“Say yes as much as you can when you’re young so that you can balance things a little better when you’re older.”

• Sondra Rotty

Episode Summary:

Sondra Rotty is the newly elected president and COO of Tarlton Corporation, one of St. Louis's largest general contracting and construction management firms. Since joining the company in 2005 as a project engineer, she has left her mark on a range of high-profile projects while actively serving the profession through board service and industry leadership — a career that exemplifies both operational excellence and a deep commitment to developing the next generation of AEC talent.

In this episode of The Zweig Letter Podcast, Randy Wilburn and co-host Luke Carothers sit down with Sondra to trace her journey from project engineer to President, unpacking the leadership lessons, recruitment strategies, and mentorship experiences that shaped her path. The conversation gets into succession planning, the ongoing challenge of attracting new talent to the industry, and how values-based cultures drive both business growth and individual fulfillment in design and construction.

Listeners will come away with candid reflections on navigating career transitions, championing diversity in the workplace, and building a resilient organization — all grounded in action-oriented insights for leaders, managers, and emerging professionals across AEC.

Key Takeaways:

• Succession planning is an ongoing, organic process: Effective talent development means turning everyday situations into leadership opportunities, focusing on continuous feedback and recognizing high-potential individuals early 20:20.
• Broadening the talent funnel: Building relationships with middle schools, high schools, and nontraditional university programs exposes more students to AEC career paths and helps strengthen the future workforce 15:00.
• Mentorship and team learning: Immersing oneself in challenging projects—and seeking out mentors organically—accelerates career growth and deepens operational expertise 07:21.
• Culture is foundational: A caring workplace, clear values, and flexibility are the bedrock of loyalty and long employee tenure 26:16.
• Women in AEC: Say yes early in your career, integrate personal and professional priorities strategically, and communicate openly with both work and family for long-term balance and success 29:18.

All this and more on this episode of the Zweig Letter podcast.

Links referenced in this episode:

• Sondra Rotty on LinkedIn
• Tarlton Corporation Website
• Missouri Gateway Green Building Council
• AGC of Missouri
• Zweig Group & ElevateAEC Conference
• Learn about the Zweig Letter and subscribe: https://thezweigletter.com/
• Connect with Randy Wilburn on LinkedIn
• Connect with Luke Carothers on LinkedIn

Get your FREE Subscription to the Zweig Letter Newsletter.

Call-to-Action & Next Steps:

For more candid leadership stories and industry strategies, be sure to subscribe to The Zweig Letter Podcast and download other episodes highlighting AEC firm growth and talent development. Want to connect? Reach out to Sandra Roddy via LinkedIn or the Tarlton Corporation website. Stay tuned for continued insight into how today’s leaders are driving the future of design and construction—one conversation at a time.

Stay tuned for more enlightening content from the Zweig Letter podcast, and make sure to subscribe for regular updates!

Other episodes you'll enjoy:

Architecture with Heart - Carley Chastain

From Specs to Stories with Cherise Lakeside

Bridging Design and Construction with Dan Crist

AI Transforming AEC with KP Reddy

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Twitter: Zweig Group

LinkedIn: Zweig Group

Website: Zweig Group

Welcome to the Zweig Letter Podcast. Putting

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environmental consulting advice and guidance in your

ear. Zweig Group's team of experts have spent more than three

decades elevating the industry by helping

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Podcasts Elevating the design industry one

episode at a time

80 years. That's how long Tarlton Corporation has been

building St. Louis, and in 2026, they're marking

that milestone with a leadership transition that's been years in

the making. My guest is Sandra Roddy, and she is

the newly elected President of Tarlton Corporation,

one of St. Louis largest general contracting and

construction management firms. Sandra joined Tarlton

in 2005 as a project engineer, was named Chief

operating officer in 2024, and has now been

elected president by the company's Board of Directors while

retaining that COO role. Her fingerprints are on some

of St. Louis's most iconic projects, the historic

renovation of the Old Courthouse at the Gateway Arch, the Olin

Business School expansion at Washington University, and the

St. Louis Art Museum's East Building Edition, among

others. She also serves on multiple boards,

including as treasurer for the Missouri Gateway Green Building

Council and Chair of the Building Division for the

AGC of Missouri. Sandra, we want to welcome you to

the zweigletter podcast. So glad we made this happen. How are you doing

today? Thank you. I'm doing great and I'm excited to be

here and I'm excited to. I'm fangirling

because I know You've done over 2,500 podcasts and

you're spreading knowledge like crazy. And I'm happy to contribute. I hope I

can contribute. I appreciate that. No, everybody that has done a podcast

with me has contributed, so it's all good. And. And certainly this will

your chance to kind of share your story. And speaking of which,

I would love for you to kind of take us back to the beginning. As

I mentioned at the opening, you joined Tarlton in 2005 as

a project engineer. You are a Missouri S and T

architectural engineering degree graduate. What drew you

to construction management specifically? And what were those

early years at Tarlton like? Yeah, yeah. So I

would have to back up a little bit further to my college experience

and some internships that I was fortunate to have,

the first of which was at the city of St. Louis where I was

designing sewers, doing flow calculations by

hand with the mechanical pencil and drawing sewer

profiles. And my Boss one day came in

and said, you look kind of bored. Do you want to take a walk out

into the field and check out some of our construction activity?

And I guess that was a life changing event for me because I

never looked back. I was so lucky to get to go do

some bridge inspections across St. Louis and eventually

landed on the Eads Bridge project, which

was a historic renovation or restoration, I should say, for

the city. And it was just a great experience to be able

to learn from field personnel, ask questions about

construction, really get to understand what a career in construction

would look like. And so fast forward to Tarlton. Yeah,

I started as a project engineer on a project in Cape Girardeau,

Missouri, and moved on from there to build

on Washington University's campus for several years.

Had the fortunate opportunity to work for the federal

government and some of our greatest cultural

institutions in town. And looking back, all of

those projects, you know, it was all time and place,

right. And opportunistic. But some of these buildings

were just very complicated schedules and just I got to work

with some of the greatest teams, some of the greatest customers who were

never afraid to share knowledge. And so moved on from project

engineer to senior to manager and eventually

had my own book of business as a director. And then from there

kind of took on all of operations and kind of brings me to

closer to where I am today. And, man, it's been a fun ride. It's

still a fun ride. I'm in the middle of a long journey and

I'm just loving it. Yeah, well, I mean, I love to hear stories

like that. And I think one thing I want to highlight and point out to

any of our listeners, especially the younger ones, is not to

dismiss those internship experiences, because they do

actually. They can be become launching pads

for major aspects of or sections of your career. But

it's also, you just, you know, as I always like to tell people, don't despise

small beginnings. Sometimes you have to start one place, but it will

totally take you, like you said, on a trajectory that will move you in

directions that you never, you never dreamed possible. Yeah. And

what a great opportunity when you are still in school

to try different types of internships. And really, you

know, you. You may find your passion unexpectedly just

because somebody asked a question or just because somebody said, hey, hey, take

a walk with me. And life is funny like that. Yeah,

it is. Yeah. And Sondra, I love that you mentioned

fangirling out. As I was preparing for this episode, I was looking

at the list of projects that you've worked on. And it's some of

my favorite places, particularly the old courthouse in St.

Louis. But I make a point to point out the Eads Bridge to my

wife every time we drive through St. Louis. So I am equally

fangirling out. And so it feels good. I love

that. Thank you for sharing that. That's awesome. Yeah. So

are there any projects specifically because again, you've been

at Tarlton now 22 years. You've worked on a lot

of, as I mentioned, a lot of high profile projects. The Old courthouse

renovation, the St. Louis Art Museum, the Olin Business School

expansion. How have those pretty big projects

helped to shape who you are as

not just a leader, but an operator? Yeah, so I

would go back to. We built the, as a joint venture,

the National Personnel Records Facility in

Hazelwood just north of St. Louis. And that was

a $90 million design build project.

And we were so fortunate to have a team

that came together and we shared, as we always

do when we're selecting joint venture partners or partnering up with others, just

making sure our values align. Our approach is similar.

And I got the opportunity to have a director

on site with us full time. And I was a senior project engineer at

the time. And you know, I veer off into a tangent about

mentorship, but I always feel like I never ask for a

mentor. I. I just look back and find that, oh my

goodness, this person had a profound impact on my career, on my life.

And I would say that was a huge turning point for me. It really,

this individual really challenged me in a way that

no one else ever had in my career to date. And you don't get the

opportunity to be sitting in a trailer with this person 12 hours a day. It

was a tough project. We were there before the sun came up and after the

sun went down and, you know, just really was

very intentional about communications. Was very

played devil's advocate in any conflict resolution.

Just really thought through everything methodically and

kind of slowed us down to not be reactionary.

And gosh, I would say that was the turning point. I was able,

when we finished that project, to move on into that

tough art museum project and really

utilize some of those skills I had learned from this individual.

But then I think the next big lift was the Olin Business

School expansion again, another $90 million job

in 18 months. Wasn't fully designed when we started the job.

And just having to really step up and lead

the team on that project, it was a huge challenge for me.

And I think just from a construction perspective,

the site was incredibly tight. We were

Shoring three stories of building on that tight site. We

had two tower cranes. And so just the really digging

into the technical side of things. I think that's where,

you know, in Washington University builds hundred year buildings. They're

beautiful buildings with, you know, every detail carefully

considered. There's historic buildings we were interfacing with.

And so I think the best place to learn for sure is when

you're, you're in charge of a large team and you're trying to solve some

complex problems. And that would. Those two projects

were, I think, pivotal points in my career where I just

dug in and learned the most. Yeah, I love hearing that.

And that sounds exciting. Right. And I think that, you know,

there's just so much going on. I'm curious to know and I

do want to back up just a second. When you were growing up, did you

ever envision yourself being in this position in

construction management and in engineering from this perspective?

Was there somebody in your family? Was there some experience

that maybe you had, you know, young, at a much younger age

that kind of led you on this journey? My father

was a carpenter. So he was a builder of. So he was a builder.

Yeah. But he then worked for the power plant. So. So

maybe there was some subconscious

recognition there. But I actually, I can

pinpoint. I wanted to be an engineer when I saw the movie

Apollo 13 and, and they dumped all the,

they dumped all the parts and pieces on the table and they said, you

need to make this, fix this using only this.

And I would just, I really enjoyed that movie. And I said, okay,

I'm going to be an aerospace engineer. And I like that.

Yeah. And we have this, we have this great school in the middle of Missouri,

right? A Great Engineering School, MO S&T. It was University

of Missouri, Rolla, back at the time. And I was fortunate

enough to run there on their cross country and track and field team.

And it just, it all fit perfectly. And while there

you're exposed to all the different disciplines. And so I really

honed in on what I was, what I was feeling a little more passionate about

in my youth and ended up in the civil architectural department.

So. Yeah, I like that. Well, and I know a lot of people aren't.

Like I said, I'm. I live out in this area and I, I ride by

Missouri S&T whenever I come from St. Louis,

headed to Fayetteville, Arkansas where Z group is based. And you know

it. It is. That school actually has a pretty sterling

reputation in the design industry. Right. I mean, you guys, you're kind of

like the Harvard of the architectural engineering. If I could

use that way to describe your alma mater. But am

I overselling this or. No? I mean, I,

hey, I am a huge proponent of the education they

provide and I say it's the best bang for your buck. But

it is such a, it's roll is a great town. It's a great

small town, Midwest town. And the school just, you

know, we get some stellar engineers coming out of out of S and T. So

thanks for the shout out. Absolutely, absolutely. We love doing it. You

know, it's funny because I, I, over the years that I've worked at Zweig in

my many iterations at Zweig group dating all the way back to

97 and I hate dating myself. But you know, one of the things

that I think in the AEC space that it's always been important is

education. Even to the point where, you know, I used to

recruit for Zweig for different clients and there

would be clients that we recruited for, they would only take people from certain

schools, you know, and that's a real thing. And you know, when I go and

look back at like different specialties like structural engineers with

the wood background, when you think of like Clemson University

and then when I think of like just pure structural engineering

backgrounds, there were certain schools that different clients that we worked

with, they were certain pedigrees that they wanted. And I know that

Missouri S&T has or offers up that type of pedigree

for people that are coming out that are moving into the AEC space.

And I've always found that interesting that people tend to

gravitate towards those schools that really produce some

really top talent and some difference makers when it comes to

thinking about how to solve problems that all engineers and

architects have to do. Yeah, you're exactly right. I think, you know,

we're never using any differential equations in our, in our day to

day work. But the ability to think critically and

solve problems is the quality that seems to

come to the top when I think of graduates from these schools.

But you know, I also don't want to hate on any other education

because as workforce continues to be

a challenge in the industry, you know, we're having to look outside, we're really having

to compete for these students out of these schools and, and we're also having to

broaden our reach and just start looking at potentially

other disciplines and just looking for labor in places

we haven't historically recruited from. So. And

you know, we've been pretty successful in that. And I think that's an exciting

Thing, it's exposing more and more people to the industry

and looking at showing them all what the. The impact they can make in the

industry. It's fun. It's fun. Yeah. Yeah. Lucas, you have.

You have a question? No, I was just going to add in that

I love that approach to broadening where

you're pulling talent from. I think that's something that as

we move forward as an industry, recruitment and retention has been a

consistent challenge for at least as long as I've been a part

of Zweigroup, which I'll date myself, as well as 2020.

Not quite 1997, but it's been a consistent challenge year over

year. So I'm kind of wondering about that

expanded approach to hiring. Like, you're clearly

very passionate about the industry that you serve. So how do we

engender that passion? Other people. How do we find other people with that

passion? You know, we have been. Well,

our first step was to start, you know,

networking and coordinating with universities where we hadn't

historically recruited from. And we

started to realize that's almost too late. And so we.

We've been getting into middle schools and high schools

now, especially in our. In our locale, to

just give presentations just to show students, hey, there

are so many opportunities in this industry and so many different paths,

and we just want you to know what's out there. We've also partnered with some

of our customers to set up career resource trailers

in the community and have high school students actually

coming out to a job site and not only learning about construction,

but also exposing them to whatever. You know, if we're building for a

healthcare client, they're also exposed to careers in healthcare. So it was

kind of a joint effort to get the word out on different industries

and markets. And I like to think that's successful. It's a hard

thing to measure, right? Yeah. Yeah, it is. I

want to key in on something that you mentioned for any

design firm leader, anybody that's listening to this

podcast that's wondering, what are we going to do for this next

generation? And I've been saying what you just said a second ago, I've been saying

for years, is that we have to get into the grade schools and start planting

the seeds of the power of working, becoming an

engineer, the power of becoming an architect, what that means, right? I mean, I can

remember growing up in, you know, when you get to kindergarten, first grade, you know,

everybody has either show and tell or they talk about what career they

want to be. And people want to be police officers and firemen and

fire people, but all noble positions. But, you know, there needs

to be intentionality behind how the design industry

goes into K through 12 to educate

young people about all of the many possibilities that

exist within the design industry space for careers,

because they are wide and varied.

Yes, absolutely. And also our skilled

trades, we're a union town and just

I don't think people recognize. And maybe it's a narrative that

has just shifted over time with, you know, everybody kind of pushing,

go to school, go to school, go to school. But you can have a great

lifelong career in the skilled trades and bring

so much value to the industry, but also

really set your family, your future family up for success. And

I think that's something that we have really been trying to

communicate along with, you know, the other side of the business.

And people are always surprised. They're always like, wow,

wow, that's. That's what happens. Wow, this is crazy.

And so it's a great start. Like I said, it's very difficult to measure.

And I. I'm sure there will be some metric data that

we can use in the future to see if we've made some progress.

Yeah, no, absolutely. I think there is. And, you know,

organizations like Zweig Group and so many

others in this space that have worked in the design industry

for years have constantly talked about that and tried

to develop different ways, creative ways to that firms

could continue to have that conversation above and beyond. Just,

you know, if this is just going to bring me new work, because every conversation

you have isn't necessarily going to turn into new work, but some conversations

that you have can set your industry up for

success for the long term. And I think what you're describing and what we've been

talking about here does make a difference. And on that same point,

I wanted to ask you just a little bit about the whole

succession planning that your firm went through. Everything that

you're experiencing has been years in the making. It wasn't like you woke up one

day and they were like, hey, do you want to be president of the company?

Right. I mean, there were some individuals, I think, Tracy Hart and

Dick Ellsperman. And if I mispronounced his name, please,

it's Dirk Ellsperman. If I mispronounce Dirk, hopefully I didn't

mispronounce it. They obviously had a long Runway in mind when they started

developing you specifically for this role. What did that

process feel like from the inside? Right. In terms of,

like, when did you start to understand where things were heading?

You know, I would say it wasn't really a

process. I think that there was some,

you know, organic movement in the organization. Of course

we're really intentional about talent development and

succession planning is definitely part of that. And I'm

in kind of a unique position to be have the

background in operations and still be leading operations

and get to roll into this position. And I still have plenty of

development to do in my role here. But I think

it just started with conversations and started

with asking the question, what does this look like?

Where are you in your development plan? Where do we need

to go? How do we get there? And I think in general,

when all of us are looking at future leaders and high potential individuals in

the company, we are really thinking about how do we turn these

micro situations into leadership opportunities.

How are our leaders and managers recognizing that,

you know, somebody is showing up as a leader. Maybe

it's just a weekly subcontractor meeting and there's a conflict and

this project engineer handled the conflict well, or didn't. And

how are we using that as a learning opportunity to ask the

question, you know, how do we handle that? How could we handle have handled it

better? How are we using that to develop people? And I think it's the

same situation at every level of the organization. Right?

We're just trying to continue to work on development

plans and succession. You know, it's not always just a

black and white answer and it's fluid and

maybe you're not there yet on certain aspects of development, but we know

what we need to work on. And so I'm sorry to be answering that in

more of a general sense, but that is kind of how, you know,

things came about for me. So. And we continue

to work on that succession and I work on, you know, in each

position, each role, leadership role, what does that look like? What are our options?

How are we developing this pool of talent? And it's really

the most, it's the fun part of what we do, right? Building

a great team. So yeah, well, I mean, you

said it. I mean it cut you off. I think that the real question is

the real not, it's not even a question, it's just an observation, is

that, I mean, first of all, we're all works in progress, right? And

the beauty of it, what you're kind of saying to me and what I hear

is that, you know, there's actually some things that you're only going to learn

once you get into the position. And that is a unique

aspect of it. A lot of people think, oh well, we've got to hire the

finished product. And I always tell companies, especially from a

recruitment and retention perspective, and you know, to Luke's point,

it's one of the toughest or I mean, probably the most critical

challenge that this industry faces. And a lot of times when people are

out recruiting and I'm just throwing on my old recruiter hat, is

that we want that perfect person. And especially when

we as the hiring manager is, aren't, aren't always perfect in that way.

And so I think it's, it's always begs the question, well, what do you want?

Is it. Do you want someone that can, is moldable or, or that

can grow with a role or with a position? Or do you want the

finished product? Because sometimes the two are not the same.

Yeah, yeah, that's so true. That's so true. And you know, it's

funny because we hear the word unicorn a lot

around here and we're always looking for a unicorn.

And yeah, you're right, it's a huge challenge. And

we have had to level set expectations

and start to look at what are the top five qualities

we need in a candidate. And all this other stuff is

noise that we can address ourselves because that's what we do.

And so I think we're guilty of doing exactly what you

described there. But we've gotten better over time as we've, you

know, had experiences in the market. And it just

goes back to, you know, continuing to pound on that

talent development, programming and progress and investment.

And that's a huge focus for us. It has to be like I

tell people all the time when, when I talk to design firm leaders, you know,

what can they do to either close the back door, if you will.

I mean, it's just personal and professional development. If you're not

personally and professionally developing your people from a

360 degree perspective, then you're missing out on

opportunities to build a level of loyalty

and a level of insight that only comes when people know that

you really care about them as individuals as well as by the body

of work that they bring to the table. Yeah, it's so true. And

that that loyalty is so critical to the

organization. I know that some of the feedback we get

from our customers is they're always impressed at the tenure

that we're bringing to the table and we're really proud of

that. And I think that you're exactly right. It's because

we care about the people we're investing in, the people we're checking on the people.

We're constantly analyzing our environment and making

sure. That we're not, we're trying not to over task people and

it's a lot to juggle for sure. For any organization. And

we're not always going to be successful, but boy, we work hard at

it. Yeah. No, well, like I tell all design

professionals, when they hang their head low is that, I mean, you got to lift

your head up. Because every design professional in some way, shape or form

is they're responsible for the built environment that we see

and experience on a daily basis. So whether you are responsible for,

for creating the design or, or ideating that design

or actually implementing those designs into

real life, I mean, everything that we see and do every day is

because of, of the hard work and dedication and time that

goes into those projects by an engineer or an

architect or some type of construction management. And I say

that all the time. And I just, I have to remind people that what you

do really matters. Like, really matters. So.

Yeah, it makes a huge difference. Yes. Every single part

of our life is touched by it. Yes. Yeah, and

I think that's. Randy's heard me harp on that point many times.

Like everything that we see around us is touched in some way by this

industry and we interact with it every day. And when I think about

St. Louis, it's. You've had a huge hand in

developing St. Louis over the last 20 years.

So I was kind of wondering your perspective of. So you

mentioned developing within developing people within the firm,

leading to longer tenure. And you yourself have a two decade

tenure. So as you come into the role of president,

what's the thing that guides you forward? Right, yeah,

just that simply. Yeah. Well, our mission at Tarlton

is to build futures for our

customers, but also for, for our people. And that

is our guiding light. And we do that through

by working within our values. And I know I

struggle because it sounds trite every time. Right. You hear it all

the time. But we actually, you know, we don't just

talk about them, we really talk about, you know,

how are we applying them to our day to day

existence. And every. In those micro situations I was talking

about, how do we communicate with one another? How do we support one another?

Our first value is build a safe and caring environment. And

that's key to making sure people are happy and feel welcome

and are motivated to keep moving forward. We

cultivate clients for life. 80% of our business is

repeat business. So, you know, once we're working with

someone, solving problems with them, we make it an enjoyable

experience. And so that doesn't just help our clients, it

helps Our people. You want to go to work and have fun every day, right?

You want to laugh, you want to enjoy your job. So we have a lot

of fun. And, you know, of course, we stand behind our word and work.

It just, you know, integrity, quality, safety is all,

of course, part of our values. And then lastly, and

contributing again to having fun at work, we just love what we

do. I mean, come on, like you said, it touches

everything. And you get to learn about, you get to learn about

industries you never thought, you know anything about, how to

preserve paper, how water, drinking water gets treated and,

and how wastewater gets treated. All of these things sound crazy,

but they're fun. Yeah, man. There's so many different

directions I want to go, but I do want to, I want to stick to

my outline here. I mentioned to you earlier I wanted to talk just

a little bit about, you know, women in the AEC industry space. Right.

I'd be remiss if I didn't talk about the elephant in the room.

You personally have built a career that a lot of young women in this industry

would look at as a roadmap. Okay. And I mean, what do

you wish someone had told you early on about what

it actually takes to rise in this space?

You know, from your perspective? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Everyone's lived experience is different. And

I would say when I started as a project engineer, there

is nothing more I wanted than for people

to not know that I was a woman. I just.

But I never felt like I was treated any differently.

I don't feel like in my young career, being a woman

affected my experience. I think being a young,

inexperienced person is really what

affected my experience. And I'll say at that time,

I would say in general, say yes to everything

when you're young and experience. If a superintendent says, hey,

kid, come out, let's go look at this, go look at it with them. Ask

questions, be curious, Learn every day when your

boss says, hey, go to this networking event with me. Just go.

It's uncomfortable. But say yes to everything

when you're young in your career so that you can strategically

say no when you get into your career a little bit later.

You have other commitments and, you know, aging parents of

kids at home, perhaps, you know, self care, whatever it is,

say yes as much as you can when you're young so that you can

balance things a little better when you're older. And you know, I never thought

being a woman affected me until I was. Had physically

changed because I was having a child and I couldn't climb a ladder

anymore. To look and inspect things. So that's when I first

noticed it. And then, you know, having small children at home and

trying to balance the schedule and

work on a little bit less sleep. And that's true for men and women.

I had the pumpkin seed in the trailer on some Saturdays, that's for

sure. But I don't regret any of it. And I can say

to women, when your kids are young and you're feeling

torn about, you know, not spending enough time at home or.

Or your parents are aging and you're not feeling like you're spending enough time,

you have to persevere, and you have to just integrate

them into your work life. You know, I. I explain to my kids every

time I make a decision, and I have some boundaries or my. My

mom, you know, hey, I'm sorry, I can't make it to this because I have

a work event. Here's what the work event is, and here's how it

affects our lives. It really just provide the why

to all of them. And now my kids know, hey, I know you're there,

and I know why, and I appreciate you. And thanks for being an example.

I think they're not adults yet, but. Well, hopefully they're strong,

moral adults who will appreciate this life in the future.

I mean, that in and of itself is probably worth the price of admission

for this podcast episode, because what you're saying is, basically

is you even have to manage the expectations of your

children, of your family. And. And it goes without saying, right? We think that

we take that for granted so often, and I think in the workplace, a lot

of times, we don't manage the expectations of our peers, much less our family

members when it comes to work. And, I mean, what you just said speaks

volumes to why you've had such success. And while

I can't, you know, we don't know. I don't know, your personal life. I'm assuming

that a lot of it mirrors the success that you've seen at a

professional level. And I think that advice more than anything else

is supremely helpful for anybody that's trying to navigate the waters

of, you know, a career, career advancement, and

wanting to do the things that a lot of people want to do. Be a

parent and be a spouse or have a significant

other in your life. And, you know, how do you juggle all of that at

the same time? And, you know, as I like to say, life is messy. Whether

we like it or not, it is messy, but you can come to. You can

meet it with a plan, and you can Try to work that plan to

the best of your abilities. And I think honestly, that's what, what most of us

are trying to do on a regular basis. And it sounds like that's what you've

kind of leaned into throughout your career. Yeah, yeah.

And I think I don't want to discount. Look, everything I've done in

my career is because of I've had amazing people around me

both in my professional life and my home life. And

so just having great people around me, you know, I've gotten

to learn from some amazing superintendents, some amazing

leaders in the industry, some trade partners who are

willing to educate and put up with asking a

lot of dumb questions. And so in addition to, you

know, finding your balance and persevering, just never stop learning.

Because building those reps and getting some tacit knowledge around all of

the different things we do in the construction industry I think is a huge contributor

to the success as well. Yeah, absolutely. Lucas, you want to add

something to that? You look like you were chomping at the bit. No, I was

going to say, we know, we've said it a million. Like we've kind of danced

around it, that idea of mentorship and having good people around

you. And it kind of, it ties into this thing that I've been

thinking of is you've worked on so many projects in

your career. What does good culture look like on a

day to day basis, on a month to month basis on those

job sites or for those project teams? Right. And how do we

do it the right way? I mean, I think, you know, from

an approach perspective, we're super focused on

planning, accountability, supporting one

another, making sure everyone's rowing in the same direction

and making sure that we're all trying to solve the same problem, we're on the

same page and, you know, reaching out when you

need help. We make it very clear. Raise your hand if

you feel uncomfortable with, with a situation

or you're not sure how to handle it. There anyone. We don't have doors

on our office here for a reason because we're always

willing to help one another. And I think we're really flexible

when it comes to, you know, this is a family owned company and you

can feel just the dedication to

family, to all of the extended family, which is,

you know, we're accountable for our employees, families as well. Right.

We need to make sure we're sending these people home safe, healthy and

happy to their families. And you can feel that just in some of the

flexibility, whether it's working hours, whether it's

you know, events schedules, whether it's, you know,

family outings, we bring the families into Tarlton to

celebrate together. It's just there's a lot of engagement and

extension of the family and, and I think you can feel that the

second you walk in the door. Yeah, I love, I love that. And it does

make sense. And you know, as one of my good friends says, all the

time culture eats strategy for breakfast. So a good

culture will go a long way. So. Yeah, yeah, no, I,

I love that. Well, listen, I mean, you've been so kind with your time. I

did want to end on this one question because there were again, we could

have gone down so many rabbit holes in terms of this conversation. So we.

What I will say is it will probably put a comma at the end of

this podcast, meaning that we will have to pick it up at a later time.

But I did want to ask you one specific question and it's around your

board experience and leadership. And this is for a lot of design

professionals who are still early or in mid career and thinking about

board service in general. What would you tell them

about how to get started and what to expect when they

do? I'd be really interested to know your thought in terms of, as you

look at the arc of your career, when it came to board

involvement. Yeah, I think it starts for me at

least. And this is what I, the advice I provide on at the board

level as well. You really have to engage young people in

those, you know, young professionals committees

and different specialty committees and start to

build some emotional attachment to some of these, to the

things you're passionate about. Right. And I found, even with the Green

Building Council, you know, I served on some committees early

in my career and it was all around education. And

then there was a gap where, you know, I couldn't serve, I didn't have time

to serve. But then when as time became available, I

was able to return to that board and have foundational

knowledge of the mission of some of the activities that we do.

So my advice would be to get involved early on a committee

or young professionals club and start to network. It's a great way to

network too, and make some friends in the industry. Yeah, it

really is. I tell anyone, anyone that asks me, because I've actually been involved in

a number of boards and I mean, I know Zweig Group has made

it a point in the recent years to really talk about what board

involvement means and why it is something that any design

professional should try to seek out because it creates a much more

well Rounded individual. Right? Yeah. And I would, I would hearken to say

that you clearly have leveraged your board

experience and that is it has actually informed how you lead

both internally as well as externally there at Tarlton. So, I

mean, there is something to be said for it. And sometimes you don't get everything

that you need for your career just in the 40 hour work

week. And so you need to be involved. There are

going to be opportunities for you to serve other needs, other people,

other missions that will help to inform who you become

as an individual and will create the total person that you want to

see throughout your career. And I think you're a perfect

example of that. And so I appreciate you, you know, kind of sharing

your insight from that perspective. Well, thank you. And you stated

that so beautifully. I don't even know how to add to

it. That's what I do. So. But no, seriously, I thank you for that. I

appreciate that. But no. Sandra, is there anything left that you'd like

to add before we close out? How can people get in

touch with you if they're really moved by this episode or just want to connect

with you or, you know, better. Better yet, say, I want to work at Tarlton

and I'm willing to relocate to St. Louis if they

don't already live in the Gateway City. So I would love for you to kind

of share the best way for people to get in touch with you. Yeah, well,

I'm on LinkedIn. You can always call the main office at Tarlton

and find me here. And I'm happy to, you know,

if people have questions about careers in construction, if they have

questions about Tarlton, if they just want to talk about the beautiful

weather and how they might serve on a board, I'm happy to oblige.

So, absolutely. Well, we'll make sure all of that, your,

your LinkedIn profile, everything that, any points

of connection, social media profiles for Tarlton, all of that will be in

the show notes for this Zweigletter podcast episode. So we'll

make sure that everybody has access to that. But,

Sandra, it's been a real pleasure. And the next time that I'm in St.

Louis, because I have friends there, and like I said, it's just five hours from

Fayetteville. I will be looking you up and reaching out to say

hello for sure. Absolutely, I would love that. And thank you

so much for having me today. And if you find that I

didn't answer a lot of your questions or I veered off on too many tangents,

you know, I'm happy to follow up. So you were just fine. You were

just fine. So thank you again. I appreciate that. So listen,

I want to thank everybody for listening to this episode of the

zweigletter Podcast. If listening to today's episode sparked

something for you, whether it's a conversation you need to have at your

own firm, a board seat you've been putting off pursuing,

or just a reminder that the long game is worth

playing, I hope you'll share this episode with someone who needs to hear it.

You can find the Zweig Letter and everything related to

the aec industry@zweiggroup.com

subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We have new

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soon with another new episode of the Zweig

Letter Podcast. Peace. Thanks

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SA.