Unlocking the Power of Stagecraft with Merit Khan: From Keynotes to Comedy

SUMMARY

In this episode of Present Influence, join John as he converses with Merit Khan, a dynamic speaker and performer, about the art of landing paid speaking engagements and refining your stagecraft. Merit shares insights from her journey, emphasising the importance of mastering sales skills to sell your talks before perfecting your stories. She discusses her diverse career, including keynoting for serious audiences, coaching sales professionals, and her one-woman show, 'Optimistic Personality Disorder.' Discover how improv, comedy, and understanding your audience can enhance your presentations and contribute to a thriving speaker ecosystem. Whether you are just starting out or looking to expand your existing speaking business, this episode offers practical strategies and inspirational stories to help you succeed.

Find out more about Merit at meritkahn.com or her one-woman show at opdshow.com

Here's the link to that article on why so many great speakers are broke: CLICK HERE TO READ IT

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview

00:40 Meet Merit Khan: Sales and Comedy Expert

01:36 Contrarian Viewpoint: Sales Skills First

03:30 Building a Business Ecosystem

06:19 Adapting to Market Needs

09:44 Balancing Multiple Business Ventures

17:55 The Importance of Sales Experience

22:35 Creating a One-Woman Show

24:44 Unexpected Connections and Personal Growth

26:09 Diving into Standup Comedy

29:35 The Power of Humour in Speaking

32:13 The Art of Storytelling and Performance

36:39 Personal and Professional Growth in Speaking

42:24 Lessons from Standup and Knowing Your Audience

46:25 Podcasting and Future Projects

49:33 Final Thoughts and Takeaways

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Mentioned in this episode:

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Optimistic Personality Disorder: A Journey in Comedy and Speaking

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[00:00:00]

John: Given that you're here with me now, there's a pretty reasonable chance that you are looking to get on paid stages or looking to get on more of them. Perhaps also you want to have stories that really stick and land and be able to get some laughs when you're up on stage as well.

John: But you might find that the booking pipeline isn't all that you would like it to be. That it can be very complicated and working on your authenticity of your stagecraft isn't the strategy that's going to fix it.

John: By the end of this episode, you're gonna have a much better idea how to sell your talks before you polish the story and fold comedy into your keynotes without trauma dumping, and build a speaker ecosystem that works in conferences, theaters, and clubs. My guest today is Merit Khan and. Merit has trained coaches and sales professionals for many years.

John: She's keynoted in some serious audiences and produced her one woman show called Optimistic Personality Disorder. She does a great job of blending sales, psychology, emotional intelligence, and she has some really good comedy chops as [00:01:00] well in translation. That means she knows how to get booked, deliver, and get rebooked, and that's what we are here to learn from her.

John: We get into why sales skills must come first, how to tune your offer so that the market actually wants it, and the role of improv and standup in your stagecraft. And how Merit tours a theater show that feeds her speaking business.

John: So grab yourself a cup, keep your notebook handy, and let's get into it.

John: Merit, I'm super happy to have you with me [00:02:00] on the show today. I've been looking forward to speaking to you. Welcome to Present Influence.

Merit Khan: Thank you, John. I'm happy to be here.

John: Well. I like to challenge my guests and I think one of the nice ways to, and an interesting opener hopefully for you is to just wonder whether there's, uh, an opinion or way something you teach about presenting or speaking that maybe is a bit contrary or different to what you hear other people saying out there.

Merit Khan: Well, I would say, uh, you know, I, I've certainly been around a lot of, uh, speaking coaches and, and things over the years, over my 20 plus years of, of being in this business. And, um, everybody wants to get right to working on the story. Like, what's your story? What's your message? What do you have to share?

Merit Khan: And. I think my perspective is why don't you first dive into what it really takes to get the stages. Like start with the selling part. 'cause if you are not ready to handle that part, if that part doesn't, um, call to you. [00:03:00] You know, if you think you're just, your phone's gonna ring, or some agent is gonna be interested in booking you right away, um, that, that's just not gonna happen in the beginning.

Merit Khan: So I, I would say my, the contrarian viewpoint I have is study sales and business development first. And as you understand what it really takes to be a professional speaker with longevity, um, then see if your message is something you really need to share in that particular way.

John: Yeah. There's a lot of that field of dreams mentality out there, right? If you build it, they will come. If you are talking like it don't work like that unless. I may, maybe there's a very tiny percentage of people who just have luck or somebody, the right person sees them or something like that, and things get started.

John: But I think that's such a tiny percentage that for most people just don't, just accept that's probably not gonna happen for you. And so there's a very practical side to the business that you need to, uh, be focusing in on. So I, I love that. That's a, a great way to start. [00:04:00] Merit, one of the things that made me especially excited to talk to you is that.

John: You have set up your business. I say we've got empire, but your your ecosystem of a business, your ecosystem of a business, uh, very much how you want it. And, and so I, I love, I love that you've done that, and I'd love if you could just show there's a bit about how that looks for you, like the different elements and how they have come together.

John: I know it's maybe a, a broad question that you could perhaps, uh, help to, uh, summarize for us.

Merit Khan: Well, um, I think there's a blessing and a curse to having a few different skill sets. I think there's keynoters that. Aren't really great in a training environment. There's trainers who get a big stage in panic. Um, I came up for the ranks from training, but because I had a, a background in, uh, acting and being on stages in, in a theater perspective, I, I was [00:05:00] comfortable as a, in a, in a keynote role as well, so I kind of was, was I had some different elements that I could play up or play down depending on, you know, what was needed for that particular client or opportunity. And then, um, consulting kind of came along into the picture and coaching.

Merit Khan: So, you know, all these things are, are related and you know, at the end of the day it's what's the message, what's the expertise that you have to share, and then what's the best way to communicate that? So it's not just I'm a speaker, which means I have something to say, but, but how I do it is only on, on a stage.

Merit Khan: It's, no, I have sales expertise, I have expertise about how you can be a more emotionally intelligent leader. Um, you know, I have, I have something to say about that. And depending on the environment that makes sense for the client, I can say what I need to say in a lot of different [00:06:00] ways. You know, we could, we could do coaching, we could do consulting.

Merit Khan: It's like, so it's all of those things. And I think my business really. It ebbed and flowed with what the marketplace was needing at the time. So sometimes over the course of my, again, 20 plus years, I, I started my business in 1998. It was primarily a training company at that time, and then it became more focused on speaking.

Merit Khan: And then, you know, the 2008, it was like, okay, well let's do some consulting. 'cause there weren't, you know, so it's, you know, and then COVID, it was like, okay, well let's just do coaching. So. It's, it's a little bit of, you know, here's what I have to share, marketplace. Um, how do you need it? How do you want it?

John: So, so,

Merit Khan: that's important.

John: yeah. So a lot of it's come about because you've been responding to what the market wants rather than just setting up how you want. Yeah.

Merit Khan: Yeah, a little bit. I mean, I remember right, right before COVID hit, um, I, I made a real concerted effort. I was really gonna go after more of the bigger stages and I really [00:07:00] wanted to grow. I wanted to dial up the keynote part of my business and then obviously. That was a terrible choice for that moment in time.

Merit Khan: So I'm like, all right, well, let's not be in an argument with reality, like that's gonna take a while to come back. So I just kind of dialed it back and then I was just like, turned the dial up on coaching and consulting and, and everything, you know, was fine. I, I, I. I weathered that storm. And then when that storm was over, it was like, okay, well what do I really wanna do now?

Merit Khan: Well now I'd like to do my theater show again and let's, let's lean into comedy. 'cause I think people need to laugh. And so it's a little bit of market driven, but it's also very much, you know, what am I called to do? How am I called to serve, um, people in this, at this time?

John: Yeah, which is a great look at it. I, I wonder if much like myself, uh, if you've encountered this of, uh, working with people who want to do these sorts of things, but do them all at kind of at the same time. They want to have all those different or some, or all of those elements [00:08:00] all at once with their business.

John: Have you seen that before?

Merit Khan: Um, I mean, I've, I've certainly done that. You know, it's like all these elements, you know, it's like you're doing everything. Like, what does everybody need from me? Like, I got it, I'll do it. Um, I, it feels a little chaotic. I think it's, it's been easier the times when I've kind of zeroed in on, you know, my offer at the moment is this, and we can.

Merit Khan: Expand on that, we can augment that. But primarily this is, this is the offer. And I think when there was more clarity about who I was serving and how I was serving them, then it, you know, the marketplace, marketplace loves clarity, right? So I think there were times I'll, I will freely admit the things that I made mistakes in.

Merit Khan: There were times when, might say to somebody like, well, what do you need? Like, I can do so many things. Wave your magic wand and what, what are you hoping for? And it's too much for them, you know, if they're already in a state [00:09:00] of confusion. don't wanna have to figure out how to pay me, how to work with me. So I think the times when I was just more clear, it's like, I can work with you in three ways. We can do this, we can do that, or we can do this other thing. And one of those is usually a, a better fit.

John: Which, which is a nice way to look at it. And I think if you, uh, if you offer them the Cheesecake Factory menu,

Merit Khan: It's too much.

John: they, they're never gonna be able to decide. But if you have some nice choices of that, generally people are gonna know which one they want. So if they have two or three, and you probably know which one you want them to take as well, then uh, it makes, it makes it a bit easier to direct them where to go.

John: But in terms of, in terms of doing that, I mean, um, when you're trying to build. Any business or any aspect of your business, the less focused you are on that? Well, I think if you're trying to build two separate parts of a business, like a speaking career and um, a consulting business as [00:10:00] well, at the same time, it is more work for yourself.

John: It is two separate things, and as you say, there's, there's crossover that can lead to some, uh, maybe a bit, a bit of diffusion when it comes to the clarity of your message. Yeah.

Merit Khan: Yes. And it's so fascinating that we're having this conversation. Are you sure you're not my therapist today, John? Because, um, I, I find myself, yeah. I'm personally like it. I, I, my business has gone through different iterations over the years as everybody who's been in business a long time does, I feel like every five to seven years I'm like, okay, what's new now?

Merit Khan: Like what? Now? What's next? Like, I, I wanna, I love creativity and I love inventing new things. And learning something and adding it to, to the, to the offerings. But right now, you know, I have, uh, I still have my speaking business. I speak on sales topics, uh, primarily, but I also, um, I do a lot with women's empowerment programs, things like that.

Merit Khan: I'm a great fit for [00:11:00] those. Um, I've done some, you know, a lot of leadership work over the course of my career and, and I still get. Inquiries about those events and speaking and training, and I love that. I love when my phone rings. I love. Deliberately going after those kinds of events. But I also have this one woman inspiring comedy show, and it's like my baby.

Merit Khan: It's, uh, I love it. It's, it's very, it's, it's like if a, a Ted Talk and a Tequila shot had a baby, it would be my show. You know, it's, um, like you learn something, but you, you came to an entertainment. Uh, you know, venue to, to laugh and to experience a, a, a theater production. And then you leave and you're like, wow, you're thinking about your own life.

Merit Khan: You're, you have some different ideas about what's possible for yourself, and, and I love my show for that. So. Right now I feel like I am building these two, these two [00:12:00] businesses. Right. Speaking is sort of, it's mature business and I've been doing it a long time, but I still wanna grow that. The money is very good, but I'd really like to tour my show.

Merit Khan: I am touring my show. I'm building a tour. I'm, I'm, I've already started it. It's, you know, I've, I've performed in New York and Chicago. And, uh, Florida and different places, and I, I, I want to take that more on the road, but it's, it's very interesting. So it's kind of like I have these, I have these three stages.

Merit Khan: I, I perform on, you know, conference stages, theater stages, and comedy clubs, and. Each one of them, like, let's take comedy clubs out of the arena for a moment. I, that's kind of where I, I hone my craft and I practice, and I, I love to make people laugh. And then it's super fun, but it doesn't pay great. But it's, it's fun.

Merit Khan: But my theater show and my conference work. Those kind of feed each other. So if you're in my conference audience, you will [00:13:00] know at some point in the program I will talk about, I have this one woman show and I hope that people who are in those audiences wanna go see the show. If you are in my theater audience, you get a playbill and it will have information about having me as your keynoter.

Merit Khan: So, you know, I think there's always some overlap in what's, what's the, the, um. The through line is really the messaging, the message that I share. I share it in a conference appropriate way, and then I share it in a theater, entertainment appropriate way. It's kind of this like, I am who I am, what I share is what I share,

John: Yeah. And, and that's why I use the word ecosystem. It is, they're all, they're all kind of tied together. They're all part of the, the whole of your business. And, um, the, the relationship part of that is very important. And I do think it's also, I do think it's different when you are somewhat established with a businesses, there's always gonna be more work in adding those new bits on.

John: But I think for those who may be [00:14:00] tuning in, who, um. Getting, trying to get started with that. If you try and get started with all those things at the same time, it, you're gonna be spinning your wheels a lot. Uh, and that's one of the things I definitely would try and avoid. It's very different to build onto what you've already got, uh, than it is to just try and try and achieve everything, uh, from zero to 60 on all of those.

John: In, in one case. Most people are never gonna do that. Um, but, uh, but beyond that, I mean, what, what you're doing I is definitely interesting and I really want to. Take a look at the humor and comedy bit in, in, in a little while, but before we do, I want to, uh, find out from you, like what, well, you said a little bit about what got you into keying.

John: How did you start to figure out what you wanted to do as a keynote speaker? What made you sort of think, oh, this is what I want to do professionally and get money for that? And then what, who am I gonna talk to and what am I gonna talk about?

Merit Khan: Uh, I think, uh, I think it was probably in a, in a Tony Robbins [00:15:00] seminar and I'm like, I would like to be the very tiny, you know, female version of what he does. Like I'd love to do that. And I just was always a student of personal growth and courses and I took sales training classes and sales management trading classes and I just, I'm always.

Merit Khan: Just interested in learning as much as I can about myself and other people. Um, and I, I think the speaking, I mean, I just, I gravitated to it. I, I, I just thought like this is the perfect combination of everything I love to do, and it, it was a really great fit for me. Um, still is, and I, I don't know. I. Did I answer your question or did I dance around that?

John: Well, how did, how did you figure out who you wanted to talk to and what you wanted to talk to them about?

Merit Khan: I, I think that really grew up out of the sales training that I was doing. So I was in, um, I was in radio advertising sales, uh, [00:16:00] and I had an opportunity to be a manager for a new startup radio station. And in that capacity, I, all of a sudden, like overnight, I was hiring pe like I learned how to hire people and lead manager meetings and things like that.

Merit Khan: Now. Fortunately I had, I have great parents and my dad always taught me, you, you dress for your next job, you train for your next job. So as soon as I was a sales executive, I, I put myself through management classes, having no experience in that or. Or any openings or any reason to apply to anything. I just thought at some point I'll be a manager, so I better start learning it.

Merit Khan: I wanted to also be a better, um, you know, salesperson for the manager that I was working for. Like, if I understood a little bit more about what his, you know, responsibilities were, than I could be a better. You know, worker bee. So that, that was always my, my [00:17:00] theory. And I took some management classes and then my manager in the radio station actually left and he worked, he opened up a sales training franchise and then the radio station where I was the manager, um, got sold.

Merit Khan: I was looking for what's next for me, and he said, I think you would be a great trainer. And so I became a sales trainer. So we were just a really good combo working together. And, and that's where, you know, I really learned a lot about the powers of influence. And I studied influence with the Cialdini group and I studied emotional intelligence and I studied about, you know, getting better referrals.

Merit Khan: And I, I had a lot. You know, different things that I was interested in. And so I, in that sales training, coaching role, I was speaking to get business for my coaching and consulting business. And so all of [00:18:00] these things were starting to come together and that's where, you know, my audience was business people and sales professionals more, more specifically. Sale, and this is still my audience, you know, people that sell something complex, creative or um, you know, com like difficult, you know, it's like, yeah, not, not click here, buy now, but

John: So, so you kind of went into it pretty much knowing where the, where there was a market. Yeah. You, you knew where there was need and where there was a market, which I think is definitely a big advantage when, when you get into that, you know, I, I, I always say I, I love what you're saying about your sales experience as well, because I, I do see one of the biggest challenges for people who are, you know, for speakers and coaches and anyone who's in these sorts of areas.

John: Um. It can be if you don't have that sales part that you are just kind of waiting for, waiting for people to show up or hoping someone refers you and, and you're not actively out there getting the bookings in. And people who have that sales [00:19:00] experience and background tend to just know, well, this stuff has to happen.

John: Sometimes they're really super keen and, and will make it happen, but they at least know that tho those elements have to be there. Which is like you were saying right, right at the start of the show. So super,

Merit Khan: say one more. I'll say one more thing about that. I think it's the difference between, you meet somebody, let's say at a networking event or something like that, and you say they, you know, like, what do you do? And they're like, I'm a speaker. I, I got this paper cut one time. It changed my life. I had all these amazing insights and I love to share.

Merit Khan: I love what I do. I love, you know, making an impact for people. That's one thing. Or you could say, you know. I work with people who are so good at what they do. They're just so frustrated because it should be easier to get business than it is. And so I work with them so that they're not lowering their prices, they're not dragging their sales process out, and they feel more confident and, and in control of their business and their life,

John: Yeah, and

Merit Khan: you know?

John: much [00:20:00] more clearly. Yeah.

Merit Khan: Right. And so when somebody's like, oh my gosh, like how do you do that? I'm like, well, I could do that from a big stage. I could do that in a small training room. I could do that on a one-on-one coaching call. That doesn't, you know, like how I do that Doesn't matter. The fact that I know very clearly what I do, that matters.

Merit Khan: And I think that's the problem. And that's why I said, you know, you really have to understand sales before you go and craft your perfect story. 'cause no one's gonna want your perfect story until they know what's in it for them.

John: Yeah. Yeah, I was, I was very fortunate to get a, uh, when I decided, well, a few years back there after COVID that I wanted to work in podcasting full time for a while. I dunno why just. It was in my head and I got a job with a podcast training company in their sales team. And, and I dunno how I got that with very little sales experience, but I did.

John: And, um, and that was, I, I see it as being like a, it was a paid, I was being paid and trained at the same time in something that, um. Felt like, uh, it was like a, a mentorship [00:21:00] really. It was like work experience. It was so necessary that I needed that to, to come out and do the things that I'm doing now. Um, it was, it was a missing element for me.

John: Do you have a recommendation for people who maybe also feel, I think I might be missing that somewhat as well, is what, is there something that you could suggest for them to start taking action on there?

Merit Khan: I mean, yeah, there's definitely. Um, I mean, there's still companies that they, they have the content. You just have to learn their content and then you go out and they train it like they, like send you places and give you a small fee. It's not like speaking fee money, but it's, you know, it's something to. To really get that process of it.

Merit Khan: But I think, you know, any sales job is, is valuable, particularly something in a consultative world. You know, if you're, if you wanna grow a speaking business, you're not, you don't want a sales job to, you know. Sell me [00:22:00] this pen, right? You know, you don't want something that's price sensitive and things like that.

Merit Khan: You want to be in, you know, get, get some experience, get some training and experience selling something that's consultative, complex, and creative. And when you understand the elements of how to be persuasive and ask good questions. That makes a really big difference in your ability to sell yourself later on.

Merit Khan: Um, you know, I feel like you, I feel like in, in, in some sense all of the speaking and the sales training and management experience and all of those experiences that I had really set me up to produce my own theater show. You know, it's, it's one thing to, to write a show and perform a show, but. There's a lot of actors that don't know that they can't be their own producer.

Merit Khan: Well, I can and that gives me a lot more flexibility. Um, and opportunities [00:23:00] be to be profitable in that world where many people can't.

John: Yeah. And, and was the, was, was the show something that's like been in your heart and mind for a long time, just like right now's the time to do it, or did it have a, a different genesis?

Merit Khan: Um, you know, I, I, it's so interesting to me because I feel like I've seen so many good keynoters, the keynoters. Uh, that I've been able to experience. The, my favorite ones were always kinda storytellers, very polished. You know, they had their program pretty set and, you know, my style of keynoting was a little bit more free flow.

Merit Khan: Like I had my main points and all of those, but I, I was very much like, I still am like, you know, like, let's go with the flow on. What I'm called to say for this particular group. So I always really liked the idea of something a little bit more like scripted and rehearsed. Um, those were kinds of keynotes that I really liked and the theater show came about.

Merit Khan: I actually wrote it for my [00:24:00] 50th birthday, which, uh, was, oh, several years ago now. Um, but it. It was really meant to be the, the idea started as, I'm gonna do 50 minutes of standup comedy for my 50th birthday. I'm gonna just rent a bar, pack it with my friends. And that was it. Nice, clean and simple. And as I started working on the material, um, I was going over it with my father who had a background in directing, uh, children's theater.

Merit Khan: And he said, you know, I don't, I don't see this as a standup set. I see this as. A theater show, you know, you can bring in that story you tell on stage in your keynote and bring in this other story, and all of a sudden I thought. Oh wow. Yeah, this could be a show. And then it was costumes and props and the set and the whole thing.

Merit Khan: And it just got outta hand really quick. Um, but it's, it was beautiful and I thought it was gonna be a one night only experience and I got off the stage and I got more compliments from that piece [00:25:00] than any of the other work that I had done. Um, and it, you know, people were saying how it was impactful to them and what they got out of it.

Merit Khan: This one woman said, you know, I, I talked about a journey back to who I've always been, and she said, I could relate to that. And I, I watched her, she's on my testimonial video reel, and I'm like, I have no idea who this woman is. Like, she was a friend of somebody that I knew and got into the theater. I've never seen her before in my life.

Merit Khan: And she got it. Like she understood what the piece was about, and it just makes me feel like I have something bigger to share and that maybe all of the experiences I've had to this point were specifically to get me to this moment in time where I could take that message and really share it.

John: Yeah, I love that. And I, I see things like that in my, in my own journey of like, uh, the podcasting ties in pretty well with pretty much everything else I'm doing. Uh, the keynoting, the [00:26:00] training and, you know, turned my hand to writing books, although nothing, nothing's published just yet. Um, but you know, the got, I think when we spoke before, I said about getting into, I've been getting into open mics this year and, um.

John: And that's been a whole journey as well. But it all just fits so well and all these things that have been on my journey that, you know, places that I've worked and it's just felt like, like you say, it's all part of setting you up for what you can then go on to deliver. And, and it, it's a journey of expansion, but also, as you say, it is like really the core of who you are comes through in, in all of that too, which I, which I really love.

John: Can I ask you a bit about the, the comedy? I mean, what. How did you get started doing, uh, doing standup?

Merit Khan: I took a standup class. It was a weekend long. It was, it was, it was two weekends. And then we did a performance and we worked with this professional comedian. She'd been touring for 30 years. Um, and I took [00:27:00] the class because I wanted to learn how to write a tighter joke for my keynotes and. At the, the graduation, if you will, for the class was you did a comedy set of original material at a real club and all the participants in the class, you know, brought, brought their friends and family.

Merit Khan: So we had probably 300 people in my very first comedy audience ever. I was glad that I had a lot of stage presence. From my background and my professional work, but I will tell you, there was nothing scarier. There was never a keynote, and I've keynote it for thousands of people. I have never been so scared as to take the stage with 300 people in the room to hear seven minutes of my original standup material, and it was, her brand of comedy was very personal.

Merit Khan: So it wasn't like, you know, what's the deal with old people backing out of the driveway? You know, it was like, you know, you have to [00:28:00] reveal something that you've never shared with people. Something that was important to you, painful for you. You know, something that you're ashamed of or afraid of. And when you go through that process of ringing it out and finding the funny in something that was difficult, then.

Merit Khan: And you express that in humor on a stage, it just breaks you open in ways you just, you've never experienced. And that. To me, like when I got off the stage, I thought, oh my God, I have got to do that again. And then I did what anybody would do with that feeling. I completely ignored it for two full years. I just was like, that was amazing.

Merit Khan: And I'm never doing like, I can't do that again. Um. But two years later, I found myself going through a divorce and I was writing a lot about how frustrating that whole experience was. In fact, it, it's really funny because, um, my whole marriage was very [00:29:00] challenging. We'll, we'll use that word. And, uh, and I had been writing and writing throughout my marriage about different challenges.

Merit Khan: And it was funny because in my journals as I was going through the divorce, I'm like, I, you know, I really feel very upbeat about this. I think we're really gonna get through this divorce. I, I think we're really gonna be friends at the end of this. I, I just feel so good about this. And then I looked at it and I thought, oh my God, I'm the one with the problem.

Merit Khan: Like. What, what world do I think I had a 17 year really difficult marriage and my divorce is gonna be easy. Like, who am I kidding? Like I think I have optimistic personality disorder and I, I wrote it in my journal and then fast forward years later, that's the name of my show, optimistic Personality Disorder.

Merit Khan: Because as I was writing the show, I realized, oh, I have always been glass half full and silver linings and sometimes. A little to a fault. Like sometimes I take it a little too far and I need to see the [00:30:00] reality of a situation, but I think it's always been a, a superpower of mine to find the humor and.

Merit Khan: And that's basically the message of the show is like we all go through ups and downs. But you know what's funny about this? And the sooner you can find your funny, the, the lighter and more playful you can be, and actually brain sciences, when you're, when you're relaxed and you're fine, you're laughing, you're, your neurons are firing differently.

Merit Khan: You have more space capacity to come up with new solutions. So humor is really not a nice to have. It's really necessary, especially when you need creative solutions to complicated problems that you know, you're just not gonna get those answers when you're, when you're stressed out and you know, in the thick of the fight.

Merit Khan: But if you can relax and get to the, the funny. You might have some new solutions that you never really thought of.

John: Yeah, I, I, I [00:31:00] do think it, it's so important for speakers, and I've said many times on, on this show and in other places as well, that I feel that sometimes some speakers, especially those who are very sincere, very early speakers, um. Struck sometimes forget that there's a big entertainment factor in speaking, that you do need to keep your audience engaged and, uh, and entertained throughout your keynote talks because it's a long time to be listening to someone.

John: You know, even Shakespeare knew that you had to throw in some comic relief into a tragedy, right? Because it's a, because it's a long time for people to get through that. So change the pace a little bit. We needed that as one. It also gives more impact to what we do. And, and one of the things I said to you that, uh, I think we agreed on when we, when we chatted before was about how that I, I do feel now that.

John: Having done more open mic and more right. With a more comedy material that the growth that I've been experiencing, the change that the difference it's been making for me makes me think this is something [00:32:00] that anyone who's doing, speaking in some professional way should do as part of their journey to speaking.

John: I don't, like you said before, it's kind of not optional. It, it's something that we should do, even though it's very scary for a lot of people.

Merit Khan: Absolutely. I, and I think there's more than just standup. I, I, I've taken, um, improv comedy classes as well, and that helps you in a lot of different ways because you just really never know what's gonna happen on a stage. You never know, you know, if you do any sort of interaction in your keynotes or your training, then you have to be ready to play off of people's responses.

Merit Khan: You know, let somebody else have that moment in the spotlight and be the funny one. And like, there's just a lot. So I think, you know, people that just study speaking or the business of speaking without really understanding, you know, there's story, an art to storytelling. There's an art to. You know, a standup joke.

Merit Khan: There's an art to improv, there's just, there's an [00:33:00] art to, you know, body language and, you know, just movement on a stage. And so there's just a lot to, to, uh, incorporate into that separates the top performing keynoters from the folks that are just, you know, like I have a message to share with the world and, you know, bring me in.

John: No, a hundred percent that, you know, I've, I've done a number of, um, storytelling competitions over the last year as well, and, and I found that that too is like, that challenged the comic part of me to sort of tighten that down a bit. Not everything has to be a joke. Sometimes you, you can, um. Tell a story without, without, you want humor in there in some places, but sometimes you have to stop trying to rely on the jokes and always put them in there and actually tell a story and have some heart connection in there, and some different emotional things coming up too.

John: Um, but you know, I, I know there's people who even do that in their comedy routines as [00:34:00] well. Improv definitely something I want to do, uh, more of as well. I have some experience with that, but not as much, as much as I'd like. I think they're all critical skills that improve how you show up on the stage.

John: The stagecraft as well, that you're talking about the movement, there's, there's all these different aspects that probably none of us will ever master all of them, but. We should aim to be doing. We should aim to be doing all of them and to be improving in those areas as well, where we're not so strong. If we want to be at the top of our game.

John: If we want to be one of those people that people look at and say, oh wow, they're amazing. You have to go and see them. You have to go and hear them speak.

Merit Khan: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's just even just understanding them. I mean, you know, I, it's funny because I took an acting class, it's been many, many years since I had taken an acting class, and I took one just recently. Um, and, you know, I really, and I worked, I hired several different directors to help me with my show.

Merit Khan: And it's funny because it's like somebody said to me like, so [00:35:00] let me get this straight. You're taking acting classes. To perform your show better and your show is really you, so you're taking acting classes to be more you like, that feels weird. And I'm like, that, that is a little weird. Like that's not, but you know, there's, the show has so many layers to it and I don't ever want it to feel like, like you would never feel like I'm acting, I'm really just talking to the audience.

Merit Khan: But there are just, there's some moments where I'm going back in time and, and sharing a story and. I think what the acting classes helped me to do was to just give me a little bit of freedom to tell it in the way that it really authentically feels. But I think prior to the acting classes, I, I was, I was acting the story.

Merit Khan: Does that make sense? And what the class did was it reminded me to share the story in a non-acting way. So it's sometimes [00:36:00] it's a little counterintuitive, but, but that's why I think, you know, if you're really a serious professional about the business of speaking, then you're going to, you are going to train yourself in the modalities that, um, show up on your stage in that performance, you know?

Merit Khan: Just like any athlete is gonna go to the gym and they're gonna work with, you know, coaches and physical therapists and massage therapists, and they're gonna have their whole, they need to understand the body and, and how to feed it and how to move it and all of that and how to rest it. And as speakers, we need to understand the principles of all the different, um, types of performance that go into our programs.

John: Yeah, doesn't, doesn't sound so much like a soft skill when we talk about it like this. Does, it sounds pretty intense, but it is, it's a multifaceted, multifaceted, um, business and, and, uh, activity that, um, that has so many different parts to [00:37:00] mastery. And as that, I mean, there, there's a lot of, a lot of professional growth through all these things, but I also.

John: In my experience, there's a lot of personal growth that comes through these journeys as well. And I wonder for you, what do you feel has been your own personal journey of growth, um, through, through the, your speaking career in its many forms.

Merit Khan: Uh, I would say definitely when I started my business, it was, uh, it was a journey of entrepreneurship. I, I had no idea. I, I did not come from a family of entrepreneurs. I. Um, you know, really had no idea. I, I worked for a company, you know, if you were out of paperclips, you went to the storage closet and there was paperclips.

Merit Khan: You know, I didn't know that, oh wait, like I'm, I'm running the show here. I have to, you know, everything. And so that, I think was a, a big learning piece. Um, it was interesting. It was a different, um, [00:38:00] mindset to sell. A product, even if it's a service. Like I was selling training and even though I was the one of the trainers and coaches in the, in the office, it was the program that you were buying.

Merit Khan: I was kind of interchangeable. Like, I would be your coach if I, if I enrolled you, and that was great, but. I was a little, I was like one removed. Whereas with speaking, I am selling myself. It's, you're buying my message from me in this way. And so there was a, a lot of growth, a lot of, you know, battling self-doubt and who am I to do this and imposter syndrome and all the things.

Merit Khan: But you have to, you have to believe and with such conviction that you're the right. Choice for that particular audience, for that particular event. And then you, you close the deal and you're like, I hope I'm the right choice for that particular audience. And that you're like, and [00:39:00] that happens every time.

Merit Khan: That never went away. Never went away. Still to this day, I'm like, I, I've got a event I'm doing next week, and I'm like, hope I'm the right choice. You know? It's like, but I've been working on it and, and I've interviewed them and I know for damn well sure I'm the right choice. But Wow. You still, you still have that.

John: But do you, do you think that's healthy? Is it potentially a positive thing to have that little seed of, uh, doubt or insecurity? Does it, does it help you to keep growing and keep that know? I. To have that intensity of like, have something to prove to myself and maybe to them as well. And, um, that it actually keeps you more on your toes than you might otherwise be.

Merit Khan: I, I definitely agree with that. I think, you know, every time I always said, and I think I had a mentor who said this originally, you know, she said, um, if you, if you get on a stage and you're not nervous. Then that you should stop being on stages. You should. She, she's been doing this for 40 some odd years.

Merit Khan: One [00:40:00] of the highest paid, um, professional women speakers out there on the circuit. Like, uh, Connie Podesta, she's amazing. Um, but, you know, she, she would always tell me like, the moment, I'm not, like, I don't have a little bit of a butterfly right before, that's the moment I'm done. You know, she knows her program.

Merit Khan: She's been doing this, you know, forever. She knows the moment they hand her the microphone and she's doing her thing, like the butterflies are gone 'cause she's in her zone. But I, so yeah, I do think it's healthy. I, I just think that I can, I can recall times in my career when I took a job that I wasn't actually sure I was the best fit for.

Merit Khan: Um, for whatever reason, I had a hole in my calendar, I needed money. Like, right. Like there's a million reasons. Um, and those were the times where it wasn't just enough self-doubt to, [00:41:00] you know, to keep me sharp. It was like legitimately, like, I really don't know if this was the right choice. And. I made it work and I've never, uh, I had one time in my career out of all of the programs I've done for more than 20 years, one time when, uh, I, we were on such different planets, like I did all the right interviews and all the right conversations to set me up and understand their audience, but it was the first time that they were, um, doing their event in this particular way.

Merit Khan: And, um. I think the, the person in charge really didn't know what their audience would really appreciate, and so we kind of leaned into something that was a little bit more entertainment focused. 'cause usually I'll ask people, do you want like entertainment engagement or education? Like, of those three things, what's the mix like?

Merit Khan: I'm gonna give you all three, but do you want. [00:42:00] 70% entertainment, 20% education, 10% engagement. That's a different program from 50% education. You know, like, like, let's get it right. And I literally would take all my material and based on their kind of percentages, I'd be like, okay, I need a few more jokes here, or I need another engagement exercise here.

Merit Khan: And so we built this based on his, his coaching for me. But the audience. Didn't respond as we had anticipated. And I think that was, you know, and he and I did a, a debrief afterwards, and it was like, okay, we kind of missed the mark on what I thought the audience needed, which is why the program wasn't a hit.

Merit Khan: And so maybe it's me, I should have asked a few more questions or whatever. Right? Like, so that, you know, I think every speaker, if you're speaking long enough, you're gonna have one of those stories where you, you missed it,

John: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, especially if you do standup, right? I mean, you must have, we all have, uh, those experiences of [00:43:00] bombing bombing on the stage and it's like, well, what, what do you do about that? What do you do when, uh, how do you come back from that? Uh, but you do, uh, 'cause you kind of have to, right? And, and, but they're, they're good because they, they show you that it's not always gonna be, it's not always gonna be easy.

John: It's not always gonna be the same audience. It's not always gonna, uh, work the same way. You, you are not always gonna show up exactly the same.

Merit Khan: Well, I've, I've learned a lot of lessons that have helped my speaking career from doing standup. I, uh, I had some business in Toronto. I was gonna be there for a week and. While I was in town, I thought, let me just go to a comedy club. I'll see if they, if I can get five minutes on their stage, you know? And so I call this comedy club randomly and they said, yeah, Wednesday, you know, we have, um, non-professionals.

Merit Khan: You can come up and we'll give you five minutes. I'm like, great. Now, at that time, all my jokes were about my, you know, marriage tanking, and. Uh, I don't know about you, but I didn't [00:44:00] really figure it out until later that the only people that are in a comedy club on a Wednesday night at about 10 o'clock are not married people.

John: Yeah.

Merit Khan: they are not married people. They are 20 somethings, you know, that just got done with their shift and they're taking the edge off before they go home or whatever. Um, but, and also Toronto, so these people were very nice and my comedy was very mean at that time. so I totally bombed and it was, I, I can remember, I can picture these women.

Merit Khan: There are two women sitting in the front row. I'm doing my set and one woman says to the other, and I can hear her, um, she's kind of mean, and I'm like, oh my God. Nothing is landing. Nothing is landing. Now, what I learned from that was I. I don't have the breadth of material to be able to adjust my set for the audience.

Merit Khan: So if I'm [00:45:00] doing a Wednesday 10 30 at night. Set. I'm gonna, now I know I'm gonna go with my dating stuff that's more relatable to that audience. Um, I also, I perform now with a group called Moms On Hinge. We travel the country, we sell out big theaters, four or 500, 600 seat theaters, and most of that audience is women, middle aged women just like me and.

Merit Khan: They love my marriage and divorce jokes. They love my parenting jokes, but I am not taking my parenting jokes to the downtown Denver Comedy Club where most of the audience has been.

John: right.

Merit Khan: You know, and, and how that relates to speaking is know your audience, know what they need, make your humor or your, and your stories relatable to them.

Merit Khan: So even in my keynotes, like there was a time when in my keynotes I, I had a story that I told about my son and it was like, okay, you know, that's. It's good, it's a good story, but [00:46:00] it, it wasn't as good a story as a story that I had about, um, somebody that was new on my management team, right? So it's like, you gotta, how personal can I be?

Merit Khan: How, you know you wanna be relatable, but, so basically know your audience is a really good principle for anything.

John: Yeah. And I think you really did a nice job there of illustrating exactly why and how to know to know your audience and. I think that also highlights how as speakers we do need to have that flexibility and adaptability, that it's not just writer, write a talk and learn it by, by heart, be able to do it by rope, but to be able to adapt things and say, as you said, we need a bit more jokes in here, a bit more story or change the story for that audience.

John: Uh, it's important to be able to have that. A lot of that will come with experience, but we should try and have as much of that upfront as we can. I know on top of all these things you do, you, you have a podcast as well. Can you just [00:47:00] tell us a, a little bit about that?

Merit Khan: Yeah, I'm actually, we're not currently recording new episodes of the podcast, but it's still out there. It's called The Smarter Sales Show. I did that with, uh, co-host Julie Holmes. Um, we did that, that was a kind of a COVID project. Um, lasted a, a couple of years. Um, but we, she's really savvy with a, a, all things technology and I'm really all about, you know, technique and people skills.

Merit Khan: So it was the tech and technique to sell more and stress less. And so, um, it, the content that's out there is still very, very relevant and very good. And we ended up, we did a joint keynote together, um, out of that podcast. That was really fun to do. And yeah, I think the world of Julie and she's, uh, yeah, so that was the smartest sales show.

John: Awesome. Mary, you, you've been an absolute delight to having the show. If anyone in a our listener would like to know a little bit more about you or maybe come and see your show, what's the best way to, to find out more [00:48:00] information?

Merit Khan: Uh, so there's two different ways. Um, maricon.com, M-E-R-I-T-K-A-H-N. That's all things speaking. So if you. You know, anything you wanna know about me coaching, my consulting, my speaking business, that's all the Merit Kahn site. Um, my theater show is called Optimistic Personality Disorder, um, which you could do optimistic personality disorder.com, which is really, really long.

Merit Khan: Or you could just put OPD show.com and get all the information about, uh, the tour and you can put in your, um. Contact information with your location and um, if I get enough people that are from that area, I will bring the show to you.

John: Awesome. Well, I wish you every continued success with all of that. Is there, is there anything, uh, on your horizon like new creative project projects you're thinking about?

Merit Khan: Uh, I think really what's, uh, on my mind is, is touring the show. I actually, um, created, uh, something I call the [00:49:00] work show experience. So the show is. Um, you know, the, the theater component of, you know, that sparks, it's, it's, if you think of it, it's kind of like the keynote, right? It's like it sparks your ideas that more is possible, that you can make different choices in your life, or you can change the narrative of your own past to create a different future.

Merit Khan: And that's, that's a, a, a strong message in the show. So. I created the work show experience, which is either virtual or live, but it's a two day workshop where I take people through the process of what I did to create my own show and rewrite the stories of my life to give me more power of over my future.

Merit Khan: And I walk people through those same experiences. So that's where I said like some of my training and all of those things, you know, really came together so that it's not a show, it's not a workshop, it's a work show experience.

John: I love that. I love that. That's fun. That sounds fantastic. I hope people will definitely go and check that out. Merit, thank you so [00:50:00] much for coming and being my guest today. You've been a delight and I hope we get to speak again.

John: One of the things I really like about Merit that definitely admire as well, is how she's created a business the way that she wants it, with the elements that she wants to have there. And something that I'd certainly see that, I hope we all look at that and say, well, it doesn't have to just be one way. It can be in the way that works best for you.

John: Great content without bookings is ultimately just a diary full of someday. And comedy without craft can end up in chaos. So you need both influence and infrastructure. You've heard from Merrit how she sells before she scripts. She adapts material to the room and she turns theater shows into a lead engine, something I had never thought of before.

John: So you can steal the playbook, clarify the offer, learn consultative selling and practice funny in low stakes rooms like open mic nights. A terrifying, terrifying idea. I know, but so [00:51:00] valuable. Mart's show Optimistic Personality Disorder is on tour.

John: Probably a bit far away for me to get to see it, but if you are in the locality and has showed it's coming anywhere near you, just know this Merit's clients keep bringing her back because the blend of sales sense and stage sense works.

John: If this episode has helped you in any way, make sure you subscribe for future episodes, and I've got some amazing guests coming up for you, as well as some cool solo shows too.

John: Leave us a five star review if you possibly can, and let me know that the show is landing for you.

John: If you wanna hear more from Merit, check out OPDshow.com for tour dates, or go to meritkahn.com for speaking and coaching. If you want help sharpening your keynote and getting booked, reach out and let's get to work. If you are on LinkedIn, check out my recent article. It's all about why so many great speakers and coaches as well are completely broke and what to do about it. What is the most important fix to get that on track and get out of starving artist mode?

John: It's been getting a lot of attention and feedback on LinkedIn. [00:52:00] Hope you're gonna check it out yourself and I'll see you back here again very soon for another episode of Present Influence. Wherever you're going, whatever you're doing, have an amazing rest of your day. See you next time.