It’s me, Mark Stone, and in this episode of the Backseat Driver Podcast, I’m joined by Paul Tattersall, a familiar face at the Tour of Mull Rally, known as much for his commentary as for his unmistakable outfit, complete with Stetson hat, bright yellow Ferrari jacket, and cowboy boots.

Paul shares how his passion for motorsport developed, along with his love for historic Formula 1 and Formula 2 machinery. He talks about how his iconic look came about and how it became part of his identity within the rallying community.

We explore his experiences across motorsport, from rallying challenges to the thrill of racing at legendary circuits such as Circuit de Monaco and Autodromo Nazionale Monza. Paul also gives insight into the technical side of maintaining and restoring vintage race cars, where precision, knowledge, and patience are essential.

Alongside his motorsport work, Paul discusses his role at the University of Greater Manchester and his commitment to inspiring the next generation of engineers and racing enthusiasts.

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I'd like to introduce the backseat driver, a racing driver who has become equally famous on the start line of the Tour of Mull Rally in many ways for his very distinct outfit of Stetson, bright yellow Ferrari jacket and cowboy boots.

So, without further ado, Paul Tattersall, welcome to the backseat driver.

Thanks, Mark, it's very kind of you.

I'm pleased to be joining you before.

We move on to your.

The fact that it won't be very long before you'll be on the grid at Monaco in your classic F1 car, historic F1 car.

How did this unusual outfit come about and how did you end up on the mic on the Tour of Mul Rally?

Well, cursed.

It's quite a story, but when I went to grammar school, age 11, Queen Elizabeth in Blackburn.

Yeah.

Quegs, as it's affectionately known.

Yeah.

I went to school and in my class in that first year was a lad called Neil Molyneux.

Yes.

One of my very best friends.

And Nigel Wick, another past guest.

In fact, they both been.

They both sat in front of the same microphone.

Oh, hi.

So, inevitably, as I grew up and got interested in, or more interested in cars, as I got to the day where I could drive them, it was only going to be a matter of time before I went up to the Tour of Mul Raleigh, because, of course, Neil Mar's dad, established it.

Yeah.

And then eventually Brian Molyneux, as I say, established the Tour of More Rally, asked me if I would take on the role of commentator on the rally, which I was a bit in trepidation of doing, but very proud to be asked.

And at the time, throughout my time as a student and generally in my youth, I'd worn a Stetson hat.

Yeah.

For fun, really.

But also was a great way of getting to talk to girls.

Yeah.

Because they always used to say, what are you wearing that for?

There you go.

And you were in.

And I had a yellow rally jacket.

Yeah.

So I went and started doing the.

The commentary at the first year I did it.

Black Stetson, yellow coat, yellow jacket.

Yeah.

And that became the trademark.

So that's how it started.

Do you own or have you owned a Ferrari?

Because I noticed the jacket is Ferrari, it's Gallifly yellow.

Yeah.

I have A yellow Ferrari.

Well done.

At least you've got the car to go with the Colt.

Yes.

Have you ever done the Tour of Muller or have you always been, not being funny, a bystander.

Well, yes, I have.

And it's a bit of a sad tale really, way back because just putting.

In it's considered to be one of the most daunting rallies, isn't it?

Well, I built.

I built a rally Mini back in the late 70s around a brand new shell.

Yeah.

And yes, I suppose there was certain of an inevitability that at some point you're gonna have a doer the Tour of Mall.

So I decided I'd go rallying in my first rally was going to be the Tour of Malt and Neil Molyneux was going to be my navigator.

Yeah.

So willingly or otherwise?

No, quite willingly, initially.

So we went to Mall.

It was the days when it started on a. I think it started on Saturday afternoon with stages in the forest.

Then it ran through the night on road.

On road.

Selective.

Yeah.

And yes, much to our embarrassment, we managed to roll the car three nights before the start.

Oh, so you hadn't even got there then, really?

Well, no, we were on Mull.

Yeah.

And.

And, but no, we weren't practicing, honest.

Yeah.

So the following two to three days were frantically spent trying to straighten it out, getting friends to bring spare parts up from Blackburn.

And we did make the start line.

Yeah, we did one stage and we really got pretty, pretty confident.

Yeah, we're going well.

Second stage.

It all went wrong in Lettermore and yeah, we had a.

We didn't roll, but we had a major, A major accident, you know, tore the front corner off the car.

At which point Neil, I think concluded I was trying to kill him.

Yeah.

And we haven't done a rally together since.

But we are still very, very close, best friends.

Do you rally at all?

Have you rally since?

I. I did a few more rallies with couple of different navigators.

Including Clive Molyu.

Yeah.

Before he moved on to much greater things and enjoyed doing those.

But I was never competitive.

So a career started to take over and not having time to play.

Yeah, sadly I sold the car eventually.

It was a shame really.

But the.

The hat, jacket and boots persists.

And are you still to be seen on the start line of the Tour of Mull?

Well, the Tour of Mull doesn't exist anymore.

Yeah.

So the.

The Mule Rally does still exist and I have helped them on occasion.

But in recent years.

No, I've not.

They've got other people doing it.

I think I've been in effect retired by them.

But whilst you're not on the mic anymore, although you are today, you are now known for your love of racing.

Historic F1 and historic F2 cars with the Ensign and the Brabham that are being built here.

Where we are at.

Well, I keep calling it Bolton Mulston,.

University of Greater Manchester.

Yeah, it's now the University of Greater Manchester.

How did the passion for F1, historic F1 come about?

Because it's.

You didn't have a racing career, did you?

No.

I think I should stress for a start, Mark, I'm not a racing driver.

I drive racing cars.

Yeah.

And there's a big difference.

I wouldn't pretend I'm any great driver, but I do have a great pleasure in driving them.

You have an international license that you.

Don't you.

No dummies get those given out to.

Well, you've got to have an international C for to do historic international F1 events.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

Well, I guess it all started from this, this passion for cars.

And in the Ford dealership in Blackburn on display was Graham hills.

Yeah.

Lotus 49B.

Yeah.

In gold leaf.

Coarse.

And I remember thinking, wow.

Now I was.

And I still am a very keen model maker.

Yeah.

So I remember then building a plastic kit of a Lotus 49B made by a company called Tamiya from.

Yes.

Japan.

Always regarded as quite the best models with those.

Well, they were, yeah.

And they still are.

And I remember building that and literally assembling a dfd, a hero and gearbox, all suspension, all wheels and tires.

And I've got.

I built a number of those over the subsequent years of Tamiya.

Yeah.

F1 cars.

But yeah, I never really thought about having really owning one.

It's one of those things you sort of occasionally dream about but never think could become a reality.

And I guess now we are living the kids dream, which is just like unbelievable really, compared to what you imagined or could have imagined back in your youth.

But my career got.

It was.

Was very much taking up all of my time through the.

Through the 80s, 90s.

I mean, I bought the odd car but I didn't have time to do much with it.

Yeah.

So it was in, I think 99, but my friend Steve Hartley persuaded me to go to watch him racing his F1 arrows.

Yeah.

Monvern.

And I was awfully captivated because I remember standing in the pits at Monza, looking at all these incredible cars which were really living history.

And I just remember.

Had you beat a Monza before?

No, I'd never been before.

I mean, it's the crucible of speed.

Oh, it is.

There's nowhere else like monster.

No, no, no.

You got the commentators there and he's going Lotus.

And he's, he's the guy who's so excited and the crowd are going and there's not even a car on the track and it's just a phenomen place in terms of atmosphere.

But I remember being in the pits, all these DFAs starting up at once.

I'm thinking, wow, and what a racket.

But what a noise.

It was phenomenal.

And then standing on the pit wall as they all came out.

And bear in mind, like people of my generation, I sat watching races Grand Prix on telly with my dad, Murray Walker, commentator.

Yeah.

Is, I don't know, Carlos Reuterman's.

Yeah.

You know, Williams or whatever it was, or Niki Lauder's Ferrari or.

But that's somebody, is it?

All of this absolute classic machinery.

And it wasn't like you're watching cars that were like those you saw on telly as a kid, that the actual cars.

Yeah, I'm like, this is phenomenal.

And a new Steve actually had an F1 car for sale because he just bought an Arrows and he'd been running an Ensign.

And I was fortunate that I. I was just about to come into some significant funds for the first time in the life.

Anyway, the net result was I was so carried away, I said to Steve, this is fantastic.

And he said, well, built this enzyme for sale.

And one thing led to another.

So all my colleagues who were at work about to benefit from a bonus scheme as well, did the sensible thing.

Unpaid off the mortgages or whatever they do and pay for the kids education.

I did the absolutely sensible, rational thing and I bought an F1.

So.

And that's how I got into it.

Yeah, I mean, insight what may.

So the Ensign was.

That was what was for sale.

You didn't set out for an ED side?

No, I didn't go looking for an Ensign, but the Other thing was, Ensign was never famous for being thickly successful.

So if at that point in time I'd tried to buy a Lotus or a Williams, it would have been out of my reach.

I was going to say anything like that.

And it's like any other car you want something like that.

And it's, it's, it's international telephone number, isn't it?

I mean, it's just beyond belief.

Back then they weren't as expensive as they are now.

But, but yeah, it was, it was affordable.

Yeah.

So that was, that was partially the reason.

And, and I knew I was buying it from a friend who I knew very well.

So I knew what it was, I knew it was coming from.

So, you know, it all added up.

Yeah.

I mean, what's the history on the Ensign?

I mean, they were not.

No disrespect to them, they were not an overly successful team because as you said, Enzo Ferrari described them as G easters.

They were a little team that struggled but still made the grids.

They turned out an F1 car.

Yeah.

Well, Ensign Morris, Norm nor mo non was the man behind Ensign.

He established the, the team and the manufacturing capability, small though it was.

And they were particularly successful in the early 70s, Formula 3 cars, which were again, the Formula 3 was particularly popular in Germany.

Yeah.

So in probably 73, Ricky von Opel, who was heir to the Opel family, I understand, asked them to make an F1 car.

Yeah.

So they built an F1 car which was called.

It's called the 174.

And if you look at it and you, you, you Google it, you'll understand why they called it the Batmobile.

Yeah, it was a spectacular looking thing, fins, God knows what.

But I don't think it was massively successful and I don't think Ricky Von Opel was a great success as an F1 driver.

Yeah, but that was the start.

I think Ricky Von Opel disappeared from the scene fairly quickly.

The car morphed into something a bit more normal.

Ordinary.

Yeah.

And then various cars were designed through the mid-70s.

So the 174 was developed into a few different versions.

And there was the 175 and then came the 177.

And various drivers drove for Ensign.

But Ensign had a potted history with sponsors.

Sometimes Theodore Yip from Hong Kong was helping.

But probably the strongest sponsor they had for a while was Tissot Watches.

Yeah.

And various serious drivers who were to go on to become great drivers drove Ensigns.

They probably most notably is PK.

He drove a 177.

His first F1 car was a 177.

So Jack Yicks drove Ensign at one point.

So various drivers.

Mark Sewer drove mine at one point.

Yeah.

So it was a, it was a.

A small team but it was serious.

Like so many of the sort of lower echelon team, should we say they were skinned.

Yeah, they had, they were running from.

From one debt to another.

I mean this is from an era when apart from if you've got like Lotus and Ferrari and similar.

But this is how a lot of the teams actually had to operate.

It was like hand to mouth.

They do a Grand Prix this weekend.

They aren't a clue if they make the Grand Prix next weekend.

No.

Well, Ensign, some years had stronger support than others.

So the years where they had said T cell support, they could probably afford a little bit more.

Yeah.

In terms of the way they ran the team.

But I think in, in 79, when they're running my car, from what I can gather.

And this, a lot of this is.

Is set in hands where it may not be.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

But I don't think, for example, even on the engine.

Right.

The engines were on loan and that sort of thing.

So that would also be the era when they'd say to the driver, don't blow it up.

Well, well, but they were.

I mean my car was built in a.

In a small workshop in, in the West Midlands which subsequently between became a laundrette.

Yeah, it was just a little workshop and I think the team of about four guys built it.

And yeah, there was an era when you could build an F1 car with a small budget because you buy a DFE engine, you could buy a heel and gearbox, you could buy AP or at the time, Lockheed brakes.

Yeah.

And things like that.

You could buy all the major, major components.

The probably the most complex thing to do was to get things like uprights cast.

Yeah.

And the suspension was fabricated steel, the chassis were fabricated aluminum.

So you could build an F1 car.

Yeah.

And yeah, they're the people.

Ferrari.

Well, they started calling garage easters in the 50s, but they were true Gary Gistas.

These were guys working in not much more than a lockup.

Yeah.

And I mean when you look at the end results, I mean it's like we said, your edge sign is currently undergoing.

It's like biannual rebuild and everything else.

I mean it's an imp.

It's.

It's impressive.

I mean it's like you pointed out to me where they suddenly Got the tin snips out and altered things.

But it's an impressive looking car.

I mean the sh, the, the chassis, the framework looks good.

And bear in mind, Colin Chapman used to say the best F1 cars are the ones that fall apart as they cross the finish line.

Yeah.

You know, so they never expected them to last for this length of time.

And yeah, we nurse it a bit and it's, it's getting, it gets knocked.

Yeah.

You know, we have to replace the odd rivet and stuff like that, but it's still on the original tub and it's still got a huge amount of original parts.

And it mean obviously sometimes you've got to replace something because it breaks or it fatigues.

Because I was going to say that's the one thing with racing cars.

It's a little bit like helicopters.

Once they reach a certain age or they've been doing X amount for a period of time, they have to be replaced.

Well, they're constantly trying to pull themselves apart and the vibrations are immense, you know, and the loads on the car.

So yeah, we've just been doing a full strip down.

We have to crack test it every two years.

Crack test the major suspension components and safety components like roll hoops and stuff like that.

And, and then at the same time, and this is something I preach to the students is we look at it closely, we clean it thoroughly and we look closely, we look for cracks, we look for damage, we look for parts that are broken, we look for bushes, joints that need replacing and then, yeah, you replace or repair everything that needs doing.

You know, you go back out on the track.

We just had the engine rebuilt.

We're rebuilding the engine around 1,000 miles.

Yeah.

Between rebuilds and so it's quite a big job because the car looks like it's in a million pieces, but we'll have it on its wheels in the next two to three weeks.

I mean looking at it and it's like you were saying, small teams bought proprietary parts and their brakes and their engine.

What's it like getting parts for them?

Are, are certain things still available?

I mean you're at B, you're at Manchester, I must get this right.

Manchester, Bosford University.

I mean what they can't find, they can, they can reproduce here.

But yeah, we can get, I mean anything to do with the engine.

I'm not saying it's potentially easy to get the part.

Yes, you can get, you can rebuild the dfe Couple of DFE is what we're using.

I mean, because the DFV is still the most successful ever F1 engine.

Yeah.

And so those.

Those.

Those engines are still plenty of them running historics.

So you can rebuild the dfv.

Yeah.

Hewland.

And do now have an organization partum, which is in effect, part of hero, and that will provide all the spare parts for Healing Gearbox.

Yeah.

So you can.

You can rebuild those and AP still do all the.

For this.

Calipers and stuff.

You can get.

You can get.

There's those things.

We damaged an upright in a big accident in Portimayo in Portugal two and a half years ago, which was a magnesium cast up.

Right.

We broke it.

Yeah.

And so we had to make a new one.

And in fact, we made new ones which were done by 3D, scanning the old ones and then doing a 3D model.

Yeah.

Here with help of the university, and then getting some new ones and machines from solid billet aluminium.

Yeah.

Because the practicality of getting new ones cast in my nation was.

Was.

Was not really viable, should we say.

And so, yeah, that's what we did.

We make new uprights in aluminum, which is what we've got on the car.

Yeah, but fundamentally, you can get part.

Yeah, but.

But no.

And it's interesting because some of the students will look at a part and I'll say, well, we need to replace that.

Oh, so where do we get that from someone.

We make it.

So, you know, I think.

I think people who are used to being able to go and buy the part off a shelf.

Yeah, no, we need to make the parts.

Yeah.

So your first race, I mean, to get your license, like a lot you started, you did like, one and off seasons driving little formula fours to get.

To get your signatures, to get your stamps and to allow you to apply for the appropriate license.

You threw yourself in at the deep end, didn't you?

First race, no practice.

Monza.

Yeah.

Mandela was very exciting, actually, that first race.

And it's.

In many ways, it's still my favorite circuit.

It's a staggering, fabulous circuit.

Yeah.

I just.

And again, you do.

You know, I stress I'm a driver who drives race cars, not the other way around.

I won't pretend to be any great driver, but just the pleasure of taking part, seeing it.

I already remember at Monza, that very first race, passing Niki Lauda's Ferrari on the back straight, a Monza, and just sort of looking to my left as I'm passing it, probably 150, 160 miles per hour.

Something thinking, God, I'm just passing Nikhil Ferrari.

That should stress Nikolau was us riding.

I'd had a big time spell off because I couldn't afford to run it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

In which had been in the Lotus 49 which had been driven by Jim Clark.

And that car, this belongs to a guy called Chris who lives in America.

Yeah.

Lotus 49.

I'm just sort of waving at him as we cruise around on that formation lap and thinking, wow, this is untrue.

So yeah, you were just living a kid's dream.

I don't let people think know that people don't race.

Seriously.

I mean at the front end of the grids where I race, these guys are fast, they're serious.

And many, not many are significant on significant occasions.

Old F1 drivers have come back into historic.

So everybody's expected them to do well.

Yeah.

And they've been beaten by old amateurs.

Well, I mean a past guest and friend of mine is Nick Padmore who's regarded as probably he's regarded as like virtually the world's best historic F1 driver.

I mean he seems to make a living at it.

He's.

He's a very lovely man and he's very quick.

Yeah, yeah, nice fella.

I mean I've watched him on, on the films etc of embracing at Monaco and play that and it's like you said, they don't hang about and he's often to be seen racing a Lotus.

Yes.

That belongs to the guy in the Lotus in front of him.

Yes.

And it tends to be that the wolves in front of him tends to end up the Lotus behind him because though it's his mate and it's his mate's cars, they don't mess about, do they?

No, no, no.

And whilst I wouldn't claim that I'm a great racing driver, I'm still going as quick as I can.

Yes.

I'm not out there just to pounce around.

But.

And yes, I acknowledge that other drivers are a lot quicker than me.

But the front end.

Yeah, they are seriously quick.

And as I was explaining earlier, you know, places.

Well, say at Monaco a few years ago, they pitched up with Rene Arnault and Alasi.

Yeah.

In Ferraris and they didn't win.

So you know, there's the.

These cars are being raced.

Yeah.

To the limits as far as I feel.

So, so they should be.

I mean that's what they built them to do.

Well, I mean, what's it like the first time you grid up at Monaco?

I mean like monster.

I mean there's some serious history surrounding you.

History's looking down at you.

It's wow.

It's.

It's a mixture of very excited, frightening, nerve wracking and moms are sorry.

Monaco thankfully still have a standing start, which is what I think we should have in historic racing.

Yeah.

Now people argue it's dangerous and for sure, you know, you sit on a standing start grid, you look around you, who do you think is going to try and aim for the gap?

And there you aim for the gap and all the rest of it.

Not Monaco.

It's very narrow on the start line.

Yeah.

So you need to be fairly circumspect.

But yeah, it's just a mega thrill.

Yeah.

Once you're going, of course you're racing and you're just concentrating on the drive.

So you've, you, you, you've got to, you can't let your head wander into.

Oh, this isn't this wonderful.

You are out there and you're going up Casino Square.

Not how that way.

You're going up to.

Towards Casino Square.

And as you go up that hill, you know on the TV it looks straight.

Yeah.

It's not straight.

No.

You know, you are, you're flatting fourth for me at the top.

Yeah.

And it's quick and it's not straight, but yeah.

Yeah.

It's just a fabulous place to race because it's the ultimate.

It's the ultimate venue, isn't it, for, for the spectacle of F1?

I mean modern F1 in my opinion maybe needs to say goodbye to Monaco because once they all set off, nobody can actually overtake anything.

Do you find the Historics can actually overtake because they're not as big and as wide as a modern F1 car?

Well, there's lots of overtaking in the historics at Monaco partially because of the different coaches is the cars.

But yeah, largely because of a big difference in, in the speeds of the drivers, the capabilities of drivers.

So.

And if you watch me At Monaco.

Yes.

If I see an opportunity to overtake, I will.

If I see somebody clearly coming down in my mirrors quick.

Yeah.

I won't just move over instantly but I'll make sure I don't get in the way.

Yeah.

And at Monaco in the historics, one of the things you've got to watch out for very much you've got to watch your mirrors because.

Yeah, if somebody particularly quick is they see a gap, they'll go for it.

Yeah.

You've got to be aware they're going to go for it probably the most.

Yeah, the.

It is a very different than watching modern F1.

So if you, if you want to actually watch racing where there's some action at Monaco, don't bother with the modern F1.

Just go and watch the historic.

Yeah, I'll do.

It's full of action.

I suppose it's a little bit like the film and Ulus in it.

Grand Prix with James Gardner and all these guys.

I mean it starts at Monaco.

Yeah.

And I mean that's the other thing.

When you're going through the tunnel, even though you have the helmets and earplugs and everything else, surely the noise must be staggered from your own car and those around you.

The tunnel is spectacular, although it coming out of the tunnel into the daylight isn't as much of a problem in terms of the change of light as you might imagine.

Yeah, you come.

But that's the fastest bit of the circuit is the exit from the tunnel and that is probably one way place where you've got to be really careful that there's nobody going to try and pass you on the exit because that's the quickest bit.

It's one of the quickest overtaking spots and that you need to keep your eye on your mirror there if you know.

Because the problem is you'll come into that and somebody trying to cut in the inside of you is in.

You're into a very, very narrow and tight chicane.

So what's the ins?

One second is the outside next second.

Yeah, you, well you come out the, you come out the tunnel.

You got to, you've got to get your, your apex right on the tunnel and you just drift out.

So you not that far from the wall on the exit of the tunnel.

Yeah, obviously.

And then you.

Then it's across the right hand side for the left under around that little chicane.

Yeah.

And you are breaking very heavily going down there because you know you.

As I say it's the fastest part of the circuit on the exit yeah.

So yeah, you've got to really be aware of what's going on around you.

And also if you.

That's probably the best place you will have the opportunity to pass somebody if they're slower than you.

Yeah.

So.

Yeah, exciting.

So it's very tactical.

It can be very tactical.

You certainly, certainly if you, if you want, if you want to pass somebody at Monaco, there are two or three places where it's obvious that you can do it.

One is.

One is the exit from the tunnel.

The what?

The second most obvious place is going down the hill after Casino Square.

Yeah, that's probably the second most obvious place maybe going up the hill.

It depends on the other cars around you.

Yeah.

But.

But do you notice with the N signs like a.

A difference in power and output etc compared to some of the other cars?

No, I don't think there's a huge amount of difference in output, in power output.

Mine's what they call a long stroke.

Most people are racing a short stroke engine which will give a bit more power.

Probably down in part to gearing.

Yeah.

Getting the gearing right and again the confidence of the driver.

Yeah.

And inevitably I think as I'm getting older I'm a bit slower than I was and I'm probably a bit more concerned than some about damage it and having to pay for it.

Yeah.

It can't help but that affects you when you're paying for yourself.

Yeah.

I mean the other interesting car you've got is an F2 Brabant and it's like you said, you acquired that in many ways as a box of bits.

Oh no, no.

It's a roaring car.

I bought it all right.

But it's.

It's now undergoing a rebuild but you know, paperwork.

So you're not quite sure how it all goes back together.

Well, we've.

No, we.

Yeah, yeah.

I didn't strip it.

So we've got a car in.

In pieces that we're putting back together.

So.

Yeah, there's not, there wasn't.

There was not much documentation of it being stripped and hence we're rebuilding it.

But we're getting that.

It's also rumored, you were saying that it's probably the last car.

Sid.

Jack Brabham actually drove the last of his own cars.

He actually drove.

I'm not sure about that.

I just know that he drove it.

Yeah.

In the 90s at Donington on a gathering.

At a gathering of ex world champions where he was meant to be driving an F1 Bravon.

Yeah.

And it for some reason wouldn't run so he drove this F2 one of mine instead.

I know, I don't know for sure.

It's the last single seater he drove, but it must have been amongst the later ones he drove.

Now, the interesting thing is, like you were saying before we went on Air, that F2 car is from an era when they weren't actually that much slower than an F1 car.

I mean, a lot of the drivers of their time that era drove F1, F2 Endurance.

They drove every formula and every type going.

So F2 cars.

Right.

It's your quick co. Oh, yeah.

Well, the.

In.

In the era of.

Obviously through this, through the.

Till the mid-60s on and before that, when.

But mid-60s, really, when F2 came in through into the 70s, all the big names drove F2.

Yeah.

Partially drove F2 in order to get F1 to F1, but even once they were established in F1.

Yeah.

It drove F2.

And so.

The.

The.

The whole scene was rather different.

You know, these.

These drivers weren't just dedicated to F1 like they are now.

They were driving.

They were driving as often as they could.

Yeah.

And so an F2 was highly competitive and they were.

I mean, that era mines 1.6 liter, then they came 2 liter.

And if you put in historics, if you were to put an F2 2 liter car up against F1s.

Yeah.

With a good driver, I'll bet you.

I'll bet you a good F2 car would be up against the F1s and competing near the front.

Yeah.

In historics.

But that doesn't happen very often, I don't think.

But as regards everything, like, you just enjoy.

You're just enjoying this, aren't you?

You just.

I mean, very few people I know will be garage Joy.

There's an F1 car bit.

Well, exactly.

I mean, yeah, I know it doesn't.

Live at all, but it's a bit like that.

It's it.

Yes.

You just look back and.

And you look and you say to yourself, well, very fortunate to have been able to play and live out a dream and just enjoy going to these fabulous places and taking part in history.

Which is why I prefer to race mostly on the continent, because I want to go to those places like Spa, like Sambor, like Monaco, like Monza, like Dijon.

You know, where I saw F1 cars racing all those years back on TV.

And I must confess, I know it's a nice day today, but the weather a lot nicer out most of the time.

It's just.

It's just a lovely house.

It's raining Monaco.

I know that.

Oh, don't you worry, I've raced in the rain.

I'll tell you a quick tale, actually.

But the forecast for Sunday and the rest day was, was rain.

And sure enough, it's raining, but it's.

Generally quite enthusiastic when it rains down there.

So I'd only at that point done about eight laps in practice, probably 10, 12 laps, 10 laps in qualifying.

So I'd done probably 18 laps of Monaco and I hadn't changed to get ready to race at that point.

It was lunchtime and we were racing at the end of the day.

So I was wandering through the pits, sort of nervous, wondering what to do next really, because the car is ready and I'm looking at the weather and thinking, good God.

And during the day, the lunchtime break Porsche had brought a lot of cars down and they were being demoed by big name drivers and one of them was Derrick Bell.

And so Derek, there, Bell was there in his white Porsche overalls, looking very smart and he's a nice bloke, he's Derek Bell.

I'd spoken to him briefly once before, I'm sure he wouldn't remember.

Anyway, I approached him and I said, hello, you know, could I ask him a question?

He said, well, of course, you know, I said, well, I said, I'm going around this, the circuit a bit later on and I've never been around it in the rain.

Yeah, you know, what advice might you give me about how I approach it sort of thing.

And he sort of gave me a bit of a glib answer, friendly enough, but he clearly didn't mean, didn't realize I meant I was racing.

So I said to him, no, I said, I'm, I'm racing an F1 car.

Yeah, last race of the day.

Oh, he said, oh.

He said, I didn't realize we were actually racing.

He said, he said, well, he said, I think he said to me, I don't think I've ever been around here in the rain myself.

So, yeah, I'll tell you what, ask this chap who he's, he'd be able to give you a proper answer.

So he tapped the fella behind him on the shoulder, was also wearing the white poor, short yours, and it was Jackie Hicks.

So Derek Bell said, asking me a question.

So I said, you know, I met, I never met Jack Hicks before.

I introduced myself, said, you know, I'm racing in the last race of the day in the rain and I've only ever.

I've only done, you know, one practice, one quality and now I'm very nervous.

What's your advice?

And he just turned to me and he smiled.

He said don't get in the cup.

Bolt at us all.

Let's hope it doesn't rain this year in Monaco and that you have a marvelous outing in your historic F1 car.

Your headside body looking car.

Leave a lot I'd like to see when it's all back together as it is.

It's it bits but anyway wants to see it.

Get yourself down to Monaco for the historic because you'll see Paul and you'll see his very spectacular looking inside.

Before we finish, I think we should also say I'll be there with a small team from the University of Greater Manchester and the as you've seen the car is based here at the minute and where I work on it with students as a project for the students to actually have the opportunity to get involved in, you know, running and operating race car in this case an F1 car.

I'll be with some students at Monaco.

They will be able to then put on their CVs that they've yeah been.

That'll be funny to unhelder thing pit crew on an F1 car.

I'm indebted to Mark Busfield and all the team here, the wonderful team here at.

At the University of Greater Manchester who give me their support and I, I would like to thank them and make sure that everybody appreciates just what a great job they're doing and how it's a wonderful opportunity for the students to really learn here.

Yeah.

I mean to be surrounded by F1 cars really as we are now.

It's.

It's one hell of a thing though, isn't it?

And these students get to work on or are taught how to work on them by the one be all the Mr. Mark Busfield.

Oh, there we go.

But great guy.

So yeah.

So it's a big thanks to University.

Of Greater Manchester but once again bolt off us all.

All the best for Monaco.

I hope you are cracking time.

I'd like to see the car.

I'd like to come back here and see the thing complete, all finished, all built up.

Come back in a month's time.

It'll be.