Jazzy titled the show, "whatever," because whenever he tries to involve his two boys in his projects, they reply, "whatever dad."

The conversation, as it usually does, meanders.

It begins with a question of doing, and Jimmy suggests that actions can be better understood through the lens of "Want v. Need."

Jazzy and Phreddie respond to Jimmy's categories by pondering the relationship of judging, guilt, and achieving. "We're in a stream," exclaims, Jimmy. He doesn't understand static.

The conversation flows into the idea of self-direction. Jazzy self-schedules, while Phreddie confesses that he is an "Information addict." This nudges the conversation toward a question: Who is the self in "self direction"? Hard information -- Newspapers, radio, TV, internet -- directs us more than we direct ourselves.

Jazzy, when he was younger found refuge in libraries. Jimmy allows the garden to direct him -- What needs help the most? Jimmy reads and anticipates the garden's needs. He loves peasant work. Phreddie agrees and describes his efforts as "slogging through the self."

To make actions, we need to be interested. Being "interested" in key.