In Part 2 of this Backstage Money conversation, Jason K Powers continues his discussion with Stevie Rachelle, lead singer of Tuff and founder of Metal Sludge, diving deeper into how musicians actually survive financially over the long haul.

Stevie breaks down the real economics of touring internationally, why getting in front of people often matters more than upfront guarantees, and how merchandise has become a critical revenue stream for working bands. He shares practical insight into selling directly to fans, building relationships at the merch table, and making the most of every opportunity on the road.

The conversation also explores Stevie’s long-running DIY approach through RLS Records, including self-releasing music, manufacturing physical product, distributing to independent record stores, and adapting as formats shifted from CDs to vinyl to streaming and back again. Stevie explains why physical product still matters, how collectors think, and why artists who treat music like a business give themselves a better chance at longevity.

This episode is essential listening for independent musicians, touring artists, and anyone looking to understand the real money mechanics behind a sustainable music career.

This is Part 2 of a two-part conversation. Part 1 focuses on Stevie’s early journey, mindset, and the risks required to get started.

Backstage Money is real-world finance for musicians, where music and money collide through honest conversations with artists and industry professionals who are living it.

Connect with Stevie Rachelle

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/StevieTuff

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100050872071674

Metal Sludge

Website: https://metalsludge.tv/

Tuff

Official website: https://tuffcds.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/StevieRachelle

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you have been traveling over the years and playing, if I'm not

mistaken, more locations now than you did back in the nineties.

Is that

I've played more out of the country in the last 25 years

than I've played in the country.

okay?

Yeah.

all over Europe, of South America, Thailand, Australia.

I, I love the idea of going and seeing these far away places.

And if an opportunity presents itself, I will do whatever I can to make it happen,

you know, and over the, over the years, you know, my first trip to Brazil was

2006, and I, I think by next spring I'll probably be going again and it would,

it's gonna be my, I think, seventh time

Wow.

Seventh or eighth.

going back to Australia next year, that'll be my third time there.

The thing is, a lot of these far away countries and places didn't have those

opportunities to see a lot of these bands.

Especially I say these bands, the smaller bands like myself rhino Bucket, Enuff

Z'Nuff, even Bullet Boys, you know,

these bands didn't always get to play Heaven's Edge.

The they didn't get to play every country and didn't have multiple

platinum records, one after another, after another, after another.

You know, the Skid Rows of the world.

They, they got to tour a lot in Europe and playing with, with Bon Jovi and, and Guns

N Roses and going to these places, but.

With a small band, a brand named like A Tuff, or me, Stevie Rachelle from

Tuff, it's, it's not often that bands at that level play Bangkok, Thailand,

Mm-hmm.

or Lima, Peru, or Curitiba, Brazil.

Um, when the opportunity arises, I try to make it work

Mm-hmm.

foot in the door because I know that it's, it's gonna build

on something in the future

Mm-hmm.

a return.

And

Yeah.

Yeah,

looking at it for, for my, for my sake, you know, to, I guess stop and

smell the roses a little bit, you

yeah, yeah.

Take advantage of it while you can.

Yeah,

let's talk festival, even festivals, not even international travel, but

festivals you know, you do some cruises and, and things like this.

Are, are there, are there things that bands can be eyeing to kind

of, at least get in front of people to, to pursue that opportunity?

you know, this is going back to the money subject, which I was touching on

a couple of weeks ago, and some people think they're, you know, know your worth,

get paid well, my point in a lot of ways is, yeah, know your worth and get paid,

but also know your worth in a reality sense that you are not that important.

Mm-hmm.

Meaning, you know, gene Simmons can get paid whatever he wants.

Yeah.

know, guns n Roses, you know, when you're at the top tier, when you've

sold millions of records, a lot of times you can write your own tickets, so to

Mm-hmm.

but when you're on a lower level, can't come in.

It, it's like a lot of these podcasts I've seen on other.

Platforms, people are talking to these bands like myself dirty Looks,

dangerous Toys, these different bands, McQueen Street that have been

there and had those record deals.

And then a lot of us at this level talk about the things that didn't happen

things that went wrong, or choices that perhaps the producer made, or the

manager or the agent or the record label.

And then the fan base comments and goes, well, why would you do that?

Why'd you put out a ballad first?

Mm-hmm.

you let them make the record cover?

If you didn't like it, why did you let them tell you who you're gonna, how

come you didn't tour with this band?

When you're a rookie and you come into training camp lucky enough to be on the

team, you can't be like, Hey, coach.

Uh, yeah, listen, on that last play, I know you already gave it.

You know, he got the ball six times and you gotta fight.

Well, what about me?

It's just like, dude, you're a freshman.

You just got here.

Take a seat and wait your turn.

If we need you.

We'll let you know.

Yeah.

you are, when you're a rookie, you can't go to the record label and

say we wanna tour with Motley Crue.

We want three videos.

We wanna do the rock one first, then we're gonna do this uptempo,

then we're gonna do the ballad.

Uh, we want this many records in the stores.

Uh, we're only gonna tour on a bus.

Um, we need you, you, you can't make all those decisions.

So my point is, you gotta know your place.

Mm-hmm.

you gotta know your worth, but you also have to know that your worth isn't

really that much worth, you know, without this record label giving us a shot.

At some point, we'd be, we'd just be another local band.

So when you get a chance to go out there and step on the stage,

whether it's in a foreign country or down the street, you also have

to realize that, you know, you're.

We're all in a building process.

Mm-hmm.

EE even Bruce Dickinson was talking in his interview the other day

about his, his his solo project.

He does, you know, side projects and

Mm-hmm.

bands, you know, this guy plays stadiums with Iron Maiden in

front of 60,000 or 80,000 people

Mm-hmm.

And, and him and Steve Harris, the bass player who also has his side

project called British Lion, goes on the monsters of rock cruise and plays

in, you know, plays in venues and shares with, you know, 500 fans there.

Yeah.

Meanwhile, you know, six months earlier they were playing, you know,

Stadium.

Mm-hmm.

in a stadium.

Yep.

So different, different ways to approach it.

You know, depending on where you are on the totem pole, you know, you can

still place yourself in different spots.

I mean, John 5 is another great example.

Here's a guy that.

Came out here from Michigan to play guitar at GIT.

At some point he talked about getting his foot in the door and he said he

went to all these studios and all these companies and said, Hey, whatever your

studio guys are charging, do it for half.

If they're charging 500 bucks a session, I'll do it for two 50.

If they say they can do it in two hours, I'll do it in an hour.

So he was like undercutting everybody to get his foot in the door.

At some point, he gets his foot in the door and he plays with

Roth Rob Zombie, Marilyn Manson.

Now he's in Motley Crew, but he still is going and saying, Hey

yeah, I just did some stadium shows with Motley Crew a year ago.

We just did this residency, but now I'm gonna go play my guitar and me and Richie

Kotzen are gonna go play 500 seat clubs.

Mm-hmm.

You know, which basically the same type of clubs that a, you know, a Tuff would

play or Enuff Z'Nuff or Bullet boys.

Meanwhile, he's also in Motley Crue and

Yep.

playing these huge gigs.

Yes.

He's obviously not getting paid the same thing to play a, a club

date with his guitar in front of 350 people that he gets when he is

playing with Motley Crue in front of

Yeah,

20,000

sure, sure.

Play, play, play to play and take what you can get.

Or you think, you think, you think there's a level because it obviously,

there's a pretty wide span of opinion on should I be playing for free?

Should I be playing for 500 bucks?

Should I be playing for 5,000 bucks?

You know?

Right.

And and from your vantage point, it's get in front of people.

Is that,

Yeah.

Get in front of people and, and then, and then make up the, the

difference on the back end with your brand, you know, meaning,

yeah.

when I go to these shows.

When I travel, I'm usually taking 80% merchandise, and the other 20% is socks

and underwear and some clothing items.

You

Yeah,

don't even take a lot of shirts, meaning shirts that I would wear

because everywhere I go there's usually two to five bands that go,

Hey, you want one of our shirts?

yeah, yeah,

or the local club gives me a couple shirts.

But I go with merchandise.

That is the goal is to not only play and perform and obviously get paid

to do so, but then I will spend as much time as I possibly can, know,

before the show or after the show to meet with fans and sell, sell them

yeah,

one-on-one.

You

yeah, yeah.

some CDs, some vinyl records, hoodies, whatever I have with me.

And they're also doing it with me directly.

Yep, yep.

A little bit more personal that way, I guess, you know?

Let's pivot a little bit and let's talk about.

RLS what was the motive behind starting that?

And then walk me through that.

What

So

monetarily, was there a monetary incentive to doing it in, in the beginning?

well, there always is, you know, you don't, when, when, when I was 10 years

old or eight and I wanted to make a lemonade stand in front of my house,

and I literally went in the kitchen and got a packet of lemonade and sugar

and mixed it in a thing and took 10 dixie cups and sat on the, you know,

on the, the sidewalk outside my front,

Mm-hmm.

of, of my house and had a side that said, lemonade 25 cents.

The idea is to try to sell,

Mm-hmm.

if I sell 10 cups of this lemonade, gonna have $2 and 50 cents

Mm-hmm.

could go to the, the arcade and play 10 games of Miss Pacman,

Yeah.

so,

Yeah.

Yeah.

When I started RLS Records, it was in 94.

We had already been signed a couple different times.

The deals went away Atlantic, and then IRS Grand Slam.

And at some point I just said, we can't wait for another record

label, like let's self-release this.

I'm starting my own record label, it's called RLS Records.

I was mad because of getting dropped again.

I was like, record labels suck.

Yeah,

my label.

I'm gonna call it that.

record.

I literally, yeah, I just started from square one with my cousin.

I said, we need to find a, a place that can do graphics and mastering

and replication for CD and cassette and you gotta get a barcode.

So let's talk to this UPC company.

And it just went headfirst into all of it.

This is spring 94, and at some point within eight or 10

weeks, we had physical product.

You know, the recordings were already done.

And now we have CDs and cassettes, and then I put ads and magazines

like Hit Parader and Faces and Rock Scene and Metal Edge and started

selling through a PO Box where people

Yeah.

check or a money order and add $3 shipping or whatever it was.

And so you gotta spend money to make money.

Yeah.

nobody made the CDs for me or, or paid for everything.

It was like, okay, we have to little by little put our one foot forward.

Mm-hmm.

and so RLS Records over the years that started with one record in 94.

And then the next year I put out another, and then another, and then I

was like, oh, I could do a solo record and then I could put out, you know,

a, a, a compilation of Tuff stuff.

And so now it's 30 some years later, RLS Records has released.

Dozens of titles, not a hundred, but in excess of 50.

know, we've done everything from.

CDs and vinyl.

And back in the day we were doing VHS, you know, with the full colored

Oh yeah.

And then

Yeah.

went to DVD and we made a couple cassettes as well.

But those fell out of favor.

And and then all the, you know, the merch that goes with it, shirts and

Mm-hmm.

so I just said, you know, this is my company.

This is my name.

And you know, full disclosure, RLS Records is my garage.

You

Yeah.

Yeah.

when I did that, it's like when I was 18 years old and I was buying records,

whether it was Oingo Boingo, Motley Crew, you know, squeeze or wasp.

I didn't look at the back and go, well, they're on Atlantic Records, so they must,

they must be great 'cause it's a major

Mm-hmm.

this one says Megaforce.

Oh, I heard that's an indie record.

I don't wanna buy this.

Right.

And I didn't know that Megaforce was.

I didn't know if Megaforce or Geffen or Atlantic or Warner Brothers, none of em.

All I knew is that was the name of the record

Mm-hmm.

you know, in the corner, the little logo, you know.

So I said to myself, if somebody looks at one of my records and buys it RLS Records,

not looking at it and going, I'll bet you this is coming outta someone's garage.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

That's right.

They're like, wow.

RLS Records And Tuff is in California.

Like they, you know, this must be like a mirrored skyscraper on Sunset

That's right.

Stevie sitting in some

Yes.

with, you know, David Geffen and Larry Flint, and they're talking

about all their investments and

Right.

none of that.

You

Yeah.

it's merely a couple letters on a little logo, but reality is all

of that stuff has been my garage.

Or in a studio warehouse for

Yeah.

30 years.

Yeah.

Yeah.

my garage does not, can't hold a car

Yeah.

it's literally shelves and stacks of all the records I've put out all over the,

Yep.

Yep.

and

and, and I think the, the first time we start talking was you

were actually cleaning your garage at that time, or organizing.

Yeah.

So,

Rearranging.

But, so yeah, RLS Records is, it's, it's, you know, my vehicle

to put out these records.

It's

yeah.

own little brand.

It's got its own little name.

And then I, I go to, I literally go to stores.

I started doing this again in the last couple years where I contact stores and

say, Hey, you know, 'cause now music stores have kind of come full circle.

There was a lot of them in the eighties and nineties, and a lot of them went away.

But now some of the mom and pop ones are popping up

Mm-hmm.

can I put some of my records in your store?

Yep.

Here's what I have.

We can do a wholesale deal, CDs, vinyl, I could sign stuff.

And so I literally, I do, I distribute to independent stores.

in touch with me.

They said, Hey, we want five of these and three of these and six of those.

And,

Yep.

you know, they send me a payment, I ship 'em the stuff, and now it's in the store.

Yep.

Yep.

So,

and the fan, the fan doesn't know, most part, when they pick that up, you know

what they're buying from RLS Records or what they're buying from Motley Records

yeah.

or Electra or Warner Brothers.

Right.

not, they're not judging.

Mm-hmm.

They,

Mm-hmm.

band.

They like the pictures, they

That's right.

the sounds, and all the details that go with

That's right.

So a, a little bit of, so talking about records specifically, you know, vinyl

records that's really made a comeback.

Like you, you've seen, you've seen, you started out with the records

into cassettes and then CDs and into streaming and, you know, CDs kind of

has lingered for a really long time.

Yep.

And then, you know, 2023 vinyls, outsold CDs

Yep.

did again last year and I, I'm sure it will again this year.

So you start seeing all these pop up, you know, vinyl stores, record stores.

Do you think there's that, I mean, how important do you think it is

if a band can put out physical music CDs vinyls also you know,

the,

compared to streaming.

yeah, the thing, the thing that, the thing that's happened in the

last five to 10 years is that the younger generations of people,

this is new to them, meaning, you know.

20 years ago, not 20, let's say 15.

Yeah, 15, 20 years ago, like between 2005 and 2010 when Spotify and

iTunes and Napster and all these digital platforms came around.

And then people have their phone or you know, this, uh, set of, you know,

with earbuds, with this little, this little, almost like the size of a

credit card kind of device that could have 10,000 songs on it, you know,

Yep.

they didn't grow up with looking at a record, like, you know, up,

you know, this or opening up.

You know, a, a record like

Pulling up your records.

pulling out the insert and reading,

yeah,

of these, this is the studio, this is who produced it, this is who

Yeah.

this is who mastered it.

That was always my

the

favorite part of getting an album at the beginning is like exploring all

the this behind the scenes stuff.

so all of that stuff.

For a younger generation, that's kind of what caused a little bit of

a frenzy where suddenly, not just the classic stuff, but when the, you

know, when the vinyl craze started happening again, there was a company

I used to use in the valley out here called Rainbow about 10, 15 years ago.

I got our first vinyl done and I went there and they showed

me how the process worked.

And that day there was like.

Bob Seger Silver Bullet Band and the Silver Bullet Band, you know, those

were coming off of press, you know, Pearl Jams debut record Young's catalog,

Yeah.

all these classic records from the seventies and eighties and,

and the nineties were being re remanufactured by the labels.

And so, little by little, I think the fans, the younger people,

meaning people that are under 30 now,

Mm-hmm.

when they were 15 or 20, they never grew up having a record

player or grew up buying magazines or grew up with CDs or albums,

Yeah.

they call it physical product.

Yeah.

even like we grew up,

Mm-hmm.

meaning kids in the seventies and eighties and even into the

nineties, we're looking at magazines.

We're putting in a CD or a cassette

Mm-hmm.

Those were physical items, all that went away.

So a kid in 2007 or 10 was like, well, I'm on MySpace.

Here's my cell phone.

Yeah.

a, here's a jpeg, a promo flyer I can send you or tag you.

Oh, and here's all my music.

You know, just push this button and you can listen to it on your

phone or with your headset, or you can send it through email.

So when, when the physical products started making its rounds again,

Mm-hmm.

some of the younger bands that were coming out I'll use a wrapper for instance.

A lot of, uh, like the six nine guy, when he came out,

all his stuff was just online.

But at some point, you know, him, Taylor Swift, bad Baby, some of these pop rap

rock stars rappers from, from the modern.

Era, the last

Yeah.

years, they only came out with stuff that was digitally available.

And then at some point I started to see when they, they launched their stuff.

They, they were selling special edition

Mm-hmm.

or special edition deluxe Cas, uh, deluxe cd.

And even some have put out cassettes

Yep.

the, their fan base went, oh my God, what is this?

Yeah.

And that also helps you sell,

Mm-hmm.

the diehard fan goes, gonna download it, I'm gonna buy the record.

Yeah.

and there's three variants.

There's a red, a white,

Yeah.

vinyl.

I, I love the bands.

I'm gonna buy all three of the

Collect all three.

Yeah.

buy this, the cd.

And then there's the, you know, going back to our, our era of, of, of fans

from the eighties and nineties, they'd be like, I gotta get the Japanese

release because it's got a bonus track on

Yeah.

That's right.

That's right.

a

That's right.

on the

That,

so then you'd send away for it and it's got the Abby

mm-hmm.

all the lyrics and stuff are

Mm-hmm.

And so fan might like a release and end up buying it 10 times.

That's probably why Kiss and Aerosmith and AC DC and Van Halen and the Rolling

Mm-hmm.

That's why those guys are so rich.

Yeah.

some of those guys were releasing, you know, albums in the seventies and

Yeah.

eight tracks and then cassettes,

right.

CDs,

right.

and the vinyl went away and the cassettes went away, and

clearly eight tracks went away.

But then now it's kind of come full circle where vinyl's coming

out again and they're reissuing it

Mm-hmm.

the variance.

And, hey, uh, deluxe,

Yeah.

gatefold.

Never

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

before.

Yeah's, right?

alternative studio mix, you know.

I mean, I bought, I've bought vinyls.

From merch tables this year even, you know, just going, because it's

there, it's new, you know, I like the old original stuff, but, you know,

I'll geek out on, you know, first presses and, and things like this too.

Yep.

But if I find a really, really old one, uh, I may buy a

newer one so I can play it.

'cause I don't wanna mess with the old, you know, if it's like on

its last leg, that kind of thing.

And it's fun.

It was so fun.

Even, you know, you talk about exploring the album,

exploring the inserts and stuff.

When I, um, got my record player set up a couple years ago, my now 10-year-old, we

popped in, I popped in a John Denver album and, and put it on in the living room.

And that kid had this insert out and sat there and read

along through the entire album.

And it took me straight back to when I was a kid doing that same thing, you know,

and just sit there and you're glued to it.

The first time you hear it, you're going through it, you're just locked

in, you're reading the lyrics, you're reading every nook and

cranny of it and, and exploring it.

And he was, he was hooked, man.

There was no conversing with him during that time and it was just really

fun to see and really took me back.

Yeah, and like with Tuff, we signed to Atlantic.

Record came out on CD in America, and it came out on CD and vinyl in

Europe, but it was never released on vinyl in the US because by 90 91 they

discontinued making vinyl records.

So I signed a licensing deal with Rhino Entertainment, Warner Music Group in 2020.

To release what comes around, goes around reissue it for the 30th anniversary,

Okay.

And so when I did that and I got the rights, not only did I

reissue it on CD and vinyl, but we upgraded, I made the vinyl, uh,

Got the

uh, gatefold,

gate full, final, and Oh yeah.

Love it.

and then Fisk first, which was only released on CD in 94.

then reissued this for its

Yeah.

or I should say its 30th anniversary in 2024 on vinyl as well.

And the, the vital thing is it's definitely picked

up over the last 10 years.

I mean, I, I, I do have a regret that I didn't start to do more sooner

Mm-hmm.

it's, it's, it's an expensive process as well, but.

It's just like anything, you, you gotta put your money where your mouth

Mm-hmm.

you know, you gotta feed the fire, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So kind of, bringing it down in conversation, what do you think about, or

what advice would you give for, for guys up and coming today about just that, the

money side of things we're talking about?

How do we get artists to understand, I guess, the importance of maybe planning,

you know, if we want to, if we want to go into financial planning of some sort, you

know, planning for what's down the road, planning for what that next, whatever.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm, I, I'm definitely not a financial advisor, you

sure.

Um, and as far as how anybody, you know, what I've, what I've realized

in, in this industry, especially for guys that are my age, I'm 59,

I'll be 60 in a few months, so.

the years, you know, when I was in my twenties and I'm getting signed to

Atlantic and some buddies are signed to Capital and these guys were signed

to Geffen and these guys were signed to, you know, Polygram or whatever.

Everybody's is different, but at some point you've all gotta

figure it out to say, you know, what am I gonna do to survive?

Mm-hmm.

and being in a band is not always, it's, it's not always a money ticket, obviously.

Right?

Um, and even then, you know, we, we, we had random day jobs and

Mm-hmm.

always looking for an investor, so to speak,

Yeah.

you know, somebody comes along and says, Hey, we'll we'll spend 20 grand on you,

or 50 or whatever the, the number is.

It, it's there.

That's, there's only so much money for so long.

so at some point you have to sustain yourself to say, what

can I do to, to, to do this music but still make a living off it

Yeah.

and do I have to, need to do, to do something else on the

Mm-hmm.

There's a lot of guys that.

Even had huge success and have sold a lot of records and made a lot of money,

and they're still like full on committed.

Dickenson and, and Steve Harris, two guys I just mentioned from Iron

Maiden, they're playing this huge band.

They've probably sitting on, you know, a hundred million dollars each,

Yeah.

they're still playing with side projects and

Mm-hmm.

new music.

Of those bands are gonna go gold or platinum.

They're not playing massive shows.

Bret Michaels is another great example.

Brett has had massive success with Poison.

At some point he pivoted and did some of these reality TV shows,

which people goofed at, you know, and

Mm-hmm.

Rock of Love and whatever.

But little by little, he has continued to put his foot forward every day.

Mm-hmm.

guy goes on social media.

I'm on the beach, I'm hiking,

Yep.

out here, you know, on the lake.

I'm going fishing, I'm throwing the football.

Hey, I'm wishing

Mm-hmm.

uh, a great weekend.

Oh, and by the way, I'm playing this show tonight.

Yeah.

is a great example.

Uh, you know, there's four guys in Poison.

Brett has been in social media the whole time,

Yeah,

is right there for everybody doing shows.

As a solo artist, you know, charities, thi things.

He's, he's always involved.

yeah.

On the other hand, CC and Bobby, they, they don't really

have any imprint on social

Mm-hmm.

Dall, I don't think is a, is on any

Yeah.

I haven't seen him on there.

yeah, cc's very limited.

Rikki goes out, does a few things, couple side projects, but Bret

is a great example of somebody that's had just a ton of success.

He's clearly financially set,

Mm-hmm.

but he's still out there.

Mm-hmm.

He still gets up, he does these posts.

You wake up, it's on Instagram

Mm-hmm.

in the morning

Yeah.

and he's, you know, sitting there in his, you know, in, in an SUV

or outside a venue or in his

Yeah.

getting on a plane and he's out there, you know, going after it.

Sharing of life.

Yeah.

you, you gotta, you gotta respect that there's, it's, it's, it's not

easy to continue to get up there.

It's, it's, with sports.

LeBron James, you know, was entering his, what, 23rd year

in the NBA, know, Aaron Rogers

Mm-hmm.

Pittsburgh Steelers, you know, 20 some years.

He's 40 years old.

Joe Flacco, another quarterback who's playing with Cincinnati

now, 40 some years old.

guys were doing this when some of the team players on the

team were literally in diapers.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sure.

they, they have success.

They have money, but they still wanna win.

They still

Yeah,

they still wanna compete,

yeah.

to put, put themselves out

Yeah.

I have a lot of respect for that.

And to anybody that's trying to succeed in life

Mm-hmm.

whether you're gonna do sports or entertainment or music, or

if you're gonna open up a hotdog stand, you've gotta commit

Yeah.

gotta put in the work, you know?

Right, right.

Yeah, that's, so, I mean, like Bret Bret's a really good business-minded man.

Like he's, he's, he's great musician and good at business, and I think, I

think there's something to be said for, for any musician out there, if you can

improve your, your business skills,

yep.

you know, and, and, because there's a lot of great musicians and bad

business people, and that's what hinders in a lot of ways, you know,

Right.

and finding a way, how can you, how, how can I improve my

business mindedness, I guess,

I

you know?

another guy, Joe Rogan's got a huge, he's got huge success with his podcast.

got huge success being with the UFC for 25 years or whatever it is.

Mm-hmm.

got success with his comedy.

You know, I mean, here's a guy that has tons of money,

but he still doing his comedy.

He still does his podcast, you know, I mean, putting out content

literally multiple times per week.

Mm-hmm.

going to these fights and announcing them and, and, and being a, a play-by-play

analyst for, for the UFC and,

Right?

MMA related stuff.

The guy, and, you know, and that guy's a go-getter.

He's also, Hey, I'm getting up, I'm at the gym.

I'm sitting in this ice bath.

I'm doing this

Yeah.

I'm taking this supplement.

You know,

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

success.

it, it, it doesn't, doesn't just show up at your door, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You, you gotta continue to go after it.

And not everybody gets to have the success that Joe Rogan has, or

Sure.

or Bret Michaels.

So there's a lot of us that are on a much, much lower, lower level.

But I look at it similarly where I, you know, I gotta do my Sludge, I

gotta do Tuff, I gotta do this band, I gotta promote these records and

Yep.

come up with an idea how to

Yep.

re reissue a remaster of, of a record from 20 or 30 years

Yeah.

it's, it's a lot of work.

Yeah, yeah.

All right.

Well, tell me what's next for you?

What do you got, what do you got in the pipeline?

What do you got coming up?

How, how, how can people find you and, and get plugged into stuff you got going on?

Well, they can always go to metalsludge.com.

Also, metalsludge.tv.

That's my, my music website has been online since 98 and I do

updates on the industry, but I share a lot of my own stuff there.

Mm-hmm.

Social media, I'm on all the platforms.

Most of 'em are under Stevie Rachelle or Stevie Tuff on X and

Instagram tuffcds.com is a website.

There's some information there.

And there's a store at both the Tuff site and the Sludge site,

which is official RLS Record store.

There's a ton of stuff, whether it's CDs, vinyl, tour swag from different

countries, different tours promotional items and all, all things related.

in 2026 Tuff is gonna release American Hair Metal.

American Hair Metal is going to be celebrating the 25th anniversary of the

release of the song American Hairband,

Yep.

out in the early 20, uh, 2001.

So

Mm-hmm.

will be the 25th anniversary.

That record has been mastered and the artwork is underway.

There will be a digital release, a deluxe cd, and a vinyl with a

couple of colors for the variance.

And

Cool.

there'll be some shows.

Um, looks like I'm gonna be going to Australia in the spring to do some dates.

Got a couple things coming up in the Midwest.

We're Tuff's gonna be on the monsters of Rock Cruise, which is in April.

April 12th through the 17th.

Yeah.

And so.

That's, that's the, the first quarter of the year, you know, this

Yep.

uh, re-release of American Hairband and the record will

be called American Hair Metal.

And I specifically I, I love both of those terms even though I

Yeah.

people they don't like 'em.

So I will

Ride it.

with, with our music.

Yes.

um, the cruises are always fun and

That's fun.

I'm sure there'll be some other shows popping up at some point too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's just first quarter for the most part, you know?

Right.

Yeah.

So you're gonna, you got some activity.

You, you a busy man.

a good chance I'll be in Brazil before summer as well, maybe

Cool.

after the cruise,

Cool.

coordinate that right now.

Yeah, man.

So, so every show we wrap with what we call final riffs.

That's kind of our lightning round.

Short questions, quick answers, snapshots to kind of take us home.

Yep.

Uh, so let's wrap with that.

I got a handful, I'm gonna fire off to you and let's dig in.

Let's dig in.

All right.

if a, if a band has 5,000 bucks.

Where should they put their money?

Well, it's, it's gonna be one of two things.

It's either gonna be in, uh, recording new music or manufacturing, some kind

of merchandise, something that's gonna help you, you know, the merchandise

and the music at some point would, you know, you wanna be able to sell it,

Yeah.

know, so, you know, today's world with five grand, you could, you could,

could home record an EP with four or five songs and, and replicate some

CDs or some type of promotional items to, to sell and hopefully make some

of your money back or, or merchandise.

Like I said, that

Cool.

advice.

All right.

All right.

More personal ones.

First.

LA Club.

Tuff headlined

The first club we headlined was the Whiskey A Go-Go, November 6th, 1987,

and we got paid $500 and the promoter was Razzmatazz Productions headed up

by Janie Liszewski and Janie at some point became Mrs. Eddie Van Halen.

That was Eddie's

That's right.

when he passed away.

That's right.

a, a, a friend of ours, sweetheart of a girl, and she was the promoter

on our first headlining show in 87.

So,

fun.

Cool, cool

for you.

that is.

All right.

One Tuff song you never get tired of playing and why.

Uh, Good Guys Wear Black.

I mean, there, a lot of my like to play, but that's kind of a signature

song that we wrote and like.

Probably late 88 by early 89 we had demoed it and it's kind

of, been a signature for us.

You know,

Yeah.

Yeah.

All right.

Coffee, tea, or something stronger before the show.

coffee,

Coffee.

right now.

Yes.

before the show, you know, I'll usually have some hot coffee or tea

to kind of get me a little alert,

Mm-hmm.

I would pick coffee probably before tea.

Yep.

All right.

And favorite location to play that isn't on the usual list?

Maybe what's your favorite place kind of place to play.

I mean, I, I loved, I love playing in Brazil.

I've been there a

Mm-hmm.

times.

I've been to Thailand a few times.

Always love It's not always just 'cause of the fans, but just going to these far

away places, you know, I've been to a lot of places in Europe, in like 30 countries

Mm-hmm.

so.

Places outside of the norm is always interesting.

You know,

Yeah.

says, Hey, do you want to come and play in Lima, Peru?

Which I did a few years ago.

I loved

Mm-hmm.

know, so,

All right.

Broncos or Packers?

of course the Packers.

Packers.

I hear you're a Packers fan.

Yeah, from, from Wisconsin.

So born and raised a Packer

That's it.

There you go.

All right.

Final question.

one thing you'd do different today for the music and the band

than you did in the nineties.

I guess just make more music, you know?

I mean, a lot of times bands were waiting to get signed, you know, we're

waiting for the record deal and waiting for this tour to happen and waiting for

somebody else to make a decision for us.

And there was plenty of times when we just did things on our own, but

there was times when we did wait, you

Yeah.

I would just say

the waiting game is the, it's Tom Petty.

The waiting is the hardest part,

Mm-hmm.

know?

And, and that's a lot of, you know, hurry up and wait.

That's the industry in general.

We're, we're doing this movie, but we're not gonna do it till next year because the

producer's busy with a different movie.

And the same thing happened with bands.

Hey, we're gonna make this record and we're signed, but the guy we wanna

use is currently producing, you know?

Uh.

X bands record.

So we're gonna wait six months for him to be available.

And in that waiting period, then the guy gets an offer to do another bigger band.

So he says, sorry, I can't do your record now.

You

Mm-hmm.

months for nothing.

Yeah.

at the end, waiting is procrastinating and it's will be the death of you.

In the

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

you gotta go.

Go get it.

Mm-hmm.

it, go after it, and don't wait.

That's great.

That's great.

you, Jason.

All right, Stevie, thanks for being so generous with us with all this real

Tuff stuff, you know, how the money works and, and just your side of it.

That was great, and thanks for jumping in here last minute too.

It's fun to have you on here.

And this, I have so many more questions, so maybe we'll get

another one lined up down the road.

All right, for everyone else listening, if you want a steadier way to fund

your music, grab my free ebook.

A Musician's Guide to Infinite Banking at 1024wealth.com/music lays out

how to keep your money accessible, keep growth compounding smooth.

The feast are famine and self-fund releases, tours, and gears over time,

it's just another financial way.

If you're ready to talk through the strategy that works for you, book a

call with me and let's find something that works for you in your world.

Meanwhile, subscribe on your favorite podcast app.

Share this with one musician who needs to hear it, and I'll see you next time.

Until then, keep your money working and your music moving.

Thank you very much Jason.