Are you listening closely? Every podcast consists of three parts, or acts. The first part is called the pledge, and that’s where I tell you that this week on Left of the Projector, we are dipping into the filmography of Christopher Nolan with his 2006 film The Prestige. That’s the ordinary part of this episode.

The second act is called the Turn. That’s where I tell you all the amazing actors in this episode from the great David Bowie, to Hugh Jackson, Christian Bale, Michael Caine, Scartlett Johansson, Rebecca hall and andy serkis. This is where we take the ordinary and tell you we are going to do something extraordinary. We have Alexa Speed as our guest today, whom you may know from her page Cut off the Spigot…

And now, though, we have to deliver the 3rd act, the hardest part…the part we call the Prestige…

Guest Links

Official Cut Off the Spigot Site

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Left of the Projector Links

Official Website

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Left of the Projector on Patreon

Left of the Projector on Threadless

Host Links

Evan's Letterboxd

Bill's Instagram

Bill's Letterboxd

Ward's Instagram

Ward's Letterboxd

Track 2: Every podcast consists of three parts, or acts. The first part is called The Pledge.

Track 2: That's where I tell you that this week, on Left of the Projector,

Track 2: we are dipping into the filmography of Christopher Nolan, with his 2006 film, The Prestige.

Track 2: That's the ordinary part of this episode. The second act is called The Turn.

Track 2: That's where I tell you all the amazing actors in this film,

Track 2: including the late, great David Bowie, Hugh Jackman, Christian Bale,

Track 2: Michael Caine, Scarlett Johansson, Rebecca Hall, and Andy Serkis.

Track 2: This is where we take the ordinary and tell you we are going to do something extraordinary.

Track 2: We have Alexa Speed as our guest today, whom you may know from her page Cut Off the Spigot.

Track 2: And now, though, we have to deliver the third act, the hardest part,

Track 2: the part we call the prestige.

Track 2: Sit back in your seats, get something to eat, and watch this movie. We don't want to kiss you.

Track 2: Video. Thank you.

Track 2: If you'd like to support the show for as little as $3 a month,

Track 2: you can go to Patreon forward slash Left of the Projector Pod.

Track 2: If you'd like to dress in style, we've got shirts.

Track 2: And at leftoftheprojectorpod.threadless.com, you can grab one and show everyone

Track 2: you've got the best taste around.

Track 2: Wherever you're listening, give us a rating and subscribe so you'll be notified

Track 2: of our weekly episodes that drop every Tuesday.

Track 2: And now on to the show. Welcome to the show, Alexa.

Track 1: Speed from Cut Off the Spigot. Basically, I go category by category to find

Track 1: alternatives to badly behaving companies, big corporations, and private equity firms.

Track 1: That's pretty awesome. That's an awesome resource, especially,

Track 1: you know, I mean, it feels like a challenge just to live in this world nowadays

Track 1: and try to make, you know, good ethical choices.

Track 1: I mean, there is no, you know, ethical consumption under capitalism,

Track 1: but, you know, we try to do our best, you know, and honestly,

Track 1: that's an incredible resource.

Track 1: So, you know, thank you for everybody. I'm thanking you for everybody. No, I appreciate that.

Track 1: Oh, and I think I was saying in our emails back and forth, when I go to your

Track 1: page and you can see how many people you know that follow someone else,

Track 1: a very low number of people that I follow also follow your page.

Track 1: So if you are listening, you should check it out. And what are some of the ones

Track 1: you've done recently that people might be able to check out?

Track 1: Yeah, so I have a video that's kind of a good summary of brands to boycott because

Track 1: they collaborate with ICE in some form or another.

Track 1: And then the alternatives to those companies. And then I did a specific one

Track 1: on AT&T alternatives because they have a huge, I think it's $83 million contract with ICE.

Track 1: So if you're looking for ice boycott alternatives, definitely check out my page.

Track 1: Another kind of big series I did was Spotify Alternatives. So that has six parts.

Track 1: So if you listen to podcasts or audiobooks or want a free version,

Track 1: any of that, I've got you covered.

Track 1: That is how I found your page, actually, was Spotify. And actually led me to cancel Spotify.

Track 1: Wow. So, you know, it's, yeah, so...

Track 1: Yeah, no, it's pretty cool. It's actually doing that series.

Track 1: I switched to Kobuz, which is my preferred alternative, at least if you're going

Track 1: to get a paid subscription.

Track 1: But there were so many cool things that I found through that, too.

Track 1: Radio Paradise, which is free, basically a free radio streaming app, but you can skip tracks.

Track 1: That's fun. I mean, also, as we advocate in the show, anyone should have a library

Track 1: card to their local library.

Track 1: You'd be amazed how many video movies you can watch through.

Track 1: New York doesn't have Canopy, but many places do. And so you can get.

Track 1: Use your local library or my wife will divorce me for not plugging the library. She is a librarian.

Track 1: Go to the library. She will yell at me.

Track 1: Yes, everyone should go to the library. But so we are talking about The Prestige.

Track 1: And so as I usually do, I send a list of a number of films. And I know,

Track 1: Alexa, you had picked a few of them from the list. We kind of were narrowing it down.

Track 1: But what is your maybe relationship with The Prestige or history with it,

Track 1: having watched it in the past?

Track 1: As we said, it came out in 2006. So it's been out for almost, well, I guess 20 years.

Track 1: So I'm curious what your overall history with it is.

Track 1: Yeah so when it first came out i'm pretty sure i saw it with my dad in the theater,

Track 1: 2006 i was 17 so it was right around high

Track 1: school college time and i remember loving it i remembered the twist and and

Track 1: all that and i thought it was such a great movie but i'm not really a movie

Track 1: re-watcher once i've seen something unless it's really really good or it's one

Track 1: of those movies where you can,

Track 1: I guess the prestige is kind of this, but one of those movies where you can

Track 1: watch six times and always discover some little new plot detail that you didn't catch the last time.

Track 1: So I basically really loved it when it came out and then never watched it again.

Track 1: But I have to say on this rewatch, I was very excited because it was nice to

Track 1: be sort of refreshed with what happened.

Track 1: And even though I knew the twist, it was still pretty interesting.

Track 1: And so and I I don't think I realized when it came out that it was a Christopher Nolan movie.

Track 1: So it's interesting to see it from that perspective. Now seeing so much of his later work.

Track 1: Yeah. I think I was having, this is completely an aside, but I think Bill and

Track 1: I were having a conversation recently about, you know, when people go to the

Track 1: movie, are they consciously thinking about like, oh, that's the new Christopher Nolan movie?

Track 1: And I think the average person probably doesn't think about that.

Track 1: I didn't think about that when this came out.

Track 1: I didn't know who Christopher Nolan was in 2006. yeah he wasn't

Track 1: i mean he wasn't he

Track 1: he was i think he was kind of up and coming because i

Track 1: mean he did this is after memento and memento was

Track 1: a big hit and a big that was kind of cult phenomenon the big thing but and i

Track 1: think christopher nolan is one of the few directors who that even like even

Track 1: the average person who's not a movie nerd does go oh this is a christopher Nolan

Track 1: movie. Oh, yeah. Okay. This is Christopher Nolan.

Track 1: But by and large, I don't think, and I don't think at this time,

Track 1: outside of people who were in movies, I don't think they were like Christopher.

Track 1: You forgot about Batman Begins came out before this. Oh, you're right. You're right.

Track 1: So, yeah. I totally forgot Batman Begins came out before this. Yeah.

Track 1: So, yeah. I do think at this time, Christopher Nolan was one of those names

Track 1: that people, yeah, they would be like, oh, it's a.

Track 1: Batman, like I, I'm a comic fan, like back, you know, and I'm, I was a huge fan.

Track 1: Like I loved that. Maybe all I love the Nolan Batman trilogy.

Track 1: And I think this is his by far best movie.

Track 1: I agree with that, too. Now I feel like I need to go watch all those movies again.

Track 1: Like, I thought it was good, but now it's like, oh, it's the best. I don't know.

Track 1: It's probably not a popular opinion, I would say. I actually,

Track 1: like, I think when we get to the second half, or when we talk about the second half a little bit more,

Track 1: or I guess I could talk about it now, but, like, the way that the movie is directed,

Track 1: And it's a lot of different time cuts that you're going through and different places.

Track 1: And as I was watching it, I was like, this is masterfully executed because it unfolds.

Track 1: Like, it doesn't feel like you are being jerked around between these different

Track 1: time periods and locations. It's like, oh, no, it's just like beautifully unfolding.

Track 1: Yeah. Like, I think that a lot of people look at like some of his other movies

Track 1: and they're so ambitious and they're so grand in scope.

Track 1: But, and I, I think that in a lot of ways, this movie is more intimate.

Track 1: And I think people think that like, they look at like his other movies,

Track 1: like, oh, it's so, you know, whatever inception, you know, oh,

Track 1: it's such a, so, you know, it's the dream.

Track 1: And they, they made the thing and blah, blah, blah, the spinning rooms and all that shit.

Track 1: Right. But like this, it's like, it's a little more intimate and all the,

Track 1: like most of his other movies. Yeah.

Track 1: 90% of it slots together perfectly in the end. But then there's some real just

Track 1: like, oh, he dropped that ball.

Track 1: You watch this movie and it's like, oh, there's not, he didn't,

Track 1: no, nothing was dropped.

Track 1: It's solid all the way through. It's perfect.

Track 1: Not a single drop thread, not a single, listen, he walked in one door,

Track 1: threw that ball, walked through it, caught on the other side.

Track 1: Done. End of conversation. No, he really did.

Track 1: Well, and for people who maybe, who's been a while since they've seen it,

Track 1: just has like a brief context on kind of the overarching or the setup of the film.

Track 1: It takes place in the 1890s in London, and it's basically about the life of

Track 1: two different magicians played by Hugh Jackman and Christian Bale.

Track 1: Hugh Jackman is Robert Angier, and Christian Bale is Alfred Borden.

Track 1: And they're kind of having this—initially, they're kind of working together

Track 1: under the same tutelage of, like, Michael Caine, sort of their producer,

Track 1: I guess you could say, or agent. I don't know what his official title would have been. Manager?

Track 1: Mentor. I don't think he's not working. They're not working under him.

Track 1: Michael Caine is working under, they're all working underneath the same guy.

Track 1: Whoever that first magician is, like the great Alfred or whatever.

Track 1: I don't fucking remember his name. Right, right, right. Yeah,

Track 1: I guess the beginning, yeah.

Track 1: They all just work for him and I think Michael Caine is really more of a back

Track 1: of the, you know, it's like he's not the showman, but he's a highly respected,

Track 1: well-known, you know, what they call him. He finds tricks for them to perform.

Track 1: Right. He's an engineer, an engineer, as they say, which I'm like,

Track 1: why, why are we putting this French spin on engineer?

Track 1: But like, you know, he's the engineer, I believe they say it,

Track 1: how they say it. It's like the imagineer.

Track 1: Yes. Yes. That's exactly it. They all really just work for one guy and he just

Track 1: sees, he sees potential in them.

Track 1: Right. And so, and so, and at the time also, the, as added piece of this is

Track 1: that Hugh Jackman is married and his wife is sort of one of the assistants and

Track 1: he's sort of, and she ends up dying during a water tank, you know, extract escape.

Track 1: And he blames, you know, he blames this on Christian Bale and they basically create a lifelong,

Track 1: you know, back and forth between them, you know, pursuing their careers,

Track 1: going after each other, trying to sabotage one another, you know,

Track 1: being odd at their tricks and then trying to one up them.

Track 1: So it's this constant struggle between them.

Track 1: And I don't know. I mean, you said the film has so many different timelines,

Track 1: Alexa, like it has the present time where the opening is where Christian Bale

Track 1: is being arrested for murdering Hugh Jackman.

Track 1: So you start the movie, Hugh Jackman is dead.

Track 1: Christian Bale is on trial and going to be executed for it.

Track 1: And then it starts going back and forth into each of them kind of remembering

Track 1: their past. And it's just.

Track 1: By reading each other's diaries simultaneously.

Track 1: Yeah, it's crazy.

Track 1: I didn't even think about that till you said that, that it's really the diaries

Track 1: is how we're experiencing them, like the memories.

Track 1: It's like, to me, it was even that more, much more seamless where I was like,

Track 1: oh yeah, this is a diary. They're reading the diary. Yeah.

Track 1: Which I, this, I hadn't thought of this until now. And you think about this

Track 1: sometimes in films or like a book you read where it's the first person and you're

Track 1: getting the story from an individual person.

Track 1: So what happened may not have actually happened that way.

Track 1: That's sort of the way that one person is telling the story,

Track 1: but each of them are reading each other's version of the events.

Track 1: And so like you wonder also is how much of it is accurate.

Track 1: And it seems like they're, you know, I don't know. You never get the impression

Track 1: that either of them are like, that's not what I did.

Track 1: They seem to both have owned up to being complete pieces of shit to each other.

Track 1: Yeah it's it's

Track 1: crazy their rivalry just gets to such a point

Track 1: and in the beginning i feel like at

Track 1: least for me watching it you're more invested and you're like oh

Track 1: like who's gonna win they're always one-upping each other and then

Track 1: by the end it's just like what were

Track 1: you doing yeah what is

Track 1: wrong with you point of all this yeah what is

Track 1: wrong with you people what is your problem and the

Track 1: the the thing that i think like fits to me at

Track 1: the beginning when i'm thinking about this kind of as like a leftist perspective

Track 1: is so well i guess for one i mentioned happens in 1890s london and

Track 1: for people who may know or not know at that time this is sort

Track 1: of considered the technical technological revolution or the second industrial

Track 1: revolution where mass production of things were starting to are starting to

Track 1: happen and we also see a very distinct class dynamic between the two of them

Track 1: like christian bale is very clearly poor you know does not come for money Whereas

Track 1: as we go through the film,

Track 1: we see that Christian Bale is definitely a man of means as he meets Tesla later in the film.

Track 1: And he uses a lot of money to, you know, procure a new trick.

Track 1: Huge action. What did I say?

Track 1: Christian Bell. Hugh Jackman is the man. Yes, Hugh Jackman, yes.

Track 1: He is the wealthy one. And so it has like a distinct class dynamic,

Track 1: which I would imagine would be very important in that era especially.

Track 1: We do get an allusion to that early on when the wife mentions the name and he

Track 1: goes you know, that he that he's playing a part.

Track 1: She says, you are playing a part. And he goes, I'm just using a different name

Track 1: i promised my family i wouldn't sully our good name with my whatever like my

Track 1: performances or whatever yeah like you get the hint at the beginning yeah.

Track 1: And yeah i think i think it's is it pretty early on

Track 1: in the beginning too when like the mystery lord

Track 1: visits and like talks to christian bale's character

Track 1: about how like he's going to be so destitute and his

Track 1: daughter won't be able to survive and she's going to go to the

Track 1: workhouse and so like even

Track 1: though you see later in the film that christian bale's doing okay like

Track 1: it's still that there's just no so like from a leftist

Track 1: perspective there's absolutely no social safety net

Track 1: and it's pretty striking and

Track 1: off the bat yeah like the the and that's another thing too that you that you

Track 1: sort of you find out early on he's in prison he has a daughter and then you're

Track 1: like oh i wonder who his like his wife is and like what how did that happen

Track 1: and then And they sort of weave that portion into it where it's such a well-crafted,

Track 1: as we keep saying, is that you don't get a detail and then they sort of tell

Track 1: you that detail through multiple perspectives at the same time,

Track 1: which is just, I don't even know how you even make this.

Track 1: You know, I'm not a filmmaker, so I don't know anything, but this seems very challenging.

Track 1: Yeah, I feel like it would be, it's like you're writing it from like both the

Track 1: front end and the back end and the middle and making it all work together.

Track 1: Yeah, and the thing that also is happening at the same time,

Track 1: well, part of their feud escalation is they're essentially just keep sabotaging each other's acts.

Track 1: And so one of the tricks that I think that Borden, who is the Christian Bale's

Track 1: character, wants to do this bullet catch, which is sort of like you're catching

Track 1: a bullet, which isn't actually in the gun.

Track 1: And, you know, it's kind of everything is sort of these sleight of hands.

Track 1: But then Hugh Jackman shows up and actually shoots him and he loses two of his

Track 1: fingers, which imagining being a magician and you now have two less fingers

Track 1: to be able to do all of your things is...

Track 1: And also just warned him, though. Yeah, she did.

Track 1: She did warn him. And he literally said, well, if someone crazy comes up, then I'm screwed.

Track 1: But otherwise, I'll be fine. And then it's like, you have a feud with another magician.

Track 1: Yeah. What could possibly happen?

Track 1: It's funny because this movie truly is so well written and directed and the

Track 1: story unfolds so beautifully.

Track 1: But sometimes, like, some of the things the characters do, they're such idiots.

Track 1: Pure ego. There's, like, a very simple way not to do this. It's pure ego.

Track 1: It's all about ego and hubris.

Track 1: Like, that's all. This is a huge story of hubris and ego.

Track 1: Yeah, and obsession. I think for Christian Bale, because he's relatively poor

Track 1: or, like, you know, fairly low.

Track 1: Like, when he's first, when he's having an argument with his wife about the

Track 1: bullet catch, they live in, like, a pretty crummy apartment.

Track 1: You know in this apartment building and he's essentially each of

Track 1: them seems to it seems to be this case where once

Track 1: they have a new trick that's really popular all of a sudden

Track 1: they start getting you know more tickets and money and then

Track 1: they all of a sudden he has like a nicer you know it's like a brownstone or

Track 1: some kind of nicer place because of it and so

Track 1: he's he's they're both like completely willing to

Track 1: take any kind of risk to one-up each other

Track 1: and also just to be the best like they

Track 1: have no well it's interesting

Track 1: because they they talk a lot about he jackman's

Track 1: character like not wanting to get his hands dirty um and whereas with christian

Track 1: bale's character he is almost forced to get his hands dirty because he doesn't

Track 1: have the means to like he has to make the trick work because he needs to you

Track 1: know have a decent living situation and all that like.

Track 1: This really comes to, I mean, the class dynamic is a huge aspect of this because

Track 1: really Hugh Jackman's character, Angier, like he doesn't have to sacrifice.

Track 1: He can fail. This really boils down to the kind of like, to me,

Track 1: thinking about it more, it really brings to mind the way we live now in this concept of world.

Track 1: Since the advent of like, you know, the, since the.com era, the.com boom,

Track 1: and like the advent of computers, how like the tech oligarchy and the tech bros

Track 1: have just continually been like, you know what?

Track 1: We can do everything because we can code.

Track 1: We could do everything. We demand that we get credit for everything. We have AI.

Track 1: We can make art now. We're artists now. Oh, we can, we can run. We can do this.

Track 1: We were musicians now because they have the means of the production to basically.

Track 1: Make a facsimile of such things.

Track 1: And Danton, or I'm sorry, not Danton. He's not Danton yet.

Track 1: And Gier is just basically like, you know what? I'm rich. I want to be a magician.

Track 1: Like, I want to do this. And it's like, man, like, meanwhile,

Track 1: Christian Bale's like, listen, I got to sell tickets or we're not getting food.

Track 1: And this guy, he could just, he could pack it up anytime. Go home.

Track 1: He's fine. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing that's kind of crazy about all of

Track 1: it is that, and again, it goes back to my frustration of like the whole thing.

Track 1: Yeah. It's all ego. It's so, it's, it's just this obsession with ego.

Track 1: And speaking of, like, the tech bros and tech oligarchy, but, like,

Track 1: I thought, you know, they're using the birds and the trick to make them disappear

Track 1: and reappear, but the bird dies and they kill it.

Track 1: And I thought that was such a kind of beautiful analogy for like,

Track 1: just like tech companies. And it's like, oh, it's all this beautiful stuff. Like it's AI.

Track 1: It's going to make you magic, you know, pictures and do all your tasks and all these amazing things.

Track 1: But it's not showing you. It's like, this is all the magic, but it's not showing

Track 1: you the bird that dies, which is like environmental impacts.

Track 1: Like the amount of, you know, copyrighted material that they're just using blatantly and all that stuff.

Track 1: And it's like, I don't know. I just don't look behind the curtain.

Track 1: Yeah, exactly. Like, and it's just like, oh, we'll just hide it away. Shush.

Track 1: You know, I mean, I think that's I mean, I don't know how much Nolan was thinking about the idea of just.

Track 1: You know, as I, as I, maybe we'll get to soon, because when we get to sort of

Track 1: like the later, as you were kind of talking about sort of the second half of

Track 1: the film, or even like the last third,

Track 1: when Tesla comes in, and we have sort of these other components is that all of capitalism,

Track 1: is an illusion.

Track 1: This movie, all of it is just one big, as you said, Bill, like,

Track 1: it's don't peek behind the curtain,

Track 1: don't see the exploitation of the of, you know,

Track 1: the global south and all of the things that are letting you

Track 1: be able to do all these things and at the time the

Track 1: thing that was like the illusion was oh you know

Track 1: if i want a new hat i can just go to the store because they can just mass mass

Track 1: produce hundreds of hats where it used to be someone had

Track 1: to have an artist would have to actually craft my hat and it

Track 1: required you know artistry and you know all these

Track 1: different things and i don't know like even in

Track 1: some ways beyond that of it's it's sort

Track 1: of the economy if you think about it we look at gdp and

Track 1: the stock market and it's like we have the magic of the

Track 1: stock market always going up and up and up but then we don't see what's happening

Track 1: behind the scenes which is all the people struggling to even pay like day-to-day

Track 1: expenses even biden he was like oh the economy's great and it's like what are

Track 1: you talking about for who yeah for who for who,

Track 1: and again and again it's the same thing with like you know angers it's like

Track 1: oh yeah this is all great well yeah because man like,

Track 1: You can walk away. You're fine.

Track 1: This is all gravy for you, man. Even his squalid apartment that he lives with

Track 1: his wife, that was not like, you know, they were living the nice,

Track 1: they were living the high life.

Track 1: She also was, you know, they're out there on a bark just doing,

Track 1: you know, they're pretending to be poor. He loses his wife because he's out there doing this.

Track 1: He loses something important because he's doing something that he doesn't need to be doing.

Track 1: At the end of the day. I mean, yes, we realize Christian Bale tied the other

Track 1: knot he wasn't supposed to do. We don't know that.

Track 1: We don't know that. I don't know enough about knots to be able to tell,

Track 1: but she nods to him to be like, yes, please tie that other knot. I can do it.

Track 1: She was at least in on it, even if they made the wrong decision.

Track 1: Yeah, and we understand. He's not going to admit to it. I mean,

Track 1: he, he, you know, he comes to the funeral and he's like, oh,

Track 1: I don't know which knot I tie like that.

Track 1: He asked him that constantly, you know, the rest of the film is like,

Track 1: oh, what knot did you tie?

Track 1: He's like, oh, I don't, I don't know. I can't remember. And like,

Track 1: he knows which knot he tied. I feel like you're a magician.

Track 1: You know, I do. I do think it's funny. And this is to go back.

Track 1: And this is just about the bullet catch trick.

Track 1: You would just never put the bullet in the thing at all. There would be no trick ramrod.

Track 1: You just wouldn't put the bullet in. They just bombed the bullet.

Track 1: Like you're trained. Like I call it.

Track 1: It's slight of hand. Like you would just not do that, but you would never be in there at all.

Track 1: But that's not what happened. What happened was that I know that I'm well aware.

Track 1: I'm just saying he's like showing.

Track 1: He's like, this is how we make sure that it's like, no, it's never even be in

Track 1: it at all. There would be no trick ramrod.

Track 1: You just, No, no one's no one's doing that fucking psychotic.

Track 1: No, that wouldn't be what you do. Yeah, that's true.

Track 1: That's a good point. And like the there was something I was going to mention

Track 1: about the the classes and stuff, too, but I forgot what it was.

Track 1: I think I lost it.

Track 1: I mean, as the like, so I think this is the point in the film where sort of

Track 1: things become like their their rivalry, like becomes to a new level when Borden

Track 1: releases a new illusion called the transported man,

Track 1: where I think you were saying with the ball, he goes into one sort of closet

Track 1: and he bounces the ball before he does.

Track 1: And he opens the other closet and he's there again and he picks up the ball

Track 1: and the trick goes viral as it would be like in 1890 Britain or whatever.

Track 1: It's like he's selling tickets, people are talking about it.

Track 1: I mean, they keep saying a lot of times how people are talking about the trick.

Track 1: Like were people talking about magic tricks in 1890?

Track 1: I guess you have a lot else to do. Yeah, I mean, I would say because theater

Track 1: was like, you know, you don't have like the- Yeah, yeah, true, true.

Track 1: Now and so theater was a big thing and like even i

Track 1: mean like there would be crazy stuff that

Track 1: would like come through new york city and everybody would be like oh we gotta

Track 1: go see the thing you know yeah that's true true that was a part that part did

Track 1: make sense this this is the i mean not the height of but this is the early era

Track 1: of vaudeville in which you know vaudeville was that That was culture.

Track 1: That was what people went out to see.

Track 1: So, you know, vaudeville basically ran from 1870s to 1930s.

Track 1: So we are looking at, you know, within the first 20 years of vaudeville and

Track 1: it being so, you know, huge.

Track 1: Like, yeah, that would be, they didn't have radio.

Track 1: They didn't have TV. That's what they did.

Track 1: Circus is a big thing during this time too. Like the 1890s. Yeah, I would think so.

Track 1: And that, I mean, that's, that's like where the big circuses came from,

Track 1: right? They're from London, right?

Track 1: Like Barlow, Barlow and I can't think of what it's called. Um, not awesome.

Track 1: Yeah. Isn't that a British company?

Track 1: Um, but yeah, no, I guess, I guess that does, so they are, so I guess you would

Track 1: be talking about these things with your, you know, and especially I just also

Track 1: think of a time when people would be on the street corner selling, you know,

Track 1: newspapers and holding up billboards for their things that they're trying to sell.

Track 1: So I imagine you're walking to work or whatever and you see,

Track 1: Oh, like, come here, you know, check out this new magician, you know,

Track 1: just, I don't know, 50 pence or whatever.

Track 1: I don't know who knows what the cost of these things were, but I guess it does

Track 1: make sense. But the illusion, the transported man took, caused Angier to essentially

Track 1: become obsessed that he had to know the trick.

Track 1: And Michael Caine is like, oh, well, he just has a body double who looks exactly like him.

Track 1: And, you know, they found someone and he just goes through a trap door on one

Track 1: side and he already pops through the other side and that's him.

Track 1: But Angier is like convinced that it's not the real thing. And it seems like

Track 1: everything from there spirals because he has to find out how he does this trick.

Track 1: It's like imagining some other capitalist, like, creates the,

Track 1: you know, Henry IV creates the assembly line.

Track 1: It's like, oh, I got to know how he did that so I can, you know,

Track 1: make my profits. And so, I don't know.

Track 1: Yeah, it's really interesting because it's like Hugh Jackman's character has...

Track 1: Money wealth power you know

Track 1: like enough freedom to just go pursue magic

Track 1: and yet he can't like let

Track 1: go of how this one guy does his trick and

Track 1: it's if you think about the classism angle it's

Track 1: kind of interesting because it's like no matter how rich you are

Track 1: like you can't figure out what this like kind

Track 1: of commoner is doing and yeah it's like

Track 1: oh well that that can't be why can this commoner

Track 1: outsmart me and it's just like then you know

Track 1: small falls from there it was always

Track 1: about the fact that in reality and again we

Track 1: come back to the idea of like you know the tech be like

Track 1: i can make art and it's like and they cost like

Track 1: they get so sensitive about it it's like you

Track 1: didn't make art and it's like i can

Track 1: do like i can do what that like you know modernist painter

Track 1: did my child could do this but you didn't do it you didn't do

Track 1: it and then it's the same thing because it's like what dance

Track 1: and sheer admits like basically that christian

Track 1: bell's character you know robert he's he's a better

Track 1: magician he and his weakest and that's really what it is this is about he wants

Track 1: to be better than him and the best part about all this is that Borden tells

Track 1: him the trick Borden tells him before this trick ever happens,

Track 1: before he invents the Entransported Man.

Track 1: Tells him how he does it when they go and watch the guy with the goldfish ball

Track 1: he tells him he's like, this is how he's doing it he lives that life.

Track 1: His entire thing he lives that life his entire thing is the show,

Track 1: he fucking if you're paying, like that's one thing.

Track 1: Listen, I watched this movie the first time, you know, like when it came out,

Track 1: it's all in the theaters and I loved it.

Track 1: And like, I didn't watch it. Like, like Alexa, like, and then I didn't watch it for like 20 years.

Track 1: And then we're like, we're doing the procedure. I'm like, you know what?

Track 1: Fuck. I love that movie. And I'm watching this and it all comes.

Track 1: And I was like, Holy shit.

Track 1: This movie is even better. If you know, if you already know this movie is better.

Track 1: If you already know the twist, if you know all the plot points of this movie

Track 1: and you're watching it again, it's better.

Track 1: It's even better because you're like, Oh wait, he's telling

Track 1: him when you watch that when you watch him tell him that about the

Track 1: the whatever that magician whatever

Track 1: horribly racist name yeah

Track 1: that was a pretty racist but you're you're

Track 1: totally right he that's a i mean that's also i

Track 1: think i was in my partially joking like letterboxd

Track 1: review of the film i said that sort of like the

Track 1: idea of the prestige is sort of a nod

Track 1: to christopher Olsen almost giving a nod to like how he

Track 1: crafts a movie where he is almost building

Track 1: the I mean the movie really is built in that way of the you know the three different

Track 1: you know stages of the of the trick and that's how he crafts this movie like

Track 1: expertly like not that his other movies aren't that way but I think it's how

Track 1: he does it and several times I think they kind of give away.

Track 1: Moments it I can I made it sort of like kind of like fight club once you know

Track 1: like this twist in Fight Club and then you watch it, you're seeing all these

Track 1: things like, oh, they're giving it away there and then they give it away there

Track 1: and they give it away there and it's, I think you're right Bill.

Track 1: I think the movie is so much more fun to watch when you aren't having to be

Track 1: completely fooled about what the twist is, which we will get to.

Track 1: We'll save it a little bit longer. Yeah. Barnum Bailey, Ringling Brothers Barnum

Track 1: and Bailey was an American circus.

Track 1: Okay. They went to England, but they started in 1871 right around the beginning of Vaudeville as well.

Track 1: There you go. All this is, it's all that time when all that stuff was huge.

Track 1: Yeah. I think this is the point in

Track 1: the film where I think there's a lot of interesting things to talk about.

Track 1: And especially, I've actually, I'll get to in a second. There's a book that

Track 1: I'm reading that's completely unrelated to this in every single way,

Track 1: but it talks about, it's called The Extended Universe, and it's how Disney killed

Track 1: the movies and took over the world.

Track 1: And it's a new, it hasn't come out yet. This book is coming out on Haymarket soon.

Track 1: But in it, they talk about Thomas Edison, which plays a small,

Track 1: albeit I think important role in this movie as sort of a parallel rivalry that's happening.

Track 1: So because Hugh Jackman is so, So he needs to beat him on this trick.

Track 1: He travels to Colorado Springs in the United States to meet with Nikola Tesla

Track 1: to try and get him to build him a machine, which is what he believes is how Borden does his trick.

Track 1: So he's convinced that Tesla had built him some kind of machine that enables him to do the transport.

Track 1: What's that? sorry it just like on that note

Track 1: like he believes that there has to be a machine

Track 1: he has to be working with tesla i think kind

Track 1: of again almost goes back to that like tech bro

Track 1: analogy because it's like oh there has

Track 1: like you like you know from an like you were saying from an art perspective

Track 1: like you can't just have created and thought of this beautiful painting you

Track 1: know what i mean like it's it has to be it has to be a trick it has to be like

Track 1: there's more behind it like you must have done something, all this research, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Track 1: Yeah, you can't just have worked and have talent and devote time and energy

Track 1: and effort and passion into something. No, you couldn't.

Track 1: What madman actually did?

Track 1: What's effort into things?

Track 1: Yeah. It's that you can pay for it.

Track 1: Well, I'm going to take it even a step further. So before he actually goes to meet with Tesla,

Track 1: he first brings on a body double who is obviously also played by Hugh Jackman,

Track 1: who is going to be there on the other side while he does his version of the transported man.

Track 1: And then, of course, you know, Christian Bale outs him and, you know,

Track 1: makes it makes him break his leg on the trap door and moves the anyway.

Track 1: But using the copy of himself, like the friend is almost like the idea of using A.I.

Track 1: To be like, well, I can't actually do this trick with art. I have to just copy something else.

Track 1: He literally is copying him by just finding some guy in London who looks like himself.

Track 1: And poorly compensating him. like if he like the

Track 1: reason it works with christian bale is because they're both

Track 1: they're partners they're they're both 100 in

Track 1: they are in it's both of them they are there it's egalitarian it is an egalitarian

Track 1: totally equal relationship and partnership in every way much to both of their

Track 1: detriments psychologically and emotionally deeply fucked up but like they're

Track 1: both totally in it whereas like.

Track 1: You know angiers just exploits some

Track 1: other guy like that's all you know and like

Track 1: i feel like honestly he probably could have just

Track 1: paid him yeah and then and like he has the money so like but he has tried he's

Track 1: trying to figure out a way to pay him the lease or like they could also they

Track 1: could also just let people unionize instead of paying billions of dollars to

Track 1: fight them Yeah, like the New York City nurses strike.

Track 1: Yeah, like, you know, they could also just pay people a living wage,

Track 1: but they're not going to.

Track 1: And then after that fails, he sends his own assistant, who in this is played

Track 1: by Scarlett Johansson, to spy on him, but then defects and falls in love with him.

Track 1: So everything he's doing to try and... Yeah, go ahead. No, I was just going

Track 1: to say, like, I think that the Scarlett Johansson example where he's there,

Track 1: because they're now like dating, hooking up at this point, Hugh Jackman and

Track 1: Scarlett Johansson's characters.

Track 1: But he then sends her away.

Track 1: And yeah, she falls in love with the other guy. But it's just another way that

Track 1: like, people are disposable to Hugh Jackman's character.

Track 1: Like, it's just like, oh, well, I, you are now a pawn in my game against this

Track 1: other man. And it just speaks to the callousness of the character.

Track 1: Even to the point where, you know, up until this point, he's never vocalized it.

Track 1: But, I mean, you get the impression, but when she says to him,

Track 1: let it go, he's like, it's not about my wife.

Track 1: And he he drops he he finally he drops

Track 1: that bomb he's just all it's this isn't about my life

Track 1: no no i don't care yeah and

Track 1: it's and it's like especially the way

Track 1: hugh jackman says it it's just oh it's harsh it's

Track 1: harsh it's like it's like a reaction of like

Track 1: a like you know sometimes that's internal you

Track 1: know he yeah that was not like you know like and

Track 1: kudos to to jackman like for playing that because

Track 1: like he sold that and it's just like you

Track 1: know there was no second thought there was no

Track 1: no that was internal that was an immediate

Track 1: unconscious reaction that was the truth coming

Track 1: out they said about my wife i don't fucking care yeah yeah that is true he's

Track 1: like yeah he's pretty cold like throughout the entire film and i think it like

Track 1: becomes even more present so i mentioned so he goes to colorado springs to meet

Track 1: with the call of tesla who is we kind of like learn a little bit of information

Track 1: about how Tesla is, what he's doing there.

Track 1: And I think that's where is there some other interesting sort of dynamics that's

Track 1: maybe hinted at, but not maybe as sort of the.

Track 1: Reason for the film or i don't know it just like well crafted

Track 1: into the the plot so tesla is providing power

Track 1: to this entire town in exchange for essentially being able

Track 1: to do his research there which he's apparently there

Track 1: because of like the lightning storms allows him to use all of the

Track 1: the power but there's also the same rivalry

Track 1: between tesla and thomas edison and the thing that i reason

Track 1: i mentioned that book before is something that i didn't really know i'm

Track 1: not that well versed on sort of thomas edison's beyond the

Track 1: sort of oh he's a genius and he made a bunch of inventions is that

Track 1: he is extremely important in

Track 1: the blocking and prevention of additional people

Track 1: from making films when he invented the film camera

Track 1: he would send goons to destroy anyone

Track 1: else trying to film movies and so that's why

Track 1: they film in hollywood is because they escaped to hollywood

Track 1: to be able to film movies away from him in new jersey which is where

Track 1: he was located sorry bill for new jersey and

Track 1: is a is a shithole because of because of

Track 1: edison's legacy that's why it's the it's the curse

Track 1: of thomas edison sorry people who live in edison right and so like one sucks

Track 1: damn but but like what i think is important about that rivalry is that we later

Track 1: see thomas edison wants to essentially like destroy tesla's factory and what

Track 1: made me think about it was that he's offering power to this town for free.

Track 1: And why, how dare someone do that when we could be charging the town for power,

Track 1: or we could be doing something else to profit off of them.

Track 1: And I think that there's, it's very much part of the narrative of the.

Track 1: You know, this being an illusion for capitalism. And then also just the,

Track 1: the nature of, you know, Hugh Jackman's character being this capitalist type person.

Track 1: Well, we learned later he is more of a capitalist type person, but I don't know.

Track 1: Maybe I'm making too much of it, but I almost, I would now need to see a movie

Track 1: about like a Thomas Edison versus Nikola Tesla.

Track 1: Yeah. I mean, I'm.

Track 1: Very much paraphrasing here in my historical knowledge

Track 1: but edison was basically like

Track 1: a cruel bully i think he stole a lot of his inventions

Track 1: from his employees or other people

Track 1: and so i don't know what he was

Track 1: actually responsible for but then like in

Track 1: when i think the scene is somewhere around

Track 1: this point in the movie but christian bale's character goes

Track 1: to the tesla convention or whatever the world

Track 1: the world fair yeah and then the tesla's assistant

Track 1: is like oh well edison is is trying

Track 1: to say that you know alternating current is.

Track 1: Is so dangerous which was true like edison

Track 1: would go around he electrocuted an elephant electrocuted an

Track 1: elephant yeah because he was trying to say that tesla's

Track 1: alternating current was more dangerous than his direct

Track 1: current so yeah Edison sucks

Track 1: and then I believe Tesla

Track 1: was also working on like they they

Track 1: have Hugh Jackman's character walking around and and

Track 1: like there's the spark things and he's not getting like electrocuted I

Track 1: think Tesla was working on like wireless energy distribution

Track 1: in his lifetime which would have if you know

Track 1: we could have continued that would have been a completely different thing than

Track 1: what we have so that the colorado

Track 1: springs laboratory that is historic fact

Track 1: so yeah tesla did that

Track 1: is called the tesla experimental station it was in colorado springs and he specifically

Track 1: went there to perform experiments on wireless wireless energy transmission in

Track 1: low pressure areas because of the height it was at it was a high altitude location

Track 1: It was an high frequency experimentation.

Track 1: It possessed the largest Tesla coil of a built 49.25 feet in diameter,

Track 1: uh, which was a preliminary version of the magnifying transmission,

Track 1: uh, later planned for installation in the warden cliff tower. Um, um,

Track 1: He was not only wireless energy, but also wireless telegraphy.

Track 1: Um, he planned to conduct experiments to conduct wireless messages from Pike's peak to Paris.

Track 1: Um, he did like, he powered college things.

Track 1: He provided, like he set up the lighting, all that shit, like produce artificial lighting.

Track 1: And they at one point

Track 1: they said that like so sparks sprang

Track 1: from waterline taps when touched light bulbs within 100 feet

Track 1: of the lab glowed even when turned off um

Track 1: when he experimented yeah

Track 1: like all this stuff like yeah he the pikes

Track 1: peak the colorado station that is all historical fact

Track 1: that's why he went there to all that stuff seen with

Track 1: the light bulbs in the snow is like one of the coolest shots maybe in

Track 1: the entire film like i remember when the movie was like the tree

Track 1: watch the trailer they show that briefly and you're like what does this have

Track 1: to do with the movie but you're like oh that's i i don't care it doesn't matter

Track 1: because it's gorgeous i think actually i should have mentioned this earlier

Track 1: but the opening shot with all the hats that you see and like that's how the

Track 1: movie starts and then you're like wait what is going on here.

Track 1: Yeah it's again one of those things where they give away something very important

Track 1: but you're not And like literally Michael Caine's thing is like,

Track 1: are you paying attention?

Track 1: It's like, like, yes, but no, I'm not, you know, like, you know,

Track 1: it's, you're not, it's, it's just like how they talk about the trick is it doesn't matter what you do.

Track 1: It's how you make it look like the, the dressing it up or the,

Track 1: which I think what they also said earlier is that Christian Bale wasn't a good

Track 1: showman, but he was a better at like crafting tricks. Yeah.

Track 1: Yeah, and then, oh, go ahead. And by the way, Tesla was played by the late David

Track 1: Bowie, and according to the story I saw was that he said no to being in the movie,

Track 1: and then Chris Van Ollen flew out to London to see him.

Track 1: And it didn't beg him, but basically it's like, I really need you to be in this

Track 1: film. It can't be anyone else. And David Bowie was like, I see you're really

Track 1: passionate about this. All right, I'll do it.

Track 1: So that's why he ended up in this movie. He's a great Tesla.

Track 1: He is. Yeah. Really good. Um, Edison did steal most shit and he specifically, he specifically,

Track 1: like it is a well-documented, you know, that he specifically bullied and stole a lot of Tesla stuff.

Track 1: This Tesla died, broke in an apartment. Like I think in like,

Track 1: I think possibly the Bronx or Brooklyn. I don't remember exactly where.

Track 1: At a hotel, I think. Yeah. In a hotel. Yeah. died broke in a hotel room. And I think the...

Track 1: The most important part about Tesla's character in this and the juxtaposition

Track 1: of him to Edison, and to be fair, Edison did not burn down his Pike's Peak,

Track 1: the Colorado Springs lab.

Track 1: He was sued for unpaid bills. Yes, he would have.

Track 1: Tesla was sued for unpaid bills because Tesla was fucking poor.

Track 1: Because all of his inventions were actually still most of his inventions that

Track 1: made money were stolen by by us um but he serves the perfect juxtaposition to

Track 1: edison in that like and he makes this point throughout it that basically like,

Track 1: tesla is the creative energy he is he represents that like energy of like and they just like,

Track 1: even when he's like, when he talks about how the machine doesn't do what it's

Track 1: supposed to do. And he's like, that's the beauty of it.

Track 1: Sometimes he's like science. He's like, it just does, you know,

Track 1: does other things. He's like, that's the beauty of it.

Track 1: And whereas Edison really stands for the commodification of creativity,

Track 1: the commodification of the creative energy and the theft of creative,

Track 1: creative energy by the capitals class.

Track 1: And it's like Tesla, but Tesla and Edison are Angiers and important. Like they are.

Track 1: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah, I feel like with Edison, too,

Track 1: I like on that kind of commodity commoditization, if I'm saying it right.

Track 1: But I'm pretty sure that like he had like a bunch of engineers that worked underneath him.

Track 1: And then any of the good ideas were basically then attributed to Edison.

Track 1: Yeah, that's the way it works now.

Track 1: Yeah. And it's like, whereas Tesla was like dreaming of these impossible things

Track 1: for, and then making them happen, you know, like, and yeah.

Track 1: But for humanity, not for himself.

Track 1: Exactly. Yeah, and that's why they went after him. You know,

Track 1: I mean, it's, it's, I mean, that's why I think the analogy to the two,

Track 1: like the two magicians is so perfect is that, you know, Angier,

Track 1: Hugh Jackman doesn't want to do anything for people.

Track 1: He's doing it for his own personal profit. Whereas, you know.

Track 1: Borden just wants to entertain people and like make people wonder,

Track 1: like, how did you do that?

Track 1: And that's what people look at when they see light bulbs sitting in the snow

Track 1: and then he lifts them up.

Track 1: I think that's why Hugh Jackman is so like stunned by the things that he's creating

Track 1: is because he'd never actually seen someone who actually was like creatively

Track 1: creating something except for, you know, Borden in this case,

Track 1: because it just, it's the same thing.

Track 1: There's something else i was going to mention about it well i

Track 1: think oh well the one of the things that so the other

Track 1: half of my like serious and joking

Track 1: letterbox review was that in addition to being about like christopher nolan's

Track 1: films it's also about just the idea of you know the what's the word i'm thinking

Track 1: of at the moment i can't think of it industrialization and just like the ability

Track 1: to mass produce mass commodity mass produce commodities and or commodify all.

Track 1: I'm not saying exactly right. But Tesla, when he's creating the machine,

Track 1: to me, he's creating the ability to mass produce goods.

Track 1: And he even says to him, like, you know, I'll give you this machine.

Track 1: But like, you have to understand the cost that this is going to unleash upon the world.

Track 1: And, you know, Hugh Jackman is like, I don't give a shit.

Track 1: I want this machine. I need to be the best, which is how all,

Track 1: you know, capitalists think. It doesn't matter what the cost of the environmental

Track 1: cost, any of the human cost doesn't matter. And so that to me was sort of the.

Track 1: And I think it's also like a machine that can do incredible things that could

Track 1: actually be very useful for society.

Track 1: And then instead he only uses it to win his like rivalry.

Track 1: He could put food inside of there and feed people. Like I think about that.

Track 1: Like put a whole thing of food.

Track 1: Yeah. It's Elon Musk and going to Mars.

Track 1: I have enough money. I can go, I can make, I can make a colony on Mars.

Track 1: It's a fun space trip. It's like, motherfucker, you can solve homelessness.

Track 1: Just, just do that.

Track 1: Feed people.

Track 1: It's like, why does it? Yeah. Like, why does it have to be this big fancy thing?

Track 1: Like, yeah. Dudes like to solve the problem.

Track 1: Yeah. It's, it's always the thing. It's like, you know, it's always the question

Track 1: of, it's like, I have all this and I could do this thing that serves no purpose other than to,

Track 1: maintain the status quo and keep me where I am.

Track 1: And also further elevate my status.

Track 1: Or I could just feed everybody. Well, why would I do that? Why would I do that?

Track 1: So just, you know, I do think that because if you haven't seen the movie,

Track 1: first of all, if you haven't seen the movie, why the fuck are you listening to this?

Track 1: We didn't give away the big twist. But yeah, but we kind of need to right now.

Track 1: We kind of need to. That's my point.

Track 1: That's where I'm going. Okay. So, if you haven't watched the movie,

Track 1: unless you want to have it all spelled right now, I can duck out and go watch the movie.

Track 1: So, he goes to Tesla because he's convinced it's not a double.

Track 1: And Tesla's machine, he convinces Tesla to make him a teleportation machine.

Track 1: But in fact, he's not making a teleportation machine. What the machine actually

Track 1: does is perfectly recreate whatever is put into it.

Track 1: It makes a perfect duplicate including

Track 1: living breathing conscious sage sentient sapient

Track 1: life forms much and then two further why yes it's just a double borden is just

Track 1: using a double it's just his twin brother that's all it is it's just his brother

Track 1: that's it that's the whole thing yeah we well i mean.

Track 1: I think it's so interesting because like we get the clues like he's using a

Track 1: double like the clues with the magician the wife who talks about him being you

Track 1: know you love me today you don't know tomorrow you may not.

Track 1: Scarlett Johansson's character too like she seems to be in love with the other one guy.

Track 1: And also like Christian Bale I mean you can tell like they're two.

Track 1: Twins they're playing they're basically living the same life

Track 1: and that's really the the big part of

Track 1: it is not just that they're twins but that they are twins living

Track 1: one life there is no they live the act they

Track 1: live the act the weird thing that they also say that i didn't i noticed it this

Track 1: time this is i actually watched this like maybe a year and a half ago for the

Track 1: first time and this is the second time since the theater they also doesn't scarlett

Track 1: johansson and them call them Alfred and Freddy like don't they refer to them as different names.

Track 1: She calls him she calls him Freddy but then the wife calls him Alfred right,

Track 1: yeah I think that was more like a familiarity thing because okay like she the

Track 1: wife was mad because Scarlett Johansson was calling him Freddy like very familiarly

Track 1: and she was like they're having an affair okay they were but brother were but

Track 1: weren't But at the same time,

Track 1: like there's no excusing, like there's no excusing either of these, either of the men,

Track 1: like they're both committing emotional and physical, like adultery.

Track 1: Like at one point you kind of want to be like, oh, but you know,

Track 1: but it's like, he's still participating in the mind fucking of this woman.

Track 1: Well, that's the thing that drives me insane because, like, so you realize that

Track 1: it's the two of them, the twins living one life.

Track 1: And, you know, as the movie progresses, I think her name's Sarah, the wife.

Track 1: Yes. But she, like, gets more and more depressed and starts drinking because

Track 1: she can't deal with, like, her husband seeming to be two different people.

Track 1: And like they talk about you know that they talk about at the end and it's like

Track 1: oh well you know sometimes I was with Sarah and sometimes I was with the other

Track 1: person and all this stuff and it's like,

Track 1: Okay, well, one easy fix for this is, like, just have the one that loves Sarah

Track 1: be the one that hangs out with Sarah.

Track 1: Like, why do you even have the other twin do it? Yeah.

Track 1: Like, and this is what I mean. Because you've got to live the act. Yeah.

Track 1: But I feel like this makes me really hate Christian Bale. Oh, 100%. Her characters.

Track 1: Absolutely. They like as much as Q Jackman's character is so annoying because

Track 1: it's like you are this rich man obsessed with winning something that like I

Track 1: think is basically like Christian Bale was willing to go the mile to live that act for so long.

Track 1: And Q Jackman couldn't wrap his mind around it. I think he just couldn't like

Track 1: like understand why anyone would actually go to those lengths sort of like,

Track 1: you know, like an actual artist would would go to these lengths to make art.

Track 1: But then Christian Bale's character is also just so obsessed within their own

Track 1: weird little dynamic of like we both get to like he he we both get to play like

Track 1: the guy that you are literally having all of your deteriorate relationships

Track 1: deteriorate around you and like actively hurting people.

Track 1: And it's like, you could have done this so much better.

Track 1: But I do think that that still comes back to a class analysis in which like

Track 1: Christian Bell looked at the privation and horrors of the world around him that

Track 1: he had the misfortune of,

Track 1: you know, like, or not even the misfortune, but just like random chance being

Track 1: born into and saw a way to succeed.

Track 1: Saw a way to provide for himself and his family and then took that.

Track 1: And then what, what happens? It's like, you are, you know, when you participate

Track 1: in the system, you are alienated from yourself. Like we are literally watching.

Track 1: This is like the physical like manifestation of alienation in that,

Track 1: like this is one person split into two

Track 1: people who are like constantly like they can't

Track 1: even relate to each other they can't relate to the the people

Track 1: they love and the people they that they live with their family their wife their

Track 1: daughter or niece or you know later on um i cannot remember scarl johansson's

Track 1: character's name her like can't live it fully olivia can't fully connect with olivia Why?

Track 1: Because your life is forced to becoming, like your entire self is fractured

Track 1: by being forced to participate in a system that does not allow you to be a whole person.

Track 1: You are broken.

Track 1: Capitalism breaks people.

Track 1: Yeah. I like that a lot. But I also feel like- But also, yeah,

Track 1: he's also a terrible person.

Track 1: Yeah, no. He's still a terrible person. No. I'm not, I'm not excusing him.

Track 1: I am providing a material analysis to why that happened.

Track 1: He's still a terrible person. Like, there is like, and at one point,

Track 1: like you, like Fallon, like.

Track 1: Fallon is presented as the innocent in so many ways because he's almost kept

Track 1: separate until the very end.

Track 1: He's, you know, until the very end, Fallon is kept separate even after you know

Track 1: that they're the same person.

Track 1: He still is like kept at arm's length and it's like the, he's like the sullied innocence.

Track 1: But at the end you're still like you can't help

Track 1: like he's still fucking he he still

Track 1: did all that like it's like fuck man

Track 1: like this fucked up but what's so crazy is

Track 1: that at some point earlier scarlett johansson's like you know

Track 1: tells hugh jackman like he has a bunch of you know costume stuff

Track 1: around but they that like he's and he's like they're the

Track 1: same person and he's like uh no way you know he just

Track 1: left it out for you to find you know and yeah like and

Track 1: that's the thing too is that it's ben i feel like

Track 1: it's like like and jeer is just

Track 1: like he can't wrap his head around the fact that somebody

Track 1: would go to these lengths because he has never

Track 1: had to do that in his entire life he's never he

Track 1: doesn't even know anyone in his social circle that's had to do

Track 1: that it's like you've just always had been provided for

Track 1: you always have means and resources and you

Track 1: art force to get your hands dirty which is

Track 1: in and of itself a way in which capitalism

Track 1: robs the capitalist class of the human experience like i hate to like give capitalists

Track 1: any fucking credit okay but they are not whole people either they have been robbed of um.

Track 1: Vital aspects of humanity like the

Track 1: striving and the passion and

Track 1: you look at a thing and you're like you know

Track 1: i i need to do this you

Track 1: know like i i need to pour my soul into this thing you know

Track 1: like as a writer and like a

Track 1: person that has like spent my almost my entire life like in creative endeavors

Track 1: like watching people try to justify use ai and like motherfucking you you don't

Track 1: get it do you like you don't understand and it's the same thing with it's like

Track 1: Christian Bale is doing it for

Track 1: the love of the game like he's doing it for the love of the game like he

Track 1: loves this shit he loves it I think that makes,

Track 1: It makes Hugh Jackman or him so jealous because he doesn't seemingly love anything

Track 1: as much as Christian Bale could love this.

Track 1: And I think we're talking about he wants to be the best, but I think if anything,

Track 1: it's like jealousy above all else is what he has.

Track 1: Despite the fact that we learn later that he's actually Lord Caldwell,

Track 1: who's the one who's sending the solicitor to Christian Bale in prison,

Track 1: is going to adopt his daughter and give her a good life.

Track 1: He's like a billion, I don't know how many, he's an enormous- He's a thousander.

Track 1: A thousander, yeah, whatever. He's got lots of money.

Track 1: But there is, what's great about this movie is once you find sort of the twist,

Track 1: there's still like maybe 30 minutes left in the movie.

Track 1: Shut up. Like, what's going to happen now? And then it just becomes to the point

Track 1: where the ending is great. I mean, we can talk about the ending, too.

Track 1: What's that? Truly macabre. Yeah. Yes.

Track 1: That was the ending. It was the thing that I absolutely remembered, and it stuck in my brain.

Track 1: Yeah, it's chilling. The blind stagehands?

Track 1: Yeah, so for anyone, again, we've already spoiled the- So creepy. Whoa.

Track 1: We've already spoiled the big twist, but it gets

Track 1: even further where you learn that every time that

Track 1: christian bale is doing the disappearing man

Track 1: and so he he buys out the theater for like

Track 1: 100 performances and then he's going to retire he's going to

Track 1: be huge sorry i keep doing huge jackman i should just go by their name the state

Track 1: name but robert angier is going to do the his trick for a you know for 100 days

Track 1: and he's going to retire because now he's the best he can walk away saying he's

Track 1: the greatest magician he's doing this trick and we learn that each time he's duplicating himself,

Track 1: he's dropping the duplicate into a,

Track 1: a tank of water it's locked up

Track 1: they let him drown and then as you said these blind men

Track 1: move the tank at the end of the night to some facility where

Track 1: they just like essentially have a long hallway filled with

Track 1: you know dead bodies inside of tanks which

Track 1: also very strange like the company who makes these tanks is clearly able to

Track 1: make this many tanks i don't know that too i was like okay i know he's got a

Track 1: lot of money but like how how do you get all these tanks like who's like why

Track 1: not just get rid of the body and like put the tank back and reuse it because

Track 1: then he would have to face it.

Track 1: Okay you're right he doesn't he doesn't look at it you're right

Track 1: because that's why he's a lineman and he calls he says in

Track 1: the end when you know christian bell says like you finally got your hands dirty

Track 1: and hugh jackman says like he did but he doesn't he doesn't he's not getting

Track 1: his hands dirty and he's still not making any actual sacrifices yeah like because in the end he's just...

Track 1: In his like mind he's just

Track 1: throwing away duplicate like

Track 1: and he and he never confronts it he just hides it

Track 1: away and i think it's really interesting because at one point

Track 1: he's saying jackman is saying like um

Track 1: i never know if i'm gonna wake up in the tank or

Track 1: you know at the prestige but i

Track 1: was like you always wake up

Track 1: in the prestige because otherwise you'd be in the tank like

Track 1: some part of you is experience or i don't

Track 1: know how it would work you know if you're what one conscious

Track 1: mind that remembers everything you did or just a

Track 1: yeah they don't ever copy which i think

Track 1: is sort of an interesting philosophical discussion but it

Track 1: really like it's always you who ends

Track 1: up in the prestige because you're standing here right now if it

Track 1: wasn't then you would be dead and so that's yeah like

Track 1: i think it's there's almost like he's like

Track 1: yeah there's so much danger i'm i'm doing so

Track 1: much but he's not and and even more

Track 1: so like he's not even dealing with the bodies he's just hiding them in this

Track 1: abandoned theater that i guess he now owns or something yeah and he he makes

Track 1: that choice to do that because early on michael kane's character says i met

Track 1: a man who once almost drowned.

Track 1: What was it like he said it was like coming home

Track 1: and then at the end he goes remember that

Track 1: tory i told you he actually said it was the most agonizing experience

Track 1: of his life so he has

Track 1: managed to completely ignore and just you know hand wave away and almost like

Track 1: like you know what it's the drowning actually it feels fucking great like you

Track 1: know i'm doing them a favor.

Track 1: And part of the thing that maybe is worth mentioning, when he's doing the trick

Track 1: with the body, like the double of him, the thing that he's so mad about in that

Track 1: trick and why he won't pay them is because he's under the stage and he doesn't get the applause.

Track 1: He doesn't get the adulation of all the people adoring his trick.

Track 1: It's the double who does it. And with this trick, he gets to be up on the stage

Track 1: or on the balcony where, you know, they see him reappear.

Track 1: And like he actually gets it he doesn't care about all the

Track 1: the dead himself swimming in little tanks

Track 1: because he gets the cheers and like that's all that

Track 1: he cares about and it's just it reminds me of like a certain you

Track 1: know owner of twitter who just just desperately wants

Track 1: people to like him and i think that's also at the heart of this he just

Track 1: desperately wants attention yeah well i think

Track 1: isn't one of the last lines like you

Track 1: know if you can fool them even for a second like it's

Track 1: like yeah and i thought that was

Track 1: interesting because it just speaks to yeah exactly like he

Track 1: just wants the attention he wants the adulation he wants like the the ability

Track 1: to fool people and it's just something so egotistical and and like sinister

Track 1: about that where it's like oh it's just all for this for.

Track 1: To get this adulations from everyone else. And it's, there's no like intrinsic motivation.

Track 1: It's all just like, how will the outside recognize me?

Track 1: I do appreciate though, that separately, that Michael Caine sort of realizes,

Track 1: you know, cause he's a smart guy.

Track 1: He realizes what he's, what he's done and helps Christian Bale essentially,

Track 1: you know, kill him at the end, you know, and it's, you know, it's, it's weird.

Track 1: He gets his, you know come up in sujag when he dies at

Track 1: the end christian bale one version

Track 1: of him lives you know the the the i guess

Track 1: they're both magicians but the the nice one lives yes

Track 1: the nice one i guess lives and you know but he also loses half of himself and

Track 1: he's also lost his wife they both lost their wives so nothing he may win by

Track 1: having his daughter but like does he really win you know at the end? No. No.

Track 1: Also, he's still a bad person. Yeah. He's still a bad person.

Track 1: That was one thing because when they're dragging off the twin to execute him,

Track 1: because the Christian Bale bad twin gets executed,

Track 1: as he's being pulled away, he's like, sorry about Sarah.

Track 1: And that was one thing, too, where I was like, if you're the what I'll call the good twin,

Track 1: like I would be absolutely furious that like my twin compatriot like basically

Track 1: like drove my wife to kill herself.

Track 1: But then again, it goes backwards. But they both did, right?

Track 1: Yeah, they both did. He is complicit in that action.

Track 1: Exactly. like it's like again like there could

Track 1: have you could have dealt even with this whole situation of

Track 1: living as one life you could have been able to like at least

Track 1: try I mean you could just torture your wife but he also drives away

Track 1: Scarlett Johansson like each drive away like their own

Track 1: love right interest so but you're

Track 1: even in some way what I think is how's it

Track 1: going I think like the thank you I think the thing with

Track 1: Scarlett Johansson is interesting because he's based because

Track 1: like it's the the bad twin trying

Track 1: to live his life because he goes you know it's like

Track 1: a week or a few days after sarah dies the

Track 1: wife and they're hanging out and he doesn't care because

Track 1: he never loved her and he's almost trying to express that

Track 1: and like have you almost have more of his individuality and then scarlett johansson

Track 1: rejects him for it because she's like no you have you're completely unfeeling

Track 1: you know the fact that you don't care about this and so i thought that was kind

Track 1: of interesting just in the way that it was like, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Track 1: Like, you know, you can't pretend that you, this wasn't part of your life when

Track 1: you're living this life as one person. Yeah.

Track 1: But I think, I think the most important part of the final scene with Alfred Borden and Fallon.

Track 1: Is the fact that Alfred Borden clearly did love the daughter and was distraught

Track 1: over what would happen to her.

Track 1: And I think that that is the key. And that is really the thing that shows how,

Track 1: like, what is robbed from people in this, in the system.

Track 1: Like, that's the, that's the part.

Track 1: That's the key. They both, they both deeply love that little girl.

Track 1: And they wanted her to be happy and cared for.

Track 1: And they very much cared about her.

Track 1: And I really feel like that that is the key to the whole thing.

Track 1: That's like, makes it clear like what this does to people because they,

Track 1: they both, you know, at its heart.

Track 1: We should all be able to, we should be able to have that love and care for everybody in our life.

Track 1: And yet that has been taken away and it's been shattered and they've been unable

Track 1: to fully do that for like, for other people.

Track 1: And it's like, but in that you see that glimpse of it.

Track 1: That's, that's been taken away from them. yeah and what's

Track 1: what's also at the interesting about that

Track 1: last scene too is when he when he

Track 1: finally realizes that the the lord is hugh

Track 1: jackman and he hands him the actually how

Track 1: he did the trick with like the twin brother he doesn't even look he just rips

Track 1: up the paper and throw it like sprinkles it through the you know the prison

Track 1: and like he doesn't care anymore about his trick because he has his daughter

Track 1: he has his fame he has he has everything at this point he has what he thinks

Track 1: is the guy behind bars and he'll, you know,

Track 1: die for his, for his death and thinks he's going to get away.

Track 1: And then, you know, when you see him, then follow him afterwards,

Track 1: you know, into the theater and, you know, does that final scene.

Track 1: It's just, you can't still, but help, but feel glad that Hugh Jackman just gets

Track 1: shot and burned to death.

Track 1: Yeah. Yeah. Though also just one like question I had on this was like he seemed

Track 1: like he was basically willing to...

Track 1: Bale was willing to give up his greatest treasure, which is the secret that

Track 1: he has been literally living this one life as two people.

Track 1: And he was willing to give it up for his daughter, which I think speaks to that

Track 1: idea of like the thing that you most treasure, that's most important to you or most valuable to you.

Track 1: And then having to give it up because you can't find any other way to like have

Track 1: the means and ability to care for your family or the people you really care

Track 1: about and at the same time i was like,

Track 1: why there's another one out there like why is he so worried like couldn't the

Track 1: other guy do it i mean i don't know it sounded like they were like they were

Track 1: victorian laws because they talked about I think the poor ass. Yeah.

Track 1: But, uh, well, they said like, I'm blanking on the work house.

Track 1: Sorry, not the boss, the work house, but like the trick master guy that I'm doing.

Track 1: Yes. Michael Caine. Yes. Thank you.

Track 1: So Michael Caine, they, I think they were saying like he was too old,

Track 1: so they wouldn't let her go with him or something like that.

Track 1: Or maybe they were saying that about Fallon, but like, that was also a little bit confusing for me.

Track 1: Cause I was like, you literally have a twin like why can't he just take her

Track 1: and like go move I think he like basically doesn't exist.

Track 1: Which they previously like earlier on when like he's like Angier's talking about

Track 1: it's basically like Fallon doesn't exist like he doesn't exist on paper which to be fair honestly,

Track 1: in 1890 like no one did like there were people who literally there were people

Track 1: in like who literally made to living, murdering people in towns,

Track 1: collecting life insurance, then moving to the next town and doing it again.

Track 1: So, you know, I'm sure they could have like, I'm sure they could have done something. I mean.

Track 1: Records were not they were not top notch back then unless you were like a lord

Track 1: like you know the other guy of course then your entire life is based on your

Track 1: birth you know record everybody else they didn't really give a fuck yeah.

Track 1: Oh man did Alexa or Bill either have any last thoughts on the film or anything

Track 1: we know we didn't cover yeah,

Track 1: I basically one thing that I just really liked about the film,

Track 1: and this doesn't really have to do anything with leftist politics,

Track 1: but I did really like so when they go to Tesla and then he makes the machine

Track 1: and I think Hugh Jackman and Michael Caine's characters are like, he can do real magic.

Track 1: Like this idea of like

Track 1: real like he that technology is the

Track 1: real magic i would i just got really excited when

Track 1: i saw that part because um i

Track 1: don't know for me i think that is kind of what magic is

Track 1: like obviously not necessarily illusion magic and

Track 1: things like that but like i feel like

Track 1: magic is the thing is the science we haven't discovered yet

Track 1: and the explanation that we haven't discovered yet and actually

Track 1: so i'm buddhist my i'm born and raised buddhist i

Track 1: practice every day and they say enlightenment

Track 1: is understanding the true nature of all phenomena and so i kind of feel like

Track 1: magic is basically like our understanding through enlightenment and it's kind

Track 1: of that in-between space um and i just i don't know i just thought it was interesting

Track 1: and cool because i do feel like.

Track 1: Um there is magic in the world and

Track 1: beauty and splendor and all these cool things and

Track 1: it's also just really interesting to try to like learn about it and understand

Track 1: it and figure it out and then maybe interpret it in a way where you could have

Track 1: wireless electricity and machines that make doubles and all that i think that's

Track 1: such an interesting like such an interesting like,

Track 1: take on that like it's such an interesting interpretation especially because

Track 1: like when i think of it like tesla to me like.

Track 1: Tesla himself is like what to me is like, they're like, Oh, he does real magic.

Track 1: And it's like, but to me, it's like what it really is like for like Tesla.

Track 1: It's like Tesla is magic because he sees the beauty of possibility.

Track 1: Like it's about Tesla as a person being, seeing that potential,

Track 1: seeing that beauty and want, and like wanting it out of like.

Track 1: But in a pure, innocent like sense

Track 1: not in a self-serving sense and

Track 1: like for purely for the sake of like discovery like

Track 1: very much like in like star trek as a

Track 1: star trek fan when there is an episode a

Track 1: very famous episode when they like rescue and it's

Track 1: also they do it they do one of the movies too where they basically get like

Track 1: something like from like old time they've been like suspended whatever

Track 1: and it's like well why do you do you don't need money why do

Track 1: you do it it's like be for for the better of of ourselves and like

Track 1: that's what tesla like this is like i do this because

Track 1: this is beautiful and i want to you know like that's the

Track 1: magic and yeah it's yeah i think

Track 1: it's awesome absolutely i mean i think it goes to

Track 1: like tesla being the real artist right like it has like the vision and wants

Track 1: to create this beauty and create these magical things and also like is is not

Track 1: swept up in the capitalist idea of commoditizing and commercializing and how

Track 1: am I going to make money at this it's just about,

Track 1: like the love of the game you know he wanted to create world peace like that

Track 1: was like his goal he wanted to create,

Track 1: through technology he wanted to create world peace.

Track 1: One day tesla speaking though even like um with you know like tech bros kind of.

Track 1: Just co-opting things or stealing things i

Track 1: mean that's like what elon musk did with

Track 1: tesla 100 is so cool

Track 1: and then now it's like this terrible company yeah

Track 1: yeah you talk about tesla the

Track 1: man you're like wait do you mean that shitty car like no

Track 1: you just keep the tesla just keeps getting fucked by tech

Track 1: bros like literally the guy had

Track 1: to die poor in a hotel in you know new york city and

Track 1: now they're just we're just you know we're just laughing at

Track 1: his grave when we should be celebrating him so bad

Track 1: it's so bad yeah well

Track 1: i don't i don't i don't have any more poetic ending for that but i can i can

Track 1: leave it there but alexa thank you so much for coming on everyone should check

Track 1: out your page as well so that they can learn things to buy that are not owned

Track 1: by evil tech bros would be a good start.

Track 1: Put all the contacts for that, of course, in the show notes.

Track 1: So if you check out the show notes, all the ways to check out Alex's work will

Track 1: be in the show notes for you to follow through.

Track 1: And I'll just give a little shout out because by the time this airs,

Track 1: I will have formally launched my website, which is just cutoffthespigot.com.

Track 1: And you can go there and you know if you go to the articles page you can search

Track 1: for whatever you're trying to find and it makes everything a lot easier than

Track 1: digging through a bunch of Instagram videos so.

Track 1: Excellent awesome well Alexa thank you so much for being on and for everyone

Track 1: listening to Left of the Objector you can also go to our website leftoftheobjector.com

Track 1: and listen to any number of episodes on many different films and we will catch

Track 1: you next time Have a good night, everybody.