Mixing and matching contractors with interior designers can feel like trying to make a marriage work when neither side knows what the other wants. In this playful and sarcastic episode, Eric G and John Dudley team up with Wendy Glaister to tackle the age-old question: how can we get everyone on the same page when it comes to home renovations? Spoiler alert: it often starts with communication and mutual respect. The trio dives into the dynamics of contractor-designer-homeowner relationships, illustrating the chaos that can ensue when egos clash and expectations are mismanaged. They share horror stories and hilarious anecdotes about projects gone off the rails, providing listeners with real-life examples of what to avoid in their own home improvement journeys. Wendy emphasizes that the order of hiring—whether to bring in the designer or the contractor first—isn't nearly as crucial as how well everyone collaborates throughout the project. It's all about creating a team atmosphere where everyone feels valued and heard. They also touch on the importance of setting clear expectations from the get-go, so no one ends up on CNN for a remodel gone wrong. The episode is packed with insights, humor, and practical takeaways for anyone looking to survive the wild world of home renovations without losing their sanity—or their relationships. As the conversation unfolds, they tackle the uncomfortable truth that many homeowners don't know what they're getting into when they start comparing contractor bids without a solid design plan. Eric likens it to comparing apples to oranges, and the result is often confusion and frustration. Wendy and John chime in with their own experiences, emphasizing the importance of involving everyone early in the process to avoid costly mistakes down the line. So, whether you're planning a new kitchen or just curious about how to make your renovation smoother, this episode is a goldmine of information, narrated with a wink and a nudge to keep it light and engaging.

Takeaways:

1. Collaboration between contractors and designers is key; it's like a three-way dance with homeowners, and if one partner stomps on toes, it gets messy real quick.
2. Start projects with clear communication to avoid the 'who's to blame' game later; transparency is the glue holding this chaotic process together.
3. Homeowners often mistakenly dive into contractor bids before design; it's like comparing apples to oranges while expecting a fruit salad.
4. Finding a good contractor is like dating; take your time, check references, and don't rush into a relationship that could leave you with a half-finished kitchen.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

1. Wendy Glacier Interiors

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Information given on the Around the House Show should not be considered construction or design advice for your specific project, nor is it intended to replace consulting at your home or jobsite by a building professional. The views and opinions expressed by those interviewed on the podcast are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of the Around the House Show.

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Welcome to the around the House show, your trusted source for everything about your home.

Thanks for joining us today.

John Dudley, good to see you again, my friend.

What's happening, brother?

Good to see you.

And we have back in the studio again.

And I absolutely love this.

This is always going to be a good time.

Wendy Glacier.

Wendy Glacier Interiors.

Welcome back to around the House.

Hey, guys.

How are you?

Thank you for having me.

I'm so excited about this topic.

I've been waiting.

This is going to be fun.

And I think already John's going.

I think we're getting ganged up on here.

He.

Because we got two designers here, right?

But no, no, this is.

I got this good.

I'm not scared.

So we're going to be talking about, you know, basically, this is.

This is such an art, and I think it's important.

It's really getting that designer, that contractor and the homeowner to work together.

Right, Wendy?

Because this is either going to go awesome or it's either going to go off the tracks and make it on CNN News.

We don't want that.

So we want to really be able to get everybody.

Yeah, we've all seen it.

This is a fun one.

And this was.

Wendy, this was a great idea because this is going to be a blast today.

I just feel like there's so much opportunity if we can just enter the room together as friends and set, like, expectations for how we wanted to take care of each other as a team.

And so many times it's like an antagonistic thing from the beginning.

I just don't understand that because it's not conducive to creative thought or problem solving.

And so I.

This is a fun opportunity to talk about it with you guys.

I can't wait to hear what you have to say about it.

That antagonistic part is just human.

Human condition 101.

I think it's the biggest issue.

No one could park that ego for more than four seconds to go.

Wait.

This might be beneficial to all parties involved.

Oh, okay.

I know you've seen it.

I've seen it in my design career.

You walk in and I can see the eye roll of the designers here from the Contractor.

And just as the homeowner and the, you know, or the client and the designers working together and the contractors coming in.

And there's always this.

When they haven't worked together, there's always this, okay, how is this chemistry going to mesh?

You know, I've seen it go so bad, but I've seen it go so good.

I had people like John, he was my contractor, I worked with, know, we worked together for, geez, about a decade.

I've got other guys I've worked with for 25 years.

And when you get that synergy, it's just perfect.

But I wanted to get your take on this, Wendy, and this is that which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Do you hire the designer first or the contractor first or both?

Honestly, I think the, the progress or the way that it all comes together, which do you hire first isn't quite as important as how are they going together and at what phase of the project?

Yes.

So when I have an opportunity.

So hypothetically speaking, a family comes to me and says, I want to build my dream home.

And I say, oh, I have this architect and this architect and they're both great.

And I really would love to get a really skilled contractor in on from the beginning as well.

Because if we have all four minds working together, the client, the architect, the contractor and me, then when it comes time to build it, we'll be building the dream home.

There won't be major change orders and costly mistakes and things that happen.

And we'll all be on the same path together and it'll be a great time, really, honestly, for everyone.

So I think, you know, people are introduced to the design world in different ways.

Sometimes people hear from their friends, oh, I have this amazing contractor, or oh, I have this amazing designer.

Sometimes I have an amazing architect.

But I think the key really is on a large scale project getting everyone together from the beginning so that you can build mutual respect and so that all the different perspectives can be heard and weighed out.

And it's just a great way to go about it.

And it's hard to explain if you haven't done it before, the value.

But it's huge.

It is, yeah.

Yeah, it is huge.

And I think, I think, I think I just lost everything I was going to say.

But the mistake is that a lot of people get so deep in with the designer before even considering the contractor and vice versa.

And I think, I think that's where good relationships come in.

Because I think a lot of this is built on trust.

I trusted Eric as a Designer.

I knew he wasn't, you know, I knew it wouldn't put me in a bad spot.

Right.

I knew it would make things hard, make my life more difficult, because he would think like a contractor and I would accept his thinking as a designer when he would tell me, we're going to do this, and I would balk for a second and go, nah.

But I know he's got a plan.

And I think that synergy, like you said from the start, is key.

And people don't realize that, and they get too deep with one or the other and then try to bring in a third party.

And that's where you get friction.

Right.

I think there's a big difference between respect and ego.

Yeah, there is.

One of the biggest problems I think that I see out there is that so many times the public has been trained to go about it wrong.

Let's say Mr. And Mrs. Smith want to do a Kitch remodel, and the first thing they do is go out and get three contractor bids without a design.

Now they're more confused than when they started because you are comparing the prices of steak, apples and oatmeal.

Yeah.

It doesn't tell you anything.

And if you don't do the design first and get things where you want it and where you're comfortable, there's no way to get a competitive bid because there's a thousand things that could be different.

And as a homeowner and as someone who's going to be spending their hard earned money, I think it's a big mistake that gets made because they go about it the way that they think they should go about it, which technically is backwards.

Yeah.

It's.

It's not.

It's just out of ignorance is all.

And it's just.

And when I have this conversation all the time, when I talk to clients for the first time on the phone, it's like, well, do you have a contractor?

Do you have this or do you have that?

And I'll say, oh, well, people came in and gave me bids.

They said, oh, okay.

What materials did you specify?

What?

Yeah.

Are you doing slab cabinets?

Are you doing laminate?

Are you doing white rift French oak?

What?

What do you mean?

I said, well, everything that you choose goes into the budget.

And it's just.

So what does his budget cover?

Is it like a baseline?

Do you have an allowance for things?

Do you have.

Because it's just made up.

It's just in the air at that point.

And it's not something that you can reasonably predict your financial.

I Don't know, accountability to or something like it just, it doesn't work and it's hard.

Financial fear is what creates that.

Yeah, that methodology, that order of things, right.

They're like, well, first let's find out what this is going to cost.

Then we'll get somebody to come in and tell us all the pretty stuff.

And I think they shortchange the designer on that end because they don't realize the importance or the cost of a good designer.

They want to know, you know, what's the contractor going to tell me?

Because that's the big million dollar question.

Cost wise they think.

What they don't realize is, yeah, go ahead.

They think they're going out for a kitchen.

It's like, it's like saying, okay, I'm gonna go for, I'm gonna go and look at a. I'm gonna go buy a car.

Now which one is.

That's a really great analogy.

And, and yeah, they're both cars.

They both will get you to work.

Well, when maybe.

But you know what I mean, the prices are about as different.

I've learned the same thing.

And, and this is again part of why my maturity has brought more respect for designers.

Not that I ever disrespected them, but even on web, right, doing websites and stuff like that, when I first started doing web stuff, I was like, what do I need a designer for?

There's all these pre made templates and pretty much every design is out there.

And but the cost thing, like you said, Eric, people, you know, how much is a website, how much is a car?

You see is the same, same saying, yeah, yeah.

And so really, you know, and again, if I get a phone call when I was doing kitchen design and stuff all the time, or bathroom design or anything like that, if they didn't have a contractor, my first thing was to loop in someone that I knew, that I trusted because I knew that our relationship going well was going to make this way easier for everybody.

It's going to be easier for the client.

It's going to be easy because I already know like when I was working with John, I knew what he needed for me.

And when you put a brand new designer and a contractor, it can go a couple of ways.

It can go awesome and it can go, this is going to be a chat war is the worst.

You know, the contractor is a brother in law.

You're like, yeah, I think again that.

Just the difference between respect and ego is so huge because as a creative, I mean, I do have a style and a sensibility and I have a, a history of exposure to beautiful things that is unique because it's unique for everybody.

Everybody's experience in life is totally unique.

So it will color the way I choose materials and go about things for a client.

But I know that I don't know everything by a lot.

And I don't want to alienate the team.

I don't want to make anyone feel that they can't express genuine concerns about what's happening.

You know, take me on a sidebar and say, hey, can we talk about blah, blah, blah.

And same for me.

If I see something on a project and I don't feel good about it, you don't just walk up to the contractor in front of the client and just take him apart.

You say, hey, do you have a minute?

Can I call you?

You know, at such and such a day and time, we can talk it through so that they know that you are protecting them and that they are a part of the team and you are on the same team.

So I think that, because I've honestly that.

I think that's the hardest thing.

That was actually a huge barrier to me becoming a designer was because as a little girl growing up in my parents jewelry store, I saw a lot of designers come in and buy jewelry from my parents and they had not all of them, but enough to make an impression.

I could feel my head, my face getting hot thinking about it.

They had like an affect.

They had a little swagger, little swagger.

That it was very intentional to make people feel less than them, you know, like just their.

And not as bright, not as artistic, not as talented, not, not as much.

And I just thought that was such a turn off.

When my grandma was asking me that one day about like, why, why do you, why don't you just be an interior designer?

Everybody knows you were born to do that.

I just said, grandma, I just don't want that to be commuted to me by virtue of my profession.

Yeah.

And she said, well, I mean, your dad's a jewelry designer and he's wonderful and humble and amazing.

So I was grateful that she walked me through that.

But to me, that's probably the biggest barrier to beautiful work in our entire industry is ego.

Because no one has all the answers.

You do need your friends in life and work, in business and design and everything.

You can't just wander around like, I don't know, you can tell I get really passionate about this yeah.

Here's one thing, and Johnny knows this too, because he's seen it too, from the design and the contractor side both.

There's what I call the superhero complex, and what I call the superhero complex is when that piece of trim molding shows up wrong or the furniture shows up damage.

And it goes from the contractor or the designer or both, if it gets to be a competition.

But somebody comes over, whether it's the contractor goes, did you see what the designer showed up?

They actually delivered that broken thing.

Mrs. Omeru, don't worry, I have this under control for you.

Or the designer goes, mean, right?

Or the designer goes, did you see how they installed that?

And it's probably not fully installed anyway.

I will talk to the contractor.

I'll handle it.

In that superhero complex is usually the downfall of the project.

Because you're now dragging in the homeowner to say, look, I'm going to show you my importance.

And it's the beginning of a battle.

And so that's one of the things I always say to look for as a homeowner, because I've had where stuff got shipped.

And guess what?

The driver dropped it on the way in.

Stuff happens.

Yeah.

Did that even come in the house?

No.

The contractor took it, put it out in the back of his truck, or refused the shipment, hid it away, called me on the cell phone from inside his truck.

So the homeowner there couldn't see what was going on and said, hey, man, can you come over after 2 o', clock, grab this piece of this cabinet that showed up, that got dropped because I want them to see it.

Can you get another one ordered?

Were we hiding anything from the client?

Not really.

They're going to get the project done, but why lose the trust microscope on that?

Because now you got somebody that's looking for what else got damaged.

Or even if you say, you know, this just happened and the designer and I are in communication, we've got it handled.

You don't have to worry about anything.

Even just saying that is fine.

I mean, exactly.

It's just.

Yeah, I.

It's the opposite, you know, Wendy, Wendy.

Like you said, enough.

Not all the designers, but enough.

Right.

There are definitely two archetypes we're talking about here.

And you got.

Yeah.

Your bristly contractor who can't be wrong.

And he's so busy knowing everything that he never learns anything.

Right.

And it becomes that competition.

And unless you have enough respect and enough maturity to back down, I just.

I can tell you a handful of times that I'd stop working with people because they would start badmouthing the other person.

Look with.

And it was always that.

The blame game.

The who's right, who's wrong, I'm smarter, I'm better.

Well, that's a dumb idea.

We can't build it like that.

This designer's taking you guys for a ride.

Blah, blah, blah.

It's gross that's happened.

Like, I can feel this chair is the color of my face now.

So I'm sorry.

Because when you live like that and your intention is so pure and good and you want the best thing to happen and you're totally upfront and honest, but someone frames it that way.

That is just so mean.

I mean, honestly, I just.

I think because I've given a lot of thought to this.

I know you're shocked to hear that, but I think it's insecurity, because why else would someone be such a stinker?

Are they that worried that someone's going to find out that they're actually not as great as they say they are?

They're actually a terrible project manager.

They're actually.

They don't have relationships with vendors the way they said, or, like, what are they trying to hide?

There's no reason to be stinky.

If you've got your act together, just do the work.

And one, too.

And I want to talk about this, because I'm going to do this from kind of the neutral from the contractor slash designer side.

The problem with contractors and the problem with designers both is it's really hard to know what their skill set is before you hire them.

There's designers on TV that we look at and go, awesome, you're a realtor.

And then you just decided to put your hat on and say, I'm a designer.

I'm not.

There's a lot.

He's stirring the pot right now, but.

There'S also a bunch of guys that.

That worked on a construction crew for six months that think they can be a better contractor.

And they went out, and now they're a contractor, and they're barely know how to which side of the handle to use in the hammer.

It's an issue.

And I want.

I want.

To be fair.

That's how I started.

And I said.

I said.

Of course I know how to tuck point a chimney.

I would literally go to Home Depot and sit on the floor at nights and read books on how to do things I had no idea how to do, but already told the homeowner while I was painting their bedroom that I could, you know, bay window like, how.

Do you do that?

Anyway, I would go learn, I would go find out.

I knew I didn't know, but I knew I could figure it out.

But yeah.

Yeah.

If you're doing, really, if you're fortunate and you're doing higher end work, then you are able to ask to see the work of contractors and designers and go to the homeowners and have a conversation with them about their experience and how things worked and what the good points were and what the bad points were so that you know how to navigate the relationship better.

I think if you're looking at spending a lot of money and that is not offered to you as an option, then I would be cautious.

Yeah.

Because maybe the person doesn't have that much experience and maybe they're more of a hall bathroom renovation guy than a home from blueprint guy, you know, so not to say that people who are less experienced don't deserve the opportunity.

Absolutely.

But, you know, I mean, there's just.

You have to do your due diligence.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's interesting, you know.

Go ahead, Johnny, you're gonna say something.

I was just gonna say, I will say.

And again, like, to back up, like, Eric and I talked about this, I don't know, a while back.

And for me, like, contracting honestly, I mean, yeah, I did it because I could make good money and then I could spend the rest of my time playing music.

But.

But I never just did a job for the money.

I always, my priority was making people happy and watching somebody dance in their kitchen when it was done right.

And to go in with that mindset made a difference.

And I don't want to say I deserved the opportunity because of that, but when I told these people, yeah, I could put in a bay window or whatever, I only did that knowing that I would stay for $2 an hour until it was done right.

You know what I mean?

I just, I never, I slept good at night and I never hacked anything together.

I never left anybody going, what is.

You said you were gonna paint it blue and it's pink.

You know, I.

So it makes a difference.

And there's a lot of sharks out there.

So, yeah, you do need to be cautious, for sure.

And finding good people in any industry is always difficult.

But yeah, and it's about the relationships, you know, it's.

And again, and I always say this for the homeowners out there that are listening and even for the designers and the contractors, when you're meeting, going through the budget side of things, this is the honeymoon period.

This is the low stress.

Everyone's generally getting along.

The homeowners haven't had people in their house for 45 days, and they just want to have some days to themselves without people standing in their living room or kitchen.

You know what I mean?

And this is as good as it's going to get.

And everybody's excited.

Checks are coming in a few weeks.

That's not beautiful.

There should be a pause to figure out what needs to be fixed or what needs to be changed before you get into the project.

Because as a designer, there was probably a couple people a year that I made sure that I said no to.

Because I went, me, personally, I am not going to mesh with them.

Yeah.

Because I can tell these aren't people I want to work with.

It's going to be hard.

And my personality type is definitely not going to work with theirs.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You have to know when to say no.

And it's difficult, especially if you need the job.

Right.

I mean, there's been times where I needed my sanity more than I needed the job, is what it came down to.

And you brought something up earlier that made me think about.

Yeah.

Like, when you walk in that customer's home and they go, this is what happened last time.

And it's this beautiful kitchen remodel.

And they're like, it was a nightmare.

You're like, okay, that looks really good.

And if that's an out there, I'm out.

Like, Because I don't know what you're expecting.

Queen of England, but you're not.

You're not my cup of tea.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think what I've learned, too, is just every really great GC has his or her own team has been through the fire with them, and they've proven themselves the subs, over a period of years.

And so, like, when my team and I are specifying material or we're putting together finish sheets or whatever, it's really important to me if it's my first time working with that contractor, to say, okay, well, I really want to make your subs happy.

I want to make this as easy for them as I can.

So, for example, your tile guy, can you tell me what kind of grout he likes?

You should see the faces on these.

They're like, what?

And I said, well, every tile guy likes his own grout.

And I don't want to specify a brand he doesn't like.

And I've done that, like, for projects across the country.

And the guys are like, what did she just say?

But it's important, because if they like a certain grout, then gosh darn specify that kind of grout.

Or, you know, if you, if you can be helpful in any way.

Like, we're doing a project in Maryland, so the paint brand availability is different there, obviously, than it is in California.

So I say, okay, well, what is your preferred paint brand?

So I can get the deck so I can specify from that, because I don't want to make it hard on your painter.

And does your painter like, this kind or this kind, or does he want to talk?

And I mean, it's just about, how do you all work together for the very best outcome for your client?

It's not about, I get a deal on this tile if I sell it, and I'm going to ship it across the country at a ridiculous cost to the client.

Because I want my percentage as a designer.

I don't even do that anymore.

The tile guy buys the tile, the slab guy buys the slab.

If you guys are owning those parts of this work, then own it.

Like, I don't want to get in your way.

I don't want to ask you to do something you're not comfortable with, because that is to the detriment of the project to the client, to the vision of the architect.

I mean, it's okay for everybody to do well, a rising tide lifts all boats.

But you can tell I really got on a soapbox about this because it's like, what tiny little percentage do you want?

You know, you're, oh, I have to make my 30% so that I can make everybody's life a living hell.

No, and here's the thing.

What designers don't realize, and you and I are on a hundred percent the same page here, the problem that the design community does miss with this, and I'm going to give them a hard time on this one, is that they miss that.

If you're going to mark that up 30% now, you own it.

That's your product.

That's your liability forever.

Forever.

And why would you do that?

Why would you do that?

And why charge what you're going to charge?

Charge for your labor.

You're not the architect.

If the architects want to do that, knock yourself out.

You do that, that's your liability.

And the architects have a way different insurance policy than many of the designers do.

You know, their errors and emissions insurance usually is millions to tens of millions of dollars, and they'll have somebody fight for them when they get sued.

But let's be honest, that's how that works.

And so I've always Done that for.

Geez.

For 25 years, I've gone, man.

I don't want to be on call.

When I bought the plumbing fixture, and the plumbers calling me up going, hey, they gave me the wrong discussion ring.

Can you drive?

Stop.

Can you get out of your meeting and go get it?

Yeah.

No, I want the plumber to do that.

I don't want anything to do with that.

I want to say we are using this fixture, this stuff, and you guys take care of it.

And so who warranties it?

The plumber?

Not me.

Yeah.

I even say you guys are making this really difficult to be, like, contrary contractor.

Yeah.

And I'm just thinking about, you know, you considering what type of grout or what type of paint and asking the GC And Eric was always the same way.

That's why we did so well together.

And our projects came out amazing because we cared about each other.

Like, what do you think about this?

I know you hate dealing with this, so I thought maybe we could do this.

Like, that makes a team.

That makes harmony, and that makes a beautiful product, and that makes a happy customer and that, you know, takes us all to Maui for vacation or to.

Work because they need a lot of.

Help in the middle.

Well, this came up.

It was weird.

Today it came up for me.

I had a client who.

She hired a contractor.

She had not worked with him before.

Architect, had not worked with him before.

And me not worked with me before.

And she's very much in charge of her life.

And if she doesn't get answers when she wants them, she will go and find or get whomever or whatever she feels like she needs to get to get the answer.

And what's that?

You may be one of the most polite people I've ever met.

After I retire, I'm going to work for the U.N. please do.

We can use some help there.

But I think what has not been explained, and I get to see her tomorrow, and I'm really hoping that I can be helpful, is you've hired this very reputable general contractor to run your job, and there is, like, an unspoken understanding that he will work for your highest and best good, because you were referred by multiple people on many levels of, you know, your social network, and to just take something out from under him, even though that person works with him on the regular because you didn't get the phone number fast enough or that's how you.

I just don't think.

But I don't think she.

I don't think that this client understands.

I think if this client Understood.

It wouldn't maybe be like this because I don't think anyone would intentionally put someone in that spot.

And that's what I'm going to hopefully try to explain tomorrow is just that the great benefit of an incredible GC is many fold.

One, extremely experienced.

Two, there's nothing new under the sun for this person.

And if there is, it's exciting because it's some new skill to learn.

Four, proven team rock solid will show up no matter what.

You're not a one and done because you have this GC who's running your job.

Where I have worked on several projects where the client wanted to be their own gc.

I was gonna bring this up, Wendy.

Perfect segue by, by the way.

And I just, I've tried to say from the beginning in a kind way, you know, I, I understand you want to save money.

It's just that I don't think in the long run that will be what happens because you are actually a one and done to everyone.

And I can't trade on the professional relationships I have for you because I don't know how you run a job.

And I can't offer up all the people I love and trust on a silver platter to you when I don't know what you're going to do.

And you don't have the answers because you're not a gc.

You don't know how to work that drain on that balcony that was never in the plan that you added at the last second that you're hoping you're not going to get red tagged for properly off of a flat roof down to the first floor.

You don't know how to handle this H vac problem because you've actually not heard of the H Vac system that just is like flush with the ceiling.

You said you're used to the big chunky one on the side.

You know, I mean, I, and I'm, I'm just, just a designer.

I mean, I, I am solidly in my lane.

But Wendy.

And that's the thing, you know, you have the experience to look at this.

And I, I talk about this in the show every year because the homeowner's like, oh, I can do that.

It's just making phone calls.

No, it's agonizing.

Stop.

Being a GC is a.

So are you not working?

Check one.

Oh, you are.

Okay.

Can you get out of your meeting?

To manage people, you need to.

Second of all, the best subcontractors are working for the best contractors.

Yeah, you're not working for you, Mr. And Mrs.

Homeowner.

Here's the problem.

When that great subcontractor says, hey, guys, schedule's messed up.

I thought we were having this done today.

We need the tile setters in tomorrow, not.

Not Tuesday, next week.

So we're moving stuff around.

It's your job that the tile person doesn't show up at because he's not letting the guy that's bringing him $300,000 a year look for somebody else to show up on Tuesday.

No way.

Yep.

Gosh, I'm gonna.

I'm gonna break out in hives talking about this.

Yeah.

Agony of the real world experiences.

It's so built on trust, right?

It is.

Because there's so many bad apples out there.

I don't mean to say so many.

But, you know, well, just one ruins the whole.

Like you said, Wendy, there's enough.

And so it's so important when you find this good team, find these good people, that everybody's treating everybody well.

And, yeah, you're not going to sacrifice that over some homeowner that wants to play king for a day that has zero experience and is going to make an absolute disaster and end up with half a house remodeled and five contractors walking down the floor going, good luck.

And Wendy, I know what happens.

Here's what happens.

And this will happen on every time.

And you can just set your watch to it.

There will be on a kitchen model that a homeowner is trying to general contract themselves and even the best organized ones.

It's the knowledge base that that GC has.

That's it.

It's the experiences.

They use oven that they're putting in that needs four wires for a to run because it's in the specification sheet on page 22.

But they wired it like every other cooktop or any other oven that's got three because the house is older.

And now everything's done.

It's appliance installation day, and the installer goes, we don't have wires in the box.

Now you're ripping out stuff.

Yeah.

Electric tile backsplash.

Exactly.

You're tearing stuff out to make that work.

And yeah.

Every book says, be your own general contractor.

That's all I had to say.

Because I don't care if you read 10 books for a year, you're not going to learn what a good general contractor has learned over 25 years.

And like you say, Eric, it's the spec for the hood vent or the spec for the fancy oven or that you just.

That stuff's not in those books.

You Know or how to handle your drunk plumber that's, you know, passed out into the crawl space in the morning.

I worked on a job once where the electrician was a significant.

A significant level of alcohol consumption every day.

And I thought, oh, man, I hope this house doesn't burn down.

But.

And I just.

I think the thing I really love to get across is not that I don't think you're smart enough to be a great gc.

I'm sure you are.

If that's your passion and that's where you want to invest your time and your creative energy, and you want to do that learning and you want to build a team and you want to create beauty in the world.

And this is important to you.

Absolutely.

Totally.

100% jobs first.

Not your own home.

Yeah, like, that's great if that's what you love.

But if you're.

If you have your own profession, but you're going to do this in your spare time, the money at stake is incredible, and the risk is huge.

And honestly, if you.

If you can't afford to pay a quality general contractor and his or her team wait and save until you can afford to build it with that team because it will save your marriage, it will save your savings account, it will save years of your life.

It's important.

It's not.

It's just like.

Like, I don't want to dip my own taxes.

Oh, my gosh.

I know that.

I don't know.

I need Ralph Juarez, cpa.

I can't.

I mean, no way in.

I mean, that is not my gift.

Mix solidly.

And I feel fine saying that out loud.

And Ralph knows it's true, but I just.

It's okay for everyone to help everybody else.

It's okay to have humility and say, I'd really like great help.

I'd love to make some lifelong friends on this job.

Job.

I.

When this is all done, I want to have a party, and we're all going to be together and celebrate this.

I want to follow up with your kids.

I want to know what's happened, because that's good juju in your house, right?

When you have this house that's come together and everybody's antagonistic and mean and egotistical and stinky and they cut corners and they don't know what they're doing, you're going to live in that for the rest of your life.

Yes.

I. I'm going to call the biggest elephant in the room out that no one ever talks about.

Okay.

You think your face is red.

Now we're gonna go for this one.

I can feel it.

Here we go.

For the couples out there.

And I'm just gonna say it as couples, for the couples out there that are remodeling to save your relationship.

This is like the thing.

I'm gonna have a kid to save my relationship.

This doesn't work.

This doesn't work.

You need to be strong coming into this because every little crack in a major remodeling project will show where those little cracks are in your relationship.

Because it's not easy.

See, I told you.

Get a lot of Botox, too.

I can feel, though, I need to get.

No, it's hard and it's.

I will.

As a designer.

That's like my job.

I'm the third party neutral mediator.

You're the therapist.

You are the therapist.

You are the hairstylist of the construction industry.

It's.

Well.

And I just, you know, you don't know until you're living in upheaval how difficult that really is or until you're writing check after check even, you know, the opportunity to move out of your home, which I would advise, if you're doing a major remodel, pull it off, please, if it's possible.

But I.

You don't know till you know when you're in it and you're there and that's it.

But when people especially like you and John, putting out really important content for homeowners to understand, like, this is the world of design and construction, and we just really want to give you the best experience and educate you.

It's not like you're saying these things because they're not true or that you don't have.

Have concern or compassion for people who might go down this road and have never heard somebody say beware in neon.

Bright lights, warning sign.

That's that, you know, it's not.

Yeah.

Unfortunately, I still think 1 in 10 will actually pay attention and heed that warning.

Right.

Like.

Well, they made movies about this, Right.

Like the War of the Roses and then the new one with Benedict Cumberbatch.

He was like an architect.

That house one.

About that movie back then.

Yeah.

There's all those different.

You know, it's.

And they're not wrong.

That's why they're.

It's in the movies.

Because everybody goes, oh, yeah.

You know, and it doesn't go well.

So you need to make sure.

And I think the biggest thing, you know, we're going to be running out of time here in a few minutes, but I think the most important Thing out of this whole thing.

If you can get one thing out of this whole episode is communication, and that's your communication skills.

That's everyone on the team's communication skills.

So as the homeowner, if you're listening, your communication skills have to be the best they can be.

Just as the designer, just as the contractor and the subcontractors has to be.

I'd like to just say, like, if you.

If something happens on the job site and you observe something and you don't like it, let's say you're the homeowner.

Don't swallow that.

Immediately call your contractor or your designer and say, hey, I was on the project today and I saw this.

Is something going on on there?

Or is there something you can help me understand?

Or I'm worried about whatever, because, as in all of our relationships, if we just hold on to those things and we don't share them, they just build and build and build, and then it's very hard to maintain perspective, and a lot of anger can happen.

So if.

If my client has a concern about something that's happening, I want to know.

I want to help right away.

I don't want them to have to go the weekend worrying about it.

It.

And none of the contractors, thank God that I work with, want that to happen either.

So you're not inconveniencing us.

We work for you.

If there is a problem, please let us know.

We are in the service industry.

I was raised in retail.

Yep.

That.

So please, you know, don't feel like.

Because people say, oh, Wendy, you're so busy, I don't want to call you.

No, I need you to call me.

I want you to call me.

Please.

I work for you.

Whether it's a simple email, text, phone call, whatever the system is that's agreed to at the beginning, follow that.

Because, yeah, you might be seeing that painting that's only half done.

You also might be catching something that got missed by a subcontractor, a trade or something that your expectation is different than what the drawings are.

Now's the time to fix it.

Versus blue tape.

Walkthrough day.

The blue tape.

Oh, the blue tape.

I know I could get everybody cringing on that one.

No, I mean, it's like you said, Wendy, it's so important that stuff doesn't build, because then suddenly, one tiny scratch on a mirror makes the entire project is horrible.

Right?

Because really, you were angry seven weeks ago when we dinged the fridge, but now this little scratch put the whole thing into the garbage.

Like now, speaking of that, this is one of the biggest tricks I learned that I worked with another contractor that we came up with.

We found the most awesome furniture repair person money could buy.

And this is what we did on remodels.

We put in in the budget.

Not a line item because we didn't want anybody to take it out, but we put it in there for them to come in two days before.

We're handing over the keys to go through and touch everything up.

Whether it's the doorway coming in that maybe somebody bumped, and they bumped it hard enough to go through the RAM board or whatever else something around.

I have seen some of these guys, and we did a test one time because we thought contract.

We ordered a door, but the contractor goes, hey, we want to get through the.

We're doing pictures this week.

Fix this door.

It was a beautiful cherry door.

Now, we didn't leave that with the homeowner, but furniture repair guy, they drilled the hardware wrong.

He fixed it for the photos.

I couldn't tell that door had been fixed.

When I held it to my face nice, and there were two handle holes in the wrong spot.

And I was like, that's artistry.

Yeah.

It wasn't gonna age well.

You need that, friend.

You know, you need that and that.

Putting that in there was just a few hundred bucks.

You know, it was like 500 bucks or something for whatever that was with that guy.

And he came through every job that.

And somebody that could do with metal, like for, you know, appliance scuffs and things like that.

Having them for a.

To come out and be able to do that stuff on call was great because you weren't waiting 12 weeks for something.

They could come out and fix it in the field, and it looked gorgeous, and nobody had any problems.

That was.

That was a.

That was a savings on the.

Because it seems.

And again, come into my world of kitchens, and we'll wrap this up in a second.

But.

But once you get down that road and there's.

There's.

It's like a.

It's almost like an avalanche.

Once we put on the critical eyes, we can.

Oh, John.

If.

If I tell John to go walk through a perfect project, he's going to go, I saw 22 things, Wendy.

If you had me go walk through a perfect project, I'm going to see 22 things.

And if I send you, Wendy, to go look at mine, I'm going to find 22 things.

They're always there.

This is wood.

It's metal.

It's craftsmanship.

And Depending on how picky you want to be, there's always something, if you want to be that person, to find.

Sure.

I never want to open up that can and go down that road, because no one's going to end up happy.

Because perfection, when you're dealing with raw materials that are made by God out there, guess what?

What your beauty is and what somebody else's are two different things.

And now we're throwing perspective into this, and that's a tough one.

Yeah, it was.

I had this little client who was just dying for a Taj Mahal countertop.

So we found that it was beautiful.

We went through this whole big thing.

The wrong one was delivered on and on and on.

So we get to the end, it's all installed.

She says, it's beautiful.

Year later, I get a phone call.

Wendy, I think it's flawed.

Come with the guys.

When they come to look at.

I'm like, oh, geez.

So I call the guys because they're the guys I use all the time.

What's going on with this?

Can you explain?

And like, it's Taj Mahal.

It's quartzite.

It's crystal.

A crystalline structure.

It's.

It's beautiful.

We don't really know.

So thanks for saying you'll come.

So I walk in, and she goes.

She goes.

She puts her hand across the surface.

She goes, do you feel that?

And I go, yeah.

She goes, do you see that when the light hits it?

Because it was a polished Taj Mahal.

Yeah, that's bad.

And I said, no, real crystal.

Yeah, you painted the real thing.

That means it's not plastic.

That means you have the really beautiful one where you can see true crystalline structure out of the earth that God made.

That means this is totally different from everybody else's countertop in the world.

And she's like, oh, I hadn't thought of it like that.

You're 100% right, though, Wendy.

You're 100% right.

But, I mean, if the client isn't educated and they don't know, I mean, once it was explained to her, she was like, oh, okay.

Yeah.

And.

And thank God I have the back of my installer, because they're a great team of installers.

But, yeah, it's just so much of it's education.

I think a lot of us, to be honest, and this is not to our credit, we're used to this work.

We've done it for years.

There's so.

We forget what it's like to be brand new and experience these things for the first time.

I think the more we can remember that and just be mindful and.

And be humble and explain and make time, the better it is for everyone.

I think we run into trouble when we forget that and start kind of being.

You can't get arrogant with the uninformed.

It's not fair to them.

It's not fair to you.

It costs you that.

Don't drag your personal life in there.

Don't you know you have to walk in?

You're there again, service.

You're of service.

You're there to be of service.

That's it.

Remember that.

Guys, you're gonna walk.

We are running over Eric's like, stop.

We can keep going for another three hours.

Episode 17 Designers, Contractors and Architects.

We'll just put out the rest next month.

Come on.

Exactly.

All right, Wendy.

I know we've got a lot of people out there going, oh, I love Wendy.

I want her on my next project.

Since we're coast to coast and you're doing stuff all over, how do people find you so they can hire your expertise?

Thank you.

It's wendyglasterinteriors.com is our website.

And Wendy Glacier Interiors on Instagram.

We put up stories every day about our design adventures and everything that's going on.

So hopefully you'll enjoy it and follow along.

And thanks again so much for having me, Wendy.

It's always so much fun, and it's always great when the three of us can get in here and inform and tell some more stories at the same time, because it's all a little bit of therapy for all of us.

It's a blast.

It actually makes me miss being the gc.

I'm like, man, now he's waiting for you.

I'm thinking about it.

I can see the gears turning on that guy right now.

Okay.

Yeah.

Influence like that.

I'm like, okay, adventure, let's go.

That is awesome.

All right, guys.

For John Dudley, Wendy Glaser.

Thanks for coming on today.

I'm Eric.

You've been listening to around the House.