We are excited to bring you this encore presentation of one of our most popular episodes. We hope you enjoy!

In this conversation with Lawyer Charlene Sheffelmair, we dive into a different way to connect with community. In our conversation we talk about the evolution of adult friendships.  With vulnerability, we discuss the pain, grief and loss that comes from friendship change or closure.  We talk about the importance of proximity and maintaining connection in meaningful ways as well as the evolution of friendship in the seasons of life. 

We also discuss:

- being active in friendship

- awareness in personal expectations

- staying connected and being thoughtful

- love languages in friendship

- love, loss, and letting go in friendship breakup

- meaningful moving on with memories, and the version of self now

- the seasons of friendship, growth, and evolution

- values in friendship, quality, and commitment

- having meaningful conversations in friendship

- fear of rejection, courage, and intuition

-building new friendships in adulthood and transitioning from acquaintance to something deeper and more meaningful

About the Guest:

Charlene Scheffelmair is an Associate Lawyer with Davidson & Williams LLP. She maintains a primarily solicitor-focused practice in the areas of corporate/commercial law, real estate, planning & development, and wills & estates. Additionally, a small portion of Charlene’s practice brings herto the courtroom and has provided her with the opportunity to appear at all levels of Court in Alberta.

Charlene currently serves on multiple boards including the Lethbridge Chamber of Commerce and the Lethbridge Bar Association. She also serves as a member of the Canadian Bar Association National Sections Subcommittee and as a member of the Law Society of Alberta Lawyer Competency Advisory Committee.

Charlene was raised in Southern Alberta and spent most of her childhood summers at 40 Mile Reservoir. In her free time, Charlene enjoys playing piano, knitting, and spending time with her fur babies, Phoebe, Frankie, and Ellie.

About the Host:

Tanya's mission is to create a legacy of self-love for women that reinforces trust in themselves through our programs, coaching, podcast, and book, The Trifecta of Joy! As Founder and creator of the Trifecta of Joy Philosophy, she combines over 30 years of research and work in various helping fields, to help you achieve your greatest successes!

Using her philosophy of the Trifecta of Joy, her mission is to empower people through their struggles with the elements of awareness, befriending your inner critic and raising your vibe. This podcast is about sharing stories of imperfection moving through life to shift toward possibilities, purpose, and power in your life!

Having had many wtf moments including becoming a widow, struggling with weight and body image issues, dating after loss, single parenting, remarriage, and blending families, Tanya is committed to offering you inspiration and empowerment – body, mind, and spirit!

As a speaker, writer, and coach, Tanya steps into her life’s purpose daily – to INSPIRE HOPE.

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My friends welcome to the trifecta of joy. I am joined today by Charlene Scheffelmair. Now Charlene is amazing. Because not only is she my lawyer, but she has this really, really cool newsletter called The show FET. Now, Charlene is an associate lawyer with Davidson and Williams. And she's primarily a solicitor focused in the areas of corporate and commercial law, real estate planning and development and wills and estates. However, however, what she does, if she puts together this really cool newsletter, every month, and when Charlene, I'm so glad you'reCharlene Scheffelmair here, thank you for being here. charFirst of all,

thank you for having me, oh,

when you put together this newsletter, it is so beautiful. Because what you do is you weave pieces of your life and your own experiences into also helping people understand themselves. And then you talk about some bits and pieces and give advice around how to navigate different legal situations for people. So have a question, though, why did you decide to also add that personal piece to your newsletters,

I've been grappling for a long time with wanting to start a blog. And I couldn't really decide on the right platform. And I had always also wanted to do a little bit of, you know, legal writing. And you know, we had toyed around with the idea of maybe doing, you know, a legal blog, and you know, maybe on the DW website or something like that. And I finally just said, I ran across a LinkedIn newsletter one day, and I'd never seen one before I started looking into that. And I thought, you know, that was just kind of the perfect platform, and I couldn't decide on one or the other. So I just thought, you know, I can kind of do both, and make it make it my own and do something different.

It's so lovely. It is so lovely. Now, the one that really, really caught me and really connected deeply with me, was the one that you wrote about friendship. Now, in your own words, how would you describe what you wrote about with regard to friendship?

Just the friendship transitions, adult friendships are really hard. And as we move into adulthood, you know, our relationships change and our ability to service those relationships change as our as our demands on our time and on on our life change. And, you know, sometimes it's really difficult to deal with that change. And I've gone through a lot of transition with many of my friendships. And so it was something that had been on my mind really recently, and so I just wanted to write about it. And, you know, it was kind of cathartic, actually, to kind of get it all out on the on the page and process it that way. And

so let's talk about the evolution of friendship. What have you personally experienced in the evolution of adult friendship? Because I think we all notice that our adult friendships do evolve, and they do change and they kind of morph and sometimes they become closer, and sometimes they fall away. What's your, what was your experience?

So I've had a couple of different experiences. So in my post, I wrote about a high school best friend, that we are no longer friends. And that was a really big, that was really difficult for me, and just the way that friendship ended was really difficult. You know, it one day, I thought we were best friends. And the next, you know, she was calling me to tell me that, you know, she didn't want to be friends with me anymore. And I was completely taken aback by that. And it was it was really hard. And then, you know, I have other friendships where just proximity is a major factor. You know, my best friend from law school, she's still in Kelowna, and our we went to law school together in Kamloops and a 10 hour distance is really, really hard to maintain a super close friendship and, you know, you can stay in contact in a lot of ways. But proximity is, I think, a really big component of friendship, you know, and

proximity that that is an interesting thing, right? Because proximity gives us the opportunity kind of to be in each other's faces and spaces a little bit more, which in some ways makes the relationship feel more tangible because it's in person more in person. So how do you maintain a friendship over that kind of distance.

So I'm pretty active in my friendships, I really make a point to reach out either, you know, texting or calling or, you know, I like to keep tabs on my friends, you know, their, their successes. They're just what they're doing in their lives. And so, you know, I tried to be really thoughtful about my friends, friendships and so when I know things are going on with them, you know, promotion at work or, you know, something challenging at work, you know, I keep tabs on that. And so I'll send them messages or I'm a gift giver. I show love through gift giving. And so you know, when tough things are going on, I'll send them you know, A little something out there or flowers or, you know, I just tried to be really thoughtful in my friendships and with distance. Sometimes that's one of the only things you really can do when you can't just show up at their house and you know, go for a coffee or have a visit.

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think that, you know, so it's interesting. You talk about being a gift giver. Are you familiar with the five love languages? Yeah. Yeah. So it would you say your primary love language is gift giving? What are your primary love languages?

Ah, let me just refresh myself. So physical touch is definitely my lowest less language. So gift giving words of affirmation, and acts of service are all kind of closely knit at the top, I think access service is my top top one. The fourth one is escaping me. But yeah, it's, it's funny, my husband and I will take the quizzes, you know, every year, maybe every six months and just kind of check in and see if, if they've changed and allows us to be really intentional in the way we interact with one another as well.

You know, and that's the thing, right? Like, the love languages aren't exclusive to our romantic relationships? For sure. Right? So it's, it's gifts, words of affirmation. Physical Touch. Oh, what are they get extra service? So service? And quality time? Oh, that's it. Yeah. And quality time? Yeah. So it's interesting, because we have, we recognize those things in our intimate relationships. And I think it's beautiful that you and your husband review them. Because it because Peter and I do the same thing, actually, we kind of go through and see if there are changes in the way that we are, you know, wanting to be loved and the way we are loving, right? That does extend into our friendships, right. So, you know, the way you're describing staying connected to friends over a distance is totally aligned with your love languages. Now, you talked about the end of a friendship. And I think that there's a lot of value in having conversations around when friendships evolve, or devolve, or dissipate. Because, as adults, I mean, kids go through that, and they struggle. I mean, as teenagers, I think we've all been through the ups and downs of a friendship, you know, turmoil. And then as adults, we still have those experiences. And, you know, it's navigating that the challenge of figuring out, you know, is this a friendship? That is so important that I want to fight for it? Or is this a friendship that I have to recognize I have to let go? Or, you know, how am I showing up in the friendship? How does the other person show up in the friendship? When when you share and I'm sorry, when you share this experience of? Well, of you know, thinking someone was your best friend, and then all of a sudden them saying, kind of friends are off? How did you deal with that? What was your experience of that?

It was really, really tough. It felt like, you know, I really never gone through a romantic breakup, my husband, and I've been together since we were 15. But so it kind of felt like my first you know, really big breakup, you know, I, there was a lot of emotion and a lot of tears in those, you know, first few days and just kind of go through all of asking yourself, why, and, you know, what did I miss, and, you know, I, you know, I was trying to wrack my brain going, you know, has this been in front of me this whole time, and I just didn't see it. And so, you know, there's kind of all of that, but then all of the things that remind you of them, you know, when when you've been close for a number of years, all sorts of things will remind you of them. For instance, Gerber daisies that were her favorite flower, they're also my favorite flower, but you know, I can't think of them now without her popping into my mind, or places that we've been, or, you know, just memories that we had, and, you know, she was in my wedding. And so even our wedding photos, you know, she's in them. And so there was kind of this transition of, you know, I was really, really bitter for a really long time, and it was hard to get get over. And, you know, when her wedding came and went, that was really difficult for me. But I think just kind of as Time moved on, and I unpacked it a little bit in therapy, and, you know, you just kind of find a way to, to continue on and, and put your time and your energy into other places. But sometimes, the only thing that really heals those wounds is time. And, you know, it's probably one of the most cliche things to say, but, you know, it just, you needed the time to just, you know, let it let it ride and, you know, get through it.

And that's really it. Right. You also described the experience of, you know, needing to process it and come to that space of kind of a peace and acceptance. And yeah, At, and yet, there are always going to be reminders of that friendship. Right? And so it's really about what you do with those reminders. Right? So are you able to hold the space of honoring the beauty of the friendship that was, now that time has passed,

I'm getting there, it's, my first thought isn't bitterness anymore, but I think there's still a lot of hurt and confusion, you know, and her and I haven't spoken, you know, in 18 months, you know, I've seen her once. And it was at our high school reunion of all places, which was, you know, a really awkward experience. And, you know, we both just kind of maintained our distance. And, you know, we were able to coexist in a space. But as I moved transitioning in some of my other friendships, and you know, some of those voids are filled with other things, I think it's getting easier to look back on it and not be bitter about it, and realize that, you know, that that was a friendship for that season of my life. And we grew apart, and I feel she missed out on on this season of my wife and this version of me. And, you know, I think that's really unfortunate that she never really got to meet and hang out with this version of me. But that was for that season, and now we're trying to move forward and onward and upward.

The seasons, that's such an important thing to talk about is the seasons of life, right? I mean, it sounds like you and she were friends from high school. So you're in a very different space in your life now. And you recognize that she's missing out on this version of you. You know, you move, we move into different spaces of friendship, and the grief and the loss and the transition. And are you in a space where you can forgive?

I don't know, necessarily, if it's a forgiveness tape thing. I mean, it's one of those really difficult things, you know, someone had asked me, you know, if she came to you today and said, You know, I'd like to renew the friendship, you know, what would you do? And that was a really hard question for me, because, you know, at different stages, you know, in the last 18 months, I think my answer would have been different. And, you know, I don't know necessarily what I would do, I feel like there's a lot of water under the bridge now. And I think there would have to be a pretty big conversation about what went on, and how much that hurt me. And, you know, I, I'm not going to say it's never possible, but at the same time, I've kind of recognized that I'm in that new season of my life. And you know, if she was able to just end a friendship, like that, with no explanation and really know, what felt like no care for my feelings, I don't know that that's necessarily a friend, I want to welcome into the new season of my life either. So it's, I'm not going to say never, but I don't know what I would honestly say if she approached me now.

And that's really about having your own awareness, as we're talking about the evolution of friendships and letting go and recognizing the season of your life. What What values do you find yourself aligning with when you think about your friendships moving forward?

Probably one of the biggest ones I have always identified with is, you know, loyalty. I, I've always been one of those people that, you know, once we've kind of solidified a friendship, you know, we're friends, I'm, I'm there for you, you know, and I want that you're there for me when I need you. And, you know, it's, I really focus on quality over over quantity. So that's a big one for me. And, you know, I think having this mutual respect for one another, you know, with, you know, who you are, as people, I think part of the problem that I had in that friendship that dissolved is, you know, I just finally came to the conclusion that I had unrealistic expectations for the person that she was, you know, we we just, I was trying to put a square peg into a round hole. And, you know, we just, I don't know, that we ever really matched as well as I thought that we did. And so I think that, you know, you need to have just respect for the people that your friends are and not try to change them into someone that, you know, better suits you. I think there's always room for personal growth, but there's growth and then there's, you know, just trying having expectations that people are going to be someone that they're not

hmm, you know, it's interesting when we go into intimate partner relationships, we, we kind of have a set of expectations that we have and sometimes we message those with our partner because we want them to know like, this is who I am and this is how I want to show up for you. And this is how our relationship can evolve together. And I don't, you know, we don't do that in friendships. And yet we have people who, you know, I, in my book, I talk about my High Council, and the High Council of my heart is, is really about, you know, this, this core group of people that basically, I know that if I got a phone call from them at 10 o'clock or two o'clock in the morning, and they said, I need $10,000 And bring a shovel. I would have some questions, but there's an unquestionable I would be there, because that's the intensity and depth of that friendship, right. And yet, I don't think we've ever discussed our expectations in our friendship. So, you know, it's kind of navigating What are your expectations? And what are their expectations? And, you know, you said, like, you, you probably had expectations that, that she couldn't meet. And so, you know, I think we all kind of have to navigate that. Do you have really intentional conversations in your friendships about what they mean to

you? No, I don't, and I should I, you know, this probably sounds funny coming from a lawyer, but I am really conflict adverse. And I have a really hard time having those difficult conversations in my friendships. I don't have any problem having them. You know, in my marriage, we are very open communicators. But I think I have such a fear of losing the friendship that I that I really I'm the Accommodator I'm, I have a really hard time with that. And I need, I know, I need to have more of those conversations. But it's historically been really difficult for me to do that.

Well, and Charlene, I really think, though, that, that you're not alone in that I think a lot of us have that exact challenge, right? Like, how do we communicate to these people that we love so dearly? You know, when there is conflict, when there is challenge when there is difficulty, or when you just really want someone to know how much they mean to you? Right? Like, that's the other piece of it. I think, sometimes we do I know, I do take take some of my friendships for granted because they're there. And you know, those friendships are work, they they take effort, they take intention, and, and it really is important to be able to determine where you're leaning in and out, also see how that other person is leaning in as well. Right. You know, but being conflict adverse, that is hilarious that you're conflicted versus a lawyer. And, and, I mean, in reality, there's a very different kind of conflict when our heart is involved than when we're talking about legalities. Right, as something. And so when your heart is involved, it it's it is such an emotional adventure, if you will, as you move through the different phases of life, seasons of life, and a friendship. You know, it's it that, you know, it's kind of an unavoidable beautiful part of life. Who How would you describe your closest friendship right now? Hmm,

um, it's a newer friendship in my life. And it was one of those friendships, where we clicked instantly. It was really quite neat. I vividly remember one of our first, you know, dinner, dinner outings, and we had a fairly big heart to heart actually, about friendships and how, you know, both of us historically had been let down by, you know, friends in our past, and, you know, both felt like we always went the extra mile in our friendships and had the expectation that our friends would do the same thing for us, and always kind of ran into these situations where our expectations weren't met. And so her and I, I think, have similar love languages and similar expectations in the friendship and we're also in similar seasons in our lives. You know, neither of us have kids, we're both quite career driven, and so been a friendship that I've really come to appreciate, and enjoy. And so it's, it's been really great to meet someone like that, you know, at this stage of adulthood, because it's really difficult, I think, to make new close friends when in your 30s or even, you know, later than that.

Hmm. And that's, that's actually a really important thing to point out too is, you know, we do get, really do get a core foundation of our friendships in in our, you know, young adult years. And then as we move further into adulthood, we kind of do That seemed to solidify our friendships and and maybe it maybe it is harder, is it harder to break to bring new friendships into our lives as we get older Do you think?

I think so. And I think I think sometimes it's harder to transition. Like, I have a hard time I have a lot of, I don't know, acquaintance slash, I don't know, new friendships and a lot of different environments. So you know, I have people that I, you know, am really friendly with at work, and I enjoy seeing it work, I have people that I'm really friendly with, you know, on boards that I'm on, I have people that I'm really friendly with, on my volleyball team, you know, but I have always struggled with transitioning those friendships to closer friendships, probably because of my social anxiety and always worried that, you know, that person may not want to transition that friendship out of that space. But I think, as I've, I've come to realize a lot, a lot of people struggle to do that. And, you know, my husband always says to me, you know, what's, what's the worst? They're gonna say? No, like, if they say, No, it's not a big deal. You can just continue on and, yeah, so it's, I think it's, it's difficult to move those friendships into those closer places.

Mm hmm. And when you add something like social anxiety, and, and I think that I think that fear of rejection is kind of a human condition, right? Like, we all I think we all go through that experience of fearing being rejected or judged, or reaching out and not being met with that reciprocal interest or desire, that I love that your husband is like, Really, though, like, what's the worst thing that could happen? They could say No, the other piece of it is, is what is the best thing that could happen, right may not be a long enduring friendship, but it might be being able to share some cool experiences together, you know, deepening, deepening a connection in a different way. You never know what happens when you take a chance and reach out to someone, but it does take courage to be able to put yourself out there and make those connections. And the reality is that, like, what you described is like, we have all these circles of association, right? Right, like where we we kind of know of people or get to know people on a relatively surface level. Like, for example, perhaps with volleyball, like, you know, little bits and pieces, but you don't get to know each other intimately, unless you make that really intentional decision to reach out and connect. And I have to ask this, when you find like you talking about this new friendship that you have, and how you guys have connected and talked about your own experiences in friendship, and, and are being in similar places of your lives, which is so important. And I think that that is a part of a connection, too. But you also, do you intuitively feel a friendship? Like do you? Do you follow your intuition? When you're like, I need to know this person better? Or this person, there's something about this person? Do you follow that intuition?

I think so. Um, you know, I, I have a pretty good read, I think when I when I sit down with someone, you know, to have coffee, or, you know, trying to kind of explore a relationship with that person, you know, I think I get a pretty good gut feeling, you know, within the first couple of minutes, even sometimes, but sometimes you get a really strong feeling like that, like, like I did with this new friend, like, within our first coffee, it was like, I think we're gonna click and, you know, I want to have more coffees with with this person and see where it goes. And likewise, you know, as some people, you know, right away in the first couple of minutes, this person and I don't click, and that's okay, too.

Mm hmm. Being able to pay attention to what your gut is saying about whether or not this is worthy of pursuing because it aligns with your values and your feelings of connection. So important, so important. Charlene, this has been such an amazing conversation around kind of the evolution of friendship. And the reason you know, it was so important to me to have you talk about it was because you talked about that experience of, of losing a friendship and moving forward so beautifully. You're very vulnerable in the truth that yeah, it hurt like hell. And yeah, it kind of rattles where you are, and how you see yourself in your life, when something that has been a part of you for so long falls away. And, you know, we experienced that in a lot of different parts of our lives. And I think that a lot of people don't give a lot of space to thinking about the value of their friendships and what they offer to their lives and how they're showing up. So that's why it was I just thought this is such a beautiful opportunity to talk with you. It's So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Now, moving forward, if you had a piece of advice for someone around how to be clear in your own friendships, what would you suggest to someone? Oh, that's a tough

one, I think I would start honestly, with figuring out what your love language is, because and apply that to your friendships and think about, you know, what expectations you might have had, or you know, the ways in which you want to be appreciated in your friendships. And then I would say, Take stock of, you know, the friends you have around you then and you know, if there are some friendships where you've been having a mismatch in expectations, I think just approach that friend and sit down, maybe it's maybe it's a text message conversation to start. While that's not always ideal, it's sometimes a, an easy olive branch to extend to kind of take the temperature of the situation for maybe a larger conversation later over, you know, coffee or dinner. But if you're thinking about having those conversations, you know, the worst thing that's gonna happen, you know, the absolute worst is you're gonna lose that friendship. But as we were saying that the best thing that could happen is that friendship could really blossom into something a lot more fulfilling for you. And, you know, when you look at the cost benefit, I think, you know, that benefit, you know, would probably outweigh that cost, and really what the likelihood is that you would lose that friendship over that kind of a conversation.

And I think that's really important too. In some of my friendships, I've had many hard conversations, and some of those conversations have led to a falling away. Kind of just a gentle letting go. And that's been a, you know, that's also a hard thing is, is just letting go and realizing that, that that friendship has maybe just run it season. And then in other situations, I've had very, very hard conversations with friends. You know, and and really, it's been a, a heart bearing, exposing really raw space to be in and kind of together decision making around is this a friendship? I want to fight for I want to invest in, I love so deeply that I need that, that I want to hold on to it, and I want us to work through it. Or where are we each in that journey? Right? Like, it really is about that communication piece. But more than anything, like you said, it's that awareness first and foremost, like who are you in this friendship? What are your expectations? And then being able to notice how the other person shows up to right? Yep, absolutely. Yeah. So beautiful. So beautiful. Charlene, thank you so much for being here and sharing with our trifecta of joy audience as we talked about friendship. I am so grateful for you, and I will make sure that everyone has a link to your fabulous newsletter. It is absolutely awesome. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for having me. I was really honored that you asked and really enjoy being here.