In this week's episode of the podcast, Sarah and Tazmin talk about how you can use the Pomodoro Technique to beat procrastination and improve your focus.

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The SEO Mindset is a weekly podcast that will give you actionable tips, guidance and advice to help you not only build your inner confidence but to also thrive in your career.

Each week we will cover topics specific to careers in the SEO industry but also broader topics too including professional and personal development.

Your hosts are Life Coach Tazmin Suleman and SEO Manager Sarah McDowell, who between them have over 20 years of experience working in the industry.

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Resources used for episode

• Study Pomodoro
• ASMR Weekly
• The Pomodoro® Technique | Cirillo Consulting GmbH

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Hello, it's me, Sarah.

And it's me, Tazmin.

And we are back for season 5. Did you miss us? Did you did you miss doing the podcast Tazmin?

So much. I'm so excited we're back again.

Yes, very exciting stuff that we are back. For season 5, and we're going to bring you more wonderful episodes. We've got quite a few great topics and guests lined up, haven't we? We.

Have quite a diverse range as well.

Yes, yes, definitely, definitely. So I'm very excitingly we have a seasoned sponsor which is the wonderful bright local, the all in one local SEO platform that helps businesses and agencies drive traffic and leahs from local search. Seo mindset. Podcast listeners can take advantage of an exclusive offer during this sponsorship, which is great. So yes, you can sign up for a free 14 day bright local trial at the SEO mindset.co.uk/bright local. There will be a link in the show notes and receive $75 in citation builder credits when you go on to take up a subscription at the end of your trial. So, Tazmin, do you wanna know what we're talking about in our first episode back?

Go and tell me.

So I'll be talking to you, yeah, discussing and teaching you and our listeners all about the Pomodoro technique. Which you can use to improve your focus and beat procrastination. How does that sound?

That actually sounds incredibly useful because I am suffering from a big, big bout of procrastination at the minute.

Wow, wonderful, wonderful. Great time in then. And before we get in today's subject, just want to let you know about the ways in which you can support the podcast so you can give us a one off donation via bias, a coffee and so we're linking there, show notes there. You can give us a one off donation, literally buy us a coffee, which would be very appreciative of. And you can also subscribe to the podcast on whatever platform you used to listen to your other podcasts. And then you never miss when new episodes go live. So shall we get cracking with this episode is Tazmin.

Let's.

Hello Tazmin.

Hello.

Can you believe that we're in season 5?

It's so exciting and and I'm I'm intrigued about today's topic when I read it and I read Pomodoro. Pomodoro. Is that how you say?

It pomodoro.

I thought, is this related to a pomelo which is one of my favorite fruits which I've already said on on this podcast, but it's not, is it?

No, no, no. So I mean, what's a pomelo is that?

I it's like a big grapefruit. It's got really thick piss, but the segments inside, they're not like super juicy. They're they're lovely, but they they don't like wet your hands when you're peeling it.

Yeah.

But but it's not as sharp as a grapefruit.

There you go. And that's your favorite food.

At the moment, yes it's, but they're slightly going out of season now, so. I think I'm going to have to move on to something else.

Well, Pomodoro is slightly different because it is a source and apparently, yeah, so you use it a lot in pasta. So obviously we haven't gone with bonkers people. We're not being a recipe show like the Pomodoro technique. Is something that's relevant. So hang in there. But yeah, the Pomodoro sauce is fresh tomatoes, herbs, garlic, onion and olive oil. So there you go. Sounds delightful, but yes. But what we're talking about is the Pomodoro technique, so not the sauce, unfortunately. As much as I'd love to talk about food, we are talking about the Pomodoro technique now. This technique was developed in the late 1980s by a university student called Francesco, and they were struggling to focus on their studies, so he often felt overwhelmed. So he asked himself to commit to just 10 minutes of focus study time, and he was so encouraged by the challenge, he found a tomato. Which is also Pomodoro in Italian. So obviously you've got Pomodoro sauce, but then also Pomodoro means tomato in Italian. So there we go. Not only are we a mindset podcast, we're also foodies and you learn some language. But yeah, he found a tomato shaped kitchen timer and from there the Pomodoro technique was born. So yeah, yeah. And yeah. So this university student went on to write 130 page book all about this method, right. So obviously we're not going to go through that whole book because we were, we like to keep our episode short and snappy, don't we? But yeah, the biggest, one of its biggest strengths of this technique and it's widely used. So interestingly, if you do just search Pomodoro in Google, like this technique comes up a lot because a lot of people talk about it, a lot of people have adopted and using it, but its biggest strength is its simplicity. So. You get A to do list and a timer. You set your timer for 25 minutes and focus on a single task until the timer rings. When whatever you're working on ends, Mark off 1 Pomodoro and record what you've completed. You then get to enjoy a 5 minute break and then after 4 pomodoros, 4 tomatoes. You take a longer, more refreshing restore trip. How do you say that word? Restore trip. Restore restorative. Help me out here. Rest anyway. Let's please say.

That you take a break to feel restored.

There we go. Thank you. So after you've done completed 4, you've ticked off 4 pomodoros. You can have 15 or even a 30 minute break. So initial thoughts Tazmin.

You know, I'm, I'm struggling with procrastination at the minute because I'm trying to do something that is quite new and quite daunting and it's ridiculous. The number of distractions I allow into my life, you know, they say remove distractions. I just seem to have them all around me. Yesterday what worked a bit was, I'd say to myself, OK to ask me, what's one thing you can do to move this forward? And I would just do that one step. Yeah. And then I'd walk down the stairs. And so, OK, what's my next step? And so maybe I'll create a technique called the stairs technique.

I mean, simplicity sometimes works. Everyone raves about this Pomodoro technique because of the simplicity.

I like the the timer and I like the fact that it's 25 and rather than a phone timer, maybe if it's a gadget. Sitting on my desk and I can see it ticking away. That might help. So I'm definitely going to give this a.

Go and also what I thought as well with a with a timer like an egg timer or something like that, because it's not on your phone either, you don't get sidetracked by notifications on your phone and stuff like that. So there's another, but yeah, and I think with this technique as well, I imagine. You'll be surprised of how much you can actually get done when you when you are focused for 25 minutes. Yeah. And obviously you need a bit of willpower, but I imagine that the more times you do this, the better you'll get. But that 25 minutes of focus and you're going until the timer goes. And you never know, like if you if you like gamification or if you like little challenges. It's also a little game as well. It's like how much can I get done before the timer goes off. So there's lots of nuances to this I think.

Yeah, yeah. If you set a task that you think, OK, this could take me 20 minutes or 25 minutes and it's almost like, can I beat the timer, can I get it done before the timer goes off?

100%, a 100%, yeah. And also, so obviously, and we'll go into more of this later, but some tasks will take more than one Pomodoro. So that's where, like you might say for one task you might assign 3 pomodoros. SO3 lots of 25 focus time. OK. So yeah, it depends on what you're tackling that day. So this technique, and I'm 100% like resonate with all of them and I imagine you will as well, Tazmin and also our listeners. But this is a great technique for those that find that what seems like a little distraction will often derail like whatever you're working on or even sometimes the whole work day, OK. You constantly work past the point of being productive, have lots of open-ended work that could take unlimited amounts of time. So I don't know, let's say you're putting together A blog post and there's so much like you've got to do the research, you've got to do the reading, you've got to do the planning and the structure, like all of that sort of stuff. Overly optimistic when it comes to how much you can get done. Yeah, like I think we can all be like this. Like I know that I am like in a day, I think I can get all of this done. Whereas with the Pomodoro technique, it gets you thinking, OK, this is the task and it gets you like chunking it down better and. This is great for those who enjoy gamified. So I said this early, didn't I? Gamified goal setting. So yeah, is there anything else that we're missing that this would suit or the kind of personalities or the kind of things?

I think all of those resume, maybe not the last one so much, but I I tend to think that I'm going to be able to get so much done and then a lot of my work is open-ended. That I don't, and it's all quite creative, so it's not punching numbers in the spreadsheets and then the calculations happen. It's let me write this creative thing and it can take a long time, but it doesn't really need to. And I think also because I enjoy it. I then stretch it out, but then I get frustrated because I haven't got my To Do List on distractions are causing more of a problem now than they used to be. Partly because I'm slightly obsessed with an Indian drama and I've never, I I tend not to watch anything that has episodes and series because I can't commit to that. But for some reason, this particular one, I need to know what's happened that day and I need to look at it on on Instagram because it's in India. We're like a few days behind here. So yeah, bad, bad distractions.

We've become so easy to be distracted as well with all the like gadgets, apps, screens that we've got that yeah it can, it can be hard to stick on a task and really focus really just be like in your work and doing what you're doing sort of thing. Okay right. So then we have, we've got the background of how. The Pomodoro Technique was born. We've discussed how to do it like yeah. And we've also discussed who this works well for as well. And you never know is our listeners are listening as well. They might think of other scenarios or other types of personalities or do you know what I mean? Like, who would suit as well? So that's pretty cool. So I reckon we take a short break, Tazmin. And when we come back, I will discuss more about how to implement this Pomodoro technique. So how to successfully yeah, use it and also like tips and hacks as well. Does that sound good?

Perfect. That sounds great.

Awesome.

That sounds.

We are back with Part 2. So during during the break, Tazmin, you were you seem to be looking quite intently at something. Would you like to share with the group?

The COGS are moving in my head with all this new information. How can I use it so I have two tasks on my To Do List which they sort of they are linked and I just can't seem to, you know, complete.

Them OK, I'm.

Over complicating it, I'm over analyzing and actually, you know what? Even when I send it off to the person I need to send it off, it's not going to be done. There will be a process of backwards and forwards, but it won't happen until I start actually sending her the information.

Yes, so.

I'm going to use this.

Ah, there we go. There we go. I love the proactivity now, the proactiveness. I'm really sorry. It's like what we're recording in the evening, people, and I've had a very early start, so my brain is a little, a little bit like mush. So words, I mean, I struggle with words at the best of times, but words, you know, when there's just a block and like the word is on the tip of your tongue and you just can't say it. It.

We we get what you're saying. Don't worry.

So fill in the blanks I.

Completely understood. No, I understood what you were saying.

OK. Right. So right. So we discussed in part one then that with the Pomodoro technique, it's about setting yourself tasks that last 25 minutes. Yeah, so. That is the core. That's the core principle. However, there are three rules that you kind of need to adhere to as well. Okay. So rule 1 is breakdown complex projects. So if you have a big topic or sorry if you have a big task that is, I don't know, put together a website page, right, that's. That's a chunky. That's a really big topic, a really big task to do. So First things first is you break that down into into smaller chunks, okay? So when you're putting together a web page, for example, First things first is doing your research. Yeah, SEO keyword, goodness, competitor, all of that stuff. Like. Then the next bit would be planning the structure. Then the next bit would be your content. Yeah? So with the big tasks, chunk it down and then that will help you assign how many pomodoros each bit needs. Okay? So if a task requires, I don't know, 8 pomodoros you're still adhering to. Like once you've done 4 Pomodoros, take a longer break, but then you get back into it as well. Yeah, if that makes sense. If you have lots of tasks. So let's say you've got lots of admin stuff. Like you've got to send an e-mail, you've got to tweet something, you need to chase something up, you need to call someone. Yeah, whatever it is if you have. If there's like single tasks that don't won't take a whole Pomodoro, you need to group them together. Yeah, if that makes sense. And then you can bash them out rather than like slowly do it over your work day and getting distracted and all of that stuff. And then yeah, the last rule is once a Pomodoro is set, it must ring. So you need to be focused. You need to do that thing. Until your timer, whatever, you've set up rings. So those are your 3 rules, yeah?

Yeah.

So questions Tazmin.

So I am going to use it as a container this 1st 25 minutes or a task for 25 minutes because so you know the course that I run revitalized. Yeah. I'm working with somebody to create a set of tiers, so it's like more building blocks rather than one big chunky course, and I need to send her the tier system, what's in each tier, and some pricing details because she's going to be updating the website. Now, I've already done most of the work, but it's that whole thing of being able to let it go. So I'm going to set myself a container of 25 minutes to send her the detail of the course tiers and the pricing, and that'll be my first 25 minutes. And the next 25 minutes after I've had a break will be about who is the course for? What are the outcomes, because it's all linked together. But that means in one hour I'll be able to complete that task. Move that plate over to her and then she can do what she needs to do and we move this task forward.

Wonderful, wonderful Gold Star Tasman, you are paying attention to my lesson.

I always.

Do OK, right? So last then I'm going to share tips, hacks of how to make the most out of the Pomodoro and I'm very sorry, I'm very hungry. Talking about Pomodoro and I love tomatoes. Like roasted in a sandwich in salad, flipping of them. And remember what is what is Pomodoro? What? Yeah, in Italian Pomodoro is yeah, what?

What? Because I thought it was a trick question she's just talked about.

Yes. I'm just doing that repetition, you know? So then it goes into the brain, right? So tips, hacks, plan in advance. Yeah. So what you want to get in the habit of doing is each day, plan out, your pomodoros plan out. Tasks. So look at, look at what you need to achieve that day, your big task, chunk them down, whatever it is, and work out how many pomodoros. Obviously this is a guesstimate, right? You're estimating how long it's going to be, but then it also helps you like because obviously, for example, if you're doing some research as part of. The project you could research until the cows come home. Do you know what I mean? Where is this will help you? Like be like a K I'm doing it until this time, so planning in in advance. So it's part of your morning. For example, in the morning I like to check my emails, check my slack, catch up and then then once I've done that I will then use the Pomodoro technique, look at what I need to do that day and then plan out my pomodoros. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm an evening planner.

So I do. You can do it in the evening before your before your work day, whatever works for you. That's when you need to be doing your planning. Tip 2 when before you hit your timer to start, switch off any distractions. Put your phone on. Do not disturb like, I don't know, put your. Slack channels your emails, your, your laptop on do not disturb. Do you know what I mean? Like if you have someone in if you're working from home, for example, like to stop people coming in and distracting you. Let them know, do you know what I mean? Like any distraction that you can think of that's going to pull you away from focusing. Deal with it, yeah.

So you know that my our youngest has moved out now, so we have the House to ourselves. Yes, her old room has become like another office for me. It's going to be my recording studio.

I wanna do my.

Courses, recording. And so I think I'm going to take myself into that room, concentrate, do my stuff and then come back.

Again, yes. Yeah, that's a great. That's a great technique, isn't it? For example, like some people I know. Love to listen to music. Like to focus. So before you hit your timer, get your music on. Get in the zone. Do you know what I mean? Anything that's going to take you away. Obviously you can't help if someone's at your door. There's an emergency. But you can at least mitigate some of these distractions, okay. And then the last tip is always give yourself a buffer, okay? So when when you are planning out your tasks. In advance and your pomodoros and how long it's going to be, always give yourself a bit of a buffer okay like and because what you got to think is if you're new to this technique as well knowing how long tasks are going to take isn't going to be easy. Do you know what I mean? And also new tasks and new projects come up all the time. So always like try and give yourself a buffer so be. Be realistic, but also a little bit generous with your pomodoros. Yeah, because remember, each Pomodoro is only 25 minutes, so yeah. And then yeah, also your break. So obviously after each Pomodoro you get your 5 minute break, and then after you've done 4 pomodoros you get a longer break. Try and do a break that's going to actually give you a break, give you a chance to recharge. So I don't know, stand outside, get some air, go for a walk. Hydration. That's another good one. Do you know what I mean? Think of things that will actually help you have a break. Yeah.

Yeah. And that could be part of your planning as well. Yeah. So think about things. It could be, I'm in this first break. I'm going to do some stretches. We've talked about in the habit stacking episode. We talked about finding those little pockets. Or it could be in this 5 minutes I'm going to put on that song and dance around the house or whatever it is, but you're planning how you're going to recharge before you go and do another, yes.

Some of the things that I thought of. So I've got a dog and one of those like the shorter breaks, I could go in first Benny for a bit. Can I? Yeah. And another one could be like a conversation. So if you. So wherever you work, if you're if there's other people, or if you went from home and there's someone in the house with you like, I don't know, like I might suggest, OK, one of my longer breaks, I might have a coffee break and a chit chat with Tash, you know who and stuff like that. So have a think about what breaks you want to do. And they also need to be like rewards as well. So one thing that I wouldn't recommend is that. These breaks are anything that's going to be challenging you. Do you know what I mean? Or anything that you that you're going to think I don't really want to do that. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And also like obviously I get that checking social and stuff, but like try and not be on your phone for a break as well. Like do you know what I mean? Have. Yeah have more restorative breaks and and what have you. The occasional check your phone, WhatsApp, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, whatever. But yeah, think. Plan out your breaks as well.

Don, I was gonna say right for my 5 minutes. I'll go on Instagram and see what's happened in the Indian serial drama.

Oh, you can do that. You could do that like, but just be, I suppose anything that ends up being like. Because phones, social media is very addictive. Will you end up going over 5 minutes? Do you know what I mean? Like yeah. So yeah. Thoughts about that last part, Tazmin.

So maybe if I get a timer for 25 minutes it's like a pomodoro and a mini timer that's like an olive that's a 5 minute, then it can time my breaks. And then I've got a theme going.

On I have a fear that you're just going to end up with a load of different timers, like all the different fruits and vegetables.

But in all seriousness, I think this, you know, so much of this we know already. It's wrapped up in a different way, and it's finding the combination of little mini techniques that work for you. But I think having that timer ticking in on my desk will make a big difference.

Yeah, definitely, definitely. I just thought of. So obviously this won't be relevant to all of our listeners, but there was that British TV show countdown and yeah, like.

Still is, so we've still got countdown.

How is it still going 2?

O'clock yeah. Has his lunchtime coinciding with countdowns. He watches it between 2:00 and 3:00.

So yeah, with those who don't know about Countdown, countdown's a game show, but basically people have a set amount of time to like, figure out number stuff or like, word stuff. But like, as the time it goes, when it comes to the end, there's a little do, do, do, do, do, boom. So maybe you could have a timer noise. Yeah, I make it bit more.

Exciting. I bet you you could find a countdown timer, yes, and set it for the amount of time that you want it to be.

Or if there's another game show that's similar that has like a countdown noise or whatever. But yeah, right Tazmin, what has been your key take away for today's episode, please?

I think for me, you know, as I said a lot of this, I already know for me it's going to be having that time on my desk and setting that container to say, all right, you're not going to do anything else but this one task in that set time.

Nice, nice, wonderful. Wow. That was our first episode back for season five. Would you believe it? Season 5. So yes, just a reminder of how you can support us and if you enjoy what me and Tazmin do, you can give us that one off donation via buy us a coffee. So if you there's a link in our show notes and basically if you click that it'll give you more information and yeah like how you can donate to us and yes also. Never miss an episode. OK, so earlier I said that quite a few of our listeners might not be subscribed. Why not subscribe? Because then you get notifications whenever there's a new episode. Sometimes we do bonus episodes. So, you know. So yeah, those are the couple of ways that you can support us, Tazmin.

Oh, you caught me off track.

Caught you off track.

You caught me off track all.

You have to do is say goodbye.

Goodbye wait caught me off track because I was about to. As you were saying about the listeners, I remembered that I just got a message from one of our listeners.

This is exactly she's.

Saying hi Tazmin and Sarah, thank you so much for the podcast. I'm grateful that you're addressing mindset issues. And I've learned so much.

Thank you so much. We need to get better at that cuz we get people emailing, tweeting, socializing. So maybe we need to get better at sharing that. So thank you. Thank you, Tazmin, right.

I'm back on track.

Now thanks very much.

Thank you very much for a very interesting episode, Sarah. It's brilliant. Thank you. Well, Sam and and did say goodbye for me.

Add a goodbye for me and until next time.

Take care.