00:00:06Because a funny thing happened to me on the way to record this interview. Someone told me it's not even possible to have empathy and a profitable business.

00:00:52Curry rice is the founder of red slice a consultancy that advises entrepreneurs startups and fast-growth companies on how to build an irresistible Brand Story and authentically connect with customers. She is a keynote speaker who regularly speaks to audiences on marketing and building and engaging Brand Story that drives growth and impact. She is the author of The empathy Edge. Brandon Bass fix for small business and the juicy Guide Series for entrepreneurs, Maria started her career as a Management Consultant with Accenture and went on to build marketing and brand strategies for multiple companies, including Discovery Communications monster.com business objects, now ASAP and many other startups, and Technology leaders before starting her own business. As a brand strategist. She has work with Brands such as Microsoft, Dropbox alert, X & G S K as well as many smaller leaders in niche.

00:02:01Maria understands the power of empathy at both of brand and personal level in 2008, six months after launching her business. She suffered a ruptured brain aneurysm almost killed her her humerus and heartfelt Memoir about surviving. This Health crisis. Rebooting. My brain has received worldwide. Praise Maria lives with her husband young son, and precocious black lab mutt in the San Francisco Bay area, please welcome Maria to the show.

00:03:32What are you good at? Right? Like what's your sweet spot and what are your clients care about? And so I would often get in this conversation about authenticity, which I hate that word. But this idea of how do you walk your talk? When you're presenting your brand. And in the last few years, especially with sort of like what's been going on in our world and our country and things that we're seeing a behaviors that we're seeing. I had a lot of clients and colleagues coming to me about, how do I use my brand and my platform for good? How do I create more empathy in the world? Or I personally am feeling really a pathetic and I don't know what to do with that empathy. Like, how can I put it into action? So there was sort of this this thread of how people want to appear. And how they want to connect with their customers with this, very deeply personal longing. I guess would be a word for wanting to make a difference in the world and settled.

00:05:26Call the empathy Edge that pulled together all that research, the date of the case studies. And also, what was important to me with the offer practical actionable habits and treat for people. So what do I do to try to become a more empathetic leader? What do I do to try to create a more empathetic brand and a better connection with my customers? And that's how we got to where we are today and the empathy Edge was born. So long round-about story know and it's awesome and I get as you could imagine because you're in marketing. So, you know, a lot of people in marketing want to be on the podcast and I'm usually fending them off because so many people want to skip ahead with small businesses into things that they really don't need. You know, I go around and teach local small businesses about the foundational pieces. So I don't want to bring something on my show who's going to be like you need clickfunnels and like going all the way into these other programs. Because I think things like empathy

00:07:26Do it, just this idea of what is the mindset? And what is it? What is the foundation of what I have to do to be this thing in the world and to present myself as as this way to legitimately walk my talk. And I think that that's great and also as a recovering, Peace Corps, volunteer empathy is such a baseline for everything that I do. And then when I talk to somebody, as I was leaving my co-working space today to come interview you she's like, yeah and thirsty but like can you really make money doing that? And one of the things I really appreciate do empathy. I love that. That's great. You're doing empathy and that's a problem right there. Yeah. It's a business and you touch upon that in the book and the people who are like the empathy hate I guess and then but then I try to be a little bit.

00:09:26Right. Here's your, the case studies of companies that are operationalizing empathy, meaning they're they're not only leading with this philosophy, but they have policies and practices that supported they hire based on it. Their leaders operate based on empathy like their everyday, they're showing empathy to them to each other and to their customers. And oh, by the way, they're boosting Innovation. Their increasing productivity, their retaining, their top talent there in some cases increasing their Market valuation in stock price. So anyone who tells me, what does that have to do with business? I say everything right? If you even if you don't call it and pissy if you're not attuned, even lets even forget about the internal rate, like if you have a team or whatever, let's even focus on an entrepreneur who says, I don't have a scene. It's just me. If you are not a pathetic with your customers and clients, you're dead.

00:11:04Absolutely.

00:12:06Shear products and services, you know what you do with your marketing consultant. For example, what's your biggest struggle with Market? What do you wish you had what's been most successful for you? And one of the ways in the book that I talked about, from a marketing perspective to be empathetic is when you have those conversations with your actual customers or with personas of your ideal, customers is document the words that they're actually using. So we get in a murder of our own way of saying things, right, in a vacuum of, this is what I want to communicate to you, but when a customer verbalizes the need and verbalizes what they want, use those words in your marketing and sales messaging and then all the sudden, your customer prospective customer, read that and goes, oh my gosh. She's reading my mind. Like, that's exactly what I am is because they said it. So I need to wait weeks, for example, with my business and I talk about myself. I am a brand strategist.

00:13:53That's so beautiful. Thank you. Honestly, I mean it seems so simple, but we all struggle with it. Like I struggle with it too. So, I mean, we do I think oftentimes what all of us do as we talked about what we do in the way that we talk to our friends. Who do what we do.

00:14:34One of the heart is not the heart of embassy, it's one of them is listening and taking that in and then showing people that you've heard them for sure. And that's actually one of the, one of the traits of Highly and they call it highly empathic people, is that they're very curious and they're good listeners. So, the idea that was one of the tips I have in the leadership section for folks to flex their own, empathy muscle is to practice presents, cuz that's the only way you're going to be an active listener or is to be in the room when you're in the room and not checking your phone and not trying to think of other things, but also to be curious and ask questions. So when you get when you get in a conversation, whether it's with a colleague, or whether it's with a customer and let's say there's a disconnect there.

00:16:05All right. So, believe me. Like I'm I'm a redhead. I'm Italian. Like I, I can talk and I I have to be very mindful again. That's where I started. Bring the practicing presents into it to force myself to be in the conversation and and put aside, what I think I want to say, and if I'm champing at the bit, maybe I just write it down so that I can fully take in what someone else is trying to say.

00:16:58Let me see if I heard you, right? Exactly. And then I say it and then I'm and then if I have something else like a question or suggestion, I've been, I always say you might consider, exactly, you know, it's not really about me putting something on, you know, cuz that's part of listening for me is like, you might consider this and then I kind of wait to see how that, Lance, Lance. Yeah, you know what I love about the book. Absolutely. Are you have these great list and then resources that people can go to play practice this? Yeah. So what's the intention for that for people? How do you envision people taking that out into the world? When I started this project about three years ago. It was very important to me, not to write another book about the theory of empathy that because I am not an empathy expert per se, but I feel like I am now but there's a lot of people that are better attitude and I'm also not a social science.

00:18:58You don't have to try all of them all at once. If you're really trying to cultivate your empathy and Bill flex, your empathy, muscles that phrase I keep using try one or two, like, for 2 weeks. See how it changes, the conversation, see how it changes your mindset, your perspective. I was able to, in a few of the, the chapters to really dig into some specific. How to find common ground with someone who disagrees with you, or how to run a meeting and an empathetic fashion. So, a couple places I did take a little bit of a tangent to get very detailed and and give some good tips if you will understand at areas, but the whole goal before this book was even, and he said it was just like an idea in my head was

00:20:44I was talking to someone the other day and I said, it's kind of like being pregnant. Like you're either pregnant or you're not. So if you try to be empathetic and I'm doing air quotes here and if people can't see, once you do it, you've done it. Like, whatever reason made, you be empathetic, or have an empathetic mindset or perform a compassion to act, you still done it. So it's going to change your feedback with the world, and I seen it an accident where it can transform you from the outside in.

00:21:46You can start with gratitude in the office so you can start with it at home and it's going to spill over into both, go into the other and I find that to be the case with a lot of these soft skills because I just translate in and I hate the term Scott soft skills. But yeah, I know cuz it seems to kind of be little it and I really think that and I would like to get your take on this.

00:23:00when I looked into,

00:24:04It's the right thing to do, but their definition of of diversity is is expanded to even include cognitive diversity. And this is they, they are not just looking for sort of like checking the box of. Yep. There's a woman here. Yes, there's a person of color. Yes, there is, you know, someone is transgender they're looking at. How does the organization or is there a consumer? How does the brand harness the various perspectives and viewpoints. Are they actually listening? Do they actually act on what they're hearing? So, so they're there. Looking at it much more about, like, what are you taking action on by bringing all these people together. And what I, what I like to say is sort of diversity, can't be effective on organization and reap. All the benefits that people say you get when you get the varsity, unless there's a, because of the way, you have just a bunch of different people sitting around table staring at each other. Just agreeing with each other because I can understand each other.

00:25:19Absolutely. An and I will say that because I want to start shifting into the brand and how empathy helps with Brands. But I wanted to kind of put a pin in this because as we talked about Brands, my assumption is that the younger Generations are also more empathetic in their branding and showing what good they're doing in the world and the one thing I'm not sure if it's in your book or not, is that the younger Generations are also more entrepreneurial than we are. So they're going to be dominating the market and if we don't learn how to be more empathetic and our branding, I'm ready to be missing out. Not only on the younger consumers, but losing out to the younger generation of entrepreneurs, who can be our partners are supporters. And also competitors. I didn't necessarily stumble across any research about, whether there's an increase in entrepreneurship, but there's definitely data that shows that that those Generations care more about a brand being empathetic is there.

00:27:19That you can't just put me on slap. This coat of empathy pain over your business and expect that to be sustainable. And that's why it's not about just these one-off actions of empathy. Like, oh, we're empathetic, because we donate once a year to local food bank, that's going to show the rooms bedok. It's about a mindset and an environment that the organization weather is one or a hundred thousand, people creates to Foster empathy, Foster empathy, through its policies, its practices. The kind of people they hire the kind of customer service that delivers you create swear this fertile ground for sustainable empathy that that that can go on and on and on for years and years and years. And that's how you create genuine empathy and avoid that veneer, but anyone who thinks it's just going to be, you know, a couple of token activities here and there. And then then, you know, you're fine after that, you know, you can treat your employees badly. You can have a really horrible customer service.

00:29:15She's looking at our audience as people not just number of subscribers or number of followers. And I think if you have that mindset even as a solo printer that can just make things usually successful for you and help you avoid being seen as like, oh, this is just something they're out there pouting that they're empathetic. It's sort of. Like, if you have to be telling people your empathetic all the time. It's like someone who goes around going on, hip are not tell people that, but it's through your actions and it's through your your Mantra. Yeah, you're making me laugh because when I say that, I'm like, oh, I'm hit, but I'm saying it because I know I'm not cuz you're so you're being snarky and I love that knowledge like a hundred percent that might be hip some places that you can get your Jeep seat. So it's okay like, I love it.

00:30:38With my audience, so when it comes to branding and being a pathetic, like, how does how do how do you share some of the things that maybe, if you're just, if you just operate in that lane, you don't think about even telling other people about it. Other people also like all of the Outreach for example, with Alessandra story, all the Personal Touch as she offers all of the email response is that generates word-of-mouth for her, that's going to make someone tell their friends. How you should follow this person. You should listen to their podcast. You should go buy it there course because you don't, you don't want to be the one to digging. I mean, you should I couldn't deliver that message. People should have pride in what they do and talk about what they do. But the great thing about being an empathetic brand, is that when you truly are in pathetic and you're doing all these things, people will spread the word for you. Even the largest company. Is there things that they've done that? They didn't even intend to be like a marketing promotion and it it,

00:32:17Okay, cool. Good for you. I'll take, you know, I mean, I just think there are a lot of people that are probably doing things in the things. I have to tell people about it. Like so let's let's talk about that a little bit, then how amputee maybe shows up in your branding?

00:33:33Asistencia and Clarity over time. So that's the biggest thing as a lining on your mission and your story and being consistent. Another way is

00:34:42As an example, you know, when you get email subscribers, which is something a lot of us are our building lists. And and, but I try and I'm not, I'm not always good at it. But when I, I will pick sort of two or three new subscribers at random each week, and send them a personalized message. And usually, they'll write me back and they'll say, this is what my specific struggle with is. And then I might Point them to some resources and I'll be like, no, this is not a bother at. This is really Maria like that and reminding yourself that it's not just numbers. There's people behind those numbers. I think is really important, especially in this Digital World, same thing with if you are responding to, you know, if you're a larger business in your responding, back to a customer service email or a complaint, how do you do that? Are you doing it in a way where it's very understanding? And they're like, wow, I'm really sorry that happened to you. That must have been horrible. Like what can we do to make this, right? Or you standing behind very rigid policies and procedures?

00:36:42Braiding day today. Yeah, I think that one of the things that I talk about a fair amount is that as a solo printer, you don't want to shoot all over yourself. So it's like, I love that. You can use it as free. Guess I should do this and then all the sudden you're worse than you. No pick. Your least favorite cable company to work with. I mean, cuz I think they're the worst by the worst. I mean, the worst, which is why they're failing, right? They never treat their long-term customers as well as they treat the new ones. They don't reach out and actually help you, they give you horrible Windows to work. With is very rigid. So I think that a lot of times people think that, that's what they have to do in order to be successful and for me.

00:38:06And again, we just I think at the embassy in the workplace, empathy in your business, just comes down to again. You don't want people to be like getting your services for free. I'm not implying that but just remember that people are human and remember that

00:38:58Are you don't want to get in the habit of always giving people a past. But like, it just seems like our first reaction is always. So like now and then like will know you're going to have to pay all over again to schedule another meeting each other out, like, you know, find out what happens. And if you don't have a great personal story about that and not about 10 years ago. I I suffered a ruptured brain aneurysm and was pretty life-altering. I rode home have more about it, but the day that I collapsed and basically almost died. I was supposed to have a call with a potential new client.

00:40:42And I didn't coin that. I can't like cops to that. But yeah, it's the Platinum rule for sure. Yeah, I know. But, you know, we always talk about the golden rule about do unto others as you would have done unto you and I'm 60 invites, you to take it a step further, because it is about seeing things from the other person's perspective. And so the Platinum rule is do unto others as they would have done unto them. So it's about actually trying to put yourself in the position of that person. And what is it that they need. What is it that they would want? And this comes out so clearly and studies. I don't know if you've ever read the book drive by Daniel pink. I mentioned it briefly in the book, but it's it's like 10 years old now or so, but he talks about the surprising things that motivate people and he did. All this research has a New York Times bestselling author and he did all this research. It doesn't seem first shattering now, but at the time it was like not everybody's mode.

00:41:52Might not always be the motivation. That makes someone perform and same thing with customers. Right? If customers aren't acting your natural, inclination, might be able. Let me lower my price on a discount and not might not be with motivating people. So you got to look through the lens of the other side and say, what, what is it? That's the issue here. What's going to actually be the carrot for that person and that is a much more empathetic way to look at the situation. Then to think like, this is what I would want. So course, naturally. That's what John would want. Right? Absolutely. And it's, it's hard, it's hard to do that sometimes. And yet, I think that's how we build better relationships into your point that you made at the beginning. When you don't know what that is, ask ya like. We're still afraid to ask our customers. What would what they want or so afraid to ask?

00:43:44And the solo printer went down this entire Rabbit Hole of assumptions about why that happened and ended up like losing the client over it, because the client had something, you know, really big happened in their personal life and the assumptions were kind of went bizarre after a while about why about why they're not responding, you know, it was kind of like paying attention to when you're telling yourself a story. What's going on, you know, instead of just saying hey,

00:44:31And then wait and then wait. Yeah, exactly. That's what we spend. Right? And I've been guilty. Like, I'm raising my hand. I've been guilty of it too, and I will tell you this, if we have time a real quick story about a partnership that I had with somebody, I've never met. I was introduced to someone over email and they wanted to do a web training for a private course that they were doing. So we had an agreement. We had a contract, I was going to provide some content and things that my Spidey Sense started going off. There was just a weird thing with the person would like to do something and then didn't get back to me and you will like I'm putting it all together and then getting ready to go on a 10-day holiday to the UK with family. And so I was kind of like, okay, like all the stuff was happening and I started to get a little weirded out by it.

00:46:23Absolutely sending the email that I wanted a sandwich was, like you.

00:46:59absolutely, and I

00:48:04Compassion and integrity and be ambitious and be competitive as hell and you know, and leave the market. And so that's what I want to leave people with is that you don't have to choose. You don't have to choose integrity and compassion over cash flow and Revenue.

00:48:58Hey, ladies, I know you're working so hard to grow your business. A business that aligns with your vision and your values, a business that support your lifestyle. And I know it's been a bumpy ride. Sometimes. I see it all the time. Women overspending on shiny objects and Magic pills because they're tired of not seeing results. Business decisions based on short-term gains without a critical eye, where the future most heartbreaking of all women who walk away because it's just too damn hard. The good news is you're not alone. You have support all around you. If you're ready to take joyful action on your biggest business goals, if you need strategy, accountability, and a pass to get you exactly where you want to go. Let me know because I'm here to support you as a consultant and strategist. You can fill out a quick application to work together at Jen mcfarlane.com ready.