise and take on the issues, especially the public issues that matter to people of faith. Or as we like to say at the LCR L we're trying to put our temporal liberties to work for the sake of the eternal liberties of God for all today in our program, uh, we are talking about the Dobbs case and the Dobbs victory on Friday and the overturning of Roe V Wade. And to do that again, our good friend of the LCR L and vice president of governor affairs from focus on the family, Tim Galine. So Tim welcome, and what a day it was. Right.

Yeah. And I think that's what I wanna talk about. First of all, is actually what did happen because, you know, there's a lot of people now speculating, oh, this is what happened. That is what happened. Uh, and in reality, what did happen was that the Supreme court said this is not in the constitution. And, and honestly, I wish they would've said more about the imorality of abortion, but they didn't. And they just merely said, this is something that people have to decide, and it's gonna be by their legislators, people that can be held accountable to their votes. And that's all that happened. Right.

You know, I I'm so glad you said that because when you and I had a conversation as almost a passing matter, we mentioned two books. We mentioned a book by Thomas. So, and we mentioned a book by Myron magnet, uh, the author of a little known book on, uh, called Clarence Thomas and the lost constitution. Right. and, uh, and one of the things that my, yes, and one of the things that Myron magnet says in his book about Clarence Thomas is that this is not only, uh, a, a, a historic figure for a number of reasons, but that this man Clarence Thomas believes very strongly, uh, in one thing above all, he believes that if the constitution says it, then it's constitutional law. But if the constitution does not say it, it is not constitutional law. Now this would seem to be fully agreeable on both sides of the chasm Greg, in which we find ourselves.

Correct. But unfortunately, it's not, this is a whole body of, of jus who believe in what is called the living constitution, which is that the role of a Supreme court justice is not to interpret the law as what the constitution says or doesn't say, but it is to be essentially a role of a legislator in a black Rob. And, and, uh, even though Clarence Thomas did not write the majority opinion, it was written by Samuel Alito, another extraordinary jurist, because when you read this elegant and very powerful decision in Dobbs, you realize what a remarkable influence Clarence Thomas, and before him, Anton and Scalia have had on the final Dobbs decision. I mean, the center of it is originalism textism and what the constitution actually says, or doesn't say,

And people need to understand the constitution is a document that limits the power of the government. And that's exactly what it's supposed to do. It's not supposed to be interpreted to expand the power of the government. And honestly, Roe V. Wade let's let, let me just say it this way. Roe V. Wade was the first time besides maybe like dread Scott, where the government gave power of some people to determine whether a life of another person was worth living or not worthy of life or not. So, you know, the slave owners now at dread Scott, oh, okay. You can treat the slave. Like he's not a human being and women or men or doctors or whatever. You can treat the child in the womb as if they're not a human being and do with them as you please. And, and that's actually the opposite of what government is. Exactly. Yeah. That's what, that's the opposite of what government's supposed to do. They're supposed to protect the weak against the strong, and they're supposed to actually maintain human dignity of all. And all that was happening here was, uh, people said the constitution, doesn't let you do that to people. And that's where we're at. Now.

Well, and what I also like to talk about Tim is I think what just happened, because again, you know, we're, pro-life people, which means we're, pro-life, pro-woman pro family pro husbands and fathers, you know, pro uh, sexual intimacy. You know, that is a beautiful thing between committed people, all these different kinds of things. We're very pro this, and this is a dynamic great way to live. I think what's interesting now is that the veneer of respectability of abortion has been removed because no one ever really talks about what actually we're talking about. They always talk about choice, or they talk about, uh, autonomy or something like that. They're still not talking about what they're doing with their choice and what they're doing with their autonomy and how we even got to the point where children are looked at as a disease rather than a blessing.

And so you could, they could always say, well, this is co we're. We're just in maintaining our constitutional rights. Well, that veneer of respectability has been removed. And so now we, we actually want to engage with people about why we cherish your life, not just our life, uh, and by the way, pro-life is pro woman. And it's a woman led movement more than it's a men led movement. And so do you think that's kind of where we're at? And I think maybe because that protection is been removed, now they have to dialogue about what actually this is. And I think that's actually a good thing, not a bad thing.

I, I, I do too. And I'm, and I love the way that you threaded the needle. If I may say thanks

Because

The pro, because, because the pro-life movement is to the 21st century, what the civil rights movement was to the 20th century. And frankly, what abolition was to the 19th century, right?

That

And Greg, I think this goes, if I may say very directly to your point, because even though we are rightfully celebrating Dobbs, right, I think as a country and a culture and a civilization, we are now going to have to absorb the reality that since nineteen seventy three, sixty 5 million innocent pre-born babies have lost their lives. I mean, we're missing, and those numbers are probably low. I mean, we're missing that many people. I, I just think, uh, it's almost breathtaking when you really internalize the sheer damage of, to your point, uh, about the violence against family, marriage, parenting, human life. Uh, I mean, it's really, uh, it's really something

Great. Now what? So I think that's the next question. Say, how do we reinstill into this culture, the notion, and let me just give you this example. I was, I was at the protest on Friday. Okay. And I was talking with people and there was this one guy from the Democrats for life. He was bad. I gotta I'd tell you that guy was great because he was in there. And he was just saying, I'm a Democrat and I'm pro-life. And then there was atheist for life. And, and I was listening to all the conversations. And finally, I was talking to this one guy and he, well, what are you gonna do? What's your solution? And I said, well, let me just, let me just step back from that, cuz you know, there's some solutions if you will, but I'm not here protesting and thankful that this was done for me, I'm here because I'm standing up for you.

And he was like, what? And, and this gal what I said, no, no we're here because your life is precious. And we don't want any government agency to be able to look at you and say, you're not a life worth living. And same thing with the potential children of your relationship. That's why we're here. And, and that really threw them for a loop because they're like, you mean you actually are here because our life is precious too. And I think, yeah, I mean, that's the next step, right? We've gotta talk about why this is important. Even for those who disagree with us.

Parenthood, planned parenthood to kill children, right?

Yes. It's, it's, it's, it's really a name out of George Orwell, isn't it? So you are right. And, and now the question is what is the way forward? And I think that Christianity will play a major role for

Good, you know, I'd like to, and, and you, it just came to my mind. I, so I'd like to re reiterate what you said in, in something that happened to me on the hill. Oh, I think it's been two or three years ago now, but I was on a panel for immigration. Okay. So, and I'm on this panel. And then after, and there's everybody who was in the room, Democrats, libertarians, Republicans, everybody, and this, this kid gets up. I think he was, uh, assistant to the, to one of the senators. And he said, how are we going to bring this country together? Cuz this is such a divisive issue. Okay. Real quickly. Uh, one guy jumps up the, the, the rabbi on the panel next to me, jumps up and says this. He said, if we could start treating each other as created in the image of God, we could begin to heal.

Mm-hmm . Now I always ask my people whenever I'm speaking, how did the room react to that man's statement? How did the room react to the rabbi and almost to a person they're thinking, ah, they were probably upset. They were probably mad. Maybe grumbling a little bit, no standing ovation. Now wait a minute. Mm-hmm created in the image of God means that we're all, you know, God's children and we can treat each other that way. How come? And then, so everyone's, you know, clapping. Well, I raised my hand and said, well, but the rabbi here's the problem. The rabbi cannot say that outside of this room, he can't say that in public. He can't say that at a public university. If he says that he will be dressed down in our culture, that is the problem. And I think we're seeing that with Roe V Wade, we're, we're being told that if we can't kill our children, whenever we want to, then somehow you are the mean person and we're saying, no, no, no. We're the person who really values your life values that child's life. And we're gonna try to work this through so we can be a more civil humane culture. All right. Where do we go from here then?

Well, I love Lincoln's Quip. He said, uh, the definition of hypocrisy is to murder your parents and then say, you're an orphan, you know, uh, and I think the reality here, Greg is the following. Um, it's no longer going to be acceptable on the part of the pro-abortion of minority in our country to speak in euphemisms anymore. That's right. Uh, it can no longer be in their terms about choice, about reproductive freedom, about another healthcare choice, whatever. Uh, if you are a 500 company, if you are the federal government, if you are a non-for-profit, if you're a small business, if you are whatever you are, uh, what the Supreme court decided in Dobbs was of a sudden, as we go forward and states begin to decide that people within states are going to have to decide and, uh, mature, healthy, constitutional republics. We negate hypocrisy in the way that Lincoln said, nobody gets to be an orphan.

And as our citizenship, we have to stand up and be counted. Uh, and I think Greg, that there is no more practical, important time than the application of the role of the church, where it finds itself. If you're in the heart of Manhattan, if you're in the heart of Los Angeles, if you are a rural parish in the smallest village or town of Wisconsin, uh, or Maine, all of a sudden, you have to say what it is you believe about human life, because the stakes now in a real democracy, uh, in a, in a, in the places where we live states are gonna sort this out and they begin to sort it out in the way that I think was strongly emphasized in the majority opinion in dos, uh, at the most local and organic level.

And I think one of the, and that well said, and one of the things that, uh, uh, and again, hasn't been talked about much because of the euphemisms is how abortion is very destructive to the lives of women physiologically psychologically. There, you know, it is a brutal practice, not just for the child, obviously it ends the child's life, but it's also very, very bad for the woman who actually goes through it. And there's all kinds of pressures on the woman to do that. And, and so no more what I call a woman hating chauvinism. And, and here's what I say. I, I actually believe abortion's a chauvinistic thing on women where men say, here's my 200 bucks. That's all that I, it's your choice. Not mine. I don't need to raise that kid here. I'm out. Well, that's, that's the most chauvinistic thing a man can do and we're against that, but it's also no more, uh, man hating feminism that creates that kind of chauvinism and get back to loving each other, cherishing our women, cherishing our men, cherishing the potential to have a child in a committed relationship where the child is, is now seen as a blessing, not a medical emergency.

And, and so, again, like you said, we gotta get back to all of that. And that comes down to, um, looking at each other as made in the image of God, a life worth cherishing. Now, I also wanna throw a out there that, that I was approached. Um, and I'm sure you were too, you know, the, uh, family security act, and we're not gonna talk about it, cuz I'm not here to advocate it at this point or not. I did sign onto it, but it was something that was, uh, put forward because at if, if row were to end, they wanted to now put something forward. That was pro family. That was pro woman that was pro uh, incentivizing the right things for government to do in, in our lives rather than incentivizing them to take the easy way out and, and just terminate the pregnancy. So even the, you know, I guess what I'm saying is even on the hill, they're not just sitting on their hands on this. And so not only should we take our citizenship seriously and deal with it in our state levels, but we also have people who realize that marriage, family, and cherishing one another are the way to go.

Absolutely. And, uh, I love the idea. I really do, um, of holistically saying in a post row world, what are our, not our, what are our rights? That's important of course, but what are our duties? What are responsibilities? Uh, I, you know, as a conservative, I would much rather, uh, speak about duties. Uh, you know, on most days the week I love Edmond. Burke's a great observation that morals and manners are far more important and conducive, you know, to the working of a healthy society, sometimes in laws, not that we negate the law, but morals and manners are, are, are, are the tendons and they, and, and they matter. And so it's gonna be very important for the pro-life movement to not just say, but to demonstrate how we help, uh, to nourish, uh, and, uh, and to provide assistance, uh, to mothers, to fathers, to, to, to the baby, uh, who has been born, uh, and to have a holistic approach, uh, in, in the pro-life ethos. And I think the pro-life movement is quite prepared to do that.

I do. Yeah. I

Agree. Yeah, mm-hmm yes.

Well, so, so

I'm very San in that regard.

Well, and you know, what's amazing to me is, uh, we, you know, kids that go to college today, they're taught, what's called deconstructionism. They know how to tear everything down. And I think that's what the sixties did. It was gonna tear down our culture and it was gonna make it a Liberty paradise. Well, we've seen the destructive aspects of that deconstruction, what I've learned over and over again, in all my readings, they don't know how to build anything up because it's always about just tearing down, tearing down, tearing down. And so you're right. The, the, the duties, the manners, the way we live, our life, that opportunity, that challenge that time is now. And I think that's great for the culture.

And may I say Greg very quickly, although he did not live to employ his promise, let's remember that the great Abraham Lincoln said what would come after the civil war would be what reconstruction reconstruction. And, and unfortunately, very unfortunately, tragically the man who was his, uh, vice president was remarkably incompetent and not committed to reconstruction, but we're the new abolitionists that's right. Uh, and we've, and, and we have just had an extraordinary, a blessing, uh, because of, uh, God's, uh, you know, divine sovereignty and intervention in, in the life of our public square. And so I believe that as the new abolitionists, we now have to look for a new reconstruction. We have to ask ourselves, what is the way forward, uh, for our country, our culture and our civilization, how can we renew it? How can we restore it? Uh, you know, this side of attorney redeem it. I think that, uh, that this kind of era of, uh, you know, of the, of the acts of renewal are gonna be very important

And now life and love. We can see it coming from below, not from above well, from above, from God, but not from government, any kind of government agency above us. We get a chance to actually be those kind of people for one another. And what a great day, uh, June 24th was thanks for tuning in today to get to know our LCR L DC work better. Check out our website@lclfreedom.org contain. There are resources to empower your public square dynamic discipleship, or check out our weekly word from the center opinion piece every Friday at facebook.com/l C R L freedom till next time, God bless you. Always I'm Gregory. Seltz have a great week.

You've been listening to Liberty alert with Dr. Gregory Seltz executive director of the Lutheran center for religious Liberty in Washington, DC. This program has been brought to you by the Lutheran center for religious Liberty.