“The finish line is not a final destination, but a breathtaking view that fuels the next journey.” In this episode, Coach Stephen Horan celebrates a major milestone: completing his 20th IRONMAN. With over 15 years of endurance racing Stephen takes time to reflect on the lessons learned from each finish line. From the power of community in training, to embracing pressure as a privilege, and finding strength through adversity, Stephen shares personal stories and hard-earned insights that go beyond the race course. Whether you're an athlete, a goal-setter, or simply seeking motivation, this episode will leave you inspired to chase your own next finish line.

Welcome to the Tri Dot podcast.

Today I have coach Steven Horan, longtime tryout ambassador and now the head coach of Iron Mind endurance.

Coach Steven just completed his 20th Ironman at the world Championships in Nice, so I asked him to come share the top lessons he has learned from his own racing experience.

I'm Andrew, the average triathlete, voice of the people and captain of the middle of the pack.

We treat the show like any good workout.

We'll start with a warmup question, settle into our main set conversation where we'll see what we can learn from coach Stephen and then wind things down by having coach Steven answer an audience question on the cooldown.

Lots of good stuff.

Let's get to it.

This is the Tridot podcast, the triathlon show that brings you world class coaching with every conversation.

Let's get started with today's warmup.

All right, Coach Stephen, welcome to the show.

So happy to have you on for the very first time.

And since we're talking about your race history and all the different races you've done, we're going to hear a lot of different Ironman this, Iron man that thrown around today, I thought a fun warm up question would be this.

From all the races you have done, what has been your favorite swim course, your favorite bike course and your favorite run course?

Take it away, sir.

Oh, Andrew, thank you.

This is very exciting to actually be on.

So glad you reached out for me to be able to be here.

So it was hard, right?

When you kind of think about like favorite, you have to like, okay, what is it?

Is it like the best location, is it the fastest?

You know, you have to kind of think through that overall.

So I'm kind of hit a both, both and on those in that sense.

Right.

But you know, swim course, my favorite no doubt has been Kona.

That is like the most beautiful water.

When you go, it's hard, right?

I mean I'm not the great swimmer.

I know you said similar things, right.

It's like, it's like I'm not the greatest swimmer and it's non wetsuit but it's really beautiful.

But when I think about my favorite swim, it was actually Ironman Chattanooga because it's fast.

It was wetsuit legal.

You can jump on the water and you can basically float down and easily, easily make cut off.

So yeah, kind of kind of a boat from a bike standpoint.

I mean, I've done nice twice now and nice is the most beautiful bike course.

I mean it is really hard.

So that doesn't make it really a lot of Climbing, but it's.

And also the downhills, but the scenery was beautiful and we'll talk a little bit more about that today.

But, you know, I really took the time this year to spend the time looking at it.

I was like, man, I just got to get through it and.

But just spending the time was.

Been really good this year to be able to kind of really enjoy that course a little differently and then run.

That one was a hard one.

And I think, you know, there's a couple of races and you know, the loot courses are nice, but also the crowd support is really good.

And I had really two that I was going back and forth because.

Nice, yes, very good crowd support, but it's an out and back, out and back out and back out and back.

Just down to the airport and back down to the airport and back.

Exactly.

And.

But I'll tell you, Ironman, Texas is awesome.

Yeah, that's a good run course.

You know, I mean, it's just the crowd support.

You're kind of running your group.

If that's with you, your family can jump back and forth.

Really easy to see you multiple times.

There's another race, though, that I was able to do and we'll talk about it in Ironman Frankfurt.

But that was like really very, very similar and it was just the same way.

I mean, the Europeans are just crazy in the sense of their amount of support.

And it's just really.

It was pretty awesome both at the finish line also, because you go into this small area, you kind of funnel down and then they just have stands with bunches of.

Bunches of people just out there and it's just like it was a whole party all day long.

So I would say Texas and Frankfurt were really the two for that one.

Yeah.

And I love here, Stephen, that we're already getting a glimpse of some of the races you've done and we're going to talk about all those races in the main set a little bit more.

This answer for me, the swim.

The swim course was the easiest decision.

This one course is undefeated for me and will probably remain that way.

Ironman New Zealand, if anybody's been there, it is crystal clear lake water.

I'm sure it can get choppy on a stormy day, but for the most part it is just a tranquil, peaceful flat.

It is just the easiest.

You can see everybody around you.

You can see the buoys, you can see everything so easy.

The temperature is perfect in a wetsuit.

That was my Very first Ironman event and it spoiled me for the rest of them.

I have done the swim in Kona.

I obviously haven't raced Kona but while I was there representing Tri Dot we went and days before the race got in the water at Dig Me beach, swam in the Coffee boat and back.

So that, that is a great swim venue that I have not raced personally.

But yeah, Ironman New Zealand is my swim for the bike.

All the Ironman events I've done, I've never loved any of the bike courses.

I've liked some of them.

My favorite bike course I've done is the bike course at Clash Daytona.

You cannot beat spending the first few laps of your half Ironman just being on your bike on Daytona Motor Speedway doing, doing laps around the NASCAR track.

Such a cool experience.

We rave about it and rave about it and rave about it because it is, it's just a unique one.

So I'm going to give a shot to that one.

Once you're off the race course the rest of the day is kind of boring but it's flat and fast so no complaints there on flat and fast.

For my run I'm going to give a shout out to two races.

My favorite triathlon run ever was probably the run at Escape from Alcatraz.

It's just such a unique experience.

You're on and off trails, you're going, you go through tunnels, you go up and down the sand ladder, you're on the beach, you're off the beach, you're climbing a hill, you're, you're bombing down a hill.

The Golden Gate Bridge is always right there.

Just so cool.

That's not an Ironman event.

So to give a shout out to an Ironman event I'm going to say 70.3 Greece.

I really enjoyed that run course.

They've moved this race since when I did it.

So if someone goes and does Ironman Greece and they hear me say this, it's probably a different run course now but when I did kind of went through this kind of protected marsh land that was like on the coast and so it was just like this, this really cool like gravel trail running just always by the ocean, always by the bay and it was just really beautiful.

And when you weren't by the water you were kind of going through these rustic Grecian small villages that had some crowd support out cheering for you.

So really cool run course there in Greece.

Those are my shout outs.

I'm in New Zealand.

Clash, Daytona, Greece, Alcatraz.

We're going to throw this question out to the try that audience.

Make sure you answer this question.

You can answer it either on YouTube, watching the YouTube video of this conversation.

You can answer this question on Spotify watching the Spotify video version of this conversation, or you can answer this question on our social media accounts.

We'll post the question everywhere because I want to hear from you, from your own personal triathlon race experience.

What's your favorite swim course?

What's your favorite bike course?

What's your favorite run course?

Can't wait to hear what our audience has to say.

Let's go onto the main set where coach Steven is going to walk us through the 20 Ironman events he's done, specifically pointing out from each race one lesson that he learned.

And coach Stephen, it's your first time on the try out podcast, so before we get to that, I do want to kind of give our audience a chance to get to know you, who you are, what your history in the sport is, and then we'll rip through those 20 lessons.

So let's just start here.

Just where did you even start as a triathlete and what has been kind of the short version of your journey from new triathlete to 20 time Ironman finisher?

Yeah, you really have to think about.

So my background, I'm a Marine, you know, so I was in the United States Marine Corps.

I was kind of more of a runner by trade.

And you know, I think a lot of people have transitioned from running into triathlons.

And I'm really that same story.

So it made it a little more challenging for me kind of going into, hey, how do I swim?

How do I bike?

I got recalled back to the Marine Corps just for a period of time after 9, 11.

And one of my other Marines that was with me, he kind of challenged me to do something a little bit different, more than just running.

And he motivated me to be able to go back and say, hey, let's go do a triathlon.

And I returned back home, bought my very first road bike and signed up for my very first, first pool swim.

Probably similar to most people, I barely could swim across the pool without stopping, you know, and thank God it was a pool swim because I did have and.

But it was funny, I went back and looked at some old pictures before and you know, I was wearing the typical tight run shirt and I really didn't even have tri shorts.

It was just regular shorts.

Yeah.

And.

But that created that movement for me and saying, hey, how do I do something different?

How do I Challenge myself.

And, you know, as the typical runner, you know, I was always running and I just couldn't continue doing it.

And that motivated me to say, hey, let me go to that next step within triathlons.

And once I started, you start forming that community.

And it was the community that kind of drove me along to my very first Ironman.

And I was doing a little bit of 70.3 distances.

You know, White Lake is one of the local races here in North Carolina that I did multiple times.

And then I started the 70.3 series with an Ironman and I did like Ironman or 70.3 Raleigh, which is not around anymore.

But my very first Ironman was an Iron distance race.

And my friend that was I was training with actually kind of taunting me saying, hey, let's go do this together.

And the funny thing is, is he actually did not even go and race.

He kind of dropped out.

But I formed that community because I started grabbing on with other people that were training.

And I learned more about the Ironman brand.

I learned more about those races.

And immediately after beach the Battleship, I signed up the day after for Ironman North Carolina.

And it was just, you know, just really excited to be able to go do that, but, you know, kind of continued on through, you know, and to be able to go do that and realizing that, hey, what does that take?

What is that community?

And we'll go into a lot of those details with some of those different races.

But it was really a whole aspect of just starting at the very beginning and, you know, saying, hey, can I go do this?

Learning how to swim, learning how to bike, forming that community and really jumping forward to be able to kind of taking those steps as I kind of progress along.

So, Stephen, I'm curious, where in your training and race history did you start racing?

With Tridot.

You're a Trident coach now.

You coach your athletes through Tridot.

You've been a longtime ambassador for Tridot.

I've known you for a number of years, met you a couple times at races.

You're already rocking the tri dot polo here in the podcast video.

How did you discover us?

When did you start using Tridot and what difference has it made for your journey?

Yeah, so most people don't know.

Everything had to be printed off.

I remember meeting with Cindy and having my first discussions with Cindy.

And in the preseason project, one of the things that you ended up having to do very different than where we are today is you had to do.

You had to submit a paper at the very end about all the stuff and all your learnings.

I decided at that point, and it was mostly probably due to timing for me.

And when I ended up doing it, it was not right for me.

I ended up doing the preseason project over Thanksgiving and over Christmas, and I'm like, yeah, it was killing me.

And I'm like, this isn't flexible enough or anything.

I came back to try it out full time in the sense of trying to say, hey, how do I want to do that?

And probably like most people that have been in the, you know, in the triathlon and kind of continue doing it, you know, you start going and you do all these different things.

And I wanted something different.

It wasn't because I was injured.

It wasn't because.

But I wanted something because I felt like I was very stagnant with my overall fitness.

And so for me, getting the trident, really trying to do and being very focused in the training become very important for me.

And I, again, I was.

You know, my kids were a little bit older at the time.

My kids today are 21 and 18.

But, you know, in that sense, it just gave me the opportunity to be really focused and we'll go through.

I mean, you know, really, I'm starting set bigger goals.

I wanted to ensure I was going to get, you know, to Kona, and this was an opportunity for me to go and do something different.

Yeah, absolutely.

I love it.

So I want to get us to the heart of our episode where we're going to hear from you on your 20 Ironman events, and you have one takeaway lesson from each of them.

I'm just going to kind of let you go race by race and share what the race was, what the takeaway was.

You can kind of share the moment or the race story behind your takeaway, and we'll just kind of see how our conversation flows for the next 40 minutes.

But I'm excited to get into it.

So let's start with Iron man number one and lesson number one.

What was your takeaway there, Coach Stephen?

Yeah, I mean, you know, my big takeaway is find your reason.

And I know a lot of people talk about, you know, you got to understand your why, you know, and this first race really taught me the most fundamental lesson.

Right.

Of that.

You know, I mean, again, I was improved a little bit, but there was some community behind it.

But it was really, I had to start understanding that and you know, understanding that with that it was my loved ones.

You know, I'm setting the example for my family, you know, what, what those overall aspects.

And I think you need to make sure as an athlete that you really do understand the why.

And I was, you know, I gave some, some stuff.

And you know, Andrew, as we were talking earlier, it's like, you know, every race is hard and no matter how many I've done.

And so you have to understand that.

Right.

And because that's what's going to help you get through those toughest miles.

And it just, I had to understand that I was setting the example for my kids, you know, to be able to go do that, that I wanted to be able to kind of continue thinking about being healthy and setting those overall examples to be able to get through all of the training, you know, and the overall race.

But it's, you know, you got to have that and that becomes the basis.

I think that kind of led.

And I'm not saying your why doesn't change, but it's what led me.

Every single race is understanding that why.

And so I, I'm glad I did learn that early on because it became that basis to be able to move forward.

Yeah, when I did my first full distance Ironman and only full distance Ironman to date, my why, honestly was just to have it on my resume as a triathlete that I had done a full distance Ironman, I wanted to be able to call myself an Ironman.

I wanted to be able to put an Ironman window decal on the car and have people be like, oh, you did an Ironman and not have to say, oh, I did a half.

I wanted to just know that I'd done one full and I've only done the one full, frankly.

I mean people, longtime listeners will know I just enjoy the middle distance more and so that's more what my target is.

I think I will do a full again.

But yeah, I got to find that reason, I got to find that why.

And honestly, I think that reason and why will probably be eight years from now, seven years from now, when my, when my kid is old enough for her to realize like, oh, dad is chasing something hard, he's doing something hard, he's putting in a time and effort to do something hard.

And that's what it looks like to dream and work towards a dream.

And that will probably even be my why on Ironman number two.

And that will probably be a long time from now.

But I love this being your very first one.

You had to find your reason on race number one.

And I love that you mentioned that in the 20 it's changed from race to race, but each time you've identified what that reason is, correct?

Yes.

And I'll tell you, no doubt my family is fully behind and my daughters, even as old as they are now, love going to races.

And you know, my oldest ended up not being able to go because she works now.

But she, we FaceTime her in why I'm actually racing and that she said, I know this was hard and you know, congratulations.

And so that example, I think makes a big difference and I think, you know, you can have multiple whys also.

And, you know, one of the things as, you know, as your daughter grows up, I think it's just awesome to be able to continue setting that example.

Yeah.

What was your lesson from that race?

Yeah, it was Trainwood community and a little bit of background.

Right.

I mean, you know, you gotta realize that racing and doing all of this is not really a solo endeavor.

It makes it hard if you try to do it that way.

And I was during that time, I decided to go back and get my NDA at the same time.

Oh.

And they're like, oh, Wisconsin's an awesome area.

You got to be able to do that.

But, you know, finding that group and working with them, they helped bring me along, get me prepared for Wisconsin.

It was Wisconsin.

And it has been my slowest of all my races because I did not prepare as much because of school.

But, you know, really understanding that and sharing that passion with a group of folks.

Right.

Just made the biggest difference overall to be able to kind of continue trying to say, hey, how do you make this Happen.

But it was that same community that we were able to be able to go and do Wisconsin with.

Yeah, I love this one.

I think my first two or three years of doing triathlon, I would roll up to a local sprint or Olympic.

I wasn't in a tri club.

I didn't know anybody else who was doing this.

And so my wife would come support me, so we would hang out.

But I think finally my third or fourth year in triathlon, I got plugged in with a tri club that was based out of a local triathlon store in my area.

And it really just brought my experience in the sport to life.

Right.

Like all of a sudden you're on Saturday group rides, you're at Wednesday track runs, you roll to races and there's, there's 20, 30, 40 people wearing the same kit as you.

And oh my gosh, it just really brings the whole experience to life.

So I love that that's, that, that, that you, that's a lesson you, you caught so early on in your race career as well.

A three year gap, Stephen, a three year gap from Wisconsin to Chattanooga.

Maybe you think you were finishing your NBA.

I'm not sure.

It was really, I mean, and again, it's about that time in between, but it was around setting bowls right and really being able to go do that now.

I really kind of transitioned at that point because it was Chattanooga and pre Chattanooga that I kind of set the goal to go to Tona.

And that's kind of the background was like, hey, how do I go do this?

And I got to give you the story and is like this group that I had been training with Wisconsin, there were two folks in my town that actually got lottery slots.

Now this is.

They used.

Ironman used to do lottery slots to go to Kona.

Two people that did not know each other got lottery slots the same year to be able to go to Kona.

And that like just started motivating, like, how do I go do that?

Well, that's when Kona ended up, or excuse me, where they got rid of the lottery slots.

But Kona became that bigger goal and having that goal in place to say, hey, how do I go do that?

And again, working really hard in between on 70.3, loving life you know, kind of realizing I can run pretty well, still need to work on my swim, but, you know, really trying to think about, like, how do you set those goals and really making them in manageable segments.

Ironman Chattanooga that year ended up being my fastest race out of all of them.

And even though it's a.

And officially at the time, ironman Chattanooga is 114.6, so there was two extra miles on the bike.

It is a fast swim.

But realizing that that was something that I was working really hard for, right?

And really kind of saying, hey, how do I move forward?

How do I set that into place?

You know, do I.

How do I go, qualify to be able to get to Kona?

And that was really what I kind of started, setting my eyes for my overall goals to go.

Yeah, and goals in this sport can be all sorts of things, right?

It can be to finally crack the top 10 in your age group, to land on the podium in your age group.

It can be qualifying for the worlds are similar.

My current goal in this sport is I really want to go under five hours at the half Ironman distance.

I. I went 5.

02 in Daytona a number of years ago.

I don't have that fitness now.

I'm trying to get that fitness back and I'll get there thanks to tr but, yeah, I want to go under five hours of the half Ironman distance before I think about going long again.

So anyway, yeah, there's a number of quality goals somebody can have, and I love that.

That's lesson number three here, right around.

The corner, just right next to you, Stephen.

It's so funny you say that.

Yesterday in our company chat, coach Ryan Tibble put out the post that it is officially sold out.

It is officially sold out.

A lot of triathletes in Texas, and I'm sure they knew that.

And so it sold out pretty quickly.

I was toying with the idea of doing it, and I just didn't jump in in time.

Did not jump in in time.

So I do have a 70.3.

Gotta come up and see me.

Okay.

Stephen.

The swim start is 21 minutes from my house.

So I was like, how could I have.

I have to go do this race.

It's so close to the house.

But I will be there cheering for sure.

That.

That's.

That's absolutely certain.

If they release more slots, I'll think about it.

But yeah, I'll be there for sure.

What was your takeaway from that?

That this is number four?

Yeah.

Pressure is a privilege.

Right.

Again, got to give you a little bit more background.

Yeah, I had a bike wreck about five weeks before Ironman Louisville.

I separated my shoulder, and I was pretty dinged up.

I mean, you.

I couldn't go outside.

I couldn't run.

And it was a lot of pressure kind of going into that race.

And, you know, I was really trying to think about, like, how do I get to that race and be able to compete?

And again, you know, I now have this goal, you know, to get to Kona, and I'm like, you know, I signed up and, yeah, still a little bit of conservative and cheap and didn't want to lose the money to be able to go.

You know, I really had to say, hey, how do I go and just have.

And reframe my mind and have just a race to get completed.

And so really kind of taking that pressure and saying, hey, how do I do it?

And really being able to be, you know, agile and saying, hey, how do I go in school train?

I mean, you know, I was actually sitting on the trainer with my arm in a sling and, you know, just making sure couldn't slim.

But, you know, it's one of those things to be able to kind of make happen.

But you know, what.

What you have to do is kind of reframe that pressure, right?

And saying, hey, what is it?

You know, what am I able to go do?

How am I able to kind of go and celebrate what I do have the ability to do?

You know, and we always say control what you can control.

You know, I couldn't control that.

I couldn't go swim, but I could control making sure that I was taking care of my arm.

What I did go do as I was, you know, went and did kick drills, you know, in the pool, you know, so you have to do those things and to be able to take that pressure and really realizing that you can still go and perform and really kind of take yourself to that next level.

Yeah.

And to put it in a different way, just.

Just the fact that we get to do this, the fact that we get to line up and do is.

Is a privilege.

Right?

It's.

It's.

We have the health, we have the body.

And in your circumstance here in Louisville, even though the circumstances were not ideal, even though your body was not 100%, the fact that you could go toe the line, knock out that race, enjoy the day.

Yeah, it's a privilege to get to do this.

You went international for a race.

What was your takeaway from Frankfurt?

Yeah, it was make it fun.

I mean, you know, again, my group has continued to grow, you know, all through these times.

And you can kind of see I'm starting to do a little bit more.

I went from 14 to 15 to 16 and you know, with that I had a group and we actually went as three other families.

With me, this was the first time my family got to go over to Europe.

I had been there for work personally, but you know, it's like, how do we make it fun, right?

And you know, this was a brand new country.

You know, I mean, Frankfurt is an amazing area, right.

And again, I think the Europeans do a great job.

And I highly recommend for those in the US if you don't, if you, you gotta go take the opportunity and go race overseas at least once.

I mean, it's just a very different experience.

I mean, the roads are 100% closed.

I mean, that was awesome.

You know, you're going through these beautiful towns, but you know, really kind of taking that as an opportunity.

Right.

And I think, you know, we have to remind ourselves in all the midst of the hard training and all the midst of it, the race, the actual race and the finish is about, you know, really being able to celebrate, right.

And you know, being able to take my family over to Europe, being able to go spend a little bit of time and we went from Frankfurt down to Paris afterwards on the train.

But you know, you got to make it fun, you know, I mean, you know, I.

It, you know, a lot of people talk about it's not just racing, but you know, going on these race stations, right?

And be able to have fun when you able to go do it.

But it's also kind of, it's not just race day and it's not just at the race.

You got to have fun also during the time while you're training.

And I think this was really good because we had a few people.

There was actually five of us racing all together there.

Again, it was only four, you know, three other families, but five of us were racing.

And it was just fun to be able to all be racing for or training for the same exact race.

And again, I think, you know that you'll see that as a theme overall.

You've got to find your community, right?

And I think that's what makes it fun.

And bringing your family along and having those abilities just really make the difference for all your races.

Yeah, I think of an age group athlete in particular, like like we're not going to the races and earning money.

Like this isn't our livelihood, right?

And I imagine for the folks that who it is their livelihood, it's probably fun for them cuz they're fast and they get to be fast.

But for, for the rest of us, like, like yeah, you can have goals, you can have aspirations, you can, you can have nerves going in the race day because you, you, you want a certain outcome.

But if in your day to day training or your race weekend or your race day, if it's not fun, if you're not enjoying it, like you've, you've kind of lost the plot, right?

And so I love that reminder here and I, I, it reminds me of that there's a Trident ambassador who's coached by Brandy Ramirez.

His name is Chris Tubbs.

Shout out to Chris Tubbs wherever he is.

I'm not sure if he's a podcast listener or not, but we follow each other on social media.

Anytime he posts about his triathlon training or triathlon racing on, on Instagram, he always puts the hashtag I love this S H I T and it's I, I love, I love that mindset, right?

I won't say the word on the podcast, but I love that mindset.

That, that just like, like man, I just, I just got done with a grueling workout that was, that was wild.

Try to have me do what?

Man, I love this bleep.

Like yeah, it should be fun.

Chris, good, good job, good job.

So Chris, Chris gets it.

What was your takeaway?

Yeah, the bigger picture.

Right?

The other thing is if you look at just the dates of everything that I'm doing, this is the first year of doing two races in the same year.

So I went from Frankfurt, turn back around, I went to North Carolina and you know, just realizing that yes, it's a beautiful area but you know, kind of remembering this bigger picture of where I started from to where I am now and then also realizing this bigger goals that you end up having.

So it's kind of a tie back of like, you know, really take the time and realizing it's not just the specific race that you're doing, but it's more about like what you've done and what you've been able to accomplish, the people that you're impacting.

I Mean, it's all of those things that I think kind of are the bigger picture of these races.

I mean, I'll just use Nice just as a quick example.

I mean, Kurt Madden, I work with Kurt Madden, saw him on in the cmg and you know, I was able to find other athletes that did not even know that we're going there.

And it's just like realizing that it's community.

Right.

And it's like an important part of, not just like your local community, but the broader community of the Ironman events and all of these other pieces.

But again, just, it's not myopic.

It's not just finishing your finish time.

It's not just being able to go do it.

It is that bigger picture of where you've come from and what you're doing.

And again, it goes back to the privilege that, you know that we have to be able to go do these races.

Yeah.

And I think expanding that picture, right.

And making race weekend, making the experience of being a triathlete about more than just the race itself like that, that's what helps people stay in the sport longer.

That's what, that's what brings people back again, again and again like yourself, because it just enriches the experience both on race weekend and day to day.

So really, really good one there from North Carolina and you're.

And for folks who I didn't mention this in the intro, Coach Stephen is based in North Carolina.

So easy for him to go do that one every single year, I imagine.

What was the lesson from that?

Yeah, I put this one as one race at a time.

And again, you got to look at the bigger picture a little bit here too.

I went from Ironman, Maryland to Florida and that those were going to be my closest races and they were at that time six weeks apart.

Maryland was in October, Florida was in November.

Sorry, it was five weeks.

But so I had to think about this very differently.

And it also ended up being my anniversary weekend while we were going to.

Yeah, so it was, we had a good anniversary, but, you know, it was just, you know, you got to make sure you're backing away and realizing not thinking so far out.

And again, you know, we just talked about the bigger picture.

You know, that's what we want to go do.

But you don't want to get ahead of yourself either.

Right.

You got to make sure that you're keeping what's right in front of you at that period of time.

And so, you know, this one Ironman, Maryland, if you haven't done it, I mean, it's.

It's a really good race.

It's a little out in kind of.

Kind of the edge of Maryland in the sense of where it is.

But it, you know, you got to make sure that you're continuing to focus on where you are, you know, being kind of being currently focused versus trying to think ahead.

And so.

And I'll give just a real quick example why.

I also thought it was like one race at a time.

I'm, you know, I show up race morning, you know, to be able to go check on my bike, to be able to go do it.

And this is the first time I ended up going into transition.

You know, I, you know, Iron Man 7 that my bike tires were flat, both of them, right.

And I'm pressing, and it brings that in.

And again, it's like dealing with not just the race, but, you know, what you have, what you can control, and to be able to go do that.

Like I said, the big.

The bigger picture here, why this was one race at a time, is like I was really stressing about doing these both back to back with Maryland and then Florida turning around.

And then it's like I had to make sure I was staying kind of in that sense again, just focused, right?

And not jumping ahead of myself and saying, hey, how do I go do this?

How do I make sure I can get to this next one?

I'm like, deal with what I have right now in front of me, or.

What was your lesson from that one?

Yeah, it was helping others.

And again, you know, you got to understand a little bit about the background is, you know, in the midst of doing Maryland, I was doing it, did it by myself.

I didn't really train with anybody for it.

And immediately when I came back, I was able to connect.

It was a.

It was a local tri store at the time.

They're not open.

They kind of connected me with a guy doing his first Ironman in Ironman, Florida, that same year.

And he lived in my community.

So it was just like, man, how do we go?

How do we connect with each other?

And one of the things is, I mean, he was a really good athlete, but being as first, you know, he didn't know what he was really doing.

And so in that sense, I think I.

That was the first time I started working closer with folks to be able to help, kind of mentor and to be able to go do that.

And, you know, I mean, yeah, he.

I mean, he was a really good swimmer, good cyclist, and, you know, he was struggling and it was one of the things that I gave up some of my race to be able to support him.

I helped him cross the finish line and to be able to go do that.

And again, I'm not saying you're always going to want to do that, but, you know, it really just makes a big difference, you know, I mean, are you going to stop when somebody's hurt on the side of the road?

Are you going to give them a tire?

You know, if they have a flat, you know, are you going to.

You know, I mean, I've given multiple times in a lot of races.

Salt, you know, when people are cramping, you know, but really trying to think about helping others.

And I tell you it does.

It helps me also.

Right.

As an.

When you're helping others, it takes the pain away from you.

Right.

And so I think there's.

There's an added bonus of not just helping those others, but also helping yourself to be able to go do that.

So it's really about how do you help lift people up, how do you help bring them along?

I mean, you know, one of the things I do on the runs all the time is I try to highlight and help motivate people.

Hey, good job when I'm passing them, you know, to be able to kind of say that because it really just helps them and you don't know that overall impact all the time.

And so I just think it's a great thing to remember.

You know, I mean, we always say thank volunteers, but, you know, help the other athletes while you're out there.

Yeah.

So it took you eight.

Eight Ironman events before you were officially the.

You referenced this as one of your favorite run courses.

What was your lesson from Ironman Texas?

Yeah.

Hard work required.

Right.

Is like there's no shortcuts in the sport.

Texas is great, but the time of the year, it's hard, you know, depending on where you live.

I mean, you end up having to really kind of think about how are you going to train and be ready to go.

And it really tested my discipline.

I mean, I had to spend a lot of time, I'm a trainer getting ready for Texas.

You know, when you're doing six plus hours on the trainer for your long rides, it even hurts more.

Right.

And so it really takes a lot of hard work to be able to kind of continue thinking about that.

Also with Texas, I mean, you can get, you know, a lot of wind out on the party to.

You end up being pretty hot.

Right.

You know, and you just got to realize that every race, right, it is hard and you got to go into it in that mindset and being prepared.

Right.

Because it really is right.

I mean, going through the finish line, it's about a reflection of your consistent work that you're putting in right when no one is watching.

And that's the hard part.

You got to do the work, no one else can do it for you.

And it really takes the other amount of time.

Yeah.

Ironman number nine doesn't care that you finished Ironman one through eight, right.

Like it's a new race, it's a new day and you got to go earn it just the same.

And it's, it's easy to take that for granted.

I've taken it for granted at shorter events.

I'll roll up to a local sprint or a local Olympic thinking, oh, it's just a local sprint, local Olympic.

And then it ends up kicking my butt because I just didn't take it seriously enough.

Right.

And Ironman especially, you've got to do the work for every single one that you do.

So very, very, very good lesson here.

Yeah, challenges happen, right?

I mean, I think you, you got to make sure as an athlete that you're preparing.

I face two flat tires right.

On the actual bike.

And because the swim was canceled at Chattanooga, which I love the swim and I wish they wouldn't had canceled it, but because the swim was canceled, I still ended up going out early.

I ended up having almost like a two hour wait to get tech support out there.

And, and again, for me it's like, how do you pivot, you know, when you're two hours behind?

And I mean, I'm like worrying about getting to the cutoff time and you know, you're always looking at your watch, okay, am I doing it?

And you know, it's always based on when you start and all these other pieces.

And I come running into the.

Or running or not running, but riding into the bike finish and I'm yelling at my wife, did I make cut off?

Did I make cut off?

You know, because I did not want to run.

Yeah.

The full 26.2 miles and not.

And get a DNF, right.

That was not what I wanted because I'm working towards legacy at this point and I like, I just needed a complete.

And so I did make it, was able to get it completed barely Made.

It was like, like four minute cut before cutoff to be able to have it.

And.

But it was, it was a challenging race and because I pushed, ended up being so hard on the bike to try to make up time that, you know, it really punished me on the run.

And so again, challenges happen.

You got to be prepared for them.

Whether you drop water bottles, whether you have flat tires.

You gotta really think about that as an athlete, right.

And prepare in advance.

And that really kind of taught me.

And it goes into this mindset aspect of, like, how do you prepare?

How do you visualize, how do you do those different pieces?

Because understanding that and knowing that they happen and you can't control them, you know, you need to make sure that you're trying to put yourself in a position to control what you can control.

Yeah.

Jeff Booer, CEO, founder of tri.he, he always puts it this way.

Like, on race day, expect three things to go wrong.

And if they don't, great, they don't.

But when they do, instead of getting frustrated about it or instead of saying, oh, I just got a flat tire and I gotta wait, it's like, well, okay, there's thing number one.

I knew it was gonna come.

I didn't know it was gonna be, but I knew it was gonna come.

And it just, it just, it just changes your mindset about it, right?

It does.

First time there.

I've.

I haven't been there yet.

I've heard great things about the swim there.

In particular, what was your takeaway from Lake Placid?

Yeah, I mean, Lake Placid was enjoy the race.

I mean, you know, you know, you're.

I'm kind of going through, you can see kind of.

I'm building kind of this whole, you know, repertoire of all the different races.

And I'm like, I haven't done Placid yet.

Let me go and enjoy it.

Right.

And that's one of the iconic races to be able to go do that, you know, but again, I'm trying to work towards Kona also and knowing that Lake Placid was a pretty challenging race, even though very iconic, it's like, you know, how do you go and prepare to be able to go do that?

And so, you know, I had the position because again, you got to look a little bit at what I had already registered for.

I got Montre Blanc.

That's actually two weeks after Lake Placid that year.

And so again, you know, I really needed to kind of position, okay, where do I want to race versus where do I want to kind of maybe set back just a little bit.

But you know, this is about being present again in the moment and enjoying that area.

I mean, Lake Plass is beautiful place and highly recommend to go if you have an opportunity, you know, whether racing or not, but it's a site, you know, go and enjoy that area and realizing that, hey, you got to make sure you're able to do it.

And again, it's funny because, you know, I talked about my two girls, but this was a great opportunity and I just love all the photos of my girls to be able to add all the races.

And you know, we actually, you know, spent the time there.

You know, they were able to meet Mike Riley.

You know, he had his book out at that point and we got the book signed.

You know, just being able to go in and do those things right, and having the time with the family was just also really enjoying for that specific race that year.

Your next race is.

Is also one that, that I've heard is Fairly Hilly.

What was your lesson from Tremblant?

How different is Tremblant from like Placid?

They're kind of in the same, same vibe, I think.

Yeah, they.

They really were.

I mean, the, the lesson was ability to push through, right?

Like I said, it was, you know, three weeks apart to be able to go and, and to do those.

But I mean, beautiful area.

I mean, I hate that they don't have the full and Montre Blanc anymore.

It's only the 70.3.

Because honestly that if I was to pick a race to say, you gotta go do, that would be one, right?

I mean, go to huge endorsement.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Really, really just an amazing area and.

But, you know, the ability to push through, I mean, realizing I had just come off a Placid, you know, I was actually being coached, you know, kind of getting kind of feedback via proe at the time for, for Lake Placid.

And you know, I was like, okay, how do I reconfidence, you know, And I had to really learn that whole aspect of recovering to be able to turn right back around.

And it was just like, you know, pushing through and you know, I ended up feeling having a really good race, but I.

My body shut down on the run, right?

And you know, I had to figure out how to be, you know, look at closely and say, hey, how do I push through this, right?

And push through that pain, you know, overall, because I had to dig Deep.

And that was probably again, the run in that course.

I just remember specifically because it hurts so bad to be able to go and finish the second half of that.

And.

But also I also remember very.

It was amazing finish.

Right.

Mike Riley was there also.

Just.

Just an amazing finish and.

But just great opportunity in Montre Blanc.

But I think you got it as an athlete, really determine how deep can you go, how can you continue forward.

I mean, we talk about resilience with nice this year, but, you know, that ability to push through is hard, and I think you got to make sure you're able to do it.

And you got to train hard too.

Right.

I mean, if you think you're going to only do it on race day, you're probably not.

And I think that becomes an important part to kind of push through.

Yeah.

It's amazing how it's so funny just what moments from a course, what parts of a course stick out in your memory ten years later, five years later.

And so just you recalling the pain you were in on that run course.

Yeah.

It made an impression on you for sure.

It sounds like.

So Ironman Tulsa, which I think this is where I first met you.

What was your takeaway?

Yeah, by the way, I remember you yelling after coming off the bike in Tulsa.

Right.

To be able to go do that.

I mean, I remember going into the Ironman Village and there was nothing.

And you're wearing masks all the time.

But just, you know, really to kind of realizing that delays happen and whether it's, you know, I mean, Covid was a big delay.

I mean, I went from, you know, kind of.

So.

And I. I got to back up a little bit because Montre Blanc ended up being my 12th race for legacy.

That was the other thing that was important for that.

And so I had already submitted my Legacy slot to be able to go to Kona, and I had to.

So then you had.

You have to do an Ironman every single year to stay eligible.

Yeah, that's correct.

To be able to go to Kona.

So I gotta do a race.

I gotta at least register for it.

And Kona, by the way, ended up getting delayed another year because of Hawaii was a little bit more restricted.

And so I had to go do a race.

I had to go race Tulsa.

And this was the first year for Tulsa.

Only my oldest daughter went with me with Tulsa.

But it was like, you know, how do you continue doing that and realizing that delays happen and things are.

It goes back to controlling what you can control, right?

And realizing that, you know, we all had those challenges.

Everybody is in the same position, you know, but you have to adapt, right?

And that becomes the big part for all of us to kind of take into consideration, right?

Because, you know, we got to be flexible.

We got to be patient.

We got to make sure that we're continuing to kind of accept some of those things, you know, whether it's, you know, you know, again, delay in races or something changes or they cancel the swim, right?

I mean, all those different people.

And I think that's just important for us as athletes, right?

To continue trying to think about and making sure that we take into consideration.

And we do.

I think we have seven or eight left.

We're going to try to blitz through these to finish the list.

Great takeaways from all these.

Yeah.

I mean, so one of the dirty secrets, right, is Iron man says, hey, you got to do 12 on Legacy, but then you got to sign up, really, for another one.

And so, you know, this one, Des Moines was no One More, right?

And, you know, it's just like, you know, I had to make sure that even though I was like, had to go, had Kona already on the books, you know, what does that look like?

You know, and it just made a big difference because, you know, I had to be able to take that next step.

And I think the value for us as athletes, it's like, you know, can you go one more?

And, you know, I. I kind of use bpn.

If you're familiar with bpn.

Bear performance, nutrition.

You know, he's like, go one more.

Right?

And that whole concept of going one more.

And I think that's, you know, we got to think about it, like, one more stroke, one more step, one more, you know, pedal stroke, in a sense.

And so, you know, that really has to help us to be able to kind of get through.

And I think it's a good mantra, right?

Geek in, right?

And realizing that you can continue to go further than what your mind Actually is telling you.

And I think that's an important part.

We've talked in the podcast before, physiologically, in your workouts, if you have five intervals of zone five or six, you know, four intervals at zone four, like that last interval, particularly the last few minutes of that last interval is where the biggest physiological adaptations take place.

Go one more.

Go one more minute, one more interval.

See the workout through to the finish line.

Great mantra for our sport for sure.

Steven.

I saw you there as well.

What was your takeaway from finally making it to Kona?

Yeah, and again, I mean, it was, you know, the finish line doesn't mean finish.

Right.

And that's, you know, and you really have to think about that.

You know, yes, we hit a finish line, but that really is just the close of the chapter of the book.

I mean, and, you know, Kona no doubt was a very, very big goal for me, but, you know, as I built this up, it came out lifestyle now.

And that's really the difference.

That for me, it's like, okay, what.

What do I want to go do next?

How do I go do that?

And this is where, you know, you asked the question earlier about coaching, and I was like, okay, this is the bigger view for me, saying, hey, how do I go help the next area?

How do I go and do that?

I mean, I actually am still working to try to be a guide.

I want to be a guide to be able to help people.

And it's like realizing that, yes, Kona was there, but that's just that a stopping point for you to go to that next step.

And that's really what it means, right?

It's not just a finish line.

You're not finished.

Know, you can continue as we talked about, go one more.

You can continue to be able to do that.

You combine two races here on your list.

Why are these combined in your notes?

And what was your takeaway?

Yeah, so the.

The theme was adapt and overcome.

And that was part of the reason I combined them.

So I decided to go back to Texas again and I had a bike wreck.

It was my very first DNF in Texas out of all my races at this point.

And I tell you, it was hard.

You know, I was on the hardy toll roll and there's expansion gaps in the.

In the toll road.

And my.

My tire dropped into the expansion gap.

It threw me over.

I hit my head I was bleeding so bad from that, not so bad, but I was bleeding from the head.

And you know, they said, hey, we can't let you continue.

Which was fine, you know, and it's just, you know, but I, you know, wanted to be able to go do that, but, you know, I had to figure out what, what do I do?

How do I continue to adapt and overcome.

And again, that's one of the things with as a Marine that's like, hey, how do you adapt and overcome to be able to go accomplish your mission?

Well, one of the missions was, is like, we knew Nice was coming around and I'm like, hey, I really want to go to Nice.

And one of my buddies that was racing with me, you know, qualified for Nice in Texas.

And so I basically got, you know, bandaged up, you know, got everything set apart and went right back and then jumped.

Right.

And like the day after to Coeur d' Alene to be able to go do that.

And if you haven't been to Coeur d', Alene, I mean, you know, again, good training for these for sure because of the climbing, but, you know, it really was, it was unexpectedly hot and for me a little more hilly than I expected also.

Right.

So, you know, I had to kind of adjust, you know, for what that plan ended up being.

But so that whole year for 23 was adapt and overcome.

Yeah, because how do I go and shift from, you know, having something that I didn't complete DNF for the very first time, mentally, it was hard.

How do I overcome that and push myself to that next level?

But, you know, this is where as athletes we gotta take that step.

Right.

Don't be fearful of it, you know, realizing that a outcome does not define you.

Right.

And so that's the important part for us to be able to say how, how do we overcome some of those outcomes and we're all going to have them.

And I think that's one of the realities that is out of all these races, you're going to have good races, you're going to have bad races, and I think you can overcome all of those other pieces.

Yeah, I absolutely love it.

If you're in this sport long enough, maybe if you're in this sport for a race or two, you will encounter some obstacles, you will have some things go wrong.

And yeah, you got to press on.

Right.

You gotta, you gotta adapt and overcome.

Absolutely love it.

You did qualify and you went.

What was your takeaway from going to France and racing on the French Riviera.

Yeah, celebrate and, you know, celebrate the outcome.

You know, I mean, you know, again, I had really tough, you know, with Texas and Portland, and I was just ecstatic to be able to be able to go to Nice for the very first time, you know, get another world championship.

This was the first year of Nice, so no one really knew what to expect.

But, you know, again, I went with a buddy that also qualified in Texas.

You know, was good for our family, but really just took the time.

Right.

I mean, you know, Kona was like, no doubt inspiring to be able to go and do, but Nice was different.

Right.

And again, being able to go overseas, you know, understanding the history of Nice and with triathlon, I mean, it was just something to be able to go celebrate.

And I think, you know, one of the things that I would give as feedback for athletes in general, it's like, you know, celebrating your outcome.

Maybe it's not perfect, but you still got to celebrate it.

Right?

And realizing that, you know, and, you know, there's a quote, you know, that I ended up saying.

It's like, you know, it's not just about what you've done for the outcome, but did you do it well?

Right.

And, you know, I did it well.

I was happy with it, you know, and being happy with it yourself and acknowledging all the work that you end up putting in is really the important part.

And I think sometimes we forget that.

Right.

As all the stuff that happens.

And so I think that's just something you want to do.

The other thing that's kind of behind this is, you know, being able to celebrate with my family.

And, you know, it was really good to be able to do that again.

And it was just, again, great experience overall.

Coach McKeely Jones, regular on the podcast for people who don't recognize the name.

She is a Ironman world champion, Olympic silver medalist in her pro career.

Now coaches through Giddy Up Racing, powered by Tridot.

And I've heard McKeely a number of times say to athletes, celebrate the race you had, not the race you wish you had.

Exactly.

And it's that same notion, like, you can wish it went a certain way, and sometimes it's going to go the way you want, Sometimes you're going to nail it, but sometimes you're not.

And, okay, well, you had the race you had, and you got to the finish line, you did the best you could with the way things went down.

And every outcome deserves to be celebrated because, again, it's a privilege to be out there.

So I love that McKeely says that.

The other thing, Steven, I was thinking as you were talking and I know you've been at these Ironman events a lot of times we have tried out coaches there and if there's trot coaches on site for an Ironman, often there's a shakeout run led by Tridot.

And a number of times where I've been at these shakeout runs.

A question that we go around and ask the athletes is, what Ironman is this for you?

Is this Ironman 1 or Ironman 20?

And it's so funny because you have a group of 40, 50 athletes circled up just, just very quickly, what's your name?

Where are you from?

What number Ironman is this?

And then we go for a run and people really clap really hard for people who say it's their first Ironman that get.

That gets big applause to if someone says it's their third, fourth, fifth, sixth, it's kind of like a polite golf clap.

And when you get athletes saying, oh, it's number 10, number 20, number 15, you get into those high numbers and people clap really hard for those.

And it always strikes me that no one really claps hard for the people that it's their third, their seventh, their sixth.

And it takes me back to like that one.

Every Ironman finish, whether it's.

Even if it's those middle numbers, it's worth celebrating.

Like you win out, you accomplish something.

Because like we said before, like no finish line is guaranteed.

You have to go out there and earn every single one of them.

And whether you do it for the fifth time or you're doing it for the 12th time and legacying it like it's, it's worth celebrating.

So that, that's the other thing I thought about here that I wanted to say.

I'm rambling.

We.

We need to get through these last couple.

You went back to Placid, Talk about it.

Yeah, it was be with friends.

I mean this was the 25th year for Lake Placid, so it was a pretty big deal for those that maybe were just getting into the sport.

Mike Riley had already retired.

He did go back to Lake Placid and do an announcement.

Announcing.

And so I had a couple of friends that were there.

And so that was just really a highlight, right, to be able to bring them along, share that experience.

Neither one of them had been called by Mike Riley before, so know, pump that up.

And so it was just really the ability to train Together and race together was just, you know, again, just continuing to build that bond.

Right.

That kind of last beyond that, that finish line.

So again, just awesome to be able to go back to Lake Pl and celebrate the 25th year and also get called in one more time by Mike Riley.

Yeah, he.

He loves that race.

He loves that race.

And yeah, that's.

That's one I'm sure we'll see him turn up for again and again.

Ironman Ottawa.

Ironman Ottawa.

Brand new race in Canada this year.

Right.

I think.

First.

First.

Yeah.

What was your takeaway from Ottawa?

Yeah, it was train and help others.

I mean, you know, so I officially started coaching right at the beginning of this year and so, you know, I've started bringing a few people on that I'm continuing to coach and I had a coached athlete that was there with me and he trains in my area so we did a lot of training together.

He ended up having a PR on his race.

So, you know, you know, leveraging try that where he wasn't before, kind of taking him to that next level, but really trying to be able to go out there and help.

Right.

And so that just again becomes very important for me to be able to kind of be with community, to be able to continue to do that.

And so Ottawa was just one of those.

But it was more around an athlete that was with me going to Ottawa.

Yeah, no suit.

Super cool.

I know a number of coaches that will try to find the races where they have a number of athletes racing and that's how they pick their races.

Right.

Because it does really enrich the experience for our coaches.

They get to see their athletes racing like that.

Okay, number 20 on the list.

We made it to the end.

And coach Steven, bang up job to you.

Huge kudos for really keeping these concise but rich in detail, rich in stories, rich in learning opportunity for our listeners.

Yeah, and it goes to the theme that Nice had this year or the Ironman had this year for resilience.

Right.

And you know, no matter what race that you've done, what race that you're doing, you know it's going to challenge you.

And I think it becomes really important that, you know, we got to continue to build resilience ourselves as athletes.

And it took a lot of resilience.

I mean, I'll be very honest, I almost quit after the swim.

Right.

I mean it was shivering that bad.

You know, my wife Looked over at me and there's a lot of gates and knees because of security.

And she looked over and was like, I'm surprised you were able to even get your bike because I was shivering so bad and it was hard, right?

And you know, but realizing, and it goes back to the whole aspect of understanding your why, understanding the community and the impacts that you end up having, but really kind of pushing yourself, right, and realizing that resilience is something you got to train and you got to continue to go and push.

And so I think, you know, it really was awesome to be able to kind of be at Nice, really as my 20th Ironman.

And yes, the US was the biggest.

But being able to be there, you know, I mean, as you're, you know, I'm standing the line and you're talking to all these other athletes about where they've come from.

And you know, and it is, I mean, I look at the 20th, really school is just a stepping stone, right?

And it's both the resilience of completing all the races to the resilience of just, you know, completing that specific race.

And, and it's important, right?

Understanding all these, you know, what I would call lessons, but just insights that I can bring, you know, from all these different races that I've been up and a half.

So, Coach Stephen, last question for our main set.

Before you answer, an audience question on the cooldown, what's going to be Ironman.

Number 21, I am thinking right now for Jacksonville, Florida, that is probably 21.

So still kind of working through it.

I have a buddy, a couple of buddies racing Chattanooga and next weekend and so looking at maybe Florida for next year.

Excuse me.

Like I said, Jacksonville, Florida, next year, which is early in the race.

That's kind of one that's out there.

Still gotta push it across with my wife too, make sure that she's okay.

So I may get in trouble here now, but that's okay.

All right, onto the cool down of the show where Coach Steven is going to answer an audience question and then we are done for the day.

And today's question, I pulled this from the Iron Trident Facebook group.

Michelle asked this question, how to train for hills.

When you don't have any hills around you, what do you do?

Do you use.

With.

Do you use Ruby, she, she expands saying, I'm decent on the bike, but hills are where I really lose steam.

I am very much the same way as Michelle, so I totally get this question.

It is a little tricky.

So, Stephen, you're based in North Carolina.

There's definitely some hills around you, but nothing like Nice France.

Definitely.

You've definitely.

I picked this one for you because on your list you have some pretty hilly races.

So what would you say to athlete Michelle here?

Yeah, I think there's three areas that I would recommend for if you don't have hills to build and do it.

But I would would remind you, power is power.

It doesn't matter if it's flat or if it's on a hill.

But really there's still this mindset that you got to go practice on some hills.

And I do recommend that.

And the smart trainer really is a good opportunity.

I used Ruvi specifically getting prepped for Nice.

All I did was use it number one visually so I could see the actual course.

So that was very helpful.

So really do recommend using a smart trainer.

I personally like Ruzi because it has very good course course.

Not just profiles, but also visuals to be able to do it.

Since you're on Tridot, you hopefully should see some of these.

But big gear workouts, right?

That is really, really good.

Right?

Big gear power builder, Power intervals.

Exactly.

You know, focus on that low cadence.

Right.

And high torque intervals.

You know, that really becomes very important.

You know, I think that's really big and I think the big gear workout, which goes to my number three is really work on your strength training off the bike because that makes a big importance to be able to go do that.

You know, focus on those.

And if you're using tri dot use, you know, do those lunges and those squats and those step ups, you know, I think make a very, very big difference as you get prepared for hills.

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