Neanderthal, CroMagnon, Intemperance, Maestranza, and others. RoMa Craft is known for high-quality tobacco, premium cigars, and not charging an arm and a leg for them.

Ever wonder what goes into determining a cigar’s cost? Learn Cigar Econ 101 and more with Skip Martin, co-founder of the RoMa Craft Tobac. Skip and his business partner, Mike Rosales, started RoMa Craft in 2010 and established a factory in Nicaragua in 2012.

Episode features: Co-Founder, Skip Martin. Interview by Boveda’s Box Press Hosts Nate Beck and JP Awad.

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Welcome to another episode of Box Press. I'm 

your host Nate Beck and I am your other host

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JP Awad. What's up everyone? Today we have on Skip Martin of RoMa Craft Tobac which is owned by Skip

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and Mike Rosales and they have their own factory 

in Nicaragua, NicaSueño and we are very excited

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to get to talk with Skip today. Welcome Skip. Hey 

guys, how are you all doing? We're doing good. So

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Skip, we've already been talking about a lot of 

really fun things. I think maybe first question

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we can start with is what what may be new and kind 

of interesting do you have coming up? I know I've

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seen on your Facebook page some really cool art or 

something maybe new and interesting. I don't know

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what you want to talk about or if it's something 

that's fair game, but tell us about anything new

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that you have coming out. Yeah, so you know, we're 

not a company that does new things, you know, very

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much. So when we do it's it's kind of notable. 

We did have a couple years ago we launched

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Maestranza, which has been doing really well. And 

I've been working on this brand called Visigoth,

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which is kind of the last of the CroMagnon 

brands. So, CroMagnon is CroMagnon, Aquitaine,

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Baka, and then now, and then the CroMagnon 

Pennsylvania, and now the Visigoth brand. I've

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been working on this kind of idea for a long time. 

It's one of those where kind of the name of it,

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it's been out there long before the the blend was 

ready. And we started this new program called,

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Craft Maquette. Uhhuh. A couple years ago and 

it's kind of where we explore these, you know,

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blends we're working on and Foreign & Domestic was one that we did I don't know maybe a year ago and

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it's a blend that I really really liked and then 

so we kind of decided kind of consistent with that

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Maquette process that that would end up being the 

Visigoth brand just the way one the one of the

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first Maquette became Maestranza brand. Oh, okay. 

Yeah. So, so yeah, the Visigoth it'll probably be,

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you know, sometime early next year. I mean, 

it takes a while to accumulate the tobacco

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and then it takes a while to to make the cigar 

and then, you know, we we generally will age a

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cigar for 4 to 6 months before we package 

it. Sure. And then when you launch a brand,

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you kind of want that brand to to have enough to 

kind of go to all your retailers. And so you have,

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excuse me, you have to accumulate some inventory. 

Excuse me. So it'll probably be you know trade

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show next year around when that that's released. 

Yeah. Sure. That's cool. Yeah. Dude, talk to us a

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little bit about the naming of your cigars because 

I personally think they're f*%#ing great names. I

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love I'm just curious to know like what's kind of 

the impetus behind like all of the naming of all

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of your cigars and how did that come about? Well, 

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Mike and I were we were kind of tossed around this 

idea of Neanderthal or CroMagnon. Yeah. And really

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it's just kind of, you know, you talk about the 

cigar culture and, you know, and then when you

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talk about culture, you're really talking about 

anthropology and you know, history and and so,

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we wanted to do a cigar called Neanderthal. It 

didn't seem as strong enough to be, you know,

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kind of Neanderthal. And and then I told Mike, 

you know, about, you know, kind of like the more,

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you know, cultured version of, you know, the 

Neanderthal, which was the the early modern human,

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the CroMagnon. Yeah. And and so that's that's what 

we, you know, that's kind of what we called it

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when it came out. We didn't have labels or boxes 

or or anything like that. So it, you know, it

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was just kind of a it was just kind of you know, 

something to call it. it wasn't so much a brand

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as it was just, you know, kind of what we wanted 

to refer to the line of cigars as. And then around

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around 6 months later, we you know, we wanted to 

do an extension of that with a different wrapper.

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The CroMagnon was discovered in Aquitaine. So 

that's or Aquitaine and so that's where that name

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came from was an extension of CroMagnon. Okay, 

that's really cool. Ah, that's awesome. Yeah. And

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then we wanted to do a Prohibition-themed 

one and around the same time there was

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a, there was actually a there was not a cigar 

thing released yet, but Prohibition as a brand

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hadn't been used, but there was a trademark out 

there that was owned by Rocky Patel. He ended up

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coming out with it a year or two later, but so you 

know I wanted to kind of do a Prohibition-themed

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thing and so we were going to call it Intemperance 

and then you know we started looking through it,

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you know, I was like, no I you know really it's 

kind of more Intemperance. Right It's kind of

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the opposite of the Intemperance movement. So, we 

did we did that brand and then kind of, you know,

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everything we've kind of done since then has 

really kind of been an extension of that.

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You know, anthropological or historical, 

kind of names. Dude, I love that. Yeah,

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dude, that's killer. Yeah. So Nate and I were 

talking about this before we got on today and

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one thing that we really admire about your brand 

is your pricing structure and how the

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quality of your cigars is as high as 

anyone else's. Yeah. And which we appreciate you

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don't have a price increase 6 months or 

every year. And you've made it so that the

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people that are into your brand, which has a 

rabid following, have really great cigars at

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a really great price point, so they never have 

to worry about essentially you know rationing

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cigars or wondering when they'll be able to buy 

their next box. Yeah. So, like what you know,

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like take us through that. Like what what's the 

reasoning behind why you aren't raising your

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prices as often as everyone else? Because there 

are a lot of brands out there that you know have

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raised prices quite a bit over the years and for 

people that were buying boxes of certain brands,

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they've maybe had to find themselves buying less 

of brands or they're buying, you know, value

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cigars in bundles rather than buying things that 

they were used to buying boxes of all the time.

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Yeah. So, so there's a couple of things. There's 

a couple, you know, things around around that.

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I think it's important for people to understand 

and and I I don't think this is something that

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that most people, I mean, like a Boveda pouch, 

I mean, probably costs pennies to make, right?

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Most people probably don't understand that the 

majority of what you end up paying as a consumer

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is less about about the what it costs in labor 

and materials to make something as what does it

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cost to get it to the place where they're going to 

buy it. Yeah. And I mean that's definitely true in

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cigars. And if you work backwards, whatever the 

price of a cigar is, generally because the the

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industry works on a concept called Keystone, the 

person who's selling it to you generally bought

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it for about half. Yep. And and by extension, 

because, you know, Boveda is a product that sells

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inside of the same environment. I assume the 

retailer kind of expects to also make Keystone

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on Boveda, right? Yes, that's exactly right. 

Yeah. So, so and and you know, look, you know,

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buying something for $5 and selling it for $10 is 

is not really a common thing. You know, if you,

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if car makers priced that way or even grocery 

stores priced that way, things would be a lot

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more expensive. But, you know, at the same time, 

maintaining a retail shop that just carries one

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kind of very specialized product is not the most 

efficient way to to operate a retail business.

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So, you know, the margins really are necessary 

for a lot of the, you know, the kind of the

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smaller retailers to survive. Yeah. Now, if you 

run a really big retail business that, you know,

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that also happens to be a manufacturer of a lot 

of the products you sell, you don't need near

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those kinds of margins to survive. So that's why 

you find you know this competitive pressure of

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discounting and um because there is margin in 

the products to, you know, to have the room to

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do that. But the the the point the point I want to 

make though is if you go from $10 to $5 and then

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you start subtracting things like Federal Excise 

Tax for tobacco, what they call the S-CHIP tax,

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the FDA User Fee, now tariffs, freight, which 

is very expensive with fuel prices where they

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are. If you started if you started backing all 

those things out, even before the, you know,

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so the $5 in gross margin that the retailer 

is making there's not near 50% gross margin

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in that $5 for the brand. Right. Right. Right. 

If it really depends on what you categorize as

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cost of goods sold versus uh you know margin or 

expenses. But but you know you, I mean, on one

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end of the thing the brand is paying 15–20% to a 

sales organization, either their own or a broker

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or someone else, and then on the other end you 

know they're paying they're paying all these you

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know things to actually even get the cigar into 

the United States. I mean for us now it's about

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90 cents a cigar just in Excise Taxes, tariffs 

and freight. So, if you back that out, you know,

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the the the sales and administrative and and then 

the just the the regulatory stuff. Sorry, it's a

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little bit windy here. You're you're talking about 

now, you know, somewhere between $2 and $2.50. So,

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there goes half of the gross margin or here goes 

half of the the sales price in the first place.

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Yeah. you know, for uh so most cigar manufacturers 

on a $10 cigar are probably only making 50 cents,

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60 cents, or brand owners, I should say. And then 

so let's say for example that cigar was, you know,

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made for $1.50 and then has, you know, 65–70 

cents worth of box, label, Boveda, cellophane,

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all that stuff, you know. What you start realizing 

pretty quickly is and this all goes to how do we

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why do we price the cigars the way we do. So what 

what you what you realize pretty quickly is you

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know every cigar in the world costs somewhere 

between 75 cents and $2.50 to make. Mhm. I mean,

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you you use the the quote unquote best tobacco 

in the world, you know, and all of that stuff,

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you know, we aged this for 20 years and all that, 

you know, kind of marketing fluff, but at the end

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of the day, I could use, you know, short filler 

and it cost me 15–20 cents a cigar or I could use

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the best long filler in the world and it cost me 

65–75 cents. So you're talking about, you know,

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less than a half of a dollar one way or the other 

based on the best possible quality of material and

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the worst material, right? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And 

if and if you own the farms and if you own the the

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processing facilities, you know, you're making 

cigars in an even lower kind of real hard cost

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perspective. So, you know, someone like Padrón 

can probably make a Padrón, a 50-year Padrón,

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even if you include capital carrying costs 

of keeping tobacco for some some amount of

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time. They're probably making that $50 cigar for 

less than a $1.50, right? We make our CroMagnon

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Cranium probably somewhere around a$1.50. The 

difference is we don't grow tobacco. So we

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someone has to make money when we buy tobacco. 

Yeah, for sure. So, so we're actually paying a

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little bit more for tobacco. We pay a little bit 

more for labor. You know, kind of our overhead in

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general is a little bit more because we're not 

as big in, you know, in terms of efficiencies

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as as the larger guys. But so what what our 

what our kind of ethos has always been though

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is figure out where to put the money, right? 

So, like for example, if you look at our boxes,

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you got a couple of in front of you right there. 

Yeah. There it's really kind of a box inside of

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a box, right? So the inside kind of section of 

the box is just as thick and high quality as the

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outside section. It's not a cheap plywood insert 

or a cheaper version, a thin kind of insert. The

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bottom, and this is the first conversation we had 

about our boxes, the bottom is not a sheet of MDF

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or plywood. It's actually the same wood as the 

the other parts of the boxes made out of. If you

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look at most cigar boxes, most cigar boxes, 

especially if they're painted or lacquered,

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are not even real kind of solid wood, right? Yep. 

But cabinet boxes like thin kind of solid wood

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generally won't have a solid wood base because it 

it'll it expands and contracts and and it's not

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good to use. You have to use kind of MDF to keep 

the structure in the box. But because we're using

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wood that's a quarter inch or or or you know 3/8 

inch thick. Oh yeah. At least that. Yeah. Right.

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We obviously can use higher quality wood. And it 

turns out that you can use all real high quality

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wood and it costs less than if you make a a really 

cheap box and you put hinges and paint and stuff

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like that on it. Interesting. Hinges themselves 

cost, you know, 75 cents a piece or a dollar,

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you know, for the closures. So, and I'm talking 

about just cheap inexpensive wood boxes. Yeah. So,

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so we, you know, said, "Hey, how do we leave the 

hinges and stuff off but use higher quality wood?"

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And that kind of philosophy is kind of the way we 

do everything, right? Like how do we how do we use

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higher quality tobacco and pay our people better, 

but then where do we make that money up in the

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value chain, right? Well, what's the lowest what's 

the lowest from a consumer perspective? What's

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the lowest value? That's a big cost. And it's for 

us, it was you know advertising or for us it was,

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you know actually paying people to go on the 

road and and you know sell the cigar. Yep.

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So but when you when you don't have people 

on the road selling the cigar and you don't

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have advertising then you also are you're not 

going to sell 30 million cigars a year. Right.

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If you're specifically if you're if you're if 

you're picky about what kind of retailers you

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sell to also you you limit how many cigars you 

can sell but then at the same time the higher

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quality materials you select if you want to make 

consistent lines of cigars you also limit how many

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cigars you can make. So when you start putting all 

these different inputs together, what you end up

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with is how do we deliver the most amount of value 

at in the actual product that people are consuming

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and reduce all the other things that are not, you 

know, really adding value. They're really just

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there to make the company grow, right? Yeah. So 

when you take all those things out, you go, okay,

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well, I think we can make this many cigars and 

sell them at this price and and make and make a

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good living. And for us in the beginning, that 

was, you know, $7 or $8 for a, for you know,

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what we consider like a super premium cigar. Mhm. 

That's not necessarily in super premium packaging,

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but it's, you know, it's, you know, that box goes 

in the trash anyway. So why why should you you why

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should a customer pay $2 or $3 more per cigar just 

because of that, right? Actually, yeah. Nate and

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I were remarking about how beautiful your boxes 

are. Actually, they have a very classic look to

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them. They they're very well put together. And as 

far as opening some cigar manufacturer's boxes,

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it can be a, you know, a challenge to like get 

that lid. Well, one to get the lid off and then

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trying to get the lid back on can sometimes be a 

real challenge. But just being able to, you know,

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lift this lid and now you're at your cigars 

is fantastic. I mean, it's two cuts, you know,

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the Boveda seal and then the tobacco seal on here. 

I think they're beautiful. And then, you know,

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it's it's nice for your retailers that they can 

then refill these boxes with bundles that they

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can buy from you and they don't have to buy 

everything in boxes. Well, again, there go,

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you know, it's waste, right? So, for sure. So like 

how do we give our retailer a little bit extra

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margin and also help offset the discount that they 

give when they sell by the box? Yeah. But also

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eliminate you know consumed waste. So, you know, 

the short answer to your question that's the long

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answer. The short answer is the way you keep the 

way you deliver value in any product is you remove

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all the cost that exists that don't add value to 

the experience and then you figure out also how

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to make the company efficient enough where it can 

still make a decent, you know, kind of ROI without

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constantly increasing prices. Now there's been 

things out of our control, right? So so if it cost

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me $2.50 to import a cigar and then the government 

wants to take 18% on top of that or 10% on top of

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that. You know, you can do the math. If if they 

take 10%, that's a that's 25 cents a cigar. And

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if and if I make zero money and I just pass that 

25 cents on to the retailer, that cigar just went

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from whatever it was to 50 cents more. Right. 

Right. Yep. So you so when you start adding,

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you know, the airlines you know it used to cost us 

you know 2 1/2 or 2.9 something cents to import a

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cigar from terms of air freight. Now that that's 

something like, you know, 9 1/2 cents , right? So

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that adds that adds, you know, that adds something 

like 15 cents on the cigar. The the cost of of

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wood, the taxes in Nicaragua, the all this stuff, 

you know, most of our price increases over the

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years. Actually, we make we make a lot less money 

than we used to. We used to, you know, I I'll tell

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you the numbers because we don't really keep it 

a secret. I appreciate that about you actually,

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Skip. I think that's one of the rare things in 

this industry or in any industry. We sell about

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a million cigars a year. We make a little bit more 

money on the cigars we sell to Europe just because

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of the structure of the way because in Europe it 

isn't Keystone. The way it works in Europe is if

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a cigar cost 9 Euros, the manufacturer gets $3, 

the importer distributor gets $3, and the retailer

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gets $3. Right. Yeah. Which seems like a really 

fair process. But so, you know, the same cigar

186

that we we you know RoMa pays you know $2 before packaging, you know in Europe, they may be paying

187

$3 for the importer. Right. Sure. Sure. Yeah. So 

but the but also in Europe, we don't have tariffs,

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so it kind of evens out. But, you know, so on 

a million cigars we do about 4.3–4.5 million

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it depends on the mix of you know how much 

Neanderthal and how much Intemperance but so

190

let's say we make $4 million, the cigars used to 

cost us a little less than 40%, you know all in,

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now they cost us about 65 cents so our costs have 

gone up from our COGS have gone up as a percentage

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of our revenue almost you know 35–40%. Wow. So 

where so where our expenses have have remained

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pretty much the same maybe a little bit lower. So 

you know on $4 million, Mike and I used to split a

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million dollars and now Mike and I really kind of 

more split like $400,000 or $500,000. Yeah. So, I

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mean, we've always been profitable, but you know, 

you figure, you know, you make two or $200,000

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or whatever, $250,000, you make $500,000, all you 

end up doing is just paying more in taxes anyway.

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But yeah, yeah, exactly, dude. But I mean, you 

know, I mean, pretty much for the last, you know,

198

15 years, Mike and I've made, you know, in in 

the first years, we didn't make any, you know,

199

we didn't pay ourselves anything. But, you know, 

you make a couple hundred thousand dollars. And,

200

fortunately, you know, I had a good career before 

cigar. I always say I I used to make money,

201

now I make cigars. Yeah. Right. But, but, you 

know, where we used to do 25% net income and

202

and now we do something more like 10% and, 

you know, it's a good living, right? So,

203

and you know the point the point the reason why 

I tell you those numbers is to say that you know

204

every dollar we pay ourselves is more money that 

we have to charge for the cigar or vice versa.

205

And and you know what value does that add to it, 

right? Like if if I was if I had to be out on the

206

road every single week and and away from my family and you know shaking hands and and selling the

207

cigar for the retailer, I would probably demand 

that I made more, right? And so I would probably

208

charge more for the cigar. But then if the cigar 

costs more, maybe you sell less of them and you

209

have to work harder. So it's like this circle 

you get into where the more you want to sell,

210

the more you have to discount, the more you have 

to work. And it's like I just want to focus on,

211

you know, for me, I just like creating. So I 

just wanted to make good cigars. Okay. And and

212

you know, I smoke cigars. You know, like like I 

cook. I, you know, our Maria just set out what

213

we're going to make for dinner and, you know, I'm 

already thinking about how I'm going to make it

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and but I don't want to run a restaurant you know. 

No. Yeah. For sure. So, you know, the other thing

215

was I told Mike in the beginning is is like I've 

worked in a company where I wasn't really directly

216

connected with the work. I was mainly my job was 

running the business, right? And so, you know,

217

I don't want to work, you know, on the business. 

You know, I want to be in the business. I want to

218

I want to be blending cigars. I want to be, you 

know, doing the artwork for the for the label. I,

219

you know, I want to be doing those things. You 

know, working with the people and developing

220

people and seeing them grow from, you know, this 

to that. And so, that's what I enjoy doing. and

221

and that's how we built the company to do that. I 

love that. That's really cool, dude. Thank you for

222

explaining that. That's really insightful. Well, 

and and kudos to you. I'll get the the phrasing

223

wrong, I'm sure. But it's you can make very 

little money and have a very rich life and you

224

can make a lot of money and be very very poor in 

so many things because you're constantly chasing

225

that work and you're gone and you're never with 

your family. And so you're making all this money

226

for this group of people that you're supposed to 

care about and then you're never there. And then

227

at what point is that a win? You know, it's fun 

to be able to see your posts on on Facebook and

228

you know, you're having this delicious breakfast 

looking out over the water, beautiful scenery,

229

and enjoying a spectacular cigar. That's that's 

a life. I mean, and I've always been a fan of

230

brands and individuals that appreciate creating 

new and interesting art and a cigar for sure.

231

Anything can be art, but that creative process is 

the most. Sure. And appreciating the small things,

232

right? Yeah. Those those are the wins. Well, 

yeah. And this it shows through as well, Skip,

233

to you how you treat your staff and how you treat 

your employees and the culture that you've created

234

there especially at your factory. I have to think 

that's more rare in the industry, maybe not. I

235

don't know or don't have any factual basis on 

that, but I know it's unique in a lot of business

236

how much care and attention you give to your staff 

and your employees. Yeah. I mean it's important.

237

I think, you know, I think that you know you 

treat other people how you want to be treated.

238

I, you know, for us, you know, we like I mean it's 

a small again it's small so you know I can walk

239

in the factory and I know I know most of them you 

know there may be a one or two new people that I'm

240

still getting to know but you know, I know them 

by name. I know in a lot of cases I know their

241

family. I know, you know, in some cases I've been 

to their house and, you know, for whatever reason

242

and yeah, and they know us, you know, we're not 

we're not just some, you know, rich, you know,

243

person with a, you know, a long kind of, you know, 

family that walks in, you know, they clap and then

244

they leave and they they don't really ever know 

anything about us, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I

245

mean, the the handful of times that I've been able 

to spend time with you and Mike, either together

246

or separately, you're both extremely generous and 

just absolutely easy people to be around, which

247

is not super common. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of freeing 

yourself of ego is difficult to do in a lot of

248

industries, you know, and the cigar industry is 

no different, you know what I mean? Like every

249

industry is this way, right? Like it it's really 

hard to like leave the ego at the door and just be

250

a human and you know what I mean and just Yeah. 

Yeah. I mean, I don't, I mean, I don't, I'm not I

251

never really studied Freud so I don't know. I mean 

I think everyone has ego. I mean like you know

252

I'm going to get up on the step ladder and fix you 

know and clean out the channels of what that takes

253

a certain amount of chutzpah, right? To think, you 

know, I'm not, I shouldn't be getting up on any

254

ladders. Yeah. Right. It takes a certain amount of 

ego to, you know, just even do certain, you know,

255

get out of bed in the morning, right? And I think 

you have to be self-confident. I think you have

256

to be really determined in what you believe in. 

And a lot of times people misread, kind of like,

257

you know, when you have a very strong like for me 

I would say that I'm self-confident because you

258

know the way I grew up, you know, I had to be self 

you know I had to be independent and dependent on

259

myself. And then, I think you know, l do you 

believe that that your opinion is is kind of

260

correct? Yes, because I put in the work to, you 

know, if you've put in the work and you've got a

261

different opinion that you can present to me, I'm 

more than happy to listen to that. But most of the

262

time, people who have a really strong opinions 

about things, really haven't put in the work to

263

even form or substantiate that opinion, right? And 

then, you know, it's like, you can tell me about

264

tobacco all you want, but I've I've lived down 

here for 15 years, right? I've I've actually put

265

my hand on tobacco for, you know, you know, 30% of 

my life. I've been here buying tobacco and putting

266

my hands on it. I've seen good tobacco. I've seen 

bad tobacco. You know, you know, I can look at it

267

and I can tell you whether I think it's good or 

not. I could be wrong. I can look at it and say,

268

you know, what I think it's going to taste like, 

how I think it's going to work in a blend. You

269

know, you might can do that. If you're really 

good and smart, maybe you can make a couple of

270

trips a year down here and then you can go on 

to podcast and explain to everybody, you know,

271

about how you blend cigars. But that's right, 

right. And so my my point is saying that I don't

272

think saying that I'm confident about my ability 

to create cigars that I like. I don't view that

273

necessarily as ego or or saying, "Hey, there's 

things that I understand about this business

274

that other people don't because I've done the 

work. I've put in the work." Um yeah. Yeah. No,

275

totally. I think a lot a lot of what the negative 

aspects that you talk about when you say ego. I

276

think a lot of times because because there 

there's this projection of what people want

277

to someone said to me like you know the really the 

most important skill you can have in this business

278

is being able to fake authenticity, right? Which 

is you can't fake authenticity. That's the whole

279

entire definition of authenticity. Correct. 

But the thing about it is, if you can project

280

this idea that you are that, you know kind of this 

credibility. If you can project this idea, that,

281

you know, I've seen people slapping her name on 

a a cigar and then start doing events and they

282

have to talk about the blends and they don't even 

really know what the blend is. They have to talk

283

about the, you know, this. Let me tell you this 

story about this brand and it's like, it's it's

284

like, they're overcompensating for the fact that 

in their head they know how insufficient they are,

285

right? Because they know they haven't put in the 

work and I think the kind of negative aspects of

286

egos is is that kind of projection trying to o 

overcompensate. Like if you talk to, you know,

287

the guys who started, Tim and the guys who started 

Boveda, you know, you could say a lot of things

288

about them. I think they're very self-confident 

and they're hardworking and they're accomplished,

289

but I wouldn't say I wouldn't say they have ego. 

Yeah. You know, like they're very down to earth,

290

but but they know what the f*%# they're doing 

because they put they've put the 25 years, they've

291

learned it all the hard way, right? They've put 

the time and effort in. So when some, you know,

292

new marketing person shows up or some new product person shows up, they're more than willing to look

293

and listen, but they also understand this business 

in the business that they're in a way that nobody

294

who shows up is really going to understand it. 

Yeah. And so especially the more competent and the

295

more capable you are, the less you have to project 

this idea that you're capable, right? Yeah. For

296

sure. And I think that's confidence is a word that 

often gets confused with ego because you you have

297

knowledge, you have that skill. Yeah, that's a 

great point you make. Speaking of Tim and Sean

298

and Boveda, you know, you've got Boveda stickers 

here on all of your boxes and in all of your

299

bundles. You have been one of the best partners 

with Boveda and putting your our packs into all

300

of your cigars. How does Boveda help you and your 

business with cigars? Like, what does that offer

301

to you by including that in these boxes? Well, you 

know, I'm in my personal life, well, for here next

302

to the ocean, I don't really have to use a lot of 

humidification. Yeah. Right. And really for me,

303

and I say this, I say this, I've said it for a 

long time, is that I feel like over-humidification

304

is a bigger problem than under-humidification. 

Sure. So, there is no, unless it's 2-way, there's

305

no humidification system that for me really works 

for cigars because you know, if you keep cigars

306

in a dark, cool place, it's amazing how long 

they'll hold on to the humidity without any help,

307

right? You know, you put cigars in a Ziploc bag 

inside of your sock drawer, they're going to

308

stay in pretty good condition for a long time with 

almost no humidification, right? Yep. For me, the

309

issue really is more around from the time they're 

made to to the environment that they pass through

310

is over-humidification. So, you know, people talk 

about aging cigars in the cigar factory.

311

There really is no aging cigars. I mean, cigar 

factories want to get the cigar out as soon as

312

it's made and it's packaged. They want to get it 

out of the factory as soon as possible because the

313

longer it sits there, the longer your money sits 

there. Correct. Yeah. But you can't send a cigar

314

directly from the table. And why? It's it has 

nothing to do with marrying of flavors and all

315

the bullsh*t they tell you. What it really boils 

down to is is the humidification has to stabilize

316

in a cigar. So really what an what an aging room 

is is more than anything is a drying room. And

317

most factories use air conditioning, for example. 

Sure. Yeah. In the drying room. We don't. But when

318

you do that you can accomplish that in a couple 

of weeks. As it dries, there's some off-gassing,

319

which is kind of like a a part of fermentation. 

And so that when when that cigar if it goes

320

properly properly humidified into a box, the, 

especially if your entire packaging area and

321

your factory is also air conditioned then then 

you can get that kind of into a box and into a

322

a crate and into a a shipping container and then 

it kind of goes over the ocean for three weeks,

323

so it picks up humidity again. So, so the danger 

of getting a cigar from production to the consumer

324

is less about it drying out and it's more about 

it being too wet. Right. That's the danger. Yeah,

325

you make a great point. So, for us, you know, the 

box does a lot of work of sucking humidity, excess

326

humidity out of packaged cigars because from the 

time it leaves the aging room to the time it's

327

packaged, it picks up a little bit of humidity, 

ambient humidity. Yeah. Yep. But the box does some

328

work. So, you'll notice when you open a box of our 

cigars, our Humidi-Pak is not sitting on the top

329

of the cigars, you know, sucking, getting your 

humidity sucked out of it from the wooden lid.

330

Yes. Our our Humidi-Paks are always in the middle 

of, the middle of the cigars. Yeah. And the layers

331

So, they touch the cigars first. Yes. Well, 

so if we have four layers of cigars of 6 each,

332

you'll have 12 cigars, then above it, and then 12 

cigars because the outside cigars are getting kind

333

of conditioned by the box and then really what 

you're concerned is that the kind of cigars in the

334

middle of the box are going to stay too, you know, 

too humid or are going to get too humid. So for us

335

you know like but you know if you send the cigars 

to Germany air freight and then it goes through

336

the cold weather and then it goes through the 

freezing for what they do for insect

337

control or whatever for tobacco beetles, by the and 

it sits in a warehouse because some of our cigars

338

sit over there for five or six months but it sits 

in a warehouse in, you know, in Germany by the

339

time it gets to a retailer, the Humidi-Pak may be a little bit kind of consumed. Yep. And then so a lot of

340

customers in Europe are like, "Well, you know, 

your Humidi-Pak is dry. That means your cigars

341

have dried out." I'm like, "No, that just means 

it did its job." That is right there. That is

342

exactly right. Save that and throw that on social 

media so people hear that. Thank you, Skip Martin.

343

Yes. Yeah. So, I mean, you know, if you put if you 

put just sucking the humidity out of the box, the

344

Humidi-Pak will be consumed. A 10-gram Humidi-Pak will be consumed, right? Yep. But, you know,

345

is this if you hold the cigar up, does it crack? 

No. Does it, you know, is it seem like

346

it's underhumidified? No. Well, it's like, well, 

how do I know? Well, how what the Humidi-Pak being

347

dried out means that it went through this really 

rough kind of dry period and and just because the

348

cigars kind of made its way back, they've lost all 

their flavor because it's like, I don't know who

349

told you that, but that's just not true. Yeah. If 

I open if I opened a box of our cigars in a retail

350

environment and the Humidi-Pak was, you know, 11 

grams, you know, or 12 grams and it just picked

351

up a lot of humidity, I would be really worried 

that the cigars themselves were over-humidified.

352

Yeah. Right. Just because the environments that 

was in were like heavily humidified. Correct.

353

Right. Yeah. And and believe me, having a cigar 

sitting your car at 125, 150 degrees, you know,

354

with with 0% humidity for a week will ruin a 

cigar. There's no question about that. Yeah.

355

But there is nothing that that hurts the 

smoking experience more. I would rather a cigar be

356

50% humidity than be 80% humidity. Agreed. 100%. 

Agreed. 100%. Yep. And especially heavier tobacos,

357

right? Yeah. So I I think humidification 

in general is one of these things that

358

I think we've we consumers way over worry about 

it and you know if in the and I'm telling this

359

on a humidification company podcast, but for me, the worry is more about cigars being over-

360

humidified than under-humidified and the 

point being if you take a, you know, a Ziploc

361

bag, you know, maybe a 4- or 5-mil Ziploc 

bag, like a good quality one, not a Ziploc,

362

but like a, you know, like like the bags you use 

for your Boveda packs. Yeah, for sure. If you

363

if you put a if you put a Boveda in there, there's 

no reason. And you keep it in a cool, dark place,

364

there's no reason why that one little, you know, 

kind of 18–20 gram pack can't last six months.

365

Oh, maybe even longer or more. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

I mean, that's the whole that's the whole science

366

behind our, you know, our humidor bags. You could 

put I had a customer, a shop owner, who was

367

like reordering after a couple years of getting 

through a distributor of ours and I he's like,

368

"Is there anything new or something I haven't 

had before?" And I said, "Well, have you ever

369

tried the you know, the humidor bags? They 

can be a nice add-on to get your customer

370

to buy some more cigars because now they have 

something to store it in." And he said, "Well,

371

it's funny you should mention that.'" He said, 

"Because a buddy of mine just invited me to go

372

golf. And so I dug my golf clubs out from the back 

of the garage. Hadn't played in over 2 years.

373

And he got to the golf course and he's digging 

through the side pockets. And lo and behold,

374

in one of the side pockets was one of our small 

humidor bags that he hadn't touched for 2 1/2   years. And that pack was still easily half 

full of solution. And his cigars were perfect.

375

and he's like, "I had the best round ever cuz 

now I have cigars that I didn't know I had." So

376

now he's smoking on the golf course. It's just 

fantastic. Same exact thing happened to me this

377

year. And we live in Minnesota, so you know how 

I mean it gets cold and it and there's almost no

378

humidity in the winter time. It's dry. I had a 

small humidor bag in my golf bag in my garage,

379

which you know gets down to around 40ish degrees 

in the evenings. And I had it sitting in there

380

with 3 cigars and an 8-gram Boveda pack from 

I would have been November until I played for the

381

first time in March. So we're talking 5 months. 

And I opened up and thought, man, these are, you

382

know, the pack's going to be depleted. You know, 

it's going to be bad. These cigars are going to

383

be beyond repair. And I took it out of there and 

there was still there was still water, there was

384

still solution in that pack and the cigars were 

in perfect shape. I lit one up, smoked the entire

385

thing through, didn't have a single issue with it. 

Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah, they do their job. And you know,

386

I think one thing a lot of people a lot of people 

don't know because we're they're uneducated is,

387

you know, the relative aspect of relative 

humidity, right? So, right. Yeah. Your story your

388

story there being that it was 40 or 50 degrees 

in the garage, not 130 makes a big difference,

389

you know. Exactly. Yeah. Yep. All right. But my, 

you know, going back to my point is is that like

390

for me, you know, people, if you're going 

through a lot of, if you're having to replace

391

your Humidi-Paks on a on a a regular basis, to me, 

that is a signal that whatever container you're

392

storing it in is the problem, not the not the or 

or whatever ambient condition you're storing it

393

in is the problem. Yeah. Because if you put 

4 or 5, you know, kind of 69% packs in a

394

in a humidor. I mean, I think we have like 

an OpusX humidor at the office. We, or you know,

395

I come back to the office every 3, 4, 5 

months and you know, they can they can go in

396

our office they can sit you know for 8 months 

a year without the packs drying out. Right. For

397

sure. Yeah. So, yeah. So, I've always, you know, 

I've always been I've never I've never been

398

a person that collects a lot of cigars, like, you 

know, if you start getting into like tubs of boxes

399

of cigars and you have to kind of go to beads and 

all those things. I've never been that person.

400

And I had a I had like a 50- or 75-count Diamond Crown humidor that I had for years. And you know, every

401

now and then I'd buy a box of cigars that kind 

of filled it up, but generally I would kind of

402

get bored of them, you know, because I'm the kind 

of guy who will pick up like two of these, two of

403

these and buy like 35 or 40 different cigars over 

a week, you know? Yeah, for sure. Same. So even

404

though I was smoking seven, eight, you know, 

6, 7, 8 cigars a day, I, you know,

405

I never really had a huge collection of 

cigars, until I had a store, until I had a factory,

406

until I had a, you know, a company. So for 

me, you know, a really good thick Ziploc bag that

407

can keep the cigars for 4 or 5 days was 

all, you know, 30 or 40 cigars was always more

408

than enough for me. And so, the Boveda, the white Boveda packs for me were kind of like, you know, the

409

early easy solution. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Skip, 

what was the shop that you used to have,

410

is it still in operation run by a new owner 

or did you No, it got it got wiped out by

411

Hurricane Ike. Oh, you're kidding. Okay. Yeah. 

412

led to starting RoMa Craft because I was going to 

open a new store and then just decided, you know,

413

I I didn't want to really be chained to a register 

anymore. Yeah. Sure. How many years did you run

414

the own the shop? Uh, it was it it was uh about 

2 1/2 years, almost 3 years. Okay.

415

Yeah. Wow. All right. So, I told JP I was going 

to ask this question, so I'm I'm going to shift

416

gears. Uh, I'll use this word as a seeming 

connoisseur of flip flops. What is the current

417

flip flop gracing your feet nowadays? I have 

and when I say this number, you're going to say

418

it's bullsh*t but it's 100%. It's probably a low 

number. I have about 30 pairs of these OluKais. Oh,

419

is that what it is? Dude, I don't know why I 

thought you were gonna say OluKai. Yeah, they make

420

they make quality stuff, man. I like their stuff. 

Yeah. Uh I I went through I I don't even want to

421

admit I went through a Croc period because Jerry 

Cruz kind of got me into that for about a month

422

or whatever. And I figured if it was good enough 

for for nurses, it was good enough for me. Yeah.

423

Right. And then I did Birkenstocks for a little 

while, but they they hurt the top of my feet. So,

424

I really like these, especially when you have a 

bunch of them and you trade, you know, you kind of

425

trade in and out. They last a long, long time. 

Oh yeah. It's funny you say Birkenstocks. One of

426

the one of the careers I guess you could 

say I had before coming to Boveda was I ran

427

a Birkenstock store for 10 years and sold them 

more than 20 years at various retail shops. And

428

those OluKais when they first came out, the shop I 

worked for actually brought them in because they

429

had the similar, you know, feel on the bottom 

to what a pair of Birkenstocks feels like. So

430

that's funny you say that. I had at one point, 

I don't know, 45 different pairs of Birkenstocks

431

that I had. My kids wore them. You know, it's 

kind of a perfect plus plus you're in Minnesota,

432

so you wore them with socks. I sure did for quite 

a number of years. I sure did. And that's my kids

433

are now doing that again. Like that's a thing 

again. So it's like about every 10 years they come

434

come in and back around and then they're super 

popular again. That's awesome, man. You know,

435

one of the one of the things they teach in the 

military is take care of your feet, right? Oh,

436

yeah. Yeah, dude. Well, it's the guy that I worked 

for retired as a naval commander. He was, so

437

this shop owner got into Birkenstocks because he 

was just ruining his feet training for marathons

438

running on the decks of aircraft carriers. And so 

he discovered Birkenstock makes inserts for your

439

shoes. That was actually their original product. 

Yeah. And he put them in his shoes and his feet

440

didn't hurt anymore. And so when his mom wanted to start a business, he's like, "You know what? Let's

441

do this." And so he opened up these Birkenstock 

stores and did that for well over 30 years.

442

But yeah, he was, I think, part of the first 

graduating class of Top Gun School. So he flew,

443

you know, during Vietnam, but that's where he came 

out of the military and that's where he got into

444

that product. So all right, Skip with everybody 

that we bring on. It's more light-hearted. What

445

is a story or you can tell us multiple stories 

that have happened for you over the last you know

446

whatever 15, 16 years with RoMa that is a funny 

story, like a comical story that you like to tell

447

people about if you're you know having a cigar 

and or a drink and or having dinner or something

448

that you can tell us because we love hearing 

funnies. I don't know like, you know, it's like

449

jokes. It's like, if you, hey tell me a joke, it's 

hard to remember one but once the jokes start you

450

know one reminds you of the next one. Yeah. Yep. 

I mean you know there's a lot of there's a lot of

451

great, that's one of the things about this you 

know you go back to the trade show and then you

452

see people and then you, oh, you remember, hey back 

when this happened and um there's there's a lot

453

of really great stories. You know, I'll 

save one for the next, I'll save, I'll remember one

454

for the next. I'm sure we start drinking together 

somewhere. I'll start telling stories

455

and it up. We'll get the voice recorder out and 

then we'll we'll we'll I was trying to think I was

456

trying to think of a something that related to, I 

remember one of my first times in New Orleans with

457

with the Boveda guys. And I end up telling 

this story all the time to new guys at Boveda.

458

A friend of mine, he's a doctor. He's the 

one that actually introduced me to Tim and Sean.

459

um my my buddy, Joe Amet and they actually 

knew Joe before they knew me. This would have

460

been like early 2000s or maybe maybe like 05 

or 06. But so I got to know him and then we

461

had a trade show in New Orleans which I I don't 

462

And we ended up at this place with all the all 

the Boveda guys called Bourbon Cowboy and

463

they had they had a mechanical bull and Dellas 

I don't know if everybody knows Dellas but when Oh

464

dude Oh, we love Dellas, man. He's the best. Do 

was completely shitfaced and on this mechanical

465

bull and it's like surprised. There's not there's 

not even there's not even like a funny like story,

466

but every time everyone was there goes, "Oh man, 

I totally remember that and it was the one of the

467

funniest things ever when he rode the bull." Yeah. 

When he rode the mechanical bull. Did he go flying

468

off that thing or what? Or did he stay on for? 

Man, he did he did everything you can imagine.

469

He did it backwards, you know. He was humping it. 

He was, I think, I think at one part, I think

470

at one point, he took his shirt off. Oh, that's 

awesome. That is awesome, man. But you can you

471

can ask you can ask Tim or Sean about that. 

But that's one of my great memories with the

472

Boveda guys. Oh my God, dude. Thank you for telling 

us that because I'll never not tell Dellas about

473

it and bring it up to him when I see it. Ask him 

about Bourbon Cowboy. Bourbon Cowboy. Let's let's

474

text him about it right after this. We'll text 

him right after. Yeah. Oh, dude. That's awesome. Thanks

475

for sharing that. That's fantastic. Awesome. Tim 

is actually in the office with us here today.

476

We'll have to go down there and go. So, we heard 

a little bit about Bourbon Cowboy. Can you, well...

477

What's crazy is like for for 20 years, every 

time I see him, I I mention it, right? And so,

478

I'm sure he's like sick of hearing it was like, 

"Oh, yeah, Skip always tells that story." But,

479

and it's not even really a story. It's like, 

"Hey, do you remember that time with Dulles at

480

Bourbon Cowboy?" Like, every time I see him, like 

that that's where he's at in my memory, you know?

481

I wonder if, I wonder if that place is still 

around. Anybody know? I don't know. No,

482

it's been like three other things since then, 

I think. Okay, gotcha. I wonder if the bull's

483

still there? Yeah, right. It it just stayed with 

the bar. Yeah, you never know. I think maybe the

484

bull is with the insurance related to the bull 

is what closed the whole thing down. Yeah,

485

that's definitely possible. Probably because of 

Dellas in 05 or 06 or whatever. Yeah, right. God,

486

that's awesome. Remember that one guy? We had 

to close the bar because of that guy. It was

487

wild. Back then then no matter how 

you know rough the night was everybody was right

488

on the trade show you know the next next day you 

know for me now if if I stay out late I can come

489

into the trade show late you know I don't have 

to be there at... Yep. You know, well, I will tell you

490

Dellas still shows up right on time. Yep. Dressed 

to the nines, no matter how late we've been up

491

always rocking a bow tie yeah we love Dellas, he's 

he's he's good people man but you know we've had

492

a we've had a long you know you know I mean I 

a friendship really more than anything I was a

493

consumer and then when I had a store I, you know, 

I really was a believer in kind of, you know, back

494

then it was the I think it was just the 72% white 

Humidi-Pak. Yep. And I was believer in that and then

495

you know I had a friend of mine that made humidors 

and I would I think I before you guys even did

496

it, I was designing a thing that would hold 

Humidi-Paks. I was designing humidors around the

497

humidification. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, 

of course, when we started making cigars again,

498

because of the over-humidification problem, not 

the under-humidification problem, you know, we

499

we we were one of the first to really really push 

for you guys to to get because the Free Zones,

500

there were cigar people, I think, in, there 

may have been a manufacturer in Nicaragua that

501

was doing Bovedas before we were. I don't I don't 

know. But if they were, they were a Free Zone

502

and they were importing them themselves. Sure. But 

I know for a fact that we really really pushed, I

503

mean, this must have been 10 or 10 or 12 years ago. 

We really pushed to get you guys to distribute

504

Yep. to import and kind of distribute the Humidi-Paks

here. Yeah. And I tried a bunch

505

of different things, but I think I'm the one that 

maybe connected you guys with the 3A. Yeah,

506

that sounds right. Yeah, and that's been a great 

relationship. So, it's yeah, the gratitude

507

we have for you and Mike and RoMa Craft has been it goes it goes deep. So, we appreciate all that

508

you do for us. Thank you for coming on and taking 

the time out of your day to sit and have a cigar

509

and shoot the sh*t with us. We really 

appreciate it very much. Yeah, of course, man.

510

It was good seeing you guys at the trade show. 

We had a we had a great conversation with...

511

With Drew. With Drew. I think, I think it went 

long a lot longer than he had wanted it to, but I

512

could have gone for another 2 hours. We were we 

were in we were getting into a lot of subjects.

513

Yeah. So, appreciate you inviting me. Absolutely. Well, enjoy enjoy making your

514

dinner. It's always fun to see your pictures 

looking out over the water and enjoying a good

515

meal. So, uh, enjoy time with your family 

tonight and have a good weekend. Yeah,

516

you too, guys. Appreciate it, Skip. 

Thank you. Yeah, thanks. Appreciate it,

517

brother. And now that we're here at the end, 

Skip, I picked up the same cigar, but you know,

518

Saber Tooth and Aquitaine. Is the difference in the 

Saber Tooth just the barber pole on the wrapper,

519

or are there other differences in 

the cigar as well, just that wrapper?

520

The only difference is is there's about a half of 

a Connecticut wrapper underneath the Havana

521

wrapper. Gotcha. And then one more question 

because I smoke through it way faster than I

522

thought I would. I picked up from the shop 

that's right by my house, Ramsey Smoke Shop.

523

Omar is one of my, just become one of my closest 

friends, since taking this job at Boveda. So I picked

524

up a box of the CRAFT, this year's CRAFT. The 2026, yeah. And is that all apart from the differences in the

525

wrappers and the design, is are the internal 

guts of all those cigars the same? Yeah,

526

the filler's the same, but and and really the 

binder's the same, but the some of them have

527

double wrappers. You know, so all the everything 

you see on the outside is different. This

528

year's CRAFT, the actual inside of 

the cigar, is is the same blend as Maestranza. Oh,

529

it is. Oh, dude. That's awesome. Maestranza is f*#%ing great, man. Yeah. So, instead of using Broadleaf, we use

530

San Andrés and Connecticut and Candela and 

then there is some Habano and there is some,

531

there is some Habano and there is also some 

Pennsylvania Broadleaf, but for the most part

532

it's basically like a dressed up Maestranza. Oh, 

that's awesome. Yeah. Very good cigar by the way.

533

Nate shared one with me. Great. Yeah. Delicious. 

Yeah. I mean, that's an example of a cigar that,

534

it's weird because if it dries too much, then like 

the embellishments start to peel off. Sure. But

535

if it's too wet, it doesn't smoke good at all. 

So, that's one of those cigars where it really

536

has to be, you know, 67 kind of on the dot to 

to really smoke the right way. Yeah. Which is

537

actually about the atmosphere like when you when 

I smoked it. 100%. Yes. It burned perfectly. Yeah,

538

they were great. Yeah. But anyway, yeah, actually 

when I picked these up, these boxes from Omar,

539

I was like, "Do you happen to have any more of 

those?" He's like, "No, they're all the other

540

4 you had were already paid for and spoken 

for." Immediately. I'm like, "No worries." Yeah. Well, we have,

541

I don't know if they're all spoken for, but I 

know like today we're shipping another, because we

542

had a problem with the leather belts. Okay. So, 

and so we we ended up, so 2 things happened.

543

One we ended up having about 190 boxes that 

we couldn't ship that we were waiting on the

544

belts to be fixed. Okay. But then the other 

thing that happened was when cuz some of this

545

when you sort out the Segundos, you don't end up 

having equal numbers of all the designs. Mhm. So

546

I think there's like maybe 50 bundles of like you 

know this one design is all the, you know, the 10-

547

count bundle is all this one design. Yep. But I know Mike is getting some of those. So,

548

I would just tell your retailer, "Hey, call Mike 

and see, you know, whatever design you, you know,

549

whichever one." I like the one that's almost, 

you know, all dark. But you, you can say, "Hey,

550

you know, have your retailer call Mike and see if 

he can get, you know, a couple of those bundles

551

for you." Oh, that'd be awesome. I'm going to see 

Omar this afternoon, so I'll ask him. Yeah,

552

he'll pick some up. Yeah, you know, he will. Yeah, 

for sure. you know, to the point, you know,

553

the point about, you know, what humidity those 

cigars function really well at. I think there

554

it's another misconception around humidity that's 

worth saying is that different cigars perform

555

better at different humidity levels. For sure. 

Yeah. You know, I think there's a humidity you

556

make cigars at, there's a humidity you age cigars 

at, and there's a humidity you store them at,

557

and then there's a humidity you smoke them at, and 

all those numbers are different. But, for example,

558

you know how you would never put, you know, 

ACID Blondies in the same humidor as, you know,

559

Ashton. Yeah. Classics or whatever, right? 

Because, you know, then all your Ashtons would

560

taste like ACID, right? Yeah. You also probably 

shouldn't have, you know, your Ecuador Connecticut

561

cigars from the Dominican in the same humidor 

with your San Andrés cigars from Nicaragua. Yes,

562

because because one, I mean, you know, Ecuador

Connecticut cigars are a lot more delicate, but

563

they're also very, um, hygroscopic, meaning they 

absorb and release humidity really fast. And so,

564

if you have your Ecuador Connecticut 

cigars that are a little bit on the dry side,

565

you can get them humid pretty quickly. Or 

if they're a little bit on the wet side,

566

you can dry them out pretty quickly. But if 

a cigar if, like you have a really dense 60-ring

567

gauge, you know, Maestranza, for example or Neanderthal, it's not going to humidify really fast. You

568

know, it might get the outside humid but the cigar 

itself is not going to humidify quickly and it's

569

also going to release humidity pretty slowly, right?

So and also performs at a much lower humidity.

570

You know, you can keep a cigar at 70–72% in a 

retail humidor because, you know, you're picking

571

up cigars, you're handling them, you're moving 

them, you don't want them to be damaged. So, the

572

retailer will keep them actually over-humidified. 

Yep. But if you buy a Connecticut cigar, by

573

the time you cut it and light it and you walk into 

the lounge, it's already releasing humidity. Yep.

574

Yeah. For sure. So, by the time you get halfway 

through the cigar, it's already starting to dry

575

out, right? If the environment is dry. So, 

but if you, you know, you may need you, people

576

talk about dry boxing cigars. That's what they're 

saying is they're saying that the humidity

577

that a retailer stores a dense, heavy cigar at is 

intentionally high and you really need to kind of

578

leave it out on your dresser or in a dry box for a 

day or 2 before you smoke it to kind of get the

579

humidity down to a level that makes more sense. 

Yeah, for sure. And that's another thing I like

580

about Boveda, how they make different percentages, 

right? Yep. Because you could have a humidor that

581

has all real heavy cigars that has a 6[5]% or a 62% 

pack. And then you might have a humidor that

582

has a, you know, a [69]% pack. Yeah, for sure. 

Yep. Yeah. JP and I did an experiment. I,

583

I did it twice. And then we did it with 

me JP, Vlad Stojanov. Have you met

584

Vlad? And and then was it Dave from Small 

Batch. And we had stored Vlad's Connecticut cigar

585

in 3 different humidor bags at Small Batch 

with 65, 69, and 72%. We did it for about 6 weeks

586

and then everything got shipped out in like 

packs to us, all blind, in their own containers

587

and we smoked them all side-by-side to see which 

one had like the best flavor, kind of the best aroma, all

588

of those things. And so where is it? Where's that 

cigar made at? Uh, boy, that's a good question. I

589

forget where Vlad is having his cigars made. Is 

it KBF? Oh God, I'm not sure. I want to say it's

590

the Dominican. Yes, Dominican. Yeah. And it's, 

and it's, and where does he distribute them from?

591

Is he distributed out of...? That's a good question. 

Yeah. And that I'm not sure. So, so, so if you ask

592

me like what's which one of those 3 cigars 

performed better, I want to know where it was

593

made, what kind of tobacco was made of. Sure. How 

how it got from the factory to the United States,

594

and how long it took from the time it got to the 

United States to the time you put it in the Boveda

595

bag. Yeah. And that adds a lot to it. Yeah. Yeah. 

But my guess, and again, you know, hey, this cigar

596

is not burning, right? Well, like I 100% tell I'm 

telling you it happened after it left the factory,

597

right? Sure. Yeah. you know. Yeah. But but you 

know, so if I, this is an Ecuador Connecticut

598

cigar, you said. Yes. And what's the brand? Uh 

Somm cigars. Yeah. So my guess is is that it has a

599

lot of Dominican filler, right? Yep. Which is not 

super high priming. And it's a very hygroscopic

600

wrapper. So, I would say, I would say that I would 

want to make that cigar in a pretty high humidity.

601

Cuz if if the filler's too dry, for example, 

it'll break when you when you press it and it

602

turns into a short filler cigar, right? Sure. A 

lot of people don't realize that. So I would

603

say I would probably store that cigar at 70–72, 

but I would probably smoke it at 68. Right. Yep.

604

Yep. It's funny though, like we ended up finding 

that the... So, they they all burned wonderfully.

605

Yeah, they all did well. Yeah, they all burned 

wonderfully and I think we found that 72% was our

606

favorite. All 4 of us, I believe. Yeah. And I 

think when we like used that little HumidiMeter on

607

the foot of each of the cigars, it was closer to 

like 70, 70% and then the others a little bit lower

608

than that. But yeah, it was very interesting to 

kind of see how each one was very different. Yeah,

609

it was a cool experiment. Yeah, the exper the 

experience of smoking each of them. I think we all

610

ended up liking 72%. Also Ecuador Connecticut is more bitter the drier it is, right? Yep. And I think that's

611

what we found on that second go round. But 

yeah, it was an interesting experiment. I will say,

612

I tend to store like cigars with like cigars, like 

you were saying. You know, if it's... When people say

613

to me 70/70 is the rule, I'm like, well, you must 

614

Exactly. The rule, really for me, I always say 

is 130 or 125. And what I mean is if you add your

615

temperature and humidity together, 125 is about 

where you want to be. Sure. Yeah. So, you know,

616

if you're the kind of, you know, you 

can go you can go over 125, but you don't really

617

want to go below 125. Sure. Interesting. I've 

never heard that. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome.

618

Cool, man. Enjoy the rest of your day. I again 

appreciate your time, Skip. Yeah. Thanks a lot.

619

Yeah, absolutely, guys. I'm happy to fill in. 

And so now I have to spend the rest of the

620

day in the swimming pool and walking my 

dog. Oh, it sounds awful. Just terrible.