Drop in with Noah & Eréndira for an open-hearted, conversational flow. Together, they explore:

• Safety & trust in collaboration
• What it feels like to be witnessed mid-creative process
• The impact of colonialism on the body's experience of being seen
• Stretching one’s capacity for being perceived
• Hopes for how this podcast might support listeners

…and much more.

🧪 This episode's Lab Partners :

• Noah — 1/4 Splenic Projector
• Eréndira — 5/2 Emotional Manifestor

You can find more about them—and their other lab partners—at kelseyrosetort.com/labpartners, including bodygraphs, natal charts, and ways to connect with their work.

💖 Stay tuned: New episodes of LAB PARTNERS are released weekly-ish, usually on the Moon’s day.

Intro & Music by Noah Souder-Russo

The laboratory is a space of intimacy and mirroring.

I'm just gonna rip with it and anyone wants to come out, something's happening. I was just thinking that.

A lab.

Partner is someone who I can share.

My incomplete, uncooked, unfinished work with.

Laboratory feels like laboratory in general is a womb space for all of we are mothering and creation kind of. I'm having an embodied experience vibrant in this container so far. Relating in ways that feel energetically congruent for me.

Relating to other people and relating to myself and in collaborative community as a.

Human will help me find the lightness and like the humor.

The creative process is fucking dope and also it's fucking like humbling.

To fall.

Apart and be witnessed by all of us.

Laboratory.

A laboratory.

A laboratory is an incubator, a place to generate, to initiate, to guide, to.

Mirror collaboratory stretching my capacity.

Lab Partners is a behind the scenes conversation series amongst eight folks who are in a season of experimentation with creativity, authenticity, relationship, collaboration and visibility. We're letting you in on our processes as we unpack them together.

Each of us speak the language of human design and some of us astrology too. These frameworks for awareness have supported our embodied differentiation and relational understanding.

We invite listeners to observe us through these lenses too.

Today's conversation is between me, Erindarra 5:2.

Emotional manifestor and me, Noah 1:4, splenic projector.

You can learn about our astrology and designs in the show notes and find even more about us and our other collaborators@kelseyrosetort.com LabPartners okay, so now we're recording. Now we're recording as opposed to last week when I thought we were recording.

And we had this beautiful hour plus conversation that was just for us. It was just for us though. So.

Yeah, which it was sweet for me because I. Yeah, it was the first time we really got to connect one on one. So I was, yeah, I was really happy just to share that time with you and I guess it wasn't meant for anyone else aside from us and God love that.

Wow. So we're back and we're going to try to see what comes out are mind, body, spirits. That's like wanting to be shared with lab partners listeners.

So yeah, Aaron, Dara, you were saying right before we got on. Well, what I was hearing of like how, how far last week feels and some. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean it's just, it's. It's just, some of it's just life, right? Like life apart from the creative process.

Like I have a toddler and she just, you know, is toddler transition stages. And so she didn't sleep last week. So my brain just did not function the way that it would normally function.

So after we had that conversation, I mean, I was tired last week on Monday. And then she just proceeded to like not keep slee the rest of the week. And so as the week went on, my brain was like, I don't know what's happening.

And so it feels like. So like when your brain is not functioning properly, sometimes it's like, what is time? Like what is space? You know?

So a little bit for me was just this is like the parenting part that gets layered on top of. Of the creative process or the creative being. Right. Like, I can't quite separate that.

So then like my creativity and like whatever story I'm in with that just kind of gets blurry, I guess because of, because of life. But then you just told me that you moved too. So like that's a lot that happened for you too.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. So different maybe form of.

There's been a lot of like parenting of myself through the move, um, and being born into a new space and timeline and version of myself. Um, yeah, I. In like, yes, I'm in. I'm in Brooklyn and you and I have like chatted about this of like, yeah, I've been without.

I left a home that I shared with a partner that was in a long term relationship about two years ago. And so I've been kind of bopping around for two years and a friend of mine was moving in with her girlfriend and like leaving their apartment.

And so kind of some of one of the ways that that like New York real estate goes is like, yeah, apartments get passed down.

Right, Right.

Yeah. So like I was, I was blessed with the, with the passed down. And so it happened very quickly. Yeah.

And so like navigating and holding this like life transition, is that. Has that been affecting kind of the way that you're thinking about your own creativity and creative process and creative output?

Mm, yeah, I think there's been a lot.

There's been like, I would say like, I don't say like internal creativity, but there has been like creativity in the narratives that I'm telling myself. And that has been, I would say like my practice for the past week.

So like, aside from the actual material of like, I don't have a desk set up and you know, my music stuff is packed away and yeah, all my records are in boxes and you know, I just got Internet and you know, these kind of maybe like Foundational pieces. Yeah, there is. There's just been. There's just been a lot of curiosity. And I think also this. This eclipse kind of really highlighted some of the.

I'll say that more kind of like victim consciousness e. Stories, you know, that I. That I move with and. Yeah, and just like. Yeah, and so lots of. Yeah, just like this aspiration to, like, orient to everything as.

As growth, you know, and as like, getting curious about what I'm learning through this. Through this particular experience. And so that has just. That has been really strong for me. And in the past week of just. Yeah.

Kind of like watching my mind hop back into habitual patterns of, like, lots of, like, Virgo sun kind of like perfectionists or like, this could be better kind of vibes. And then. Yeah, and then. And then also. Yeah, right.

Like, kind of like narratives of that are like, very tinged with shame and blame or looking outside of myself or blame myself. You know what I mean? Like, lots of, like. Lots of like. Like victim conscious, but also just like, lots of self harm in a way. And I just started.

I started, like, what is the beginning of what may turn into a chaplaincy program with the New York Zen center for Contemplative Care here.

And we talked in our orientation in our first weekend about vows, and I kind of very, like, flippantly or very confidently was like, yeah, you know, I take a vow to. Because I take precepts. I take Buddhist precepts. And so, like, you know, it's. So much of it about it, in my interpretation is like, around non harm.

And I was like, yeah, I take a vow to, like, try and reduce harm, you know, as much. And then I sat with it as it came out of my mouth, and I was like, oh, interesting. Like, I'm trying not to step on bugs, but I'm over here.

Yeah, causing myself a lot of harm. Right. Yeah, so there's just been. There's been loud as fuck.

Yeah.

You know, so. Yeah, so that I think that has been really. Yeah. The creativity around writing new narratives and.

And telling myself, you know, different stories about. About what's occurring as there has been. Yeah, a lot of. A lot of material shifts and things that have been really challenging as well. So.

Yeah, so that's been my practice. But it has felt.

Not that it is separate from collaboratory, but I think I have felt a little just in the swirl of that and so less kind of rooted to be in more of a kind of participatory relationship with our actual container of collaboratory, you know, and it's like, also not separate. And I know that this will as it is in this moment, you know, merging with collaboratory and. Yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, no, I actually was thinking about that, um, because I forgot that we were recording. I was, like, thinking on the.

I was leaving the gym, like, driving back, like, as, you know, quickly and safely as possible, and I was like, oh, it's so interesting.

You know, like, two weeks ago, when we, like, first were talking about, you know, making this episode, like, these themes felt really, like, alive and urgent, even, you know, of, like, oh, my gosh, we have to, like, talk about this. I think probably because we had just, like, stepped into collaboratory, and so, like, that was just feeling, like, really, like, like, live.

And I was, you know, like, driving, and I was like, what were we even going to talk about? You know, Like, I think last week we captured it, but then, like, this week is just like, oh, like, that feels distant. Not in.

Like, not in, like, it doesn't matter anymore. But just that, like, what's. Like, what's in front of me right now is. Just feels so different than, like, what felt so alive, like, two weeks ago.

But as you were talking, it was, like. It was like, coming back to me, right? Of, like, oh, yeah, this. The theme of, like, the vulnerability of allowing yourself to be visibly in process.

Right. Or, like, how do we kind of, like, hold these, like, internal shifts that are related to our creativity?

Like, how much of that when, like, yeah, like, to what extent do we allow others to perceive us as we're, like, moving through, like, our own emotional landscape, which is, like, ultimately, you know, I think for all of us.

But I think I particularly feel that for people like me and you, where it's, like, tied to our emotional, like, landscape and our emotional process, it's like the inner world is going to fuel and feed whatever decides to pour out of us.

And so, like, how much of that when, like, yeah, like, how does that get shared with other people so that we don't just, like, drop a creation on folks, like, surprise. You know, here's this thing that I've made that you have, like, no clue, like, what went into it, but also, like, these.

Some of these things are private, and they, like, are, like, being sensed for the first time.

And so, yeah, for me, like, some of that wounding comes up around, like, if I don't understand what I'm sensing, like, it doesn't feel safe to share because I don't want to be, like, misunderstood or misperceived or have stories or narratives or Expectations placed on me while I'm still in a state. State that feels so fluid, you know, Pisces Moon. So, yeah, I don't know.

I guess that was just what was coming up for me as I was listening to you and remembering also, like, oh, it is still relevant.

Like, we're both still in processes that are not necessarily tied to collaboratory directly, explicitly, and yet they're going to feed into whatever creation, collaboration. Yeah. Comes out of us.

Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah.

How does it feel for you to, like, even in this moment, to share the fluid in betweenness or the inarticulatable perhaps, or the process, you know, before whatever it forms into.

Yeah. This is something that I have been really attentive and attuned to, I think, in the last couple of months. I think right now it.

For whatever reason, it feels easier, it feels less scary.

I think a lot of it also is coming to understand, like, my emotional authority differently, where I think for a while, not for a while, for many years, I kind of experienced the emotional authority as, like, almost waiting for, like, perfect clarity, even though I knew that, like, there's never any. There's no such thing as, like, perfect emotional clarity.

But I was, like, still kind of always searching for that, you know, I was like, well, if, like, if I can just, like, land in the perfect spot, if I can just get to, like, whatever feels the. Like, whatever is, like, clearest for me indefinitely, then, like, then I'll be able to share.

And I've been reflecting a lot on, like, certain periods of my life in, like, the last five years where I just, like. Like the hold that. That had on me of, like, I can't share what I like. I can't share my feelings. I can't share what I'm going through.

I can't because it's, like, so imperfect. It's so unclear that it really, I think, held me. I think it held me back from, like, relationship, like, interpersonal, but also, like, communal.

I think one of the things that's been coming up for me in, like, collaboratory is, like, as I've, like, been speaking about these, like, projects that I'm juggling, and I'm like, yeah, I don't. I don't quite know. We're like, here's a piece over here. There's a piece over there.

It's like, in allowing myself to be witnessed by others, it's like, that's when, like, the clarity actually, like, things start to come into place, you know, but, like, the more I, like, hold it, like, it's like so precious. Like no one could ever possibly understand this thing is like when it becomes even more foggy and more muddy and like it's like.

Yeah, it slips through my fingers. So I'm working right now. I think your question is.

I'm working on just saying the thing and also just trusting that whatever consequence unfolds is whatever is gonna unfold. And trying to prevent consequence means that then there's like no life being lived. Right. So that I have. I have to put things out there.

I have to share whatever is in process. Because like that then allows life to continue to do whatever it wants to be doing. Yeah. Reminded me of something that you were sharing.

I don't know if it was last week or at some other point but just like. Of like being this like vessel, like hoard. What do you say? Like hoarding. Hoarding God's gifts or like however you shared it.

Just that kind of click that's kind of like made that click to that statement. So where are you at with that statement?

Yeah, right. I forget what it was, but it was like it's something about hoarding. God. Yeah. I was sharing about all of the songs that I have on.

On my computer that I've made, you know, that I've just like only. That just only exist on my itunes. And that also feels like a. You know, that's also representative of a lot of. A lot of other things.

So yeah, I really resonate with what you're sharing even as a non emotional authority like that there is.

There is something that happens whether it is through just like the witnessing from others, whether through some sort of mirroring, whether some like just even the. Even like my own process of hearing what is coming through me. That there is kind of like that. That can lead towards more clarity.

And then I think that there's something about the intimacy that really kind of turned. Turns me on, you know that it is like so close. It's like messy and it's so just like.

It's like it's emerging in this moment and it's like I'm not quite sure where it's going. Like I'm walking this. I'm like on this fence and I'm just like not quite sure.

It's very kind of like narrow and slippery and there's something that I just like. I don't know, I just fudgeing love about that I think. You know.

And so yeah, I mean and maybe part of it is because like I feeling others hearts in process and in. In. In. In non perfect in the perfection of non perfection kind of thing, you know, that I can, can really feel. Yeah, I can feel myself in it.

It feels like, yeah, there's a, there's like a connection that happens. And so for myself, yeah, I'm, I'm into it. I think I'm into it. Like the, you know, the, the messiness of it. So, like, where am I at with it?

I'm just like, I'm just like more, you know. You know, I'm kind of, I'm in a bit of a. Just like, it's not even greed, but it's just like. Yeah, it's like more, more of that. Like how.

Yeah, what are the different avenues to access that, you know, in ourselves and, and with each other? And like. Yeah, what do we need?

Like, what do I need to feel, like, safe enough and, and trust enough and comfortable enough to, to be in that kind of intimate, messy, fluid space? And maybe it's just something I need to, you know, find within myself. Or maybe it's an intuitive, you know, yeah, okay, I can do that.

But this person can't do that. But this person. I'm not sure, you know?

Yeah, I guess maybe, like, say a little bit more about that, about, like, the safety and the trust, because I think that's, like, it feels really integral. Like, it feels really important, but I'm not sure, like, how. Yeah, like, how do we find?

Is it that, like, we have to be secure enough in ourselves that, like, then, then the safety and the trust is just kind of, like, innate? Or is it, like, do we have to have the right container? Or is it both? Or is it, like, not even either of those? I, I, I'm.

Because I also feel like this container feels like, I mean, we're basically strangers, right? Like, for anyone listening, it's like, it's. I mean, some of you all know each other, but I didn't really know anyone. I've had, like.

And even with Kelsey, like, Kelsey and I had had, like, maybe two conversations before this. Like, I don't really know anyone. And yet there is, like, something about the container.

Whether that's, you know, the way Kelsey's holding it or the way that we've all entered into it or the, that we all have kind of, like shared human design language, or, like, there's something there that's, like, created, something where I'm like, okay, cool. Like, I will just let myself be witnessed. But I think it was also that I was like, okay, I'm gonna let myself be witnessed.

Like, I'm not gonna hold back because I like, this container is like maybe part of how I'm going to experiment with that. And so I'm really going to allow myself to experiment with it.

But like, it's not like I necessarily was like, oh, I'm like safe and secure and so now I'm going to enter this space. Right. It was actually like, I actually feel very safe and insecure. Thus I'm going to enter this space and see what happens.

But it was like something with like all of us kind of coming in. Maybe not with that same story, but similar enough stories where we were like, okay, like we're just gonna like fuck around and find out.

See what happens when we just like don't. And we like don't mask, essentially.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What did Kelsey say? Like something almost like a bunch of non third lines. Like third lining this shit. Right? I really feel that. I really feel that.

Yeah. Well, I think that that piece is, is exactly it for me. Like the piece of like.

It's not that I need certain or I guess in this case it's like the safety comes in each of our vulnerabilities. You know, the safety comes in that shared kind of vulnerability. And then I'm like, oh, cool, okay.

And I think for me it' like part of my wounding of being like. Or like navigating interpersonal relationships and just being like too much. Right.

This is like, I think it's like classic projector shit as well of just being like too much too deep, blah, blah, blah, too whatever. And so, yeah, coming into, into the space where I'm just like, oh, everyone, everyone is about. Everyone's about their, their business.

You know what I mean? And even Kelsey thing of like everyone has this, I think a certain level of awakeness awareness and. Right.

And so we can share in that from a consciousness perspective and also like from you know, some of these cosmologies and systems that we, we, we can speak in. And also.

Yeah, and also there's such a, an inspiration like when I, when I receive you, you know, your voice notes on the Discord that, you know, it unlocks something in me. Whether. Whether that's like.

Whether that's like a clear kind of like insight or whether that's just like heart kind of just like a little meltiness of the, you know, the crust, like softening a little bit and then it's like, okay, cool, we can.

Yeah, this is, this is a place to, you know, and it's like I, I like in that moment, I actually don't need from Anyone, you know, but it is just that like you're. You're modeling this, this. Yeah. This really open hearted, kind of like in process vulnerability that is like, that in itself feels deeply inspiring.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

As you were sharing that, it.

And then it, you know, kind of reminded me of like the other part that we were dancing around last time of, you know, like, why, why even do Lab partners, like, what is the point of this, this project and this process of like us sharing what it's like to be in process in collaboratory and you know, folks don't have access to. To that discord, which is very intimate. Right.

Like, I think pretty quickly we all just were like, okay, I'm just gonna like send a voice note to these strangers. Just like, not pretend, you know, and like that has just kind of.

It's been layering in such a way where like now we all are just kind of like we're just gonna like say the thing.

But it's like, I think taking that, that idea that I was talking about is like, we're in like this very, like, it's a very safe container and it is contained. Right? Like that word is really important. It is contained.

But there's like something that I think we're also wondering about, like, how do we stretch that beyond this container? Like, how do we begin to allow ourselves to be seen and witnessed by people who maybe don't have that awareness, right?

Who don't share in, like you said, the cosmologies and the systems and. And yet, like we are. We have to be in the world. Like, we're a part of the collective.

Like, we have to, we have to show up and share in ways that go beyond just like the self and like the safe community and the tribe. And so I think, I think that this is kind of an experiment of like what Lab Partners is.

It's like allowing, allowing the strangers, allowing the folks that aren't in collaboratory to begin to also witness us. And you know, like, I'm very aware that like people I don't know are going to be listening to this conversation. Like as I'm talking.

It's like a very meta moment. And I'm also like. And I'm just not gonna like, care. I'm just gonna like, talk and.

Yeah, so I guess like, that's this other piece of like we've been allowing ourselves to be witnessed in, in the intimacy and now it's like a stretch of like, okay, we also want to allow ourselves to be witnessed maybe where that intimacy is A little bit less tangible. Like, we trust that it's still there, but it's not. Like, I don't know who's going to be on the receiving end.

I don't know who's going to be listening. I don't know. Like.

And, like, at some point, it, like, it has to not matter, you know, Like, I have to just trust what is happening between us and trust that, like, that is going to impact and guide whoever it needs to. And if it doesn't, it doesn't. And if it was, again, just for us, then it's just for us. And. Yeah. Yeah.

But I do think that that's kind of why we are coming together in these, like, lab partner conversations, is both to allow others to witness us, but I think also for us to start to stretch in being witnessed by. By strangers in process.

Beautiful. Yeah. So, like, to practice that. Yeah. I'm curious if there is something else that.

And maybe this is, like, forming, and maybe it is just actually just, like, as simple as becoming comfortable with it.

But I'm curious if there is something that you need, that you can identify in order to, like, share outside of the containment, you know, to be witnessed in. In, you know, by the larger collective. And because. Because in our conversations, my senses. And I feel like you've said this.

Is that, like, that's something that you want?

Yeah.

Right. It's something you desire?

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think it's. I think.

I think it's possible that we all experience, like, some degree of, like, I'm too much or I'm too deep or, you know, like, when you. When you have awakened to a particular level, it's like, it's. It's not even that. Like, I don't want to say this.

I usually start to see the world differently. And so it can become hard if you are surrounded by people who are still not seeing the world in a similar way. Right.

Who were maybe, like, in the old cross of planning and are, like, very much like, that's where I want to be. And, like, that's very comfortable for me to be kind of, like, turning towards, like, this next era, this next world.

Worlds that are, like, being birthed. You're like, okay, but now I just sound like, like, I'm loony, you know, like, now, like, you know, I'm like, I'm too much. I'm, like, too deep.

Like, people think I'm, like, too weird or, like, whatever. And if you're constantly surrounded by that, like, it is lonely, but it also, like, starts to create Doubt, right?

Like, you start to doubt what you see and what you know and who you are and what you can create. And so I think, you know, my community wounds have been like, they've been flared up for years.

But being in this space is like, oh, actually I don't need everyone to agree with me. I don't need everyone to like, affirm what I see necessarily. But what it is is like, yeah, it's not that I need to be affirmed in what I see.

I just, like, I just need to be seen. I just, I need to be seen without like, judgment. I need to be seen without correction.

And like, that is something that like, I just like don't experience in my, and in my day to day life. And so in, in allowing myself to just be seen as like, oh, yeah, that's right.

Like, I'm not, like, I'm not as big of a weirdo, you know, Like, I'm actually like, these ideas aren't as out there.

Like, it's actually like, it's actually very like normal and like clear what I like what I see and what I want to do and like how I want to contribute and how I want to move. And so. But I think I was like, my experience with community, like for most of my life has been like, has been.

Sameness has been like to be a part of, to belong means that you have to give up your uniqueness. Like, you have to discard whatever it is that might make you marginal so that you can be in the center.

And if you're not willing to do that, then you're outcast, right? Then you, you cannot belong.

And I think what I'm finding with us is like, it's like we're not coming into this space as like, you have to be this thing. It's like you actually just have to be you. And when you're you, that actually like allows for everyone else to just, just be them.

And so we're like, I don't even know if that's answering your question. Yeah, I'm like.

But I'm like, yeah, I think that's like, it feels less scary because I'm like, oh, I have a group of people that are also just themselves. And so I can just be me because I know that I can just like, I know that I can trust that they're just going to be them.

And so even if the rest of the world is going to like roll their eyes or not understand or whatever, and also those are projections because that's like, like not even true, right? It's like I know that I can come back into this.

Into this space and like, when I forget that, like, I can be met with that knowing of, like, oh, yeah, okay, and now I can go back out and, like, try again. And like, there's just like, something really grounding about being in, like, collaboration and community with each other because. Yeah. I don't know.

I just kind of went off here.

Yeah. But, you know, you do know. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for your knowing. But, like, that's. That's the thing.

For me, it's like your knowing is like your authentic. How I experience your authentic nature. And when I experience your, you know, authenticity, it actually.

It's actually a gift because not only does it allow me to. To come with me, you know, whatever, however I understand my full self, but it. But it actually is also.

It mirrors back to me where I'm stuck in performance or where I'm like, actually not, you know, being true. And I think that that to a larger degree is probably.

Or to a whatever, sideways degree, like, what happens, you know, quote unquote, you know, out there where, like, receiving a lot of people's projections because of their own discomfort of the ways that, like, worship we're showing up authentically. Right. And so it's. It. And like, I don't know. You know, I think.

I think for me, I was having this conversation with a friend yesterday at a party actually, but it was like a daytime dance party, so it was like. It was. There were spaces to, you know, to chat. Anyway, I don't know why that's important. It's fine. But we. Yeah, we were. We were talking about.

Yeah, we're just kind of talking about, like, the gift, like. And he's an Aquarius moon and rising. I think his sun is. Yeah, sun is in Aquarius moon and rising. So he's just like. I just.

He's like such a beautiful mirror to me, actually, because he's just doing him, you know, and he's incredible artist and, you know, and he makes like. He just makes like, music that is, like, so true to him. And it is. It's. It is a beaut. It's such a beautiful gift that I receive because it, like, it.

Yeah, it just.

It shows me where I'm, you know, trying to perform something, you know, because of my own wounds of like, you know, performance being linked to safety, you know. And so, like, like, I feel.

I don't know why safety is a thread in this, but perhaps it is because I think that it's like the more that there is that sense of, like, maybe that own sense of safety, like, in the ways that I am showing up. Because it feels true. Because it feels, you know, like, connected to God. Because it feels. It feels authentic.

There is like, after some time for me, like, there is almost like an, like a. A rooted safety in that, you know, and like. And I, you know, and there is still stuff to.

To work through and there's still nervous systems that get entangled and there's still all, you know, all the projections to wade through and so on. But, like, how cool to get to do that. I don't know. You know, it's like, that's cool to do that together, you know? Yeah.

Yeah. I was. As you were talking, I was, you know, I was thinking about your.

Your Taurus moon and is just thinking about, like, the body part that it's not even just that, like, we, like. I think it's hard because we're in this digital world. And so on some level there's this, like, abstraction of like, self.

Because I can't touch you, right? But I. I do, like, feel like. Or what I'm hearing or feeling. And what you're saying is, like, that there's almost like.

There's like an embodiment aspect of it also. Like. Like, how do we sense each other as, like, bodies, even across, like, the abstraction of like, space? Because. Because it's like.

I don't know what I'm trying to say, but, like, you're not like, the me like, that you're sensing or like, the you that I'm sensing isn't just a face on a screen on my zoom, you know? And I don't just, like, sense your, like, creative spark. Like, I'm not just like, sensing your spirit.

Like, I'm also like, sensing you, like, your body. Like, all of this lives in your body. All of it lives in my body.

And so, like, yeah, there does have to be this, like, groundedness and like, kind of like bringing it back into the body and the safety of the body. I don't know.

I don't know where I'm going with that, but I am like, it's like one thing to like, mentally be like, okay, like, this is safe, you know, or another thing, like, even in my spirit, to be like, okay, this is safe, but like, to feel in my body that this is safe is something that is a totally different experience.

Yeah, yeah. And I think it makes me think about, like, all of the systems that give rise to non safety.

They are like, disembodiment you know, they're mechanisms of disembodiment. They're instruments of, like, keeping us away from our knowing and from our body. So it feels like it makes a lot of sense to me when I hear you. Yeah.

Like, yeah, I think talk about the. The body in that way. Yeah. I would be curious, like, what your. I want to say, like, what. What your, like, relationship is with.

With embodiment or, like, kind of, like, understanding your, like, what moves through somatically, what your. What your experience of, like, being in your body, listening to your body, waiting through what is mental chatter and what is bodily knowing?

That feels like such a wide question.

Yeah.

But maybe your. Your rightness will something. Something out of that.

No, it's such a good question.

I, like, don't know how to ask the questions as I really feel that because I'm just, like, in the swimmingness of it.

It's so great, though, because, like, I can sense it. Like, I know what your question is.

Yeah.

So for whatever that's worth.

Yeah. Yeah. But even before, as you were, like, I'm not sure if I answered your question, I was like, I don't even really question. It was just something.

I was like, there was something there for you to draw out. Yeah. Anyway.

Oh, bodies. Yeah. You know, I mean, this is probably a whole separate podcast because there's, like.

There's a part of me, I think, that, like, desires to transcend, like, identity markers.

You know, like, how we might describe our, like, social location based on, like, race, gender, ethnicity, sexuality, things like that, where it's like, yeah, those are part of us. And also, like, you know, this, like, very Piscean. Like, we're more than that. We're, like, all connected. Like, none of that matters.

And I, like, hold that intention with the fact that, like, we, like, we're not in that world yet. Like, we're where we can just, like, release all of that and, like, be in, like, unity and oneness with each other and not have those things matter.

Because, like, the reality of the world that we live in is that those things are, like, very much still at play in, like, our systems and institutions and our structures. And so there's no real way to kind of, like. Yeah.

I mean, it would be spiritual bypassing to be, like, none of those things matter, you know, because they do matter. And they're, like, playing out on, like. Yeah. This, like, material world that we live in.

And so, you know, for me, I had a very, like, big period in my 20s where I. Yeah, I don't. I don't think I even knew what my. I don't. I don't think I knew my body for most of my teens, early adulthood. I mean, I'm. I'm a queer, brown woman.

Person human, Sometimes woman, sometimes person human. And.

But I grew up in this, like, very, like, white evangelical conservative container that necessitates like, disembodiment in order to, like, function right? And so in order for. For me to, like, be able to make it out and make it through, it's like I had to dissolve a lot of myself.

You know, I, like, just had my, like, 28 high school reunion a couple of weeks ago, and I just was like, reflecting on how, like, all of us were white. Not like we. And most of us weren't white, but we were, like, white, right? Because there was like, there was no.

There's no conversation around, like, race at that time 20 years ago. And so, like, you could tell that there was, like, difference and, you know, there was, like, those kinds of people.

But, like, I didn't want to be like, those kinds of people. And so I just was like, okay, like, what do I need to do to, like, distance myself?

Oh, okay, well, that means you kind of take on this, like, white mentality. And so, you know, it's like my life kind of moved on and I was embedded in different institutions and different systems.

I was like, I kind of started seeing myself as a, like, non white person. Like, all of a sudden I was like.

I remember being in college and the first time I had this job working for the city of Seattle, and all of my colleagues were like, non white. And it was the first time I had been in a predominantly non white space. And all of the students we worked with were non white.

And I remember being like, oh, oh, I'm not white. Oh, God. Oh, that's right. Oh, wow, look at the color of my skin. You know, and that was kind of the.

This beginning of an awakening of, like, okay, so then who am I? And like, what are my stories and what is my relationship to land and, like, ancestor and, like, my actual physical body?

And that kind of, you know, put me on my, like, decolonizing journey of. Of beginning to kind of unlearn and undo a lot of narratives around, like, what was good and what was bad.

And I think part of the embodiment piece for me is because I'm an emotional authority is also, like, coming to understand and, like, feel and know my emotions. Like, my emotions is actually how my body knows what is correct for me. Like, my knowing can't Happen apart from being in that.

In that process and, like, allowing the sensations of my emotions to, like, be felt in my body.

Like, I had this amazing somatic therapist that I met when I was in my second round of grad school that, like, actually, like, had me feel my feelings in my body for the first time in my life. And it was so disorienting. It was, like, so terrible when I first started because I was like, what? Like, what?

Like, I'm like, I can feel sadness in that part of my body. Or like, oh, that's anger. Like that. That tightness in my leg is anger. Like, and it's not just my anger. It's like generational and ancestral anger.

Like, what? Yeah, and it was really scary at first is because it was. Because you're also like.

I was having to expand myself, but I was also having to expand myself for. Yeah, for, like, my ancestors. So it wasn't just, like. Wasn't just feeling me. I was, like, feeling. Feeling like the past.

Yeah.

And that extends beyond, like, my lived experience. I don't know, embodiment. It took a long time and. And then I was, like, still, like, actively in. Well, you know, this is a story for another day.

But I was gonna go be an Episcopal priest, and so I was okay.

Yeah.

So I was, like, still really in. Involved and invested in, like, that institution and, like, its own history and legacy. And I was having to, like.

Yeah, I was feeling the consequences of that history on my body in, like, a very aggressive way. Like, as I was ending my time in. In that system, like, my body was, like, flaring and it was like I was having rage attacks.

It was insomnia, like, panic attacks. Like, my body was, like, on. Like, it was like, ringing the warning bell of, like, you actually cannot continue here. Like, this is. And.

But I don't think if I had done, like, that beginning somatic work, like, I don't know if I would have even known. I think I would have just been like, something's wrong with me. I'm the problem.

Instead of, oh, no, actually, like, you are in the wrong environment and your body is trying to keep you safe and your body is telling you, like, eject.

So really since, like, that's been a five, six year period, and the last five, six years has been me just kind of settling into, like, a different relationship with my body or my body leads me. And it's led me in lots of ways where I thought it was my body and it was actually my mind, you know, because it's like, how do you suss that out.

Like, our mind stories are so, like, loud, and they do live in our bodies, you know? Like, it's not like. It's not like our mental stories are just, like, apart from our bodies. Like. Like. I don't know.

I think about, like, fascial release, right? Like, you're releasing mental stories as you are, like. Like, releasing the. The space in your muscles.

And so, yeah, I think that's like, another piece that I've been, like, having to work with is like, I. I do trust my body, and my body is, like, layered. It's, like, layered with my stories, and it's layered with other people's stories that are mental stories.

And so it's not always as clear as, like, just trust your body, you know, Just, like, listen to your body, your authority. Right, yeah, because, like, our authorities are always like, yeah, they're still in. In that relationship with. With the mind. And.

Yeah, like, really disruptive and oppressive stories that we've all, like, inherited and internalized. And so, again, not sure if that's answering your question, but, like, you know, we're going.

We're going in that direction now, so we're just gonna talk about colonialism.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah.

But I also think relevant to this, you know, to what we were saying about, like, performance and visibility and vulnerability. Right? Like. Like, you just.

I think you said at the beginning is like, I think that fear of being seen comes from the fact that, like, we are afraid of our own bodies. Like, we don't know how to inhabit our own bodies because colonialism took that from us.

And so it's sometimes, like, it feels very personal to be like, I have this, like, thing with, like, visibility or, like, vulnerability, you know, like, ugh. It's like, why can't I. Like, why can't I figure that out? And it's like, no, babe. Like, actually, this is, like, this is bigger than just you.

Right? Right.

Yeah. Like, we were actually, like, robbed of that knowing.

Right. Centuries and centuries, generationally. And we're.

And we're trying to come back to that now. And really, the way that we come back to that is not through this, like, intellectual exercise on my own in my.

Like, I mean, and I love hermiting, you know, I love being on my own.

It's like what I'm experiencing is, like, I come back to it by being with other bodies who are also in the process of figuring out this thing in their own bodies. Like, it's. Bodies with bodies is how we're going to undo These stories.

Beautiful. Beautiful.

Yeah. I don't know there's anything you do.

Yeah, yeah, there's.

Okay, you tell me. Like you synthesize it like you wrap it up for us. Noah.

Wait, is that, is that my work?

Okay, well, no, yeah, like this landed on your body, so. And, and I, I would love to just kind of hear how your body is, you know, responding to what your spidey senses are picking up.

Yeah. I think I'm.

I'm deeply appreciating your like your articulation of your specific journey to knowing your body, to becoming in touch with it, to the legacies of violence that have kept us away from our bodies and that like, that.

I don't say that responsibility, but that like the awakening to that and then saying, oh this is now my work in this life, you know, and the wideness of that and the wideness and the like the collapsing of time and the like this is actually work for my ancestors and my descendants, you know. And so it's not. It's about me, but it's not about me at the same time, you know. And so like holding that, I think for me the, the importance of. Yeah.

The importance of. Of of devotion to that. I mean I first woke up like my, my like I had like, I think like social awakening alongside my spiritual awakening.

So like, like it's interesting to be in. In spaces like. Yeah. Where like whiteness is very. And like whiteness and spirituality are just very kind of like merged. You know, and they.

And there's. And so, so it's interesting and then to also hold, you know, my particular positionality as well. Right. And so I'm, I am always I think curious about.

About you know, like what is my, you know, like thinking about.

I was having this conversation yesterday where I just try and get all the men and like male conditioned, male bodied folks in my life just to like read bell hooks. Because like bell hooks was. Was for me was, was like an entryway and particularly the will to change was like.

Was like the text that like helped me like help me understand the ways that patriarchy like impacted this body, you know, and, and that was like hard to talk about I think like eight years ago maybe. And maybe it's, It's.

Maybe it's so hard to talk about now because there's this, this part of me that is like not wanting to, you know, like understanding my, My. My particular positionality in inside. Right. The. The center of privilege and then being like, oh well, I'm not supposed to presence myself.

And so like, how can I presence myself in a way that is like talking about the way that this system is like, this is the soup that we're swimming in.

And the system has like, had its impact on me understanding that like, that is also my work in this life to come back into my body from white supremacist, capitalist patriarchy, colonialism, etc. That has done the disembodiment work.

And so I think for me, like, yeah, where you're like, I think what, what, what is like what my spidey senses are like where, where it's landing is like kind of like where you started is like, it's like this is the work that like, like the work of getting free doesn't happen in isolation, you know. And so like I need to. With all of my stories about like how much work I've done and how much, you know, so on and so forth.

Like I need to be a body in another body with other bodies and be like, what's happening in my body and that that's not a person, you know what I mean? And the second that I start to take that personally or there's shame and there's blame, like that doesn't do any.

It doesn't support getting free, you know, so I can notice that and I can say, okay, that's here, you know, but yeah, but like, yeah, so I think that that kind of like. And I, I would be, I would be interested to hear you say more if you feel like about even about the like the conversation of.

So I was curious about the like the caviar or the, the. What's the word?

Not the caveat but the like you using spiritual bypassing and being like, well, I'm not spiritual bypassing, but like, you know, and, and like what, what your relationship is with like our like very real social identity locations and the materiality of. And the violence with particular bodies and like non duality maybe that's whatever. I'll say that for another podcast.

Like, oh, this is gonna be a three hour podcast, folks.

You. Hey, you asked about what I was picking up. So you know.

Oh, I love it. I love it. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

You got some thoughts?

I know I do. And I'm also like, is this. Can I, can I synthesize it or is it another. Yeah, is it another podcast? I think it might be another podcast.

I think you and I are like riffing on something that's like, is feels like the next chapter of this conversation. But I, I do feel like that this conversation and like as you were talking. What was coming up for me was, like, what's my responsibility?

Then, you know, if, like, this is the world that we live in, and, you know, this is, like, you know, it's unfolding. How it's unfolding, like, what's my responsibility? Like, and sometimes that, you know, I'm not.

I don't have the channels that I think really make someone feel a sense of responsibility. So I struggle with, like, what is my responsibility? Um, and yet I've had this feeling of, like, this is our responsibility.

What you and I are doing in this moment of allowing other people to see our inner world in process is our responsibility. Like, that is actually part of how things shift and change. Because if. Yeah.

I don't know, like, if you're feeling lonely, if you feel like no one else in your world is, like, having these conversations, like, you know, all those things that we said is like, my hope is that Lab Partners is this place where, like, we feel less alone. In whatever little corner of our lives, of the world that we're in is like. Like, oh, God.

There's this, like, group of humans that's, like, they're messily, you know, figuring it out, like, trying to figure it out together. And they're, like, letting us see. You know, they're, like, letting me see what it means to. Yeah.

To, like, share and be witnessed in, like, in the strangeness and discomfort of that, but also, like, in the beauty and, like, possibility and, like, hopefulness of that. So I. I do. I think I want to. I think this is.

Feels like it's a little bit of an ending, and I do want to answer that question in another episode, but I feel like right now it's, like, our responsibility as individuals is to, like, be ourselves in relation with others so that, like, people that we don't know who feel alone, who feel despairing, who feel hopeless, or who just feel, like, confused or uncertain, like, King Glimpse and be like, oh, okay, there it is. I'm not alone. Like, the world is connected. It's so much bigger. Like, it's beautiful. Yeah. So that's all I've got for today.

I think that's such a perfect place to close, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just part of the delusion or part of the. Perhaps, like, the design of.

Of separation, you know, that this is an isolated experience, and I'm the only one having this experience, you know?

Yeah.

And so, yeah. I really appreciate you kind of, like, centering this conversation as, you know, as an offering.

Yeah.

That it may be of benefit.

I sure hope so. I sure hope that our like, YD swirling ways.

How. How. How do you feel like doing like a. Like a three second, like three minute, like meta in the moment, like, process of like, how that was for you?

Yeah. Let's do it. I loved it. I love talking to you. It feels really easy.

And sometimes when I talk to like really, like left arrow folks, I get very like, like, I can't find the words. Like, I get very like, like tongue tied. I think.

I think because there's like such a directness to them, like, they feel so clear that then I'm like, I also have to be that clear. And like, I. I'm not clear when I'm trying to be clear. Like, I am clear when I am like in flow.

Like, but honestly, I'm like, I don't know what the hell I said. No idea what came out of my mouth. But I also know that what came out of my mouth was like, true and like deep and like, it. It's like. But I.

But it can come out that way because I was in conversation with someone who also is kind of swirly and inflow that way.

And so I, I do trust the dynamic between like, you and I that even if there's no like, clear question that like, because that's also just like, it's fake. Like, that we need that we need clarity to like, to like, pull out clarity. Like, we don't.

Yeah.

You know, we just need to be in like, we just need to be in the right energy. Yeah. So that's what I'm feeling.

I feel good. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Well, speaking of, like, folks not, you know, feeling less alone, like even that I feel.

I feel really actually seen and validated in my own experience of. Of, like, of this story of like not being clear or this story of. And I have also felt, which is like, also maybe another side podcast thread.

But there I have been tracking, like, with rightness and leftness, like, where like, like there's. There's.

There's like a tension that sometimes, like, sometimes something will be asked of me so direct that I like am forcing an answer to try and match that. That like actually feels inauthentic and I like, I'm losing words.

Like I can't articulate and then get curious about, like, why can't I articulate this thing? And then I'm like, oh, because it's like, like it's. There's some non incorrectness that's happening.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I felt that I was like oh, cool. You experienced that, too. Amazing. I'm not alone. So great. Yeah. Yeah. I think really, like, I think something that I. That I.

You know, one of the things that I really appreciate about you and this, like, this has come forward before, but then it came forward when. For the intro, for this, where you were just like, hey, I'm having trouble saying, communicating something.

And I appreciated that so much because there's something about that actually contributing to the truth and the directness and me experiencing you in your directness of being, like, nothing authentically is coming through.

And so, like, ask a different question or, like, let's figure out another way, because I'm not gonna, like, try and pull something out that isn't meant to come out or that feels forced. And that. Actually, that, for me, like, really helps me, like, relax into. Into trust in this relationship.

Yeah.

You know, that, like, you're. That there's. I'm not, you know, that there's not going to be. I don't know. You're not gonna tell me some bullshit just to, like, say some. You know.

Yeah. Yeah.

And so that. Yeah, yeah. Right. I think. And that's such. That's such, like, that's love, you know, like, that's how I experience love as well.

And so it's really beautiful. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. I've really learned. I mean, and this probably isn't podcast material, but it. I've.

I've learned to just be like, can you ask that question in different way? Like, I can tell that. Like, I can tell.

Like, I could tell when something's a good question, but I can tell that, like, it got asked in a way that's like, maybe, like, it needs. It needs. Like, the question needs to be rotated. So, like, I. Yeah, I'm. I'll just be like. Like, say more or, like, ask it again or ask it differently.

Like, what is it? Like, Like, I can't quite get at. Like, there's something underneath.

There's usually, like, if I'm asking that, like, there's something underneath what you're asking. Like, you're asking something, but, like, there's actually something under here.

And, like, I need to make sure that I'm answering that and not the question that's up here. Yeah.

Beautiful. Yeah. So.

Yeah, just interesting. Like, having conversations with, like, very lefty folks, oftentimes I'll just, like, let them talk.

And for. Right. And for the. For the. For the folks listening, we're not talking politics. We're talking. We're talking variables.

Oh, yes. Yeah. Human design variables.

That's good, because I wouldn't have known that, like, you know, true. Like, six months ago. Yeah.

Yeah. That feels great. That feels. In some ways, that feels like this feels like the right conversation to, like, share. I don't know how you feel, but.

This conversation has felt. I don't want to say messier, because it hasn't felt messy, but it has felt more. Perhaps more like. Like, more fluid. It's felt more. It felt more wavy.

And.

Because I think that there was such richness in the last conversation and such richness in. But I think perhaps, like, maybe last time there was, like, a Easing. Easing in between us, and now we're just, like, chilling on our couch.

We're, like, rooted in the seat of our couch.

Yeah.

Chit chatting.

That's how. That's how I felt it. Yeah. Like, last week I was like, oh, I'm still getting to know Noah, so, like, how am I gonna ask you questions?

Or, like, how are we gonna, like, riff? Or, like, what's this energy like? And then today felt a little bit more like, okay, cool. Like, we're just buddies and we're just, like, chatting.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's good. It feels nice. It feels nice also, for. Between us. So.

Yeah. Thank you, Sam.