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Scaling Excellence Across Your Sales Organization - Kyle Asay
Episode 49 • 24th September 2024 • RevOps FM • Justin Norris
00:00:00 00:53:17

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Shownotes

Sales leadership is one of the hardest jobs in the company. Your success is black and white—you've either hit your number, or you haven't—and getting a group of sellers moving in the same direction isn’t easy, as anyone in RevOps knows.

Today we're joined by Kyle Asay to dig into what separates top-performing sales leaders from the rest. We talk about how to scale sales excellence, balance standardization with creativity, and build trust and rapport at every stage of the sales process.

Kyle also shares his insights on navigating the transition from individual contributor to sales leader, the real role of AI in outbound, and how to build a side hustle while leading a team.

Packed with practical frameworks and hard-won lessons, this conversation is a must-listen for sales leaders, individual sellers, and revenue operators supporting sales teams.

Thanks to Our Sponsor

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About Today's Guest

Kyle Asay started his career in sales as an SDR at Qualtrics, where he qualified for five consecutive President’s Clubs as an AE, front-line leader, and second-line leader.

After an incredible 8.5 years at Qualtrics, he's gone on to serve as a sales leader for MongoDB and currently at LaunchDarkly.

You can also find him sharing his frameworks with over 10,000 sellers at SalesIntroverts.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyleasay/

Key Topics

  • [00:00] - Introduction
  • [01:52] - Current selling environment
  • [04:46] - Scaling sales excellence
  • [10:05] - Right-sizing discovery phase
  • [12:39] - Building trust and rapport
  • [17:53] - Transitioning from sales IC to sales leader
  • [20:46] - The job of a sales leader
  • [24:10] - Identifying the right people
  • [27:47] - Standardized process vs. individual ingenuity
  • [30:59] - Handling the pressure of sales leadership
  • [34:55] - AEs and SDR alignment
  • [42:47] - AI SDRs
  • [44:59] - Sales and RevOps relationship
  • [48:23] - Building a side hustle

Thanks to Our Sponsor

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Transcripts

Justin Norris:

So let's face it,

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the sales leader has the

hardest job in the company.

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Although I think the marketing

leader is a pretty close second.

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And I'd argue this because success

in sales is black and white.

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Like you've either hit

your number or you haven't.

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The DocuSign has come in or it hasn't.

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There's no credit for influence

revenue or brand or MQLs.

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And while sales is hard enough as an

individual contributor, at least you

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have some semblance of control over

your destiny, but when you're the sales

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leader, your fate depends on other people.

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It's whether you can motivate,

enable, and support a team of

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sellers to all hit their numbers.

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And for those of us that work in

RebOps, we know that's not always

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the easiest thing to get all those

sellers marching in the same direction.

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So it's not surprising that when you look

up the average tenure of a sales leader,

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you see some crazy figures, things like.

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19 months and I'm really curious to

understand what top performing sales

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leaders do Aside from asking their

teams to update their forecast five

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times a day And so to help answer that

question today, we are joined by Kyle AC

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He has spent over eight years in sales

leadership at Qualtrics where he had years

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as number one corporate AE number one

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He's also one of the most prominent

voices in sales leadership on LinkedIn.

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In his spare time, you'll find him as

the founder of sales introverts, where

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he builds frameworks to help other

sellers experience the same success.

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Kyle, so stoked to have you here today.

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Thanks for coming on the show.

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Kyle Asay: Thanks, Justin.

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Excited to be here.

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Justin Norris: maybe just to start

off, we can focus on the current

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environment that we're experiencing.

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I'm a software buyer, rather

than a seller, but I know that

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I am buying less software.

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the software that I am buying is

scrutinized way more by, finance and

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legal and ops, uh, within my company.

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I am negotiating more.

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I am more price sensitive.

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Are you experiencing these

things right now as a seller?

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And like, how have you adapted to

this post reset world that we are in?

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Kyle Asay: Yeah, 100%.

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If anybody's not, shoot me a note

and tell me what you're doing.

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What I'm seeing is where we used to win

a lot of deals when we found a problem.

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Now we're only winning deals

when we find the problem.

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And so when we're doing our

discovery, it's not just understanding

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what is top of mind for you.

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It's what's top of mind for

you that's also top of mind.

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For your boss and other

leaders across the company.

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we're seeing a lot of problems that

two years ago would have been solved

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immediately, but are now being pushed to

the back burner because companies don't

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have the internal resources to solve it.

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They don't have the budget to solve

it, or they're just more focused

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with limited headcount and capacity

on a bigger priority problems.

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but yeah, we're seeing,

uh, it's tougher to win.

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It's tougher to win big

and it's lower to win.

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All, all those things are coming together.

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Justin Norris: I'm also finding strangely

enough, and I don't know what it's like in

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your specific niche, but, the places where

I'm participating as a buyer, usually

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it's actually even more crowded because

I think it's, there's, you know, lower

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cost of entry to start building software.

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So there's way more vendors.

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The landscape is changing.

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How do you think about.

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Standing out versus your competitors

or are you lucky enough that

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you have like a pretty narrow

field where you're selling today?

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Kyle Asay: So it's very noisy.

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It's never been easier to create

software to launch companies.

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that's part of why I was very

selective when I chose another

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company to work for with LaunchDarkly.

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they're recognized as one of

the top platforms in the space.

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So that helps.

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Like, I don't think I'm a good enough

sales leader to sell a bad product.

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So that, that plays a role.

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But even when you have the best product,

or you say you have the best product,

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because every sales leader says they

have the best product, we still have

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to deal with the increased noise.

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I'm really big on, for my team,

let's not just sell the best

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product, let's also execute the best.

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Because if you have a sales team that

is quality enough to sell an inferior

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product, and you're lucky enough to

sell a great product, those two things

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come together really, really well.

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So I'm all about, as a job

seeker, I want to find a company

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where their product is great.

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As a sales leader, I want to

drive sales excellence, so we

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can differentiate by how we sell.

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How we show up in discovery, how we

show up in demos, how we show up in

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POVs, so that way the buyers aren't

just thinking, okay, this product

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looks great, but they're also saying

the experience with the sales team

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was better than what I usually see

from other vendors in the space.

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Justin Norris: How do you do that

at scale like I guess that's always

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the the challenge because you as

an individual seller may understand

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how to drive that experience.

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is it a process thing?

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Is it like a coaching and an

empathy thing with your team?

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Like how do you figure that out?

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Kyle Asay: You take one

small bit at a time.

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And so this quarter, all we're focusing

on is our continued improvements on

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messaging for our pipeline generation.

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That was our first focus

in our PG outbound.

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How do we sound different?

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Then the competition, how do

we not come across the same as

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everybody hiding behind, auto

sequences and AI generated content?

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How do we come across

different in that first touch?

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Now we're putting more emphasis

on discovery from the very start

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of discovery, how do we show up

and tell the buyer, I actually

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understand your business.

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I understand you as a person.

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I'm not going to spend your

time for the next 30 minutes

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asking superficial questions.

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I'm going to get right into priorities.

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So now we're teaching that.

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We have a long way to go, because anything

that has to be brought out across an

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entire org cannot be fixed overnight.

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We're very intentional around what is

the most urgent thing to focus on first.

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For us, it was pipeline

generation, and now discovery.

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And then what are tools that we can

release through enablements, through

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marketing, to supplement the teaching that

we're doing, and how do we go enforce it.

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So we rolled out this

new way of discovery.

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We did enablement, now it's a scrutiny.

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Okay, reps, who's using it, who's not?

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I'm listening to calls,

I'm doing call reviews.

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We're coaching, because

it's not great yet.

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We're not differentiating yet by

how we sell, but we're going to

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continue to make improvements.

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When we fix that part of the

process, we'll figure out then how

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do we differentiate by how we demo.

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But how do we do POVs?

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And you keep going through the process.

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that's how you scale it.

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One, very small piece at a time until

you get people in the right spot.

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Then you're on to the next.

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Justin Norris: I love what you're saying.

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and I'd actually like to even just

go deeper because, you know, in

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RebOps, we're often a partner with

the sales leader and helping design

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and roll these initiatives out.

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I faced these challenges firsthand.

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So maybe just starting from the

beginning, like what you described,

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let's take discovery because

we can all understand that one.

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You want to improve it.

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how do you think through like, the

training or the framework that you're

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going to design up to the point of

like releasing it and like trying to

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get this into the heads of all those

people that you're working with.

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Kyle Asay: So you start

with the outcome in mind.

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What are the takeaways that we as sellers

selfishly want to have from the call?

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And then more importantly,

what do we think that the buyer

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wants to get out of the call?

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And then you design from there.

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And so we worked closely actually with

RevOps, we worked closely with marketing

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around, okay, what are the things

that buyers most frequently want to

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understand after a first call with us?

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How can we bring them that context

immediately in the conversation

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without falling into presentation mode,

without going into a premature demo?

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Then what are the questions that we need

to ask to understand their priorities?

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Their current states and how they're

measuring the negative consequences of

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their current state to see if we even

have a priority worth going further into.

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Then how do we marry those together?

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How do we bring together the

information that we know the

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buyers want to get quickly?

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With the questions that we want answers

to quickly and orchestrate it in a

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way we're in a 30 minute conversation.

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We leave.

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Do we have a priority worth solving?

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And is the buyer confident?

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That we're a likely enough

solution to solve it that they

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want to invest more time with us.

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And then the umbrella behind all of that

is the command of the message framework.

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I'm big on command of the message, never

going to claim I invented anything to

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do with that, but we're really big on

implementing that as part of discovery

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with the deck that we built as a mechanism

to drive a conversation with context.

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So the buyer knows that we're educated.

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And discovery.

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So we go deeper into what matters.

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Justin Norris: So you've

designed this, process.

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And let's say that like you as a great

seller, you could go and take that

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process and run a great discovery

to get your team up to that level.

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So first step, like, do you announce it?

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Do you have enablement, roll out a course?

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What's the next step to

like get them on their way.

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Kyle Asay: Yep.

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So the enablement piece is

all about the awareness.

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why are we implementing this?

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What are the gaps that we have so far

that we feel like need to be addressed

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to improve assessment or moving forward?

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Cause you got to get buy in

from the sellers to some extent.

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as much as sales leaders want to

say, and I'm guilty of this too.

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Sometimes I get it.

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You have to do this.

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Go do this.

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If sellers don't have the

buy in to understand the why.

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If they do implement it, it's not

going to be implemented well, right?

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It's not supposed to be

a check the box exercise.

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So the awareness of why, then teaching

how to use it, then it's also embracing

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the idea that it's not perfect yet.

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We know it's not perfect.

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This is new.

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We need to go get data, review

calls, figure out what's missing.

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But here's how we think it should be used.

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Go use it in this review together.

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So now we're in the

process of reps using it.

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And some of us are coming back and

saying, Hey, that went incredibly well.

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It was a great discovery.

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Others come back and say,

Yeah, that really flopped.

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That went terribly.

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Let's go look at why.

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What did we do wrong?

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What's wrong with the tool?

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What's wrong with our process?

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And then we calibrate.

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that's the process.

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Why we had to do it.

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Why we did it the way that we did.

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Here's how to use it.

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Now, let's go use it, get

feedback, coach, and get better.

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Justin Norris: I know when I am a buyer

and I'm in a discovery call, I'm usually

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sitting there like to show me the product.

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I I think buyers in general feel this,

like they just want to see product and

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there's good reasons to do discovery.

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And on the other side of the

fence, we want to qualify, we

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want to extract information.

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you address that tension a little bit in

your description of how you design the

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discovery process, but how do you like.

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Walk that line between like we need

some information to make sure that

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we are heading in the right direction

and that you know We know what your

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problem is you're trying to solve

versus you don't want to sit there

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and play 20 questions as a buyer.

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You want to see the product quickly

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Kyle Asay: think it is how you

set up the objective for the call.

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And I've been pretty passionate about

this for the long time because the

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buyer is thinking, How can you help me?

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How are you different?

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And how can you prove it?

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The entire time.

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There's that skepticism.

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There's these fears of, you're

gonna try to oversell me.

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You're gonna say you're the right fit.

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You don't know me, so I like to

be very clear from the beginning.

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job today is to figure out if

I'm right in my hypothesis of the

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problems that we can solve for you.

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And then we're going to leave the

call with you having a pretty good

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understanding of how we would go about

solving those problems, so you can decide

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if you want to continue the conversation.

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Now, before I can go show you

specifically how we might solve those

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problems, I do need a little bit

of context for how you're currently

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managing insert use case for us is

how you're releasing software, right?

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I'm never going to be so bold as to say.

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We are the best solution for everybody.

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That'd be a disservice to you.

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And so while I think we might be a

good fit, I'm not gonna tell you that

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we are until I better understand how

you're currently doing it, what the gaps

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are, what you'd like it to look like.

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but I'm given the commitment

upfront that we're not going

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to end the first call with.

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Okay, well, I just learned everything

about you that I wanted to know.

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I know that you know nothing about me

still, but let's schedule another hour.

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So then I can tell you how

I might be able to help.

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Some of the buyers are like,

nah, just send me a case study

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and I'll, I'll review it.

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Right.

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And so it's that balance of being upfront.

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I want to get to where you want

to get to as quickly as possible.

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Here's what I have to understand

before I can get you there accurately.

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Get the buy in, have that conversation.

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And then part of the deck that we have

is to sprinkle in some of the context.

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Here are the outcomes we drive.

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Here's actually a little

bit of the platform.

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Here's how it's constructed.

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Here's what it looks like.

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Here's how we're different.

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We're giving that context as

we go, so it feels more like a

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give and take conversation than

that 20 questions that you just

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mentioned, which is so

common in discovery.

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I just barrage you with questions.

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Then at the end, I give you this 30

second, like, Vomit spiel of a demo, kind

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of, and then I beg you for another call.

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Justin Norris: and you've kind of

alluded to that skepticism that uh a

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lot perhaps most buyers bring and I

thought I found personally like the best

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relationships I've had with sellers.

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They have been able to like build

some trust where I feel like my

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alliance almost shifts a little bit.

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Like obviously I'm always working

in the best interest of my company,

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but more like I feel a partnership

with the salesperson to try to get

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a deal done rather than like, we're

on opposite sides of the fence.

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how do you think about building that

trust, either as a seller or, things that

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you have your team do to build that trust?

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Kyle Asay: So trust and rapport,

I think are two different things.

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Just call it that part of my philosophy.

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Cause I was never one for being

great at small talk, right?

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So that's not how I went

about building trust.

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I think trust is feeling like the seller.

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Legitimately wants to find a good

outcome for you as a buyer, whether

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or not it's with their product.

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And this is really hard to do as a seller.

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When you're pressured to close deals,

it's really difficult to actually

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go authentically disqualify buyers.

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But I found that when buyers

give skepticism about something.

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Don't just disregard it.

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So yeah, that's valid skepticism.

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You should be worried about that.

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We actually have seen situations

where it didn't work out.

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Here's why, but calling out reasons why

you might not be a great fit for some

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people calling out reasons why they

may not be ready for your solution,

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calling out the risks and how you plan

to mitigate the risks are much better.

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Then, oh, we're so easy to implement.

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Everything always goes great.

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It's, hey, we get feedback that we're

pretty easy to implement, but here

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are some things that we see go wrong

that we want to get ahead of to make

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sure if you do move forward, you

don't experience the bad outcomes.

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Little subtle tweaks like that, showing

the buyer that we're not here to win at

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all costs, but we're here to actually

help them make a great decision.

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And if we're not the right

decision for them, end the

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conversation as soon as possible.

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So I can go back to where I

should be spending my time.

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There's a long way to build that trust.

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Justin Norris: It's interesting that

you differentiated trust and rapport,

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I hadn't thought of it that way before.

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is rapport still important from

your point of view, or is it

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just, it's like a separate thing?

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Kyle Asay: I think it depends on who

you're selling to, because there is

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the emotional element of sales, and

think it's very difficult to work

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with somebody that you don't enjoy

working with, but there are some people

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that great rapport is built because

you understand their business, you

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understand the outcomes they care about.

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For other people, great rapport is built

because you understand them personally.

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You understand what they like to

do, what their weekend plans are.

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Uh, what I have found though,

is most people on like the

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personality spectrum of, I want

a lot of personality and rapport.

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They're all kind of medium, right?

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And so for me as a very introverted

seller, there's only one deal

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that I can remember where I had

to really elevate my sociability.

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Because the buyer I was working with

was such an incredibly energetic,

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personable person, where if I had

tried to get right down to business,

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they probably would have shied away.

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So I had to go way above my comfort

zone on the rapport building aspect.

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But I found that most people are

more in the middle of the spectrum.

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And so I default to look like

rapport is great, but deals don't

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get closed in enterprise SaaS.

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Because they like you as a person deals

get closed because you add value now

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You're going to get the chance to prove

you can add value a lot more frequently if

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they like you So you can't just be a jerk

and just go right to the business, right?

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Like if they don't like you they're

not going to give you the chance to

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even go prove it But if I had it just

one or the other I'm going with trust

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because people buy from people that

they trust to actually deliver the

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outcomes that they claim they can.

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Justin Norris: 100%.

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this is a tangent, but I'm curious,

because you mentioned being an introverted

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seller, and I probably could have guessed

that by the name of Um, and yet, very

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comfortable on camera, making videos,

putting yourself out there all the time,

346

:

trying to reconcile that a little bit.

347

:

Like, is it, a conscious going

against, the introversion that you,

348

:

feel or, uh, how do you navigate that?

349

:

I suppose.

350

:

Kyle Asay: So I can do it.

351

:

It just exhausts me.

352

:

And so as an introvert, I get my energy

from being alone, doing quiet things.

353

:

But when I'm doing my job, like if I

have to go give presentations to a large

354

:

group, if I have to go lead all hands

calls, if I have to go to an office

355

:

and get people excited about what we're

building together, I can go do that

356

:

and people will think I'm an extrovert.

357

:

What they don't see is when I'm at like

a multi day training somewhere for our

358

:

company, as soon as I finish my three

hour presentation while everybody else

359

:

goes to get snacks and mingle, I'm going

straight back to my hotel room, falling

360

:

onto my bed, and just like decompressing

for that 30 minute break before going

361

:

back to leave more presentations.

362

:

So I can do the videos, I can

do everything I need to do.

363

:

It's just, it's not how I get

energized, it's how I get drained.

364

:

I also enjoy doing it, ironically.

365

:

It just comes back down to where I

get energy versus where I need to

366

:

go, what I need to go recover from.

367

:

Justin Norris: yeah, I'm the exact

same way and I mean, I could ask

368

:

myself the same question because

there I am doing a podcast, but I go

369

:

to like a conference or something.

370

:

I'm back at the hotel room as soon as

the trade floor closes and just sort

371

:

of putting myself in that, vacuum,

getting some space so I can relate

372

:

completely to what you're saying.

373

:

I want to dive bit more deeply again

onto the sales management side.

374

:

And I think this is a common truth across

any role, but perhaps specifically in

375

:

sales, there can be like a promote to

failure thing where you have superstar.

376

:

I see you say, great, let's make

them a manager, become a manager.

377

:

and they fail at it either because

they're not prepared or maybe they

378

:

don't actually enjoy that work.

379

:

You've made that leap successfully.

380

:

what did it involve for you?

381

:

Kyle Asay: It involved a heavy

reliance on documentation.

382

:

And so what I found is, I generally knew

what I was doing to have success, but

383

:

until I really sat down and methodically

wrote out what I was doing to have

384

:

success, it was difficult to teach it.

385

:

So I began to document all the

stuff I was doing, the way I ran

386

:

discovery, the way that I ran demos,

the way I did territory management.

387

:

As I wrote it out, it forced me to

actually understand what, how, and

388

:

why I acted the way that I did.

389

:

Then as I was able to teach

it in a more clear way, it was

390

:

easier for people to adopt.

391

:

And then I had to go through the

transition of understanding that,

392

:

well, okay, just so I can teach it

clearly and it works for me, doesn't

393

:

mean that everybody can apply it

the exact same way that I have.

394

:

So then it had to become more nuanced.

395

:

How did I manage different

people differently?

396

:

And it all, grew from there, but it

started with pressure in myself based

397

:

on mentorship from one of my leaders,

Kyle, you know how to sell, but you got a

398

:

good figure on teach others how to sell.

399

:

And documentation became one of

the best things I have done for

400

:

myself as I transitioned from

an IC to a sales leader role.

401

:

Justin Norris: Is that common with others?

402

:

Because that's like a very rev

up such answer like documentation

403

:

and probably like that.

404

:

I love to hear that.

405

:

It isn't something I always see

from other sales leaders that

406

:

I've worked with in the past.

407

:

Is it common in your experience?

408

:

Or is that more of a you thing?

409

:

So

410

:

Kyle Asay: that I meet with that wants

advice on career progression, whether

411

:

they want to be an enterprise IC and

a strategic accounts rep or a leader.

412

:

Because people that are able to clearly

articulate how they have success are

413

:

more likely to be promoted than someone

that has success, but can't define

414

:

why, and some of them wants to go into

leadership, having a documented process.

415

:

I mean, talk about how easy my interviews

are, when I go into new companies.

416

:

So they ask me, what's

your process for this?

417

:

I just show them.

418

:

How do you coach?

419

:

Here's my framework.

420

:

How do you do performance management?

421

:

I wrote this.

422

:

I just pull up everything that I do

and it's very easy to articulate.

423

:

And then when I'm asked to

describe it, it sounds like it's so

424

:

straightforward and clear, but it's

just because I've written it out so

425

:

many times So if you're not doing it

today, do it because it'll pay off.

426

:

No matter what your career path is,

sales, rev ups, marketing, document

427

:

what you do that works and doesn't work.

428

:

Cause then when people

ask you, how do you do it?

429

:

And you give them a clear answer.

430

:

If you're like me, you'll look

smarter than you actually are, which

431

:

has great benefits to a career.

432

:

Justin Norris: taking it up for a

second because I'm a big fan of first

433

:

principles and I like define things.

434

:

How do you think about?

435

:

The job of a sales leader, like,

aside from like hitting the number,

436

:

like that's your job, obviously.

437

:

But in terms of like what you need

to focus on and do, how do you,

438

:

what's your North star as a leader,

439

:

Kyle Asay: one of the people leaders I

had early in my career was big on this.

440

:

So if he's listening, he'll be proud.

441

:

Uh, your job as a manager, whether

you're in sales or not is to drive an

442

:

aligned result for sales, the support and

aligned results is going to be revenue.

443

:

The way you drive towards revenue

is you're going to be recruiting and

444

:

retaining great talent in order to

recruit and retain great talents.

445

:

You need to be able to develop people,

motivate people and hold them accountable.

446

:

But if I bucket out the job of a sales

leader is charged with that foundational

447

:

layer, recruit and retain great people.

448

:

Which requires developing people, hold

them accountable to hit their ceiling.

449

:

If you do those things, revenue follows,

and then the aligned results of quota

450

:

attainment, high percentage reps sitting

quota, highly engaged sales teams,

451

:

high retention, all those things fall

into place with those focus points.

452

:

Justin Norris: you talk about recruit

and retain, and, a lot of that can

453

:

come back to who you are as a manager.

454

:

And I know when we think about sales

managers, you know, if you watch like

455

:

corporate bros videos, sales managers

don't come off super well, or even

456

:

in some of your own videos, you kind

of satirize yourself a little bit.

457

:

Just sitting there, you know, asking

people to update their dashboards.

458

:

but it kind of does

relate to a real thing.

459

:

There are some toxic

sales managers out there.

460

:

There's some managers that

people don't like to have.

461

:

obviously you can't just be buddy buddy

all the time, but being loved, not

462

:

feared, and yet getting the result that

you want, how do you figure that out?

463

:

Kyle Asay: Part of it is recruiting the

right people because the right people are

464

:

going to be good with being challenged and

held accountable to the right behaviors.

465

:

If you, recruit and

retain the wrong people.

466

:

Then you're going to be forced to

balance being the friend versus

467

:

being the cheerleader, and it's

very difficult to go have the hard

468

:

conversations around accountability.

469

:

So right people really is the

foundational pillar there.

470

:

Then from there, when you have the

right people that want to be challenged,

471

:

want to get better, I hold myself to

as high of a standard for developing

472

:

my people as I hold them accountable

to the effort I need to be successful.

473

:

And so I, love to go do

call reviews with reps.

474

:

I love to go diagnose their deals.

475

:

I love to go help.

476

:

I love to go help with

pipeline generation.

477

:

I'll send LinkedIn videos.

478

:

I'll make cold calls.

479

:

I'm not great at those things

right now, but I'll still try.

480

:

I want to do the work so that

people know that I'm brought in.

481

:

But what I've found.

482

:

Is when you're all in on developing

people when you're very clear on

483

:

expectations and why they are expectations

and why they matter and the reps buy

484

:

in that they matter, but you combine

great development focus and great

485

:

accountability to the right metrics.

486

:

Then you get reps that progress, begin to

see wins, as they begin to see wins, they

487

:

buy in more to what you're rolling out.

488

:

That gives you the license to roll out

more changes, more improvements, which

489

:

leads to increased adoption, more winning.

490

:

And then you do this right, and six

to nine months after rebuilding the

491

:

sales org, you're going to have a group

of people that are thinking, okay.

492

:

There is no company I can work for

right now where I'm going to learn

493

:

as much as I'm learning today.

494

:

There's no company I can work for

right now that's going to challenge

495

:

me as much as I'm challenged today.

496

:

And then why would they

want to leave at that point?

497

:

Justin Norris: You talk about the

right people and coachability,

498

:

obviously based on what you're

saying is a very important part.

499

:

What other criteria do you look

at to identify the right people?

500

:

Kyle Asay: So right people

will vary based on the company

501

:

that you sell for right now.

502

:

What is consistent for me is the traits.

503

:

So you're looking for coachability.

504

:

You're looking for high EQ.

505

:

You're looking for grit, work ethic.

506

:

Like I never want to have reps

that I need to remind to work hard.

507

:

I don't want to prod people along.

508

:

That's not a good use of my

time or their time so that the

509

:

traits are pretty consistent.

510

:

Where it differs a little bit based

on the company that I lead for are the

511

:

skills because transferable skills do

matter when you're looking at complex

512

:

sales cycles and larger deal sizes.

513

:

And so for me, I'm looking for proven

understanding of sales process.

514

:

It doesn't have to be my sales process,

but it does need to be an understanding

515

:

of how to methodically approach a deal.

516

:

So I'm not starting from

scratch with a seller.

517

:

I need to have a proven

ability to generate pipeline.

518

:

They need to know how to cold call.

519

:

Do good emails, use multi

channel, and they need to have

520

:

some level of technical acumen.

521

:

We sell to developers.

522

:

Developers do not inherently love talking

to salespeople, and you quickly lose

523

:

them if you have no grasp of their world.

524

:

And so while I don't expect a seller to

come in understanding our product from day

525

:

one, I do need them to have some level of

understanding of the technical landscape

526

:

or the ability to quickly learn it.

527

:

So when I'm hiring, I'm looking

for all the traits I care about.

528

:

Those are non negotiable.

529

:

And then I'm looking for at least

two of the three transferable skills,

530

:

because if I hire somebody with all

the right traits and none of the

531

:

skills, they will ramp so slowly that

they will likely get discouraged and

532

:

give up before they have success.

533

:

If I get somebody with the right traits

and at least 3 skills, they'll ramp

534

:

quickly enough to have that motivation,

that desire to keep going, and will

535

:

be set up for success within the org.

536

:

Justin Norris: I like the division

between traits and skills.

537

:

Skills obviously are

things that are learned.

538

:

Nobody, comes into the

world with those skills.

539

:

In terms of traits, do you think that

people are kind of born with them or

540

:

are those things as well, refined and,

learned over time, in your opinion?

541

:

In other words, are great

sellers born or made?

542

:

Kyle Asay: Great sellers

are definitely made.

543

:

I think there's some element of

traits that's DNA related, but I

544

:

think a lot of people, I have talked

to people that have incredible grit.

545

:

that have come from, very

privileged backgrounds and

546

:

very difficult backgrounds.

547

:

I've seen people from all situations

that exhibit incredible traits and a

548

:

lot of it is from the circumstances

that they fought through with

549

:

things that they learned, right?

550

:

And so I'm not a biologist, I'm not

an expert in that area, but for the

551

:

question, are great sellers born or made?

552

:

I think they're made.

553

:

Because a lot of the, traits are

things that can be developed.

554

:

And a lot of the skills are

things that can be learned.

555

:

And I have seen some reps

that day one, when I met them,

556

:

I was like, there's no way.

557

:

And then a year later, they're crushing

it because they wanted to work that

558

:

hard and they wanted to get better.

559

:

And they completely changed their skills.

560

:

I recently had, a rep where the

feedback to me was, Hey, that this

561

:

person doesn't interview well.

562

:

they've interviewed before and

they're just really poor at it.

563

:

And then they interviewed and they did

great because they had worked, they

564

:

gotten that feedback and they worked

so hard to prove us wrong in that area.

565

:

And it's a great example of someone that

probably wasn't born to be a natural

566

:

salesperson or natural interviewer,

but now I'm betting on them to be

567

:

a top performer in my org because

of how gritty they were to go push

568

:

through those areas and get better.

569

:

Justin Norris: That's awesome.

570

:

thinking about top performers.

571

:

I don't know, but I imagine when you

were in IC, there were maybe times

572

:

where, you saw a shortcut, you know,

in the process, or you saw a way of

573

:

getting the result that you wanted that

wasn't, standard operating procedure.

574

:

And observed as a common

trait of great sellers.

575

:

Like they'll just, you know, we had a.

576

:

I work with BDR's all the time.

577

:

We had a BDR and she was showing

us something she was doing and

578

:

she's like, yeah, I just, you

know, I delete the subject line.

579

:

I use this because I find it doesn't work.

580

:

Like they just instinctively will,

correct for things that aren't working.

581

:

And that's really valuable.

582

:

At the same time, you want people

to kind of follow a process.

583

:

how do you, a, do you observe

the same dynamic, I guess?

584

:

And, and B, how do you sort of use the

energies of those people appropriately

585

:

that are kind of a little bit maverick,

but often with a positive result?

586

:

Kyle Asay: Yeah, I'm, uh, I'm really

big on the philosophy of flexible

587

:

process or frameworks of a process.

588

:

It's really just words and how

you define them technically.

589

:

but the, prevailing philosophy on

it is great reps will adapt process.

590

:

To best meet customers where they are, to

best meet a territory where it is, to best

591

:

map to their, their current circumstance.

592

:

As an IC myself, I had this turning

moment when I was so focused on

593

:

memorizing the sales process and being

rigid with it and it not working,

594

:

to paying attention to where did

the buyer disengage in this process?

595

:

Okay, how can I tweak the process

based on where the buyer is today?

596

:

Because not every buyer

is at the same stage.

597

:

And my career took off from that point.

598

:

So when I'm teaching sellers today,

a great example, again, is this new

599

:

discovery deck we're using when reps

like, Oh, these slides in an order,

600

:

these questions, I got to be free.

601

:

I got to be flexible.

602

:

Like I agree.

603

:

I want you to be free.

604

:

I want you to be flexible.

605

:

I want you to change

the order of the slides.

606

:

I want you to change the questions.

607

:

But you can't make the process flexible

until you have mastered the process.

608

:

And so if I have reps that are skipping

through the process because they

609

:

don't understand it, that concerns me.

610

:

Because they're probably finding shortcuts

that are not going to consistently work.

611

:

If I have sellers that understand the

process so well that they're adapting

612

:

it, Based on the campaign, based on the

buyer, based on the deal, that to me

613

:

is as close to sales perfection as you

can get, because the foundation is good

614

:

because the process is good, but we're

recognizing that every deal has nuance.

615

:

Every deal has changes, but reps, before

you want to go try to have nuance.

616

:

Get good at the foundation,

understand the foundation.

617

:

Otherwise, you're just making stuff up

and that's not gonna work very well.

618

:

Justin Norris: So once you know

the rules, you can break the rules.

619

:

In other words, is what I'm

620

:

Kyle Asay: bend,

621

:

I'm gonna go

622

:

with bend.

623

:

Justin Norris: You can flex, you

624

:

can

625

:

Kyle Asay: Yeah.

626

:

you and, and you should,

627

:

right?

628

:

you should flex things because if you're

in complex sales by nature of the job.

629

:

Scripts don't work, Like in some

transactional sales, sure, a script works.

630

:

Go master the script, master the

intonation, master the body language,

631

:

but in complex sales, scripts don't work.

632

:

But if you're just trying to wing it,

and you don't have a strong foundation

633

:

of outcomes to drive and how to

drive them to work off of, You're

634

:

really going to struggle creating

sustainable, consistent success.

635

:

Justin Norris: I alluded in the intro

a little bit to the challenge and the

636

:

pressure of being the sales leader and

I truly believe that I'm in forecast

637

:

pipe review meetings where there's good

weeks There's bad weeks and the sales

638

:

leaders got to step up and speak to it.

639

:

That's a lot of pressure.

640

:

Psychologically It's a kind of heavy

weight maybe to carry all the time.

641

:

How do you?

642

:

Think about that.

643

:

How do you deal with it?

644

:

Is it just something you get used to?

645

:

Kyle Asay: I don't know

that you get used to it.

646

:

I think you learn to adapt and,

improve your mindset towards it.

647

:

I've definitely had periods

of pretty significant struggle

648

:

with anxiety and stress from it.

649

:

But, the book that I read that

I'm sure many have read the

650

:

subtle art of not giving enough.

651

:

changed my perspective in a really

positive way to good problems to have.

652

:

And so when I start to feel this

anxiety and stress about these numbers,

653

:

I'm like, okay, Kyle, but look at

the problems you get to solve today.

654

:

And think about how many people

would love to have the opportunity

655

:

to solve these problems.

656

:

And then I realized how lucky and

fortunate I am to get a play business

657

:

in this capacity and have a team that

I enjoy working with, with a great

658

:

company, with a great executive team.

659

:

So yeah, there's lots of pressure.

660

:

But for me personally, I would much

rather have the problem of pressure

661

:

and stress tied to hitting challenging

targets than the pressure of not being

662

:

challenged in a job or the the boredom

of not being challenged in a job or

663

:

people that right now are struggling

to find work in a bad economy.

664

:

That's stressful.

665

:

That's way stressful, right?

666

:

And so whenever I start to

feel that overwhelmed feeling.

667

:

I take a big step back, I look

at it, and I put my stresses

668

:

and problems into perspective.

669

:

And when I zoom out, my problems and

stresses are pretty minuscule compared

670

:

to what many people are facing.

671

:

And I consider myself very fortunate to

have the problems that I do have to solve.

672

:

And when that mindset flips,

the mood flips, the anxiety

673

:

slips away a little bit.

674

:

And this is a constant

remembrance of that.

675

:

I also like to remind my team,

like we talk about goals, we have

676

:

accountability on goals, but at the

end of the day, it's just a job.

677

:

It's how we provide a

living for our families.

678

:

Uh, we like our jobs.

679

:

We want to perform well, but the worst

case scenario professionally is not

680

:

necessarily a worst case scenario of life.

681

:

We're going to succeed.

682

:

We're going to fail at different

times, but it's just a job.

683

:

We're lucky at the problems that we

have to solve and let's do the best

684

:

we can together and try to have a

little bit of fun along the way.

685

:

And that mindset has served me quite

well as I've moved into technically more

686

:

stressful jobs in my career while still

maintaining somewhat of an even keel.

687

:

Justin Norris: That's a

really healthy point of view.

688

:

you put out a, uh, I thought it was

really funny video, satire of a day in

689

:

the life of a sales leader, but I'm,

curious, maybe there's some similarities,

690

:

maybe not, but what is, the real

day in the life look like for you?

691

:

Like, how do you organize your time and

what are the things you, you focus on?

692

:

Kyle Asay: Yeah, so a lot of meetings.

693

:

If you want to be a leader

in sales, especially the

694

:

second line, third line level.

695

:

It's a lot of meetings.

696

:

So I'm meeting with my leadership team

to understand the health of their team.

697

:

We're talking about their people.

698

:

We're talking about developments.

699

:

We're talking about their quota

coverage, talking about numbers.

700

:

A lot of meetings with the

cross functional leaders.

701

:

So making sure we have alignment with

marketing enablement with rev ops.

702

:

So a lot of making sure that the goals

that we're setting are complementary

703

:

to each other and that we're rowing

the same direction, not different

704

:

directions, a lot of interviews.

705

:

So I spent a lot of time interviewing

candidates, a lot of time recruiting, but

706

:

really most of my days are filled, With

nearly back to back meetings across the

707

:

day and then I do the rest of my work

Uh when i'm not in meetings all day and

708

:

that's just catching up on administrative

stuff like making sure that territory

709

:

assignments are getting done Making

sure that compensation plans are all set

710

:

correctly making sure that territories are

allocated to the right There's all sorts

711

:

of things that go into that above and

beyond just the meetings but yeah a day

712

:

in the life of a vps sales is uh, Probably

not as glamorous as many people might

713

:

think it looks like it's a lot of zoom

714

:

Justin Norris: You

manage both BDRs and AEs.

715

:

there are full cycle AEs.

716

:

There are ways of dividing up the role.

717

:

How do you think about running a

motion across both those types of

718

:

sellers and how to work with them

together in the most effective way?

719

:

Kyle Asay: That is the right now big

question because I'm new to this world.

720

:

This is my first time leading an SDR org.

721

:

So my first priority as I came into

LaunchDarkly was to go hire somebody

722

:

to help me build out that org.

723

:

I found a great leader that has run

global SDRs before that reports to me

724

:

and is helping us help us structure that.

725

:

it's interesting because the SDR to

AE conflict is often AEs saying well

726

:

the meetings I'm getting aren't good.

727

:

So wasting my time with the SGR

saying, accept my opportunity.

728

:

I hit my numbers and I get to

kind of sit in between the two.

729

:

And I can have the mindset of, okay,

well, the STRs, I don't, want an org

730

:

where I'm going and telling the CFO,

Oh, we generated 15 million a pipeline.

731

:

And then he asks, well, how much closed?

732

:

And I kind of whispered a really small

number and then kind of duck away.

733

:

I want to have an org

that produces revenue.

734

:

So part of that is a tight alignment

for what good looks like, but it's

735

:

also recognizing that when an STR is

reaching out to an enterprise account,

736

:

The first person we get a meeting

with is probably not going to be the

737

:

end decision maker for a purchase.

738

:

Part of the job of the AE is to go

hold those meetings and get a point of

739

:

view for the account that we could then

use to go get hired in the account.

740

:

And so I'm really trying to

find the right rhythm for that.

741

:

How do we incentivize the right

behavior where AEs and SGRs

742

:

actually work together on accounts?

743

:

Rather than an AE delegating

accounts, they don't want to

744

:

call themselves to the SDR.

745

:

And then how do we make sure that we

look at the initial STR set and the

746

:

account as the start to a broader

conversation, not a pass fail, is this

747

:

the champion to drive forward a purchase

of our software for a six or seven

748

:

figures within the enterprise account?

749

:

the other aspect to it, I think besides

the revenue production piece is I really

750

:

want the STR function to become the

main place I hire talent out of for AEs.

751

:

And so a big part of that is building

out a sales readiness program where

752

:

the SDR has come to my team, being the

best at pipeline generation, the entire

753

:

business, they've mastered that, but also

being quite proficient with discovery.

754

:

I don't need much more than that to

begin with, but I do want to close

755

:

the gap from them just being good at

PG, not knowing discovery to day one,

756

:

they can generate quality pipeline.

757

:

And they can run quality discovery

and then loop in ecosystem to help

758

:

support them the rest of the way.

759

:

So a lot to figure out as I

760

:

move into this world.

761

:

but, it's fun having the different

perspectives of an AE leader as well

762

:

as an SDR leader, as we think about

targets, incentives, how we hire,

763

:

how we retain, all those aspects.

764

:

Justin Norris: think about very similar

problems in my role, interestingly

765

:

enough, and like finding that.

766

:

Right place to put the dial where

like, you don't want AEs wasting their

767

:

time, but you also want to, one of my

coworkers has a good example of like

768

:

AEs who just want to like jump up

and like hover above the rim of the

769

:

basketball net and just wait for the

ball to land there so they can, stuff it

770

:

into the net and claim all the credit.

771

:

how do you think about calibrating

the qualification criteria of what

772

:

makes it through that gate to an AE?

773

:

So it's neither too

stringent nor too loose.

774

:

Kyle Asay: Right now we just have

a sales accepted opportunities,

775

:

which is pretty early in the stage.

776

:

the benefit to that is it's more

controllable for the STR function.

777

:

I don't like having comp plans and

targets with too much of it being

778

:

left up to another org to execute.

779

:

the downside to that is it can

drive artificial behavior of just

780

:

trying to land meetings that are

just good enough to be qualified.

781

:

And so really it requires a

constant feedback loop from,

782

:

Hey, we're hitting the targets.

783

:

But for the stakeholders that might

work to force, does our hitting targets

784

:

lead to meaningful outcomes for you?

785

:

If not, then we need to continue to

qualify how we structure either the

786

:

target or the definitions of the target.

787

:

Or our approach all together maybe in

a future podcast, I'll be able to roll

788

:

out the answer to SDR compensation

and modeling to align incentives.

789

:

Perfectly.

790

:

I don't have that answer today.

791

:

I have some opinions on it.

792

:

Like, I'm opposed to having a heavy

compensation model tied to quota,

793

:

closed because it's too lagging

and too out of control for the SDR.

794

:

I've also, though, seen downfalls to

having it being too premature in the

795

:

sales cycle because it leads to a

lot of production, but not revenue.

796

:

Because at the end of the day

right now, every business is

797

:

looking at these different

functions, especially in revenue.

798

:

And the question isn't, how

much pipeline do they generate?

799

:

Or how many SQOs do they generate?

800

:

But it's, what's the payback period?

801

:

What is the cost of the org compared

to what is the production of the org?

802

:

And so I really need to make sure that

as we're building out the infrastructure,

803

:

the team, the approach of the team is

with revenue in mind and with development

804

:

in mind, because if I can show the

organization of business, we're bringing

805

:

revenue to the table, at least enough

to support the growth of the org and

806

:

we're fostering the next generation

of great sellers at launch darkly.

807

:

I will feel fantastic

about the SDR function.

808

:

Justin Norris: when we think

about the role of the A.

809

:

E.

810

:

In terms of having ownership of the

full cycle, let's say alongside the BDR.

811

:

There's kind of two points

of view I've observed.

812

:

Like I've had Brian Lamont on the

podcast before he's a great AE and

813

:

his point of view was, I always want

to have control over my own destiny.

814

:

So I'm always going to do, some level

of, of outbound and pipe generation

815

:

myself, there's an opposing point

of view I've seen expressed where

816

:

it's like, that is, you know, a

waste of time of like a great ease.

817

:

They should just be focused on closing.

818

:

and so there's that duality.

819

:

How do you think about this?

820

:

Kyle Asay: I definitely align

more with my friend Brian on that.

821

:

great AEs, like the top 1%, will

find a way to succeed against their

822

:

number, with or without any support,

from inbound, partner, CES, whatever.

823

:

I, I don't know though that it's possible

to build a decent sized sales org.

824

:

In a complex environment where the AEs

are solely responsible for their pipeline.

825

:

And so I love a company where

they recognize that, yeah, AEs

826

:

need to generate pipeline, but

we also need to support them.

827

:

And so I love a mix.

828

:

the ratios can vary.

829

:

but I am generally, if you can tell

me, hey, I can get your AEs 30 to

830

:

40 percent of the way to their quota

between marketing, CS, partners, and SDR.

831

:

And then we need AEs to go self

source that remaining 40 to 60%.

832

:

I'm pretty comfortable with that because

what I found is AE source pipeline

833

:

is generally higher quality than SDR

source pipeline, which makes sense.

834

:

They're more senior reps.

835

:

They better understand the territory.

836

:

They better understand the product.

837

:

That's just the reality

of experience in sales.

838

:

So I already know that AE source

pipeline is going to be stronger

839

:

than some of the support.

840

:

Then inbound.

841

:

We don't always have control over that.

842

:

There's seasonality to that.

843

:

And if, inbound plummets, and

your quota attainment plummets to

844

:

the same degree, that's a problem

on how you control your destiny.

845

:

And so I love AEs that recognize

that, yeah, I would love

846

:

great support from inbound.

847

:

I would love great

support from CES and SDRs.

848

:

But if I don't get it, I'll

make up the difference.

849

:

and that's a big topic

right now at LaunchDarkly.

850

:

It's like, here's the support we get.

851

:

Here's the gap to close.

852

:

And here's what we have to

do as an AE org to get there.

853

:

And a lot of the AEs are leaning

into it and they're blowing out

854

:

those numbers they need to go get to.

855

:

And I can't wait to see the revenue

results as we improve support from CS,

856

:

as we improve support from SDR and they

maintain that focus on the pipeline.

857

:

Those are AEs that hit 200 percent

of quota, not just a hundred percent.

858

:

Justin Norris: It's a good place to be.

859

:

I think I know your answer to this

question probably, but, AI SDRs, you

860

:

know, you're going to replace your whole,

uh, SDR org with AI bots anytime soon.

861

:

What are you thinking?

862

:

Kyle Asay: I hope all

of our competitors do.

863

:

I hope they go all in on the

AISDR in all seriousness, I think

864

:

there are great tools being built.

865

:

The problem is anything

that can be scaled.

866

:

Saturates and anything that saturates,

even if it's really good is ignored.

867

:

And so when I look at the channels

that work for us right now in PG, our

868

:

best channels are the things that can

not be automated, can not be scaled.

869

:

And so when I hear AI SDR.

870

:

The goal is really personalized, really

value driven emails and messages at scale.

871

:

Well, when all of a sudden the

buyer has hundreds of emails

872

:

that are hyper personalized, very

valuable, very relevant, all of a

873

:

sudden, by default, none of them

are personalized, none of them are

874

:

valuable, and none of them are relevant.

875

:

And so I've seen a lot of the data

on it where people see a quick spike

876

:

as they uncover some of the low

hanging fruit, and then it decreases.

877

:

For me and my org, there are no

plans to replace SDRs with AI agents.

878

:

I'm really big on AI in sales.

879

:

I'm doing some work right now with

Clay around territory management and

880

:

my mind is blown at what I can uncover.

881

:

But all of this is to accelerate

what we do with sellers.

882

:

Not to replace.

883

:

So you'll hear me say often,

I don't believe in shortcuts.

884

:

I believe in accelerants.

885

:

I want to use AI to accelerate my SDRs,

accelerate my AEs, make us more efficient.

886

:

But the idea of replacing, maybe I'll be

burns, but I'm, I'm quite skeptical on

887

:

that, at least for the foreseeable future.

888

:

Justin Norris: No, I think you're right.

889

:

And I think, as an accelerant, as an aid.

890

:

As a way of automating, uh, work that

is repetitive, that can be automated.

891

:

as an assistant, I think that makes

total sense, but yeah, the, the

892

:

output that I've seen from evaluating

these tools, to fully, have a, AI

893

:

SDRs, I've not seen anything that

I'd want to expose to my audience.

894

:

let's think a little bit

about the relationship with,

895

:

sales ops or with rev ops.

896

:

We've alluded to it a few times.

897

:

I've had.

898

:

Cody Guymon on the show before.

899

:

I know you worked with him at Qualtrics.

900

:

He actually introduced us a great

revenue operator, really insightful guy.

901

:

How have you, not necessarily with

him, but just in general, how have

902

:

you thought about an experience,

this relationship with RebOps before?

903

:

Sometimes there can be tension,

RebOps and sales leadership.

904

:

Sometimes it can be a great partnership.

905

:

What's your experience been like overall?

906

:

Kyle Asay: it's one of the reasons

why I joined LongStar Arcly,

907

:

because I interviewed with our

RevOps leader and I love the guy.

908

:

Like, cause I, I view RevOps as

being a mission critical partner.

909

:

I cannot make good decisions.

910

:

without great data, or I can't

form a good hypothesis, I

911

:

should say, without good data.

912

:

I cannot structure an org and scale

an org through territory, through

913

:

targets, without a great partnership.

914

:

And so I view RevOps as being, the most

critical partner for what I do, because

915

:

they helped me work better with marketing.

916

:

They helped me work

better with enablement.

917

:

They helped me work better with

every function that partners with

918

:

sales and without strong rev ops, all

those things fall apart and we're no

919

:

longer rowing in the right direction.

920

:

I always joke that in a different

universe, there's another Kyle

921

:

that's just a little bit smarter

than this version of Kyle.

922

:

And he's our RevOps leader.

923

:

He's not in the sales.

924

:

He's in a RevOps.

925

:

I love the stuff.

926

:

And current, if you're listening

to this, uh, you know that I

927

:

love working with your team.

928

:

Y'all are, y'all are a highlight for me.

929

:

Justin Norris: So there's probably some

rev ops folks listening to this right

930

:

now that are thinking like, gosh, I

wish that I could have that sort of

931

:

relationship with my, sales leader.

932

:

And, obviously there's, the sales

leader themselves has a component part

933

:

to play in that from the rev ops side,

what would your advice be, like if

934

:

you were designing your perfect rev

ops partner, what would What are the

935

:

things that they should do to provide

maximum value to you as a sales leader?

936

:

Kyle Asay: transparency is big.

937

:

Like, especially when you come

down to things like target setting.

938

:

It's like, hey, when you share

targets with me, give me the

939

:

assumptions you're making.

940

:

Help me understand the

projections you're making.

941

:

be human about it.

942

:

Let's talk through things.

943

:

Like, it's always nice when,

uh, when you're talking about

944

:

quotas and you're understanding.

945

:

You're, you're balancing

the needs of the business.

946

:

You're balancing what morale will happen.

947

:

With comp plan stuff, it's similar,

because as a senior sales leader, you

948

:

don't want to over index to sales, right?

949

:

You do want to run a healthy sales

work to support a growing company,

950

:

but you also want to put out a plan

where your people can have tons of

951

:

success and make a lot of money.

952

:

And so having that transparency

aspect around target setting is huge.

953

:

Uh, because oftentimes I've

seen RebOps teams make decisions

954

:

off of bad assumptions.

955

:

And we didn't hear about the assumptions

they made until it was already ruled

956

:

out and a lot of damage was done.

957

:

Had they shared assumptions up front

that went into the model, we could have

958

:

challenged it in that moment, and we

could have come to a better conclusion.

959

:

And so view it as a true partnership, not

as like this little curtain between the

960

:

two where we have to kind of guard things.

961

:

Because not all sales leaders are just

going to push for the lowest quota.

962

:

Not all sales are going to go push

for the highest possible comp rates.

963

:

We understand the balance to the

business, but if you're not transparent

964

:

with everything going into the models,

you're going to miss out on valuable

965

:

insight from the sales side that if

you understood would probably change

966

:

those models and those projections.

967

:

So that's the biggest piece.

968

:

Be a partner, not a

policymaker and an enforcer.

969

:

Justin Norris: Good advice Maybe just

in closing last question we have time

970

:

for you've Built a really interesting

side hustle with sales introverts.

971

:

a huge audience for yourself.

972

:

You have 65, 000 followers on LinkedIn.

973

:

You know, I see you all the time there.

974

:

You get lots of engagement

in what you're doing.

975

:

A lot of positive feedback.

976

:

It looks like, just some lessons learned

building a side hustle, doing it myself.

977

:

I know it's hard.

978

:

You also have a family, you have a

lot of responsibility at your day job.

979

:

How do you, figure that out?

980

:

Kyle Asay: Yeah, my advice that

also goes to sales leadership too.

981

:

It's I, I focus on what I

am uniquely able to do and I

982

:

partner with others for the rest.

983

:

And so with my, my business, I

have a great partner that does

984

:

website stuff, automations.

985

:

Product design, all sorts of things.

986

:

the only things that I have to

worry about are content creation.

987

:

And that's easy, because all I'm doing

is taking what I'm doing every day

988

:

at my job, and then repurposing it

to be relevant to a larger audience,

989

:

and not just a little universe.

990

:

that I live in, uh, other lessons

that I've learned is not all the

991

:

feedback I get is always positive.

992

:

It doesn't happen often, but

sometimes I get very angry messages

993

:

from strangers, uh, and I don't

understand it, but it's just part

994

:

of when you put yourself out there.

995

:

And so I've had to learn

to not worry about it.

996

:

I'm trying to mature to the point where

when somebody is a jerk like that,

997

:

they just ignore and not feel the need

to respond and I'm getting better.

998

:

But my encouragement to people

is, The benefits to sharing what

999

:

you've learned far outweigh the

negatives that might come from it.

:

00:49:50,924 --> 00:49:52,594

So yeah, I think those are

really the main two things.

:

00:49:52,594 --> 00:49:55,864

I've had to learn what do I have

to uniquely do, how do I get help

:

00:49:55,864 --> 00:49:57,844

for the rest so I can scale myself.

:

00:49:58,284 --> 00:50:02,223

And then, you're going to do things

that get positive feedback, you're

:

00:50:02,263 --> 00:50:04,193

also going to get negative feedback.

:

00:50:04,483 --> 00:50:05,143

Don't sweat it.

:

00:50:05,795 --> 00:50:07,955

things with people that you

get positive feedback from.

:

00:50:08,505 --> 00:50:10,955

Justin Norris: I'll have to say when

I was researching this episode, I

:

00:50:11,035 --> 00:50:14,305

think I came across some Reddit thread

where somebody was saying something,

:

00:50:14,315 --> 00:50:15,575

you know, mildly critical of you.

:

00:50:15,575 --> 00:50:17,805

And you actually jumped into

that thread, responded to them.

:

00:50:17,805 --> 00:50:18,645

And they're like, Oh, wow.

:

00:50:18,645 --> 00:50:22,268

Like my point of view about you

has changed as a result of this.

:

00:50:22,268 --> 00:50:25,308

So I think that was a masterclass

of, hugging your haters

:

00:50:25,348 --> 00:50:27,228

and turning them into fans.

:

00:50:27,608 --> 00:50:28,628

I thought that was really well done.

:

00:50:29,215 --> 00:50:30,435

Kyle Asay: that guy was rational.

:

00:50:31,045 --> 00:50:31,395

A lot of

:

00:50:31,625 --> 00:50:33,405

Justin Norris: everybody

is rational out there.

:

00:50:33,405 --> 00:50:34,355

I understand that too.

:

00:50:34,962 --> 00:50:36,552

really appreciate you being on the show.

:

00:50:36,652 --> 00:50:38,392

Super insightful, super useful.

:

00:50:38,392 --> 00:50:41,564

If people want to find you,

they can look you up on LinkedIn

:

00:50:41,574 --> 00:50:43,104

or go to sales introverts.

:

00:50:43,704 --> 00:50:47,574

com tons of great resources

there, but yeah, thank you so

:

00:50:47,574 --> 00:50:48,934

much for chatting with us today.

:

00:50:49,571 --> 00:50:50,081

Kyle Asay: a pleasure.

:

00:50:50,081 --> 00:50:52,411

Thank you for coming prepared

with so many awesome questions.

:

00:50:52,411 --> 00:50:53,431

I really enjoyed the conversation.

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