Transcripts
Foreign.
Speaker B:Welcome to another episode of Design and the Influence where I am your host, Alex Osenenko.
Speaker B:I work for Arc it.
Speaker B:We do good work for the AAC space.
Speaker B:We take care of people's it, but we also do a lot of education and Q&As and all kinds of stuff.
Speaker B:Here with me today, to answer a burning question that all probably BIM managers or on call BIM managers get a lot and we kind of demystify it, break it down and see what this really means and how this could be worked in.
Speaker B:The question is, can you fix my Revit template?
Speaker B:And if you can fix it, can you fix it fast, please?
Speaker B:Pretty please?
Speaker B:Your answer, ladies?
Speaker C:No.
Speaker B:Well, there you have it.
Speaker B:Thanks for watching.
Speaker A:Thanks are on.
Speaker B:All right, let's dig in.
Speaker B:So let me introduce my guests first of all.
Speaker B:So those of you who've seen our previous episode already mesmerized by the current cast.
Speaker B:You know, it was me and Willard doing archicad and now we're in different realm in Revit Autodesk.
Speaker B:And here with me, I have Megan and Liz with Aurora Bim.
Speaker B:Say hi.
Speaker C:Hi.
Speaker C:Great to be back.
Speaker C:Yes, thanks for having us again.
Speaker B:Yep, the ladies do a lot of work to look this good, but we also have brains.
Speaker B:So let's explore that area.
Speaker B:Let's start with this.
Speaker B:What is Revit template?
Speaker B:Let's get into Identify the Beast, Start.
Speaker C:Making what should go first?
Speaker C:Yeah, a Revit template is essentially a file.
Speaker C:And I have a couple opinions on whether it should be a full blown Revit template, which is an RTE file, or whether it should just be a working project file that you just copy and use for new projects.
Speaker C:The template is meant to expedite your process as you work through each of your projects.
Speaker C:And templates work the best when they are applied to projects of a similar nature.
Speaker C:So in the template, it has many, many components, and each of those is tailored specifically to the project type that you're working on.
Speaker C:So anything from line weights, line styles, line patterns, hatch patterns, filled regions, families that are loaded into the template, object styles, the list goes on and on and on.
Speaker C:And the template is really dialed in as you work on projects and as you test it in that environment.
Speaker C:So we like to say it's kind of a work in progress always, because you should actually always be updating your template and making sure that it's serving that purpose.
Speaker C:So long.
Speaker C:Short answer.
Speaker C:It's meant to help you move through projects quicker and have a head start in the beginning.
Speaker A:And just to add into that, it's not like Megan says, not one.
Speaker A:And done so as you.
Speaker A:Even if we were to make the perfect template today, next week it might change.
Speaker A:Either revit upgrades or you have a new type of project where you find that this specific schedule doesn't work as well as you wanted.
Speaker A:So you update it.
Speaker A:And the key is to then remember to go back and do the same thing in your template file so that the next project you have the same tools and magic solutions.
Speaker B:Let me ask you a question from a perspective of a business owner that runs an architecture firm or engineering firm, right?
Speaker B:And let's say we do have, we specialize in one type of structure, right?
Speaker B:Let's say it's for simplicity's sake.
Speaker B:Adu, something like that, right.
Speaker B:You know, you brought up a lot of good points.
Speaker B:It sounds like pretty complicated to maintain your template overall.
Speaker B:Do you like how much time it actually saves to have a properly put together template?
Speaker B:For my adu part of my business, like give me a percentage, give me a number.
Speaker B:Like maybe, right, that you've seen best companies.
Speaker B:How much time will I save having a template versus having full proper template versus starting from scratch on each one?
Speaker A:Well, I like, sorry, Megan, I don't have a number.
Speaker A:Maybe Megan has a number.
Speaker A:But what I would say is that last week we talked about how the start of a project is a lot heavier and costs more and this is a place where you can save a lot, save time and energy because you put all that effort into making a template and then you don't have to redo that effort again.
Speaker A:You just pick it up and start.
Speaker A:So it can get you 25% of the way there, maybe even 50%.
Speaker A:The design isn't there, but the setup, the views, the sheets, the schedules, if you just start working, will start populating with the information you need.
Speaker A:Go ahead, Megan.
Speaker C:I mean, I would even say that the, the time saved is even higher, like over 50%.
Speaker C:Because if you think about moving through a project and if you don't have your families set up, so you've got to go find those, you've got to load them in, you got to get the line weights looking the way you want them to look, even annotation symbols or detailing the items that you need to create your details, all of that, if you don't have that set up from the get go, you've got to do that as you're working on your projects.
Speaker C:You're literally creating content as you go.
Speaker C:And that takes two times even, I mean, even more time than it would if you already had that content created.
Speaker C:So a template is a huge key piece.
Speaker C:And yes, Autodesk has out of the box families and annotations and things like that, but the kit that they, that they basically have shared with their, the industry is, is not complete by any means.
Speaker C:And not to say that they should be the ones that are doing that.
Speaker C:Everyone has an idea of how they want their content to look.
Speaker C:And there's manufacturers out there creating content, you know, if they want you to specify a specific product in your drawings and it's in their best interest to give you the Revit family in order to do that quickly and you can get it to look exactly like they want it to look.
Speaker C:So it's definitely, it's a huge time saver.
Speaker C:If you get a dialed in template and you're doing the same project on repeat, I'd say It's up to 75, 80% time savings in my mind.
Speaker A:That's true.
Speaker A:And also the aspect that it's hard to measure, which is reduction of frustration as you work, you know, getting that dialogue box of.
Speaker A:There are no wall tags loaded in this project.
Speaker A:Where do I find a wall tag?
Speaker A:What does our wall tag look like?
Speaker A:Do we need to have a MIDI meeting about wall tag graphics work?
Speaker B:So it's almost like a difference between, you know, termites being in your walls and then you having to worry about them all the time.
Speaker B:Or never even thinking about termites because you don't have them.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker B:You just do about, go about your work, not worry about stuff.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker C:Kind of like having a toolbox, I would say of all the tools that you need to build the thing you want to build, versus having to go out to the store and get all these tools or the lumberyard or wherever you've got it all there at your house and you can just build the thing you want to build.
Speaker C:That's.
Speaker C:I just came up with that analogy.
Speaker B:That'S better than termites.
Speaker B:We'll have to use that one.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's very cool.
Speaker B:So, you know, like you have a tool shed with everything you need from a 3D printer to, you know, every size wrench.
Speaker B:Then you have a much, you know, easier time, you know, building something than having to run for every single.
Speaker B:Oh, you need a step drill bit.
Speaker B:Oh, I need this, I need that.
Speaker B:I get it.
Speaker B:It makes sense.
Speaker B:So why can't you fix it?
Speaker C:Well, it means you got to go to a bunch of different stores.
Speaker C:We need to know what stores you want us to visit.
Speaker C:I'm going to continue this analogy.
Speaker B:Go until it Breaks.
Speaker C:We need to know what your favorite tools you might have a favorite hammer or a favorite wrench.
Speaker C:And you know, you might live in a certain climate where you need certain tools or certain finishes on your wood.
Speaker C:Yeah, all of those things.
Speaker A:You say you like this hammer, but when you start using it, you realize you don't actually like this hammer and you need to find a new one.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So once you get into the shed, the tool shed, you can kind of estimate and see.
Speaker B:Okay, you know, here's the kind of work I need to do to help you build this template out versus well, what do others promise?
Speaker B:Because we kind of talked pre show and before and you said, hey, some BIM managers, consultants promise to fix the templates.
Speaker B:What is wrong with that?
Speaker B:Where are they short?
Speaker C:Yeah, they're kind of proposing that they.
Speaker C:I'm going to keep going with the tool shed.
Speaker C:That they can just plop a tool shed onto your property and it's going to have everything that you need.
Speaker C:That's what they're promising.
Speaker C:And you can't actually fulfill that promise without going through and building something with you and testing that on the things that you want to build because it's going to change.
Speaker C:You're going to need to go to the store a couple times.
Speaker C:You can't have everything you need in that shed.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker B:Gotcha.
Speaker B:So, yeah.
Speaker A:And I'd also say like with Revit, anyone who's used Revit at for any length of time knows there's like six different ways to do everything in Revit and they are good or bad depending on what your outcome is and your workflows and who's doing it.
Speaker A:And so if the tools that are in this ready made tool shed are for a specific workflow, but this particular client, our client doesn't like to work that way or doesn't find value in working that way, then half the tools are useless.
Speaker B:Yeah, let's do a little bit deeper, dive into the template itself.
Speaker B:Megan, you teach college courses on bim, right.
Speaker B:And you said there are some things that people don't even learn in school that will help them better understand the purpose of the template and utilization and their ability to make them work for them.
Speaker B:So why don't you tell us the secret?
Speaker C:Yeah, the secret.
Speaker C:Well, what I'm finding, what we're finding as we are out working with clients and in the industry is that the.
Speaker B:Way.
Speaker C:In school the focus is on how to build the 3D model and it's not in how to display it.
Speaker C:And that is the issue.
Speaker C:So the way That I teach my classes is the modeling.
Speaker C:I kind of just quickly show them how to do it.
Speaker C:These students have been in Minecraft and video games for years.
Speaker C:Working in a 3D environment is not the hard part for them.
Speaker C:Knowing how to, like, if I model the wall, how do I control all the lines that are associated with that wall?
Speaker C:Whether they're in projection being cut, if they're going to be seen in plan, if they're going to be hidden underneath of a.
Speaker C:Of a floor, how do I control what that line looks like?
Speaker C:That is where the training starts, basically, in my opinion.
Speaker C:Because the modeling side, the building of the model.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:There's ways that you can do it to help you basically set yourself up for success later when it changes.
Speaker C:That's a big piece of the modeling part that I do touch on.
Speaker C:But then how do you actually get that model to display in the 2D drawings that are still the contract documents?
Speaker C:That's the hard part.
Speaker C:We are not in the world yet where you can hand someone a model and say, build this.
Speaker C:The 2D drawings are still the contract documents that everyone is looking at.
Speaker C:And the model is secondary, which is tricky because you have to have a really, you know, not really good, but you have to have a decent model to create the drawings that we're used to seeing out of AutoCAD.
Speaker C:And it's controlling how each one of the individual elements looks and knowing how to do that.
Speaker C:And there's many, many different, many, many different places where you can change the way something looks.
Speaker C:Some places will set you up for success in the whole project.
Speaker C:Some places are just one and done.
Speaker C:So you override a line in a view, it's only going to be in that view.
Speaker C:And then if you create another view and you want that line to look the same in there, you got to do it again.
Speaker C:So there's global settings versus localized settings versus like, I'm on a deadline.
Speaker C:I just need this line to look this way.
Speaker C:And I'm just going to change this one thing.
Speaker C:And it's knowing the difference between those things and where to use what that I really focus on in my classes.
Speaker B:Liz, you got anything here?
Speaker A:I would say that I totally agree.
Speaker A:I mean, what we want is our angle with the templates we help people create is that there really aren't any tweaks or duct tape solutions that are needed, that you just produce a floor plan and add your view template on top of it and looks great or is mostly great and you just can work.
Speaker A:You don't have to spend tons of time futzing around with individual lines or views or where if you do, you call us up and you say, hey, this one line just always looks wrong.
Speaker A:Can you fix it in a good way?
Speaker A:And then that's where that like continual updating of the template comes, comes into play.
Speaker A:Is also I think having that mindset as you're working, and that's what we try to encourage our, our clients to have, is that we're gonna help you, we're gonna set you up, but this is a two way street.
Speaker A:So when stuff doesn't work, you come back to us and we can work together and we can even teach them where to go in the template and update and play around.
Speaker A:We don't need to be the crutch forever.
Speaker A:We really want to empower people to continue building their template as they go forward.
Speaker B:You can fix or help fix the template that you've co created.
Speaker C:I wouldn't say it's even fixed.
Speaker C:It's more like maintain.
Speaker C:Maintain.
Speaker A:Yeah, polish.
Speaker B:Gotcha.
Speaker B:What about content?
Speaker B:And you said content can be a template killer.
Speaker B:I don't really.
Speaker B:Content to me is what's inside.
Speaker B:How could it be a killer?
Speaker A:So there's revit kind of organizes itself in two ways.
Speaker A:With content, there's content that has to live inside of a revit file.
Speaker A:So walls and floors and ceilings and with content catalog now you can actually extract items and put them into other projects.
Speaker A:But I mean those are what they call system families.
Speaker A:So they have to live in, in the template, they have to be there.
Speaker A:And then you have non system families which are going to be things that can live their own life.
Speaker A:So furniture and casework and Entourage and all other kinds of things that you would put in your, in your model.
Speaker A:And those are where Megan mentioned that a lot of manufacturers make their stuff so you can go and buy or not even buy, but get for free windows and doors and furniture and plumbing and all kinds of things from manufacturers which look beautiful, they're beautifully modeled, but they are over modeled for what we're doing.
Speaker A:Or they come in with 26 different, very highly detailed materials or different line styles or subcategories in Czech instead of English or a million other things that you just don't need.
Speaker A:And that's where I would say that content can kill your template because if you start loading in these little bits and pieces, putting in these tools as way, if we're going back to the tool shed, some of these tools actually have, let's say rust on them.
Speaker A:If we're going with this or they bring in terms and you don't know it until you bring it in and it just spreads all over everything and you spend time trying to pull.
Speaker A:Where did this line style come from?
Speaker A:Where did that text come from?
Speaker A:So I would say that a key component of this whole process is not only teaching a client how to update their own template, but how to be very protective of the content that they bring into their projects and that they bring into their templates and documenting very clearly that this is what we do, this is how we clean it up.
Speaker A:Here's some tools to clean up things.
Speaker A:And if you really, really, really want to bring it in, just know what you're doing when you bring it in.
Speaker C:Yeah, and I would just add, Liz, I agree with all of that, and I'd say to kind of make it a little bit more like how you would actually feel, the ramifications of this is as a user, when you're in a revit file that has all this stuff brought in and it has taken over, your file is you now go to draw a line.
Speaker C:And like Liz said, it's like, where did all these line cells come from?
Speaker C:And someone that's not familiar with what line they should be using now doesn't know what line they should choose to do the thing that they want to do.
Speaker C:So they're like, do I need to pick, you know, L1, or is it just pen one or.
Speaker C:And it's important that you're using the same ones because you need to be able to control those as a group if you need to.
Speaker C:The other places you'll see it is in import categories.
Speaker C:So a lot of families will contain cad.
Speaker C:And when you bring them in, you now have all of these different subcategories in your.
Speaker C:Your visibility graphics in every single view that you go into.
Speaker C:And you're like, where did all this cat come from?
Speaker C:And you don't know if you actually did have something from cad, which hopefully you don't in your file and you need to control it.
Speaker C:You've got to kind of sift through this, like, huge list now of CAD that is just sitting in your file, and you're not exactly sure where it is or what it came in with.
Speaker C:So it just makes the list of the things that you're working with in Revit long.
Speaker C:And it makes it hard to know what you're changing.
Speaker C:And if you don't have any of that in your template, it's very simple for users to go in and be like, okay, these are the things that I have to do the drawings for this building.
Speaker C:I don't have any other options that I have to think about and figure out, is that our standard or is that something that got brought in from something from a manufacturer?
Speaker C:Yeah, so that's.
Speaker C:That's how people will feel it.
Speaker B:Very good.
Speaker B:Very good.
Speaker B:That's actually very thoughtful element.
Speaker B:And so with.
Speaker B:With that said, do you, when.
Speaker B:When someone does ask you this question, can you fix my template?
Speaker B:I'm sure you follow up with a bunch of questions before you agree to anything, but what are some of the things?
Speaker B:What's the best way to work with folks like you, with Aurora Bim, for example, to make the most value out of your input for my firm.
Speaker C:So we usually do describe this to our clients.
Speaker C:When they ask us that, we answer in this way.
Speaker C:And it's just because it has been over and over the way that has been most successful.
Speaker C:And that is, we start with a few meetings where, you know, they kind of just share with us all of their frustrations.
Speaker C:Here's all the things that keep happening in our template, and we make a little list, and then the next step is actually to have us work alongside of them in a project.
Speaker C:So, you know, giving us, like a little piece of a floor plan to build and create with them.
Speaker C:Because then we are in their template.
Speaker C:We are creating the wall.
Speaker C:We are looking at their view template that may be overriding the lines of those walls when it should have been set in object styles.
Speaker C:And we can actually then ask the questions, is this, you know, is this one of those things that was on that list that you don't like?
Speaker C:Then here we're going to not control it in visibility graphics.
Speaker C:We're going to control it back in object styles or materials.
Speaker C:Are those showing up the way that you want them to show up?
Speaker C:It's really difficult for us to actually see a template in action without actually being in the template and putting it into action.
Speaker C:The other thing that we do is we've developed this concept of like a department store.
Speaker C:And I'll let Liz.
Speaker C:This is her.
Speaker C:Her baby.
Speaker C:I'll let her talk about it more.
Speaker C:But essentially it's also getting all the families displayed in a template environment to be able to identify line weights that don't look right because of the way that the template object styles are set up and how they interact with all the families that they have.
Speaker C:If you don't have them all laid out, you don't have.
Speaker C:It's kind of like a black box.
Speaker C:You're kind of just, you know, you bring a Family over into your plan.
Speaker C:And you're like, I hope it looks good, but you don't know until you've actually got it displayed.
Speaker C:And so, you know, working through those kind of three key pieces is the ideal way to kind of start getting into the template.
Speaker C:And then as we do that, basically we kind of.
Speaker C:I take it, not taking ownership, but we kind of then, like, can wrap our head around the whole template and start tweaking it as, like, the whole tool shed.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:We can kind of.
Speaker C:Then we know all the different corners, and we know that if we add something here, we need to take it away here, here.
Speaker C:It's really, really difficult to do that by just looking at a template file.
Speaker C:You've got to be in there, you've got to be working.
Speaker C:You got to figure out, you know, is this the hammer that they like?
Speaker C:Is this the wood they like to use?
Speaker C:Does it look the right way?
Speaker C:Is this paint the right color?
Speaker C:Yeah, all the.
Speaker C:All that kind of stuff and all that.
Speaker C:Sorry, Liz, I went a little bit further on this.
Speaker A:It's fine.
Speaker A:I can explain the.
Speaker A:The department store, because we have kind of two.
Speaker A:We have one for 2D objects and one for 3D that we build.
Speaker A:And the 2D is, you know, details, and basically little icons and stickers we use to build details.
Speaker A:So instead of doing lots of line work, you have these objects that represent a 2x4, represent a nail, represent whatever fasteners you have.
Speaker A:And so that's one library.
Speaker A:And it's like Megan said.
Speaker A:You lay it all out, you look at it in a bluebeam session and decide, this looks great.
Speaker A:Do it one time, and then you're.
Speaker A:You set it, and you can almost forget it.
Speaker A:But as you go forward, if a nail or fastener or 2 by 4 or something else starts to look wonky, you can always go back, fix it in one place, and then going forward, it's forever fixed.
Speaker A:But with 3D content, it becomes even more complicated because you have different force medium and fine.
Speaker A:You have it cut, you have it in reflected ceiling plans.
Speaker A:You have.
Speaker A:In this view, you want a symbol, but in this view, you want to see 3D objects.
Speaker A:So that's where it's a literal department store.
Speaker A:The model has 16 levels, and each level has its own category.
Speaker A:And we lay out all the doors and all the windows.
Speaker A:And then as it goes forward, I have clients who their department store is rather developed, so when they ask for new things, I test it against that department store which has their view templates, which has their line styles and their Object styles.
Speaker A:So I place a window and then I can look at it in a plan view in an elevation and make sure that nothing came in that was wrong or nothing got forgotten or, you know, the, the swing looks correct and it's controlled and it didn't bring in a bunch of TR with it.
Speaker A:So that's a really powerful tool that we have on the side that keeps the template clean because it's not in a template, it's in its own file.
Speaker A:And then you can go there and literally shop for the items you want by spinning the model around and looking and pick up the thing you need and put it in your project and have with pretty close to 100% certainty that it's going to look good unless you messed up your, your project file somehow.
Speaker B:Gotcha.
Speaker B:Well, that was very cool.
Speaker B:So, from what I understand, you can fix my Revit template, but if my Revit template is a tool shed, we keep going with it.
Speaker B:I'll have to invite you in.
Speaker B:We'll have to make something small together so you understand where my drill is, which Corner has the 3D printer, where the plug is for the soldering iron, all that stuff.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And then once we make that small, maybe stool or something, then we can start making tables and you can help me turn out tables or whatever it is we're doing.
Speaker C:More or less.
Speaker A:I would say so.
Speaker A:I would also say that no, Aurora Bim can't fix your template, but together we can fix your template right together.
Speaker B:In that tool shed.
Speaker B:Getting our hands in there.
Speaker C:We could go into the tool shed and work all day long and make it what we would want it, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to work for you.
Speaker B:Perfectly understood, perfectly answered.
Speaker B:I thank you very much for your time today and I want to thank the viewers as well for taking their time to watch.
Speaker B:Hopefully now, you know, if you need help with anything Revit related, I think Aurora Bim would be a first call you should make.
Speaker B:The ladies are super busy, but they will make time for you because, you know, that's how, you know, that's how they do.
Speaker B:They are very nice people, but they are busy and I hope that will help you out with whatever you need.
Speaker B:But if you need it, here we are.
Speaker B:We're not that busy.
Speaker B:No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker B:We're busy too, but we'd love to sign new clients with Architecture, Design, Engineering, Space.
Speaker B:So if you need help with it, we can help with that here at Arc It.
Speaker B:Again, thank you very much, everybody for watching, listening.
Speaker B:We'll see you all next week.
Speaker B:Liz, Megan, thank you.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker C:Alex.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker B:All right, cheers.
Speaker C:Bye.
Speaker A:Bye.
