This episode is a conversation with podcaster, coach, and author Larry Hagner. Over the past 10 years, Larry has spoken with hundreds of experts and worked with thousands of men through his podcast and programs at The Dad Edge. Now, he has distilled the essence of what makes legendary fathers different in his new book, The Pursuit of Legendary Fatherhood.

We talk about how most men have a deep desire to show up intentionally in their lives but often find themselves subtly checking out as they realize that their expectations aren’t being met; a process that he calls ‘The Drift’. Larry talks about the symptoms of the drift, how men can navigate this experience and ultimately learn the skills needed to find their way out.

Our conversation also covers the 3 things that women need from us and how we can build better relationships with them; why being better men is all about skills that any man can learn; how to practice those skills and envision a better life; and why an uncrusted peanut butter sandwich in the bathroom makes a great snack.

Find Larry Hagner Here:

Website: thedadedge.com

Instagram: Instagram.com/thedadedge

Larry's Book: 'The Pursuit of Legendary Fatherhood: Break Old Patterns & Create an Epic Legacy as a Father & Husband: thedadedge.com/legendary-fatherhood-book/

Find The Akkeri Here:

Website: TheAkkeri.com

Facebook: Facebook.com/theakkeri

Instagram: Instagram.com/the.akkeri

YouTube: YouTube.com/theakkeri

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;06;00

Larry Hagner

Your life is fleeting and you have one shot at this whole thing called your.

00;00;06;00 - 00;00;06;13

Matt Howlett

Life.

00;00;06;13 - 00;00;23;03

Larry Hagner

Your marriage and your kid, and you don't want to leave it on the table. You won't leave none of it on the table. What a woman really needs is forcing her to say if and when you're listening to her, when you're validating her, when you're empathetic like that, versus trying to solve all the problems, that's going to create a better connection with you.

00;00;23;05 - 00;00;34;14

Larry Hagner

Her physical health is the resume and the operating system of the mind. So I'm not saying you have to have a six pack to be a great dad, but if you have completely let yourself go, that's going to impact your emotional mental health as well.

00;00;34;16 - 00;00;58;23

Matt Howlett

You are listening to The Akkeri Podcast, the show about men and masculinities, the challenges that modern men face and how to chart a better way forward. I'm your host, Matt Howlett, mental health coach and founder of The Akkeri. This episode is a conversation with podcaster, coach, and author Larry Hagner. Over the past ten years, Larry has spoken with hundreds of experts and worked with thousands of men through his podcast and programs at the D&D edge.

00;00;58;25 - 00;01;17;06

Matt Howlett

Now, he has distilled the essence of what makes legendary fathers different in his new book, The Pursuit of Legendary Fatherhood. We talk about how most men have a deep desire to show up intentionally in their lives, but often find themselves subtly checking out as they realize that their expectations aren't being met. A process that he calls the Drift.

00;01;17;08 - 00;01;37;12

Matt Howlett

Larry talks about the symptoms of the drift, how men can navigate this experience and ultimately learn the skills needed to find their way out. Our conversation covers the three things that women need from us and how we can build better relationships with them. Why being Better Men is all about skills that any man can learn. How to practice those skills and envision a better life.

00;01;37;14 - 00;01;50;24

Matt Howlett

And why an uncosted peanut butter sandwich in the bathroom makes a great snack. Here's the conversation with Larry Heck. You told me you're in Saint Louis. Is that where you grew up? Pretty much. I mean, I.

00;01;50;24 - 00;01;59;09

Larry Hagner

Was born in California, but I don't remember any of it. I was so young. And then we moved out here when I was really young, so. Yeah, mostly just moved at most. I grew up out here.

00;01;59;14 - 00;02;01;23

Matt Howlett

Okay, cool. And you've got a couple kids, right?

00;02;01;26 - 00;02;03;15

Larry Hagner

I have four, yeah. Four boys.

00;02;03;17 - 00;02;11;25

Matt Howlett

Four boys. Okay. Yeah. What is the weirdest, funniest thing that's either of them has done lately that sticks out to you?

00;02;11;28 - 00;02;23;01

Larry Hagner

I found a half eaten peanut butter and jelly sandwich in our. In our bathroom. And that one you just like. I don't even know how it got here. Like, I don't know if someone was eating it while I go in the bathroom. I don't know if they came in to wash their hands and put it down, but.

00;02;23;09 - 00;02;30;08

Larry Hagner

Yeah. Yeah. Half eaten uncrustables sitting on the sink of my bathroom when I went in there. Wash my hands one day and I'm like, all right.

00;02;30;11 - 00;02;31;25

Matt Howlett

They're nothing. Nothing growing on it.

00;02;31;25 - 00;02;33;27

Larry Hagner

Just no grease anyway.

00;02;33;29 - 00;02;36;16

Matt Howlett

No, you left it there just to.

00;02;36;19 - 00;02;40;17

Larry Hagner

See the rest of it. So, I mean, I wasn't gonna let it go to waste.

00;02;40;19 - 00;02;43;04

Matt Howlett

Of course. Did you play sports?

00;02;43;06 - 00;02;55;01

Larry Hagner

I wrestled growing up, and then I did, I did years of martial arts. I played baseball growing up. But, yeah, mostly, I would say wrestling martial arts was my. I love those two things.

00;02;55;03 - 00;03;01;05

Matt Howlett

Why do you love it? I also played baseball. I got my reasons for loving that. Why? I'm. Why wrestling?

00;03;01;08 - 00;03;25;25

Larry Hagner

I just, you know, I loved, you know, I, I grew up kind of kind of, I mean, maybe goes in with my story. I grew up bullied a lot, and, there was no guy around to really show me, like, how to fight or how to defend myself. And so, you know, I thought, like, well, I didn't even start doing any of that stuff till high school, and then I didn't even start doing martial arts until my adult life.

00;03;25;27 - 00;03;37;19

Larry Hagner

Okay. But like I always I never wanted to have that feeling again. I was like, if someone was trying to hurt me, like, not know what to do, and that those two sports, like, really changed it for me.

00;03;37;21 - 00;04;01;25

Matt Howlett

Yeah. I, I think, I wish that I had gotten into that when I was younger. I wasn't bullied a lot, but I do remember that feeling. Yeah. Yeah, definitely not wanting it to happen again. I was a little smaller when I was a kid, a little bit more, I would say introverted and somewhat insecure and, well, before I get into the stories too much, because I think we have some similarities in our, in our story.

00;04;01;28 - 00;04;19;23

Matt Howlett

Because I did read a portion of your book. Thank you for sending that copy along the Pursuit of legendary fatherhood, break old patterns and create an epic legacy as a father and husband. If it's okay with you, I'd love to jump in and just read a portion of of of that book of the section on the drift, if that's alright with you.

00;04;19;28 - 00;04;21;01

Larry Hagner

Absolutely. That'd be great.

00;04;21;04 - 00;04;44;00

Matt Howlett

Cool. So most men have a deep desire to show up big and intentionally in their lives, only to go to their grave regretting they didn't give it everything they had. We get wrapped up in work, surface level friendships, feeling trapped in a job we hate, feeling helpless that we don't know how to create the connection with our wives that we truly want, and not making time to make connections in the memories with our kids we truly want.

00;04;44;02 - 00;05;05;22

Matt Howlett

So we subtly check out. It's usually or it usually doesn't happen in a drastic way. It slides in under the radar. We wake up and realize that we are living a life that we really, never really set out to live is that an appropriate, like segment of that? To summarize what you mean by the drift.

00;05;05;24 - 00;05;37;25

Larry Hagner

I think, yeah, I obviously that that is the drift. You know, I think that I've been studying this for a long time and obviously have felt this, I have felt this before doing this work. I felt that I have I have felt it in times of doing this work. And, how it usually shows up for men is exactly the way you described it, where I think, men really dream big about the, the that they want to create, the family that they want to lead, the connection with their kids, whether you're raising a son or daughter, the work, you know, that maybe makes you come alive.

00;05;37;25 - 00;05;56;27

Larry Hagner

You want to do the things that make you feel alive. Yeah. And, you know, 82% of men go to a job that they despise in some way, shape or form. And, you know, only leaves 18% of men doing work that they love. And a lot of men, after being married for five, ten, 15 years, doing a job that they, you know, really aren't excited about.

00;05;56;27 - 00;06;21;14

Larry Hagner

And plus they we find out, I think early on that we really don't have the skills to connect with our kids to create these incredible marriages. And by the way, I say, the skills are the things that are missing, not the desire in fact, I gotta I really have to hand it to men of this generation, the men of this generation, like they they're I think we're seeing a higher desire for men to step up.

00;06;21;14 - 00;06;38;24

Larry Hagner

I mean, you see more dads, a little league games, you see more, more dads at dance recitals, you see more dads on the playground with their kids, and you see more dads doing things with kids. But the gap really is, is like, well, I think I know what good looks like. I just don't know how to get over there.

00;06;38;24 - 00;06;58;24

Larry Hagner

And that is the biggest gap that I see. So the the lack of the skills allowed, you know, sits a man into, I think, what is stagnation and sits a man into like, well, I'm not exactly sure what this looks like. Could I learn it. And most men are like, well, no, this is fatherhood. This is marriage. There's no such thing.

00;06;58;24 - 00;07;16;02

Larry Hagner

I need to wing it. So we begin to drift, you know, we begin to be like, well, I guess this is just life. Everyone tells me that, you know, the slow burn out of marriage is there. You know, you can't possibly be in love with the woman you married 15 years ago. That's impossible. And you know, you can't possibly.

00;07;16;02 - 00;07;33;11

Larry Hagner

Like, once they're teenagers, they don't want anything to do with you anyway. And I challenge all of these beliefs that society tells us that that we have. And that's that's the challenge of the drift. It's the to challenge the status quo, to positively disrupt, you know, that that vision and that perspective of what fatherhood and family is.

00;07;33;13 - 00;07;53;04

Matt Howlett

Right? So you've got men that have, at least most of you would say, genuinely have a vision for what they want their life to be. At least they did when they were younger. Maybe they'll let it go at some point, but they're thinking that they're not hitting their goals and they're not reaching that that vision, they're not actualizing that, and they're not realizing that it's just a lack of skills.

00;07;53;11 - 00;07;54;14

Matt Howlett

Is that correct?

00;07;54;16 - 00;08;04;22

Larry Hagner

That's right. I mean, if you really think about it, you grew up playing baseball. You know, I grew up, you know, wrestling and martial arts. And I think, you know, if to really put it in baseball, like what what position did you play?

00;08;04;24 - 00;08;07;18

Matt Howlett

I pitched a bit. I played a few.

00;08;07;20 - 00;08;28;04

Larry Hagner

Okay. So what's interesting about being a pitcher is I was kind of hoping you'd say that. I'll never forget I was in fourth grade, and, I will never forget my. My little league baseball coach put me in as a pitcher because I was just dying to do it. And, I thought to myself, I was like, well, you know, I see this on TV.

00;08;28;04 - 00;08;42;24

Larry Hagner

I see people pitch all the time. I see the wind up, I see the technique like, I'm sure I can do it right. And it was the longest, most horrific inning. And in Little League baseball, I think I've ever had, I was just dying for this coach to come get me off the mound because I was so bad at it.

00;08;42;26 - 00;09;04;01

Larry Hagner

But no one ever taught me how to pitch a ball. They taught me how to throw a ball, but they didn't teach me how to pitch, which is totally different. And, you know, it's the same thing with like, martial arts, like the big thing, like when I go and I have, you know, discovery calls with maybe my one on one clients or people want to join, like our group type of scenarios that we have our A group programs.

00;09;04;04 - 00;09;19;04

Larry Hagner

And a lot of guys, you know, love jujitsu these days. You know, they're either their kids are in or they're in it. And I just simply ask them, especially the jujitsu guys. I'm like, well, I was like, you know, have you done a tournament? And they're like, well, yeah, I've done tournaments. I was like, well, how long do did you train before a tournament?

00;09;19;04 - 00;09;35;04

Larry Hagner

I've heard everything from six months to two years, you know, before the tournament I was like, okay, well, let me ask you this. Would you have ever have done a jiu jitsu tournament without ever even taking one class? And they look at me like I have two heads are like, oh my gosh, no, I there's no way. I was like, well, why?

00;09;35;06 - 00;09;49;08

Larry Hagner

And they're like, because I'd get killed. Well, why is that? Well, I don't have the skills to defend myself. So I'm just literally the most vulnerable thing out there. And I tell them I was like, do you have the marriage that you want? And they're like, well, no, that's why I'm here. Well, do you have the connection with your kids that I want to like?

00;09;49;08 - 00;10;11;07

Larry Hagner

No, that's why I'm here. I was like, well, you just did a jiu jitsu tournament without any training. And then you see them kind of put the pieces together of like, oh my gosh, I, I truly have I've never really learned anything about marriage except for maybe what I read or pick up here and there, but I've never actually been in a community where I am taught this is how I connect with my wife.

00;10;11;07 - 00;10;32;02

Larry Hagner

This is how I build intimacy with my wife. Yeah, this is how I actually, create attraction. And I don't chase, you know, when it comes to my marriage. Like, it's no one ever sits down and teaches these thing, these things. But, man, they are there and we can do them. And you can actually go get some reps and go, go roll with us.

00;10;32;02 - 00;10;47;03

Larry Hagner

You know, in the in the marriage jiu jitsu studio, go roll with us in the parenting, you know, jiu jitsu studio. And I can tell you right now that when you learn these things, fatherhood and marriage becomes way more fulfilling because you know what to do, how to do it, when to do it.

00;10;47;06 - 00;11;11;22

Matt Howlett

Right, and you're walking into situations that would normally maybe be overwhelming. Although a lot of men wouldn't want to admit that you just you feel the emotion of it. You feel like you may be failed in the moment, but you don't realize that you could actually prepare yourself for it by learning. I feel like, as you're saying, that I'm thinking that masculinity, manhood, the different roles that you outlined in your book were not taught that you can learn them.

00;11;11;24 - 00;11;31;28

Matt Howlett

You know what I mean? Where there's not it's not framed as something that you should learn or can learn. It's framed for men as something that you just pick up. You just automatically have, you know what I mean? At least for me. In my experience, my father never taught me how to be a man. Not really. I learned by watching him, by listening to him, picked up some of his bad traits, some of his good traits.

00;11;32;01 - 00;11;48;00

Matt Howlett

But it's never taught in any way, not just from your parents, but even in, you know, in middle school, you're never taught that. You can just, you know, take a course or that you should have a mentor. I wasn't I don't know if that's different. In your experience. It seems like it wasn't.

00;11;48;03 - 00;12;05;25

Larry Hagner

No. And I don't think that's I mean, I think that's pretty much the same for everybody's experience to some degree. You know, my boys, what I've done, especially my older ones, I have a 19 year old and a 17 year old, and we talk about this stuff all the time. You know, we talk about, you know, because they have girlfriends and that kind of thing.

00;12;05;25 - 00;12;25;01

Larry Hagner

And, you know, we've had conversations around like, hey, when your girlfriend comes, talk comes in, talks to you about her problems. She's actually after one thing. She's actually after connection. And as much as you want to solve our problems and fix everything and be that guy, that's actually not being that guy because what it what a woman really needs is to feel seen, heard and safe.

00;12;25;01 - 00;12;43;21

Larry Hagner

And when you're listening to her, when you're validating her, when you're empathetic like that, versus trying to solve all of her problems, then, you know, that's going to create a better connection with you. And then the other thing I tell them, too, is I was like, you know, think about it. If you give a woman advice like every other guy wants to do, you're basically sending a couple messages.

00;12;43;21 - 00;13;00;07

Larry Hagner

One is, I'm not really listening to you because all I'm doing is thinking about how to solve this for you, right? Number two. And this one's really condescending and and a lot of guys don't. This one doesn't hit our radar is when when we're advising on what they should do, we're actually sending a message of, oh, you poor thing.

00;13;00;07 - 00;13;18;09

Larry Hagner

I don't trust you enough for you to go solve this on your own. So let me help you solve it. It's almost like putting us in the, like like she's a she's a woman. Like she's a like she's a child. Yeah, right. And we're like, an authority figure or a dad and no one. That's not an intimate relationship.

00;13;18;09 - 00;13;20;10

Larry Hagner

That's not the dynamics that we want.

00;13;20;12 - 00;13;41;08

Matt Howlett

Yeah, and that's a hard spot for a man to be in because given. Yeah. Given what we just talked about, that you're not prepared for that in any way. You think you're supposed to have what it takes. So in that moment you assume that that's the right thing to do. I mean, I just did that just by reaction yesterday in a conversation with, with my wife and I, I think I caught myself and she confirmed later that I did catch myself.

00;13;41;08 - 00;13;59;18

Matt Howlett

And now I turn that around was, you know, what really meant something to her, the way that I acted afterwards. But in the moment, I just want to fix it. And I think that's a desire that I don't know if I ever really goes away. I'd like to think that it would. It's I feel it or sense it less now than I did maybe ten years ago.

00;13;59;20 - 00;14;15;00

Matt Howlett

But it comes naturally to us. We want to jump in. We want to fix things. We want to do something with our hands. You know, we want to get our hands on the problem and just solve it. But in that relationship, like you're you've got it, right? I mean, that's a great analogy, I think is looking at the way that, you did with the picture made.

00;14;15;00 - 00;14;35;21

Matt Howlett

These are skills that we can learn, that we can apply in these situations. You gave us a story in your book about, it was your stepfather, correct? When you said that he, you know, the moment when he lost the light in his eyes, would you say that that was the beginning of the drift for him.

00;14;35;24 - 00;14;53;04

Larry Hagner

You know, it's funny you mention that because I do. I did. My mom and him got married when I was about five, and I remember it was kind of funny. I had no idea that I have a biological father, and I didn't even know that until I was, you know, about ten. And I started asking questions because I knew I finally figured out what the birds and the bees were.

00;14;53;04 - 00;15;12;03

Larry Hagner

So I was like, wait a second, like, how in the world? Because this, this guy that my mom married when I was five, he adopted me. My last name, Hagner, is actually his name. And I actually thought that's how dads actually appear is moms find them and then they come into our family. So it's like literally the stork appears, you know, like, that's how we're born.

00;15;12;03 - 00;15;35;03

Larry Hagner

And then dads come out, come along. When moms fine. You know, I guess a good suitor or a good dad or a good husband for the family. And, I'll never forget it. Actually, being in second grade. And I remember talking in front of my class about how I was at my mom and dad's wedding. And at that point in time, I mean, I'm 50 years old, so, you know, divorces weren't as common back then when I was a little guy.

00;15;35;03 - 00;15;51;03

Larry Hagner

I mean, they got more and more common when you're like in middle school, in high school. But, when I was in, like, second grade, I'll never forget my second grade teacher, like, literally stopped me. And she's like, what do you mean? You're at your parents wedding? How how do how were you at your parents wedding? And I looked at her like she had two heads.

00;15;51;03 - 00;16;07;13

Larry Hagner

And I'm like, because I was thinking like, well, aren't we all like, that's kind of like I was thinking about it. But I remember my mom and him getting married when I was five, and I remember there was like this euphoric feeling in the house, like it was like our our family was complete. Like my mom didn't have to work anymore.

00;16;07;13 - 00;16;30;11

Larry Hagner

So, like, my dad made really good money. And then like, I remember sitting down for, like, family dinners and I'm like, wow, this is like really cool. And I remember us, like, going to we went to Disneyland in California when I was like six. And I was like, oh my gosh, like, this is like a vacation. And it probably was when I was about eight or so, 7 or 8 when I remember him and my mom's relationship, I just I never really saw it, but I sensed it.

00;16;30;11 - 00;16;55;06

Larry Hagner

I did see it, but I sensed that there was dysfunction. I sense that there was there was tribulation in their relationship, which they fought a lot. You know, they they beat each other up. Unfortunately, my dad, like, beat me up, beat my mom up. He was a heavy drinker and heavy hand. And I remember my mom, like verbally just beating the snot out of this guy.

00;16;55;12 - 00;17;17;21

Larry Hagner

Like emasculating him. Just god awful. Like just insulting him. And then he would get mad and, like, you know, take his aggressions out on her as well. But I remember, like, how disrespected I'm sure he probably felt and like he wasn't even really showing up, I would say as a masculine figure in the in the, in the marriage, like I saw my mom kind of dominate him.

00;17;17;23 - 00;17;52;08

Larry Hagner

And then by doing so, he would take his aggressions also out on me. So like he was very short tempered, really quick to losing his patience. And it was almost like that love and that guidance and that that really cool person that I saw early on was, was gone, you know, and it was like this sort of shell of a man who actually in that last year that they were together, he fell into this horrible depression and lost his job and like literally slept on our basement floor for I don't even know how long he slept on, actually, the patio furniture cushions on the on the foundation floor.

00;17;52;11 - 00;18;06;27

Larry Hagner

And I remember going down there when I was in fourth grade and going down to the basement because I was so worried about him, because I would barely see him come upstairs. And I was worried. I was like, is he eating or drinking? And I go down there and I put my hand like on him, like while he was napping.

00;18;06;27 - 00;18;21;25

Larry Hagner

And I would just make sure that he was still breathing, like, I, what if he's down there dead? Like, I kept thinking about that. And I do remember that was that that was more towards the end, but the light. And as I started going away and man, I could even at a young age, I could sense it.

00;18;21;27 - 00;18;29;28

Matt Howlett

What do you outline, for men to not avoid that, but to recognize that.

00;18;30;00 - 00;18;50;27

Larry Hagner

So I think it's the symptoms of the draft, you know, kind of like exactly how you just start to describe it. I think the draft really starts to come in, in this intuitional sense, in a way that it starts to just nudge you a little bit, right, of like, you know, if you're not feeling really connected to your wife, you know, you're not having physical intimacy with her on a regular basis.

00;18;50;27 - 00;19;12;01

Larry Hagner

You're not going out on dates, you're not connected. And like all of your talks with your wife are like this high level managerial type of, you know, the dinners, the activities, the kids. And it's nothing about you anymore. A lot of guys, I think, feel that nudge. And we feel like that tap on the shoulder of like, this is there's, there's there's a lot being left on the table as it relates to your marriage.

00;19;12;04 - 00;19;32;28

Larry Hagner

And then the same is true for men trying to connect with their kids. So like a lot of guys out there really want to connect with their kids, but they don't they we we guess a lot. We're like, I think this will work or I'm not really sure. It's it's like we kind of go in with this sort of flimflam sort of approach, and then we don't know if it's actually working.

00;19;33;00 - 00;19;52;27

Larry Hagner

So we just kind of like do it. You know, we kind of go through the motions. We're kind of like box checkers. And here's the thing, going back to what I was talking about before, I really want to compliment men because we do that because we have a deep desire to connect with our kids, but we don't know if tactically like the things that I'm doing, like, I don't even know if the things I'm doing are right, the right things.

00;19;52;27 - 00;20;10;15

Larry Hagner

I don't know if they're working right. So we tend to not approach that relationship with a lot of confidence, and it's usually the confidence factor that we feel or like, I don't I'm I feel really uncertain about this. So that's another, I think, symptom of the drift. Another symptom of the drift is what do you look like physically.

00;20;10;17 - 00;20;32;20

Larry Hagner

And so, you know, your your pitch, you know, your physical health is is the resume and the operating system of the mind. So I'm not saying you have to have a six pack to be a great dad, but if you have completely let yourself go from a physical health perspective, that's going to impact your emotional mental health as well, and it's going to impact your what we call in the group, it's going to you've got to be very protective of your energy, right?

00;20;32;20 - 00;21;07;12

Larry Hagner

Because if you're not protective of your energy, you're not going to have that energy to give. So another symptom is like, well, am I letting myself go physically right? Am I throwing myself on the sword of service for everybody else and physically? Does my body kind of look like a wreck? And that's another symptom of the drift. And then the final symptom of the drift I think, is it's it's how much joy do we have in the workplace, you know, is is the is the workplace becoming a, a a place where I basically feel like I'm selling my soul, you know, to do work that I feel trapped and doing.

00;21;07;12 - 00;21;16;03

Larry Hagner

Yeah. For the sake of just providing for my family, even though I hate every minute of it. So that's another, I think, nudge of the drift as well. Yeah.

00;21;16;05 - 00;21;32;01

Matt Howlett

So when men recognize, where they're at in their life and when they see that they're in the drift, they see these symptoms, they pick up on it. You mentioned in your book, when we don't have the knowledge, skills or even mentors in our life to help guide us through our drift, it will impact our confidence and fulfillment.

00;21;32;01 - 00;21;51;27

Matt Howlett

So what what does that look like for men to recognize those symptoms, to see that in their own lives, to, you know, come to that realization. And and I admit that this is where I'm actually at. I got to do something about this. How do they find that knowledge? Find the mentors, get those skills. Like what's the first step that you talk to guys about?

00;21;52;00 - 00;22;10;22

Larry Hagner

I so I think there's a couple different steps, right? I think the there's I always say that there's three types of men out there. And you know, there's there's the men out there who are the victim. Right. The victim is the one who will. And I was the victim. You know, the victim will point the finger at all of these things that challenge us.

00;22;10;22 - 00;22;28;23

Larry Hagner

And we basically, you know, look for proof. This is why I can't show up as a husband. This is why I can't show up as a father. This is why I won't be successful. And I'll give you an example of that in my own personal life when I, you know, I grew up with these. My mom was married three times, and every father figure that she ever married to your data was kind of the same character.

00;22;28;23 - 00;22;47;29

Larry Hagner

He was like a toxic party animal, you know, alcoholic at some some way, shape or form. But there's a lot of emotional toxicity, sometimes physical abuse. And I never really saw a, a good connected marriage or relationship. So I really hung my hat on that. And I'm like, well, there's no way that I could create a great marriage.

00;22;47;29 - 00;23;06;16

Larry Hagner

I've only seen bad. There's no way I could create a great connection with my kids. I've only seen the bad. And then, you know, there's a quote out there and it's so true that if you fight for your limiting beliefs, you get to keep them right. So if you're if you're hanging your hat on, that victim mentality of like, this is just the way that my life is, well, that's exactly what you're going to get.

00;23;06;16 - 00;23;29;15

Larry Hagner

And that's what we're going to get repeatedly. The the second type of man, I think is the one who is who is slightly woken up. Right. We call them the content zombies. Now, content zombie kind of has like this derogatory term of like, oh, so I'm a zombie. I'm like, well, no, not really be that. Because the content zombie is someone who is a woken up a little bit and they're tired of feeling like the victim.

00;23;29;15 - 00;23;47;23

Larry Hagner

You know, they're done with the victim and they just want to now, they want to start learning. And I think right in that area of like, that's where you realize you're in the drift and you're like, okay, if I'm in the drift, I can now take action. These are the guys that start listening to podcasts. These are the guys that start reading books.

00;23;47;23 - 00;24;11;27

Larry Hagner

These are the guys that are taking in information because they want to be better. But there's a problem with that. Information in doesn't mean information and tactical things implemented and then executed. It just means what it is information in. So like what a lot of guys will do. And I was I remember the first podcast that I started listening to and the first books on, you know, audio books I started listening to.

00;24;11;28 - 00;24;29;20

Larry Hagner

I got so excited about the things that I was learning. I would learn like 20 different ideas and then get really excited about it, never really implement any of them, or maybe sort of like 1Z2Z tri thing is sort of flimflam. Like I'm like, maybe I'll try this or sort of do this. And then I would just go back to old ways.

00;24;29;20 - 00;24;50;29

Larry Hagner

But then I continue to take in content to learn, learn, learn. But then I really look at my life and be like, why isn't my life changing? And it's it's a lot like kind of what we're talking about in like jujitsu. It's like, well, I'm reading the books about jujitsu and I'm podcasting. I'm listening to podcasts, but, you know, martial arts and jiu jitsu, but I'm never actually in the studio sparring and rolling and learning.

00;24;51;02 - 00;25;07;18

Larry Hagner

And that's the third man. The third man is done being the victim. The third man is actually done being the content zombie. And this is the third man is the executer. The third man will be like, okay, I know I was in the drift for sure. I in fact, I don't even know if I was woken up from it.

00;25;07;18 - 00;25;30;01

Larry Hagner

In fact, I would I would lay blame to all these other things in my life, which is the victim. Then I started taking in information, you know, which? I was hungry and eager. I realized there was something missing, but the executer is like, I'm actually going to implement implement what I'm learning, and I'm going to be within a group or a mentor that's going to hold me accountable to implementing these things for a sustained amount of time.

00;25;30;01 - 00;25;45;05

Larry Hagner

Right. And then when I come back, you know, week after week, and maybe I've tried that thing to connect to my wife or try that thing to connect with my kids, and it's maybe falling flat or it's not working. I can go back to that group and continue to learn and refine, to learn and refine, to learn and refine.

00;25;45;05 - 00;26;06;24

Larry Hagner

And that's what I think having a mentor in a group, that's why it's so powerful. This is why we don't do jiu jitsu alone. We do jiu jitsu in community and then in a studio with other people, with other like minded people who have the same vision that we can go practice and spar with. So then God forbid, if someone tries to attack us in the real world, it's like, you know, we'll hey, best of luck with that because now I have the skills.

00;26;06;24 - 00;26;15;23

Larry Hagner

Now I've been rolling and sparring and I can I can protect myself better and but you know, these these things that we learn about parenting and marriage and everything else, they're no different. Yeah.

00;26;15;25 - 00;26;32;24

Matt Howlett

There's a challenging disconnect there though. Hey, like, for guys when we're in the drift because we've all been there. I say we to be able to step back, you know, because if you can't have that objective view of where you're at in your own life. Right. So there's that disconnect of it makes sense to talk about jiu jitsu.

00;26;32;24 - 00;26;48;27

Matt Howlett

I'm not going to get in the ring unless I've been sparring, unless I've been training with someone else, you know, actually preparing myself for that. But then when it comes to our marriages, when it comes to, you know, our, our relationships with our children or just relationships with in general, we don't it's difficult to be able to step back and see that.

00;26;48;29 - 00;27;03;22

Matt Howlett

Right. How do you address that challenge? How does how does the man who maybe feel some of the symptoms and has had moments of waking up, or how do they push themselves to actually take that next step? I think that's that's one.

00;27;03;22 - 00;27;23;18

Larry Hagner

Of the hardest. And I think one of the most disappointing things that I've seen and in men and I and I will tell you, I was almost there myself. Men I've and I'm even had there a couple different kinds of guys. They're, they're, they're proactive guys and they're reactive guys. There are guys who will go to their wellness visits.

00;27;23;18 - 00;27;39;22

Larry Hagner

They'll get their oil changes, they'll get their teeth cleaned on a regular basis because they do not want their car engines to blow up. They don't want their mouth to rot out of their teeth. They'll they'll go get their their blood work done on a regular basis because they're like, I always want to be in front of a problem versus versus behind it.

00;27;39;22 - 00;28;06;10

Larry Hagner

Right. So there's two different types of men, you know, the ones who will do that type of work and ones who just won't. And it could be for so several different reasons. It could be like, well, it's not that bad yet, or I don't even want to think about the fact that I don't have this together for a guy, for a guy to even admit, like, I don't have this whole marriage thing figured out and this whole fatherhood, I mean, you really have to relinquish that takes a lot of courage.

00;28;06;10 - 00;28;25;16

Larry Hagner

Yeah, like I give guys the biggest props. Like, listen, if you're in that place where you're just like, I can't. I can't wing this anymore. Like, I know that there's there's more to this, and I'm done just trying to figure it out on my own. I give more props to that man than the guy who wants to hide and be like, no, I just need to figure this.

00;28;25;16 - 00;28;44;10

Larry Hagner

I just need to muscle my way through this because that takes a ton of courage. It takes a ton of bravery. It takes a balls of steel to be like, yep, I don't know how to do this right. But that's where the real healing and that's where the real movement in your life comes from is raising your hand and being like, I don't I don't really understand this.

00;28;44;10 - 00;28;46;22

Larry Hagner

I'm ready to go learn. Yeah, I think guys.

00;28;46;25 - 00;28;47;21

Matt Howlett

So I go ahead.

00;28;47;23 - 00;29;18;06

Larry Hagner

I was going to say the guys that wait for crisis, these are the guys that I, I always say that, you know, and I, I feel sorry for these guys. And I always, you know, I want better for these guys. But I will tell you that if you've waited to where your wife rolls over and looks at you and says, I don't know if I want to be married to you anymore, what I'll tell you is, unfortunately, you're probably too late because a woman who says that out loud studies have statistically shown that she's been thinking about that for a minimum of two years.

00;29;18;13 - 00;29;39;10

Larry Hagner

Two years. So, like, if if she has said that out loud, unfortunately for a lot of guys, you're screwed because you that that that was an indicator that your check engine light was on. Right. Everything's probably nudging you. You didn't go get your oil changed, you're feeling pain in your teeth, but you weren't on the dentist to get your teeth cleaned, and you just waited for that crisis to happen.

00;29;39;10 - 00;30;00;07

Larry Hagner

Well, now you need a whole new engine. Now you need to extract teeth out. Now it's too late, probably to save those things. But. So I always tell men I was like, if you're feeling me intuition. If you're feeling the nudge, do not ignore that. Those are warning signs. Those are red flags. That is like, hey, stop right here.

00;30;00;09 - 00;30;04;27

Larry Hagner

This is not going to be good if you keep doing this. And unfortunately, some guys will just wait.

00;30;05;00 - 00;30;20;02

Matt Howlett

Yeah, start small, but start now. I do not wait. As soon as you recognize that something is not the way that it should be, not the way that you want it to be. Figure out how to start small, but start now. What I was going to say is, I think that is the biggest challenge like you just mentioned.

00;30;20;02 - 00;30;38;11

Matt Howlett

But what I think the, the most challenging part of that actually, is, is that when you choose to be courageous and take that step and whatever that looks like, right, you know, speaking up and, trying to be different in, in your relationship with your wife or in your relationship with your friends or speaking out. But it's something that you don't like.

00;30;38;13 - 00;30;57;17

Matt Howlett

You might find that there's not a lot of support there from other men when they see how you're reacting. You know what I mean? Because if you're not meeting the societal expectations, then all of a sudden you become like the other. You become the person that they don't necessarily want to be like they're unsure about. They might feel maybe even challenged by.

00;30;57;19 - 00;31;27;01

Matt Howlett

And for me at least, I've found that that's the hardest part. Because when you're deciding to live differently, you're gonna stand out. Not everybody's going to like that. They're going to have their thoughts about it. And, one question I was going to ask you is you you kind of just brought it up, as did you think that the biggest, turning point, you know, is when these guys ignore the things for so long, like you mentioned, the check engine light and then all of a sudden you got to replace the engine when, like, when big crisis hits.

00;31;27;08 - 00;31;45;28

Matt Howlett

Is it just that or is it the like, you know, is it just that as the key that, you know, gets them to turn things around and change their lives? Or is it the need for like a real vision of what they actually could be living life, what what their could be in their marriage, what there could be in their friendships.

00;31;46;01 - 00;31;52;13

Matt Howlett

Do you think that is like just as helpful, more helpful, like the most guys just wait till crisis moments.

00;31;52;16 - 00;32;07;06

Larry Hagner

I think most guys do wait till crisis moments because they think what they're doing is, is we think what we're doing might be the right things, but we're really not sure, to be honest with you. But I think that there's a lot of men out there, unless you're in an environment. And this is not right or wrong.

00;32;07;06 - 00;32;28;00

Larry Hagner

It's just we're not trained to do this. But unless you're in an environment with other men that we're like, hey, let's create a vision of what your marriage could look like. Let's create a vision around what fatherhood could look like for you. Like, what are we celebrating? You know, after your kid is 25 years old and the things that you've done, like, I always like to put men in positions of vision because I think it's very revealing.

00;32;28;00 - 00;32;46;13

Larry Hagner

And how to do that is like so for instance, we have what in our group, we call it the 12 month, the five year and the 20 year vision. So it goes something like this. It's like so like as you and I are recording, it's July 21st, right? So like if I'm with a client and we're brand new to this, I'm like, okay, let's think about your marriage.

00;32;46;13 - 00;33;05;06

Larry Hagner

00;33;05;06 - 00;33;27;18

Larry Hagner

00;33;27;18 - 00;33;50;08

Larry Hagner

Like what does that look like? You know, in detail what does that look like. Because if if a guy surface level answer or something like that, they're like, well, I just want my marriage to be better. I'm like, no, no, no, no. What things are happening? What things have happened to you? You're celebrating, right? And when you get a guy who gives you very granular detail around those things, and then you ask him like, well, are you on that trajectory now?

00;33;50;12 - 00;34;04;08

Larry Hagner

Right. Is that happening now? Most of the time is like, no, it's not even close. I'm like, okay, well, let's get you closer to that vision. So that's the one year we do this same thing and five years. So I have these guys visualize like, hey, if you got a five year old right now, let's think about your kid a ten.

00;34;04;11 - 00;34;22;06

Larry Hagner

Let's think about, you know, your ten years of marriage. Let's think about 15. What are you celebrating with your ten year old son or daughter? What are you celebrating with your wife after 15 years? What has happened in this five year gap that didn't happen in the first ten years. That made this thing just absolutely unreal. And then those guys get really granular on that.

00;34;22;08 - 00;34;33;13

Larry Hagner

And then the final one is this I always love putting men in this position. I'm always like, hey, what? What you're like. So let me ask you, Matt, like, what's your favorite? What's your favorite adult beverage if you drank?

00;34;33;16 - 00;34;42;21

Matt Howlett

I don't know if I have a favorite, but I do really like a good sour, like a lighter beer. Like, maybe, maybe 5% or less, but a good good sour.

00;34;42;23 - 00;34;47;00

Larry Hagner

Good sour. And then your wife, what does she like to drink?

00;34;47;02 - 00;34;54;26

Matt Howlett

I don't know if she has a favorite either, to be honest, we don't drink a whole lot, but, she usually goes for a cocktail.

00;34;54;28 - 00;35;10;01

Larry Hagner

Okay, well, I just want you to, you know, and the drink is obviously it's more like to to get that that one of our five senses, you know, it's like when we think about it, like, you know, that sour beer or that cocktail, it kind of puts us in this place of like, okay, I'm there at that place.

00;35;10;01 - 00;35;24;16

Larry Hagner

Like, I can kind of I can taste it, right? And then I have a man, you know, visualize what I want you to think about. You know, you guys spending time on your back deck, you know, if that's a place that they really love to be, you're on your back deck and you're sitting next to your wife, and it's 20 years from today.

00;35;24;16 - 00;35;44;06

Larry Hagner

00;35;44;09 - 00;36;02;12

Larry Hagner

What exactly are you and your wife sharing between the two of you as you cheers and you're talking about these memories that you've made that haven't happened yet. And I usually have a man go away for like, anywhere from three days to a week. And then I meet with him the next week and I'm like, what'd you come up with?

00;36;02;14 - 00;36;24;21

Larry Hagner

And then he's really excited usually to tell me all these things that have happened. And then the cool thing about about casting that vision is I'm like, let's go make this vision happen now. Right? But one of the biggest missing ingredients is, is that we're not taught, you know, it's not like society tells you. It's like, hey, every every year you should cast a vision for the next 12 months, five years, in 20 years, you know, we just keep we keep blowing through life.

00;36;24;21 - 00;36;36;29

Larry Hagner

Yeah. In the drift. Right. And we're like, yeah, I'll get to that at some point. Or it's not even on my radar. It's just like, we don't live intentionally, but like, what would it be like to go create that vision, but then to go chase and do that vision?

00;36;37;01 - 00;37;02;19

Matt Howlett

Yeah, absolutely. Well, you, what I, what I'm hearing is building belief. Not just simply dreaming, but getting an idea, getting a vision for what your life could be like, what you could be like as a man in the different roles that you have, and then building a belief that that's actually possible. Talk to me a little bit more, because I think that is one of the most crucial steps in this whole, work that we have to do as men is building that belief.

00;37;02;19 - 00;37;24;05

Matt Howlett

Talk to me a little bit about that. How does a man do that? Like, if they don't have, like, a coach like yourself, if they don't have a mentor right now, they can obviously go and find one. But in this moment, like today, the guy that's listening to this podcast, whenever this comes out, what's the first thing to do to help, them along that path, to build that belief, to get that vision?

00;37;24;07 - 00;37;42;22

Larry Hagner

I think in order first to have that belief, you need to be you need to be jarred a little bit as far as like, you really need to be shaken by the shoulders and reminded of something. And there's a quote and I put it in the book and I think it was Napoleon Hill. It said it is that the definition of hell is, you know, meeting the man that you could have become when you're lying on your deathbed.

00;37;42;25 - 00;38;03;16

Larry Hagner

And I think about that quote a lot. I think about, like, I'll never forget the very first time I heard that quote, like where I was like, I was actually making a left turn in my car, and I heard that quote on a podcast. I was like, oh, my gosh, it just shot right through me. Like, what would it be like for me to be on my deathbed, to be surrounded by people that I love?

00;38;03;16 - 00;38;19;23

Larry Hagner

And then I actually get to meet the man that I could have become had I'd learned things right, and I'd done life just a bit differently, had I done life a little bit more purposely, wasn't in the draft and like, well, what would that man be telling me? What would he look like? What would he have done that I didn't?

00;38;19;25 - 00;38;40;19

Larry Hagner

And I think once you understand that life is fleeting. I mean, I'm 50 years old now and so I have more years, you know, in me now than I have in front of me. And I'll tell you, life goes really, really fast. And I, I am of the belief I do not want one thing left on the table, not one.

00;38;40;19 - 00;39;03;29

Larry Hagner

And I will tell you, I live my days to absolute exhaustion a lot of times. Like by the time I get to bed, I am completely wiped out because I've given everything I've had to this mission. I give everything that I have to my clients. I give everything I have to my wife, to my kids. But I also do it from this place where it's energizing, even though it's exhausting, that is fulfilling.

00;39;03;29 - 00;39;28;06

Larry Hagner

You know that it's coming from a place of confidence. It comes from a place of wanting to give energy, not necessarily take it away. Right. But in order for me to do that, I've got to learn those skills to give it. So I'm not this burnt out, stressed out, overwhelmed version of myself. Like a lot of us walk around are so like I before a man starts to look into mentors and starts to look into things like this, you've got to be jarred completely.

00;39;28;06 - 00;39;47;09

Larry Hagner

Like, almost like you've been electrocuted. Like this statement of like knowing that your life is fleeting and you have one shot at this whole thing called your life, your marriage and your kids, and you don't want to leave it on the table. You want to leave none of it on the table. You first have to buy into that.

00;39;47;11 - 00;40;03;19

Larry Hagner

Then the belief is this will my worthy of that am I worthy of creating this life? And the answer to that? And this is where men go to battle with themselves, because a lot of guys look in the mirror and be like, I'm just not worth it, you know? Or it's just too much work. Like, I don't even know if I'm worth this much work.

00;40;03;21 - 00;40;23;21

Larry Hagner

And I will tell you, every bit of the work that you do is worth it. There's never a guy that you know, no matter if I'm working with with a one on one client. And let's just say most guys come to me for marriage and let's just say his marriage doesn't work out. Never have I heard, because the work has to do with him.

00;40;23;21 - 00;40;41;07

Larry Hagner

We only control the man. We don't control necessarily the woman. In this situation. We have influence. We can inspire, encourage, but we don't have control. But I've never met a man even in the even in the situations where his marriage didn't work out, where he has stepped away from learning and he's growing and we've done a lot of work together where he's like, wow, I regret every bit of that.

00;40;41;09 - 00;41;00;26

Larry Hagner

Even though my marriage worked out, it's usually the opposite. Usually what I hear is like, if the marriage didn't work out there, like I had no idea how how much of a fork in the road my marriage really was and how much I was growing. And she wasn't like, I actually grew and I knew what I wanted, and I grew in confidence or anything else.

00;41;00;26 - 00;41;29;04

Larry Hagner

And she actually didn't come along for the ride. Right? So like, there's that. But I would say in most cases marriages do recover and they do work out. But there's I've never heard anyone say, I regret learning, I regret growing. There's there's always like positivity that comes out, even if the outcome isn't what you want exactly. The growth is usually something that men give tremendous gratitude, and they just always look to that, like, I'm better than I was before.

00;41;29;06 - 00;41;50;22

Matt Howlett

How did you get that mindset yourself? You've obviously learned some of the skills. That takes time, that takes mentors. It takes reading. You know, there's a long list of things that you do to to gain those skills. But how did you get that mindset? Because what you just mentioned or what you just said a moment ago, like basically getting to the end of your day with everything on the table, you're exhausted, you're done.

00;41;50;22 - 00;42;00;04

Matt Howlett

Like you've given it everything you could. How did you get to that place where you've got that mindset? Because I think that has to come in a sense, before the skills do it does.

00;42;00;07 - 00;42;18;01

Larry Hagner

00;42;18;01 - 00;42;52;05

Larry Hagner

And I yeah, I've been coaching men now for almost a decade, for nine years, and I've seen what good looks like and I've seen what not good looks like. And and I'll tell you, the thing that motivates the heck out of me is, is knowing that I'm not leaving anything on the table. And I think that's one of the hardest things to grasp because, because as soon as we start feeling like there's a lot left on the table and I'm just choosing not to go get it because it's too hard, that's not a life that I'm interested in that don't sign me up for that life.

00;42;52;07 - 00;43;08;27

Larry Hagner

I mean, that's not a life I'm interested in living. I want the life that, like, I gave everything I had right to to to that. I know that. And the people around me knows that versus like, yeah, hey, half assed just about everything, right? I'm not going to do that. That's not life. I want to sign up for it.

00;43;08;27 - 00;43;14;08

Larry Hagner

And I think I speak for most men when they say when they hear that, they're like, that's not a life. I want to sign up for.

00;43;14;11 - 00;43;31;25

Matt Howlett

Let me ask you this. Then this is a little bit more personal. How did you get the vision for yourself, for your life? It was it close to what you have now, like, is this what you've always kind of wanted? Married, several children, this specific type of work that you're doing. Where did that come from?

00;43;31;28 - 00;43;49;16

Larry Hagner

Yeah, that's a great question. I for it for the longest time and I don't I don't subscribe to this. And I don't even coach my guys to do this because it's it's something that actually will give you the opposite. When I first started this work, I knew what I didn't want, and I started noticing things that I didn't want.

00;43;49;16 - 00;43;56;17

Larry Hagner

Right. And when you start chasing things that you don't want, it's almost like trying to drive to a destination, looking in the rearview mirror.

00;43;56;23 - 00;43;59;10

Matt Howlett

Yeah. So it's helpful to know what you don't want it.

00;43;59;10 - 00;44;18;00

Larry Hagner

At least it's very helpful to know what you don't want. But what we focus on grows and what we focus on expands. So like, for instance, what it felt like for me in the beginning was you go to Lowes, you buy that brand new, you know, smoker, and then you open up the instructions in the box and no instructions say, here's 100 ways, not put this together.

00;44;18;00 - 00;44;39;07

Larry Hagner

Best of luck. You know, it actually gives you the instructions of how to put things together, right? So I would say, you know, the vision for where I'm at now, I, I would have I honestly feel like I'm blessed beyond measure because I'm a dad who, even though I teach this stuff, I coach to this stuff, you know, I'm still a knucklehead.

00;44;39;07 - 00;45;00;27

Larry Hagner

I'm still one of those guys that I have to get out of my own way. Almost on the daily. And the good thing about doing this podcast is that it keeps me sharp, you know, like, today is the first day that I'm raising a son who's 19 years old, six, six months and four days, and tomorrow will be the first time I'm raising a son who's 19 years old, six months and five days, you know.

00;45;00;27 - 00;45;18;16

Larry Hagner

So I've got to stay sharp. And I encourage all men to do that just to stay sharp. And if we're not staying sharp, you know that that's where I think we tend to set into that drift and going back to like the life that I get to live now. My wife and I have been together for 22 years.

00;45;18;16 - 00;45;41;08

Larry Hagner

We've been married for 22 years, and we actually just did a podcast together, and we talked about this journey that we've had, and if both people are willing to grow and if both people are willing to learn skills, to connect, to be selfless, like, how can I fulfill her needs of being seen, heard and safe? She asked the same, how can I fulfill his needs of being respected, appreciated, and physical affection?

00;45;41;08 - 00;46;02;01

Larry Hagner

Because that's what a man needs, right? When both people are willing to say, I will do the things that it takes to make this relationship work and learn the things that I need to learn to make this relationship work. We can actually create that vision for our life that we truly, truly want, you know, and those dynamics and, and all relationships that are so healthy.

00;46;02;01 - 00;46;23;02

Larry Hagner

And the final thing I'll say is this. This is the easy button for, I think, a lot of guys to leave more of that parenting fulfilling journey. Your wife has to read it. Three needs, like I said, feel seen, heard and safe. Your kids have the exact same needs of your wife, and it doesn't matter if they're a 19 year old boy or if they're a five year old boy, or if they're a 12 year old girl, or a four year old girl or an 18 year old girl.

00;46;23;05 - 00;46;39;01

Larry Hagner

Seeing, heard and safe is the same needs of your kids. So the good news for us guys is we don't have to go figure out two different types of needs for the for the two different types of relationships that are most meaningful for us in our life. We can actually fulfill all those needs, and do it very similarly.

00;46;39;01 - 00;46;44;28

Larry Hagner

Obviously, the intimacy thing changes with our lives, but the needs basis is the same.

00;46;45;00 - 00;46;55;18

Matt Howlett

The book again is called The Pursuit of Legendary Fatherhood. Break old patterns and create an epic legacy as a father and a husband. And correct me if I'm wrong, you're releasing it in September.

00;46;55;20 - 00;47;17;06

Larry Hagner

September 16th. Yeah, but if your audience goes to the data edge.com/legendary book, they can preorder it. And if they preorder it, I'm giving away two of my, courses that, I usually sell for 500 bucks apiece. One is, creating more patience. It's a 45 minute course to help men with resilience and responsiveness, birth versus reaction.

00;47;17;08 - 00;47;35;25

Larry Hagner

I teach them six skill sets within that. And then my other, of course, is creating extraordinary marriage through communication, through improved communication, connection and intimacy, where I teach 11 skills on how to better connect with your wife and fulfill those three needs that we're talking about. So if they order the book, they preorder the book, they'll get it signed in September, but they'll have access to those two courses right away.

00;47;35;26 - 00;47;37;25

Matt Howlett

Cool. What was that link again?

00;47;37;27 - 00;47;42;05

Larry Hagner

The data edge.com/legendary/legendary book.

00;47;42;07 - 00;47;46;03

Matt Howlett

All one word. Okay, I will.

00;47;46;06 - 00;47;52;29

Matt Howlett

One. We're okay. Sorry. It just froze there for a second. Just quick question about that process. This was the first book you wrote.

00;47;53;01 - 00;47;55;16

Larry Hagner

No, this was the sixth book I wrote.

00;47;55;17 - 00;47;56;16

Matt Howlett

Oh no way.

00;47;56;18 - 00;48;06;19

Larry Hagner

Yeah. So I've written two others. One was called The Data Edge and the other one was called Spirit of Fatherhood. Those are like big chapter books like this one. And then I've written, three kids books, so as well.

00;48;06;20 - 00;48;23;22

Matt Howlett

Very cool. Okay. Yeah. I only came across your content recently. A friend of mine, shared it, and I'm very glad that he did. So thanks. Jason Walsh, a little shout out. What was your favorite thing about writing this book? Because obviously it's like the culmination of, you said, over ten years of working with men.

00;48;23;24 - 00;48;43;05

Larry Hagner

I think it was that. It's such a good question. I think it was really just the simplicity of putting, you know, the tactical things in this book. So like I divide it up into four parts, which is number one is the drift. The second is husband, the third is father, and then the fourth is leader. And if you really look at those those four elements, you know, a man really experiences all four of those.

00;48;43;08 - 00;48;59;24

Larry Hagner

And but the, the real gap is, is like, well, how do I understand the drift and how am I aware of it? What are those symptoms look like. And I bring that to the forefront in the in the very first part of this book of like, it's more of a mirror, of like if you're feeling these things, number one, you're probably pretty normal.

00;48;59;24 - 00;49;19;19

Larry Hagner

But number two, it's these are, these are red flags that you should probably do something. And then, you know, the whole marriage thing, like what I've noticed is part two is that when you can get a man's marriage in order, a lot of a lot of these other elements, a lot of these other areas in life tend to fall pretty easily, in other words, in a good way.

00;49;19;19 - 00;49;39;17

Larry Hagner

So like if you can get a man's connection with his wife on point, the intimacy that he wants, the connection that he wants, the love that he feels, the love he wants to give, suddenly he becomes a more patient father, right? If his marriage feels really good to him, he becomes more productive person at work. His physical, mental and emotional health probably improves when his marriage gets better.

00;49;39;19 - 00;49;59;12

Larry Hagner

And then the third part is really, you know, kids, which is how do I connect with these kids? Not not necessarily be within their realm and within their orbit, but how am I like in their world, right? And how do I connect with them where they can like, point back and like, I'm the guy, like I'm their 3 a.m. call, like I'm like their go to for just about everything.

00;49;59;12 - 00;50;21;20

Larry Hagner

A guy wants to be that kind of dad. So like in that part where I teach you everything that we've learned over the past ten years on how to do that. And then the fourth one is leadership. And this is where I think there's a lot of confusion out there. And I give ten, ten elements of leadership that a man can really sharpen, as it relates to him leading himself, leading within his marriage and family, and leading his kids.

00;50;21;22 - 00;50;29;25

Matt Howlett

Very cool. Well, I want to keep true to the time that we booked. We're getting close to the end here now, Larry, it was a pleasure chatting with you.

00;50;29;28 - 00;50;30;29

Larry Hagner

Thank you for having me.

00;50;31;01 - 00;50;47;04

Matt Howlett

Yeah. Of course. I'm just glad that I heard about it and saw the post. It was actually the video where you're talking about the book and you're saying, hey, fellow podcasters. Like, if, you know, I'm opening up my, my calendar, whatever. And thanks to your team for the communication, setting this up, sending the book over. I wish you the best, man.

00;50;47;04 - 00;50;49;26

Matt Howlett

I'm going to. I gotta get a signed copy.

00;50;49;28 - 00;50;56;15

Larry Hagner

I'll ship it over to the Netherlands. That'd be great. Maybe. Maybe I'll. I'll just fulfill my bucket list and fly over the Netherlands.

00;50;56;15 - 00;51;00;23

Matt Howlett

Brother, I'd have to travel to the Netherlands to get it. I'm in. I'm in Newfoundland. Canada.

00;51;00;23 - 00;51;01;18

Larry Hagner

Newfoundland? Sorry.

00;51;01;19 - 00;51;20;03

Matt Howlett

No, no, no, man, that's that's a common. A lot of people do not know where Newfoundland is. It's the most easily province in Canada. It's an island. I mean, Newfoundland, Labrador, Labrador is connected to the mainland. Newfoundland is not. It's a very unique spot. If you ever come. Yeah. Bring the book along, but I'll take you out for all the Newfoundland things.

00;51;20;06 - 00;51;24;22

Larry Hagner

I would love it, man. I would love it. I mean, all the things you mentioned sound absolutely amazing. So I would love that.

00;51;24;26 - 00;51;33;11

Matt Howlett

It's a very cool spot for sure. Lots of things for your four boys to do, no doubt. Yeah. All right, brother, I appreciate your time. We'll see you.

00;51;33;13 - 00;51;34;27

Larry Hagner

See you.

00;51;34;29 - 00;51;53;28

Matt Howlett

Thank you for listening. I hope you found some value in this episode. If you have, be sure to share the podcast with a friend and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can find the akkeri on socials at the akkeri and on the web at the akkeri dot com.