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The Truth About DEI Challenges with Kevin Clayton, EVP of Cleveland Cavaliers.
Episode 152 • 9th July 2024 • TonyTidbit: A Black Executive Perspective • TonyTidbit ™
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In this episode of the Black Executive Perspective Podcast, host Tony Tidbit engages in a detailed discussion with Kevin Clayton, Senior Vice President and Head of Social Impact and Equity at the Cleveland Cavaliers. Kevin explains the distinction between DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) programs and social impact initiatives, and how DEI efforts are critical but often misunderstood. He provides real-world insights from his extensive career and delves into the successes and challenges of DEI initiatives within corporate America and sports. Kevin emphasizes the importance of understanding and leveraging diversity to create systemic changes that benefit broader communities. The conversation also explores Kevin's journey growing up in Cleveland, his career at Procter & Gamble, and his commitment to creating a tangible impact in his community. The episode concludes with actionable advice for Black executives on how to leverage their unique experiences for professional success.

▶︎ In This Episode

  1. 00:00: Introduction to DEI with the Cleveland Cavaliers
  2. 00:40: Welcome to the Podcast
  3. 01:13: Challenges Facing DEI Initiatives
  4. 01:37: Introducing Kevin Clayton
  5. 02:18: Kevin Clayton's Background and Role
  6. 04:41: Kevin's Journey Back to Cleveland
  7. 07:20: The Impact of George Floyd's Murder
  8. 10:18: Managing and Leveraging Diversity
  9. 19:57: Kevin's Early Racial Awakening
  10. 25:14: Kevin's Career Path and DEI Work
  11. 28:38: The Concept of Leveraging Diversity
  12. 33:44: Why DEI is Under Attack
  13. 35:03: The Rise of DEI Leadership Post-George Floyd
  14. 37:36: Corporate America's Response and Challenges
  15. 40:33: The Political Weaponization of DEI
  16. 46:59: Effective DEI Strategies in the Cleveland Cavaliers
  17. 55:57: Kevin Clayton's Journey and Insights
  18. 01:02:22: Final Thoughts and Call to Action.

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Transcripts

Kevin Clayton:

But when you hear the term DEI with the Cleveland Cavaliers.

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Here's what it means.

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It has, it defines our fans, it defines

our marketplace, it defines our viewing

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population, it defines our, our, our,

our virtual interaction with our fans.

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It is not identified as black or

white, but it's looked upon as here is

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a marketplace And if on any of those

fronts on the marketplace, if we haven't

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developed that relationship with a

group of people, regardless of who they

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are, we have a business opportunity.

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Tony Tidbit: We'll discuss race and how it

plays a factor and how we didn't even talk

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about this topic because we were afraid.

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BEP Narrator: A Black

Executive Perspective.

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Tony Tidbit: Welcome to a Black Executive

Perspective podcast, a safe space where

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we talk about all things about race,

especially race in corporate America.

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I'm your host, Tony Tidbit.

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And as we always do, we want to

throw a quick shout out to our

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partner CODE M Magazine, whose

mission is saving the Black family

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by first saving the Black man.

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So please make sure you go

and check them out at CodeM.

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So today we're going to delve

into the growing challenges facing

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diversity, equity, and inclusion

initiatives across various sectors.

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As these essential efforts face increasing

scrutiny and pushback, understanding

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their nuances and distinctions from

the broader social impact and equity

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initiatives become more critical.

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Joining us is Kevin Clayton, Senior

Vice President and Head of Social Impact

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and Equity at the Cleveland Cavaliers.

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He will provide his expert insight.

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And to the landscape, Kevin will

also explain the key differences

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between DEI programs and social

impact and equity initiatives.

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Using real world examples from his

extensive experience, he will discuss

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how DEI efforts often, often internal

and organizational focus are sometimes

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perceived as divisive and how they differ

from social impact and equity strategies,

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which aim for systemic changes.

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Benefiting broader communities.

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Let me tell you a little bit about Kevin.

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Kevin Clayton is the senior vice president

and the head of social impact and equity

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for rock entertainment group, which

includes the Cleveland Cavaliers, Rocket

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Mortgage, field house, Cleveland Charge,

Cleveland Monsters, and the Cavs are re

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legion gaming club under his leadership.

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Kevin oversees community

relations engagement, DEI, and the

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Cavaliers Community Foundation.

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Kevin previously has executive positions

at Bond Secures MercyHealth, United

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States Tennis Association, Russell

Athletic, American Cancer Society,

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and was the managing partner of Jump

Ball, LLC entity he found in:

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Kevin started his career with Procter

and Gamble where he was a successful

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sales and marketing executive.

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He is currently the chair of the

greater Cleveland urban league and

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black sports professional board member

of the United way of greater Cleveland

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shaker schools, foundation, Cleveland

city club, and serves as the advisor to

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other local and national organizations.

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Kevin is a native of Cleveland, Ohio.

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He has four daughters, three

grandchildren, and an alum of North

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Carolina Central University in Wilmington

College, Ohio, where he was a member

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and the captain of the basketball team.

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He's also a proud member of Kappa

Alpha Phi Fraternity Incorporated.

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Kevin Clayton, welcome to a Black

Executive Perspective Podcast, my brother.

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Kevin Clayton: Hey, Tony, it's

a pleasure being with you, man.

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Thank you for that.

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Nice introduction and.

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When you read my bio, it just reminded

me how long I've been at this game, man.

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Tony Tidbit: Well, not only how long

you've been at it, but how accomplished

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that you've been at it as well.

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I was waiting for the line that

says they gave him land and title.

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So, uh, but maybe you'll get that from

where you at rock entertainment right now.

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So more importantly, my friend,

we're excited that you're here.

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We're definitely going to talk

about a topic that, um, as

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you know, is in the headlines.

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Um, it's interesting and

we'll dive into it shortly.

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Four years ago, it was, it was very,

it was getting a lot of accolades.

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And now four years later, it's,

uh, at the bottom of the bottom.

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So I definitely want to hear your

perspective, but before we get started,

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tell us a little bit of like, where

are you currently residing and a little

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bit about your family, my friend.

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Kevin Clayton: Yeah.

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So, so Tony, I've had a chance to

live all across the United States.

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I'm right now in Cleveland,

Ohio, where I grew up.

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And, you know, went to,

went to school here.

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Uh, and then when I left right after,

actually right after college, um, is

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when I kind of left the Cleveland area

and I've lived all across the country.

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And after 33 years came back to Cleveland

for this opportunity with the Cavaliers.

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And I've lived in such places, such as

Atlanta, such as Atlanta, such as, uh,

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LA, New York, Charleston, Cincinnati,

twice, back to Cleveland once.

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Orlando, Jacksonville, all over

the country, and I've had a chance.

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I had no plan to come back to

Cleveland when you think about

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some of the places I've lived.

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They're kind of nice warm weather areas

and really had a lot going on socially.

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But I got this call from, um, really,

it was really more of a spiritual call.

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Of coming back home and I

grew up playing basketball.

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I grew up cheering for the Cavs.

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So to be able to start their DEI program

kind of in, in, um, actually:

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was a

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great opportunity for me to, to really do

some good work back in my home community.

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Um, so this was a surprise

that I'd come back home.

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But I haven't, you know, this is where my

roots are and I couldn't think of a better

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place to be other than Cleveland, Ohio.

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Tony Tidbit: Well, my brother, I

mean, number one, thank you for that.

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Number two, I love it that you've

been around a lot of places because

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obviously it broadens our horizons.

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Number three, coming back home is great.

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But then I got to say, number four,

you remind me of LeBron James.

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Okay.

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When he left all of a sudden,

he felt like it was spiritual.

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He had to come back to

fulfill his mission.

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All right.

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Which he did.

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So I'm pretty sure that you're

on your mission and you're

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making it happen as well.

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Kevin Clayton: Uh, Tony, I, I could

not have written the script any

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better than what it is right now.

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And as we have the conversation, it'll

be really clear to you and, and and

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our viewers as to what that looks like.

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But as I said, my plan was

not to come back to Ohio.

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I was in Atlanta and have been there

for a number of years, and I kind of,

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wherever I am, I like to call it home.

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Right.

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And you know, when I was in

Orlando, I was very much a big

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part of the landscape there.

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When I was in Atlanta, I was

part of the landscape, New York,

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Charleston, because you never know.

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to end up.

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And people ask me now, well, Kevin, are

you going to, is Cleveland your last stop?

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I don't know.

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I'm on a spiritual journey that

has led, that I've followed the

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work to be done and wherever I am,

as I said, I just, I call it home.

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So for me being able to come back

home to Cleveland at a time when the

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whole social justice, social impact,

diversity, that whole industry blew

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up around the murder of George Floyd.

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I know that this is the place in which

I was supposed to be, and also know

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kind of what my calling is and the

work that I'm supposed to get done.

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Tony Tidbit: Buddy, I love it.

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I love it.

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And speaking of that, so look, because

I'm chomping at the bit to hear from you.

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I know you chomping at

the bit to talk about it.

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So let's go ahead and just get into it.

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Are you ready to talk

about it, my brother?

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I'm ready to get into it, brother.

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Let's talk about it.

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So why don't we do this?

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Let's start here because you have,

um, you know, and I'm going to

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ask you some questions about DEI

and social impact, but you have a

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major role with rock entertainment.

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So why don't you tell us a little

bit about your role and your

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duties in terms of what you do in

terms of Social Equity and Impact.

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Kevin Clayton: Yeah.

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So when I started with the, with the cabs

organization, so rock entertainment group.

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Is, is the kind of overarching umbrella

for all of the sports and entertainment

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organizations that we, we have and

understand that, you know, Rocket

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Entertainment Group and the Cavs are

part of Dan Gilbert's portfolio, but

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over a hundred companies of which

is kind of led by Rocket Mortgage

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and StockX and Quicken loans and

bedrock development and what have you.

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So with that, as I said,

I came back here in:

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And it was to start the DE&I team.

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So if you think back to 2019 and the

NBA, and this is when I tell people

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this story, they're kind of like,

wow, I can't even believe that.

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So in 2019 when I came back here

to start our DE&I team, there's

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147 professional sports teams.

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Tony, if you think about NBA, if you

think about MLB, NFL, National Hockey

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League, and then if you think, also add

to that MLS, which is a major league

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soccer out of the 147 sports teams.

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In just 2019, I was the fourth C

suite level person to lead a DEI team.

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So now there were people that might

have been a coordinator over HR and

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something else and something else, or

they had multiple titles, but at the C

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suite level, Sitting in the boardroom.

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I was the fourth and the thing is all

four of those sports teams were in

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the NBA and None of the other teams

across any other league Had them now

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at the top of the like the MLB has had

somebody leading the league When I was

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it when I was in the USTA from a tennis

standpoint, I led that for the USTA But

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at the team level, it hadn't happened.

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So my role was to open up the, the

DEI department, and I've always

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thought about this as a very strategic

business format or from a strategic

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format, because that's what this is.

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DEI is a strategy to

get you to an end game.

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So, in doing that over a couple of years

and then understand in:

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was in the, in the spring of 2019, a

year later, George Floyd is murdered.

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Then you go through the next 6, 7 months.

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The pandemic hits.

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So I come on board to do

the work of DEI had no clue.

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How could I?

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That the world was going to turn upside

down and we were going to have the

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duality of two pandemics, if you will.

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One from a social and racial justice.

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The other from what Penn, what,

uh, what happened with COVID.

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So in managing through all of that,

uh, and then we got on the backside

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of kind of COVID and we all came back,

my work was elevated to, and I had a

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chance to have some input with my CEO

around what my title was going to be.

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And I saw, and I mean, God has blessed

me with the vision to kind of see

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where the puck is going, if you will,

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which is

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a hockey term.

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And we have a hockey team as well.

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And it's not looking at where

you are, but where are we going?

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So I saw, and I could just see by the,

kind of the, the, the, the headwinds.

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That the work of DEI

was beginning to shift.

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And now I'm going back two years ago.

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So my title is Senior Vice President

of Social Impact and Equity.

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Those are outcomes, Tony,

of the work that I do.

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That's the outcome of DEI.

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So I talked about the

DEI being a strategy.

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If we do the work of, of developing

and managing and leading and

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executing our DEI plan, we're

Then we will have social impact.

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We will also create internal

and external equity.

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What happens is that this work is

perceived to be the end all it's not

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the end all it's it's really a road

to get us from point A to point B and

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therefore my work is now DEI falls

underneath me everything we do from a

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community standpoint government affairs.

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What we do with our legends, and those

are all the past greats and players with

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the Cavs, and then also our foundation.

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So I have the philanthropic

part, government affairs, social

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impact, or social, yeah, social

impact, and also the work of DEI.

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All of that work is

geared towards one thing.

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And that is how do we make tangible,

trackable, measurable impact

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in our community and within our

footprint of where our fans are.

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Tony Tidbit: So buddy, thank you for that.

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And I appreciate the, um, you backing

up and, and, and painting that picture.

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I got a couple of questions out of this.

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So number one, um, 2019,

147 sports teams, four.

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Individuals for positions in

terms of DEI or social impact.

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What case may be, why was that?

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Kevin Clayton: Yeah.

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And to be clear, it was, it was DEI,

social impact, no social impact.

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It not even been, not even

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Tony Tidbit: coming.

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So, so, so why is that?

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Yep.

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So here's

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Kevin Clayton: what, here's

why, why that was the case.

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And if you think about professional

sports, what happened over the years

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is that people look at professional

sports and said, Oh, we don't need to

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do anything from a diversity standpoint.

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Because look, look at

all the black athletes.

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Look at all the women that play.

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Look, I mean, you even got LGBTQ players.

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You, you have athletes, you have

all these folks that typically

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are not in the mainstream.

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So why do we need diversity?

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Well, what they didn't understand was

one diversity is not just representation

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of individuals Two what they didn't

understand was that's the athletes on

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the floor That has nothing to do with

the business behind the scenes So if

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you then kind of go behind the the the

curtain of the wizard of oz and you

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pull back that curtain What you will see

is that professional sports look just

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like every other corporate Corporation

in this country predominantly led

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by white males, you had a handful of

women, a handful of people of color.

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So just from a representation standpoint,

people did not associate who was on the

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court to who was running the business.

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And that's no different than when I

worked at P&G, who was running the

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business had nothing to do with our

marketplace and, and what, who, who

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our brands were associated with.

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So that's why I've always connected

this work to what is the mission

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or the business objective of the

organization so that I can kind of

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dismantle the whole conversation around,

Oh, this is about black and white.

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We got enough black athletes.

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So therefore, why do we need diversity?

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So that's why that was the case.

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Then George Floyd is murdered.

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America now raises, I mean, the, the,

the, the ugly scar of racism is now

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seen by the whole world in this country.

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And sports teams, including the NBA

are like, Hey, we need to make sure

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that all our teams have, or sports

leagues, including the NBA, wanted

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to make sure all of our teams had

representation of DE& I leaders.

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That happened across all the sports.

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It happened across this entire country.

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Well, for us, it wasn't about

reacting to something that happened

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from a societal standpoint.

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For us, it was just a matter

of, this is part of our strategy

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that we implemented in 2019.

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It wasn't in reaction to, and our

other three teams in the league that

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actually had DEI officers were now

in a position to really get ahead of

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this because it's just how we operate.

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It's how our league operated,

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Tony Tidbit: right?

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Right.

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So that makes sense.

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So it's amazing because I love the

way you, you know, you weave the,

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the situation with, um, the sports

leagues and corporate America.

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They were really the same, right?

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Set up, but because they were more, I

don't even say more because the primary

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primary product on the field was.

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You know, people of color, they're

like, we're all squared away.

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All right.

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But at the end of the day,

there, there, there was not.

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And it's the same setup.

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So I'm glad you, you,

you spoke about that.

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You also talked about the two pandemics.

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You said, um, which I

never heard that before.

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So I want you to, you said, cause I

was like, okay, there's something else

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happened, but you spoke very well to it.

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So I want you to dive in further.

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You said one pandemic was the

racial awakening, social justice.

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And the other one was the pandemic.

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Talk a little bit about the two and

how it affected what was going on.

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Kevin Clayton: Yeah.

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So the term pandemic, most of us,

first time we were ever exposed

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to that term happened from COVID.

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Well, COVID was a disease.

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COVID was a, a illness.

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COVID was a, a, a, a physical symptom

that, that impacted all of America.

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It shut down our country.

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Tony Tidbit: Right.

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Kevin Clayton: Well, we all were

sitting at home watching George

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Floyd being killed, being murdered.

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So, Tony, you and I have

been around long enough.

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George Floyd was not the first black man

to be killed by law enforcement officers.

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It just happened to be the

first one in May of:

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Tony Tidbit: Right.

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That we happened

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Kevin Clayton: to see.

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Tony Tidbit: On TV.

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Kevin Clayton: On TV.

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So seeing it over and over

again, it had the same impact.

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Go back to that, that time of all of

the rallies, all of the protests all

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across the globe that were happening.

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Didn't we see those same

pictures with COVID?

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All across the globe, how

many people were being killed?

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City had a record.

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They had a number.

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Yeah, exactly.

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So, so it, it, it had the

same impact of, wait a minute.

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There's been a, an alarm had

been sound and that alarm was.

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Unfortunately, racism in America

actually exists, which was an awakening

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as other countries began to say,

yes, and it's happened here, but the

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finger was pointed at at our country,

and therefore, if you think about

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kind of where the epicenter was.

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It was here

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from

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that one pandemic of racism,

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the

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epicenter of COVID, you can point your

finger, but people were identifying.

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It was over in China.

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It was someplace else,

but it hit our country.

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And you recall New York was the

epicenter of how many people were

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dying and how it shut down that same

visual you saw all across the country.

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And it happened to be the visual.

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The epicenter was in Minneapolis.

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Where George Floyd was killed.

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So the impact was the same.

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Our attention was captured

by this ugly disease.

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Racism and COVID.

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Tony Tidbit: Right, right.

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Well, thank you for breaking that down.

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Let me ask you this in

terms of racial awakening.

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Let's back up a little bit.

341

:

Growing up in Cleveland and I don't

know when, when you left, even

342

:

though you're back now, when did

you have your first like racial

343

:

awakening as, as a human being?

344

:

Kevin Clayton: Yeah.

345

:

So I grew up in, in the city of Cleveland

up until I was in the fifth grade.

346

:

And my mother, who was a single, a single,

um, caregiver, care provider of our

347

:

family, and I have two older brothers,

we then moved into a Jewish community.

348

:

In Shaker in Cleveland

called Shaker Heights.

349

:

Shaker Heights has one of the

highest, um, population bases

350

:

of Jewish people in the country.

351

:

Very affluent community with the

exception of kind of this one little

352

:

area about a quarter mile or so in

Shaker where all black folks live that

353

:

kind of was on the border of Cleveland.

354

:

And my experience around racial

awakening Came from the fact that

355

:

I live in a two family house.

356

:

We live on the second floor.

357

:

We had five rooms, three of

which had furniture in it.

358

:

And when I say furniture,

I'm talking about a couple of

359

:

chairs or a bed or something.

360

:

And now I was being bused to a part

of Shaker that, and this was voluntary

361

:

busing, but I was being bused to a

part of Shaker with my Jewish friends.

362

:

where their lifestyle was

very different than mine.

363

:

And I would never forget this, Tony.

364

:

We had, and this was the

first day of being bussed.

365

:

And there were multiple schools that

the bus would pick up for the, we'd

366

:

pick up in the black part of Shaker.

367

:

In multiple schools along the way, where

they would drop three or four black kids

368

:

off here, six or seven black kids here.

369

:

And when we got to the final stop, which

I was in, in, in the last grouping, there

370

:

were seven of us that got off the bus.

371

:

And my very first day, again, I was

in, I was in the sixth grade now.

372

:

All right.

373

:

Imagine here's this brick school and

I'm getting off the bus and these

374

:

faces of all these white kids are

looking down at us, get off the bus.

375

:

I never, I can't really say that I

have been a specimen of any kind.

376

:

I don't know how zoo animals feel,

but if you think about the zoo animals

377

:

where people are walking by just

staring and pointing, that was my

378

:

experience of having all the white

kids staring out this window, pointing.

379

:

And that was my first experience from

anything racially or from a societal

380

:

standpoint, because I'd never interacted

with white kids day in and day out.

381

:

And I will tell you though, and I use

this exercise where I talk about the

382

:

first recollection of being different.

383

:

Tony Tidbit: That

384

:

Kevin Clayton: was really one of my

first recollections of being different,

385

:

but the outcome of that had to do

more from an economic standpoint.

386

:

Then it had to do from any type of

negative impact of me being black,

387

:

because I then went to the homes of

these Jewish kids, because that was

388

:

part of the assimilation, right?

389

:

We're going to take your, take

your new black friend home

390

:

with you and take him to lunch

391

:

Tony Tidbit: so he can get a good dinner.

392

:

Kevin Clayton: And Tony, I saw, I'm

like, wow, the maids quarters were

393

:

bigger than what our little five room.

394

:

Two family house was, and

that just inspired me to

395

:

economically to be, to do better.

396

:

I now had a, I had a example

of what that looked like.

397

:

Tony Tidbit: Right.

398

:

Kevin Clayton: And hell, I became a

homeowner when I was, 23 years old.

399

:

Wow.

400

:

And the reason why is I

knew where I came from.

401

:

I knew what I saw with my Jewish

friends and I'm like, nope, there

402

:

is a different way of living now.

403

:

Other other places.

404

:

Yes.

405

:

We have black folks that are affluent

and they have homes and all of that.

406

:

I just want to, was not afforded to being

able to see that example in my community.

407

:

So that was

408

:

my first kind of connection to, from

a race standpoint and how would I

409

:

know in the fifth or sixth grade that

the work that I would be doing, the

410

:

lifetime of work would have a direct

correlation to that experience.

411

:

Tony Tidbit: And you just

beat me to my next question.

412

:

So I love it.

413

:

I love, we on the same page, buddy.

414

:

We vibing here.

415

:

It's basketball.

416

:

Kevin Clayton: I just gave you,

I just gave you an alley oop.

417

:

You're not

418

:

Tony Tidbit: giving me

an alley oop like a mug.

419

:

Cause I was going to ask you, okay.

420

:

So.

421

:

Did that set you up?

422

:

Why did, why did you do this career?

423

:

What brought you to this career

in terms of what you're doing now?

424

:

Because, and I want to get, we're going

to dive deeper into it, but you're,

425

:

you're, you're, you are creating so much

equity and so much, uh, how should I say?

426

:

impact.

427

:

Well, people can see it.

428

:

It could be measurable, not just in

the sports arena or rock entertainment,

429

:

but throughout the community of the

Cleveland, Ohio, Greater Ohio area.

430

:

So tell us, how did

you get in this career?

431

:

Kevin Clayton: Yeah.

432

:

So, so interesting.

433

:

And this also goes back

to the work of DEI.

434

:

There is no career of DEI relative

to when I went to college, I

435

:

was a business and psych major.

436

:

Okay.

437

:

You, you don't get a degree in DEI.

438

:

Tony Tidbit: Correct.

439

:

Kevin Clayton: So my career started in

with P&G and I had a decade with Procter

440

:

and Gamble in sales and marketing.

441

:

And I was a very successful

executive with P&G.

442

:

And after 10 years, what I realized

was for me to go where I was,

443

:

which was an accelerated pace.

444

:

To the next level, there had not

been many folks that looked like

445

:

me that had gone beyond that.

446

:

Matter of fact, in the sales function,

nobody had gone beyond the level that

447

:

I was at, but I was at that level with

five other of my, of, of, of my peers.

448

:

All across kind of P&G's foothold.

449

:

And I'm like, you know, I'm 31 years old.

450

:

I got 10 years of P&G let me go

open up my own consulting firm,

451

:

because if it doesn't work, I can

always go back to corporate America.

452

:

Cause I got a PD, P&G pedigree.

453

:

So when I was at P&G my last three years

is when we introduced the whole concept

454

:

of diversity as a business strategy.

455

:

And Tony, I'm going back to like the

early nineties, late, late eighties.

456

:

And it was just diversity.

457

:

It was no I and E and B and J

and a, it wasn't all that extra.

458

:

It was clearly a business strategy.

459

:

As we looked at our marketplace and we

looked at our organization and said, what

460

:

sets us apart is that we have people that

look like America versus other companies.

461

:

That are more kind of

homogeneous to just white males.

462

:

The other thing that we identified and

our CEO, John Pepperhead, identified

463

:

that Asian companies or companies

from Asia were coming in, buying up U.

464

:

S.

465

:

companies, they too were kind of

folk that I mean, their makeup was

466

:

primarily men, let it be Asian men of

multiple kind of cultures, if it was

467

:

from China, Japan, Or, or, or Taiwan

knees, those companies were run by men.

468

:

So we, we knew that leveraging diversity.

469

:

And again, it's just diversity.

470

:

And the key word that I wanted

to say was leveraging diversity.

471

:

It's not just going out and hiring people.

472

:

It's like leveraging who we have.

473

:

That brings different perspectives

is going to make a difference.

474

:

It's going to have us say it

will set us up for success.

475

:

So I saw how it worked.

476

:

I was leading a significant high

profile market in Florida, and I

477

:

then wanted to take that learning

to start my consulting company.

478

:

Around how do you leverage

diversity in communities?

479

:

How do you leverage it in companies?

480

:

How do you leverage it with

institutions of higher learning?

481

:

And I was able to do that with a lot of

success to a point where that began my

482

:

journey around this concept of diversity

well before, obviously, George Floyd.

483

:

Was was, was murdered.

484

:

Tony Tidbit: Let me ask you this

question, 'cause I want to be clear.

485

:

Yeah.

486

:

I want the audience to be clear

and make sure they understand.

487

:

So when you say leverage diversity,

provide examples like what

488

:

does that mean specifically?

489

:

Kevin Clayton: Yeah.

490

:

That means that you are doing something

with the diversity of your organization.

491

:

Said differently.

492

:

Oftentimes people look at an organization

and they count and they look at the

493

:

demographics and it's like, Hey, we get

two of those, three of those, five of

494

:

those, six of those, eight of those.

495

:

Okay.

496

:

Tony, all that means is you have two

of those, three of those, five of

497

:

those, six of those, eight of those.

498

:

It doesn't mean that you

have created an environment.

499

:

That your organization can leverage

the fact that I come from a

500

:

completely different background,

even different than you, although

501

:

our skin color and our gender may be

the same, you and I are not the same.

502

:

So if I don't, if I don't create an

environment where I now can give people

503

:

who are different than white males

or white females, an opportunity, I

504

:

don't To bring their uniquenesses.

505

:

And I call this my cultural added value.

506

:

Then all I've done is gone out and hired

people, check the box and I've moved on.

507

:

So leveraging diversity says

I'm doing something with it.

508

:

There's also a term that's

called managing diversity.

509

:

Trust me, if you don't manage diversity,

diversity is going to manage you.

510

:

Tony Tidbit: So again, get,

break it down when you say

511

:

manage diversity specifically.

512

:

Kevin Clayton: Yep.

513

:

Yep.

514

:

So when we talk about managing

diversity, what we're talking about is

515

:

now that I have a team and let's just

say I get five members on my team.

516

:

That I actually have looked at and said,

okay, I had, I do have one of those, one

517

:

of those, one of those, whatever it might

be one female, one person that might be

518

:

LGBTQ, one Latin, a one black, whatever it

might be, then I need to understand that

519

:

those folks are going to bring different

complexities to my management style.

520

:

And if I cannot manage, I mean,

if I use the concept of I'm going

521

:

to manage everybody the same way.

522

:

I am a poor manager,

523

:

Tony Tidbit: right?

524

:

Kevin Clayton: And I would, let me,

let me just use a sports analogy.

525

:

And that sports analogy is if you think

about a basketball team, you would not

526

:

put on that basketball team, five players

that all did the exact same thing.

527

:

Also from a coaching standpoint

of those five basketball players.

528

:

Okay.

529

:

There are people or there are

players, athletes that respond

530

:

to coaching differently.

531

:

Some respond to, I got to get in, get,

get, put a foot in your butt and get you

532

:

going to some that like to be reinforced.

533

:

Yeah.

534

:

I need to give some a pat on the back.

535

:

So to that point, it's, it,

that's, what's managing diversity

536

:

coaches and have managed diversity.

537

:

Those successful coaches

Have managed diversity.

538

:

Think about Phil Jackson with the

Chicago Bulls could not have been more.

539

:

His team could not have been

more diverse by having somebody

540

:

as eccentric as Dennis Rodman to

somebody as great as Michael Jordan.

541

:

Tony Tidbit: Correct.

542

:

Kevin Clayton: And, and the industry

looks at Phil Jackson and he was probably

543

:

the greatest manager of diversity ever

in sports because he won six titles by

544

:

being able to manage the complexity.

545

:

coach the complexity of different

players and their needs.

546

:

Some he gave books to some, he

gave extra time to a day off.

547

:

So managing diversity from a corporate

standpoint is the exact same way.

548

:

Tony Tidbit: Buddy.

549

:

So,

550

:

you know what, man, I, I just, so no

one, thank you, my brother, you know,

551

:

You should run for president, okay?

552

:

Because you know, where we are today,

the way you just broke down leveraging

553

:

diversity and managing diversity in

very simplistic term that anybody,

554

:

regardless of their, uh, racial makeup

or their gender makeup would understand.

555

:

Would for the most part

would be behind it, right?

556

:

Because it makes total sense.

557

:

And it's to your point,

it's for the greater sum.

558

:

Okay.

559

:

Of the company or whether the case

may be, you know, you said you'd

560

:

stated that Procter and Gamble.

561

:

You know, 91, 92, whatever the year

was, it wasn't DE&I, it was just like,

562

:

you know what, here's a business idea.

563

:

We should become more diverse because

by doing that, we're going to have

564

:

more diverse customers, which is going

to help us increase our bottom line.

565

:

All right now.

566

:

Here's the thing, while I go to this

next question, I don't never remember

567

:

anybody attacking Procter and Gamble.

568

:

All right.

569

:

And saying that their initiative

in:

570

:

or bad for their business or, or

it's going to make their business

571

:

upside down or there will Woke.

572

:

And all the things that you hear today.

573

:

So my brother talked to us a little

bit about why is DEI under attack?

574

:

And obviously there's, there

could be a lot of reasons, but I'd

575

:

love to hear your point of view.

576

:

Kevin Clayton: Yeah, Tony,

577

:

I know you have a vast audience and

I'm a, I am a hundred percent down.

578

:

For people responding to me,

because what I'm about to say

579

:

is going to get a response.

580

:

Tony Tidbit: Please, please be honest.

581

:

Here's

582

:

Kevin Clayton: what happened.

583

:

There's a lot of fingers to point

as to why it's now under attack.

584

:

And I appreciate what you just said.

585

:

You know, we, we have all terms for it.

586

:

Now it woke, here's what woke means.

587

:

Woke means my eyes were open to

something that I did not know before.

588

:

Tony Tidbit: Thank you.

589

:

But yet,

590

:

Kevin Clayton: but yet I might as

well call you the N word or something

591

:

because, because it's like, Ooh,

I'm the, wait, don't call me woke.

592

:

Like what?

593

:

Cause you're aware.

594

:

Cause you're

595

:

Tony Tidbit: aware.

596

:

You're aware.

597

:

Kevin Clayton: Yeah.

598

:

So, so with that,

599

:

prior to George Floyd being murdered, you

never heard about DEI being under attack.

600

:

And I'm telling you, I've been

doing this work with title up

601

:

with significant organizations.

602

:

Since the early nineties, you'd

never heard of it being under attack.

603

:

Why?

604

:

Because the early kind of the, the, the,

the early pioneers of the work understood.

605

:

That it was connecting back to my mission.

606

:

If I'm nonprofit or my bottom line, if,

if from a business standpoint, George

607

:

Floyd gets murdered, I will tell you

that the hottest job in America from

608

:

May of 2020, up until probably last year

in kind of early 23, the hottest job

609

:

in America in which the salaries were

double and triple the amount of what they

610

:

should have been was being a DEI leader.

611

:

Why?

612

:

Because white America now felt the

guilt that they had never felt before.

613

:

And I'm now talking about

business America around.

614

:

Wait a minute, we have to do something.

615

:

Wait, how, I mean, what, what, what, what

can I do to kind of help black folks?

616

:

Because now it's, it's obvious

that there's a disparity in

617

:

how they've been treated.

618

:

Again, Tony, you and I started the

conversation, George Floyd was not

619

:

the first, nor was he the last black

man to be killed by the police.

620

:

Tony Tidbit: We're talking

621

:

centuries.

622

:

Centuries of this stuff happened.

623

:

Kevin Clayton: Yes.

624

:

And therefore, what has happened

though, is it caught fire.

625

:

People made, and companies,

they made pledges.

626

:

In the first 60 days, there were 50

billion, which can be tracked of how many

627

:

companies and organizations pledge money.

628

:

You read my bio.

629

:

I went to North Carolina

Central University.

630

:

I got six generations of folks

that went to Florida A& M.

631

:

Historically Black colleges,

you would have thought just

632

:

got started post George Floyd.

633

:

It's like, wait, HBCUs.

634

:

What?

635

:

I'm like, they've been

,:

636

:

Tony Tidbit: Correct.

637

:

Kevin Clayton: So what happens?

638

:

Because we, as a people who have

been oppressed that have not had the

639

:

equity or not had the same level of

respect from a societal standpoint,

640

:

Now we have a door of opportunity to

just kind of, you know, just get a

641

:

little bit, just get a little bit.

642

:

Tony Tidbit: And it's just,

and it's just opportunity.

643

:

Nobody gave us anything.

644

:

It's just opportunity.

645

:

You still got to prove it.

646

:

You still got to do it.

647

:

You still got all those types of things.

648

:

Kevin Clayton: So now doors are

649

:

being opened that maybe weren't

open before pledges of money that

650

:

weren't there are now given to us.

651

:

And the DEI position, and I'm going

to tie all this back together.

652

:

The DEI position I told you

was the hottest in America.

653

:

If you were black or a woman, that was

the qualification to become a Senior Vice

654

:

President or Chief Diversity Officer.

655

:

Tony, I don't know of one other

position that is a real legit position

656

:

in corporate America, where your

qualification is your skin color or your

657

:

gender or your sexual identification.

658

:

But because people didn't know, and

I'm talking about significant, I'm

659

:

talking about government, education,

business, all and nonprofits, because

660

:

they didn't know what this was about.

661

:

They were like, look, let me

go get a black person and make

662

:

them my chief diversity officer.

663

:

Okay, fine.

664

:

So if that's me, I'm not going to be

upset because you're giving me this job,

665

:

but it didn't come with any training.

666

:

It didn't come with what

does success look like?

667

:

Cause success could not look like,

I'm just going to go hire black folks.

668

:

Success could not look like,

help me write a check to an HBCU.

669

:

Sustainable success was not going to

be, uh, helping to eliminate the wrongs

670

:

that have happened to our, to our,

our, our community over the years.

671

:

Success had to be something that

was going to systemically change.

672

:

The economic standpoint of black

folks, educational standpoint of black

673

:

folks, all of the systems that have

been broken and administered unfairly.

674

:

That's what success look like.

675

:

Not just hiring a black person

or a woman and saying, now you're

676

:

my chief diversity officer.

677

:

So here's where we are now to no surprise

of which why I changed my title to

678

:

get DEI kind of as a sideline to talk

about social impact and equity is that

679

:

companies didn't have a strategy other

than let me go hire somebody and you

680

:

tell me what to do and I have colleagues

literally and I coach and mentor

681

:

DEI experts all across this country.

682

:

They have no resources.

683

:

They have no, no, no, no staff.

684

:

All they were given was

a task of go fix it,

685

:

Tony Tidbit: right?

686

:

Kevin Clayton: Okay.

687

:

Some companies that work, some

didn't, but here's the reality.

688

:

It pitted white folks and black

folks against each other in a much

689

:

more acute way than ever before.

690

:

And therefore, there's a certain side

of the aisle that's like, no, you're not

691

:

going to take away any more away from

us Then what has already been taken.

692

:

So the battle is that white males

feel that they are being threatened.

693

:

And because from a political

standpoint, white males have the

694

:

ability to influence legislation, to

also influence corporations, because

695

:

they're still the ones that are holding

the predominant positions of power.

696

:

That's where it went wrong because

it was focused on a short term fix.

697

:

There are less, less DEI leaders

in corporate America today than

698

:

there were actually when it started,

when the whole concept started.

699

:

Tony Tidbit: Let me ask you this.

700

:

Number one, thank you for that, my friend.

701

:

Let me ask you this.

702

:

Um, so just based on what you said.

703

:

You know that, you know, the companies,

you know, felt guilty and now I'm

704

:

going to try to do something and they

created this pretty much new position

705

:

that hadn't been around and they hired

a bunch of people, um, and set them

706

:

up for failure just to be fair, right?

707

:

Because there was no way they had no back.

708

:

They didn't support it.

709

:

They didn't give them any money.

710

:

They didn't do it.

711

:

There was no KPIs.

712

:

It was no business outcome to try to hit.

713

:

Just do it.

714

:

Okay.

715

:

So nine times out of 10, and you said

it a few minutes ago, you said, Hey,

716

:

some of them worked out and some didn't.

717

:

Right.

718

:

My question.

719

:

And I do not disagree with you in terms of

the policy and the power and the pushback.

720

:

Right.

721

:

Here's the thing though, that

I have a question for you.

722

:

So, and I asked another one of

our guests on this, uh, before.

723

:

So if DEI is not, it wasn't working

and it was, it wasn't, you know,

724

:

I don't want to say sham, but it

didn't, it wasn't effective and

725

:

it didn't really make any change.

726

:

What did white people lose?

727

:

Okay.

728

:

So what, what, what I, you know, for

somebody to get upset and says, I feel

729

:

like you're trying to take stuff from

me and we don't want this no more.

730

:

And, but what did they take?

731

:

What, what got tooken?

732

:

Because if it didn't work.

733

:

And it's a, it's a failure and

we haven't seen companies take

734

:

it to the next level and jobs, we

didn't see the equity increase.

735

:

We saw more of a negative

standpoint than what was the loss

736

:

to the white, to the white males.

737

:

Kevin Clayton: Yeah.

738

:

So, so Tony, that, that, that's

a very astute question and

739

:

it's all about smoking mirrors.

740

:

Okay.

741

:

All right.

742

:

So when I grew up in my neighborhood,

there were some brothers on the street

743

:

that used to play the shell game, right?

744

:

You know, what, what, what, what,

what, what, where's the ball?

745

:

Where's the, where's the

746

:

Tony Tidbit: ball?

747

:

Where's the card?

748

:

The

749

:

Kevin Clayton: only time

you or I would have won.

750

:

Is if we were being set up to win

because there was somebody else they were

751

:

trying to get more money from, right?

752

:

Tony Tidbit: Correct.

753

:

They let a couple people win.

754

:

They let a couple

755

:

Kevin Clayton: people win.

756

:

So here's the point that it's

not about the impact of DEI.

757

:

It's was positioned and

it's now being weaponized.

758

:

And if you think about where

is it being weaponized?

759

:

It started on the right hand side of

the aisle from a political standpoint.

760

:

Tony Tidbit: Exactly.

761

:

Exactly.

762

:

Kevin Clayton: As, as a way to

galvanize that base, to make it appear

763

:

that something that they were, that

something was being, we're losing

764

:

Tony Tidbit: something, we're losing

765

:

Kevin Clayton: something.

766

:

Tony Tidbit: Preach my brother.

767

:

And therefore we'll talk about

768

:

Kevin Clayton: therefore, because

it was, it, it didn't exist.

769

:

I mean, you just hit it on the head.

770

:

Like, wait a minute.

771

:

it.

772

:

In some cases it might have

worked, in some cases maybe not.

773

:

But if you think about where it

started, it started in places

774

:

where legislation could be passed.

775

:

And if you

776

:

track where that legislation was

passed, and the NBA has a heat map that

777

:

I get on a regular basis as to where

legislation is being identified and

778

:

focused on either laws that have actually

been passed or pending legislation.

779

:

Then it started with

institutions of higher learning,

780

:

colleges and universities.

781

:

That, well, it really was a tipping

point had to do with the Supreme Court's

782

:

ruling, which was the Supreme Court

ruling that happened in with, with

783

:

Harvard, where it was saying that you

could not use race as a, as a metric

784

:

from, from an admission standpoint.

785

:

Tony Tidbit: Correct.

786

:

Affirmative action overturned.

787

:

Kevin Clayton: Right.

788

:

So, so with that, and that's not

the first time the Supreme Court

789

:

had actually ruled against that.

790

:

So it didn't say you

couldn't have DEI programs.

791

:

But at that point it gave fuel,

it gave fuel to those who were

792

:

trying to light the match.

793

:

Now the match wasn't lighting until that

fuel came out and it's like, Oh wait, this

794

:

caught fire because look, it must be wrong

that the Supreme court is saying is wrong.

795

:

Then you had a number of attorney

generals across the country that said,

796

:

I'm going to take this ruling and

take it from an academic standpoint,

797

:

and I will sue fortune 500 companies.

798

:

And this is all documented.

799

:

Right.

800

:

It's all documented where there were 11

attorney generals that then said, I'm

801

:

going to now sue fortune 500 companies.

802

:

If you use DEI in your metric of

hiring of any from a perspective of

803

:

look, we're going to use what the

Supreme Court just held up with higher

804

:

institutions of higher learning.

805

:

So now think about that.

806

:

If I, if, if now the spotlight is

being put on companies, like it was

807

:

putting on academic institutions.

808

:

Companies are now saying, well,

wait, I don't want to get sued.

809

:

I don't want to do this.

810

:

So therefore We're going

to end these programs.

811

:

We're going to stop the programs at the

end of the day to your point earlier I

812

:

started this work in the late 80s early

90s P&G is heralded as, I mean, their,

813

:

their stock has gone up, up, up, and up.

814

:

So the, the, the challenge

was those individuals.

815

:

And I go back to why

we were set up to fail.

816

:

If I had not been taught how to leverage

diversity, how to manage diversity

817

:

for the betterment or the good of my

organization, where everybody wins.

818

:

And if I feel like I'm being

threatened, then I'm going to want

819

:

to fight and rebel against that.

820

:

So our folks who were leading these

programs weren't taught efficiently

821

:

and effectively on how to develop a

business strategy out of this work.

822

:

They looked at five seats.

823

:

Let me get five folks that are

different around those seats.

824

:

So five folks that are racially different.

825

:

And therefore, boom, I have diversity.

826

:

No, all you got is five people.

827

:

You haven't done anything with it.

828

:

Tony Tidbit: Right, right, right.

829

:

Let me ask you this, my

friend, let's jettison forward.

830

:

Tell us some of the things that you're

doing that's different, that's succeeding,

831

:

because you're affecting, again, like we

talked about earlier, not just the sports

832

:

industry, but also the greater community.

833

:

Kevin Clayton: Yeah, so the first thing

that we did that was different is we

834

:

defined the work of what diversity is,

what inclusion was, what equity was.

835

:

Across our entire

organization that was first.

836

:

So the people understood what it was.

837

:

And I will tell you in all the sessions

that I did, I'm like, however, you

838

:

want to define this work outside of

these four walls, feel free to do so.

839

:

But when you hear the term DEI with the

Cleveland Cavaliers, Here's what it means.

840

:

It has.

841

:

It defines our fans.

842

:

It defines our marketplace.

843

:

It defines our viewing population.

844

:

It defines our, our, our, our

virtual interaction with our fans

845

:

that is not identified as black or

white, but it's looked upon as here

846

:

is a marketplace and if on any of

those fronts on the marketplace.

847

:

If we haven't developed that relationship

with a group of people, regardless of who

848

:

they are, we have a business opportunity,

849

:

Tony Tidbit: right?

850

:

Kevin Clayton: Oh, by the way, it was

typically people of color where we

851

:

had the lagging opportunities, right?

852

:

That's just a business.

853

:

That's okay.

854

:

Well, in order to do that, I

now need to make sure that my

855

:

organization is reflective of the

markets in which we're going after.

856

:

Excuse me.

857

:

So in putting all that in play,

other kinds of things we did, and

858

:

I'm just building the car for you

because we had to build a foundation.

859

:

I have a CEO that was understanding

of this and aggressive enough to say.

860

:

Kevin, we need to also tie this into

compensation and performance development.

861

:

Why?

862

:

Because everything else that we

do is important and we tie it to

863

:

compensation and performance development.

864

:

So at that point, Tony, I basically

built the car to look exactly like

865

:

every other car that was in our

garage of important opportunities

866

:

and important business strategies.

867

:

So just like we have a marketing strategy,

a social, uh, social engagement strategy,

868

:

just like we have a it strategy, a

business analytics strategy, or we have

869

:

a DEI strategy that connects and is as

important as everything else that we do.

870

:

And the reason why is because people

understood no matter if you were short,

871

:

tall, black, white, male, female,

that this is going to be good for me.

872

:

So with that, that was internally

externally, what we did.

873

:

I went to every one of our fan bases.

874

:

By population group and ask how, what

do we need to do to connect with you?

875

:

What are the things in which are working?

876

:

What are the things in which

doesn't work as far as how you feel

877

:

about our interaction with you.

878

:

People will tell you today that when

you walk in Rocket Mortgage's Field

879

:

House, where the Cavs play or our

hockey team, the monsters who actually

880

:

just won their division championship,

you will see a reflection of the

881

:

population base of our community.

882

:

And, and that is so that outside

people feel that they're a part

883

:

of what we're doing inside.

884

:

Correct.

885

:

So, looking at it from that

perspective, if we are a sports and

886

:

entertainment conglomerate that depends

on outside folks, our community,

887

:

our fans coming into our building.

888

:

If it's a Jay Z and Beyonce concert, if

it's, you know, whomever it might be, I

889

:

need to make sure that our fans and our,

and our, and our customers know that this

890

:

is a place that you will feel welcome.

891

:

You

892

:

won't feel as though you're

discriminated against.

893

:

And we've, we've gone through for

five years now to identify areas

894

:

of opportunity, such as, you know,

Cleveland has a nine to 10%, um, 10

895

:

percent population base of Latin folks.

896

:

We didn't have a sign in this building

when I got here that was in Spanish.

897

:

Tony, here's the thing.

898

:

All of our signage is digital.

899

:

So it's not a lot to change.

900

:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

901

:

But I'm saying it's not like you have

to, it wasn't like, Oh, I got it.

902

:

Tony Tidbit: You could just easily just

plug, program that to speak Spanish.

903

:

Exactly.

904

:

Yes,

905

:

Kevin Clayton: exactly.

906

:

Yes.

907

:

So that's what we started doing.

908

:

Right.

909

:

And that population base

is like, wow, that, okay.

910

:

I feel welcome.

911

:

Tony Tidbit: Thank you.

912

:

They were, thank you.

913

:

We feel welcome.

914

:

Kevin Clayton: We had, we put on every

concert in this building and we now have,

915

:

we have two Latin acts that are coming up

this year for the first time because those

916

:

communities said, we don't want to have to

drive to Detroit or Cincinnati or Chicago.

917

:

To hear a Latin performer,

918

:

Tony, that's the business,

919

:

right?

920

:

They feel like they belong.

921

:

They feel a part of,

they feel listened to.

922

:

We feel the same way and at the same

time, we are making, you're making money.

923

:

. We're making money.

924

:

You making money?

925

:

Yes.

926

:

Business Grow money.

927

:

Of which, and I wanna be

really clear to your listeners.

928

:

Money of which goes back to the

foundation that I also run the money

929

:

that's going back to suppliers, vendors,

and the community education programs.

930

:

So it's a reciprocal relationship,

which is what DEI is.

931

:

So there's nobody that can say,

Oh man, you took away from me.

932

:

Or you're, you're leveraging

diversity to make money.

933

:

Yes.

934

:

To give back to you.

935

:

Tony Tidbit: Love it.

936

:

I love it.

937

:

My brother.

938

:

Let me ask you this.

939

:

My brother, my man, um, you did a

really good job painting the landscape

940

:

and I love what you guys are doing.

941

:

What I'm hearing is this.

942

:

I'm hearing your success is

based on the community success.

943

:

Right?

944

:

If you make the community and make

them feel a part of your, your business

945

:

strategies, what you put on, right?

946

:

You become successful

and they become success.

947

:

Let me let me say in other words,

they become successful 1st.

948

:

Then you become successful, right?

949

:

So it's like you said, it's an investment,

not just in the getting LeBron James

950

:

or getting, uh, uh, Donovan Mitchell.

951

:

I'm just naming some of your

players and signing those players.

952

:

I'm like, look, we signed these guys.

953

:

No, that's not, that's part of what we do.

954

:

But the end of what we want

to do is make our community.

955

:

We're signing them.

956

:

We're investing money in them, right?

957

:

Because if we do that, then they're

going to partner with us, not

958

:

just short term, but long term, is

959

:

that

960

:

correct?

961

:

My man,

962

:

Kevin Clayton: you hit it on the head

and let me just tell you very quickly.

963

:

We have a five part strategy

that starts with our team members

964

:

and we use sports vernacular.

965

:

Those are employees, our team members.

966

:

Our objective is to make sure

our team members reflect the

967

:

demographics of our community.

968

:

So why not just so I can check

the box because I know if I hire

969

:

people from the community, they're

going to give me feedback about the

970

:

community, which is also our fans.

971

:

We have

972

:

a fan strategy.

973

:

Our fan strategy connects with how do

we increase the representation of our

974

:

fan base across all of our platforms.

975

:

Retail, virtual, online,

all of those things.

976

:

We then have a marketplace strategy

that says, how do I leverage diversity

977

:

to drive revenue in the marketplace?

978

:

We have a community engagement

strategy and all of these connect.

979

:

So it's not pillars that

are in kind of these silos.

980

:

My platform is a circle because

if I'm not being true to my

981

:

team members and employees.

982

:

They're part of the community

that are part of my fan base.

983

:

That's part of the marketplace

and it all connects,

984

:

Tony Tidbit: correct?

985

:

Correct.

986

:

Kevin Clayton: We, we are verbal about it.

987

:

We are visual about it.

988

:

And it then also is connected back

to a system that is called our

989

:

compensation system, where all of our

bonus eligible team members, which

990

:

are about 90 percent of our team

members have a stake in the game.

991

:

Last year, we added it to

what we call our game plan.

992

:

Which our game plan is like our

annual review or what have you.

993

:

There's a, there's a part on there

that says it's about DEI and community.

994

:

What is it that I'm going to do to

enhance the DEI strategy and plan?

995

:

Why would I want to do that?

996

:

Because it helps

everything else that we do.

997

:

Tony Tidbit: Correct.

998

:

Correct.

999

:

That is awesome, buddy.

:

00:55:48,450 --> 00:55:49,230

That is awesome.

:

00:55:49,230 --> 00:55:51,920

What you guys are doing final

thoughts, my friend, what do

:

00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:52,960

you want to leave the audience?

:

00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:57,050

You already gave us a ton to

be honest, but final thoughts.

:

00:55:57,110 --> 00:55:57,320

Kevin Clayton: Yeah.

:

00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:02,469

So, so Tony me your audience, which

based on the title, which focuses on

:

00:56:02,469 --> 00:56:09,980

the black executive is, is that we

have so much talent and skill above

:

00:56:09,980 --> 00:56:11,720

and beyond what's on our resume.

:

00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:13,670

I referenced this earlier.

:

00:56:13,670 --> 00:56:19,280

This is a whole piece that I do is if,

if I'm being, if I'm going into interview

:

00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:25,740

for a job or for the, say, I'm on a

team already, my cultural added value is

:

00:56:25,740 --> 00:56:30,259

what is different about me than others.

:

00:56:30,340 --> 00:56:32,219

It's not my skin color.

:

00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:38,080

It's what is my life's experience growing

up in Cleveland, Ohio, being then bused

:

00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:43,290

into Shaker, Shaker Heights, being

now in a community with Jewish folks.

:

00:56:43,930 --> 00:56:47,280

That have taken me to a

predominantly black school and then

:

00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:49,100

transferring to a white school.

:

00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:53,310

What are all those things of my

experience that made Kevin Clayton

:

00:56:53,310 --> 00:56:56,040

who I am that I now can talk to?

:

00:56:56,310 --> 00:56:58,609

Oh, here is why I am.

:

00:56:58,690 --> 00:57:00,650

I am a resourceful person.

:

00:57:01,100 --> 00:57:01,610

Tony Tidbit: Why?

:

00:57:01,639 --> 00:57:05,630

Kevin Clayton: Because how I

grew up, we had to be resourced.

:

00:57:05,630 --> 00:57:06,340

And I'm not saying it.

:

00:57:06,390 --> 00:57:07,580

I'm just saying that's my experience.

:

00:57:08,350 --> 00:57:11,550

I'm not speaking categorically for

all black people, but the point

:

00:57:11,550 --> 00:57:16,980

is we look at, Oh, well, I am a

certain race or a certain gender,

:

00:57:17,220 --> 00:57:18,790

and that's what the added value is.

:

00:57:18,830 --> 00:57:22,240

No, it's, it's what are your

experiences as that person

:

00:57:22,469 --> 00:57:23,960

that you can begin to quantify?

:

00:57:23,980 --> 00:57:27,060

And I will tell you a hundred

percent without doubt.

:

00:57:27,060 --> 00:57:30,650

I know when I learned that when I

was 20 years old and interviewed

:

00:57:30,650 --> 00:57:32,410

with P&G my senior year.

:

00:57:33,260 --> 00:57:37,870

And I know that because P&G hires

athletes, they, they want a 3.

:

00:57:38,490 --> 00:57:40,320

2 grade point average.

:

00:57:40,845 --> 00:57:42,665

And they want you to

come from a big school.

:

00:57:43,615 --> 00:57:45,815

I didn't go to a big school.

:

00:57:46,505 --> 00:57:48,444

I was my grade point average was 2.

:

00:57:48,445 --> 00:57:49,525

7.

:

00:57:50,475 --> 00:57:55,494

I got the P&G interview because my

marketing professor was friends with

:

00:57:55,495 --> 00:57:59,144

a P&G executive and he did him a

solid by giving me the interview.

:

00:58:00,875 --> 00:58:01,395

So.

:

00:58:02,035 --> 00:58:04,255

The recruiter was like,

Kevin, you're great.

:

00:58:04,595 --> 00:58:05,475

Really appreciate it.

:

00:58:05,475 --> 00:58:07,215

I mean, you have a good basketball career.

:

00:58:07,215 --> 00:58:08,335

You're a captain of the team.

:

00:58:08,345 --> 00:58:12,495

You're showing leadership, but your

GPA, I mean, talk to me about that

:

00:58:12,515 --> 00:58:13,815

because it's, I mean, you're 2.

:

00:58:13,894 --> 00:58:14,314

7.

:

00:58:14,595 --> 00:58:16,255

We kind of started 3.

:

00:58:16,255 --> 00:58:16,594

2.

:

00:58:17,575 --> 00:58:19,295

Well, Tony, I was a father at 19.

:

00:58:21,455 --> 00:58:29,065

I played basketball at D1

level, captain of the basketball

:

00:58:29,095 --> 00:58:31,295

team, was a resident assistant.

:

00:58:32,930 --> 00:58:42,630

Worked, raised my daughter and also

finished in transferring in schools.

:

00:58:42,670 --> 00:58:44,859

I finished in four years with two degrees.

:

00:58:46,369 --> 00:58:49,649

I was a little bit busier than the regular

:

00:58:50,100 --> 00:58:50,390

person.

:

00:58:50,410 --> 00:58:51,990

Tony Tidbit: Yeah, they

could just focus on school.

:

00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:53,079

Focus on school.

:

00:58:55,129 --> 00:59:00,710

Kevin Clayton: So when I went through and

he, he was like, Whoa, I said, yeah, what?

:

00:59:00,770 --> 00:59:02,880

I mean, I could have dropped

some of these things.

:

00:59:04,210 --> 00:59:08,000

But being a father at age 19,

and I'm not talking about I was

:

00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:10,000

a, I mean, I was a dad at 19.

:

00:59:10,070 --> 00:59:11,090

You were involved.

:

00:59:11,250 --> 00:59:16,069

I was involved and finished

my career or, or finished my

:

00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:17,809

basketball career in four years.

:

00:59:17,810 --> 00:59:20,260

Well, back then, if you transferred,

you had to sit out a year.

:

00:59:20,619 --> 00:59:21,009

Correct.

:

00:59:21,059 --> 00:59:23,179

So I was able to articulate.

:

00:59:23,955 --> 00:59:24,945

Here's what that meant.

:

00:59:25,195 --> 00:59:26,335

And Tony, here's what that meant.

:

00:59:26,775 --> 00:59:30,095

One, it meant that I'm going to be

a lot more responsible than another

:

00:59:30,095 --> 00:59:33,275

21 year old that you're going to

bring into your organization because

:

00:59:33,315 --> 00:59:37,225

I've already had that level of

responsibility at a very early age.

:

00:59:37,895 --> 00:59:42,985

Secondly, it means that I've had a lot

of experiences that most kids don't

:

00:59:42,995 --> 00:59:45,155

have at that age coming out of college.

:

00:59:45,355 --> 00:59:50,355

So, I'm going to probably go faster in

your management program because I've

:

00:59:50,355 --> 00:59:54,375

seen things, I've had to be faster,

I've had to respond to certain things.

:

00:59:54,705 --> 00:59:59,925

Also, being raised by a single black woman

in Cleveland, moving from place to place

:

00:59:59,935 --> 01:00:01,625

to place from an economic standpoint.

:

01:00:02,025 --> 01:00:03,125

I'm thrifty.

:

01:00:03,175 --> 01:00:04,905

I'm, I think about budget.

:

01:00:04,925 --> 01:00:08,245

I think about, so I just went

through to translate all the things

:

01:00:08,245 --> 01:00:10,695

that were my cultural added value.

:

01:00:11,395 --> 01:00:13,185

Again, that's not all black people.

:

01:00:13,235 --> 01:00:14,915

That's Kevin Clayton as a black man.

:

01:00:15,745 --> 01:00:15,865

So

:

01:00:15,865 --> 01:00:18,565

you're looking at somebody who went

to Michigan and played basketball in

:

01:00:18,575 --> 01:00:21,925

Michigan, graduated in five years or me.

:

01:00:22,395 --> 01:00:28,525

I'm now with somebody that was more

adaptable than they were and much more

:

01:00:28,525 --> 01:00:31,875

attractive because of all the things,

but most of us don't take the time

:

01:00:31,875 --> 01:00:33,505

to talk about that or understand it.

:

01:00:33,655 --> 01:00:37,885

So the message I want to leave our folks

is that there's more to us than our

:

01:00:37,885 --> 01:00:42,985

skin color or gender, and it's okay to

translate that what is the transferable

:

01:00:42,985 --> 01:00:46,455

skills that your life's experiences

as a black person has taught you.

:

01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:48,930

That's what I have for you, bro.

:

01:00:49,250 --> 01:00:49,920

Tony Tidbit: I buddy.

:

01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:50,430

I love it.

:

01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:51,430

I appreciate it.

:

01:00:51,430 --> 01:00:54,030

And it's a message that is not said a lot.

:

01:00:54,620 --> 01:00:54,960

All right.

:

01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:59,480

And if it is, it's not said often and

people need to hear that because they

:

01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:04,290

feel that if they don't check a box or

all the boxes, they don't have a shot.

:

01:01:04,955 --> 01:01:08,045

And believe it or not, when you

break it down like that, you get that

:

01:01:08,045 --> 01:01:11,335

opportunity to sit in front of them and

explain your experience and what you're

:

01:01:11,335 --> 01:01:15,305

going to bring, how your experience is

going to help you bring the next level

:

01:01:15,305 --> 01:01:17,065

to the table for this organization.

:

01:01:17,275 --> 01:01:18,545

It makes a big difference.

:

01:01:18,575 --> 01:01:20,195

And it makes a huge difference.

:

01:01:20,195 --> 01:01:22,195

So thank you for sharing that, my man.

:

01:01:22,475 --> 01:01:26,279

Thank you for appearing on the

Black Executive Perspective podcast.

:

01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:29,310

Final thing, man, what can

BEP do for Kevin Clayton,

:

01:01:30,250 --> 01:01:30,530

Kevin Clayton: brother?

:

01:01:30,540 --> 01:01:34,060

One thing that you can do is just

make sure that you give good energy to

:

01:01:34,090 --> 01:01:38,260

Cleveland Cavaliers as we roll through,

as we roll through these playoffs.

:

01:01:39,330 --> 01:01:41,170

Tony Tidbit: Well, look,

bro, I'll tell you this.

:

01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:43,930

I like Donovan, but I like you better.

:

01:01:44,315 --> 01:01:46,675

So at the end of the day,

I got you back on that.

:

01:01:46,695 --> 01:01:48,445

I'm going to root for you guys hard.

:

01:01:48,445 --> 01:01:48,745

Okay.

:

01:01:48,745 --> 01:01:52,755

I'm going to root for you, but outside

of that, my friend, all jokes aside, if

:

01:01:52,755 --> 01:01:57,545

there's anything that we can do for you

at any time, you know, just let us know.

:

01:01:57,555 --> 01:01:59,245

We really, really appreciate it.

:

01:01:59,255 --> 01:02:02,105

We'd love to have you come

back at some time soon as well.

:

01:02:02,515 --> 01:02:03,785

Kevin Clayton: Uh, Tony, I appreciate it.

:

01:02:03,795 --> 01:02:05,045

Just being on your show.

:

01:02:05,135 --> 01:02:06,535

I mean, that's a big step forward.

:

01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:11,380

I have a message that I want folks

to hear and your platform is a great

:

01:02:11,380 --> 01:02:12,940

one for me to be able to communicate.

:

01:02:13,020 --> 01:02:13,650

So thank you.

:

01:02:14,250 --> 01:02:15,330

Tony Tidbit: You're welcome my brother.

:

01:02:15,330 --> 01:02:20,290

So Kevin Clayton, Senior Vice

President at the Cleveland Cavaliers.

:

01:02:20,290 --> 01:02:21,980

We really appreciate him coming on.

:

01:02:22,260 --> 01:02:26,050

And so now I think it's

time for Tony's tidbit.

:

01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:26,870

Okay.

:

01:02:26,870 --> 01:02:30,940

So based on what Kevin talked about

today, the tidbit is from Maya Angelou.

:

01:02:31,310 --> 01:02:37,030

And the tidbit is we all should know

that diversity makes for a rich tapestry.

:

01:02:37,580 --> 01:02:43,190

And we must understand that all threads

of the tapestry are equal in value.

:

01:02:43,890 --> 01:02:45,750

No matter what their color.

:

01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:50,460

And you heard a lot of that from our

partner and our friend, Kevin Clayton.

:

01:02:50,460 --> 01:02:51,520

So we want to thank him.

:

01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:52,550

We want to thank you.

:

01:02:52,710 --> 01:02:56,970

So we hope that you enjoyed

this episode of navigating the

:

01:02:56,970 --> 01:03:02,340

crossroads DEI under fire and the

path of social impact and equity.

:

01:03:02,620 --> 01:03:04,200

It's time for our call to action.

:

01:03:04,510 --> 01:03:07,270

Our goal is to decrease

racism, all the isms.

:

01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:13,590

So our acronym is L E S S L stands

for learn, continue to educate on

:

01:03:13,590 --> 01:03:17,550

people that you don't know, things

that you don't know, cultural nuances.

:

01:03:17,550 --> 01:03:20,709

You don't know E once you

learn now you should have.

:

01:03:20,860 --> 01:03:25,130

Empathy for your fellow human being

and understand what they go through.

:

01:03:25,490 --> 01:03:26,850

S stands for share.

:

01:03:27,010 --> 01:03:31,550

Now, since you've learned, you want to

share what you've learned to your friends

:

01:03:31,550 --> 01:03:33,450

and family so they can be enlightened.

:

01:03:33,650 --> 01:03:35,820

And the other S stands for stop.

:

01:03:36,295 --> 01:03:39,075

We want to stop discrimination

wherever you see it.

:

01:03:39,285 --> 01:03:42,675

So if grandma's at the Thanksgiving

table saying stuff, you say,

:

01:03:42,675 --> 01:03:44,585

grandma, we don't say that no more.

:

01:03:44,695 --> 01:03:46,275

And you stop it wherever you are.

:

01:03:46,275 --> 01:03:51,225

So if we all incorporate less

L E S S we'll build a fair,

:

01:03:51,255 --> 01:03:52,595

more understanding world.

:

01:03:52,625 --> 01:03:54,369

And we'll be able to see.

:

01:03:54,370 --> 01:03:58,420

The change that we want to see tune into

our next episode, the black executive

:

01:03:58,420 --> 01:04:01,850

perspective, wherever you get your

podcast, please go to our website.

:

01:04:02,140 --> 01:04:03,220

Give us some feedback.

:

01:04:03,250 --> 01:04:03,850

Let us know.

:

01:04:03,860 --> 01:04:04,780

How did you like Kevin?

:

01:04:05,010 --> 01:04:06,770

Was there some questions

you have for them?

:

01:04:06,990 --> 01:04:09,440

Did I did, was there some

questions I didn't ask?

:

01:04:09,660 --> 01:04:10,480

Let us know.

:

01:04:10,650 --> 01:04:14,740

And please follow our website, excuse

me, follow a black executive perspective

:

01:04:14,860 --> 01:04:21,540

on all our social channels, LinkedIn

X YouTube, Instagram, and Tik TOK at

:

01:04:21,540 --> 01:04:23,960

a black exec for our fabulous guests.

:

01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:28,510

Kevin Clayton for my man, AA, who

does all the things behind the

:

01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:30,060

background and make this happen.

:

01:04:30,300 --> 01:04:31,630

I'm Tony tidbit.

:

01:04:31,860 --> 01:04:32,880

We love you a lot.

:

01:04:33,180 --> 01:04:35,430

We talked about it and we're out

:

01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:42,180

BEP Narrator: a black

executive perspective.

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