1  2  How do you define a Customer?

In this episode....

CUSTOMER

'You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means....' (Thanks Inigo Montoya)

In this episode of Journey to Success: CX Conversations, we dive deep into the nuanced definitions of a "customer." We explore the common yet simplistic understanding of a customer as merely someone who purchases goods or services. Our discussion broadens to include internal customers, emphasizing the importance of recognizing peers, employees, and even leadership as customers who receive value from our work. We also discuss the distinctions between terms like customer, client, and consumer, noting that while they are often used interchangeably, they can have specific connotations depending on the context and industry.

We highlight the significance of mindset in customer experience, particularly in recognizing that everyone we provide a service to is a customer, whether internal or external. This broader understanding impacts how organizations approach customer experience, with smaller businesses often placing more value on each customer due to their scale, while larger corporations might overlook this due to the sheer volume of their customer base. We encourage listeners to rethink their definitions and approach to customer relationships, advocating for a more inclusive and holistic view that enhances collaboration, teamwork, and overall customer satisfaction.

Whether you're just starting your career or a seasoned professional aiming to stay ahead of industry trends, Journey to Success: CX Conversations is your essential resource for everything related to Customer Experience (CX) and Customer Success (CS). Designed for individuals at every stage of their professional journey, our podcast provides a wealth of information and guidance to help you navigate the complexities of the customer-centric business world.

Raymie Corpuel

With 20+ years of diverse experience, Raymie is a recognized leader in Enablement, Customer Success, and Customer Experience. Known for her dedication to improving the customer journey, she's been pivotal in creating customer-focused cultures across different organizations.

Sue Yendell

Sue has over 25 years of professional experience, ranging from database administration to chief of staff roles, with a strong focus on Leadership, Enablement, and Service. Sue decided to become a trained executive coach and give that same gift to others, earning certification through Coach Training EDU, and is nearly ready to submit for International Coaching Federation certification.

Episode 2 - What is a Customer?

Sue: Welcome back everyone. Uh, if you're joining us for the first time, happy to have you on, uh, journey to success or CX conversations podcast. today we're going to be talking about what a customer is. Um, lots of different definitions across different industries, run across a ton myself. I know you have,

Um, I have obviously a lot of thoughts on it, and I think that's why we're doing this, this episode here. But, you know, you talked about different industries have different definitions of customers. And I think that's true to a certain degree, but I think there's also some universal, um, I, I think for me really where the true delineation comes.

And I think a lot of times we tend to forget the internal customer piece of it.

Sue: Absolutely. And it, it, it's interesting. We get in this discussion at work pretty frequently, uh, customer versus client.

Raymie: Mm hmm.

Um, and. I think it's been pervasive that a customer is somebody that buys something, um, usually a goods. And, but when you talk about services, I think people go more towards client. it's interesting internally, I agree in internal customers, um, but are all customers consumers?

Raymie: I mean, I think that's probably a good delineation. There is a consumer piece.

Sue: Mm

Raymie: But then we get into, so what is a consumer? What does that mean?

Sue: hmm. Mm hmm.

Raymie: You know,

Sue: I

it means what you think it means.

Those of you who know. Oh, I love the princess bride and I will probably quote that multiple times. And so when you say customer, when you say consumer, when you say client, what do you actually mean by that? And you know, in our last episode, we talked about the customer mindset workshop. That we did and it's perception and, um, interpretation of something, which can be such a big difference when you're talking to somebody and you may be saying one thing and you know what it means, but the person who's receiving it thinks of it completely different.

That's why, what do you mean by consumer when you say that? .

Sue: , I think, uh, when I think of consumer, I think of an end user of goods or services.

Sue: somebody who literally is consuming. I go to the literal definition, right?

Raymie: Mm

Sue: and I usually think more of

things that are not, you know, Or things that get used up, I think, um, just from a connotation standpoint. and I very much differentiate that from a client in a lot of ways. Um, client is. about relationship like from a coaching standpoint the people that I coach our clients and when I'm getting coached, I'm the client And and from a professional standpoint, I think that's pretty standard

But I think when we talk about consumer versus customer, don't think there's a huge difference Um,

Raymie: Mm hmm.

Raymie: Yeah. I think they can be, and I actually had a thought of pulling up a dictionary and reading a definition of a customer. Maybe we'll Do that later in this episode, but, um, for me, when I think about a customer It's anyone that, for me, who's my customer, is anyone that I provide a good or service to. And that's, for me, across the board, it doesn't matter if they are internal, it's a peer, an employee, or if it's an external facing person who's purchased something. And I think maybe sometimes that's where that delineation comes from, is if there's money tied to it. If, if there's money tied to it, then they're a customer.

Sue: that really differently though. probably to most people, because we think of internal customers and those people are getting value out of you there. They're getting maybe a service or your time or, input, or you're working together. they're getting something from you, but it's not, they didn't pay for it.

Um, generally, I mean, internal costs aside, but it's not really, I mean, if I were helping out at a soup kitchen and nobody paid a thing, I would still see those people as my customers, you know, regardless

Raymie: that's a mindset,

Sue: hands. Mm hmm.

While that's true, they are a customer, you're missing so much of what a customer truly is and um, which will impact the ultimate customer experience.

Sue: Yeah. I think it really. Thinking of only someone who pays is, is really doing a disservice. Um, but I think that's why you and I, Bonded all those years ago because

Raymie: hmm.

Raymie: Mm hmm.

Sue: so. Yeah, I feel like anyone who just thinks it's someone who pays is doing a disservice. Consumer I can go more with people who pay for something,

Raymie: Right.

Sue: customer is that distinction.

Raymie: Well, maybe that's, that's the difference between a consumer and a customer is the financial aspect of it.

Sue: Mm hmm. Yeah.

Raymie: Yeah. that makes sense.

Sue: Yeah. I think that I think that makes some sense. what have you seen when people start realize that a customer isn't just someone who buys something? You did that training program all those years

There's, there's a collaboration. There's working with different people to come to a solution to solve a problem. You know, I think you mentioned teamwork, right? I think that's, that's, that's huge and all working together for the benefit of somebody. maybe it's the, I'm not alone. I think that's probably what it is.

I also think, you know, when we start talking about internal customers or essentially your peers or, leadership to me, it's anyone I, for me, I, anyone I provide a service to. Is my customer and that could be my direct manager. It could be leadership could be my peers could be cross collaboration.

And that's how I approach things. When I think of customer experience and, and, you know, talking to folks in HR, people, operations, and they tend to coin the phrase employee experience. And it's different than customer experience. I don't feel it really is.

Sue: I think

Raymie: there's, there's,

Sue: the customers of

Raymie: there's, there's, there's similar, um, there may be a few nuances, but with everything, there's nuances.

Sue: interact directly with our customers at work, but I interact with the people that do. And I'm providing content that is sometimes used. At a customer level. So

it's very, um, it, it just being one step removed doesn't mean I'm not responsible for the customer experience because what I do feeds out. and if I'm providing content to my boss, who is then using it because he does interact with customers all the time. Um, so I really feel like it's part of my responsibility, even if I'm not doing it directly.

And I think that's something that. I've taken to heart, which is why we keep coming back to this topic and finally landed on the podcast, but I never treated my internal customers any differently than I would someone who is directly paying for a good or service, because I mean, at the end of the day, part of that is my mindset and my personality, but, at the end of the day, that's better for everybody.

Sue: It. That's kind of how I see it. I think of my first role back at our prior company and, you know, I was doing technical documentation, right? And I, I that from prior experience at the other company. And I was writing material that had to be easily understandable and explainable and clear, to people who speak different languages to people who, know, don't have their first language necessarily.

Um, I mean, it's the simple, simple, easy things of making sure you're making communication with you easy.

Raymie: right?

Sue: it, it, for me, it start the basis of all of it is simple communication, um, which is probably why I keep finding myself in roles where I do a lot of that.

Right. And again, it's that level of assumption, and we need to take that assumption out and

Sue: Mm

I don't think a lot of post sales groups do that. Um, I don't know that all organizations outside of SAS do that, I think. It's pretty common in the tech space, especially in sales. Um,

Sue: I think in terms of mindset, Um, I think for most big corporations, they definitely have a target, right? Cause they know where they're going to spend their marketing budget. Um, and they pay people very well to do that research and make those decisions and try those things out and different marketing campaigns and things like that, to see what pays off with what type of customer, um, and they have the money and time.

Raymie: Mm hmm. Right.

Sue: that's, I mean, that's a totally great strategy and a valid strategy when you're starting out a small business.

But what I've generally experienced is smaller businesses tend to some exceptions, value their customers more, right? Cause each customer means so much more because they don't have thousands upon thousands or millions of customers, right? it's different when you're going down to, you know, locally owned hardware store, um, that only has six employees as opposed to, you know, buying a tool off one of the big box stores, right?

Raymie: Mm hmm. That's interesting. Um, as you were saying that, I was starting to think of how do you define, we're on this whole definition thing, right? How do you define value? How do you define how a customer, how a business values a customer? What does that mean? Is it

Sue: I mean, I

Raymie: a white, is it a white glove service?

Is it financial things? I think sometimes companies think,

treating them like a number, like there's, there's all that out there. Um, I think that happens with smaller companies too, but where do we, where do you see the big difference in value in a customer from a larger business versus a smaller business? Like, where's that line?

Um, it,

Raymie: So do you feel that the larger companies can just get away with not valuing customers because of that? Where small, smaller corporations or businesses can't?

Sue: I think in general, yes, that's not to say all big companies are bad. There are some big companies out there that are. Incredibly well known for customer service because they've made that part of their focus.

Raymie: Mm hmm. Mm

Sue: you know, offering excellent warranties, um, lifetime warranties on things, you know, just making things easy for their customers.

I think that at the end is the value. Um, will pay a little more to go to a local business. Very often, you know, if I have a home project, I'm going to go to the small hardware store where I know that that guy has, you know, done DIY projects all of his life and has used just about every tool in his store, as opposed

Sue: box store where, know, I'm talking to someone who's never picked up a hammer.

Raymie: Right.

Sue: It's,

Raymie: makes sense.

Sue: That level of, of contact and understanding and that is very different.

Raymie: So a lot of what we've just been talking about, I think, is really that external customer piece. How, how does that now transfer internally from the value aspect and, and mindset there?

Sue: Yeah. It's interesting. Um, I've been in the corporate world, you know, 25 plus years now, and I've

Raymie: hmm.

I know my HR contacts. I partner with them. I talk to them. I'm friendly with them. I know our learning and development team. Um, we collaborate. It, individual contacts are so much more. Intimate, I guess at a smaller place. I haven't worked for a small business other than my own little. LLC you know, 30 plus years since I was a teenager.

I think advantage, at least once you get to medium sized business is you usually have the ability to invest in internal customer experience in a way that. A mom and pop, a restaurant just generally doesn't. Um,

Sue: yeah, yeah, for sure. and generally really small companies. I mean, your average small business doesn't have necessarily multiple departments that have to interact and collaborate, right. They're usually more

Raymie: Mm hmm. Yeah.

Sue: Um, so that leads to less.

Need to care about internal customers, everybody's kind of working together on the same thing. and in an environment that's really small, if somebody's just not working out, if somebody can't treat their coworkers well and, and, You know, consider one team, then they're just not going to survive there.

Right. Um, and a bigger company, it can take time for folks that have those kinds of attitudes to work themselves out. But I see,

you don't expect that at a big hotel, a chain hotel or something like that, you

Raymie: right. Yeah. And I think again, that's a mindset. I think it's just because that's how we experience things. Should it be that way? No, I think,

Sue: mm.

Mm

Raymie: um, everybody should be treated, with decency and respect and regardless of if it's a small group of people. Company, a large company, doesn't matter, of course, you know, things get lost along the way.

And I liken it almost to like a game of telephone, right? The larger your company is, the more people you have in between

Sue: Mm

Sue: And for everyone to be speaking with the same voice and the same mindset and the same common great for everybody. Um, yeah, it's harder in a bigger environment for sure.

Raymie: Mm hmm.

And I think that's where a lot of the work needs to come in is with those larger companies. Um, not saying that doesn't need to happen in smaller organizations, but I, I think there's a lot more work that needs to be done for that customer experience when working with a customer internal, external, when you're in those larger organizations that have multiple layers with them.

Um. I will die on that Hill

Sue: Yep.

Raymie: you have to, no matter what level you are, you have to think with the customer in mind, all customers, no matter your life. If I'm a CEO, everyone beneath me in a, you know, organization hierarchy is my customer, everything.

Sue: Absolutely.

Does this make sense for our customers?

Sue: Mm hmm. Yeah.

Raymie: Right? You're not point. You're not tying everything together.

Sue: Yeah. I think it's, uh, you know, they always talk about people or people talk about people at the top being too far removed and not really

Raymie: Mm hmm.

Sue: with, um, what regular people go through.

Raymie: Mm hmm.

Sue: you know, when you're sitting and making, you know, Tens of millions of dollars a year. You're really not in touch with someone who struggles to pay rent.

Raymie: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Sue: a common language so that everybody's on the same page. mean, at the end of the day, People move around in companies, right? Just because I'm not customer facing today, doesn't mean I might not be tomorrow.

Um, and a lot of companies have, you know, onboarding training that may talk about dealing with a customer. But two years later, when somebody changes roles and all of a sudden they're customer facing what's happening to support their understanding of the company's approach to customers at that point, um, you know, some,

Raymie: Right. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm

but I think, you know, Understanding the company, the overall approach to customers making sure that everybody practices that every day. Because if I'm treating my internal customers the way I should treat external customers, if I transition roles, I've already got the skills. Because it's already part of my every day.

But if

Sue: customer experience, someone else's problem, because I don't directly interact with customers, you know what I mean?

If you're providing anything, they're your customer. You're accountable for it.

Sue: So, uh, thanks for joining us today. It's been fun and thought provoking, which is great. everybody go out there and be kind. Um, everything starts with that.

Raymie: All right. See you next time.