Gen Z gets a bad rap for being lazy, but they're actually the most entrepreneurial generation we've ever had. Calle Foster, a leadership coach who spent 12 years in corporate learning and development, explains why that stereotype is costing you as a leader.

The real issue? It's how we're leading them. Gen Z was raised in a very different world than previous generations, and that context shaped how they show up at work. When leaders come at them with command and control, they shut down. They internalize it as their fault. They need guides, not controllers.

Calle talks about what Gen Z actually responds to: psychological safety, questions instead of orders, and understanding the why behind the work. She also addresses generational trauma—how silence about bodies, fertility, and mental health gets passed down through families and how we can break that cycle.

We also dig into how this applies to medicine and residency training, parenting Gen Z kids, and building teams where multiple generations actually respect each other instead of denigrating one another.

Highlights:

• Gen Z shuts down under command and control. Telling is yelling.
• Gen Z expects emotional availability from leaders because that's how they were parented by Gen X.
• Vulnerability from leaders creates safety for everyone on the team.
• Generational silence about bodies and fertility gets passed down.
• Gen Z has emotional language that's a strength, not a weakness.
• If women aren't building AI algorithms, we're automating bias into healthcare.

If you're a parent, a manager, or an attending working with Gen Z, this episode is for you. The way you lead and communicate shapes how the next generation shows up. My goal is to give you tools to understand your body, your hormones, your relationships—and how to build teams and families where people feel safe enough to actually speak.

If you've found this conversation helpful, please subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. And if you're in a leadership position, consider where you might shift from command and control to coaching.

Get in touch with Calle:

Website

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Get in Touch with Me:

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Substack

OBGYN sexual medicine specialist, menopause specialist, and founder of the GYN and Sexual Medicine Collective. Today's conversation I'm super excited about. I've been thinking about this for a while actually. And so when I ran into Callia like last month or something, it was very striking to me. I mean, and try to understand some of the work she does that, like you know, generational shifts are happening in workplaces and other places.

But really even how we think about our bodies and what our boundaries are and and how we talk about hormones and our mental health. and so you know, I feel like there's millennial women who are having conversations about burnout and ADHD and libido online, and then, you know, we have our Gen X and and some millennials that are going through perimetopause, menopause, Gen Z, you know, the new lingos that we're learning out there about boundaries and and mental health stuff.

There's so much to to unpack here, but I found it very obvious actually recently when I watched the Scrubs reboot, because this is I think what I brought up with you. And I'm getting to your introduction, but when I watched the Scrubs reboot, I was it was so it it captured it so well. It captured everything about generational difference as well. And so when I ran into Cali last month at Dr. Natalie Crawford's event, it was so awesome to hear the work she's doing.

So I love what she does. She's been she spent more than a decade incorporating incorporating learning and development in leading and training people across hundreds of retail locations and now helps to organize and helps organizations and leaders understand how generational context shapes workplace behavior, communication, leadership, and culture. and what I love about her work is that it's just not about generational stereotypes, but looking at the cultural environments that shape them. Wait, does it say that we're

Like what does that mean? Okay, anyway. Okay. Yeah, okay, yeah. All right, fair. Like I said, the platform looks different today. Anyway, back to the thing. Carrie just bleeped that out. Anyway. All right. So generations really just don't inherit music and and fashion, but they inherit like

I don't know. I don't see that. But it says that we're recording at the top. There's like a red icon, so.

Yeah.

survival strategies and how we do things through the workplace and so I want to get right into it. So Callie Foster, welcome to Guy No Girl Presents Sex, Drugs and Hormones. So excited to have you

I am so excited to be here. have to tell you, it's so funny because I felt like when we ran into each other last month, it was a little bit kismet because there were several things that I feel like brought us together and there's lots of, we've met before in a couple of different environments. And the first time that I met you was because you were creating this really safe, intimate space for.

Yeah.

Yeah.

you know, it was maybe like 10 millennial and Gen Z women to just talk about like our bodies and what we were experiencing and get some like sex med, you know, like support and just like, I was so I valued that space so much because I have found that I am that person for my friends. And I love doing that and being that but I also am not

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well yeah.

in the medical field. So I don't have the answers. I just do the research. And so going and hearing you speak to this group was incredibly powerful for me. I thought it was really fun to, I don't know if you remember, I was the first one to bring up a personal example. And it opened, it opened the space for the rest of the women to start jumping in and sharing their experience. And so I just so appreciate you for creating that container.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I do remember I just the whole discussion. Yeah.

Yeah.

No, of course. well, I you know, I I was so intrigued to learn some of the stuff that you're doing actually and find it to be something that most workplace most people would find very interesting, I think, because most of us talk like about you know, they're different generations. And if you're from one generation, you're usually like denigrating another generation. My generation was so much better than your generation.

Yes.

But like tell me like I'm a guy and a girl, I love a good backstory. Tell me what brought you into this space, you know, how you decided to like, you know, navigate like this, like was there something like what what yeah, what what inspired you to say this is something that there's a needier that's not getting filled, and I'm the person to fill it.

Yeah.

my gosh, totally. Thanks for asking. So I was in corporate learning and development for about 12 years. I was leading teams and putting together strategies around training and facilitation and professional development for a pretty large organization. And I fell in love with creating those safe containers where I found that people were like opening up about things that they typically didn't outwork.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. No, that's me. Yeah.

that's posted on Instagram, I'm like, check, check, check. Yeah, exactly. And when I started sharing what I do in networking circles, saying, you know, I support millennial and Gen Z individuals as they sort of like ascend in their professional journey, people would respond to the Gen Z part immediately. Gen Z. da da da, stereotypes, stereotypes. Well, who's your favorite generation? And then when I would say Gen Z, would

Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah.

would be like, what? What do you mean? And so was like, okay, wait, there's something here to this. And so I dove all in on understanding the sociological and societal context that raised each generation and is creating some very specific workplace behaviors that we're seeing play out today. And whether that's Gen Z or Gen X or millennial or baby boomer, and I know that's a lot of jargon, so we can

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hundred.

Yeah. Yeah. We might have we might we might have to break down what the years are because I have there's so many arguments that happen. Well I'm not like even my kids, my daughter's like, I am not Jen Alpha, whatever this new generation is. She's like, Gen Z, because I have a seven-year-old who's Jen Alpha. She's like, I'm like that. So that's like his whole like warring of the generations.

Talk about the way they do.

Yeah!

Yeah.

Yep. Yeah, totally. So like high level, there are eight generations living today, which is the most in history ever because people are living longer. And we have, yeah, eight is big, but there's about, there's only, yeah, there's only about four that are actually in the workplace though. So, um, Jen Beta is the youngest. They started being born in 2025. The oldest are like 18 months old.

Yeah. Eight. Wow, that's profound. I was only thinking four or five.

Dr. Sameena Rahman (07:55.479)

Okay.

we don't know anything about them yet other than that they are going to be for sure AI native. We'll see. we catch on to this generational stuff that we're passing down before that happens. and then after that.

Yeah.

They're gonna be fucked up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, they're gonna they're you're right, they're gonna be really AI's gonna be rolling the nation rolling.

Big time, yeah. And then we have Generation Alpha, is, there's old is about 14 years old right now. We have Gen Z, which is about like 14, 15 to 29. So they're almost hitting that 30 year old mark, which is crazy. Gen Z is interesting because.

Yeah.

see, so my middle child is a is she just turned 14 and she's like I am not gen alpha. So yeah.

Yeah, so she a lot of people say that they're considered cuspers or micro generations. They span like two to three years. Yeah. Yeah. So they'll they'll adopt different traits. Yeah. And then you have after that, so you've got Gen Z and there is all just 29 and then you have Millennials. I'm a millennial. They're like 1981 to 1996.

Okay. They can

Uh, millennials are as old as 45 and people like don't believe that they're shocked when I say that. And then we have Gen X. Gen X is like, they were born from between 65 and 80. And then we have baby boomers and baby boomers were 1946 to 1964. We have, uh, the, uh, silent or traditional generation. those. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

See, I didn't even know what was before the boomers. I'm like, who that's before the boom?

Yeah, so that's the silent or traditional generation. That is the generation that was in World War II. And then before that, we have the greatest generation and they are, you know, around 100 and they're nicknamed the greatest. It's because they were around during the Great Depression. So that's why they're called the greatest generation. Yeah. So those are the eight generations that are like living today, but there's only four really that are in the workplace, which is Gen Z, Millennial, Gen X and

Yes.

You're the greatest generation.

okay. Hello, okay.

Baby bloomers.

Yes. Okay. Awesome. this is the greatest generation. do you know how many how many people in the greatest generation exist? 'Cause it seems like it's pretty it's the centineli centenel the centenelians and you know, the the hundred years. Right, exactly.

my gosh, I would have to.

Yeah, I would have to look that number. That number escapes me. I mean, I've seen the numbers for sure. But that one changes rapidly, right? So like, yes, I would look at that a year ago and it would be a very different number today.

Yeah. Yeah.

Daily. Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. when you bring up the workplace, I find that so what I was saying in the intro was you know, I watched Scrubs when I was a resident. So Scrubs, I don't know if you watch Scrubs, it's a show on about the medical profession. It's a little bit of a comedy. it's it was on a little bit after Gray's Anatomy started. So I was a resident, and the reason I call myself Gyno Girl is because

Yeah.

Yeah, here in

Initially, I saw I was a resident with them, and they they were it's like a funny comedy, but it was kind of real. And there was a group of women in the hospital that were gynecologists that they called the gyno girls. here comes the gyno girls, and so I used to love that. And then I actually met the cast of scrubs when I moved to LA, and I met them in in LA at the Emmys when I attended one year, and was like, I'm actually a gyno girl. So then they called me gyno girl, like that's the only way they remember.

Every time I Yeah, so like I'm actually a guy-done girl because my my husband and kids they love comics. I mean I do too. So we love superheroes. So I was like, yeah, I'm the superhero of Pelvis.

I love that. You coined it yourself, specifically using it in the real world.

I'm obsessed with that. I actually I see the icon here on the screen in our little studio and I'm like, yep, I love it. It's great. it's behind you too. I see that. I love it.

Yeah. yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so so when I was going through scrubs, you know, like I was the resident who was getting yelled at by my attendees because that was commonplace, right? You could you could really annihilate your resident, make them feel very small because they made a mistake. And also, you know, you worked a hundred hour eats and also like when people were pregnant, I mean I wasn't, but I had

fit colleagues that were pregnant and going through it. And like when I was a resident, you just kept working. You know, like this kind of rhetoric that continued for a very long time. And now Scrubs is looking like when they do this when they do their like this is what's happening to the characters now. So the eldest attending is really upset because he can't yell at the younger residents. And they're all like, you know, going on TikTok, like I'm gonna TikTok him if he yells at me. Like and then they would immediately have someone say, I'm sorry you can't say that anymore. You know, like

So that was so interesting to me because it was like it's such a generational difference in how we're even teaching medicine now, right? This toxic culture is not accepted. Like, you know, we we call these residents soft because, you know, but that's what people think, right? Like, you know, like we learned in a very like sort of cruel manner where, you know, people were telling us that, you know, if you do this, this patient's gonna die and you're an awful person, versus like.

Yeah.

You know, there's a creat like, you know, you're being a little more ginger with these patients, like trying to be I mean not patients, residents and and students. And they get w moff and work life balance is really important. Which I love, but that wasn't what we were offered.

Yeah.

Yeah, you're totally. So like some of the hallmark things between some of the generations that I think that you're talking about right now, or I can sense that you're talking about is Gen X was worked to the bone because baby boomers worked 80 and 90 hour weeks regularly, regardless of the field. So it could have been the medical field, but it could have been law. could have been, you know, we'll, we'll mad men this one advertising, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah, yeah, I haven't, yeah.

Yeah, it didn't matter what it was. Baby boomers were proud to be working these 80 to 90 hour weeks because they were stacking cash, right? It was like economic prosperity out the wazoo and Gen X, it was a little bit different in the sense that they because they they're latchkey kids, they came home to empty environment.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, and they were like, I actually don't know if I want that for my family. But I get that that's the environment in the world that I'm living in right now. So of course, they go into whatever field they're in. And, know, whether it's in the hospital or what have you. And they're working these long hours, because that's the expectation from the generation before them. And then Millennials come in to the scene, right? And they're starting to balance, well, wait, I've been watching this, I'm not sure I'm bought in, but I guess I'm just gonna do it. And

Yeah, yeah.

social media kind of inserted itself, right? So now all the things that you're doing get documented. So if a doctor wants to go out and have a cocktail, suddenly that's on, you know, it's an 84 Facebook photos where we used to post 84 photos on Facebook at one time. And then Gen Z is a little bit different. And, you know, when we think about Gen Z being soft, they're the most emotionally, they have the best emotional language of any generation before them.

Yeah. Yeah.

And we actually have our Gen X parents to thank for that. So Gen X is primarily the parent of Gen Z and they were really shaped by this closer parenting, but you compound that with.

As we call it a helicopter. We call it the helicopter. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. the compound that with social media bullying, the constant feedback loop that Gen Z is getting, depression that people had during COVID, and then just the experience of like active shooter drills and gun violence in schools. Now that close parenting becomes hyper-protective parenting and emotional language. And I need to get my kids into therapy and make sure they're supported from a mental health perspective.

So they're getting more mental health support than any other generation ever has. And now when they're coming into the doctor's offices in the workforce, whether they're there as a doctor or there as a patient, they have a different set of language tools that they get to use, which while, yeah, maybe they're softer, they can speak to what they're experiencing in a way that none of us ever.

Well, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

A hundred percent. I see that actually. I see that in my patients. I take care of it and I see in my kids actually too. Like I just I just know that they have a higher level of and it's true, you know, we put we we therapise the hell out of Go into therapy, you need it. No, but it's true because like I think we were more tuned with the fact that we I I do think the the other generations weren't like when it comes to mental health, it was always like highly stigmatized.

Now it's a little bit less. I think it's still stigmatized in some communities, but not so much. You just have to suck it up and bear it. And I think that trauma like lives generationally too. Like can you talk to me about how you talk about peop j talk about generational trauma when it comes to some of this stuff? Like

Yeah, mean, like realistically, we like our parents, if I think about just even like, I feel like my like family line, if you will, is a good example of what a lot of people may have gone through, which is the inability to

have these conversations with your family, have these conversations with your parents, right? My mother, for example, didn't talk about mental health, didn't talk about like body fertility, reproduction, sex, perimenopause, anything like what's going on down there, any of that. That never happened with my grandmother, right? And so as a result, my mother,

What yeah.

I didn't talk about it as much and I didn't feel that comfortable asking her. I mean, I think this is funny, but the the best sex ed that I got was this book that my aunt gave me that had everything in it. I mean, it had puberty for both men and women. It had mental health and the differences in some of the hormones and cycle like our cycles and all of these and it was this bright pink book. I can't remember what it was, but it it changed my life. And

Well yeah.

Yeah.

I learned more from that book than any other sex education I'd had to learn about myself and my body. so while I didn't necessarily get it from my parents because generationally people just were less comfortable talking about it as you kind of get older in the generations, we know that to be the case now. so people like

you and people like me and people that are comfortable talking about this stuff are now able to change and shift and break that behavior pattern of feeling uncomfortable talking about it. My husband's family, for example, his mom created such a safe space that when my husband and when my husband's brother, when they lost their virginity, they ran into the room and shouted it, right? So every family is different, but every family also has the opportunity to say,

Yeah.

but he got.

This actually didn't work for me and I feel like this was a miss on what I received and I would like to provide something different to my own children.

Yeah, well that's that's a good point. Yeah, 'cause I do feel like j it generationally, like even how we have a relationship with our own body is different, right? 'Cause you're right, like I think other generations were taught silence. I know definite and there's like a cultural aspect and then there's a generational aspect too, right? Like I think that there are issues with people understanding about you know, shame and and what what their body parts are, what their body parts do.

How do you think like what is your understanding of how is how these generations are looking more at sort of how they understand their own body parts?

Yeah, I mean, I think for millennial and Gen Z right now, just through those perspectives, we know that Gen Z is the most sexually literate generation at their age. They just talk about it more openly. It's easier. It's more normalized. It's talked about in therapy. And because they have the most diversity when it comes to gender spectrum and sexual orientation,

talking about these things and understanding more about what they like and what they don't like and what they're open to or not open to is more common. But with all that being said, there's actually also data that shows that they're having sex a lot less. yeah.

A lot. I don't know. I've read I mean I've seen the data on that too. It's interesting.

Yeah. And then millennials, well, frankly, both. Wellness culture has taken over this capitalistic wellness culture, like has allowed us to talk a lot more about hormones, has allowed us to talk a lot more about perimenopause, has allowed us to talk a lot more about fertility, right? And so I think that that's like the good side of this, like wellness.

No.

thing that's happening. I think there's some regulation that needs to go on there. But I think that just having these conversations in public spaces has allowed us to, again, be more comfortable. But I still have circles around me with my millennial cohort of people that are uncomfortable talking about it.

I know I'm well for sure.

I am someone who is open to talking about all of the things, right? Let's talk, yeah, let's talk about fertility and hormones and my whole cycle of going through fertility preservation. And let's talk about kink and let's talk about all the weird stuff that goes on between the hips. You know what I mean? And I really would love for more people to get comfortable in that space so that again, we can provide that safety to the gen alphas and the gen betas.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. And right, and really destigmatize it to the point where it's not, you know, again, we know that with all the stigma and the shame that comes with it comes all these sexual like problems and and medical issues that evolve. So, you know, the more I think that we're educating and open about it, the less stigma we can we can remove from it. So I agree with you. I mean talk me through like like your typical sort of client and what you do for them, like in terms

Yeah.

Yeah.

you know, either coaching or, you know, interjecting into workplaces. Like who's what's your typical person that would come to you and say, help us with X, Y, or Z?

Yeah. So I firmly believe that what goes on in your personal life impacts how you show up at work and what happens at work impacts how you show up in your personal life, whether it's for your friends or your health or for yourself or for your family. Right. And so I very much believe in supporting the whole person. the companies hire me, people hire me for one on one coaching for their high achieving Gen Z.

early career individual who is figuring out how to build her confidence and build her brand and present the way that she wants to in the world and maybe make sure that the work that she's doing feels values aligned and communicate her needs. All the way to the millennial executive because again, millennials are executives. They're 45 years old right now, which think a lot of people forget, but who's got expanded scope and who is leading multi-generational.

teams. so whether it's the one on one coaching or bringing me in to help organizations engage and retain multi generational talent, especially that Gen Z talent, that's really where I thrive. But the type of woman that is coming to me, the most common thing regardless is confidence and self advocacy. How do I communicate?

what I'm doing, all the awesome things that I'm doing, how do I talk about the great things that I'm doing in a way that feels humble enough for me, but also make sure that I'm being my own press. again, building my confidence so that I feel like I can continue to grow and learn.

Right. And make them work.

like be this workplace badass that I know that I can be. That's the woman, that's the avatar and she's probably, you know, young, mid millennial.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. No, that makes sense actually. And I think that I think that's great. And and how do you talk to like different like if you have say a department or

you're going into an an organization, how do you help them navigate the differences? Do you know what I'm saying? Like like, you know, people are colliding because, you know, your boss thinks that you're lazy, but actually this is not laziness. This is how you are preserving your mental health and your identity, you know what I'm saying? Like these that come up, like how how can how do you resolve them? Like in in as a person that comes in from the outside?

Yeah, the first thing and the most foundational thing that I like to do is do like basic foundational education on that sociological context that raised the generations because to your point, they're lazy is typically I'm doing the bare minimum at work because the work that I'm doing doesn't feed my soul. It's not aligned with my purpose. And also I watched all the generations before me work to the bone and I don't subscribe to that. Also,

Yeah, yeah.

Gen Z is the most entrepreneurial generation ever, like in history. And so they've got their day job and they're probably going home to a side hustle too. So they're not lazy. They're just not interested in what it is that you as an employee or a manager is having them do.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. So there's just enough to to to fund their other creative outlet, I guess.

Totally, totally. And I think like one of the things that I love to work with leaders on is how are you having a conversation with your team about how the work that they do specifically impacts a person, an organization, an output bonus points if it's socially responsible because Gen Z is super into that, right? And I say all this with a caveat of all of

Yeah, yeah.

What I say about different generations is based on data and trends, but every single person is unique. So your job as a leader is to understand what hooks them. What are they interested in most? What makes them feel a sense of purpose and figure out how to connect the work that they're doing to the impact that they make.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, no, that makes sense. And this obviously ever just like everything else, it's more nuanced and can't really make an algorithm for it. But I mean speaking of algorithms, what do you think about how AI is affecting the workplace and how what's happening with the generations that interact with it and the generations that don't?

Yeah.

Yeah, I think this is an interesting problem to solve for because women have had 22 % higher chance of losing their job to AI than men. And that's just because their roles primarily are more automated roles. And women often think that it's not in their lane, that AI is not in their lane. Leaders, managers, there's also data that shows that managers and people leaders of any kind are

Yeah.

pushing men to use AI more than they're pushing women. And the problem that I have with that, I saw a post about this a couple of months ago that really has stuck with me, is women are not in the room when it comes to AI decisions and AI development. And so what's happening is if women don't start engaging in AI more, it's going to get more male. So how, yeah, so how do we, and it's going to continue to also mean that.

Yeah.

Well,

as women, our roles are at higher risk than men, maybe in the same position in our organizations. I would also say that we are literally removing like rungs in the career ladder by saying, Gen Z, need to have experience to come into the workplace. But in order to have experience, you have to have been doing some of this other work. But wait, we gave this work to automation.

Yeah, so yeah.

São a boxe.

Yeah, you're not, so this role actually doesn't exist in the company and the role that would be above it is one that you're actually not prepared for. You haven't done, you don't have the experience for. So it's a double edged sword. so Gen Z is feeling it and I think women are feeling it. And it's really scary to enter the workforce as a Gen Z individual right now. But I will say one thing that I love about AI across the board,

That's the work. You know, yeah.

and you've mentioned this on your podcast, but this is something that I have done personally myself. And then I heard you say it in one of your episodes. I didn't have language for one of the things that I was experiencing. And I was able to have a full conversation with Claude to get some details on what it was that I felt like I was going through. And I was able to bring that language with me to the doctor's office. And it made my conversation so much easier and so much, I could digest it better.

Yeah.

And I was able to communicate my needs better. So I think that there's a ton of value in AI. We're just not harnessing it the right way yet because we're moving so stinking fast.

Yeah.

It's so fast. I mean, just to think about I feel like, you know, maybe Chat GPT was has been out for what a year or two, but it seems but it's probably longer than that actually. Or maybe short. I don't even know. I have to look at

Yeah. No, actually, I'm pretty, if I remember correctly, OpenAI, this was, it was like in the 20 teens, like mid 20 teens when OpenAI and ChatGPT first started to come to life. But we really only started seeing it when we saw the first, you know, Will Smith's spaghetti video. I don't know if you have seen it.

A lot.

Yeah, yeah. yeah, that's right. my god, that's crazy. Okay, yeah. No, I think you're

Yeah, I highly recommend looking at the evolution. There's like five videos now of how AI has evolved to do the Will Smith spaghetti video. And now he's sitting with his son having a full conversation while they're eating spaghetti and it's like flawless. Yeah, it's the it's the benchmark for the progress of AI is Will Smith eating spaghetti.

wow. I'm gonna

wow. I'm gonna look that up because I don't think I I I think I'd heard of it. I haven't seen it myself so that's so interesting. I I do think you're right too about just, you know, getting more women and girls into the STEM area where they think that they can't do this computer science stuff or coding.

Which is why some of these coding things are so important because it is true, whoever is making the algorithms is automating what they want, right? And so we can really automate sexism and racism till the time until the cows come home. Because the person making is probably a white male. Yeah, yeah. So it's like Yeah. Yeah. That's like feeding the box, they call it the black box that feeds the elf for the lo the large learning.

1000%. Yeah.

Language learning module, the L L Ms. whatever it is.

Yeah. Yeah. We're like, I don't know. We don't know all these actors. Who cares? Who cares?

I don't know. See this is a problem. This is a problem. Large learning modules. Is that right? Some are all correct. Yeah. Machines. Large learning machines. I don't know. Okay.

Uh, not quite, but, um, but I think the whole, the it, I'm pretty sure it's, it's large language models, but yeah. Uh, but my husband who is an AI expert will, you know, he'll probably hear me saying that and be like, actually it's.

Large length by the way that's what it's yeah.

Well that's good that you have someone, yeah, to help. Yeah. That's true because even some of the research that we're trying to do is in sort of AI and whether or not like the bias and dismissal that exists now in women's health, would it get automated if the right people weren't making, you know, the algorithms or whatever. So that's interesting though.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, so I wonder what that looks like from a women's health perspective and how women that are key voices, not just the pew, well, I don't want to say just, but in addition to the female medical experts and the scientists that are working behind the scenes, the ones that are having a lot of these conversations like you, what does it look like to engage individuals like you? Like,

Yeah.

Dr. Crawford, for example, and bring people into the conversation to help educate the models coming from a woman instead of coming from old text, which frankly, we know back in the day was maybe written by some women, but had men's names on it just to get recognized.

I know, I know. It's true. I know that we're gonna be short on time because I had issues starting, but talk to me about if you went into like a medical center today and you saw that there was, you know, some issues happening between attending resident and student, like how do you think we can actually modernize medicine between the people that are learning it and the people that are teaching it?

Yeah.

Like coming from your perspective, right? Like someone that kind of helps generations understand each other. you know, because I you know, I keep I have these reliving thoughts about, you know, being screamed at when I was an intern because I didn't do the right evaluation for a patient who might have had an ectopic pregnancy or, you know, all the things that you remember. and that trauma kind of lives in you. And so obviously you want to diminish that for next generations.

But on the same s the same time you want to make sure that these generations are learning medicine right so that they can take care of because I think that's where so many people get concerned is like, these are the people that are gonna take care of us when we're old. And so what happens if they're just opening, you know, going on to open AI or open, you know, evidence to find all their information, which a lot of it might not even be true, you know. And and some I have a friend who is attending is a hospitalist and she said, when I'm rounding with my

Gen Z and millennial attending residents, instead of just knowing the answer, they have they get out their smartphone and type in the things and she's like, It frustrates me because I feel like they're not communicating with the patient, they're not trying to understand. So how like how would you insert yourself to kind of help in that scenario?

Yeah, I think there's a couple different things that came up for me here. So we can work like, let's work from like opening all the way to this end here. But Gen Z we know is a hypersensitive generation and it comes from their upbringing, right? It comes from what society and the pressures that society put on them. And so when you think about communicating with Gen Z,

Yeah.

they don't operate in a command and control environment. They actually revert, right? They go inside themselves. They tell themselves that it's about them. It's their fault. It really impacts their self-esteem. So that command and control communication for somebody who's Gen Z is probably not going to be not only not received, but it won't digest because they'll be so distracted by the...

cortisol spike that they have from being put under pressure that it's not going to sit with them.

Martin Yeah.

Very great parenting skills right now you're teaching me. 'Cause what I'm learning is like the yelling I do to my kids is not going anywhere.

Hahaha!

Yeah, so a great phrase to keep in mind with Gen Z is telling is yelling. Okay, so shifting from the command and control and telling them what to do into a coaching mindset and a coaching mindset sits back and creates safe space, asks questions and creates a space where it's okay if they fail when they're answering these questions that you have.

Helling.

because you're going to give them a space to think it through and use their critical thinking skills to think through it. But they might need a second because we raised them in an environment where they are used to being able to call on technology to get the answers. We raised them in that. And now we're frustrated. Now we're frustrated that that's what their default behavior is. We have to shift that.

Yeah.

But yeah.

We have to shift being frustrated with it because again, we created that environment. So how do we create a safe space to shift that behavior into more critical thinking?

That's really good. You just I I'm I'm gonna do better for my kids tonight, thanks to you.

Yeah, just remember, telling is yelling.

Telling is yelling, telling is yell. So you don't want to tell.

No, you don't want to tell you want to allow they so many times the people in front of us know the answer. But we don't provide them enough space to do so. I mean, just think about it when you are stressed and under pressure. It's harder to take the right action or think of the thing on the spot. Right. And so for somebody who feels like they're being judged, for somebody who's feeling like they're being evaluated, they're already under pressure. And then you ask them a question and you're

Yeah.

they don't know the answer, they're feeling that pressure, they're feeling that cortisol, they're feeling that adrenaline, and they cannot recall the answer or the words. We gotta give them a little bit of grace to figure that out, to train and shift the behavior.

Very good. I love that. Telling is yelling. Okay, I'm gonna remember that. That's good because I think that that you're absolutely correct. This is the environment that they were raised in because this is what's happening in our society right now. And so unless you were being a hundred percent restrictive, which it's really almost impossible to do, I think, then yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And so that's where that that's where that coaching mentality comes in. It's definitely what they prefer and data shows it. So I would

Yeah.

Then you can find that you're a safe space though.

Say it again.

How do you convince them this is a safe space if that's the behavior you've shown them the past?

Yeah, it, you'll have to prove it over time, right? If you dug yourself into a hole, it's okay, because you're going to learn how to get out of it because we trust ourselves enough, we know enough to be able to say, I'm actually going to shift the space that I didn't create before and say, you know what, it's okay, I'm actually working on allowing you to come up with the answers. So I'm working on removing my judgment, right? And a lot of times our ego gets in the way from having this conversation.

I know, I know.

If you have a resident that you're to teach, just as an example, if you have a resident you're trying to teach.

Just full disclosure, I don't treat my residents this way. I might treat my kids this way, but not my residents.

Well, so if you if historically you haven't they haven't necessarily had the space to play and fail and all of that with you, how do you communicate that you are working to shift that and that you would love for their partnership and holding you accountable to shifting your behaviors to better serve them? Right? I call this calling the elephant into the room because we avoid having this conversation because our ego is in the way. But if we

suppress the ego, if we recognize that the ego is blocking us from having this in touch conversation, then we remove vulnerability from the scenario. And that show of vulnerability is the first step in rebuilding trust with that other person and creating safety. Right? We know that when we're vulnerable, it creates a safer space. So

Hey, Samina, you know, I just wanted to let you know that I have realized that my command and control leadership might not be working in the way that it has in the past. And so I'm adjusting and evolving and trying to create a safer space. Could you like, let me know if this shift that I'm making is working for you so I can lean into it more? It's a weird conversation to have.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mm. I like

Yeah. How do you have it with your kids though? Hi son, I'm really realizing the way I've been momming you is not right here.

Mm-mm.

I mean, you probably could. I'm not a parent yet, I think that... And I feel like you probably could have that conversation. And we know that kids often are more honest with us anyways. So what would it look like for you to be like, hey, let's come up with a secret code word.

Yeah.

for when I'm being a jerk, you can say pineapple. And I know that like, I need to create a safe space for you because what I'm doing is command and control instead of safe space.

They have space and reflection. Let them reflect. I like that. You should come into like some of the residence, residency like, you know, things. I'm sure I don't know if I have to look and see whether or not the they have someone, because you know, the interns start in July, right? And so there's all this like, you know, the more generational differences we have, the more I see it, I see people struggling, I see attending struggling sometimes. They're like, this makes me so mad.

Yeah.

Yeah, and I think there's different reasons why frustration exists, but the majority of it happens in breakdowns in communication and communication preferences, right? We all generally speaking want the same thing. We want respect for our experience and our expertise and our knowledge. We want to feel valued, right? We want people to just treat each other well. We want to get paid for the work that we're doing. And so

Yeah.

But the way that we try and accomplish those things are different by generation. Right? So it's just a matter of understanding what the breakdown is between those and understand that we're all trying to get to the same place. Yeah. Yeah.

Never thing goals. Yeah. Mm. I like that. I like that, Callie. That's great. I love this conversation. hopefully it resonates 'cause have a lot of medical doctors, nurse practitioners that listen. So hopefully people will be like, Okay, that's what I should be doing with my underlings and juniors or kids.

Yeah.

Either one. anyway, I'm gonna put in the show notes where everybody can find you, but I really appreciate this conversation. It's been great. I wanna be cognizant of your time. But if anyone wants to get in touch with Callie Foster, you can look in the show notes and tell us where we can find you otherwise.

Yeah, you can find me on Instagram at Millennial Leadership Coach or at Callie Foster.com. But Samina, I have to tell you, I prepared a Vagilante take. I did. I did. Yeah. And I kind of already hinted at it earlier, but I have to tell you, like, I firmly believe that

Okay. Okay.

We as millennial women, we're at this crossroads. We're 30 to 45 years old. We're exploring babies and family planning and extending our fertility runways. And we've got some in perimenopause and our relationship with our sexual health is changing, right? And I think the best thing that we can do through all of this is to remove the stigma around talking about it. mean, becoming the safe person for you and your friend group.

making sure that the women around you don't feel like they're navigating this in a silo. Whether it's again, sex med hormone shifts, whatever it is that you're experiencing. Find a space where you can have that conversation. And if you are not if that space doesn't exist, create it within your circle. And I think it might feel uncomfortable. But I firmly believe that listening to podcasts like this and engaging with people like you who normalize all of this stuff.

will make it easier and that will break the generational cycle and behaviors that we have and allow us to normalize more of these conversations. So I appreciate you for inviting me here.

Yeah.

Yeah, I appreciate it. No, I love that. I love what you're saying. And I actually I do see a lot of intergenerational friendships nowadays. Like people that are not, you know, because it used to be you just were friends with people that were a year above or below you. But now I see even myself, I have friends that are maybe ten years younger or ten years older. And I think it's that normalization and destigmatization that happens.

Yeah.

you know, or maybe we all have the same goals, like a lot of us are all in in menopause, special sexual medicine or re you know, something about it, but it does, whatever brings us together is destigmatizing, you know, those discussions.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm just so grateful for truly again for people like you for creating these spaces.

Thank you so much. Well, you're always welcome to come back, you know, next time we can talk more because I had I had a list of things I but you know, sometimes I just like to talk off the cuff and it makes me 'cause I'll come up with things and I'm like, wait, I want ask you this. So I have like five or six other things I was gonna ask you about.

Yeah, totally. Let me know. mean, maybe we'll go to lunch or coffee and chat it out. Yeah.

Yeah, I would love to. I would love to. Yeah. Thanks. Awesome. all right, everyone, thanks for listening today. Gyno Girl Presents Sex, Drugs, and Hormones. I'm Dr. Sameen Rahman. Gyno Girl. Remember, I'm here to educate so you can advocate for yourself. Please join me next week. Yay.