What should parents really be telling their kids before they leave the nest?

In this episode of the Where Parents Talk podcast, host Lianne Castelino speaks to writer and mom of three, Joanne McHugh, creator of the newsletter Things Your Mom Should Have Told You.

McHugh how parents can help their young adults navigate love, work, money, and life’s inevitable messiness — without lecturing or sugarcoating.

She shares how her own daughters inspired her mission to offer honest, heartfelt, and practical wisdom to 20-somethings finding their footing in today’s complicated world.

Key topics:

• Why “happy talk” can backfire when preparing kids for adulthood
• How sharing your own struggles builds stronger relationships
• Talking about dating and finances without sounding like a sermon
• Navigating hustle culture and burnout
• Helping young adults normalize the messiness of their 20s

This podcast is for parents, guardians, teachers and caregivers to learn proven strategies and trusted tips on raising kids, teens and young adults based on science, evidenced and lived experience.

You’ll learn the latest on topics like managing bullying, consent, fostering healthy relationships, and the interconnectedness of mental, emotional and physical health.

Links referenced in this episode:

• whereparentstalk.com

Foreign welcome to the Where Parents Talk podcast. We help grow better parents through science, evidence and the lived experience of other parents.

Learn how to better navigate the mental and physical health of your tween teen or young adult through proven expert advice. Here's your host, Lianne Castelino.

Welcome to Where Parents Talk. My name is Lianne Castelino. Our guest today is a writer and a self styled mom on call.

Joanne McHugh is a former global marketing executive and creator of the newsletter Things yous Mom should have Told you'd. She's also a mother of three herself and she joins us today from Harleysville, Pennsylvania. Thank you so much for making the time.

Thanks for having me, Leanne.

Really interesting title for your newsletter. And I'm curious, Joanne, what made you decide that there was a need for this type of information for young adults?

Well, I have three daughters and when it got to the stage where they were all either in high school or college, you know, I started to, you start to remember some of the milestones and like the key events that happen in your young adult life.

And I started to notice that whenever we talked about their futures or things that were coming down the pike or whatever, it was always like boundless optimism and everything was always going to be fantastic. And like we very rarely spoke about any kind of struggles or anything like that that was going to happen. And I think that that's good.

And you always want to have, you know, engender a certain sense of hope in your kids.

But then at a certain point it's kind of not realistic if you're not talking about some of the pitfalls that can happen along the way or challenges they're going to have or struggles or whatever.

And I read about a rule that marathoners follow that is if they've covered like certain terrain and then a runner who's coming behind them asks what it was like instead of like resulting to happy talk and saying, oh, it won't be that bad or whatever, what you should do is tell them what they can expect about what's ahead so that they have a more realistic view of things. And when I reflected on it, I realized that that was how I wanted to approach things with my daughters as they were kind of getting ready to.

So I started to be more intentional about what I talked to them about or the stories that I shared or different episodes from my young adult life, you know, just in the interest of trying to pass along some wisdom.

Really interesting analogy and a really interesting intentional choice that you made.

So why do you think then that so many parents hesitate to go down this road of having these difficult, often, you know, scary conversations for a lot of families.

Well, I think when your kids are little, you kind of default to the idea of you want them to feel a sense of security, so you kind of go into parent mode and you kind of have like, you, you try to like create, you know, this perception that you're an all knowing being and they always had it together or whatever, and there's a certain need for that. Like, as I said, you want your kids to feel secure.

But I think the trick is, and not everybody kind of like thinks about it or realizes it is at a certain point, as they get closer to adulthood, ideally you treat them more like an adult too, and you start to share with him some things that maybe you would have kept to yourself in the past.

So you start to open up and be a little bit more authentic about them or maybe, you know, put in more details of, of things that happen that maybe you edited out of your life story in the past just to do kind of like, you know, first of all, I think it enhances your credibility with them because then they realize, oh, mom or dad, like, didn't always have it together or things happen to them and it just becomes a more authentic relationship.

It's such a fine line though, right?

Because on the one hand you're considering things like is it age appropriate depending on how old your child is, you know, how much can they actually take of what I'm saying in the current world where so much of it is negative and we're exposed to so much negativity and, you know, level of maturity, there's a whole bunch of things that, you know, one can think about if as a parent they want to approach these conversations in your own lived experience as well as your perspective from maybe what you've witnessed with others. What do you think changes when parents do share some of these truths about adulthood?

Oh, I mean, I will say it's being vulnerable is very scary, especially the first time you do it. Or you kind of open up and share things that you're a little bit nervous about sharing with them.

And you're right, you should always feel comfortable enough. It should be age appropriate conversations. But when you do open up, that vulnerability also tends out, tends to be a very powerful thing.

And when you are vulnerable with your child and they recognize that you're being very candid and honest with them, that opens up a certain intimacy that you can't really have when they're younger kids. But as they approach adulthood, that can be a very valuable thing.

And I think they send when they sense that you're being authentic and sharing with them that will then sometimes open up conversations where they are more willing to share their experiences or their struggles with you or to come to you with questions or dilemmas of, of their own. So it feels a little bit, you know, it's a little nerve wracking at first maybe when you first start to do it.

But then the more you open up, I think, I think you will tend to find that your relationship with your kids deepens.

And it's an interesting point, right, because for many families, many parents, it almost is as if they have to come to terms with their own past. If they haven't before, they're able to share it with now, they're their young child. So there's that piece as well.

Joanna, in your newsletter you cover all kinds of topics. Curious as to what are the most common struggles that you're seeing with respect to what 20 somethings are coming up against.

Well, I mean I cover a lot of topics. I do everything from career to love and relationships to get your shit together, you know, category or whatever. So like it runs the gamut.

But what I find in terms of like my most popular posts that I've done have tended to be ones that deal with love and relationships. And I think there are a couple of reasons for that. One is I think it's just an area of natural curiosity.

I think it's one of the things that young adults are trying to figure out.

I think when it comes to certain topics, like if it is a career topic or, you know, how do I get a car loan or something like that, those are things that it's relatively easy to Google. But something like this, where it's more in depth, there's no standard answer or whatever.

If they don't have an adult in their life who is sharing this kind of information with them, you know, maybe they're not comfortable or they haven't asked or it just hasn't happened yet. You know, they are looking sometimes.

I mean there is no shortage of information out there on social media or in the media, the Internet or whatever about love and relationships. There's reality shows, there's plenty of different ideas.

But I think that there, there's still, there's like some something of a desire to like hear sometimes from like, you know, the older and wiser, you know, either my parent or somebody like my parent about what was their experience. Like somebody who could take it all and put it into context.

So then what would you suggest to a parent in terms of how they can go about handling some of those trickier topics, like relationships, for example?

Well, I think the first thing is, is that, you know, I'm a big one for reflecting on your own experience.

I think one of the things that as your child gets older and certainly anybody who has anybody over the age of 13 in their house knows that there's a certain resistance that enters in at a certain point when, when mom or dad, like, tends to impart advice. So I'm a big fan of.

Instead of telling them something directly, if you can share a story, that's kind of ideal because then they, they don't have the sense that, oh, mom's trying to tell me to do X.

It's more that they can listen to the story kind of like in their own mind, like, you know, figure out what might be applicable to them or to their situations or whatever, and then they take what they need from the story. And I think, you know, humans are kind of wired to receive information, you know, in this way.

So if you can kind of lean on your experiences and there's something similar if they're coming home and they're like, yeah, like my, my whole, you know, friend group, it's like everybody's, you know, going in different directions and I don't have anybody to, to sit with at lunch anymore or whatever it is.

You know, if you have, you may not have a directly applicable situation, but if you can kind of think of a situation you've been in that's similar and relate to that, that to them, first of all, it's going to make them feel much less alone.

And then secondly, as I said, they can kind of like weigh it and figure out if there, if there's something in that that they can take away and use and apply to themselves.

Well, and on that topic of relationships, I mean, dating in your 20s or dating in general at the best of times, it can be a messy pursuit.

You know, how can parents go about encouraging thoughtful, you know, choices from their kids without overstepping or sounding too demanding or authoritarian or, you know, just telling them what to do?

Yeah, I mean, that's the tricky one. And I think of, like, all of the situations that are out there. This is one of the areas where you probably have to tread most lightly.

And I, I'm trying to think of what other situations in your life.

You know, could there be more of a do it yourself type of project or like a solo project than, you know, dating or, you Know, finding the one or something like that. So again, I don't think it's that you want to give direct advice now if there are certain instances in your life or things that you've learned.

And again, you can kind of see parallels with what your child is facing or your child asks you about it.

You know, you kind of have to pick your moment and figure out that there might be a time to wade in and, you know, that they, they might be more receptive to it. I think other than that, you know, one of the things that I like to do with my newsletter is I don't like it to always be my voice.

Like, I think that, you know, you need more than one source of wisdom. So I have a book of the month in which I share snippets from different, you know, I think of them as books of wisdom from for young adults.

So there are certain books that are out there. There's like a great one called how to Not Die Alone, which is, you know, written by one of the behavior experts at Hinge, you know, the dating app.

That's very good. There's another book called Outdated. So I think, you know, books are a wonderful vehicle.

I know that we're in, in a place where, you know, videos, podcasts, we tend to get a lot of our information that way, but I still think there's such a great place for books because it's kind of like a chance for like a one to one sharing and you know, something like that maybe is also could be helpful in a situation like that.

What did this look like in your household?

Joanne, you've got three girls, three young adults now, but when they were going through this relationship piece that you're talking about, how were you intentional? What did that look like in terms of how you approached the conversation with them?

Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things where I can't say like there was never any time of like, you know, at a certain age, somebody got sat down for a talking to or something like that. So I'm very big on kind of like the, you know, looking for opportunities or like teachable moments or something like that.

So I would say it was more of a case of, you know, things woven into the conversation. Gosh. And there's like so much to talk about. And I think, you know, people, you know, my own daughters, I have one that's engaged now.

The people have been in relationship, people are single now or whatever. So I think it's one of those things where I try to be as kind of like Respectful and hands off as I can be.

I think if you're a parent, certainly if there are situations that are concerning and you're, you know, worried that your child's in an unhealthy relationship or whatever, then, you know, it is kind of your responsibility to find a way to speak up and approach your child. But I don't know that there's a one size fits all.

It's kind of like one of those things where you have to see how it's going and figure out how, how to apply it.

So what would you have wished that your mom told you in this vein that maybe she didn't when you were growing up?

Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things where I feel like I did get a lot of wisdom from my mom. And, you know, having a newsletter called things your mom should have told you makes it sound like, oh, her mother must not have told her anything.

But my mom did tell me a lot of things. And I think, you know, I say mom, but really it's like your mom or someone should have told you.

And I think one of the things, when I've reflected back on my young adulthood, there were so many things that came up that I didn't expect or didn't unfold the way I expected them to.

Like, I expected that I was going to graduate and immediately come out and, and find, you know, my ideal, like, dream type of job and that was going to financially reward and delight me. And it didn't work out like that.

You know, I really hated my first job or, you know, you get engaged, you're getting married, you're looking forward to, you know, wedding planning, and it's going to be this, like, grand time or whatever. And planning a wedding wasn't as much fun as I thought it would be. And, you know, there are a lot of reasons for that.

So I feel like there are a lot of things that come along in adulthood that again.

And maybe it's some of it's, you know, us, it's society, we kind of like paint the rosiest picture, which again, you want to be hopeful and encouraging.

But the reality is, is that, you know, with the job thing for one, one thing, it would have been more realistic to assume you get your first job, you develop some of the skills that ideally might lead you to a job that you would like better later on, or you're planning a wedding and certain aspects of it will be wonderful and enjoyable and fun.

But you're bringing two families together, you're going to have to, you know, Discern guest lists and, you know, you're dealing with things that are going to be expensive. Like there are just a lot of natural points of, I don't know, possible dissension or troubles can come along in the way.

So I think that that's kind of the thing.

I wish that somebody had told me when I was a young adult to understand that it wasn't just all going to be sunshine and roses, that there were going to be some difficulties, which was perfectly normal. Yeah.

And it sounds like at the end of the day, you know, getting them to a place where it's eyes wide open when they go into whatever they're going to be experiencing. You talked the first job piece and, you know, most graduates, hopefully they think they're going to land the perfect first job, which is a.

It's a great thought to have. The reality for most of them is very different, especially in the times we're talking about.

So how do you go about, as a parent, being supportive while also painting a realistic picture, not being too negative about it, while also maybe telling them, you know, you kind of maybe have to take what's available in today's economy to some degree as well?

Yeah, I mean, I guess my go to is to kind of like think back and like, dig into my well of experience.

Either if it was something I had gone through or I know my husband had gone through, or close friends, you know, that, you know, we live through this together or whatever, or sometimes you have friends who have kids who are maybe a little bit older than yours and. And that child might have experienced something like, wow, it's really a tough job market. And, you know, so. And so had to take this or whatever.

So I think, you know, my go to is kind of like, is there somebody out there who we know who has had like, a similar experience and you can kind of like plant that seed and, you know, again, when you get to the point where your kids are adults, the whole thing, I've heard it described as you're supposed to be the guide on the side. Right. Like, you're not the. The sage on the stage anymore.

You're supposed to be kind of off there kind of like as a consultant or, you know, you come in when. When needed. So I think there's different things that you can kind of like bring into it.

Again, it depends on what your child is encountering as they're job hunting or they've taken a job and it's not really what they wanted. So, you know, you're there to empathize with them and to say, well, that's too bad. You know, in my experience, it's usually best.

It's usually easier to find your next job when you're currently employed. So you kind of have to tough it out. I mean, you can start to like poke around or whatever. So just like little things like that.

It's almost like more some, some coaching. But I think you very much want to leave the kids in the driver's seat.

Absolutely.

And it's that fine line between, you know, an emerging adult or young trying to be independent while still trying to navigate a world that is changing every second of the day that many adults are struggling to understand, you know, that are maybe in their 40s, 50s, and 60s when talking about jobs and things, finance, understanding budgets. Financial literacy obviously is a life skill.

What should parents be talking to with their emerging, a young adult about financial literacy, in your opinion?

Yeah, I think that's one of those ones where if you can start to weave it in, say maybe when they're in their teens and do it little by little.

I mean, if, if you've kind of let it all go to, you know, they're loading up the truck and they're moving into their first, that first apartment, you know, two states away or something like that. That's difficult to figure out. What do I have to let them know, you know, in the next, in the next week or so.

But I think there's lots of opportunities, things that come up, you know, if your teen gets a job and comes home with their first paycheck and the pay stub of explaining like, who is this FICA and why did he get a cut of my wages for the week or whatever, like that's an opportunity there. Or your child's graduated, they've gotten their first job for the first time, they need to file their income taxes or whatever.

Like that's something where, you know, they might appreciate some hand holding or walking through or how does this work or whatever. So I just think that there ideally are different opportunities that come up along the way.

I think the other thing that we found worked well with our daughters is we tried to gradually hand off some of the financial responsibilities.

So in their teen years, you know, some of the, some of the, of the money that they were making from their part time job or their babysitting gigs or whatever, you know, that was covering their entertainment expenses. Then people got their driver's licenses and all of a sudden now there was a car insurance premium.

And that was something that we're like, okay, if you're going to drive like this is your responsibility.

And I think the tendency as parents, like it's nice to kind of just be like, you know, covering all of it for them and not having the kids have any financial worries, but then all the, then later on when you know they're going to have to take everything on someday, then it's more of a shock to the system.

So I think kind of like this gradual thing or once they get to college, okay, like you know, the tuition, like we've worked that out, either you know, we're covering this or there's loans or whatever, but you know, you're responsible for your book bill or you know, now clothing budget, like that's on you. Like mom and dad aren't going to pick up that tab anymore.

And again, I think as parents like you always, you know, there's part of you that always wants to give them the world. But I think on the other hand, I guess, you know, handing this over gradually, that helps them to kind of have a little skin in the game themselves.

And once something is coming out of their budget, let me tell you, they're usually a lot more conscious of the cost of things or do I really need, you know, another sweater or dress or something like that. So it's kind of like helping them to kind of like get that skill of budgeting and being financially responsible.

So my recommendation is to ideally not hit them all at once, but to kind of like make it a gradual ramp up.

Many experts who have studied the 20 somethings and just that decade will say that it is messy and it is, you know, filled with all kinds of angst for people in that decade. That's just what happens. We live in a time now where that's probably even more so the case.

How can parents go about trying to normalize sort of unfinished everything during that 20 something phase?

Yeah, I mean if you've gone through something in your household where like let's say that at some point you all have tackled a project like a kitchen renovation or something like that, where you've lived through that for weeks, like anybody who's gone through that understands that just by its nature it's kind of messy, you've got to take rip all the old stuff out before you start to build the new stuff up. And it's a process.

So I think anything you can do to kind of normalize that and remind the kids that it's not going to just all happen overnight again, bringing in your own personal experiences of, you know, maybe it took you more than four years to get through college, or, you know, maybe you got the career thing up and running, but you didn't find your significant other right away. And, you know, it was just. There's. There's a lot of pieces.

And I think just even saying to them, like, your 20s, like, when you're trying to, like, put a whole life together and it's the first time, you don't have just the natural progression that there's always been, that you move up to the next grade and then the next grade, and it's all very defined. It's great to have the freedom to design the type of life that you want, but it's also a lot of. A lot of pieces.

And I think the more that you can do to encourage them of, like, not everything has to be perfect right away, and kind of, like, you get one thing up and running and also, you know, having them understand, very rarely does everybody. Is everybody juggling all the balls in the air just, you know, ideally right away. Like, it just takes some time to get going.

So, again, if you have some stories in your personal history that you can pull out, you know, to kind of demonstrate, hey, look at how long it took me to get this, this, and this together.

Because otherwise, they've only ever known you as an adult who probably had, you know, some sense of stability by the team by the time they came along and were aware of who you were, and mom and dad always seemed to have it together. They don't have the benefit of knowing what your 20s looked like. So the more that you can, like, share that with them, that will help them.

Help ground them.

One of the things that's uniquely challenging about the times we live in is the fact that hustle culture is a thing. The gig economy is a thing.

How can a parent who did not grow up with that when they were in their twenties now sort of, you know, square that circle for their child in terms of talking about ambition versus burnout, if they do fall into that category of, you know, being in the hustle culture.

Yeah, no, that's one of the things. And, like, I don't think. I don't think that there's a whole lot that we as parents need to do to try and, like, orient our kids to.

To wanting to achieve or be successful or whatever.

I think there are plenty of voices out there in the culture that will already be encouraging them or, you know, going beyond what should be a natural level of ambition that people should have. So the world is kind of taking care of that.

So really, I Think as a parent, we're, you know, maybe one of the few, like spokespeople that are out there for the idea of work life balance.

I mean, I think that kids will, by the time they reach young adulthood, they will have already observed how you're managing your life and your work life balance. And, you know, hopefully they've picked up good habits from you, even if maybe you weren't as balanced as you wanted to be.

It doesn't mean that it's trouble, it's just that maybe it's, you know, being honest with them about, gee, you know, I did such and such and like, looking back on it, I wish I had done this instead. You know, again, it's just a time for, for sharing and being honest with them about it.

Kind of helping them to understand like the big picture and, you know, hustle culture is all about work. But I think the reality is, is if you talk to most 20 somethings, they want more than just work in their life.

Like, they want relationships, they may have personal interests, hobbies, things they want to pursue. They may have certain goals that they want to do to help humanity, you know, volunteering.

So I think whatever you as a parent can do to encourage them to pursue those interests in addition to like, whatever, you know, work goals they have.

Joanne, you mentioned the broad spectrum of themes and topics that you cover in your newsletter.

How do you arrive on some of those themes in terms of where do they come to you from and is there any feedback that you've gotten that really sticks in your mind in terms of, of, you know, people reaching out to you to say, wow, that was really useful or, you know, could you talk about X?

Yeah, I mean, I, I have a running spreadsheet that I keep for each of the topic areas and I am always having ideas. I mean, I think I started in the beginning with different things that I wish somebody had told me and I went from there.

I'm constantly adding it to it based on, you know, what my daughter's experience or if I hear of, you know, children of friends or my daughter's friends or something like that, the different issues and topics that come up.

And I think what's meaningful to me is like the different times it doesn't have to, you know, I don't have to get 10 comments say that are, you know, patting me on the back for something, but it can just be one comment of like, thanks for that piece you did on, on mental health and you know, what you wish you knew about mental health and like that, you know, I could do cartwheels over a comment like that for a whole week afterwards because it says to me that I put something out there that somebody got some usefulness out of.

So with respect to being a young adult today, there's obviously, it's uniquely challenging for a host of reasons that we're talking about.

What would you suggest to parents as something that they could consider to be proactive about having these conversations when their kids become young adults as opposed to reacting after something terrible has happened or there's some kind of a crisis?

Yeah, I mean, I think it's one of those things as. As your kids get older, there can kind of be a little bit.

You can feel a little bit deflated, like, you know that you're going to miss them, you know, that you're not going to feature as prominently in their lives as they kind of move on to other things or their friends start to. To play more of a role in their life. So you can kind of feel a little bit like you're on the sidelines a little bit more.

And you are, and you should be. But I think, you know, you probably have reached a stage in your life where, you know, you have some distance from your young adulthood.

You can look back on it, you can reflect on it. And I think, you know, if you're ever sitting around and you're wondering, you're taking a walk and wondering, you know, what.

What could I be thinking about? How could I be helping, you know, my. My daughter or my son?

You know, I would encourage you to think about those things that you wish you knew when you were in their shoes. And, you know, maybe you won't. It won't come up that you have an opportunity to have a conversation with them right away.

But I think if you're intentional about it and you're looking for the opportunities, you'd be surprised at how often, like, some sort of opening will come along and you'll get a chance to share that wisdom, that otherwise you're just going to be keeping to yourself.

On that note, if you had one truth that you had to pick about adulting that you think every parent should share with that child, and there's probably tons, but if there was one, if there's one that's really core, what would that be?

I think, and I reflected about this.

For my birthday, I wrote a piece about what my biggest challenges were when I was 19 and 24 and 29, and when I thought about what my biggest life challenge was, and it was like an obstacle and insurmountable I didn't know how I was going to solve the problem, you know, but then when I reflected on it, those problems or those obstacles typically resolved in like a year or two, sometimes in like a matter of months. So I think what I realized is that your life, my life, and it's true, too.

Even when, you know, you're my age now, your life is always going to have a biggest obstacle. And it's not. It's a feature of life. It's not a bug. Life is meant to be this way.

If you think about any series that you're streaming, you know, watching, and like, there's always some kind of challenge that comes along that the main character is trying to work out or whatever, our lives are very much the same. And that's, that's just how life goes.

And, you know, spoiler alert, too, once that challenge resolves and you're like, okay, now I got the job that I wanted, or I figured out when I'm going to be ready to start a family or, you know, I wanted to find a significant other. And I finally, you know, I found that relationship I'm looking for.

The kicker is that there's always going to be a new, significant challenge to replace it. Like, that's, that's just life.

And I think the more that we normalize that, then the less anxiety, 20 somethings or 30 somethings, the quicker we recognize that, the sooner we kind of can settle in and not be as anxious about it because we realize that's just how life goes. And there's some combination of circumstances or learnings or people come into your life or whatever, and you'll figure it out.

Lots of really great food for thought.

Joanne McHugh, writer and creator of the newsletter Things yous Mom should have Told you'd, thank you so much for your time and your perspective today.

Thanks. It was great talking with you, Leanne.

To learn more about today's podcast, guest and topic, as well as other parenting themes, visit whereparentstalk.com.