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Spirituality & Social Justice with Bishop Bob Ihloff
Episode 13 • 3rd September 2023 • Listening for Clues • On the Journey with Jon & Lauren
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Spirituality & Social Justice with Bishop Bob Ihloff

We are honored to have the Rt. Reverend Robert W. Ihloff, recently retired after serving 28 years as a bishop of the Episcopal Church. Bob speaks about how his spirituality has inspired and maintained his decades-long passion for social justice issues.

Highlights:

00:00 Spirituality & Social Justice with Bishop Bob Ihloff

00:18 Introduction

01:31 Social Justice & Spirituality: The Common Thread of Bishop Bob's Ordained LIfe

03:44 Challenges of Prophetic Preaching

07:16 Differences in Being a Parish Priest and Diocesan Bishop

09:44 What has surprised you?

11:56 How has spiritual direction shaped your ministry?

14:46 Being a Spiritual Director Again

17:30 The Future of Christianity

21:15 How to Contact Bishop Bob

21:54 Thanks

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Bishop Bob's Personal eMail address: rwihloff@gmail.com

Listening for Clues is pleased to present our new series, "Good News!" featuring weekly conversations with people who are making a difference, large or small. We want everyone to know what they are doing, why they are doing it, and how. So, our listeners and viewers can experience the good news and go out and make a difference themselves.

Listening for Clues invites you into conversations that discover clues, rather than solutions to life’s problems. Join the journey with Jon Shematek and Lauren Welch, Episcopal deacons, as we explore whatever lies ahead. Check our website Listening for Clues.

© 2023 Listening for Clues

Transcripts

Speaker:

Hello

Jon:

welcome to Good News being brought to you by Listening for Clues.

Lauren:

We are Lauren Welch and Jon Shematek, deacons in the

Lauren:

Episcopal Diocese of Maryland.

Jon:

We sure are ,today we have a very special guest,

Jon:

the Right Reverend Robert W.

Jon:

Ihloff, who is a bishop in the Episcopal

Jon:

Church.

Jon:

Bob served 28 years as a parish priest in three dioceses, followed

Jon:

by 28 years as a Bishop of Maryland.

Jon:

He was formerly a member of the House of Bishops Theology Committee, President

Jon:

of Province 3, a trustee of the Virginia Theological Seminary, and of the

Jon:

national Board of Episcopal Schools.

Jon:

He's currently offering spiritual direction.

Jon:

Bob has been married for 57 years to the amazing Nancy V.

Jon:

Ihloff.

Jon:

They have two children, six grandchildren, and one great granddaughter.

Jon:

Nancy and Bob live in Baltimore, Maryland.

Jon:

Welcome, Bob.

Jon:

It's good to have you today.

Bob:

Thank you.

Bob:

It's very nice to be here with you, both of you, who I admire

Bob:

greatly and think the world of.

Bob:

So thank you for inviting me.

Lauren:

So, Bob, to begin with, you have been in ordained ministry for 56 years.

Lauren:

Share with us what the thread through those years has been.

Bob:

The thread for me, at least, has been the interface of

Bob:

social justice and spirituality.

Bob:

This started very early in me.

Bob:

I became very involved in the civil rights movement when I was in college in the

Bob:

60s and seminary also in the 60s, and I fortunately went to Episcopal Divinity

Bob:

School in Cambridge, Massachusetts, which was at the time the only seminaries

Bob:

that really encouraged students to get involved in the social issues of the day,

Bob:

and As I studied scripture and immersed myself in the Civil Rights Movement,

Bob:

I became more and more convinced that Jesus was, among other things, very

Bob:

interested in justice and civil rights.

Bob:

And I also became aware that there were people in the Civil Rights

Bob:

Movement who were burning out.

Bob:

Because they were constantly giving of themselves, but they weren't

Bob:

getting spiritually replenished in what was an arduous and

Bob:

long, and still going on, fight.

Bob:

And so I began even as a seminarian to turn my attention to how to remain

Bob:

spiritually alive and be grounded in spirit so that I would have the energy

Bob:

to be involved in social justice and...

Bob:

That has been a thread that I have carried through to the present day,

Bob:

including my interest in providing spiritual direction for folks.

Bob:

I have been in spiritual direction myself for years, and part

Bob:

of that has been a necessity.

Bob:

If you're going to also be involved in the issues of the day, you need to

Bob:

have a spiritual grounding, so that you don't run out of energy and burnout.

Bob:

Or lose touch with why you're doing this to begin with.

Jon:

Well, having heard a number of your sermons over the years, I, I would say

Jon:

you have been extraordinarily faithful to, to that whole precept of the

Jon:

thinking of the Jesus movement as being a social justice definitely been a very

Jon:

strong kind of a prophetic preacher.

Jon:

I wonder, has that.

Jon:

At times presented any difficulties?

Bob:

Yes, of course.

Bob:

But I, over the years have developed a pretty thick skin.

Bob:

It was very helpful to me that the first rector I worked with.

Bob:

in New Britain, Connecticut, who was also deeply involved in social justice . One

Bob:

of the things he mentioned to me early on in my ministry was, it's important

Bob:

to decide who you want as your enemies, probably as important as it is who

Bob:

you want as your friends, because you're not going to please everybody.

Bob:

And that hasn't meant that I have thrown caution to the wind or been for the most

Bob:

part in my ministry, purposely difficult with people with whom I disagree.

Bob:

I actually invite disagreement and I often.

Bob:

inform people who have a different points of view that I value hearing their

Bob:

points of view because it stretches me.

Bob:

It gets me to be more concrete in what my own beliefs are, but I also think that's

Bob:

how we grow as we challenge each other.

Bob:

And so I've sought.

Bob:

to be a challenger in a good sense of trying to work with people, because

Bob:

I do think that diversity is really important, and people paying attention

Bob:

to other Christians, especially other Christians, but other people's

Bob:

points of view are very important.

Bob:

Over the years I've had any number of people who have taken issue.

Bob:

Because I do tend to foster a prophetic voice.

Bob:

Not everyone is given that voice.

Bob:

I feel like that has been something that God prompts me in.

Bob:

And I try to not be political in utilizing that voice.

Bob:

I mean, the irony is we now live in an age where almost anything you say is likely to

Bob:

be perceived as political by someone else so I try to be very clear that I'm coming

Bob:

to this from my own Christian belief.

Bob:

Jesus spent a disproportionate amount of his time with the poor,

Bob:

the marginalized the disadvantaged.

Bob:

And that in itself, I think, causes us to take seriously that that's an important

Bob:

part of what God is interested in.

Bob:

And part of living into the kingdom of God, which is the bringing together of all

Bob:

people and creating even playing fields and justice is working among those who are

Bob:

particularly disadvantaged to give them a leg up and to enable them to be rich

Bob:

parts of the dialogue that needs to go on.

Bob:

When I was first ordained I learned that it was also important

Bob:

to establish my credibility as a dependable and caring pastor.

Bob:

And so in parishes, as well as in the Diocese of Maryland, I have always.

Bob:

Making, trying to make it very clear and throughout my ministry, making it clear to

Bob:

people that I really do care about them.

Jon:

Bob, I wonder if I could follow up just a little bit on this, because

Jon:

you raised a curiosity for me just now, and thinking about, you had sort of an

Jon:

equal number of many years as a in parish ministry and in diocesan wide ministry.

Jon:

I just wonder how did that differ in those two roles in terms of getting

Jon:

the social justice message out?

Bob:

The roles are quite different, although I felt that many of the

Bob:

things that I did as a parish priest prepared me to be a bishop.

Bob:

The two roles are quite different, and that was why I was reticent

Bob:

about being considered as a bishop.

Bob:

I, I never applied to be a bishop anywhere, and my name spun out of the

Bob:

computer in New York, which houses all of the resumes of clergy throughout the

Bob:

country, to be Bishop of Maryland, and It was not a job I would have ever sought,

Bob:

but as I read the profile, I decided they were looking for somebody who had many of

Bob:

the same experiences and commitments that I had, and I felt that I couldn't in good

Bob:

conscience just say, no, this isn't right.

Bob:

Thank you.

Bob:

This isn't the will of God, I'm going to stay a parish priest.

Bob:

But quite frankly, I was very worried when I was elected that

Bob:

I wouldn't enjoy being a bishop.

Bob:

And it has turned out that I can't say I like being a bishop more

Bob:

than a parish priest, but I have liked them equally and in different

Bob:

ways, and for different reasons.

Bob:

But the commonality has been that in both cases, these gave me wonderful

Bob:

opportunities to really try to Preach the gospel in a variety of different places

Bob:

and to learn from different people.

Bob:

One of the things that interested me most about Maryland is that as

Bob:

one of our former governors said, Maryland is America in miniature.

Bob:

And I think that's true.

Bob:

It includes one of the great cities of the world, Baltimore.

Bob:

It includes white collar cities like Frederick and Annapolis, and

Bob:

blue collar cities like Hagerstown.

Bob:

And Cumberland, and lots of suburban areas, and lots of rural areas still.

Bob:

And, of course, we include two counties in Appalachia allegheny County, and

Bob:

Garrett County in recent years Bishop Sutton asked me if I would take particular

Bob:

responsibility for our Appalachian region.

Bob:

And I have loved that.

Lauren:

So Bob, with all that you've done, the challenges and the prophetic

Lauren:

words that you have spoken what has surprised you in your ministry?

Bob:

For my whole adult life, I have been pleasantly surprised at

Bob:

where I find the Holy Spirit and in whom I find the Holy Spirit.

Bob:

As a young priest, I often went off to hospital situations or in to visit

Bob:

someone at home with a great deal of anxiety about what would I say, what

Bob:

would I do, how would I minister to them.

Bob:

Rapidly, it became aware, I became aware that ministry is always a two way street.

Bob:

That I may go to do something in relationship to someone, but invariably

Bob:

they minister to me in a very deep way.

Bob:

As anyone who does hospital ministry knows, there are situations where I

Bob:

have felt I was standing on holy ground.

Bob:

It was almost as if, in a Genesis kind of sense, I should remove my shoes

Bob:

because the ground was so holy by the witness that the person who was dying

Bob:

or was extremely ill was making and the ways in which that enhanced my life.

Bob:

So, God constantly does surprise me, although now I expect to be surprised.

Bob:

It used to be a full surprise when I was younger.

Bob:

I am not surprised particularly, but it always takes me off guard.

Bob:

God is in situations...

Bob:

where I haven't expected God to be profoundly.

Bob:

And anyone who relates to people, I think, and does so from a religious

Bob:

perspective, has those experiences.

Bob:

They are wonderful experiences.

Bob:

They, they give us a lot of nourishment and enable us to

Bob:

go on through tough situations.

Bob:

Because the relationship creates a space where the Holy Spirit is really

Bob:

at work, and that is a very, very humbling and, and uplifting experience

Jon:

I think the the relationship word has popped out in all of these

Jon:

good news conversations that we're having, because I think it really is.

Jon:

underpinning of what our spiritual life is about relating with

Jon:

divinity and with one another.

Jon:

And I was just wondering a little bit more, you'd mentioned earlier about

Jon:

how spiritual direction has been a part of your life just wondering if

Jon:

you could expand a little bit more on the role of spiritual direction in

Jon:

informing your decisions forming your ministry, informing that, keeping that

Jon:

passionate fire alive that you have.

Bob:

You're right, Jon, that relationship is at the very heart of this.

Bob:

And I think relationship is directly related to the concept of incarnation.

Bob:

The unique feature of Christianity...

Bob:

is the belief that God so loves the created world and particularly human

Bob:

beings who have been created that God comes into our experience in the

Bob:

person of Jesus, born and raised as a human being with all of the faults

Bob:

and foibles that human beings are subject to in a world in which God

Bob:

gives up power to become a servant.

Bob:

This is a profound statement.

Bob:

of God's love for us and calls us into relationship.

Bob:

I've often surprised confirmation classes before I confirm members by

Bob:

saying, you know, it's not possible to be a Christian by yourself.

Bob:

I mean, It is never just me and Jesus.

Bob:

Important as a relationship with Jesus is, it is always in a community, it is

Bob:

always a brotherhood and sisterhood, a relational experience that we both

Bob:

experience God and we also grow into being better persons with others.

Bob:

And so spiritual direction comes right out of that.

Bob:

And I, am very, very interested in relationships.

Bob:

And when I moved to the Boston area, took two years of intensive study

Bob:

with the Boston Gestalt Institute, thinking that God might be calling me

Bob:

to be a pastoral counselor, which is something I also love but at the end

Bob:

of the training, I decided that no, I preferred to remain a generalist

Bob:

because I, I couldn't say that I loved.

Bob:

counseling more than I love preaching or teaching or Bible

Bob:

study or various other things that parish ministry involved me in.

Bob:

The next thing I did in that same period in the 1980s was to enter a

Bob:

Doctor of Ministry program and that was in the area of spiritual direction.

Bob:

Now that I'm retired, I can go back to doing this, and it is a very

Bob:

privileged thing to kind of walk the spiritual journey with other people.

Bob:

And I find it very enlivening for myself, but I think it's also possible

Bob:

that through my own experiences, people will find their spiritual journeys.

Bob:

And when I say spiritual journeys, I don't mean that those journeys

Bob:

are somehow isolated in some esoteric way from our regular lives.

Bob:

We walk our spiritual journeys in the context of living day to day,

Bob:

in the context of what we do and how we behave and how we treat people.

Bob:

What causes we...

Bob:

Support, how we spend our money the list is almost endless of how the

Bob:

spirit can inform us about how to live.

Bob:

And so spiritual direction is an opportunity when it's done one on one

Bob:

for a person to meet with the director.

Bob:

I don't like the name director because it implies something that

Bob:

isn't true in spiritual direction.

Bob:

The direction comes from the Holy Spirit.

Bob:

If we're being honest.

Bob:

And so my job as the spiritual director is try to listen carefully to the directee.

Bob:

and hear where the spirit is either calling to that person or perhaps

Bob:

calling to me through my hearing of what the person is saying.

Bob:

So it is not particularly directional in that I don't tell people what to do.

Bob:

I instead it's my job to come up with important questions where they hopefully

Bob:

can have an aha from within themselves.

Bob:

Probably most of the answers any of us need to know about life are inside of

Bob:

us, at least if we've lived for a few years I currently do not have anyone who

Bob:

is non Christian, but I would, I would offer that because I can be sensitive to

Bob:

person who, the person would pretty much have to have a, a religious connection

Bob:

because I am a religious person who takes God seriously, but I don't for a minute

Bob:

think that God only works with Christians.

Bob:

So I would certainly welcome Followers of Islam, or Judaism, or Buddhism, or

Bob:

Hinduism into that kind of direction too.

Bob:

I think we can learn from each other, and it's the same spirit

Bob:

that is guiding all of us anyway.

Lauren:

So, as we wrap up here, Bob, is there anything else you

Lauren:

would like to share with us?

Bob:

,I think for Christians in our own culture, we are looking

Bob:

at a somewhat scary, but I think very hopeful phenomenon.

Bob:

And that is that we've already entered, into a new phase of what

Bob:

Christianity is going to look like and what it's going to be.

Bob:

I think what we are going to see more and more of is people who take the

Bob:

gospel seriously as the gospel of love.

Bob:

are going to hopefully jettison some of the ways in which

Bob:

Christians have been offensive.

Bob:

And not the least of that is the ability to welcome people

Bob:

of different points of view.

Bob:

We will have people who, for whatever reason, justifiably

Bob:

or not, drive us crazy.

Bob:

But they are part of the household of God, and they need some respect,

Bob:

and they need to be listened to.

Bob:

And that for me is very exciting because I think if we can learn to do that most

Bob:

of what I've learned in life that has really been important, I've learned

Bob:

from people who are different from me.

Bob:

Different skin color, different background, different socioeconomics,

Bob:

different educational backgrounds, or no educational background.

Bob:

I would have nothing in common with.

Bob:

And the Holy Spirit has provided.

Bob:

The commonality and, and avenues to grow and to really cooperate in community

Bob:

so that the church I believe in for the future is a church in which the

Bob:

litmus test will not be what you believe or how you present the faith in a.

Bob:

written and or verbal sense, but how you live the faith.

Bob:

How do you, in your daily life, witness to a God who is loving and who has called all

Bob:

of us to be brothers and sisters and into one family that finds that love undercuts.

Bob:

The other things that divide us, so that it's possible for people who

Bob:

are vastly different to have a love and respect for each other, despite

Bob:

their difference I think it's not God's will that we should be uniform.

Bob:

It is God's will that we learn to love one another despite differences

Lauren:

You are describing what I believe Christianity is and just calling

Lauren:

us at this time in our culture, in our lives to make love the prime goal

Lauren:

with one another in our relationships and with ourselves in creation.

Lauren:

So, you know, I think that was just...

Lauren:

Perfect.

Lauren:

Thank you.

Lauren:

Thank you for sharing that.

Bob:

And I think that's that's where Christians need to think of love, is not

Bob:

so much an emotional reaction to someone as a, Intellectual decision to honor that

Bob:

person as a loved child of God and to realize that if God can love that person,

Bob:

maybe I can learn to do that as well.

Lauren:

Love takes a lot of work.

Bob:

Yes, it does

Jon:

to which we can only say Amen.

Jon:

Amen.

Jon:

And Bob, this has been great.

Jon:

We've really enjoyed having you with us today.

Jon:

I just wanted to ask you are now Retired once again, and maybe for

Jon:

the final time, retired as bishop?

Bob:

I think this is my last official retirement, in that I'm quite content to

Bob:

be doing spiritual direction with folks.

Bob:

And I will undoubtedly be asked to come and preach and do things, and

Bob:

I will accept that as long as I'm physically able to do that kind of thing.

Jon:

If anyone who's listening or watching is interested in contacting

Jon:

you about spiritual direction or what have you, Is there an address

Jon:

or a website we can point to?

Bob:

Yes.

Bob:

The easiest way, and I'm happy to, and I'm seeing both laypeople and clergy, so this

Bob:

is not just a clergy phenomenon the best way to reach me is by writing my personal

Bob:

email, which is RW iHLHOFF@GMAIL.COM

Jon:

we will put the correct email address in the show notes.

Jon:

So if people are interested, you can find those there at any time.

Jon:

And once again, Bob, thanks so much for being with us today.

Bob:

Thank you, Jon and Lauren.

Bob:

Thank you.

Bob:

You know, as you know, I think the world of you both, and I've

Bob:

had a long, long relationship.

Bob:

I mean, really, essentially 28 years with both of you.

Bob:

And that's been a lot of fun.

Bob:

It has.

Bob:

It has.

Bob:

And it goes on.

Bob:

It does.

Bob:

Thank you.

Bob:

Sure thing.

Lauren:

It's been delightful, Bob.

Lauren:

Thank you for being with us.

Lauren:

Jon and I also want to thank all who are watching and listening.

Lauren:

We cannot do this without your participation.

Lauren:

So please take a moment to comment, like, and share on all

Lauren:

your social media platforms.

Lauren:

This will help us spread the good news to even more people.

Lauren:

And again, thank you for the gift of your time with us today.

Lauren:

Until next time, peace and blessings.

Lauren:

Good news is being brought to you by Listening for Clues.

Lauren:

You can find us on our website, listeningforclues.

Lauren:

com, our YouTube channel, our Vimeo channel, and just about every

Lauren:

podcast platform that there is.

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