Bishop Julius C. Trimble is the Resident Bishop of the Indiana Area of the United Methodist Church.

Bishop Trimble has the personal mission to encourage all people with the love of Jesus Christ to rise to their highest potential. It is his commitment to his personal mission that led Bishop Trimble to create the “To Be Encouraged” Podcast along with co-host Rev.Dr. Brad Miller.

Bishop Trimble says, “I am compelled by Jesus to share with you an encouraging word or two about Jesus, theology, the Bible, the pandemic, the environment, racism, voting rights, human sexuality, and the state of the United Methodist Church.”

To Be Encouraged with Bishop Julius C. Trimble is to be published weekly and is available at www.tobeencouraged.com and all the podcast directories.

https://www.inumc.org/bishop/office-of-the-bishop/

On Episode 107

**Episode Title: Moving Forward: Bishop Trimble and Rev. Dr. Mark Holland from MainStream UMC.com on Post-Conflict United Methodist Church following General Conference

**Podcast: To Be Encouraged**

**Host: Rev. Dr. Brad Miller**

**Guests: Bishop Julius C. Trimble, Rev. Dr. Mark Holland**

In this insightful episode of "To Be Encouraged," host Rev. Dr. Brad Miller welcomes two distinguished guests, Bishop Julius C. Trimble and Rev. Dr. Mark Holland, Executive Director of Mainstream UMC. The discussion dives deep into pivotal issues facing the United Methodist Church (UMC), such as regionalization, disaffiliation, and the church’s mission moving forward. Here are three key takeaways from this episode:

### 1. **Optimism Amid Change and Challenges**

Bishop Julius C. Trimble shares an optimistic vision for the future of the United Methodist Church. He emphasizes that the church has successfully navigated the challenges posed by the COVID-19 pandemic, which he believes were more daunting than the ongoing debates over human sexuality. Bishop Trimble highlights the resilience and steadfastness of the church, encouraging the community to seize this moment to share love broadly and continue the mission of making disciples. His excitement for meeting young pastors and witnessing the continued commitment to God's call is palpable, demonstrating his hope and encouragement for the UMC’s future.

### 2. **Fundamental Shifts: Regionalization and Disaffiliation**

Rev. Dr. Mark Holland explores the significant outcomes from the recent General Conference, particularly focusing on the topics of regionalization and the end of church disaffiliation. One of the historic changes discussed is the overwhelming support for regionalization, which saw a 78% approval rate at the General Conference. This move allows different regions to navigate their distinct contexts while remaining united under the same church umbrella. Additionally, the decision to stop allowing churches to disaffiliate marks a deliberate effort to cease divisions and conflicts within the UMC, fostering a more united and inclusive community.

### 3. **Removal of Discriminatory Language**

Both guests express a strong commitment to progressive change within the United Methodist Church. One of the landmark decisions discussed is the removal of harmful and discriminatory language from the church’s Book of Discipline. This change signifies a step toward inclusivity and neutrality, eliminating language that has caused marginalization while striving to keep the church’s teachings relevant and compassionate. The conversation notes that there was broad consensus and substantial support for this shift, reflecting a collective move towards a more just and affirming faith community.

### Closing Reflection

The episode wraps up with a moving prayer from Bishop Trimble and a heartfelt reminder from Rev. Dr. Brad Miller to always do good. The dialogue throughout this episode is infused with hope and a clear vision for a more unified and inclusive United Methodist Church, making it a must-listen for anyone invested in the future of their faith community.

**Tune in to "To Be Encouraged" for more inspiring discussions and reflections on faith, love, and the journey ahead for the United Methodist Church.**

https://mainstreamumc.com/

Hello again, good people, and welcome to this episode of the

to be encouraged podcast with Bishop

Julius c Trimble. It's the podcast we look to offer an

encouraging word to an often discouraged

world. A main focus in the United Methodist Church over the

last several years, but particularly in April May

of 2024 was general conference. It was a 2020

general conference advanced to 2024, and there's a whole story about

that that we won't get into details. But it was all about, dealing with

some significant matters in the life of the church, which have caused some great

angst over many years and to find some resolution to

those. And, that meant the advocacy groups have stepped

forward to advocate for various positions. One of those advocacy groups

is mainstream UMC. C may you can find it at mainstream

u umc.com. Their exec their executive

director, the reverend doctor Mark Holland is Bishop,

Trimble and my guest here today on this episode of To Be

Encouraged. Bishop, would you help us welcome reverend doctor Mark Holland to our

podcast? Well, thank you, Mark, for being with us

today and for your leadership in your local

community in United Methodist Church and certainly, your

voice via mainstream UMC. Glad to have

you. Thank you, Bishop. It's an honor to be here. Thank you, Brad.

Absolutely. Well, well, Mark, the the the mission of

matriarchy of C is a is to work for the unity of the body of

Christ. And we do know that in the last several years,

there's been a fair amount of disunity in the body of Christ in the United

Methodist Church, and yet we came together at general conference

of 2020 and the 24 24 to try to come

to some resolution regarding this matter or regarding

some areas. But I'd be interested to hear a little bit about your your take,

your vibe, kind of about the overall tone of the conference, and I know Bishop

will have some a few more, pertinent questions for you.

Well, I I think the biggest the biggest thing we saw we saw this

at our annual conferences last year in the United States. We saw it at the

jurisdictional conferences in 2022. We've seen it in

Europe and the Philippines where there's been a consensus about

moving towards regionalization and moving to live together

in disagreement. And I think that the folks who could not

live together in disagreement for whom, you know,

homosexuality is an existential crisis for them, went ahead

and left. And I think for the rest of us who gathered,

there's been a real sense of consensus that we're just not gonna agree on

anything. And it's like we do with our families, Mercy. If our families had to

agree on everything, we wouldn't have Thanksgiving done. We wouldn't get together

for Christmas and Easter. We wouldn't have family reunions or 4th

July. The reality is in order to

live together in civil society, we have to get along with disagreement.

And so we really saw that consensus developing. What we didn't know is if that

consensus would carry over to general conference, and it did. And I think it's

it's remarkable. One of the things I've said both in secular

politics and in church politics, if you're working just to win,

you're working for 50% plus 1, and you fail,

you fall back to logjam. And that's where Washington C is, and that's

where our church has been. But if you're working for consensus

and you fall back you can't quite get there, you fall back to majority,

a majority that people can live with. And so what we saw at general

conference I mean, my highest and best hope for removing the language is

53% based on our number counting, while we

got 60, 70% for removing the language, not

because everyone agrees with removing the language, but because people are in a

place where we can live with difference. The same

thing with regionalization. I thought it was a coin flip that we passed

regionalization, and we passed it

with 78%. And even if everyone who hadn't

been there was present and voting against it, it still would have passed

because there's a consensus in the United Methodist Church right now that we wanna live

together for the global mission. And it was powerful and

palpable to feel that consensus emerge through the

2 weeks in the legislative process compared to how it's been. I've

been a delegate or an alternate since 2000, and it has

been a toxic environment of division and

political wrangling and maneuvering. This was different, and it

was it was refreshing. Bishop, would you be in agreement about this sense of

a consensus? And what's your take on what, what Mark has shared

here? I think he's spot on. I I I I had to

come back and apologize to our cabinet about general conference

because I said prior to this, I said general conference tend tends to

be overrated. I was wrong because this this general

conference was not overrated. And I often said that, you know,

most significant change will happen outside of general conference, but I

think there was sea change in the United Methodist Church,

us moving to what several bishops refer to, but others

refer to as a post conflict church. Yeah. So I

thought there was consensus, but, also, what we like to lift up here

in Indiana, you know, there was a real opportunity for Christian conferencing.

And I saw that in several several places. So,

as Mark pointed out, even if the people that were not able to

make it there had made it there and, say, 75% of them voted

in in opposition to what passed, it still would have passed. So

I think the church is the church is at a different place. Obviously,

some of that's related to those who have already left

because as as Mark said, it couldn't be in a family where there was

significant live with significant disagreement. So I thought it

was a great conference, and it wasn't overrated. In fact, it,

if anything, it over delivered on what I expected. And like Mark,

I I was on the host committee in 2000 in Cleveland and

have been to general conference ever since then.

And it was the first time there was a conference where there wasn't disruption in

the plenary itself. There were protests particularly

around Gaza in the hallways and outside. I participated

in outside protests. But but there there

was there was a sense that that people who love The United Methodist Church,

love Jesus, wanted to see the church transition

to a post conflict church. Not to say that we there's gonna be no

conflict, but where conflict is not the number one thing on

the agenda. Well, Mark, your

mainstream UMC is an advocacy C, and so you worked hard

to advocate for several positions here entering general conference. And

you just indicated a second ago that there was some anxiety, but I was gonna

go, you know, in terms of the actual votes and so on.

Let's just break them down for a few minutes here. Let's break down

the 5 the 3 biggies as far as I'm concerned or my understanding, you

know, regionalization, removing a harmful language, and

stopping disaffiliations. There may be other things we wanna talk about, but really want

us to touch on those. So let's just start those kind of in the

order we I just mentioned them. Let's just track the the

regionalization issue, how it was going in the general

conference, how it played out during the conference, and what are kinda

little bit what the, impact or the aftermath

of the vote will be moving forward. Well,

the the biggest issue other than the other two issues, removing the harmful language

and the stopping disaffiliation, both required

only a majority vote. We were confident going in we had the majority

of based on our number counting from 2019 and

changes in voting and who is present, we were confident we had

those votes. The but only to the height of 53%,

honestly. That's that's about where that would be our highest

watermark if we had reached that. It could have been much closer.

But the the big thing about regionalization, it takes a 2 thirds vote. And you

don't get to 2 thirds if there's not a consensus. And all 5

jurisdictions in the US had voted aspirationally in 2022 to

support regionalization. The Philippines annual conferences, many of

them had voted aspirationally to support regionalization as had

conferences in Europe. The group we hadn't heard from, it was from

Africa, and that's about a third of the delegates. Now we heard a lot of

the Bishop saying in Africa that they were open to it.

But because of the communication gap, we couldn't

talk directly to many of the African delegates. 1, we didn't

know who they were. 2, the general conference used to publish

contact information and have stopped doing that. I think the lawyers

said you can't do that anymore, which we need to have people sign a disclaimer.

I think people need to put contact information on. They're an

elected official, frankly, and their own their own annual

conference should be able to But that's a whole another issue. But

Sure. We we weren't able to get deep enough into the delegations in

Africa to really know what was gonna happen. And what we learned was

there was a there's a consensus in Africa for regionalization

and significant. And that was the biggest,

the most pleasant surprise. And even after the

language was removed and even after the regionalization

passed, to hear some of the very traditional I mean, all of the bishops in

Africa are very traditional. I mean, not even kinda traditional. They're all very traditional.

You hear several of them, the very traditional bishops in Africa

saying, we saw what happened at general conference. We're committed to remaining

United Methodist. We're committed to regionalization. That is

the most endearing part of it. So I thought it was a

coin flip if it would pass. I was very skeptical it would be ratified because

now every annual conference has to vote, and the aggregate of that vote has to

reach 2 thirds. It's not 2 thirds of annual conferences. It's

2 thirds of all the members of annual. That's a very different number. So

I am more encouraged that ratification can occur. I do think we need to work

for it. My experience politically is things don't happen magically, but

you need to advocate and help message. So

I do think it's there, but I I think the the possibility is

there, and I feel a lot better about it following this vote.

And Bishop Bishop, would you be react to that? It sounds like it was kind

of a serendipitous type of, moment. The result, you know, just

a a god thing, if you will, that it did occur. But your your take

on what Mark just shared there about, regionalization,

how it played out. I concur I concur with what everything Mark has said.

I think one of the un unreported stories of general

conference is the fact that and there

was vocal vocal, confirmation of this

that many of the African delegates and certainly many of the bishops, and I've

worked closely with many of the African Bishop, have

such a strong love for the flame and the for crossing the flame,

the United Methodist as a as a body, as an

entity, as an identity that that

for them, regionalization made sense and and would

not compromise their ability to hold together

United Methodist in their their particular regions while there may be

some who who simply couldn't stay. But

I was not surprised that there was support,

and and and and I think it I think it behooves us not to

for anyone to take too much credit and just say as we said in the

beginning, it was general consensus and it was the work of the Holy Spirit.

Amen. But that's what the preachers were saying anyway that Right. You were preaching. It

was the work of the Holy Spirit. And so maybe God wanted to show

us that not only are you organizing, but but

but my will is that the church church be 1 going forward.

So I I concur with what what what Mark

said, and and I would have not predicted the numbers that the

that this past that the numbers that Give us a little give me a little

idea. I know it's around 500 delegates, and, you know, it was 2 thirds. Were

we well over the 2 thirds, or was it a close was it close to

There's supposed to be 862 delegates. I think there were only 750

C. And so we needed 2 thirds vote, but we got

78% Okay. Good. In the regionalization. 78%.

Wow. How about that? Overwhelming. And as Bishop said, you

know, there are a 100 plus delegates that weren't there. Maybe a 110

delegates who weren't there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If all of them had voted

no, it still would have been 2 thirds if all of them had voted no.

And we know we lost a ton of pro regionalization votes of people who couldn't

get there. Sure. That's very good. I think that consensus was So

the con the consensus was clear is all I really wanna get with that point.

The consensus was clear with the body. Let's move on then to to

the removal of harmful language. So, Mark, give us your take on how

that played out entering to general conference, how it played

out during the conference, and maybe some implications moving forward.

Well, we were again, we're pretty confident we had the votes. You know,

2019, the 1 church plan failed by

50 votes, and the traditional plan failed by or passed by 50

votes. And that was not a consensus. And we

needed 26 people to change their mind. Well, following that

2019 vote in February, in the spring, May

June in the US, annual conferences elected new delegations

and overwhelmingly voted out a number of the

traditional delegates and put in centrist and progressives.

Indiana saw this. Great Plains saw this. I mean, a lot of conferences

across the country. We knew we picked up the 26 votes we

needed to reverse that decision as early as 2019.

Then which is why they came out and asked for the protocol

because they knew the the conservative organizations

knew that they were not gonna be able to hold the line because we had

picked up the votes. Then with disaffiliations, the US lost 25%

of our of our votes or our members. But the general

conference did not recount votes, so we backfilled people

who had left with centrist and progressives. So we knew we had

even more votes than we had before. And then we were picking up

support around the world. So going in, we were very confident we had

the votes to remove the harmful language, and we were pretty specific in our coalition

that we didn't wanna add language. And this was controversial

because many, on the left wanna add affirmative language

of nondiscrimination language against gay and lesbian people, which we've done in the

secular communities, particularly in the United States. And there

was a real holding of our coalition to say, you know, we

wanna be clear. There's room for everyone. We want traditionalists in our church. We want

conservatives in our church, and we're going to hold the line on just removing

the language and reverting it back to neutral. And letting the annual conferences

decide who's eligible for ordination. Let churches

and pastors decide who who does weddings and not

not move further forward. That was very controversial on our coalition, but

we were we didn't wanna do that with a 51% majority. That

just feels harmful. Right? It just feels harmful to

to forward in. We need to find consensus yet on where we're headed. We

found consensus on removing the language. I think we need to hold that. So we

got huge numbers. I mean, it was passing in the consent calendar by 90%. Now

the consent calendar skewed because I would predict the

majority of delegates do not read what's on the consent calendar. But

we were even getting things that came up for a vote. We're getting 65

70%, which means people recognize it's time to move forward.

Sure. And it sounds like in effect, the effect,

we just moved as as far as the book of discipline goes, we just

went back to, what, 1972 discipline or something like that. Right? Is it

kind of what, in effect, what what we did? So well,

Bishop, react to what, Mark has, shared here and

particularly how you think the vibe in the room was or

how people reacted to this. I know this has been the

contentious point in the church for decades,

but now we have this moment of some resolution. Well, I'd I like the

quote from, doctor Ashley Bogan, the,

general secretary of United Methodist Archives in

History. This is the first time in 240 years

that the Methodist Church has not had discriminatory language in

its book of discipline. So if we go back to slavery and we

go back you know, whether slaveholders, we go back to segregation,

essential jurisdiction, the the the

the right for women to become ordained preachers of so forth and

so on and so that this is the first time we've not had discriminatory

language in our book of discipline. So this is a watershed

moment. And Bishop Tracy Smith, along the new

president of the council, the bishop said that we don't this is not a time

for us to show up stingy with grace. I really like that quote.

So I think that the onus is on the United Methodist

Church now really to impact our communities

because now our ecumenical partners and interfaith partners said, okay. You

no longer have an infighting. Let's get on with the business of transforming

the world. Making disciples but also transforming the world.

So I I think this I used to people used to

ask me, you know, they try to get bishops in in a trick bag and

say, well, do you do you adhere to the book of discipline? I said,

yes. They said, what about every single word in John? I said, well, I think

we have contradictions in our book of discipline. We say we welcome all people,

and we are we are commended to and mandated to be in ministry with and

for all people. Then we had contradictory language

except for if, you know, you're practicing homosexual, you

know, that's incompatible with Christian teaching, and you can't be ordained.

So I think now we no longer have those contradictory

sentences in the same paragraphs, if you will. It was significant. It'd

be interesting to hear Mark's take on this. When, someone came to the

floor and it it it was briefly discussed or

debated, there was a need to add marriages between a

man and a woman. I know for I know for traditionists here in Indiana

and other places, by just affirming that marriage is between a

man and a woman and adults of legal

age, then then there wasn't there wasn't a dismissal. Now some

would have preferred there would be no reference to that, but I think that would

goes back to what Mark said about some consensus. How do you how do you

bring about consensus? I don't wanna speak for you. Mark, how do you reflect?

Bishop, I thought that was an amazing moment on the floor of general conference

because we knew the definition of marriage was gonna be an issue in the revised

social principles. Now the coalition had the 3 r's, you know,

revised social principles, removing the language, and and

regionalization. Mainstream clumped removing the harmful

language and revised social principles together as a single goal because they both

accomplished that. And then we added stopping disaffiliations. But

that I think that moment when a a woman from Africa who had

just been elected to our to

our judicial council. This is a woman who's just elected.

So she's the one you know, she's was lifted up by Africa as

as a leader and came to the microphone and

offered this amendment that obviously got bogged down in parliamentary

procedure the

course

state the course and ultimately what she presented from Zimbabwe

was it's she recognized we agreed to

disagree. That we recognize in Africa is between a

man and a woman, and in the United States, it's between and for some people

in the United States, it's between a man and a woman. For some people in

the United States, it's 2 consenting adults. So if I

remember putting both of those in there in kind of an awkward parenthetical

statement, it works. And it passed

by, like, 80%. I mean, it was a it was an overwhelming

consensus moment to say something that we failed to pass in, Bishop.

I don't know if you remember this at general conference. I think it was at

2012 in Tampa. There was a resolution said, we

agree to disagree, and it failed,

like, 5149. Which proved the point.

It proved the point. It proved the point. So I was

really surprised. There was no one who had

who was contemplating that. What we were prepared to

do in the coalition was just to vote it through as as it stood. But

that compromise really caught people un

unaware, and it was the right thing at the right moment. It

was a holy spirit moment to agree to disagree, and it was powerful.

I think it also strengthens the case for regionalization

as well. Sure. That's exactly right, Bishop. I think it's it's interesting how

all these issues seem to come together, and they're I wasn't at general

conference, but it's both of you, I'm hearing you say there was just some kinda

god moments here. So things where things came together that just C to be of

the holy spirit, and that's a a cool thing. But I do want us to

touch on the other kinda hot button issue because it's interrelated to these other 2.

Of course, when we talk about harmful language, that led

to a process of disaffiliation over the

last several years. And one of the other

matters that was taken up that, majorly, UMC

particularly was pointing to was to stopping, you

know, stopping the disaffiliation process. So can you speak to that and how

that came up at general conference and how it was addressed? Well, there were

several petitions to extend paragraph 2553. Paragraph

2553, you might remember, was written by traditionalists. It was amended

on the floor in 2019 where everyone kinda chipped in

to make it better because it was terrible. It was worse than it is.

And 2553 is part of the traditional plan that was forced on the

church, and it was designed to get the quote, unquote liberals

to leave. And what in fact happened was when

they realized they won the vote but lost the church,

the conservatives decided to take their own gracious exit,

which is what they call it. They call it the gracious exit, and then did

nothing but complain about the terms of it. Let me just remind you, you

wrote it. If it's good enough for the, quote, unquote, liberals, it's good

enough for you. So they and of course, centrists are the ones who

just get caught in the middle thinking why is everybody fighting. So this this piece

on the disaffiliations went through

25% of churches left. In Great Plains, we had about 25% leave.

We kinda match the national average. And That's

about what we had in Indiana too. Right, Bishop? In that neighborhood? I forget. A

little more than that. We had a little more than 25%. Okay. And we but

we had 4 year as I said last and the conference,

I said people have had 4 years to disaffiliate. If they couldn't

disaffiliate, and then they did did need an extension. So

but I think some people came to this recent general conference

anticipating, not that promises were made, but

there were Bishop, and I know there were others who were saying, you know, let's

see what general conference does. And no one said that there was

gonna be an extension, but I think some people some

people who were not prepared fiscally or

otherwise to disaffiliate were anticipating or hoping that

there would be some extension or some new revised

2553. And I think the general conference said, this is

not helpful to advance the cause of the mission of the church,

and it's it's it has expired sunset,

and let it be gone. And, Mark, that was an over that was an overwhelming

vote too, I believe. Overwhelming. In fact, it never made it out committee. It never

came to the floor. It went straight through consent calendar. I mean, nobody even

it was dead on arrival. Yeah. And just to be clear, Mark, what it it

affect means is that the window opportunity, as it were,

closed December 31, 2023 for churches to

disaffiliate, and the effort to extend that window

was denied by the voted general conference. That's what we did. Right? That's

what we did. And I will re I'll reiterate, churches

have always come and gone from the United Methodist Church. And so there have always

been provisions for churches to leave. Those still remain in the book of discipline.

What it means though is this was kind of a sweetheart deal

where, you know, you had new church starts

where annual conferences had invested literally 1,000,000 of dollars

into properties and churches. Watch that

investment walk out the door. Yep. Right? And and

United Methodist Faithfully United Methodist funded these churches, and they

walked out the door with with all of them. Yeah. Yeah. So that that

was a big piece of 2553 is, obviously, there are

legal implications, federal law. You've gotta pay your part of

a pension. You can't walk out of a pension plan. You can't walk away from

a pension plan legally. So they had to pay their portion of the pension,

which is required. Now the conference can negotiate.

Cabinet trustees can negotiate with any church that doesn't want that doesn't wanna

stay at the terms of departure. What I didn't wanna see was

another top down because there were a lot of conferences that did this

well. I mean, we had churches you know, the Texas conference

lost half its churches. The idea of reopening it.

So every church because here's the harm. It's when

there there were churches that got divided just over whether or not to

vote, by putting by taking off the table the opportunity to

vote, then the churches can just say, hey, we're done. And

people need to make a decision of where they wanna go to church. And, you

know, I think the dividing of congregations could

not continue. And opening another window for 2

more years, 3 more years well, what good news wanted was 2029.

Right? They wanted just this fight to go on forever. We're done

fighting. It's back to what the Bishop said. We're in a post conflict

denomination. Sir, and this pro mission. And this is just

an area to kinda stop the bleeding. You know, there's still a process here, and

let's get on with, ministry. So, well, Mark, the

the vision and mission of this particular Bishop, Trimble's podcast is to

it's called the to be encouraged. And I like I always like to

give the bishop the last word, but I'd like to have you to kinda give

your take on kind of these the story, the

narrative of of general conference in

terms you know, kind of incorporating some of the the cuss discussion we have

today. But what out of that leaves you encouraged for the

church moving forward? Because now we gotta take every local church and

every local church pastor now has to take what general conference has done and

apply it to their situations. What encourages you?

Well, Brad, I wanna thank you for the opportunity to be on your podcast. Again,

Bishop, thank you for the invitation. It's an honor to share the time

with you. My encouragement is that we are in

a in a post conflict church. My encouragement is we're

we have a great mission to make disciples of Jesus Christ for the

transformation of the world. And that's what we're called to do. That's who we are.

I'm a 3rd generation Methodist pastor. And

my great grandma, our jurisdictional conference

in South Central will be at Rogers, Arkansas,

and that's Central United Methodist Church. That's where my great grandfather that's the church in

which my great grandfather was ordained in 1920. Wow. And so,

actually, my dad's coming with me. I'm bringing him to jurisdictional conference so we can

be there together. But this is my dad's a retired clergy

in in Great Plains. I'm encouraged by saying my

dad is fond of saying that history of the church is written in centuries, not

in decades. Mhmm. And we've had some tough

decades in the United Methodist Church, but God is not done

with us, and God is not done with the church. The church has survived 2000

years of human occupation, and the church is gonna continue to

march forward for to spread god's will in this in this world. So I'm

encouraged by that. I'm encouraged by the by the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I'm encouraged by the leadership we have in our bishops. I'm encouraged by

the direction we're moving as a denomination. I think it's a new

day, and I think we need to celebrate that and live into it.

Awesome. The, I love what you said. You know, this whole thing about, you

know, the post conflict church, we'll see how that plays out. So,

Bishop, how about a a last word, an encouraging word from you about what our

conversation here was entailing, and maybe you could close us with a prayer,

please. Well, I I I'm encouraged by just the

the the vast number of people who still hear the call of

God. You know, we celebrated a number of deaconesses

that are sent forth from general conference to do ministry in their local

communities here in the US and across the globe.

And we are looking forward to now to annual conferences taking

place in the US and across the globe where the United

Methodist Church will be able to respond to children who are

in poverty, or they'll be respond to the needs of our particular

community to be able to speak clearly. And I'm excited

about the fact we have after 12 years of of

revised social principles. You know? That was 2,012 when this

that work began. And so they have revised social principles

that are more user friendly across the globe, not just

US totally US centric. There's a lot to be excited

about particularly for those who have years

yet to go. You and I, Brad, we're we're in a

different chapter of our ministry, but there are others who are following us.

And I'm excited about the folks I just met at our at

our Rem retreat, the pastors who have a lot of years

ahead of them that are going to be doing United Methodist ministry. So

I think we're I've said this time and time, Brett, we've had

podcasts about this. I said if the pandemic couldn't kill the church,

nothing could kill the church. So I don't I don't think that our

our our our long standing debate about human sexuality

was nearly as challenging as a 2 slash 3

year pandemic. And we we find ourselves now

we've we shifted and moved. We now you know, we're slowly

we're dragged into the 21st century with social media

platforms. But I think if the pandemic and and my

theology is such that the church is of god. And so

Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail against my church. So I think

it's a great time to be a Christian and follow-up Jesus and a

great time for people to to know that they are loved and

for us to take the responsibility to share that that

share that message widely and broadly. Did you wanna close us with prayer, Bishop?

Absolutely. Lord god, we give you thanks and praise for the gift of

life and for the gift of love.

And because you've given us life, we have the opportunity to

spread your grace, your love, your mercy in all

communities, all places with all people. Bless us to be a blessing,

Lord, and we will continue to give you all praise. In Jesus'

name, be encouraged. Amen. And we do thank you for

listening to the 2 Be Encourage podcast with

Bishop Julia c Tribble. Our special guest today, reverend

doctor Mark Holland, executive director of mainstreamumc

dotcom. You can find the links at to be encouraged.com.

Speaking for reverend doctor Mark Holland and, Bishop

Trimble, I'm reverend doctor Brad Miller reminding you to always

do all the good that you can.