Steffen Baldwin lied about his credentials and past experience to enter the animal world through the Union County Humane Society. With lies, deception, and the help of social media, he developed a persona who gained the trust of the animal welfare community. Due to his perceived greatness as the Executive Director of Union County, he was hired to run the Top of Ohio Shelter in Bellefontaine, Ohio. In his short period of employment, he took a promising yet struggling shelter to a point of no return.

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We had theft from ACT Ohio, which was Stefan's nonprofit organization.

2

And from TOPS, which is the top of

Ohio PET Shelter in Logan County.

3

That was one of the theft counts.

4

Dr. G:

5

Hi, and welcome to the

Animal Welfare Junction.

6

This is your host, Dr.

7

G, and our music is written

and produced by Mike Sullivan.

8

This is Season One, State versus

Steffen Baldwin, Episode Five:

9

Taking TOPS to the Bottom.

10

This episode is about how Steffen Baldwin

entered the Top of Ohio Shelter, uh,

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initially as a board member and then

became executive director and everything

12

he did to basically not help the shelter.

13

As always, these episodes contain elements

of animal abuse and domestic violence.

14

So please take care of yourselves

and if you need to take a pause,

15

take a pause, and then come back.

16

This episode is a collection of videos

that I had from while we were working

17

with TOPS, as well as some interviews with

some of the individuals that worked with

18

Steffen at that time, and then some of

the court testimony about TOPS of Ohio.

19

Det. Jim Conroy:

20

In January 1st of 2015, he'd become

the executive director of TOPS Ohio.

21

Which they were paying

him a $40,000 base salary.

22

So now he had income coming in again.

23

But instead of changing his ways, he

just continued to spend the ACT Ohio

24

money on himself while not paying you.

25

So where was that money going?

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It was going to his life expenses.

27

He was buying his, his, his

son gifts, Christmas presents,

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birthday presents, toys.

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He was buying himself video games.

30

All kind of things.

31

His child support payments he was

making, um, he had taken $20,000 out of

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cash with no receipt or no, I, no idea

what happened to the $20,000 he spent.

33

He filled up his gas at Gas Marts.

34

Uh, he spent like $16,000 in gas

stations and gas marts, uh, fast food.

35

He was, uh, somewhere in the

vicinity, I think of like,

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uh, $6,000 on fast food alone.

37

Uh, then he was going to restaurants

and bars and alcohol, um, then dates

38

and his dating life and girlfriends and

hotels and overnight stays and vacations.

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All of this was paid for, uh, you

know, 95% with ACT Ohio money.

40

. Erica Tyler: My name's Erica Tyler.

41

Previously Erica Cooper.

42

I was a kennel technician at Top

of Ohio Pet Shelter under Steffen.

43

He was our interim director for quite

some time, so I worked under him there.

44

Dr. G:

45

So how about you start by letting

the audience know about, um, how you,

46

how you became involved with Tops.

47

Erica Tyler: Oh yeah.

48

So my grandmother served as board

president for quite some time, but, um,

49

from a really young age, like five or

six years old, my grandma and I would

50

volunteer at, you know, the Humane

Society before it was even called Tops.

51

So we always had some level of

involvement at helping out at, at

52

the shelter, rather, you know, she

was serving on the board or not.

53

But when I moved back to Ohio from

Alabama, um, my grandma, I believe

54

she was serving on the board at that

time, but just not as president.

55

Um.

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Or was at least very heavy,

heavily volunteering.

57

She wanted me to go work there as

a kennel tech and, and they were

58

in dire need of staff at the time.

59

So I started there and it was actually

a different director before Steffen.

60

Randy Schmidt: My name is Randy Schmidt.

61

At the end of TOPS, I was

the president of TOPS.

62

But in 2014, uh, a friend who had recently

gone out there, Carol, she said, well,

63

why don't you come out, you know, come

out and, you know, see the dogs and stuff.

64

And so as it got towards winter,

65

they put out a thing that said, you

know, the dogs don't get out much.

66

Uh, it'd be great if anybody can come out.

67

Well, I don't mind getting

carhartts and boots on and

68

take the dogs out in the snow.

69

And, and they seemed to really love it.

70

And it was nice because there were

not many people out there at the time.

71

So I'd try to get 'em out, you

know, about 10, 15 minutes.

72

I had about eight or 10 of 'em

that were my regulars, so to speak.

73

My major was in marketing from college.

74

So I would basically

try to market the dogs.

75

I would come back in, we'd sit in the

lobby for a little bit, you know, the

76

dog just sit next to me and people come

in and go, oh, that's a really nice dog.

77

Well, his dog's available, you know,

so they were, the joke kind of became,

78

after a while, uh, I need Randy to walk

me today 'cause I want to get adopted.

79

So 2014 went, you know, pretty fine

and, like I told, you know, the judge, I

80

said I was just out there for the dogs.

81

I was there to walk the dogs.

82

I love dogs, have dogs and just

to get them out and help out, you

83

know, any way I could out there.

84

Um, but I didn't want anything to

do with board or control because

85

I knew a little bit of the history

in this county and that it's always

86

been kind of a bit of a crap show.

87

So it was like, I don't want

to get into any of that.

88

I'm just here for the dogs.

89

Erica Tyler: Tops has a, a long

history, even before it was Tops of

90

corruption and, and bad management.

91

And it's always had this sort

of gray cloud over its head.

92

Um, the Executive Director that was

serving there had her whole family working

93

there, which, um, I know the board and my

grandmother had concerns of like, nepotism

94

and things, you know, to have your entire

family on the payroll and maybe not having

95

them do quite as much as everyone else.

96

So, uh.

97

Ironically, the day that, uh, that

executive director walked out was

98

the day after Tops was robbed.

99

Um, and the safe got smashed on

the floor and, uh, the current

100

executive director actually threw

me and another employee under the

101

bus and thought that we had done it.

102

I was like, I didn't do that.

103

I was at home in bed, you know?

104

Chris Dewitt: My name is

Christopher Anthony Dewitt.

105

I served as board president and

as a board member with TOPS,

106

roughly a couple of years.

107

Steffen i met originally in Union

County some years before that,

108

working with the shelter

here, walking dogs.

109

And then, his name came up

very often in the dog world.

110

And I got to know Steffen when he came

to serve, uh, and work at TOPS of Ohio.

111

He, uh, initially just

served as a board member.

112

Uh, we asked him, or I did,

I asked Steffen to come on.

113

And, uh, then secondly, when we had people

leave, uh, we needed, uh, a leader, a

114

director, and I asked Steffen to do that.

115

Well, Steffen had, you know,

in the dog world, it's a very

116

close, you know, group of people.

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Uh, he had a good name, um, especially

with the bully breeds and unfortunately

118

where we're at in Logan County, we

have many, many pit bulls and, uh,

119

that's how I knew Steffen He had a

name of being able to, uh, work well

120

with the dogs that were special needs.

121

He had the ability, you know, to

retrain them and so that they could

122

potentially have a, have a home again.

123

We had, um, uh, an implosion at, uh, at

Tops and, uh, we lost approximately five

124

or six staff members that were there.

125

Um, we were reeling and I pretty much

begged Steffen buddy, please help us.

126

And, uh, and that's how he came

about with the, with that position.

127

Randy Schmidt: So as 2015 started,

they had a big board meeting

128

and, uh, there were some issues

with the, the previous hierarchy.

129

And, there was a change made in

that particular board meeting.

130

Not very well done either.

131

So at that point, the Executive

Director was kind of out.

132

Steffen I believe, was

already on the board,

133

well, he was the logical person

that was close by to put in

134

as the Executive Director.

135

Supposedly gonna be for about three

months just to find somebody else.

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Chris Dewitt: Most of the people that

served on the board were just mom and dad.

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Like my wife and I, we love animals.

138

And, uh, we were not savvy with

what it was about, to run, you

139

know, a facility like that.

140

Steffen had that expertise and so we all

leaned on him, you know, for direction.

141

It was a full-time, uh, job.

142

But I understood he had a son and he

and I had talked about having some

143

leeway with, you know, time, uh,

to be able to take care of his son.

144

And of course I said, we can accommodate

that, you know, we will work that out.

145

But it was a full-time job.

146

Randy Schmidt: I didn't know him from Boo.

147

I didn't, you know, I didn't much

care what all went on, uh, heard.

148

It was pretty nasty.

149

And, you know, I would come in

to walk a dog and say, okay,

150

so who's, who's in charge now?

151

Who's doing what, you know.

152

I would hear his name as

now the Executive Director.

153

And everything went along until,

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And at one point in June we

voted to add board members.

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He asked me at that time, you know,

Hey, you know, we need to fill some

156

of these board seats and so forth.

157

All right.

158

You know, I'm thinking, uh, with my

history at, at, at Honda and management

159

and so forth, and so maybe I can help

out a little bit and do something,

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help get things turned around and,

you know, so we filled a number of

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seats and that was in June of 2015.

162

I said I would serve as a Vice President,

but Chris Dewitt you need to be the

163

president 'cause I don't have the time and

I don't have the desire to be president.

164

Erica Tyler: And, uh, ironically

being robbed is what led to Steffen

165

becoming our interim director because

he stood in after that, that Executive

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Director and her family left.

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So it's kind of, it's a

little ironic in hindsight.

168

I was thinking about that

today and I was like, O!

169

Dr. G:

170

Did you have any interaction with Steffen

before he became executive director?

171

Erica Tyler: Um, not in person.

172

Um, I did follow him on social media

because when I'd moved back, my grandma

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was like, there's this guy, you know,

he's helping severe behavioral cases.

174

He's really advocating for pit

bulls and, you know, she, she spoke

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fondly of him, which, you know, I,

I'm always, I took my grandma's word

176

for it, for good reason, you know?

177

Dr. G:

178

How were things when he first started

as executive director at TOPS?

179

Erica Tyler: I, I would

call it optimistic.

180

I mean, we were working on making

a lot of big changes for the

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shelter, a lot of needed changes.

182

There was a lot of remodeling going on.

183

As you might recall,

we had Lowe's come in.

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You put the, we did the cleaner.

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You know, uh, I think our animals were

more taken care of, uh, medically.

186

And, , there was a cleaner facility.

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We remodeled that trailer out there.

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Scott's Lawn came out and volunteered

for a day along with, the

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big grant we got from Lowe's.

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And I think we were all optimistic

that maybe this was the change

191

that our shelter needed after such

a long line of bad management.

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And I think we were all just fooled.

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Randy Schmidt: I got sucked in by the

guy as much as everybody else did.

194

He was, seemed very professional.

195

He seemed very calm, not get excited.

196

Dr. G:

197

When he took over, like before he

took over, he reached out to me and

198

said, Hey, like, well, because we

had been joking about doing like

199

a shelter makeover type thing.

200

Erica Tyler: Right?

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Like Extreme Home Makeover.

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Shelter edition.

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Shelter Edition.

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Dr. G:

205

Exactly.

206

And that's actually I think

what we were calling it, right?

207

And it was like, let's go to shelters

that need help and then help 'em with all

208

the things from structural to management

of the animals and health and adoption

209

and spay neuter and all that stuff.

210

So, so yeah.

211

So it was, I thought that he was doing a

really good job at the beginning because

212

he brought me in and everybody was so

welcoming and so open to the changes.

213

Um, right.

214

And yeah, I mean, we got that cleaning

solution donated for free by the company,

215

which is a really expensive machine, but

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Erica Tyler: it's

217

Dr. G:

218

big

219

everybody thought that they were,

you know, they were doing this for

220

the shelter and yeah that Lowe's

thing, they came in and completely

221

remodeled that shelter to make it into

kind of like a little mini clinic.

222

Erica Tyler: Yeah, yeah.

223

It, that trailer was tailored for doctors,

uh, on your staff to come do intakes.

224

And I helped with some of

those intakes and it was great.

225

You know, that trailer was a big

old piece of crap before we touched

226

it, and it was unusable and it

was mostly used for, for storage.

227

So that was, I mean, that

was an optimistic time.

228

I think we were all really excited.

229

I mean, I know myself, once you

came in, um, I obviously had zero

230

veterinary experience that up until

that point, you know, I learned a lot

231

just from being at the shelter and we

learned a lot of behavioral things and

232

things we could do to help the dogs.

233

So at that point it was good.

234

DrG: I remember when I started going

up there to look at the shelter, uh,

235

one of the first things that he had

me do was look at three dogs that

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had been at the shelter for a really

long time and that were aggressive

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and only a few people could handle.

238

And I wanna say that Chuck was the only

one that could walk at least one of them.

239

Um, because, and they had been

there for at least three years.

240

It was like a really long period of time.

241

And it was kind of like a sad

situation because at that point we're

242

talking about warehousing and the

dogs are not gonna get any better.

243

Right?

244

Like, you have a dog that is, is yes.

245

You know, like losing his

mind inside of this run.

246

Yeah.

247

And it lives in that run all the time.

248

And I can only see one person.

249

Right.

250

And when I went to the shelter,

he pulled me aside and said, Hey,

251

these dogs need, need euthanized.

252

And he explained to me

the reasoning behind it.

253

Right.

254

And I said, absolutely.

255

I completely agree.

256

Like it's, it's not fair to

keep these dogs like this.

257

And then he exactly said, well, but

the staff is really attached to the

258

dogs and I don't think that they

understand about euthanasia, so I

259

need you to talk to them about it.

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And I went in and I pulled everybody

over and I explained everything to

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them, and everybody was fine with it.

262

And, and to a, to an extent, some of

them were, how I say, I don't wanna

263

say happy because they were not happy

that the dogs were being euthanized.

264

But it was that relief that that poor

dog was not gonna be in a kennel.

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Yeah.

266

All the time.

267

And a tiny kennel.

268

We're not talking about a

big kennel in, in a tiny run.

269

Right.

270

And, and I fee and I thought,

they don't have a problem with it.

271

Like they're not, they're

not upset about it.

272

So what was this whole thing about?

273

And, and I realized that it's because

he wanted it to be my decision.

274

Right.

275

Not his decision.

276

Because he can fix any dog.

277

Exactly.

278

So yes,

279

he,

280

DrG: he didn't make that decision.

281

Realistically, they're not his failures.

282

If anything, it's my failures

or my recommendations.

283

Right.

284

And that's something that I

didn't learn until a lot later.

285

Erica Tyler: I actually remember

two of the three dogs names.

286

We had Devlin, which was like a, a

287

a blue nose pit bull.

288

It was a gray pit bull.

289

Um, Moose, he was like a black

and white stocky pit bull.

290

And I'll tell you, I don't remember

the third dog's name, but those two

291

dogs that I mentioned particularly

had to go in particular cages outside.

292

'cause if you put them in, like your

average, like pop-up crate, those dogs

293

would walk that cage, destroy the the

tray inside of it, walk the cage over to

294

another dog and fight it through the cage.

295

I mean, that, that is.

296

I didn't understand quite at

the time, I don't think, or

297

maybe I hadn't thought about it.

298

Had I thought about it, I think

I would've, you know, understood.

299

But when you, you talked to

us about it, it made me think

300

a little bit more about it.

301

And I mean, Devlin had, you know, happy

tail so bad from being in those cement

302

cages and moose did get walked by one

particular volunteer pretty often,

303

but that is no life for a dog to live

for, you know, four to five years.

304

I remember doing it, I remember sitting

with Chuck and us sitting out in the shed

305

and being like, we did the right thing.

306

You know, like I, I remember that day

very clearly, even being so, so long ago.

307

DrG: He would go to these shelters

and like Franklin County Dog Shelter,

308

and even when he got Remi, like

he would go to shelters and accuse

309

them of not working with the dogs

and just wanting to euthanize them.

310

And he would allegedly rescue them.

311

Did he ever work with the dogs at Tops?

312

Randy Schmidt: I never saw him

work with any dogs at Tops.

313

I'd try to get out there at least

twice a week, maybe three days a

314

week, and, you know, and I would get

them out and just play and run and

315

throw snowballs with ' em and stuff.

316

Like, sit under a tree.

317

I've got one where I'm sitting

underneath a, a tree out there

318

with 'em and just let them be dogs.

319

You know, I never, I never saw

him do that with any of the dogs.

320

I saw him observe some dogs, supposedly,

uh, that there was some questions on.

321

But I didn't ever see him

really do anything with, with

322

training, any of them or anything.

323

Everybody kinda acted like he was

this dog whisperer that, you know,

324

knew all about dogs and any pits

and any others that had questions.

325

Um, he's kind of the guy that decides

whether they're retrainable or not.

326

Dr. G:

327

Because that was his jam.

328

His jam was taking a dog that is

deemed unadoptable and aggressive

329

and then rehabilitating it.

330

And I'm, I'm of the big belief

that you start at home, right?

331

You'd have to take care of your home

before you can help somebody else.

332

Mm-hmm.

333

And it doesn't feel like he

was taking care of his home.

334

Erica Tyler: I, uh, I wrote that down too

because he came in talking this big game

335

and there's one particular case, ginger,

I don't know if you remember this dog.

336

He was like a, a red mix of

sorts, but this dog was wild.

337

Um, when Chuck and I would try to get him

out of his run, he had one of those big

338

double runs in the, in one of the kennels.

339

He would like snap at our hands

and we couldn't get him out.

340

But, we begged Steffen like,

please come help us with this dog.

341

Please.

342

We, we really wanna help him.

343

You know, Chuck, and I'll do

whatever you tell us to do,

344

but, you know, we need advice.

345

We don't know what to do.

346

And I don't recall who it was, but

somebody was in town visiting Steffen,

347

another trainer, and he was at the shelter

and he said, you know, guys, he said,

348

you take that, that leash, that slip,

lead and stick a hot dog in the middle.

349

He'll put his, his face through it,

and then you, you know, you loop him.

350

We did that, we did it every day for

probably close three to four months,

351

and by the end of it, we could get, uh,

ginger out, like a, like a gentleman.

352

Um, and then Chuck started taking Ginger

home and I have a photo, I actually just

353

ran across it before our interview of

Ginger standing about three feet from

354

another dog, which he couldn't do, you

know, previously he was just unsocialized

355

and he needed a little guidance.

356

Um, but I was thinking about

those other three dogs.

357

You know, why, why didn't

you a at least try?

358

Instead, he gravitated towards a dog named

Codley, who I know lives in a happy home.

359

He's all gray, muzzled, you know, he's,

he's an old man living his best life and

360

he gravitated towards Codley, who was also

a longtime resident, but couldn't be more

361

dog friendly and friendly towards people.

362

Robyn Haines: Let's talk about

who you brought with you today.

363

Steffen Baldwin: Sure.

364

So this is Codley.

365

Um, and Codley came from

the TOP of Ohio Pet Shelter.

366

That's one of the rural

shelters that both Dr.

367

Gonzalez with the Rascal Animal

Hospital and my organization

368

with ACT Ohio help out.

369

We do a lot across the state,

mostly in rural areas, just trying

370

to help animals wherever we can.

371

And there's a lot of struggling

shelters, very small rural shelters

372

and TOP of Ohio Pet Shelter is one of

them, and Codley just came from there.

373

He actually spent three out of four years.

374

He's four years old.

375

He spent the first three years

376

at the shelter.

377

He's only been out for a short while.

378

He developed some skin problems.

379

The hospital is treating skin problems

and we're working on rehabilitating

380

him and getting him used to being

out of a shelter because three years

381

is a long time to be in a shelter.

382

And, uh, he's doing great so far.

383

Things are a little new

to him, new experiences.

384

First time he is been on tv, of course.

385

Robyn Haines: Right.

386

This is his debut, so

he is a little nervous.

387

He's gotta sniff around, make

sure he knows what's going on.

388

Yeah,

389

Steffen Baldwin: I figured he

spent three quarters of his life

390

basically in a, in a rural shelter,

in a high stress environment.

391

So, uh, he's doing fantastic

for, for that kind of experience.

392

That's just one of the many things that

Rascal Charities does and that we partner

393

with Rascal, with ACT Ohio to do is just

to help animals in need across rural Ohio.

394

Erica Tyler: So he showed off

Codley on his social media.

395

I have a picture of it somewhere, and.

396

Oh, I helped this dog from TOPS.

397

You didn't help that dog

from TOPS do anything.

398

He was already a nice dog.

399

You know, and I, I wonder a lot

of times, you know, now it's so

400

obvious, but, hindsight's 2020.

401

Dr. G:

402

What would you say was, were the first

signs that there was something not okay?

403

Erica Tyler: I.

404

I feel like I had a special in to

knowledge just because grandma was

405

so close to so many board members,

which maybe isn't right, but I, I

406

heard whispers of Steffen acting like

he was working more time than he was.

407

Chris Dewitt: It started out pretty good.

408

Uh, he was showing up, uh, but uh,

shortly, I'd say within a a month's

409

period of time, there were more time away.

410

I was being called at home myself

stating that Steffen's not here.

411

There's no one in, in the

office to run the office.

412

My wife and I, uh, would come

in and, uh, I run the show, uh,

413

basically with, uh, myself and other

board members that were coming in.

414

Melissa Chase: Okay.

415

So you, you started getting

calls from employees.

416

How frequently were you getting

calls to come down to the shelter?

417

Chris Dewitt: Daily.

418

Melissa Chase: Were you there

at the shelter on a daily basis?

419

Chris Dewitt: Yes.

420

Melissa Chase: And when you came to

the shelter, when Steffen wasn't there.

421

You know, how typically

how long were you staying?

422

Chris Dewitt: Uh, staying from,

uh, you know, three to four hours.

423

Uh, sometimes all day

for the entire shift.

424

Melissa Chase: How difficult

was it to get ahold of Steffen

425

when he was not at a facility?

426

Chris Dewitt: Difficult.

427

He would not return calls many times.

428

And then when I would talk to him,

um, it just, he, he would be evasive.

429

He would show up eventually midday and,

uh, you know, be around for a few hours.

430

Sometimes he would stay until closing.

431

Other times he would leave

after a couple hours.

432

He had, um, his own, um,

433

ACT Ohio and, uh, workers had come

to me and told me that he was doing

434

ACT Ohio work while being paid

on our, um, you know, time clock.

435

And, uh, those were things that

we would discuss also, that, you

436

know, when you're here, you know,

please do what we need done.

437

Erica Tyler: So the board

wanted him to start clocking in.

438

And I, as a joke, one day was like, I have

a question for Steffen, like, where is he?

439

They're like, he's supposed to

be here like 45 minutes ago.

440

I'm like, well, he's not.

441

So I went in and grabbed that

poster board of him that says only

442

a punk would hurt a dog or a cat.

443

And I put it in his just chair and

I was like, where are you boss?

444

I've got a question for you.

445

And I sent it like, I think

I posted it on Facebook even.

446

I think it shows up with

my memories time to time.

447

So.

448

I mean, after that initial optimism,

he was there less and less and less.

449

And when he was, he was working on ACT

stuff or he was on the phone and you know,

450

there's a time we were so short staffed,

but Chuck and I were working seven days

451

a week for like three or four months.

452

And he was like, oh, I'll come, I'll

come do the cats in the garage, or you

453

know, I'll come help you clean kennels.

454

'cause you know, Chuck's off or whatever.

455

And if he'd show up, he'd be

on his phone or be in the way.

456

And it's like.

457

Why don't you just stay outta here?

458

You're, you're too much on my way.

459

And I think from that point on,

there really started to be some

460

issues with Steffen, you know,

between him especially and the board.

461

But he was just not there to do his job.

462

James Renner: Today, as I said, I

received more documents, including

463

this, uh, autobiography that

464

"I would make an appearance at work,

tell the staff I had an offsite meeting

465

and obligations, and would go home and

smoke pot while I watched old sci-fi

466

reruns or spent hours passively looking

at porn online and masturbating."

467

Erica Tyler: Steffen had a huge

opportunity to, if he knew so much

468

about animal behavior, to teach us

as a, as a staff, a lot of things.

469

I think he like tried to tell

us how to break up a dog fight.

470

But we had already been doing that

because we had all these, you know,

471

cuckoo for Coco Puff's dogs and he had

a huge opportunity to, to share his

472

knowledge and, and teach us things and

training and, you know, we could send

473

dogs out the door, maybe more dogs that

474

were more well behaved than

they were, but I don't recall

475

him ever teaching me anything.

476

His buddy that was a trainer

taught Chuck and I something.

477

But everything I've learned was from when

you started coming with your staff to the,

478

to the TOPS and then the following five

to six years that I've been at Rascal.

479

And you know, now I serve on

the board and I'm still somewhat

480

involved with, with Rascal things.

481

He, he didn't teach us anything.

482

We, we learned everything from,

from Rascal and zero outta 10 stars.

483

. Zero outta 10.

484

I can't, can't recommend.

485

Dr. G:

486

Yeah.

487

And you know, we started doing, one

of the things that we started doing to

488

be make the shelter more progressive

was doing the spay and neuter.

489

Right.

490

And one of the things that we were doing

was we were getting sponsors for the

491

dogs to get spay and neuter for free.

492

Yep.

493

Which was supposed to bring the shelter

money and get the, the shelter animals

494

spayed and neuter for free, and then bring

the shelter money for like admin fees

495

for hosting us and that kind of stuff.

496

Right?

497

And everything was set and

it's the same setup that we do

498

everywhere throughout the state.

499

And yet it was not working out and I was

being told the shelter's losing money.

500

Erica Tyler: Well, I do remember

I was the one that made the little

501

pictures for the sponsors for the

cork board and the Facebook page.

502

And um, I remember it

being a really good idea.

503

I mean, the idea of working at

Rascal at that point was just

504

like, Ooh, that looks cool.

505

But I remember you guys

coming once a month.

506

I remember the pure chaos in the

shelter 'cause we had dog cages

507

lining that long hallway and, um.

508

I don't remember a ton, obviously

financially, 'cause I wasn't

509

involved in the finances.

510

But I do re remember hearing whispers

of, you know, we're losing money on this.

511

Like, we can't do this as often.

512

And I, I, that's never made sense to me,

especially now that I have the insight

513

of how our, you know, the Rascal clinics

work and you know what the bottom line is

514

as far as what, what we need to be there.

515

And I mean, if you tack admin fee

of $5 on every public dog that comes

516

in, you can get there pretty quick.

517

You know, it's easy.

518

Dr. G:

519

Yeah.

520

And you know, again, it's like the same

setup that we do everywhere that we go.

521

Right?

522

And we're going to areas that, you know,

don't have a lot of resources, that don't

523

have a lot of, a lot of funds, um Right.

524

And people are able to make a

difference in their communities.

525

Somewhere, uh, that, you know, especially

with the beautiful shelter that Tops was

526

and the great location and everything

else, and the need from the community,

527

and not just the need for the community,

but the, how can I say, the sponsorship

528

from the community for these dogs

that needed fixed at the shelter?

529

Right?

530

Like I would remember that I would

post that list of like nine dogs

531

that needed sponsored and it would

be filled out within an hour.

532

Like somebody wanted to

sponsor that dog to get fixed.

533

Erica Tyler: Full, full.

534

And to this day, the need is so

high here that our clinics, when

535

we are able to have them here in

Logan County, fill up in days and.

536

The demand is high.

537

It's still high.

538

I think it'll be high

for a really long time.

539

Um, but yeah, I think we had

the right idea, but I think that

540

maybe he was screwing it up from

the inside as he seems to do.

541

Yeah.

542

Melissa Chase: Would you state

your name for the record, please?

543

Shelby DeLong: Shelby DeLong.

544

Uh, previously Shelby Ramsey.

545

I was hired there as the bookkeeper

when I was finishing college

546

or close to finishing college.

547

I did everything financial based.

548

When I was hired, they had recently

experienced fraudulent activity from the,

549

the previous people that were running it.

550

So they were just trying to sort out

all of the financials in general.

551

Um, and they just needed some help.

552

It wasn't a great financial situation.

553

There was stacks of paper everywhere.

554

I was focused on sorting out and

understanding how much it cost to operate,

555

um, and understand what outstanding

bills they had and outstanding debt,

556

um, to help make everybody aware of

the financial situation and then,

557

um, understand it, what it would

cost for us to continue to operate.

558

Um, when I started sorting that out,

I found that like the gas bill hadn't

559

been paid in a really long time.

560

Um, they were getting

ready to turn it off.

561

So we had to sort that out.

562

During that time they had, I wanna say

the company was called maybe Brentlinger

563

and Associates doing their payroll.

564

And how that worked is they processed

the payroll, um, and then they

565

would withhold the taxes, child

support, things of that nature.

566

So the withholdings

from the, the paychecks.

567

And then we would, we were supposed

to write checks, um, for those

568

bills and send them with like

the slip that they enclosed.

569

Um, and then that wasn't being done, and

that hadn't been done in a long time.

570

Melissa Chase: Would you state

your name for the record, please?

571

Danielle Ramsey: Danielle

572

Melissa Chase: Ramsey.

573

How did you become treasurer

of the organization?

574

Danielle Ramsey: Um, I was the only

one on the board with experience

575

as running the bookkeeper, so

I volunteered for the position.

576

Melissa Chase: I know you were sworn

577

When did you start as a treasurer?

578

Danielle Ramsey: Um, around September.

579

September 15.

580

Melissa Chase: So at that time,

who had control of the money or

581

the finances of the organization?

582

Danielle Ramsey: Um,

Steffen and Chris Dewitt.

583

Melissa Chase: And who, for

you, who was able to sign

584

checks in those types of things?

585

Danielle Ramsey: Steffen and Chris.

586

Melissa Chase: Who had the debit cards?

587

To the best, best of your knowledge?

588

Danielle Ramsey: Steffen and Chris.

589

Melissa Chase: when you started

looking at TOPS financials do you

590

remember what your first discovery was?

591

Danielle Ramsey: Probably

592

Melissa Chase: how far back in

debt they were with their vendors.

593

And then it came to light that they

had not been paying payroll taxes.

594

Danielle Ramsey: Um, I like to

match up when I do my books.

595

I like to match up everything to a

receipt when the expenses come in,

596

um, so that you can cross reference.

597

So we were missing receipts,

yeah, the payroll taxes, how far

598

we were behind with the vendors.

599

And then I wanna say there was an employee

whose child support was not getting paid.

600

So the priority for me when I took over

was just basically caring for the pets.

601

So you have your payroll that you

have to pay, the payroll taxes, and

602

then anything involved with the pets

as far as their day to day expenses.

603

So their shelter, their care, um, food.

604

Det. Jim Conroy:

605

So in my investigation of then going

back and looking at all the Tops

606

records, he started stealing in August.

607

So the, the, the second

bookkeeper didn't catch that one.

608

So he, he had stolen from

them buying Facebook ads.

609

She was on the ball.

610

She actually contacted Facebook

and wanted proof of all these

611

purchases that he was making.

612

'cause then in the end when the

results came back, he had made more.

613

Um, and I think there were five

total purchases for Facebook ads.

614

Um, but she originally not only caught

him on that one before, that emergency

615

meeting, after he resigned, then she

got the records back, like in May,

616

like we're talking five months later

after he resigned that showed that

617

he made all these purchases.

618

None of them were for tops,

all of them were for Act Ohio.

619

Melissa Chase: Do you remember

the situation with Facebook ads?

620

Danielle Ramsey: There were significant

charges that were coming from Facebook.

621

Um, so I did question

Steffen what they were for.

622

And I was told that they were

like to boost posts for different

623

events that the shelter was having.

624

Um, we're a rural community,

so I did not think that the

625

boost should cost that much.

626

So I did reach out to Facebook

directly, um, and I re Facebook sent

627

back, um, screenshots of the ads

that they were not for TOPS of Ohio.

628

Melissa Chase: And who were

they for these Facebook ads?

629

Danielle Ramsey: Uh, one

of 'em was for ACT of Ohio.

630

I don't know if they were all for ACT.

631

I know they were boosting other

events not related to TOPS.

632

Melissa Chase: And how much was the

amount of money that he owed TOPS?

633

Danielle Ramsey: $452 and 68 cents.

634

Det. Jim Conroy:

635

She's there a month and a half and catches

him, you know, making a purchase in

636

Warren Township, Michigan for a GoPro.

637

Like, why, why are you buying

a GoPro video in Michigan?

638

How is that a TOPS?

639

How is that a TOPS item?

640

And then he claimed the, uh,

purchase of the GoPro was that,

641

oh, TOPS his credit card looks

just like ACT Ohio's credit card.

642

So I accidentally used TOPS.

643

And she's like, okay, well you have,

you know, you need to pay it back.

644

And he agrees to pay it back.

645

The purchase he made of the GoPro, he gave

the ACT Ohio card first at the Walmart

646

in Warren, Michigan and was rejected

due to lack of funds and then gave the,

647

uh, Top of Ohio Shelter credit card

and then purchased the GoPro with that.

648

So his stories of making mistake

of the credit card was not true.

649

He knew exactly what he was doing.

650

'cause his credit card for ACT

was getting rejected, then he

651

would use the tops to pay for it.

652

Uh, and none of it was for tops of Ohio.

653

So when we found out that he had, uh,

somehow he had put $1,300 of TOPS money,

654

um, he had charged, uh, a cat to that.

655

It was an ACT, Ohio cat.

656

And he had charged it to TOPS,

but it was an ACT Ohio cat.

657

So they caught it again.

658

They caught him, Hey, this

$1,300, it's not one of our

659

animals, it's an ACT animal.

660

Um, you need to, uh, pay that money back.

661

So this is a complicated story here.

662

Melissa Chase: So I wanna talk

to you also about a $1,300 charge

663

from Rascal Animal Hospital.

664

Danielle Ramsey: So there was a cat

that the shelter got a call on, I

665

remember, that needed medical care

and was taken over to Rascals, and

666

Christina Beery at the time was the,

uh, TOPS office manager, and she

667

denied acceptance of the cat.

668

I'm not sure how that came about.

669

Um, but then all of a sudden I got

an invoice from Rascals for the cat.

670

So Christina brought it to my attention

that she was aware of this cat and that

671

the shelter had denied it and was not

taking responsibility for this cat.

672

Melissa Chase: How much was

the invoice that you got?

673

Danielle Ramsey: It was about $1,300.

674

Melissa Chase: So what did

675

Danielle Ramsey: I confronted it to

Steffen and Steffen said that ACT of

676

Ohio was taking on responsibility of

that cat, and that he would submit

677

for reimbursement for that 1300.

678

Instead of him writing a check

679

the agreement was that he would pay

for the uh, apply $1,300 to the next

680

spay or neuter clinic that came.

681

Det. Jim Conroy:

682

So he says, okay, well I'll

just pay them the $1,300, then

683

you guys don't have to pay her.

684

That'll take care of that.

685

So then he writes your, uh, business,

a check for $1,300 and then writes on

686

it, um, for spay neuter in the notes

section and deposits it into his,

687

to the TOPS account at your place.

688

'Cause you had a TOPS account

as well for the spay and neuter

689

clinics that you were doing.

690

And then he then notifies them that

he paid the $1,300 back to you guys

691

and that, you know, TOPS was good.

692

Couple days later he calls up,

I believe Michelle Scott and

693

says, Hey, I made a mistake.

694

That money should have been put into the

ACT Ohio account, not the TOPS account.

695

So she rerouted that deposit

from TOPS, leaves TOPS thinking

696

they're, they're getting their

$1,300 that they owe you pay.

697

He now reroutes it to his

account in ACT Ohio and then

698

does never does pay TOPS back.

699

Um, so that's how that story ended up.

700

And then you ended up losing

13, that $1,300 as as well.

701

Melissa Chase: Did TOPS get

paid $1,300 from ACT or from Mr.

702

Baldwin?

703

Danielle Ramsey: No.

704

When I called Rascals, they said

that $1,300 credit was applied to

705

ACT of Ohio's account, not TOPS.

706

Det. Jim Conroy:

707

So the early September was like $114

ad for Facebook, And for a GoPro

708

video that he bought in Michigan.

709

So a month goes by,

it's the end of October.

710

He hasn't paid it back

yet, and she gets upset.

711

So she sends this private message,

uh, email out to all of these TOPS

712

members stating, Hey, he's taken money.

713

I, I confronted him with it.

714

He's supposed to give it back.

715

It's been a month.

716

He hasn't paid us back yet.

717

So she called a secret meeting

or an emergency meeting to have

718

him come to the board and explain

these purchases to the board.

719

And then in the, in the, then

there was like offshoots of other

720

private emails between board

members of like, okay, how do we.

721

Can we fire him?

722

Can we vote him out?

723

We say we're talking about

getting voted out or firing

724

him as the Executive Director.

725

So, um, he, that day sends her

a check and pays the money.

726

Um, so that kind of

quells that part of it.

727

So then they have their

meeting that night.

728

They don't put him, they don't

make him explain anything.

729

He paid it back, whatever

they accept his, his reasons.

730

Um, you know, one of the things

that tops is that, you know,

731

there was a freeze on the money.

732

That there was no more spending,

uh, because they had to pay

733

the IRS and that was the number

one goal at that point in time.

734

And you were contacting him

about, Hey, you know, we need

735

paid, we need some on your bill.

736

Can you pay us?

737

Because, you know, you've gotta

meet payroll and, and, you

738

know, owed you a lot of money.

739

And you guys, you know, you needed

some kind of payment and I think Tops

740

owed you like $7,000 and he, at that

time owed you like 16, uh, thousand.

741

And so then he goes in and pays like

several thousand dollars from TOPS

742

even though there was a freeze on the

money was by their, uh, bookkeeper.

743

And it was agreed upon by everybody

that, that no more money would be spent

744

on anything except for essentials for

the animals and paying towards the,

745

uh, bill that they owed the IRS and

that uh, uh, then the attorneys too

746

were also house attorneys, were also

the attorneys for TOPS same attorneys,

747

and he owed them money

as well from ACT Ohio.

748

And he owed them money as well from TOPS.

749

So then he paid them a

few thousand dollars too.

750

Uh, you know, to satisfy you, to satisfy

them that you guys got some payment.

751

I, neither of you could care

less this just needed some

752

payment from one or the other.

753

'cause both places owed you thousands

of dollars, owed the lawyers thousands

754

of dollars, but he then went to TOPS

and he paid out of TOPS account.

755

. So I don't, I wanna be clear that he

didn't pay what TOPS money for what

756

ACT Ohio owed either one of you.

757

He just used that as a way to keep

you guys satisfied, didn't care what

758

problems that caused TOPS, which

caused them problems, which, um,

759

uh, it caused an immediate meeting.

760

Danielle Ramsey: The email below was

sent out on 10/16/15 to you and Chris

761

notifying you the funds for the shelter

were running low, manageable, but low.

762

As at that point in time we were waiting

for the check for the county for 7,000.

763

I indicated that I'm only keeping

necessary accounts current as we needed

764

to make sure we could cover payroll.

765

I'm concerned as to why Rascal units was

paid $3,676 and 12 cents on 10/23/15.

766

I was specifically holding this bill as

we do not have the funds to cover it.

767

Why was this payment not mentioned

at the board meeting when I was

768

talking about paying the back taxes.

769

Unfortunately, taxes get paid prior

to Rascal's or any other vendor.

770

I'm also a bit concerned on

why an additional bill was

771

paid on 10/26/15 to Holland and

Murden for $2,023 and 38 cents.

772

These payments have severely drained

our funds and should not have been paid.

773

Melissa Chase: Did the

emergency board meeting happen?

774

Danielle Ramsey: Mm-hmm.

775

Melissa Chase: What were

the board members' decisions

776

about these two payments?

777

Do you remember?

778

Danielle Ramsey: They

779

Melissa Chase: agreed that they

were not necessary payments.

780

And Mr.

781

Baldwin actually resigned

his position at TOPS correct?

782

Danielle Ramsey: Correct.

783

Dr. G:

784

So one of the things that I wanna

explain is why it was such a big

785

deal for us that TOPS was not on

top of paying us for our bills.

786

So the way that the Rascal

unit works is that the hosting

787

groups, so in this case, tops.

788

Would schedule the appointments

and they would collect the money

789

from the clients for the surgeries

that were being performed.

790

So Tops was basically holding our money

that the clients were paying them.

791

And then on the backside we were

helping fundraise to pay for some of

792

the surgeries of the animals from Tops.

793

So in general, tops should

have been making money.

794

So they're collecting our money.

795

And every single clinic that we travel

to, at the very end of the day, they

796

write us a check for the clinic.

797

And that's in our contract.

798

That's how it works for every

single place that we go to.

799

And that was explained

800

to Tops.

801

I mean, Steffen was aware that that's

802

Dr. G:

803

how this worked.

804

And the first few clinics, this was

working fine, and then all of a sudden

805

it was, oh, they didn't leave a check.

806

Oh, they left a check, but it

didn't have the two signatures.

807

Like there was some.

808

Weird excuse.

809

And it was really upsetting because

we were working at a deficit.

810

And our biggest problem, our biggest

concern has always been payroll.

811

We wanna make sure that the employees

are paid, you know, every, every

812

payroll as they should for the

hard work that they're doing.

813

So they're holding our money that the

people paid for our services, and then

814

they're not giving us our money back.

815

He never explained to us that the board

was refusing to pay us because of the

816

IRS tax, you know, the taxes and the

past due amounts and all of that stuff.

817

So he is telling me that the issue

is that somebody didn't leave

818

a check, somebody didn't sign.

819

That it's all just lack of responsibility,

when in reality there are all these

820

conversations and in the background

they're thinking that we're basically

821

costing them money because they

don't have money to pay us.

822

Yet, we're going there and providing

a service that is coming out of

823

their pocket, and it wasn't, the

clients were paying upfront for the

824

services that we were providing.

825

Erica Tyler: I worked there up until

Steffen's exit and then the very beginning

826

of Barbara Faulkner being our ED.

827

And I think she's the one that

finally, I think we were having

828

Rascal clinics up until Steffen left.

829

Right?

830

Or is that, is that accurate?

831

Mm-hmm.

832

And then Barbara kicked us to the curb.

833

Dr. G:

834

Right.

835

Erica Tyler: Okay.

836

Um, I worked there until about a

month before the shelter closed.

837

They didn't give the

staff very much notice.

838

I think it was, for me, it was

heartbreaking because that was

839

a place I spent a lot of time

since I was a really young age.

840

But I, I, if you would've asked me if I

thought Steffen had the anything to do

841

with us closing, then I would've said no.

842

I think he was a bad manager,

but I don't think it's his fault.

843

But seeing the court documents come

out is just a different level of.

844

Yuck.

845

Randy Schmidt: The hierarchy that was in

there before Steffen, they, they set a

846

lot of things in, in, in the problem mode.

847

And, and again, it, it just made it a

very attractive situation, I think for

848

somebody like Steffen who's a master

manipulator to begin with, you know?

849

Erica Tyler: Um, but we had a big

problem with still housing dogs

850

that didn't need to be adopted out.

851

Um, in that transition between

Steffen and Barbara, there was

852

a lot of turmoil with the board.

853

Randy Schmidt: And, and as turmoil

will have it, it basically, it feeds

854

to that type of a situation for

somebody like him to take advantage of.

855

Come December of 2015, the board meeting,

Chris had stepped down in November as

856

far as president and which then put

me in the position of being president.

857

But that would have to be voted

on in the meeting in December.

858

The meeting in December brought both

factions into the, into the meeting

859

room and all of a sudden everybody

shows up for this board meeting

860

other than just the board people.

861

And it's absolute chaos.

862

I've never been involved

with anything like it.

863

And, uh.

864

Have this chuck from back in the

back of, I'm not afraid of you.

865

I'm not afraid.

866

I'm not asking you to be afraid of me.

867

Wait a minute.

868

Am I here sitting here

threatening you or anything?

869

Uh, it was just absolute chaos.

870

Well, what happens?

871

And I told, uh, officer Conroy about that.

872

I said, Chris Dewitt had already

resigned as of, uh, November, but

873

he wanted to stay on the board.

874

Steffen then steps down

at that December meeting.

875

So both of them were gone.

876

Um, and, and everything's in chaos.

877

I said, I always had my questions

of if the two were together.

878

If they were in cahoots together,

they both knew what was going on.

879

So therefore they both quit

at the exact same time.

880

'cause that's when Chris said, I'm off the

board and Steffen goes, I'm out of here.

881

So both of 'em walk at the exact

same time and in this huge chaos.

882

And I said, it just made me wonder

at times who knew what, who was maybe

883

protecting what or wasn't protecting

what And and again, I told him,

884

you know, until the trial I really

didn't know as we talked, was Steffen

885

basically using Chris as a patsy, which

is what Jim said as it turned out.

886

He said, I said, well, you see

what I, what I told you about?

887

I couldn't really tell

what was happening there.

888

He goes, yeah, I get it.

889

He said, but I think you

had it figured right.

890

I think Steffen being the

smooth talker and everything,

891

basically used Chris as the patsy.

892

Erica Tyler: Steffen had a lot

of turmoil with other employees.

893

Um, I was, I think I might've been in

Alabama or something visiting, but I know

894

Steffen showed up to the shelter and was

acting kind of aggressive and had his, his

895

service weapon, his service weapon, his

service weapon, and, and you know, there's

896

a couple men there that had an issue with

him already, and I think that just went

897

sour.

898

So I think they, they, there's a lot

of turmoil between him and the board.

899

But

900

Randy Schmidt: I was going to, I

think a funeral up in Cleveland,

901

the one day Christina calls me.

902

Steffen evidently had his badge on

when he came in and had his gun.

903

And then there was,

904

DrG: this was the

905

day after the, after the meeting, right?

906

That he, he came in to get his last

paycheck or something like that?

907

Randy Schmidt: I think so.

908

And, and Christina's calling me,

I'm on 71 heading to Cleveland.

909

I'm going, well, you know, I, I

can't, you know, I can you, you

910

know, call the cops if you have to,

you know, do whatever you gotta do.

911

'cause you know, you know, Chuck

unfortunately was somewhat, not always,

912

he might've been act, uh, imbibed

once in a while when he was at work.

913

DrG: The next day, I'm pretty sure it

was the day after that board meeting

914

that he shows up at TOPS and he was

standing up front, dressed up as a humane

915

officer with his gun on his holster.

916

And the people inside of TOPS were

really concerned because they said

917

that he looked like he was crazy.

918

And he texted me and said, oh,

they're making this big deal out of

919

it because I'm wearing my, my weapon.

920

That's part of my uniform

as a humane officer.

921

So he, you know, and yeah, I

had no reason to, to doubt it.

922

Like, I was like, okay, I guess

he's allowed to have a gun, but

923

realistically he was doing that

to intimidate these people, right?

924

Like, kind of like, here I am and I'm here

to get what I want and I'm wearing a gun.

925

So what are you gonna do about it?

926

Det. Jim Conroy:

927

Exactly.

928

Yes.

929

No, I agree with you.

930

'Cause uh, you know, the police report

was made of that incident and he did

931

downplay it to you and to other people.

932

He talked about in his messages, uh,

they're making a big deal, but there

933

was a report filed on him for, he did,

you know, frighten people that day.

934

'cause he did get into a shouting or

screaming match with one of the employees.

935

Uh, so a report was filed on him.

936

He was again contacted by the

Logan County Sheriff Department.

937

Then he came in and he

made a written statement.

938

And in that written statement, and

again, these are the things that we

939

use in charging him, he stated, I

was carrying a firearm as part of my,

940

uh, you know, as part of my duty in,

in uniform, uh, as I'm allowed to,

941

according to Title ix, which was, was

complete bs and none of that's true.

942

He's not entitled to carry anything.

943

But he actually wrote that in his

statement to, uh, Logan County Sheriff's

944

Department about that incident.

945

That, that was why I had my

firearm on, because I was acting,

946

you know, in my position as a

humane agent for Union County.

947

I just came to drop off keys.

948

Um, and that was it.

949

But then I talked to, you know,

interviewed the people from, uh,

950

Logan County and said, Hey, you

know, how often, you know, did

951

he, uh, come with that gun on?

952

Oh yeah.

953

All the time.

954

He came all the time.

955

It wasn't just that day.

956

It was whenever he came,

957

Erica Tyler: I remember I received

a phone call that day from

958

Chuck and he said, Patch, you'll

never guess what just happened.

959

And I'm like, what?

960

You know, I thought maybe a dog

had gotten out and he had to

961

chase it around the shelter.

962

You know, something silly like that.

963

Steffen just showed up here

with his gun, you know?

964

I was like, oh my.

965

He is like, he should have seen it.

966

I said, I wish I did.

967

'cause people bring that up all the time

and they're like, do you remember that?

968

I'm like, I wish I did,

but I wasn't there.

969

But I've heard all about it many times.

970

Especially Chuck.

971

He loves to talk about that.

972

Dr. G:

973

So what happened?

974

So what happened afterwards?

975

Erica Tyler: These dogs that we

had, I remember specifically one

976

was a corso from Indian Lake,

977

and the Dog Warden brought her,

and I don't remember which, but it

978

lived in one of our outside kennels,

but it had like shelter and a dog,

979

dog house, and food and water.

980

And this dog finally got to the point

where you couldn't go in the cage and turn

981

your back on it, or it would lunge at you.

982

And the day I quit, I went out

there, I went to try to feed the dog

983

and I couldn't even open the cage.

984

I walked up front and I said, you know.

985

This dog's a liability.

986

It's gotta go.

987

Like, we, we can't feed it.

988

I said, are you gonna go

back there and feed it?

989

And uh, Barbara at the time said no.

990

And I said, then I quit.

991

And I dropped my keys

on the desk and left.

992

And they also had RTC in there

helping us clean kennels to try to

993

help with the, the short staffed and.

994

I know you're not from Logan County and

people listening might not know, but RTC

995

is a program, um, or a 501c3 organization

we have in Logan County that employs

996

people who are disabled so they can

work and they usually travel with like a

997

buddy, you know, that can help them work.

998

And I was like, this isn't safe for

people that don't know anything about it.

999

Not to mention someone that's

disabled and maybe not strong

00:55:23,032 --> 00:55:24,412

enough to handle some of these dogs.

00:55:25,522 --> 00:55:27,202

That's not your choice to make Erica.

00:55:27,202 --> 00:55:29,782

And I said, well, you know,

what is my choice to make?

00:55:29,782 --> 00:55:30,292

I quit.

00:55:30,922 --> 00:55:34,162

And I looked for, uh, I looked for

work for about two weeks until I

00:55:34,162 --> 00:55:38,272

sent somebody a message over at

Rascal and said, Hey, I need a job.

00:55:38,392 --> 00:55:38,722

Okay.

00:55:38,722 --> 00:55:39,562

Can you come in tomorrow?

00:55:39,682 --> 00:55:39,982

Yep.

00:55:42,322 --> 00:55:43,762

The rest is history, I suppose.

00:55:44,438 --> 00:55:44,439

Dr. G:

00:55:44,439 --> 00:55:48,648

Yeah, and one of the problems that

happens with, you know, union County.

00:55:48,648 --> 00:55:53,268

He had this really long time at Union

County and things were not what they

00:55:53,268 --> 00:55:55,368

seemed to be, but nobody knew that.

00:55:55,548 --> 00:56:01,158

So he goes to top of Ohio and they

take him at his word because he

00:56:01,158 --> 00:56:03,798

spent all this time with Union

County and look at the great things

00:56:03,798 --> 00:56:05,118

that he says that he did there.

00:56:05,388 --> 00:56:10,038

So they take him into

tops and he destroys tops.

00:56:10,338 --> 00:56:12,648

But still nobody really knows about it.

00:56:12,918 --> 00:56:14,598

And this is dangerous because.

00:56:14,943 --> 00:56:18,063

These are not the only places that

he was trying to do things with.

00:56:18,513 --> 00:56:24,453

Um, you know, we're going to talk now to

another director who he kind of tried to

00:56:24,453 --> 00:56:29,403

do something similar and she had no reason

to know otherwise, because, you know,

00:56:29,643 --> 00:56:31,873

he was at Union County, he was at Logan.

00:56:31,893 --> 00:56:37,053

He has this great social media presence,

so he must be doing something right.

00:56:37,651 --> 00:56:41,161

Jenn Thomas: I am Jenn Thomas and I am

the Executive Director at the Ross County

00:56:41,161 --> 00:56:43,501

Humane Society in Chillicothe Ohio.

00:56:44,641 --> 00:56:48,131

DrG: Can you tell us about your

experience, like when you first Steffen,

00:56:48,151 --> 00:56:51,691

like what was the circumstance that

you guys come in contact with him?

00:56:52,186 --> 00:56:56,116

Jenn Thomas: So I started on

the board of directors as a

00:56:56,146 --> 00:56:59,746

00:57:00,166 --> 00:57:04,786

Um, at that point, I was solely

responsible for, as a board member

00:57:05,146 --> 00:57:09,526

finding and making rescue connections,

um, whether that be other shelters

00:57:09,526 --> 00:57:11,266

with rescues, other things.

00:57:11,266 --> 00:57:13,486

And so that was primarily

what I focused on doing.

00:57:14,026 --> 00:57:21,136

Um, I took over as the director in August

00:57:21,136 --> 00:57:25,696

with Steffen and I don't remember who

made that connection for us, but the

00:57:25,696 --> 00:57:28,696

whole idea was that he was going to come

00:57:28,996 --> 00:57:31,996

to our shelter and see

what we had going on.

00:57:31,996 --> 00:57:36,046

And at that time we had a really big

money crisis, meaning we were spending

00:57:36,046 --> 00:57:37,606

way more money than we were making.

00:57:38,086 --> 00:57:44,206

And he presented himself in a way that he

could help us with the dogs that we had,

00:57:44,206 --> 00:57:48,376

which at that time was well over a hundred

dogs in our facility, which is too many.

00:57:48,916 --> 00:57:52,486

Um, and with figuring

out ways to fund things.

00:57:52,486 --> 00:57:56,896

And if I'm not mistaken, I think we

paid him to come and speak to us.

00:57:56,896 --> 00:57:58,036

And it was after hours.

00:57:58,036 --> 00:57:59,386

Several of my board members came.

00:57:59,386 --> 00:58:02,446

There were several members of

the public that came and he

00:58:02,446 --> 00:58:05,056

just, he was very charismatic.

00:58:05,056 --> 00:58:09,136

He just presented himself in a

way that made us think that he

00:58:09,286 --> 00:58:10,756

knew what he was talking about.

00:58:10,756 --> 00:58:14,776

So, um, that was my, like my

really first experience with him.

00:58:14,971 --> 00:58:18,916

I think during that visit, I remember

him walking through the back and we had,

00:58:19,936 --> 00:58:21,796

I don't, there's 50 dogs in the back.

00:58:21,796 --> 00:58:26,206

A lot of dogs, and a lot of them had been

there for a while, probably too long.

00:58:26,836 --> 00:58:30,766

And we were asking him like, do

you think you can help these dogs?

00:58:30,766 --> 00:58:35,656

And like his, his biggest sentiment was

all of these dogs can be helped, but I

00:58:35,656 --> 00:58:37,996

can't help them, but they can be helped.

00:58:37,996 --> 00:58:38,626

And so.

00:58:39,526 --> 00:58:43,576

We kind of were a little starstruck

almost by him, but he really

00:58:43,576 --> 00:58:46,966

didn't give us any like information

about like what we could do.

00:58:47,056 --> 00:58:50,776

The only thing he really

recommended was, um, bingo.

00:58:51,316 --> 00:58:52,726

He was like, you need to do bingo.

00:58:52,726 --> 00:58:54,046

He is like, that's how we fund everything.

00:58:54,046 --> 00:58:54,676

Like do bingo.

00:58:54,676 --> 00:58:58,006

And I, I think he might

have told me Rascal as well.

00:58:58,486 --> 00:59:00,226

Now that I'm thinking about it, he did.

00:59:00,226 --> 00:59:03,226

He was like, you know, you can

charge people twice what Rascal

00:59:03,226 --> 00:59:04,666

charges you and you can make money.

00:59:04,666 --> 00:59:07,906

And then the, you know, you

still get animals fixed.

00:59:07,906 --> 00:59:10,666

And that may be how we got

connected with you, honestly.

00:59:11,206 --> 00:59:13,966

Um, but yeah, he, we were, I.

00:59:14,151 --> 00:59:16,191

You know, I, I was dumb.

00:59:16,431 --> 00:59:17,061

I was new.

00:59:17,061 --> 00:59:19,851

I didn't know I trusted him and

we needed money and we needed

00:59:19,851 --> 00:59:21,111

to figure a way to get out dogs.

00:59:21,111 --> 00:59:25,971

But I didn't realize until shortly after

that some of the things that he was doing

00:59:25,971 --> 00:59:29,301

or maybe suggesting probably wasn't gonna

be in the best interest of the dogs.

00:59:30,796 --> 00:59:35,206

DrG: Yeah, I remember that he had reached

out to me and said that he met with

00:59:35,206 --> 00:59:39,856

you guys and that you were looking into

restarting the spay neuter program because

00:59:39,856 --> 00:59:44,026

we used to go to Ross County before you

got there, and then things were not very

00:59:44,026 --> 00:59:46,726

good and we stopped traveling there.

00:59:47,056 --> 00:59:49,876

Um, and then we, we came back.

00:59:50,236 --> 00:59:54,766

So, so, you know, so he's kind of

like giving you these ideas that are

00:59:55,456 --> 00:59:57,736

not really leading too much anything.

00:59:57,736 --> 01:00:00,256

So did he follow up or

what happened after that?

01:00:00,556 --> 01:00:01,336

Jenn Thomas: Not really.

01:00:01,396 --> 01:00:03,766

Um, he, he didn't really follow up.

01:00:03,846 --> 01:00:07,446

I had reached out to him several times

afterwards about different, difficult

01:00:07,446 --> 01:00:11,543

dogs that we had, and I, I started

following him on social media and

01:00:11,543 --> 01:00:14,873

there were several things on there

that I started, I personally started

01:00:14,873 --> 01:00:16,553

to notice that made me uncomfortable.

01:00:16,913 --> 01:00:20,153

A lot of the, the dogs that he was taking,

he would have pictures of them with his

01:00:20,153 --> 01:00:24,353

kids, like in, in, in his house or on his

porch with all, you know, 14 other dogs.

01:00:24,353 --> 01:00:25,223

And I just was like.

01:00:25,448 --> 01:00:28,028

I just feel like this is not a

great situation, and I didn't

01:00:28,028 --> 01:00:29,468

know any of his training methods.

01:00:29,468 --> 01:00:30,938

He didn't talk to us about that.

01:00:30,938 --> 01:00:35,798

But beyond that, the only other

thing that he really pushed was he,

01:00:36,098 --> 01:00:39,698

he wanted to, I believe he wanted

to bring a camera crew at one point.

01:00:39,698 --> 01:00:43,058

I think he was trying to start a reality

show, and I feel like we were a means

01:00:43,058 --> 01:00:46,493

to that end, like we were this poor

shelter who didn't have any money and

01:00:46,493 --> 01:00:49,373

had all these dogs and a new person

who didn't know what they were doing,

01:00:49,373 --> 01:00:52,433

and he was gonna come in and he was

gonna be the savior, which truthfully,

01:00:52,433 --> 01:00:55,283

if that had happened and it worked

out, I would be very grateful for him.

01:00:55,283 --> 01:00:56,603

But that's definitely not what happened.

01:00:56,603 --> 01:01:00,113

He basically got whatever footage

he was going to get from us, and

01:01:00,113 --> 01:01:01,283

then that was kind of the end of it.

01:01:01,283 --> 01:01:01,343

So.

01:01:03,503 --> 01:01:07,253

DrG: So looking back at everything

that that happened, were you

01:01:07,253 --> 01:01:10,403

surprised when you found out about

the things that he was doing?

01:01:10,883 --> 01:01:15,563

Jenn Thomas: Um, I think I wasn't

as, as engulfed as some other people

01:01:15,563 --> 01:01:20,333

were, so I wasn't quite aware of some

of the, I I'm assuming those are now

01:01:20,903 --> 01:01:24,083

their convicted the money issues.

01:01:24,083 --> 01:01:25,793

I was not aware that those were happening.

01:01:26,303 --> 01:01:29,693

Um, I wasn't aware of, of

some of the things, but like.

01:01:30,908 --> 01:01:35,888

He just was, was saying things that

as I got a little bit into, I realized

01:01:35,888 --> 01:01:37,628

were not possible or were not true.

01:01:37,628 --> 01:01:41,318

Like there you can't rehabilitate

every single dog and like I feel

01:01:41,318 --> 01:01:44,798

like he set that expectation

speaking to my board that like,

01:01:45,623 --> 01:01:49,733

if we just tried a little harder, we

had more people who were like him,

01:01:50,033 --> 01:01:53,393

that we would be doing better than

we were doing, which wasn't the case.

01:01:53,393 --> 01:01:56,813

So I think, you know, I remember

one of my board members saying this

01:01:56,813 --> 01:01:58,583

was a dog that we'd had for a while.

01:01:58,583 --> 01:02:01,283

And, and he, you know, kind of

looked at him like, with like

01:02:01,313 --> 01:02:02,513

pleading like, are you good?

01:02:02,573 --> 01:02:03,623

Can you help this dog?

01:02:03,623 --> 01:02:05,723

And he basically was like, no,

I, there's nothing I can do.

01:02:05,723 --> 01:02:08,003

And I'm like, why are you like,

what are you, why are you here?

01:02:08,063 --> 01:02:09,533

Like, what is it that you want from us?

01:02:09,533 --> 01:02:10,403

We don't have any money.

01:02:10,673 --> 01:02:12,863

We already paid you to

come here and talk to us.

01:02:13,083 --> 01:02:15,573

To tell us that, like get

bingo and go to Rascal.

01:02:15,573 --> 01:02:18,153

Like those were the two main

takeaways that we took from him.

01:02:18,606 --> 01:02:21,456

DrG: I'm assuming overall

you're like happy that it did

01:02:21,456 --> 01:02:23,016

not really work out with him.

01:02:23,016 --> 01:02:27,696

So you guys did not get, you know,

suckered by a lot of the stuff that.

01:02:28,016 --> 01:02:29,126

That he did, right?

01:02:29,156 --> 01:02:29,216

I

01:02:29,216 --> 01:02:31,076

Jenn Thomas: mean, I am, I'm really glad.

01:02:31,076 --> 01:02:33,506

I feel, I feel stupid, honestly.

01:02:33,536 --> 01:02:34,526

Again, I was new.

01:02:34,526 --> 01:02:36,056

I'd never worked in animal welfare.

01:02:36,056 --> 01:02:37,556

I'd never worked in a nonprofit.

01:02:37,556 --> 01:02:40,886

I came from a banking and insurance

background, and I just happened

01:02:40,886 --> 01:02:43,976

to love animals and ended up

being good at what I am doing.

01:02:44,606 --> 01:02:45,056

Um.

01:02:45,941 --> 01:02:49,571

I just, I thought I even, I went to

the bingo, like the courses that you

01:02:49,571 --> 01:02:52,541

have to take, because I thought like,

this man knows what he's talking about.

01:02:52,541 --> 01:02:55,241

Like, look at all the stuff he's

doing and like you look back on it and

01:02:55,241 --> 01:02:57,041

you're like, what were we thinking?

01:02:57,041 --> 01:03:00,881

Like, it, it makes me feel really stupid

and it makes me feel really used because

01:03:00,881 --> 01:03:02,471

like I said, I feel like he used, I.

01:03:03,086 --> 01:03:09,116

At least the situation that we were in

as a jumping off for him to further his

01:03:09,206 --> 01:03:12,776

agenda of, of helping people but not

really helping, if that makes sense.

01:03:12,776 --> 01:03:14,786

So I'm glad we didn't get any further.

01:03:14,786 --> 01:03:18,566

I know there probably are

other shelters that did, but I.

01:03:18,566 --> 01:03:20,076

We just were, I'm like, you know,

there's not anything that he's

01:03:20,076 --> 01:03:24,156

suggesting we do aside, I wanna

say he wanted to come back and he

01:03:24,156 --> 01:03:25,956

wanted us to pay him something else.

01:03:25,956 --> 01:03:28,506

But I, it's been so long ago

that I can't remember, and I

01:03:28,506 --> 01:03:29,616

looked through a lot of my stuff.

01:03:29,616 --> 01:03:33,006

I tried to find some pictures that we

had taken, um, the day he was there.

01:03:33,006 --> 01:03:35,916

But like they, the, the people that

were there treated him like a celebrity.

01:03:35,916 --> 01:03:37,356

Like we thought it was a big deal.

01:03:37,356 --> 01:03:39,366

And now I look at it,

I'm like, we were dumb.

01:03:39,366 --> 01:03:42,966

Like, he just, he really just

fooled a lot of people, I think,

01:03:42,966 --> 01:03:43,986

and especially people who.

01:03:44,936 --> 01:03:49,736

In my situation, I was so desperate to

like make a, a difference because we were

01:03:49,736 --> 01:03:54,206

doing so poorly in, in many aspects and

you know, I have him and I think, wow,

01:03:54,206 --> 01:03:55,436

look at all the great things he is doing.

01:03:55,436 --> 01:03:58,916

He can save all the, all the dogs and

he has all these resources and he really

01:03:58,916 --> 01:04:01,346

didn't have any, he was just a fraud.

01:04:01,976 --> 01:04:01,977

Dr. G:

01:04:01,977 --> 01:04:02,306

Right.

01:04:02,966 --> 01:04:04,676

So what did you learn

about this experience?

01:04:05,346 --> 01:04:06,126

Jenn Thomas: I feel like.

01:04:06,591 --> 01:04:12,111

There are a lot of really great males in

the animal shelter and animal welfare.

01:04:12,171 --> 01:04:16,131

There are a few, the rest of them that

I have met have ended up being very much

01:04:16,131 --> 01:04:19,761

like him, which I won't name names for

anybody, but I feel like sometimes they're

01:04:19,761 --> 01:04:24,321

in it for the wrong reason and I'm just a

lot more cognizant of people who tell me

01:04:24,321 --> 01:04:27,861

like that they can fix everything because

they can't, you can't save every dog.

01:04:27,861 --> 01:04:31,671

And I think somebody in the rescue

community that's touting save them

01:04:31,671 --> 01:04:34,101

all at, you know, at that time

I thought, well, that's great.

01:04:34,101 --> 01:04:35,391

And I'm like, that's really unhealthy.

01:04:35,391 --> 01:04:37,551

It's unhealthy for the staff,

it's unhealthy for the dog.

01:04:37,551 --> 01:04:39,831

It's, it's unhealthy for the

community and it's not realistic.

01:04:39,831 --> 01:04:44,181

So, um, I just look at people a little

bit more carefully when we're choosing to

01:04:44,181 --> 01:04:49,371

work with them or look up to them, just

because I know more now and I don't want.

01:04:50,826 --> 01:04:55,566

I don't want anything that we do to