This is week two of a five part series on our relationship with our daughters-in-law. Last week we talked about weddings. If you missed it, you can go back and listen to that one too!

This week is about a shift in how we think about our role. One of my daughters told me an idea that really resonated with me. She said a daughter-in-law isn't looking for another mother. She already has one. What she's looking for is more like a fun aunt. Someone who's interested in her, who enjoys her company, who doesn't carry any expectations.

I talk about what that actually looks like. What it means to step back from being the expert on our sons, even when we genuinely think our experience could help. I share a story a friend told me about trying to pass on everything she'd learned about her son's struggles to his new wife, and how that landed differently than she expected.

We also get into some real, practical ideas. Texts that feel like support instead of pressure. Small gestures that say I see you as your own person. And a few sweet stories from the young women I interviewed.

If you want weekly thoughts like this sent straight to your inbox, head to brookeoniki.com and join my newsletter. It's called Real Moms, Real Talk, and I'd love to have you there.

Welcome to Midlife with Brooke.

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I am your host, Brooke Oniki.

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I'm a disciple of Jesus Christ,

a wife, mother, grandma,

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and a certified life coach.

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On this podcast, we talk about all things

mothering, health and emotional wellbeing.

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I share practical tools and

examples from my life and from the

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lives of my clients to help you

navigate this new season of midlife.

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It can feel tricky and confusing and

a little bit out of our comfort zone

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as our children grow up and they

don't really need us in the same way.

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These concepts and principles have changed

my life and I've watched them change

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the lives of my clients, and I hope that

they can be helpful if there are things

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that you wanna change in your life.

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So let's get started.

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Hi, welcome to the podcast.

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This is a series of five podcasts

about your relationship with your

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daughter-in-law, and I interviewed

several girls who are in their late 20s

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and early 30s about their relationships

with their mothers-in-law, and I

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broke it into five different areas

that I thought were really useful.

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The first episode was on weddings,

so if you didn't hear that one, you

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might want to go and check it out.

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Today we're gonna talk about being

the fun aunt, so I will explain

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that further in just a second.

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But I want to harken back to last week and

share something that I thought was really

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profound that one of the girls said.

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She said, joining a new family is a little

bit like moving to another country."

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We don't know the language.

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We don't know the customs.

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So when we join a new family,

there's a whole lot of things to

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learn, and our mother-in-law can

be a really helpful resource to us.

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It can feel like she is a friendly

local in this new country, or it may

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feel like she's border control, that

it's hard to break into this family.

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It's hard to feel known

and understood and loved.

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And so I know most of us feel like

we're trying to do a good job and we're

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trying to be friendly and we're trying

to get to know our daughter-in-law.

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But hopefully today I'm gonna share

some things with you that will

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help you to feel like you have even

more resources to do that better.

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But before I get into those ideas, I

want to invite you to join my email list.

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I'm not doing as much on social media

lately, and so if you're on my email list,

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you'll get weekly tips and support from

me that will help you in any relationship.

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And people who are on my email list

reach out to me regularly to let me

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know that the content that I share

there is super helpful to them.

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So I would encourage you to go to the

link in the show notes that will allow

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you to get onto my email list, or you can

just go to my website at brookeoniki.com

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and a little thing pops up that

says, "Real moms, real talk.

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You just put your email in

there and then they will just

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automatically come to you each week.

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So I would encourage you to do that

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Also, before we start, I just want

to point out that sometimes as

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mothers-in-law, we feel a little

resistance to topics like this because

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we might be thinking, "Why am I the

only one who has to work on this?

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Shouldn't she be trying as well?"

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And the answer is maybe, but

we're only in charge of ourselves.

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We're only in charge of our own

brains and our own behaviors.

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So if we're waiting for our

daughter-in-law to change or to be kind or

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interested first before we are going to be

kind and interested, then it's going to be

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hard for us to make progress because we're

waiting around for someone else to change.

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So this podcast isn't about

making other people change.

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This podcast is about what can I

do to create a life that I want?

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And I realize that other people

have agency and get to make choices,

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but the more I choose to live in

alignment with how I want to be

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the better I get to feel.

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And as people start being the

kind of person they want to

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be, relationships do change.

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And maybe it doesn't happen as rapidly as

you would want it to, but in some cases

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it happens much faster than people expect.

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So I just hope that you'll listen

with an open mind and just see, "Is

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there one thing I could try here that

might make my relationship with my

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daughter-in-law a little bit better?"

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As I was preparing for this, I also had

a conversation with one of my daughters

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who is married, and she said, "I don't

think people are looking for a mother.

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We all have a mother already."

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She said, "I think the role

of a mother-in-law ought to

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be more like a fun aunt."

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And I thought about that.

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my daughter has some really fun aunts

People that she really looks forward

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to seeing at family reunions, and

that she laughs with and talks with.

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And I also have some fun aunts,

and I never felt like they had

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any high expectations of me.

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They were just interested in me.

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They thought I was funny and smart

and liked my stories and liked to talk

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to me, and I liked to talk to them.

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And I think about all of the women

in my life that have made me feel

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important and valuable, and some of

those are my aunts and some of those

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are my sisters or my sisters-in-law.

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And I thought, "I like the idea of

having that kind of a relationship

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with my daughter-in-law."

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I'm not her mother.

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She doesn't need a mother.

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She already has a mom.

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But I can be someone who's interested

and loving and supportive and wants to

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hear her stories and wants to hear what

she's working on, and I don't have to have

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any judgment for her or any expectation

or see her as a reflection on me.

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I can just learn to be supportive

and interested in her and getting

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to know her as an individual outside

of her relationship with my son

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Think about your own fun aunt, or

maybe it was a great young women's

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leader, or a teacher that you loved,

or a neighbor that you really loved.

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What did you love about them, and

why were they so impactful to you?

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I have so many women like this in my life.

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One of them was Flora Bardwell.

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I worked with her at the Crossroads

Restaurant in Tremonton as a baker.

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She was in charge of the salad

bar, but she also helped me with

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my baking skills when I started

working there when I was 16.

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And she treated me like I was

just the smartest girl in the

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world, and I loved her so much.

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She was probably in her late 60s,

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Her, her husband died when she was pretty

young, and she raised her kids by herself.

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And we used to just have these

great conversations, and I

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admired and loved her so much.

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She didn't really have a

motherly role in my life.

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She wasn't judging my clothes or

my behavior or any of those things.

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She was just helping me be better

at my job She taught me a lot about

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efficiency and organization, and

she taught me lots of great baking

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skills, and I'm so grateful to

have had her influence in my life.

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So even though she wasn't an aunt, she was

one of those women that I really looked up

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to that was really impactful in my life.

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So consider that.

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Who are the fun aunts in your life, or the

women that really made an impact on you,

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and what were the qualities they had that

made it so that you felt so drawn to them?

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And consider how can I be that fun aunt

role in the life, of a daughter-in-law.

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Some of the qualities these girls told

me in my interview that they would

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like to see in their mother-in-law is

someone who's confident, unassuming,

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curious, non-judgmental, genuine,

willing to serve, interested in you,

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encouraging, loving, not so tied to

your identity, warmth without pressure,

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asking instead of assuming, and letting

the relationship grow at its own pace.

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We're not gonna instantly be

bonded, that we need to have

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time and experiences together and

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go on vacations together and

have conversations together

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and learn about each other.

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Just like any relationship,

they grow over time

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They also talked about how it's nice

to feel like someone's on your side.

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I'll refer you to a story in episode

one where one of them shared how she

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was hurt by her fiance at the time and

started to cry, so she went out into the

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car, and her soon-to-be mother-in-law

came out there, and said to her, "I know

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he can be really difficult sometimes."

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And this girl said, "It was so

meaningful to have her validate my

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feelings, and not defend her son, and

just be kind and supportive of me."

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And I thought that was a really

sweet example another thing one

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of my interviewees said was, "We

may not need you in the same ways,

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but we still really need you.

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We need your love and

support and kindness.

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We need your belief in us and trust

in us and your encouragement."

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She said her own mom had kind

of checked out once all of her

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kids left home and just said

basically, "My job is done here."

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But her mother-in-law has stayed

lovingly involved with their

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family and has become a really

important presence in their family.

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And so she just really encouraged mothers

and mothers-in-law to just recognize

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that your job isn't obsolete, it's just

that your job description has changed.

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And so when we can be flexible and

move into a different role instead

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of the role we've always had, we can

create new connections with our adult

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kids and also with our adult in-laws,

and I think that's a beautiful thing.

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I also want to caution you that

sometimes we struggle to take on

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this fun aunt role because we feel

like we're an expert on our kids.

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We feel like we know their moods,

that we know their temperament, that

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we know all kinds of things about

them because we are their mothers.

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And so you may be tempted to want to

advise your daughter-in-law about your

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son, and that isn't always well-received.

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I had a friend reach out to me recently.

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She has a son who went through lots of

anxiety and depression growing up, and

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they had learned a lot of things about how

to help him best, and she found herself

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trying to share all this information

with her new daughter-in-law because she

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thought it was gonna really help her son.

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And The daughter-in-law

didn't take it very well.

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And so she was asking

me, What should I do?

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She really wanted to pass this

knowledge on to the daughter-in-law.

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And I told her, of course this

information would help her, and of

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course it would be valuable, but she's

not in a place to receive it right now.

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First of all, you're his mother and

she's his wife, so your role with him

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is different than her role with him.

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And the way he shares and interacts

with her is gonna be different than the

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way he shared with you as his mother.

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And so thinking that we can just

pass on all that we've learned and

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download it into the brain of our

daughter-in-law is just not correct.

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They're gonna have to develop their own

dynamic, and she's gonna have to learn

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how to relate to your son and the things

that he's going through in a different way

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because their relationship is different.

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Even when it's genuine help that

you're trying to give to your

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daughter-in-law, It may land differently.

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It may seem like criticism or seem like

you're overstepping your bounds because

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the daughter-in-law's relationship

with your son is its own thing.

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So when this shift takes place, when our

son gets married, we need to recognize

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that explaining the inside scoop isn't

gonna be helpful unless she asks, right?

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She needs room to become

the one that he confides in.

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It used to be your role, but now it's

hers, and that can feel really hard

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The ache is real, and stepping

back feels hard, but it's such

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a blessing to their marriage.

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When we stay too involved, it

can feel really threatening.

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stepping back allows you to become a

cheerleader, a mentor, and a safe place.

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But when we're always trying to be

involved and give advice and tell

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them what we've already learned,

it can feel overbearing and

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judgmental, and it implies that we

don't think they can figure it out.

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So when we step back into that

cheerleading role, they may

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come and ask our advice, and

they may not, and that's okay.

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But stepping back allows them to

create their own dynamic, which is

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much healthier for their relationship.

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So I need to do some self-check

questions like, am I giving

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advice that nobody asked for?

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Am I still assuming that it's my job

to fix or to plan or organize or lead?

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You can offer advice, but it

doesn't always feel like love.

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One of the best gifts we

can give to them is room.

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Room for them to choose each other, room

for them to prioritize their marriage and

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create the kind of relationship they want.

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So I know that's a little heavy,

but I hope you'll consider that

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it's really important for us

to let go of being the expert.

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So on a lighter side, what does it look

like to practice the fun aunt role?

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What do you do with your own nieces?

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Like, how do you bond with them?

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What are some things that you do?

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Usually we just ask them about their

life, their work, the things they're

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doing, any hobbies they have, things

that they're interested in, right?

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And then we can follow up on these

hobbies and interests that we know

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about that they mentioned weeks before.

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Like, how is that thing going?

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How is that class that you took?

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We can send something small and unrelated

to the family, like an article or a meme

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that you thought was funny or a recipe.

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We can invite her to something like

lunch or going to a movie or doing

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some craft night with your other

daughters or other daughters-in-law,

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things that allow them to be with you

away from your son because then we

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can develop a relationship with them.

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We can comment on social media posts

that she has that are just about

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her and not about the grandkids.

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We can give sincere compliments.

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We can have genuine curiosity about her

interests, even if they're things that

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we aren't necessarily interested in.

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We can make sure that we keep

confidences confidential, even

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if they're just small ones.

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Sometimes we get in trouble when we

relay news that isn't ours to relay.

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So don't share with a family member

what another family member said.

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We can really be careful

to keep a confidence.

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We can remember her favorite drink

or a snack and have it ready.

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We can notice something she likes and

surprise her with it on an ordinary day.

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We can ask her opinion

and then actually use it.

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I do this a lot.

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My daughter-in-law's an expert

cook, so I ask her opinion about

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meals and preparation when we have

family reunions or big dinners.

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We can be curious about traditions

that she brings from her own

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family instead of comparing.

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One girl told me that the first year

she was married, her mother-in-law made

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a stocking that looked just like the

other stocking so that she had one now,

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and that in this girl's family growing

up, they always got matching pajamas.

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And so the first year they were married,

her mother-in-law got matching pajamas for

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everyone, and that felt like such a sweet

gesture to her You can share things from

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your own life, not in a, "This is what

I think you should do," but like, "Oh, I

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remember it being so hard, and I remember

this hard thing that we went through."

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A fun aunt relationship isn't just

outward interest, it's getting

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to know you as a real person.

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So I think sharing and confiding

in your daughter-in-law in that way

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can also create deeper connection

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Some of the girls talked about

getting texts from their mother-in-law

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that said, "Good luck today," or,

"Thinking about you," or, "You're sure

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doing a great job at this or this."

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And that those kinds of texts feel like

zero obligation and just pure support.

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They said texts are more useful

than surprise phone calls.

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Sometimes when a phone call comes and

you've got three kids crying, it can

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feel like pressure or overwhelming.

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And so they said planned phone

calls are useful, but surprise

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phone calls can be hard.

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And I know that's gonna vary from person

to person, so you're gonna have to work

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on that in your particular relationship.

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One of the girls said that when she was

first married, her new husband, their

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son, went on an internship far away, and

in that six months, her new mother-in-law

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invited her to dinner once a week.

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And she would go over to dinner at her

mother and father-in-law's house, and

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they'd have dinner together and talk.

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And she got to know them so well,

and they got to know her without

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her new husband, their son.

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And that that was such a meaningful

and grounding experience for them.

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And I thought, "Oh, we really need to

capitalize on those kinds of things.

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When our son's out of town, do we

ever invite our daughter-in-law over?

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Do we invite her to do things without

him sometimes so that we can have time?

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Or even when they're all together,

do we have conversations with her

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alone, or do we only have them

with our son when he is present?"

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Because that takes some intention to spend

time trying to get to know her by herself.

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One of the girls said, "I feel like

my mother-in-law just sees me as

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her son's wife or her grandkids'

mother, that she doesn't actually

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reach out to me as an individual."

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some of you maybe have felt that

way in your own relationship

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with your own mother-in-law.

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So that's something that we can

just notice and be intentional.

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Do I spend time reaching

out to her as an individual?

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We also talked on this, these interviews

about whether or not they felt like

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the mother-in-law should initiate the

relationship or the daughter-in-law,

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and they all wholeheartedly agreed

that both people play a part.

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But they did say, "We feel like

mothers-in-law hold more power because

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of their age, because of the history

they have with their son and that

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power carries some responsibility.

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So I have felt this before sometimes,

like, well, I don't know, maybe

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I'm not cool enough or fun enough

or exciting enough, and that

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causes me to be more insecure.

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And so when I lead with confidence

that, I do have the ability

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to help her feel warm here.

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I have the ability to open the front door

and open my arms and say, "Hello, we're

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so glad that you're here," and make sure

that I have conversations with her, and

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make sure that I'm making time for her.

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So we could say, "Well, she's not trying

very hard," or, "Every time I talk to

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her, she gives me one-word answers."

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There's a lot of reasons that we

can feel fearful and insecure.

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But when we lead with love, when we

lead with genuine interest in another

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person We have more chance of creating

the kind of relationship that we want.

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I think it's also useful to think,

not only do I want to be the fun

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aunt, but let me just consider my

daughter-in-law as the fun niece.

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She's not someone here

to threaten my position.

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She's not trying to take my son away, I

can just think of her as someone that I

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get to enjoy, that I get to learn about,

that I get to have a friendship with.

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one of the girls that I interviewed said,

"Whenever I feel, some tension with my

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mother-in-law, I try to think she cares as

much about my husband as I do, and she's

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been through this and I can trust her."

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And she said, when I extend that

trust to my mother-in-law, it

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actually improves our relationship."

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And I think the reverse is also true.

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I can recognize that my daughter-in-law

loves my son as much as I do, and she's

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just as concerned about his wellbeing as

I am, and I can trust her and trust that

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she is doing her best, and that can help

our relationship thrive instead of seeing

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it as some sort of rivalry Some of these

girls shared that their mother-in-law has

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filled needs that their mother couldn't.

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This fun aunt seat is something that they

didn't know they needed, and it actually

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is very helpful and very encouraging.

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I do think that most of us believe that

we're already trying to be this person.

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But I do think it's useful to recognize

there might be a gap in between what

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I'm trying to do and how it's really

landing with my daughter-in-law.

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So a brave question to ask yourself

is, am I more often the judge,

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the rival, or the fun aunt?

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What do you think she would say?

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What do you think?

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If you look deep into your heart,

are you feeling some rivalry?

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Are you feeling some judgment?

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Or are you truly just trying to

enjoy her and support and love her?

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I think I have some of all those things,

and I'm working at all of those things.

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And I think I'm doing pretty good most

of the time, and sometimes not as good.

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But I do love the idea of delighting in

my daughter-in-law and delighting in all

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the good that she's doing in the world.

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And I would encourage you this week

to think about what is some fun aunt

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thing that I could do this month?

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What's something that I could do

to reach out to my daughter-in-law

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in a really kind and sincere way?

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All right.

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That's all I have for you today.

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Have a good week