What is your risk appetite as a leader?

It's well evidenced that high-performing teams are those who are willing to take collective risk. But it's not easy to get to that place, especially if it's outside of your comfort zone.

In this episode, we chat all things risk and why your approach to it matters. We discuss:

• how we define risks and how our approaches vary
• risk awareness versus risk-taking
• how your DISC profile - or preferences - can affect how you view and take risks
• the requirement of psychological safety in building risk appetite
• what good risk taking looks like
• how to identify where you sit on a risk scale
• how to become less risk averse
• tackling risky behaviours in others without being a killjoy
• getting alignment with your Board and taking people with you
• embracing your inner risk-taker

Resources and helpful links

• Surrounded by idiots by Thomas Erikson

About How to Take the Lead

How to Take the Lead is a show exploring all things leadership.

Every episode we explore a different part of life as a leader, questioning everything we've ever learnt and sharing a few of our own stories along the way.

If you want to learn how to do leadership your own way, join hosts Lee Griffith and Carrie-Ann Wade as they debunk myths, tackle stereotypes and generally put the leadership world to rights.

Get involved

If you enjoyed this episode why not subscribe to the podcast. We would love it if you left us a rating or review and feel free to share the link to this episode with anyone else you think would find it interesting.

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Plus if you want to work with us to challenge and change leadership in your organisation get in touch by dropping us an email howtotakethelead@gmail.com or DM us on the socials.

Speaker: 00:00:00

Carrie-Ann Wade: I love it. That is a good and really practical

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thing that people can just start doing tomorrow or whenever after

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they've listened to this episode. So I really love that

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one. I might well do it myself. Actually,

Lee Griffith: 00:00:10

I think you should

Lee Griffith: 00:00:18

welcome to how to take the leap the podcast where we challenge

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So hello to everyone who is watching us on

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listening to us. Hello. Just listening to us those who listen

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to you are very welcome. And that is a noble pursuit you are

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doing to take no we don't we don't

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You're not just a listener. I feel valued member of our to

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call it over there. On each episode, we give little extra

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sneaky bonus stuff and prompts and things we haven't been able

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to talk about. Usually what it's one of us in a bit of a

Lee Griffith: 00:01:53

reflective mode, having come away thinking about what we've

Lee Griffith: 00:01:59

been talking about and what the other person said. So we share

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our thoughts over there. So you are very welcome to join us all

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the set of links that you need will all be down here somewhere

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or in the show notes if you are listening on to the podcast app

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of choice. Did I rescue myself?

Lee Griffith: 00:02:16

Carrie-Ann Wade: You did your best Yeah, you dug yourself back

Lee Griffith: 00:02:18

out of the hole you started digging well done.

Lee Griffith: 00:02:22

How are you this fine, fine day carry on? Hi,

Lee Griffith: 00:02:26

Carrie-Ann Wade: I'm good. Thank you very much Lee. I'm in a sort

Lee Griffith: 00:02:30

of I did not not reflective headspace but in a like a feel a

Lee Griffith: 00:02:33

bit like oh, I need to you know been doing a lot of thinking.

Lee Griffith: 00:02:37

What's what's coming up next for me? How do I need to get on top

Lee Griffith: 00:02:41

of the things that I need to achieve as a leader and in the

Lee Griffith: 00:02:44

workplace? So yeah, I feel like I've so far had a good week.

Lee Griffith: 00:02:48

Thanks very much. How

Lee Griffith: 00:02:49

are you? Was it was just one episode. You were

Lee Griffith: 00:02:52

so in awe with my ripping up

Lee Griffith: 00:02:55

Carrie-Ann Wade: well, it didn't take me it did take me a week to

Lee Griffith: 00:02:58

pick my chin up off the floor when you said you'd Richard D

Lee Griffith: 00:03:00

list up. So you know, obviously after I got over that shock, I

Lee Griffith: 00:03:03

needed a good sugary tea. To sort myself out. I thought Yeah,

Lee Griffith: 00:03:08

why not start disrupting your own Southie you're thinking what

Lee Griffith: 00:03:12

you what you want out of life as a leader. So yeah, it's all been

Lee Griffith: 00:03:15

good. Thank you. How

Unknown: 00:03:16

about you influenced?

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Carrie-Ann Wade: You are now officially an influencer. So I'm

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gonna say I'm

Lee Griffith: 00:03:24

good. I'm good. I'm, I'm yeah, I'm enjoying the

Lee Griffith: 00:03:27

vibe of 2024. So I was about to say 2025 Obviously, I'm not in

Lee Griffith: 00:03:32

the future. I'm enjoying the vibe of 2024. And good. Just

Lee Griffith: 00:03:38

yeah, I find finding my feet finding my foot in front of

Lee Griffith: 00:03:41

things up in the air a little bit, but also not really doing

Lee Griffith: 00:03:45

any of that either. Because consistency and persistence are

Lee Griffith: 00:03:50

my buzzwords for this year. So like

Lee Griffith: 00:03:54

Carrie-Ann Wade: now I think we're well into the year now and

Lee Griffith: 00:03:56

I'm yet to think what my word of the year is going to be. So

Lee Griffith: 00:03:59

that'll be my reflection for after this episode.

Lee Griffith: 00:04:02

Okay, well, we today's episode feels a bit like

Lee Griffith: 00:04:06

a natural extension to the discussion of last week, which

Lee Griffith: 00:04:12

was all around disruptive leadership and this one I want

Lee Griffith: 00:04:16

to explore the topic of taking risks and I think it's one of

Lee Griffith: 00:04:20

those areas that can be really divisive because some people

Lee Griffith: 00:04:24

absolutely love taking risks living on the edge that's it

Lee Griffith: 00:04:31

well i By

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Carrie-Ann Wade: the way, I'm not going to throw myself out of

Lee Griffith: 00:04:34

a plane or anything like that anytime soon, but it might give

Lee Griffith: 00:04:37

you some some indication to the level of risk I'm willing to

Lee Griffith: 00:04:40

take at least in my personal life.

Lee Griffith: 00:04:42

But others I think it brings out if fear and I was

Lee Griffith: 00:04:49

gonna say as you rushed into the bathroom but after last week's

Lee Griffith: 00:04:51

episode I'm gonna keep don't go there. Don't go there.

Lee Griffith: 00:04:56

Carrie-Ann Wade: change tack change tack quick,

Lee Griffith: 00:04:58

you know bring brings you out Hyves that let's

Lee Griffith: 00:05:01

let's, let's say that instead. So it's I think. So I think

Lee Griffith: 00:05:06

there's there's that element of how people react to the thought

Lee Griffith: 00:05:09

of taking a risk. And then I think there's the element of

Lee Griffith: 00:05:12

what people see as risk can vary as well. So inherently, the job

Lee Griffith: 00:05:19

you do might have high risk. I mean, we've both come from used

Lee Griffith: 00:05:23

to work in, but we both have a health service background, for

Lee Griffith: 00:05:27

example, where the decisions that people make and the actions

Lee Griffith: 00:05:31

that people take, have a life and death consequence. But other

Lee Griffith: 00:05:37

risks could be financial, reputational, legal, there's all

Lee Griffith: 00:05:42

sorts of ramifications of the decisions and actions that you

Lee Griffith: 00:05:45

take. And so I wanted to discuss this topic today, because I

Lee Griffith: 00:05:50

think it builds on the areas that we touched on last week

Lee Griffith: 00:05:55

around disruption, but also, because how you manage risk

Lee Griffith: 00:06:02

directly affects the performance, but you know, your

Lee Griffith: 00:06:05

performance, your team's performance, your organizational

Lee Griffith: 00:06:09

performance, and high performing organizations are those who are

Lee Griffith: 00:06:15

willing to take risks. But how do you get comfortable with

Lee Griffith: 00:06:20

being that type of leader? When do you know if a risk is worth

Lee Griffith: 00:06:24

taking? And what if you're just too risky kind of person? Yeah.

Lee Griffith: 00:06:30

So that's, that's what I want to explore in today's conversation.

Lee Griffith: 00:06:34

So kicking us off Karianne so that everybody is starting in

Lee Griffith: 00:06:38

the same place? How have you defined risk in your career?

Lee Griffith: 00:06:45

Carrie-Ann Wade: I guess this is quite an interesting one for me.

Lee Griffith: 00:06:47

And where I started, when I was thinking about this question was

Lee Griffith: 00:06:53

risk being about weighing up the potential gains, or the

Lee Griffith: 00:06:58

potential good, that could be caused through something versus

Lee Griffith: 00:07:02

the harm? So what's the potential gain versus the

Lee Griffith: 00:07:07

potential harm of doing or not doing something, sometimes it's

Lee Griffith: 00:07:12

actually about making a choice not to do something. And that

Lee Griffith: 00:07:14

can be as risky as choosing to do something. So that was kind

Lee Griffith: 00:07:19

of where my head first went to, in thinking about that question.

Lee Griffith: 00:07:23

And then I guess I kind of bought it back down to me, and

Lee Griffith: 00:07:27

my own career. And from that perspective, I did reflect

Lee Griffith: 00:07:32

actually, and I feel like from a career point of view, I have

Lee Griffith: 00:07:36

probably been quite open to risk, because I've been very

Lee Griffith: 00:07:41

open to new opportunities to pushing myself outside of my

Lee Griffith: 00:07:46

comfort zone, for going for things and doing things that I

Lee Griffith: 00:07:52

might not have done, if I was more risk adverse. I'd also say

Lee Griffith: 00:07:57

that I'm, well, you will know this for sure and say, Well,

Lee Griffith: 00:08:00

other listeners, probably. But I'm also not a perfectionist,

Lee Griffith: 00:08:05

which I think sometimes means that I might be a bit more

Lee Griffith: 00:08:09

spontaneous or a bit quicker to perhaps put things out there

Lee Griffith: 00:08:13

before they are fully formed in terms of an idea, a way of

Lee Griffith: 00:08:17

working something that I'm hoping to achieve. And I would

Lee Griffith: 00:08:21

say that especially so in, on the business side of my career,

Lee Griffith: 00:08:26

and in the collaborations that I'm part of, and I feel like I

Lee Griffith: 00:08:29

do that almost as a way of forcing myself to do the things

Lee Griffith: 00:08:34

that I might otherwise feel were too risky. Because if I've

Lee Griffith: 00:08:38

declared them in public, then I need to be accountable for that

Lee Griffith: 00:08:41

and, and make them happen. So that's kind of been one of the

Lee Griffith: 00:08:45

ways that I've dealt with risk in terms of risk to kind of my

Lee Griffith: 00:08:49

development and growth as a coach, as a leader in in my

Lee Griffith: 00:08:52

career. And I have to say, that personally, as I've progressed

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in my career, I think I felt more able to take risks, the

Lee Griffith: 00:09:04

more I thought about what's the worst thing that can happen. If

Lee Griffith: 00:09:07

I do or don't do this, what is the worst possible outcome? And

Lee Griffith: 00:09:12

as long as to me, the level of harm isn't incomprehensible or

Lee Griffith: 00:09:17

dangerous or going to cause death and as you said, working

Lee Griffith: 00:09:21

in healthcare, a lot of the time is a life or death kind of

Lee Griffith: 00:09:24

sector to work in. If it's not dangerous then for me there's

Lee Griffith: 00:09:28

always been something about why why would I not try this to see

Lee Griffith: 00:09:32

what happens? I guess the one area as I was reflecting that

Lee Griffith: 00:09:37

I'm probably I probably am more risk adverse to you than other

Lee Griffith: 00:09:42

areas there has definitely been when it's come to money. So

Lee Griffith: 00:09:46

things that have been finance related so whether that salaries

Lee Griffith: 00:09:50

so personal to me or to other people that I'm working with in

Lee Griffith: 00:09:54

my team, whether that's about budget that's been the area

Lee Griffith: 00:09:58

probably where I've been is kind of laissez faire about things.

Lee Griffith: 00:10:02

And I reflected on whether or not that's been because a lot of

Lee Griffith: 00:10:06

my career has been in the public sector. And for me, that's other

Lee Griffith: 00:10:10

people's money. So that's a tap of the taxpayers money that I'm

Lee Griffith: 00:10:15

having to be responsible and accountable for. So has that

Lee Griffith: 00:10:18

made me think that the risk, there probably needs to be more

Lee Griffith: 00:10:21

measured and weighed up in a different way? So that was kind

Lee Griffith: 00:10:25

of the rambling thoughts that came to mind when, when I was

Lee Griffith: 00:10:29

thinking about defining risk in my career today, and I'm not

Lee Griffith: 00:10:33

sure if that is where you were expecting some of that to go.

Lee Griffith: 00:10:36

But that is what kind of came into my head,

Lee Griffith: 00:10:38

it was definitely a few things that I want to

Lee Griffith: 00:10:40

unpack as we carry on with the conversation. But to bring it

Lee Griffith: 00:10:44

back to a an organizational level. Why do you think it's

Lee Griffith: 00:10:49

important for leaders to be more aware of risk and taste taking

Lee Griffith: 00:10:54

risks? And I do say this as two separate things, because I think

Lee Griffith: 00:10:59

that they are, I think you have risks in what you do day to day.

Lee Griffith: 00:11:04

Yeah. But then you've got those bigger strategic risks related

Lee Griffith: 00:11:08

to decisions and actions that you you, you will have to take

Lee Griffith: 00:11:11

as a leader to take an organization forward.

Lee Griffith: 00:11:15

Carrie-Ann Wade: Yeah, I think you're right to separate the

Lee Griffith: 00:11:16

two, because there's the inherent risk that comes through

Lee Griffith: 00:11:19

leading an organization, whatever that organization might

Lee Griffith: 00:11:22

look like for your organization, a lot of which might be outside

Lee Griffith: 00:11:26

of your own control. So risk can happen, because something is

Lee Griffith: 00:11:30

happening in society that is causing that potential risk to

Lee Griffith: 00:11:34

your organization that, you know, going back to finances

Lee Griffith: 00:11:38

that might be a cost of living crisis, and what's the risk to

Lee Griffith: 00:11:41

your organization of operating in that space, versus the risks

Lee Griffith: 00:11:46

that you might decide to take some progress your organization

Lee Griffith: 00:11:52

to respond to something to make an improvement. So I definitely

Lee Griffith: 00:11:56

think that separation from an organizational viewpoint of risk

Lee Griffith: 00:12:00

is an important one to take. I think in terms of risk, as an

Lee Griffith: 00:12:06

organization, it's important for you to be aware of and

Lee Griffith: 00:12:10

considering risk, because it will be about how do the things

Lee Griffith: 00:12:13

that are happening? What is the potential impact they will have

Lee Griffith: 00:12:18

on our organization? And is there an opportunity to ready

Lee Griffith: 00:12:21

ourselves for any of that and prepare for it. So whether

Lee Griffith: 00:12:24

that's in an emergency planning capacity, whether that's in a

Lee Griffith: 00:12:28

business continuity space, whether that's in succession

Lee Griffith: 00:12:31

planning, what you know, whatever those risks might look

Lee Griffith: 00:12:35

like? Are you as an organization ready to take action if you need

Lee Griffith: 00:12:40

to, to help mitigate some of that risk and make that risk,

Lee Griffith: 00:12:43

have less of a negative impact for your organization? I guess

Lee Griffith: 00:12:47

in terms of the other element about sort of risk management

Lee Griffith: 00:12:52

and that feeling a bit different. There's something for

Lee Griffith: 00:12:54

me there about what's your appetite as an organization and

Lee Griffith: 00:12:58

leadership team, to take him risk. If that is going to help

Lee Griffith: 00:13:03

you progress, your strategy and the direction of travel, you

Lee Griffith: 00:13:05

want your organization to go in because I guess there's that,

Lee Griffith: 00:13:08

you know, the age old adage isn't there that if you do

Lee Griffith: 00:13:12

everything, if you keep doing everything the same, you can't

Lee Griffith: 00:13:14

expect a different outcome. So if as an organization, you're

Lee Griffith: 00:13:17

hoping for a different outcome, there might be a level of risk

Lee Griffith: 00:13:21

that your leadership team, your board, your organization needs

Lee Griffith: 00:13:25

to be willing to take. And you need to have had conversations

Lee Griffith: 00:13:29

about that, so that you're actually making decisions, from

Lee Griffith: 00:13:32

a place where you all understand each other's point of view

Lee Griffith: 00:13:35

around how you're going to be forward. And

Lee Griffith: 00:13:38

as you mentioned earlier, there's there's also

Lee Griffith: 00:13:40

the decision making around if we do nothing, we take no action

Lee Griffith: 00:13:44

that in and of itself, awareness of risk because organizations if

Lee Griffith: 00:13:50

they don't progress, they don't stay still definitely they go

Lee Griffith: 00:13:54

backwards in many ways. So there is that thing around, yes, we

Lee Griffith: 00:13:59

might find comfort in keeping doing what we've always done.

Lee Griffith: 00:14:02

And this is why there's that link with the disruptive

Lee Griffith: 00:14:05

leadership and discussion we had last week. But you need to have

Lee Griffith: 00:14:11

that awareness that that no action has risk as much as

Lee Griffith: 00:14:15

taking an action or a decision. Yeah. Sorry that.

Lee Griffith: 00:14:23

Carrie-Ann Wade: We wait for me to respond because

Lee Griffith: 00:14:26

I absolutely agree with you intends to go like I

Lee Griffith: 00:14:29

say something. You then like bounce off of it. We interact,

Lee Griffith: 00:14:34

but

Lee Griffith: 00:14:35

Carrie-Ann Wade: I just I was because I agreed with you. And I

Lee Griffith: 00:14:37

was thinking oh yeah, Lee's right there. And then all right.

Lee Griffith: 00:14:40

Sorry. I was I was mulling over what you were saying. And then

Lee Griffith: 00:14:43

my silence was consent as it I agree with what I agree with the

Lee Griffith: 00:14:47

point that you've just made sorry, Lee.

Lee Griffith: 00:14:50

That's fine. That's fine. I'm only trying to

Lee Griffith: 00:14:52

run a bloody plus podcast there.

Lee Griffith: 00:15:00

I'm so one of the things that I do with my clients are disc

Lee Griffith: 00:15:06

assessments which people might have heard. And it's a

Lee Griffith: 00:15:09

psychometric profiling tool that I find really helpful to

Lee Griffith: 00:15:14

understand communication preferences, and how teams work

Lee Griffith: 00:15:18

with each other and how individuals react in certain

Lee Griffith: 00:15:21

situations, particularly in such situations of stress. And I know

Lee Griffith: 00:15:26

you've read the book surrounded by idiots, other people might

Lee Griffith: 00:15:30

have read it to you. And if you have, you'll be familiar with

Lee Griffith: 00:15:32

the different color types that they use, which are the same

Lee Griffith: 00:15:36

colors that we use in disc. So what's clear if you've done the

Lee Griffith: 00:15:41

test, or if you've read the book is that people will naturally

Lee Griffith: 00:15:45

have certain types of preferences or strengths or

Lee Griffith: 00:15:49

things that they'll call on in certain areas. And then they'll

Lee Griffith: 00:15:53

have to learn how to lean into the upper areas. And as we

Lee Griffith: 00:15:57

always say, like any strength becomes a weakness if overuse,

Lee Griffith: 00:15:59

so you have to learn how to balance them all. So in desk in

Lee Griffith: 00:16:04

the kind of colors, a D, a red tie, is someone who's pretty

Lee Griffith: 00:16:09

directive, they like to get on and take action, they're more

Lee Griffith: 00:16:13

likely likely to feel really comfortable to take that risk.

Lee Griffith: 00:16:17

Or they'll take actions actually, without even thinking

Lee Griffith: 00:16:20

through risks. And so, yeah, the positives of that type of person

Lee Griffith: 00:16:25

is that they tend to get stuff done, and get it done quickly.

Lee Griffith: 00:16:29

The flip side of that is that they can land an organization in

Lee Griffith: 00:16:32

hot water because they move without thinking too much. And

Lee Griffith: 00:16:36

then you've got, I suppose the opposite side of that, that

Lee Griffith: 00:16:39

personality type, which is a see a blue type, where they're

Lee Griffith: 00:16:44

careful and cautious, and they focus on the compliance. And

Lee Griffith: 00:16:49

they're going to be the ones that are super aware of risk.

Lee Griffith: 00:16:52

And they're likely to be trying to mitigate them as much as

Lee Griffith: 00:16:56

possible for the organization. So that means in their mind,

Lee Griffith: 00:16:59

they're protecting an organization, but to others that

Lee Griffith: 00:17:03

might be seen as stifling innovation. They might be

Lee Griffith: 00:17:08

delaying and slowing things down, it can be really

Lee Griffith: 00:17:10

frustrating for people having to interact with that. And

Lee Griffith: 00:17:13

obviously, you've got varying degrees of people that sit in

Lee Griffith: 00:17:16

between that. So I'm interested Karianne in what's been your

Lee Griffith: 00:17:21

approach to risk and how comfortable you've felt in

Lee Griffith: 00:17:26

taking I know, you've mentioned some of this already in your,

Lee Griffith: 00:17:30

your approach. But that was kind of the, for a personal lens,

Lee Griffith: 00:17:34

when you come to like leading an organization leading a function

Lee Griffith: 00:17:38

sitting around an executive table, how comfortable Have you

Lee Griffith: 00:17:42

felt? And what type of role Have you played, I suppose when

Lee Griffith: 00:17:45

looking at those types. So

Lee Griffith: 00:17:47

Carrie-Ann Wade: I think for me, there's definitely something

Lee Griffith: 00:17:50

about the importance of diverse thinking, and approaches. So I

Lee Griffith: 00:17:54

think what you've demonstrated with the couple of examples

Lee Griffith: 00:17:57

you've given us, we call them the red and the blue, and then

Lee Griffith: 00:18:00

at different ends of the spectrum, different extremes.

Lee Griffith: 00:18:04

What if I made you laugh about it?

Lee Griffith: 00:18:06

Because you said the red and the blue, I've

Lee Griffith: 00:18:08

instantly got an ear worm, which was a red car and a blue car,

Lee Griffith: 00:18:13

head on face.

Lee Griffith: 00:18:16

Carrie-Ann Wade: Nisha another nice reference. If the bingo

Lee Griffith: 00:18:19

cards out, there's, there's one for you that I was like, what if

Lee Griffith: 00:18:24

I said, Now the car in the blue car had erase? Absolutely. Do

Lee Griffith: 00:18:28

you remember that, and it's making me want to eat chocolate

Lee Griffith: 00:18:30

now. So I've tried not to be distracted by the idea of a

Lee Griffith: 00:18:34

Milky Way. So I think that was available. But I mean, if and if

Lee Griffith: 00:18:39

any of them would like to sponsor us feel free. I'm sorry,

Lee Griffith: 00:18:43

I've totally lost my train of thought. Now you have. I was

Lee Griffith: 00:18:48

thinking about the importance of that diverse mix of thinking and

Lee Griffith: 00:18:52

approach in your leadership team. So I'm not a red, and I'm

Lee Griffith: 00:18:57

not a blue, if I go by those kind of scores and descriptions

Lee Griffith: 00:19:02

in discourse surrounded by idiots. But it's important for

Lee Griffith: 00:19:05

me to have that mix in the team that I work in, because I think

Lee Griffith: 00:19:09

that's what leads to the best types of discussion and

Lee Griffith: 00:19:14

challenge around the risks that you might need to take as an

Lee Griffith: 00:19:17

organization. Because if you had a leadership team that was full

Lee Griffith: 00:19:21

of people who weren't really that bothered about the risk,

Lee Griffith: 00:19:23

and we're just going to crack on and do it that would be

Lee Griffith: 00:19:26

potentially hugely dangerous and damaging. If you had a

Lee Griffith: 00:19:29

leadership team in an organization that we're all

Lee Griffith: 00:19:32

people who were completely cautious and risk adverse, you'd

Lee Griffith: 00:19:34

probably never take a risk ever, and your organization would miss

Lee Griffith: 00:19:38

out. So I think we've mentioned in other episodes of the podcast

Lee Griffith: 00:19:42

that that diversity of thought and diversity of approach in a

Lee Griffith: 00:19:46

leadership team being really important. So I think the teams

Lee Griffith: 00:19:50

that I have seen operate is best the right way set the best teams

Lee Griffith: 00:19:56

I've seen in terms of considering and thinking about

Lee Griffith: 00:19:59

risks. have been the teams that do have that real mix in. So I

Lee Griffith: 00:20:05

see my role in a team often as the person who will provide some

Lee Griffith: 00:20:10

of that constructive challenge and hold the mirror up and say,

Lee Griffith: 00:20:14

Hang on a minute have, do we feel comfortable that we have

Lee Griffith: 00:20:17

considered everything here? And let's just do that check in. So

Lee Griffith: 00:20:22

I feel like that's where I've been in terms of being in some

Lee Griffith: 00:20:26

of these leadership teams. Some of the more challenging teams

Lee Griffith: 00:20:31

I've seen are those ones where the dominant approach and

Lee Griffith: 00:20:34

leadership style is, is one or the other, and nothing in

Lee Griffith: 00:20:38

between, actually. And so yeah, sorry, because I was still

Lee Griffith: 00:20:42

thinking about Milky Way, I'm not sure I'm sure I'm probably

Lee Griffith: 00:20:45

waffling now, but it's not full on risk all the time. And it's

Lee Griffith: 00:20:50

not playing it safe all the time. And the challenge, I think

Lee Griffith: 00:20:54

has been when you've just got a roomful of people who are very

Lee Griffith: 00:20:58

similar in terms of their type.

Lee Griffith: 00:21:00

Well, I was thinking, as you were talking

Lee Griffith: 00:21:02

through there, what I wrote down was psychological safety, and

Lee Griffith: 00:21:06

how much risk taking is an important outcome of having a

Lee Griffith: 00:21:17

psychologically safe organization. And again, if we

Lee Griffith: 00:21:20

go back to high performing organizations, performing teams,

Lee Griffith: 00:21:25

they have high levels of psychological safety, that they

Lee Griffith: 00:21:30

feel comfortable to challenge each other, in taking risks. And

Lee Griffith: 00:21:35

it's and it's not about them, you know, shouting down each

Lee Griffith: 00:21:38

other's ideas, but it's the constructiveness of that, and

Lee Griffith: 00:21:41

feeling able to raise questions and whatnot. And so you're

Lee Griffith: 00:21:44

right. And if you're in a position where there is a

Lee Griffith: 00:21:48

domineering force, there's unlikely to be safe, safe

Lee Griffith: 00:21:52

circumstances in which that can be challenged, and then the

Lee Griffith: 00:21:56

whole kind of concept of risk. And what you'll probably get in

Lee Griffith: 00:21:59

that type of situation is over types, hunkering down to their

Lee Griffith: 00:22:05

type even more, because that is where they know that's their

Lee Griffith: 00:22:08

comfort. They're not they won't be willing to kind of spread

Lee Griffith: 00:22:12

their wings a little bit into the other. So yeah, that's a

Lee Griffith: 00:22:14

really interesting point. What does good risk taking look like

Lee Griffith: 00:22:19

to you? In the teams where

Lee Griffith: 00:22:21

Carrie-Ann Wade: I've seen it work well, and felt that it's

Lee Griffith: 00:22:25

worked? Well, it's definitely been about open conversation. So

Lee Griffith: 00:22:30

maybe speak to your point about that psychological safety, open

Lee Griffith: 00:22:33

conversation, feedback and discussion, where you really

Lee Griffith: 00:22:39

feel like what you're talking about is weighing up the pros

Lee Griffith: 00:22:42

and cons of risk. And it's about doing their due diligence, so

Lee Griffith: 00:22:48

not just doing things on a hunch, or like instinct. And

Lee Griffith: 00:22:52

sometimes instinct is a good thing. Please don't get me

Lee Griffith: 00:22:54

wrong, but I think in the context of what we're talking

Lee Griffith: 00:22:57

about, it is about that due diligence. So they balance in

Lee Griffith: 00:23:02

with intuition. Yes, absolutely. I think that is a good kind of

Lee Griffith: 00:23:06

scale, actually, to get the balance right with. So I think

Lee Griffith: 00:23:10

that that counts, whether you are talking about it

Lee Griffith: 00:23:12

organizationally, or if you are thinking about your own personal

Lee Griffith: 00:23:16

self as an as a leader and your own individual career, it is

Lee Griffith: 00:23:20

about that way and up, kind of what's the feedback telling me

Lee Griffith: 00:23:23

versus, you know, what do I think is the right thing to do

Lee Griffith: 00:23:27

here. So I think that level of openness and transparency in

Lee Griffith: 00:23:31

conversation is important. And going back to what you said

Lee Griffith: 00:23:33

about disc and you're sort of profiling, understanding how the

Lee Griffith: 00:23:37

people who are decision making in the room with you actually

Lee Griffith: 00:23:40

operate and communicate is really important to be able to

Lee Griffith: 00:23:44

have that constructive conversation and constructive,

Lee Griffith: 00:23:48

constructive challenge, because I think if you don't take the

Lee Griffith: 00:23:51

time to understand where other people are at, you're never

Lee Griffith: 00:23:54

going to have the level of debate, you potentially need to

Lee Griffith: 00:23:58

talk about risk. And I think organizations that genuinely do

Lee Griffith: 00:24:02

actually talk about things like risk management risk appetite,

Lee Griffith: 00:24:05

and check in on that as a leadership team. You know, that

Lee Griffith: 00:24:09

that's where I feel like we're in a good space, because we're

Lee Griffith: 00:24:11

not ignoring risk. We're actually having a transparent

Lee Griffith: 00:24:14

conversation about what risk means for our organization and

Lee Griffith: 00:24:18

how we might mitigate risk, whether we have an appetite to

Lee Griffith: 00:24:22

take risks. So it's that kind of language as well, that I've

Lee Griffith: 00:24:25

seen, kind of actually in play, where it feels like that's,

Lee Griffith: 00:24:30

that's a good thing for the team and the organization.

Lee Griffith: 00:24:33

Yeah, I think I don't disagree with what you've

Lee Griffith: 00:24:37

said. And I would add to it that there's something for me about

Lee Griffith: 00:24:40

how you align risk and in the things that you were talking

Lee Griffith: 00:24:46

about this absolutely is what would be happening, aligning

Lee Griffith: 00:24:49

that risk to your organizational purpose. Around Testing, testing

Lee Griffith: 00:24:55

it with the Insight is almost that checking in with What do

Lee Griffith: 00:25:00

the people you serve think's most important? So you're taking

Lee Griffith: 00:25:03

risks around the right things for the good of the organization

Lee Griffith: 00:25:07

and the people that you serve? Yeah.

Lee Griffith: 00:25:09

Carrie-Ann Wade: So that alignment needs to be there with

Lee Griffith: 00:25:11

like, actually, what is it that you're trying to achieve? What

Lee Griffith: 00:25:13

are you here to do?

Lee Griffith: 00:25:14

Yeah. And then I think there's something for me

Lee Griffith: 00:25:17

about the measures. So yes, you need some elements of

Lee Griffith: 00:25:23

information to help you with decision making around whether

Lee Griffith: 00:25:25

to take a risk or not. But you also have got to be clear of how

Lee Griffith: 00:25:28

are we going to know whether this risk is a worth continuing

Lee Griffith: 00:25:33

with or stopping or, you know, have we seen what we've wanted

Lee Griffith: 00:25:36

to see by taking the actions that we take. And then there's

Lee Griffith: 00:25:40

something about how you manage people's expectations along the

Lee Griffith: 00:25:44

way of taking risk. And being clear that and again, it goes

Lee Griffith: 00:25:48

back to other conversations we've had about failures, okay,

Lee Griffith: 00:25:54

we'd like it, just because we're taking this risk doesn't mean it

Lee Griffith: 00:25:57

has to work. As long as we've got mitigations. And down, we're

Lee Griffith: 00:26:01

not always real and actual harm. And, and so sometimes we might

Lee Griffith: 00:26:06

decide we need to retreat, or we might decide we need to take a

Lee Griffith: 00:26:09

different tact or, or whatever that might be. But having that

Lee Griffith: 00:26:13

clarity in stepping into the decision is, is really, really

Lee Griffith: 00:26:18

important. And I think then knowing along the way, what my

Lee Griffith: 00:26:23

checkpoints, when will I know if it's in wherever we go, or, or

Lee Griffith: 00:26:28

stop or pause or whatever. Yeah.

Lee Griffith: 00:26:31

Carrie-Ann Wade: And that measurement, isn't it? How do

Lee Griffith: 00:26:33

you know, then how do you have a conversation? And how do you

Lee Griffith: 00:26:35

measure whether the risk was worth taking or not? So you

Lee Griffith: 00:26:38

might take the risk, but actually did it achieve the

Lee Griffith: 00:26:40

outcome that you were hoping that would and the intent that

Lee Griffith: 00:26:44

you wanted, and actually, if you don't do that evaluation piece,

Lee Griffith: 00:26:48

then you're actually going to just probably be in a team that

Lee Griffith: 00:26:52

not takes risk for risk sake, but that is taking risks without

Lee Griffith: 00:26:55

actually knowing whether there's any benefit of take that risk,

Lee Griffith: 00:26:58

and you just read too many risks in this, then you just risk

Lee Griffith: 00:27:02

repeating that again, without knowing whether it's gonna work.

Lee Griffith: 00:27:05

I was definitely too many risks in that was getting tongue tied,

Lee Griffith: 00:27:08

I

Lee Griffith: 00:27:08

was getting the we need a policy about policies to

Lee Griffith: 00:27:11

write MSA kind of vibe. So we've touched on the pros and the

Lee Griffith: 00:27:19

challenges in risk taking, how do you start as an individual to

Lee Griffith: 00:27:24

identify where you might sit on a risk scale that say, you know,

Lee Griffith: 00:27:29

zero, you've you wrap yourself up in cotton Worland. And those

Lee Griffith: 00:27:35

Poppy things, I can't think of the word bubble wrap bubble wrap

Lee Griffith: 00:27:40

Carrie-Ann Wade: the crate in some sort of couture fashion

Lee Griffith: 00:27:42

item here made of cotton wool and bubble wrap, zero

Lee Griffith: 00:27:46

10 is you know, you're jumping out of the

Lee Griffith: 00:27:48

airplane with no parachute and you don't really care. Like how

Lee Griffith: 00:27:51

do you figure out where where the scale of risk use it?

Lee Griffith: 00:27:56

Carrie-Ann Wade: I think intuitively, you probably know,

Lee Griffith: 00:27:59

from just hearing you describe that if I'm honest, Lee, you

Lee Griffith: 00:28:02

probably know if you're a one to five or a 10 or somewhere maybe

Lee Griffith: 00:28:05

a little bit in between, I think it's about considering having

Lee Griffith: 00:28:12

insight into the way in which you take and make decisions is

Lee Griffith: 00:28:16

definitely an important part like of working out how risk

Lee Griffith: 00:28:21

adverse or how much risk appetite that you might have. As

Lee Griffith: 00:28:25

always, there's something about seeking feedback, because

Lee Griffith: 00:28:28

actually, you might perceive yourself to be a hugely risky

Lee Griffith: 00:28:31

individual and very open to taking risks. And you might ask

Lee Griffith: 00:28:34

some of your nearest and dearest colleagues, it'd be like, Oh,

Lee Griffith: 00:28:37

come off it you like always got the safety harness on. Say,

Lee Griffith: 00:28:40

there's usually the

Lee Griffith: 00:28:41

ones that go on so risky, like, you're just wearing

Lee Griffith: 00:28:45

socks today. Fred,

Lee Griffith: 00:28:48

Carrie-Ann Wade: is like that. When people describe themselves

Lee Griffith: 00:28:50

as quirky. I'm like, Are you allowed to describe yourself as

Lee Griffith: 00:28:52

quirky? I'm not sure you're not if you call yourself? Yeah. So

Lee Griffith: 00:28:57

there is something for me about kind of seeking that feedback

Lee Griffith: 00:29:00

and test it testing that out. And I guess it's kind of how

Lee Griffith: 00:29:04

many times do you ask yourself the question of like, what's the

Lee Griffith: 00:29:07

worst thing that can happen here? If I make this decision?

Lee Griffith: 00:29:11

And how many times do you feel comfortable or uncomfortable in

Lee Griffith: 00:29:16

those conversations and decisions you might be having

Lee Griffith: 00:29:18

with yourself or with your wider leadership team? And when I talk

Lee Griffith: 00:29:22

about comfort, I guess my caveat would be, I don't mean around

Lee Griffith: 00:29:26

your professional integrity, because often if you feel like

Lee Griffith: 00:29:29

you're kind of professional integrities feeling a bit

Lee Griffith: 00:29:33

uncomfortable. There is probably something in there about this

Lee Griffith: 00:29:36

not being quite right. But there's some I mean, more about

Lee Griffith: 00:29:39

like, are you just coasting along because it feels safest or

Lee Griffith: 00:29:42

easiest or are you pushing that and feeling that level of

Lee Griffith: 00:29:46

discomfort about maybe just doing something a bit different

Lee Griffith: 00:29:49

and taking that risk? Yeah.

Lee Griffith: 00:29:51

And that's the link with the disruption piece

Lee Griffith: 00:29:54

that we spoke about last week, isn't it? I'm if you're perhaps

Lee Griffith: 00:29:58

someone who is risk averse. And you think that maybe you are

Lee Griffith: 00:30:04

holding back your organization or your team? How do you start

Lee Griffith: 00:30:08

to shift your thinking and approach?

Lee Griffith: 00:30:12

Carrie-Ann Wade: I think there's something for me about being

Lee Griffith: 00:30:15

able to purposefully ask yourself that, for me, it's

Lee Griffith: 00:30:18

always back to like, what's the worst thing that can can happen?

Lee Griffith: 00:30:21

Because I think often, again, I don't want to talk too much

Lee Griffith: 00:30:24

about what we talked about last week. But it's that fear, isn't

Lee Griffith: 00:30:26

it? There's a, there's a fear of taking the risk. So I think if

Lee Griffith: 00:30:29

you are able to pose the question to yourself and to

Lee Griffith: 00:30:33

others about what's the worst thing that can happen here, if

Lee Griffith: 00:30:36

we make this decision, I think that's a really good starting

Lee Griffith: 00:30:40

point to start testing, how much risk you might be prepared to

Lee Griffith: 00:30:46

take and where you might be able to push the boundaries of your

Lee Griffith: 00:30:48

natural comfort state of risk for sure. And I think there's

Lee Griffith: 00:30:52

something for me, you talked about the sort of evidence,

Lee Griffith: 00:30:54

didn't you and seek in that feedback, there is something

Lee Griffith: 00:30:57

about making sure that you are able to weigh up the pros and

Lee Griffith: 00:31:02

cons of that risk by by having that intelligence to hand to

Lee Griffith: 00:31:07

kind of de that checkpoint. So I think that that's the bit that

Lee Griffith: 00:31:11

might give you the layer of comfort to be able to be

Lee Griffith: 00:31:14

uncomfortable about taking a risk, because you're like,

Lee Griffith: 00:31:16

actually, I've seen that there's some evidence behind this. And

Lee Griffith: 00:31:19

I've been able to kind of look at that and review that before I

Lee Griffith: 00:31:22

take the risk.

Lee Griffith: 00:31:24

Yeah, yeah. I think they're really important.

Lee Griffith: 00:31:27

And it's there's quite a lot of reframing there, isn't it that

Lee Griffith: 00:31:30

you have to do to, to step into what might feel more comfortable

Lee Griffith: 00:31:34

for you? I think the other thing I'd add is this, trying to

Lee Griffith: 00:31:40

understand and recognize when you're being too attached to

Lee Griffith: 00:31:44

something because often we won't take risks. If we're really

Lee Griffith: 00:31:49

invested in whatever it is, that's, that's there that's

Lee Griffith: 00:31:53

already there, or that's happening, you're more likely to

Lee Griffith: 00:31:57

try different things, if you don't have the same investment

Lee Griffith: 00:32:01

in it, which I know can be a hard thing to consider,

Lee Griffith: 00:32:07

particularly when you think about, well, the investment of

Lee Griffith: 00:32:11

an organization is its purpose and its mission, and you want to

Lee Griffith: 00:32:13

align everything to that. I'm not saying that's what you throw

Lee Griffith: 00:32:16

throw, you don't throw that out of the way and go, Well, I can't

Lee Griffith: 00:32:20

be invested in that anymore. But it's more about like, we get

Lee Griffith: 00:32:24

invested in the mundane is the wrong word. But I can't think of

Lee Griffith: 00:32:29

another one. But like, structure and process and again, like the

Lee Griffith: 00:32:36

disruption disruptive episode, you know, we've always done it

Lee Griffith: 00:32:40

this way, and you get too attached to the stuff that

Lee Griffith: 00:32:44

doesn't really matter.

Lee Griffith: 00:32:45

Carrie-Ann Wade: Yeah, there's a comfort in that, though, isn't

Lee Griffith: 00:32:47

there? That's your comfort place. Because and I often have

Lee Griffith: 00:32:50

seen this in leadership teams where actually rather than focus

Lee Griffith: 00:32:54

on the bigger picture, and the risk you might need to take to

Lee Griffith: 00:32:57

get there. Because people feel nervous about taking that risk.

Lee Griffith: 00:33:02

It's easier to get an A we use this phrase a lot as well. It's

Lee Griffith: 00:33:05

easier to get into the weeds of things like the structure and

Lee Griffith: 00:33:08

operational processes, and then using that almost as a buffer or

Lee Griffith: 00:33:12

a shield to go well, we we can't do it. Because actually, there's

Lee Griffith: 00:33:14

all this stuff underneath it would all need to change and it

Lee Griffith: 00:33:17

will be too difficult and people weren't, you know, so I do think

Lee Griffith: 00:33:20

there is something there about you get into that space, because

Lee Griffith: 00:33:23

that's where you feel comfortable. And that's probably

Lee Griffith: 00:33:25

a sign that you're not embracing your inner risk taker, I guess,

Lee Griffith: 00:33:29

in terms of being in that space, for sure. And what

Lee Griffith: 00:33:33

if you work for someone who you think is too

Lee Griffith: 00:33:37

risky? And we've we've all worked with people like this,

Lee Griffith: 00:33:40

I'm sure how do you approach that without you being labeled

Lee Griffith: 00:33:45

as the killjoy, or the clipboard carrying bureaucrats or whatever

Lee Griffith: 00:33:50

they might call you?

Lee Griffith: 00:33:53

Carrie-Ann Wade: That is a tricky one, isn't it? Because

Lee Griffith: 00:33:55

because some of that might be about the psychological safety

Lee Griffith: 00:33:58

point that you raised. Because if you're in a leadership team

Lee Griffith: 00:34:01

where it feels psychologically safe, then you are obviously in

Lee Griffith: 00:34:05

a better position to be able to challenge some of that than if

Lee Griffith: 00:34:09

you're in a team where you think, Oh, God, if I challenge

Lee Griffith: 00:34:11

it, there's a consequence for me, and I'm really stick. I'm

Lee Griffith: 00:34:14

taking too much of a personal risk here to challenge it. But I

Lee Griffith: 00:34:18

think it goes back to me for like, what's the evidence that

Lee Griffith: 00:34:21

you can present? So can you have a conversation or bring into the

Lee Griffith: 00:34:25

conversation? Okay, if we take that decision? Are we all in

Lee Griffith: 00:34:30

this room now? So you make it less about the individual?

Lee Griffith: 00:34:33

Because it will be a collective decision for your leadership

Lee Griffith: 00:34:36

team? Are we all in this room now comfortable with what the

Lee Griffith: 00:34:39

potential consequences might be? And actually, it might then be

Lee Griffith: 00:34:43

your role to put into that space, the consequences that

Lee Griffith: 00:34:47

nobody's yet mentioned? Because obviously, it might not be in

Lee Griffith: 00:34:50

that risk takers best interest to look at all the consequences

Lee Griffith: 00:34:53

because they're only focused on the one that they are hoping to

Lee Griffith: 00:34:56

get from it. So I think there's ways you can do it in a measured

Lee Griffith: 00:35:00

unbalanced way that maybe makes it less, feel less like it's

Lee Griffith: 00:35:03

about an individual. But I also think it's back to that

Lee Griffith: 00:35:07

understanding their preference and their type. And looking at

Lee Griffith: 00:35:11

how you might have to adapt your communication style or approach

Lee Griffith: 00:35:15

to be able to kind of reach them in a way that will be meaningful

Lee Griffith: 00:35:20

for them and maybe get themselves to kind of check in

Lee Griffith: 00:35:22

on on kind of how they're operating. Yeah,

Lee Griffith: 00:35:25

I was having flashbacks as you were talking

Lee Griffith: 00:35:28

to, oh, good or bad. In between? I don't think sometimes, you

Lee Griffith: 00:35:34

know, people would probably say that I was someone that was

Lee Griffith: 00:35:38

stifling people taking the actions they wanted to take

Lee Griffith: 00:35:42

that. I would say that they were, well, I won't say what I

Lee Griffith: 00:35:47

would say about them here.

Lee Griffith: 00:35:51

Carrie-Ann Wade: Because like a EastEnders moment, cliffhanger,

Lee Griffith: 00:35:55

why don't you why not.

Lee Griffith: 00:35:57

But the risks that they were saying, like hadn't

Lee Griffith: 00:35:59

gone through the process? Yeah. And I remember some service

Lee Griffith: 00:36:02

changes that people wanted to take and the driver for the

Lee Griffith: 00:36:07

service change was multifaceted, but the primary one that was

Lee Griffith: 00:36:11

pushing certain individuals appetite to just effing do it

Lee Griffith: 00:36:18

was a financial one. And I had to bring up the other risks in

Lee Griffith: 00:36:24

if we took this particular approach and how, in the end, I

Lee Griffith: 00:36:28

managed to kind of get everyone to see sense. And we found a way

Lee Griffith: 00:36:32

through that helped meet a common purpose that we all had,

Lee Griffith: 00:36:37

but it was going back to, what is it that we're striving to do

Lee Griffith: 00:36:41

as an organization? And most importantly, what is it our

Lee Griffith: 00:36:44

stakeholders will expect of us? And posing that question in

Lee Griffith: 00:36:48

there, you're right about psychological safety? I did feel

Lee Griffith: 00:36:51

in that instance, safe enough, or I just didn't care how they

Lee Griffith: 00:36:56

reacted, because I felt so passionate, which is sometimes

Lee Griffith: 00:37:00

can can over can top trump the Yeah, the safety element of it.

Lee Griffith: 00:37:06

But yeah, I think I think it's remembering that purpose

Lee Griffith: 00:37:11

stakeholder outcome that you're striving for. And

Lee Griffith: 00:37:14

Carrie-Ann Wade: actually, if you can bring the voice of

Lee Griffith: 00:37:15

others into that room, sometimes that is hard to argue against.

Lee Griffith: 00:37:19

So actually, if if the strength of opinion and voice and

Lee Griffith: 00:37:23

evidence is one way, that individual who might be totally

Lee Griffith: 00:37:29

set on a different course of action, regardless of the risk

Lee Griffith: 00:37:31

will find it very difficult to continue without properly having

Lee Griffith: 00:37:36

a debate and conversation about the evidence that's been, you

Lee Griffith: 00:37:39

know, put into the space.

Lee Griffith: 00:37:41

And I think that I just referenced people to the

Lee Griffith: 00:37:44

difficult conversation episode that we had as a way to think

Lee Griffith: 00:37:49

about how you might frame feedback to someone who you

Lee Griffith: 00:37:52

perceive is being too risky or taking undue risk when they

Lee Griffith: 00:37:56

don't, they don't need to be. And it goes, your evidence was

Lee Griffith: 00:38:01

the thing that we spoke about a lot in that episode was Yeah,

Lee Griffith: 00:38:03

yeah, to me. And I suppose my penultimate question is one

Lee Griffith: 00:38:08

around when you feel that the level of risk that you're

Lee Griffith: 00:38:14

comfortable with is not aligned with your peers or the board,

Lee Griffith: 00:38:20

how do you start to navigate that and take people with you?

Lee Griffith: 00:38:26

And and some of it would probably picked up in the two

Lee Griffith: 00:38:28

other exams? Yeah, of not risky enough and too risky. But is

Lee Griffith: 00:38:31

there anything else that you would do in that situation? For

Lee Griffith: 00:38:34

me,

Lee Griffith: 00:38:35

Carrie-Ann Wade: it's about how able are you to have that open

Lee Griffith: 00:38:37

and transparent communication and conversation about that. And

Lee Griffith: 00:38:42

actually, they would like you've just you've just said it in your

Lee Griffith: 00:38:44

example, there will sometimes be that point in time where

Lee Griffith: 00:38:48

actually, that misalignment is maybe because your own values or

Lee Griffith: 00:38:54

integrity feels like it's being challenged, or you potentially

Lee Griffith: 00:38:57

don't feel like people have weighed up all of the pros and

Lee Griffith: 00:39:00

cons of something and done that due diligence. And there might

Lee Griffith: 00:39:04

just be that point where you do just need to raise your hand and

Lee Griffith: 00:39:07

flag that in a conversation. So I think your ability to be able

Lee Griffith: 00:39:12

to say you don't feel comfortable with something and

Lee Griffith: 00:39:14

then give that explanation as to why you don't feel comfortable

Lee Griffith: 00:39:18

is really important. But equally, I think that personal

Lee Griffith: 00:39:21

insight into where might that misalignment be coming from is

Lee Griffith: 00:39:27

also crucial. Because if that misalignment is coming just

Lee Griffith: 00:39:30

because it's not in your nature to feel like you want to take a

Lee Griffith: 00:39:34

risk and it just feels genuinely personally uncomfortable for

Lee Griffith: 00:39:38

you. That's not always a reason to challenge and not take it it

Lee Griffith: 00:39:42

might be a reason to challenge yourself and your thinking, but

Lee Griffith: 00:39:45

actually if that misalignment is coming because you are working

Lee Griffith: 00:39:48

through the potential consequences for the

Lee Griffith: 00:39:51

organization, again, my alarm bells are ringing because

Lee Griffith: 00:39:54

there's a red flag here, because we haven't talked about the

Lee Griffith: 00:39:57

impact on this group of people on our reputation on our

Lee Griffith: 00:40:01

finances, whatever it may be. I think that's the point where

Lee Griffith: 00:40:04

it's the onus is definitely on you, as a leader to bring that

Lee Griffith: 00:40:07

into the conversation.

Lee Griffith: 00:40:10

I think and I think the word vulnerability

Lee Griffith: 00:40:13

came to mind as you were talking, because there's

Lee Griffith: 00:40:15

something about as a leader being comfortable with showing

Lee Griffith: 00:40:20

our vulnerabilities. And particularly when it comes to

Lee Griffith: 00:40:24

big decision making like this, although these might not

Lee Griffith: 00:40:27

necessarily all be big decisions. But when it comes to

Lee Griffith: 00:40:30

how different people might feel about taking certain actions or

Lee Griffith: 00:40:35

inactions or decisions that, you know, showing your vulnerability

Lee Griffith: 00:40:39

in that space is can be really helpful, important. Put whatever

Lee Griffith: 00:40:45

word there, you want way to earn trust to people. And that's,

Lee Griffith: 00:40:50

that's what's key. If you're going to navigate board and peer

Lee Griffith: 00:40:55

discussions and take people with you is trying to find that that

Lee Griffith: 00:40:59

common sense and connection, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. So

Lee Griffith: 00:41:05

to wrap things up, how do you embrace your inner risk taker?

Lee Griffith: 00:41:12

Carrie-Ann Wade: My top tip would be back to that, ask

Lee Griffith: 00:41:14

yourself, What's the worst thing that can happen? If I do? Or

Lee Griffith: 00:41:17

don't do this? Whatever the thing? Is the decision you make

Lee Griffith: 00:41:20

the action, you're going to take it like just ask yourself that

Lee Griffith: 00:41:25

question. And as you're answering that question, with

Lee Griffith: 00:41:28

your feedback from other intelligence sources, as well,

Lee Griffith: 00:41:31

that I think that will help you to work through whether or not

Lee Griffith: 00:41:34

you're comfortable taking taking that risk. So that would be my

Lee Griffith: 00:41:38

sort of starting point. I think for people who may be more risk

Lee Griffith: 00:41:41

adverse.

Lee Griffith: 00:41:42

I love that, I would say just a practical thing

Lee Griffith: 00:41:45

that you might want to do to reflect as a reflection exercise

Lee Griffith: 00:41:50

to understand how risk averse or risk, pro risk you are,

Lee Griffith: 00:41:55

whatever, the opposite. I

Lee Griffith: 00:41:57

Carrie-Ann Wade: know, I don't actually know what the opposite

Lee Griffith: 00:41:59

I say risk adverse a lot. But I'm like, What's the opposite of

Lee Griffith: 00:42:02

being risk? At risk? To know Yeah, probably red acre Pro,

Lee Griffith: 00:42:07

is to and it's something that I suggest to

Lee Griffith: 00:42:10

leaders quite often is to keep a bit of a log of decisions that

Lee Griffith: 00:42:14

you're making during a week or a month. And having that

Lee Griffith: 00:42:18

reflection piece of like, what was the hope in this? Taking

Lee Griffith: 00:42:23

this decision? Did I you know, did I go through the steps was I

Lee Griffith: 00:42:27

did I think through apps out I hate the phrase outside of the

Lee Griffith: 00:42:32

box. But you know, you can challenge if once you start to

Lee Griffith: 00:42:35

get clarity in the decisions you're being asked to make,

Lee Griffith: 00:42:37

there's so much you can do with that as a piece of information

Lee Griffith: 00:42:41

to understand yourself as a leader. And one of them would be

Lee Griffith: 00:42:46

understanding the types of risks you're being asked to take or

Lee Griffith: 00:42:50

that you're perhaps suggesting you make love it that is a good

Lee Griffith: 00:42:54

Carrie-Ann Wade: and really practical thing that people can

Lee Griffith: 00:42:56

just start doing tomorrow or whenever after they've listened

Lee Griffith: 00:42:58

to this episode. So I really love that one. I might well do

Lee Griffith: 00:43:01

it myself. Actually.

Lee Griffith: 00:43:02

I think you should. Anyway, it's lovely to

Lee Griffith: 00:43:10

talk to you on this topic. Thank you to everyone that's watched

Lee Griffith: 00:43:14

or listened and head over to substack for some fun, Yes, last

Lee Griffith: 00:43:18

day. Yeah. I don't know what they are yet. But But there'll

Lee Griffith: 00:43:22

be there by time this is published. And yeah, a comment

Lee Griffith: 00:43:28

we'd love to do to get involved in this discussion. So let us

Lee Griffith: 00:43:30

know what you think about risk. Let us know how risky you think

Lee Griffith: 00:43:36

your organisation's and leaders in your organisation are. Let us

Lee Griffith: 00:43:39

know what you do to step into your inner risk taker. Yeah.

Lee Griffith: 00:43:44

Anyway, till next week. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to

Lee Griffith: 00:43:51

hit follow to make sure you get the next episode. And if today's

Lee Griffith: 00:43:54

discussion resonated, please leave a review on Apple

Lee Griffith: 00:43:57

podcasts.

Lee Griffith: 00:43:58

Carrie-Ann Wade: We also have our substack community where you

Lee Griffith: 00:44:00

can get behind the scenes info, Ask Us Anything session and

Lee Griffith: 00:44:04

build your network of like minded leaders. Visit how to

Lee Griffith: 00:44:07

take the lead.substack.com To find out more. And if you want

Lee Griffith: 00:44:10

to work with us to challenge and change leadership in your

Lee Griffith: 00:44:13

organization. Get in touch by dropping us an email how to take

Lee Griffith: 00:44:16

the lead@gmail.com or DM us on the socials. Until next week.

Lee Griffith: 00:44:21

Get out there and take the leap