Faith is Diane Schroeder's word. In this episode we get to meet one of her friends who helped her find her way back to it when she hit a pothole on her journey to authenticity. Throughout the first season of The Fire Inside Her podcast you'll get a unique opportunity to meet some of the individuals who make up Diane's inner circle and have been an integral part of her leadership path, her finding space to be more authentic, and her venture towards launching this podcast.

From learning more about the connective power of breaking bread, the questions around what you can get out of therapy, examples of self care, the sharing of powerful insight moments about high achievers needing help too, and the power of female friendship and the struggles and gifts of good female leadership. There is much to gain in this episode as you get a chance to get to know Diane a little better and meet one of the bad ass women who embodies the leadership, community, and authenticity that The Fire Inside Her is all about.

Are you excited to get your copy of the Self Care Audio download that Diane mentioned?

You can get that HERE - Thefireinsideher.com/audio

Lisa Curtis, LCSW, CASAC, HWC is not, as she has said more and more publicly, not your traditional therapist. Trained as a social worker (Masters of Science Social Work, Columbia University) with a credential in alcohol and substance abuse counseling, in addition to training as a health and wellness coach, she brings some unique qualifications to her work. Lisa believes sitting with her clients, and being present with them, is not about finding ‘the answer’. Additional training in first responder trauma, sleep behavior medicine, forward-facing trauma treatment, and extensive knowledge of substance use disorders, lend themselves to a variety of skills to introduce to clients. Lisa is a frank speaking, ‘call it like she sees it’ kind of clinician who relates to her client’s no-nonsense, boots-on-the-ground view of life. That being said, she’s also passionate about making sure those she works with get the support and guidance they can benefit from. 
 


Lisa's Website

@lcurtiscoaching on Instagram

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Copyright 2024 Diane Schroeder

The Fire Inside Her; Self Care for Navigating Change website

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Taking a Leap of Faith

[00:00:17] Diane: Do you have a word? My word is faith. The definition of faith is complete trust or confidence in someone or something. This can be faith in goddess, God, the universe, Great Spirit. Just knowing that there is a bigger power than us. If I'm being honest, I never really leaned into faith, I guess you could say I was phoning it in. One day while on my bumpy authenticity journey, I got stuck in a pothole.

[00:01:16] Diane: And some moments in my life where I paused and said, I'm not sure how I survived that experience. I told her I'd finished the exercise and she said that those moments and experiences were examples of faith. Not being able to explain; why people survived, why I survived my experiences. This exercise was life changing.

[00:02:17] Diane: Reminds me of a quote from a book that I read several years ago by Kip Tindell, the founder of The Container Store. He said that when you fully commit to something, the universe conspires to help you. When I look back at pivotal moments in my life, trusting in myself and having faith serve me well. This doesn't mean that I always get it right.

[00:03:05] Diane: I couldn't think of a better guest to have on my first episode than the friend who taught me how to lean into my faith. She is a friend, mentor, and part of my community.

[00:03:40] Diane: she brings some unique qualifications to her work. After unexpectedly being assigned to work with first responders and frontline workers, she has found herself enjoying the work for over 28 years. Lisa has worked with those who have sought out support, those for whom support wasn't their idea, and everyone in between.

[00:04:26] Diane: Lisa is a frank speaking, call it like she sees it kind of clinician who relates to her clients, no nonsense, boots on the ground view of life. That being said, she's also passionate about making sure those she works with get the support and guidance they can benefit from. Lisa has worked with a number of spouses and partners of first responders and frontline workers, helping them process their concerns, stress and fears for those they love.

[00:05:13] Diane: Welcome Lisa. Let's just get started because I wanna know the last book that you have listened to and or read.

[00:05:24] Diane: I'm just jumping in. We're going in the deep end.

[00:05:36] Diane: let's do what you're currently reading.

[00:05:45] Lisa: I am reading The Slight Edge. Don't ask me who that author is, but it's excellent. I am listening to Trevor Noah's book, Born a Crime, which is stunning.

[00:06:00] Lisa: It is so good. And then I am also reading the book, The Confidence Code.

[00:06:07] Lisa: This is about my max.

[00:06:13] Lisa: There's a lot of diversity.

[00:06:19] Lisa: Really four and a half?

[00:06:28] Lisa: That's right. Okay.

[00:06:49] Lisa: Okay, so let's start with the easy part of that, which is, how did I get there? I got there the same way. I bet a lot of people find you online. They were just sort of scrolling around. They see something, they got interested. It tweaked a curiosity in me. So it was this entrepreneur who was working remotely and who was setting up this idea that, Hey, I can teach you how to do some of the things that I do and would love to have you join.

[00:07:53] Lisa: But when I heard that she was in the fire service, I, I was just like walking on sunshine. I was like, yes, I think she's gonna be my person. And then you showed up and I'm like, she's my person, which was great. I think that that part has been really special and amazing. I love the energy between us. I love how much I've learned from you.

[00:08:37] Diane: I agree. I remember when I was invited to join the community, I was like, sweet. I got the referral from a friend that I had known for years, and it was kind of the same thing. I've never done anything like that before. And I'm like a community of women across the world. Okay, sure, I'll try it. And it was, it was intimidating for me.

[00:09:11] Diane: And, the takeaways I got from that just as much as what I want to do and learn from

[00:09:17] Diane: And the connections I've made with the core group. You, and when I found out, what you do as a therapist. And at the time you were working a lot with first responders. I was like, oh man, I love it when the universe, you know, brings people together like they're supposed to.

[00:09:47] Diane: You know, kind of imploded. The core group of us started our own group to kind of recover from the primary group. So what I learned a lot was what healthy community should look like and that, you know, we can do that better.

[00:10:23] Diane: Yeah. I don't really like drama so much at all. So, yeah that's how we connected. And, you know, the, the group is long gone. The core group of us, a few of us have stayed in touch and it's been special. I just am so grateful for your friendship and leadership and mentorship over the last several years because I've had some pretty big life changes and you have always been there just in the nick of time.

[00:11:20] Diane: And maybe it's time we look at getting new tools in your toolbox. And that moment, I remember I was driving on I 25 at Bellevue Avenue. I know exactly where I was and that moment just really changed my life. And I think, For all of us who are high achievers and who are always trying to be perfectionists and striving, striving, striving.

[00:12:04] Diane: It's a friendship. And yet you still weave that in like a good friend . And I think we need people like me as high achieving women need to hear that from you. Like, how does that work? More about your specialty.

[00:12:46] Lisa: And I think that that's where one of the places where especially women and especially women who see themselves as being high achievers, have a hard time stepping back and saying, okay, I, I see what's ahead, but I'm going to invite in a little bit of extra help. We're so programmed to think that the only people who get the extra help or the extra support are people who are sick or weak, or who had awful, terrible childhoods or something dramatic, and we forget that we're allowed to get that support from a variety of sources, whether that be a therapist or a friend, or the random stranger who says the most perfect thing at the most perfect time.

[00:13:48] Lisa: But what I can say, and what I can do is connect up dots that maybe are difficult to see from where you are sitting. And one of the reasons why I like working specifically with, with first responders, but also with high achievers in general, including frontline workers, is that you are very used to getting in doing the job and making it all, I won't say better, but addressing what's at hand and not taking a lot of crap along the way. Ya know, Hey, so sorry that that was a really prized ornamental bush. But if this fire hose needs to go over it to get to the fire to put your house out, that's what we're gonna do. Sorry about that.

[00:14:33] Lisa: You know, or if the windows need to be broken or whatever.

[00:14:58] Diane: I've had my therapist now for two and a half years, and he has literally helped me move rocks that were buried so deep I didn't even know they were there. And it's layers, it's it's layers.

[00:15:23] Lisa: Ah, that's an amazing question. It's self-care because the reality of it is that none of us can go through this, this thing alone. And one of the advantages of specifically hiring or getting somebody on your side that's trained as a therapist is that they are there to be not only your advocate and to help you uncover the dirt around those rocks and then move them, but they're there to do it in a nonjudgmental way.

[00:16:28] Lisa: Sometimes those sessions that are mostly silent are also the most productive. Again without that, how are we supposed to take care of ourselves if we don't feel like somebody's got our back? So I hope that answers your question.

[00:17:07] Diane: It's up to me. To run with it and to make those changes. And you just hold that container of safety and like encouragement because, you know, the people closest to us may not understand and it's a saying I hear all the time. You can't be a prophet in your own land. You know, you can't, while partners and spouses, you can have the best partner in the world, the best spouse, the best friends in the world.

[00:17:55] Diane: And you're fine. It's fine. I don't have time to put myself first, and I do put myself first if I do X, Y, and Z. But if you really don't get to the core, do you think you can outrun it? Do you think that you can outrun it? And that, does everyone need a couple sessions every once in a while to kind of tune in and do a checkup.

[00:18:36] Lisa: And it's also, let's be honest, our best decision making often got us to the place that we are now. So yes, that's great. But our best decision making also sometimes gets us into jams that we don't know how to back ourselves out of.

[00:18:52] Lisa: So again, even if it's that's somebody who has enough boundaries to say, Hey, listen, I hear where you're coming from, but what you just did this past Thanksgiving, you know, that was really inappropriate to throw the Turkey across the room.

[00:19:18] Diane: Yes ma'am.

[00:19:22] Diane: Right? Well, and it's that, that illusion, right? And I think, a part of being authentic and that authenticity that, you know, I strive and I wanna encourage everyone to find their authentic path, is really just what we talked about. That, you know, life is messy there it is. Like that is the most beautiful lives are still the messiest lives.

[00:20:11] Diane: And if you could speak to that, I think from your vantage point and perspective as a therapist, kind of what your experience with that has been and how that affects or impacts being your true, authentic self.

[00:20:47] Lisa: At this point, God forbid it's a station wagon. Um, and maybe you have a little job on the side. And maybe you're really good at it because you know you're really good at everything you do that you set your mind to, but we're not really taught or expected to maintain a variety of different roles outside of that.

[00:21:36] Lisa: And that may not work for us. One of the beauties of getting older, I think, is that we get to change our mind. Grownups get to change their minds. And that's another factor of self-care that I think we don't get told enough that it's okay to change your mind. It's really okay to say, last week I did like that and last week I was okay with that, but this week I'm not.

[00:22:07] Diane: Well, and I love that answer because I feel, especially just from my perspective on my own journey, the more I have. Dug deep and kind of excavated that authenticity. And for me, it's really bringing out more of a feminine side of me and balancing the super hyper masculine world that I've been raised in and worked in and know that.

[00:22:50] Diane: And then I had the child, you know, kind of mid-career and he's, you know, changed my life and then kind of things got messy again. And it wasn't until I really stopped outrunning and really digging deep and finding that, you know what, I like that more feminine energy and, I've actually got a lot of it and you know how I can apply that; the way that I lead, the way that I, make my choices in my life moving forward. And it's changed my life. I mean, without a doubt finding that, but it's scary. It is so scary.

[00:23:34] Diane: Mm-hmm. . Oh yeah.

[00:23:54] Lisa: It's not okay for us to have a decision and to make it and to be feeling really good about it while still being feminine or as authentic as we are. It is, whether that be somebody who wears a flowery skirt or a flannel shirt doesn't matter. What matters is, you know, what are my motives here? What am I bringing to the table here?

[00:24:25] Diane: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:30] Diane: Well, and it's the double bind.

[00:24:32] Diane: You know, if I soften, then I'm weak and I've, you know, again, that's, that's part of the journey, that's part of the mess. Okay, softening and being vulnerable is almost as terrifying as anything I can imagine, because there's this, you know, armor that I carry, you know, to, work and I've gotta be tough and I've gotta be intense. And then it's like, that's exhausting.

[00:25:18] Diane: And if you do the work. And you can have someone guide you along the way that will hold that safe space for you. it's messy and it's bumpy and it can be scary and all the emotions. Yet I know that it's also the rewards, the benefits, the connections, the, you know, relationships are just so incredible.

[00:26:39] Diane: is the juice worth a squeeze?

[00:26:47] Diane: I mean, you know, you can take the girl outta the firehouse, but you can't take the firehouse out of the girl Okay. So I know we're getting ready to wrap up and I just, the, one of the things that I love that you do with your therapy practice is, You focus on community, and if you could just share with everyone, how it started, pre pandemic and how it's going now with one of the coolest things you do for community and how you use food to connect people.

[00:27:38] Lisa: Um, but in that group of people I had a heavy majority of my folks at the time were people who were trying to obtain and maintain abstinence from substance use. And they were having a hard time, or a group of them were having a hard time. Coincidentally, so sort of you, you guys can't see me on the tape, but I'm sort of pouring from one hand to the other. I also have noticed and have always noticed that when I feed my clients, physically feed them food that they opened up and were much more receptive in the office. Even if I offered a cookie and they didn't take it. And no, I'm not offering up Chips Ahoy, nothing against Chips Ahoy but I was always offering up real food that I made.

[00:28:24] Diane: It's amazing. By the way, Lisa's baking is food for the Soul, literally.

[00:28:51] Lisa: We sat down at a real table that they had set, and we had basically a group.. But it was around this meal and it was around that dinner table that some of the most enduring connections have been made. That group continues despite the pandemic, despite the incredibly sad loss of two of our members, in the early stages of the pandemic we were meeting outside.

[00:29:43] Lisa: Um, and it, you know, hopefully we'll get back to a time when I can do it again. Right now, it's not that time. The church has decided it requires $300 a night to be there, but you know, when I win the lottery, I'll be able to have my own church or my own space and my own place and make that all happen. It was literally food for the soul And that, that group continues.

[00:30:08] Diane: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:14] Diane: I just, I, to me that just is such a great example of community, and I always say in this, again, comes back to the firehouse when we can sit and break bread together and share a meal together, you can learn so much about a person and you can create that psychologically safe space for true connection. You know sharing the mess and that you're all in the foxhole together eating food and you find that maybe you would never imagined having a connection with someone, but you can sit down and have a meal with them and you realize that you do, and that bond is just formed.

[00:30:57] Lisa: Yeah, and I think that that's one of the most amazing things to them as a group. Was that especially one particular member I can recall, the very first night that we sat down, he was looking across the table at this kid, this young guy heavily tattooed skinny as a rail first responder, and he was like, Dude, I got nothing in common with you.

[00:31:42] Lisa: And then, you know, we're good to go after that.

[00:32:04] Diane: I mean, I can hold awkward for a pretty long time, but eventually we're gonna have a conversation.

[00:32:30] Lisa: And yet here we are sitting down to dinner that they've unloaded from my car or the component parts they're eating off of, or with serving platters from my kitchen. So, you know, they would say, where did this come from? Well, that was my grandmother's salad bowl, you know. It, it allows for that exchange that you can't get any other way.

[00:32:52] Lisa: You, you just, you can't, those, you're right, you can hold awkward for a while, but after a bit you're gonna have to have a conversation.

[00:33:20] Diane: Um, but because you're a strong leader, because you're good at your job, because you care all the things that make you authentic, you're able to infuse that energy into your groups as well into the people that you work with and your friendships.

[00:34:02] Lisa: Or that I took the chance to join that group that eventually led to you. You know, my life is so much richer because you are part of it, and that, that to me, is so special.

[00:34:25] Lisa: I think in the beginning we look to it, we look to the outside for it. But I think at some point we need to begin to shift that to ourselves and we need to give ourselves, it's always an inside job. Always an inside job.

[00:34:59] Diane: I'm like, absolutely. I need that every four to six weeks. But that's me. Not everyone needs that. It might just be, you know, in the short term or it might be, a check-in. There's no prescription, so to speak for everyone. It's not the same.

[00:35:33] Lisa: And I'm thinking to myself 10 years ago, what did I have for breakfast yesterday?

[00:35:41] Lisa: But if, if I have done my job well,

[00:35:45] Lisa: if any therapist has done their job well, you can hear their voice in your head even when they are not with you.

[00:35:54] Lisa: And that is part of what makes that transition to an inside job so much more possible and plausible that, okay, I've got this voice in me. I, I know that I'm gonna get support here.

[00:36:19] Lisa: Ah, okay. So, we'll, I'll give you the short version. The short version is that I meditate daily. I exercise as often as I can. And for the record, just in case anyone like goes onto my website and actually sees a picture of me, I, that does not mean that I look like something that should be in a beauty pageant in terms of like physique, because that's not what it means.

[00:37:14] Diane: and Birds.

[00:37:33] Diane: but I love it and I downloaded the app and we still use it like if we see, so I'm like, wait a minute, we have an app for that , and we look it up to see what type of bird it is.

[00:37:55] Diane: Yes, it's, it's beautiful. Okay, well now if you could just let us know where we can find you? Where are you available?

[00:38:30] Lisa: Can't imagine why I would pick that as a topic. But that's where you can find me. And I, and you know, I, I know that some people think, oh, I don't wanna reach out because whatever, whatever crazy things are sort of stuck in your head, please know that I welcome any conversation, even if that means that I'm going to help you find what works for you.

[00:39:00] Diane: Well, and you're very good at it. So I know that's part bias, but I also don't waste my time around or hanging out with people who aren't genuine and helpful and, you know, cuz we ain't got time for that.

[00:39:16] Diane: I appreciate it. And I will put everything to contact you in the show notes.

[00:39:22] Diane: Friend. Thank you for taking the time to listen to this episode. I know how valuable time is and I'm very grateful you have chosen to spend your time with me. Be sure to follow the show on whatever platform you're currently listening to and head on over to TheFireInsideHer.com/audio where I've created a free audio to help you kickstart your self-care routine.