109 | Coach Pamela Mitchell | What The Queen of Reinvention Knows
Episode 10921st September 2023 • My Fourth Act Podcast • Achim Nowak
00:00:00 00:38:01

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Called ‘The Queen of Reinvention” by Fortune magazine, former entertainment exec-turned-coach Pamela Mitchell (aka ‘Coach Pamela’) is the nation’s premier expert in reinvention and founder and CEO of The Reinvention Institute.

She is the author of The 10 Laws of Career Reinvention: Essential Survival Skills for Any Economy (Penguin), a Harvard Business Review Top Shelf Recommended Pick. Her audiobooks Mastering the Skill of Reinvention and Pivot and Pursue It have been Audible Original top 10 bestsellers.

Coach Pamela has appeared on CBS, CNN, NPR, MSNBC, and the Today Show, and been profiled and quoted in top publications including The New York Times, Businessweek, TIME, Men’s Health, and Real Simple.

www.planetreinvention.com

Transcripts

Coach Pamela Mitchell:

I had a moment when I woke up. And I'm like, where am I? Because of course, you know, I was at all hotel different countries, different cities woke up to like, oh my god, where am I? And I realized I was at home in my own bed. And I didn't even know it. I hadn't even recognized I just, I didn't know that I was where I was.

Achim Nowak:

Hey, this is Achim Nowak, executive coach and host of the MY FOURTH ACT podcast. If life is a FIVE ACT play, how will you spend your FOURTH ACT I have conversations with exceptional humans who have created bold and unexpected FOURTH ACTS, listen, and to be inspired. And please rate us and subscribe on whatever platform you are listening on. Let's get started. I am absolutely delighted to welcome Pamela Mitchell to the MY FOURTH ACT podcast. Pamela Mitchell who is known as coach Pamela is a former entertainment executive turned reinvention coach. Fortune Magazine has dubbed Pamela the queen of reinvention. She is a sought after brand ambassador and reinvention expert who has been featured in all major media. Pamela's book, the 10 laws of career reinvention was a top tier business book selection by Harvard Business Review. Pamela has since released two audible originals. Each a top 10 Audible, best seller, titled mastering the skill of reinvention, and pivot and pursue it. Pamela's firm the reinvention Institute is celebrating its 20 year anniversary this year. And one of the many things I appreciate about Pamela is that she she grabbed the word reinvention before that was a buzz worthy, or trendy thing to do. Welcome, Pamela.

Coach Pamela Mitchell:

Hello, Joaquin. Thank you so much for having me today.

Achim Nowak:

I'm so excited to speak with you. And I just want to say in full disclosure, Pamela and I both live in South Florida. So we occasionally criss cross paths and low social lives. And Pamela is somebody whose work and career I admire greatly. When I'm sure that when you went to school, you a young girl, you're thinking about being a reinvention coach, so thinking about being when you know, because people ask us, What do you want to be when you grow up?

Coach Pamela Mitchell:

Oh, gosh, you know, when I was a little girl, and I would say like five, probably until like eight or nine or 10 I wanted to be a librarian. That was my dream, the idea of being surrounded by books, I just loved books. And I would go to the library. And the librarians were like the coolest people I knew, because I could just talk to them about like what I was interested in, and they would make recommendations. And I could just enter all these different worlds through books. So I thought that that would be what I wanted to do.

Achim Nowak:

And what I love about this, as I related to your current life books also stimulate thinking that is the Generate possibility for us. And the best books get us in an emotional place where things don't matter. And we care. And I know you will do all of that with your own work right now, even though the shape is completely different. Right?

Coach Pamela Mitchell:

Exactly. It's about opening people's minds, it's about opening their worlds into your point opening possibility. I mean, that's what books did for me as a little girl in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, who like really didn't have any kind of examples of a world bigger than the world I lived in, and was not really talked about or rewarded to leave that world. You know, everybody kind of stayed in that kind of little town. Not it wasn't a little town, it's a city, but it really kind of stayed there. And so this idea that I had, which was like very kind of quiet, which was to somehow do something different and not be there. You know, books were where I could indulge in that and see that it was possible because the world was not telling me it was possible.

Achim Nowak:

Because this podcast is about multiple acts and you had you're very well schooled, you had one professional act and then you've turned it all upside down. So I like to go to your very impressive initial corporate career you worked in are really well known media entities. If I'm going to drop some names. You had a senior role at Playboy, your discovery channel. Those are just impressive well known brands. And in my experience as always, the cool mom Months, there are moments where you go, what the hell am I doing here? What a moment or two that stand out where you go, Oh, this is amazing that I get to do this.

Coach Pamela Mitchell:

I would say that one of those moments was when I got first started in the entertainment field. Well, actually, the first trip that I took was to Cannes to the south of France. Now, of course, everybody knows Ken, because of the Cannes Film Festival. But you know, there are many festivals that happen in Canada, including for television. So I got to go to MIPCOM, which were like the big television festivals. One of those can trips, we were meeting with a client, and I did international licensing and distribution for their multimedia group for the Discovery Channel. And so this particular client, who we were discussing, doing a licensing deal with in their country, had a yacht. He said, Why don't you come after me? You know, we're in the conference, you know, having the meeting, he said, Why don't you come to my yacht, and have lunch and have a swim? This day, okay. Okay. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Also, because I'm a typical black girl. And I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna really have to like my hair, get my makeup, you know, the good thing for a woman to like, get undressed to put on a swimsuit and go swimming or whatever. But he was like, no, no, no, let's do this. I and my colleague, we went, and we had this lovely, lovely lunch. And then we went swimming in the Mediterranean. At moment, I was like, it is the middle of the afternoon, and I am with the client. Yeah. Living in the Mediterranean. This is amazing.

Achim Nowak:

I love so many things about this story. But I was also thinking, until we experienced that moment, it's almost hard to envision it. And once we've had the experience, we can envision more of it and more of different things, right. And I love that you gave yourself permission to show up and do it.

Coach Pamela Mitchell:

I know it was it was hard. It was like there was a lot of arguing going out of my head.

Achim Nowak:

Corporate work at the level that you describe also can come with a lot of stress, a lot of pressures and can be tough. So if you take us to the other end, was there a moment is so you went? I don't know. I don't know if this is right, I don't know what to do. This is in the field good to me. Well,

Coach Pamela Mitchell:

the more senior you get in an organization, the more it's about navigating the politics of the organization. What makes me a great coach also made me good at corporate politics, but I didn't feel that it was the best use of my talents, you know, fighting turf battles within organizations. What difference did that make in the world? So I had already been feeling a little bit dissatisfied. From that perspective. There was a moment when I traveled, right, because I did International. So I would travel, I would do three weeks, two to three week trips, because to me, it just didn't make sense to go in and out back and forth. So if I went out, I was going out for like three weeks. So that was my life, close to 10 years. So two things. One is I had a moment when I woke up. And I'm like, where am I? Because of course, you know, I was at a hotel, different countries, cities woke up and I'm like, Oh, my God, where am I? And I realized I was at home in my own bed. And I didn't even know it. I hadn't even recognized I didn't know that I was where I was. So that was one moment where I was like, I don't have a life where I live. Right? I have this life in the world, but I don't have a life where I live. The second thing. You know, I lived in lower Manhattan. I lived three blocks from the World Trade Center. I was home when the and here we are. We're filming this right before September 11. So home right before when the towers fell, like I was home when the planes hit, I was getting ready to go out. I came back and I'd been walking across the Brooklyn Bridge. I like when everybody was rolling in the streets above that whole big cloud. That was me. I was part of that. So I had had this, I had already been feeling dissatisfied. But going through that experience where, you know, I had to run literally run from my house through the streets, not know what was going to happen, couldn't go home for a month have met the whole bit. It just started me down this road of thinking Life is short. And I want to make an impact in the world. And this has been a great life. Like it was great. I had a beautiful loft in Tribeca. I had a great career. I had great friends, I traveled the world. But at that point, I said you know if I continue on this path I IN THE NEXT 10 to 15 in yours, I'll have exactly the same thing. This is all I'll have, because that's what this life delivers. And if I want anything different, then I need to make a chain so that those two things kind of, were the catalyst of of that next change.

Achim Nowak:

I really appreciate you taking us to 911. As you're talking, I lived about 15 blocks north of view. We didn't know each other at the time, but I remember standing at the corner of Sixth Avenue and Carmine Street, watching the second tower coming down. And we both left New York around Similarly, a few years later, and my journey of my inner journey started in that moment, right. But what I also got, we have to give ourselves permission to investigate and ask the questions, right? You have these wonderful laws in your book that I love. I have had the book forever. And I just added my, you know, my bookshelf, our conversation. And that's ironic that you talked about travel because one of your laws is law for what you seek is on the road, less traveled? Is the road you chose? Would you talk a little bit about the meaning of that, for our listeners, but also for you?

Coach Pamela Mitchell:

What really happens many times when we stand on the precipice of a change is that there is these the obvious path, the one that makes sense, given what we've done in the past. And that's for me, what is then to get another job and entertainment, like that was the job that that was the path that made sense. The path that didn't make sense, the one that we can imagine often is the richest path, but it requires us to, to follow that road less traveled and not get the usual support, or the kudos of the world in that. For me that was leaving New York City and leaving entertainment, which everybody was like, What are you doing? And even I was like, What am I doing? I never thought I'd leave New York City and never thought I loved New York City. And I was like diehard New Yorker. But this idea of being open to leaving the city was huge for me, as well as open to leaving entertainment.

Achim Nowak:

What so speaks to me about what you just said, when I left Manhattan, and I lived in the glamorous West Village, you were you were a little south of me. And I told people that I was going to South Florida. Everybody asked, but aren't you going to miss New York? Aren't you going to miss this and that and that. And in the spirit of our conversation, and I somehow I magically got there that said, I don't need South Florida to be like New York. I went to New York, I would stay in New York. That's alright. I want to give South Florida permission to be different because I want to be in a different experience. Right. Right. Now you started the reinvention Institute. I love the word Institute. You know, I'm originally from Germany, where everything is called Institute, right? Culturally, that's meaningful to me. But you also put a word on the map that 20 years ago wasn't maybe as current as it is now. So, and we just heard a little bit about your own reinvention. And it was a big step, not a small one. But if you wanted to explain to our listeners about your understanding of the word reinvention, and what we mentioned, might mean in their own lives, what is that?

Coach Pamela Mitchell:

First, let me say that my leaving entertainment to become a coach was actually my second reinvention. Okay, my first reinvention was to leave Wall Street, to move to the entertainment field. And that was the one that taught me the journey and process that I now teach to others. So this idea of leaving one thing that you've done for work, and changing to something different or changing it up in a way that's not expected? Yeah, like I'd had to go through that journey. When there was nothing in the world talking about reinvention. There were no reinvention coaches, you know, there are no books or anything like that. And in fact, if you said you wanted to make a switch, like everything was about climbing the ladder in your career, nothing about switching ladders. reinvention is a word. And I chose it, because to me, it really captured this sense of possibility. reinvention is a word that a lot of times has baggage because people think of it as kind of these drastic changes like going from entertainment or from Wall Street to entertainment or leaving all of that behind and coming down and becoming a coach and that's one version of entertainment of reinvention. But reinvention just means really doing something differently. That isn't expected so you can be in the same place and reinvent what you're doing by taking on an unexpected path, or changing how you do something. So there's small, small versions of reinvention. And then there are the big ones. So that's what I want the listeners to understand is that you don't have to leave your entire life behind to pursue a reinvention. You know, you get to take all the good pieces or the big pieces. And it could just be a little small thing. I say, I say in the book, don't use a power saw when pinking shears will do, right? Tweaks.

Achim Nowak:

A word from your sponsor, that's me. I invite you to go to the website associated with this podcast www.my, fourth active.com, you will find other equally inspiring conversation with great humans. And you will also learn more about the my fourth act mastermind groups where cool people figure out how to chart their own fourth acts. Please check it out. And now back to the conversation. To build on what you just said is, I think the question often is, do I make an adjacent move? Why do I make a big change, which is where you're talking about your story, I think of as a really big change. And at the same time, I have a hunch, because you became an entrepreneur, he did your own thing. That was no regular paycheck that can be really scary for people. And at the same time, I have a hunch, there were a lot of skills that you had learned that transferred into your business that on the outside looks really different. But what are some skills, gifts, talents, beside your passion for reinvention that helped you that you had already learned as you launched your business?

Coach Pamela Mitchell:

Okay, so yeah, the entrepreneurial journey, no joke. That is truly no joke. And I am really grateful to be here. 20 years later. accomplishment. Okay, so some of the things that I took from entertainment, the idea of creating what I would say, is a brand and content that you license, because that's what entertainment companies do, they create a show or something, it's all around the brand, bigger brand, or smaller brand of the show, they create one piece of content, and then it just goes out on all platforms. So I took that right off the bat, I was like, You know what, I'm going to create a piece of content. And then I'm gonna put that out on all platforms, I'm going to look at creating a brand because that's how you do that. And then from Wall Street, I took the focus on revenue. Because when I went to coach school, back when there were only like 11 Coach schools in the world, your I should say, in the US, not in the world, because there were International Coach schools, but in the US, or maybe 10 or 11, that I researched that were there. For the International Coach Federation, it was only one person in myself that even use the term revenue. So I took that like, very fundamental focus on revenue, and brought that into this as well, which is also unusual for coaches.

Achim Nowak:

One thing I like to joke about, but that was very intentional for me, like when I started my first business 20 years ago, so there are lots of parallel tracks between you and me. And I, I said, what this isn't about, I'm not going to be a cheap date. I know you are a boutique brand. And you my friend are also not a cheap date. If you were to give guidance to anybody, because many people may have say, I have this dream of doing something. I want to launch that on my own. But how will I make money at it? You talked about brand reutilization? Right? But how do you Pamela and I'm not going to speak about knee but how do you decide that? I'm going to be a top brand. I'm going to be a boutique brand. You know, I'm not going to be Kmart. And there's nothing wrong with Kmart. But that's not me.

Coach Pamela Mitchell:

It's true when when they said here's the range for coaches let they make on average based on your scale. Well, I'm going to be like right above that range. Like I'm going to be the top boutique. I think it's because from the start, I had a focus on two things. One is what is the problem that I help people solve? That is the fundamental piece. It's if you're not helping someone solve a problem, then it's very difficult to be a top brand. Yeah. So you have to focus on what's the problem that I help people solve. And then I focused on well and that they would pay for All right, because there are lots of problems that people have, but they're not willing to pay us all, but ones that they're willing to invest in. And then I decided that I wanted to be known as the expert in reinvention, like from the very beginning, I was like, Okay, I need to be the national expert in this topic. And that and I was a very conscious decision. And I started to map out this whole strategy, so that over the course of like, 10 years, that I could position myself as the expert in reinvention, career reinvention

Achim Nowak:

and that you have done and that

Coach Pamela Mitchell:

I have done, it was a very deliberate focus.

Achim Nowak:

So the as I get older, the question that always interests me, and I think you and I a similar sense that once we put our mind to something, we tend to manifest it. I'm a manifester. So the question is, Is this really what I want to manifest? Or am I chasing the white thing? Or as we go through reinventions does the thing we want to change we want to chase need to change? So in your mind, this is if you'd like an abstract question, but I genuinely want to know what you think, because you described very intentional strategy right now. And at the same time, I know that you're married to a wonderful man, originally from Cuba, who you stumbled onto in a bar, which is probably the last, the last, you didn't go there with the intention of meeting your husband. So serendipity that happened to all of the way. So how much if all party life is strategy, which articulated and just open to what the universe is sending?

Coach Pamela Mitchell:

That's an excellent question. Yeah, it's definitely being in a rock bar, because I don't even drink. So the fact that I'm a huge joke, to me, and my next book that I'm going to be writing is called How to create opportunity, to me is this partnership between strategy and serendipity? And that you are always kind of dancing between the two, that you can have a strategy in terms of what it is you'd like to accomplish, that gives you direction and puts you in motion. But you need to be open to those moments of serendipity. Because to me, like, I have to be willing to say yes to the magic, in my head might be saying one thing. Like I was saying, when my friend literally said, oh, let's go out for drinks tonight on a Friday night. And I wanted to say no, because I was a new entrepreneur. I had just started, I was working all the time. And then the other part of me was like, no, go out. I didn't know that I would meet my completely amazing husband. Yeah, Jeff, by that? Yes. I'd say it's really both. It's really both.

Achim Nowak:

Yeah. My hunch is is that follow your writing and your work. And the way you talk about it is it can sound like we're talking about career reinvention. But it's really about creating the kind of life that at the soul level you desire, and giving yourself permission to do it, which is expressed through work and through all the other things, the relationships, love, all those things. And I love to the the story you told about waking up at home and going where the hell am I in my own life was because I traveled a lot I even when I was home, people always had a perception that I wasn't home that I was traveling. So my brand was the one that travels even when I was not traveling. So I'm curious, you are very successful in traditional ways in terms of your impact in the world and the revenue you make. You've been married to a wonderful man for a while. You've had a business for 20 years. Do you think about so what's next? Or do you think about what else wants to emerge? What have I not done? What are some other yearnings that I can satisfy now because all of that stuff is in order?

Coach Pamela Mitchell:

Yeah. You know, that's an interesting question. Because one of the things that I say to people and it's true and true for me, as well, because I'm human is that every five to seven years, we enter a new stage of life. Yeah. And we become, we're different people. Yeah. The things that made sense for us in a particular stage as we start to enter another stage no longer fit, and that's natural, because we've become different people. The other thing that I say is, even though I talked to people about career and it's this intersection of personal and professional like we work at the intersection of personal professional because my philosophy is that career is a mechanism to create a life you love. It's I love that both and we always start with, you know, what's your vision for your life. So for me, I love what I do career wise, right? Like, I love the topic of reinvention. And if I were to go back for a moment to say, if somebody wants to be an entrepreneur, I would say, pick a topic that you love. And that like you just never get bored with, because you're gonna be talking about it for a long time. So that does not change how I express it changes. I've been a traditional coach, now we're building, you know, we've got digital products, we're doing a digital group coaching program, you know, we're expressing it differently. And then in life. You know, like I said, I love what I do, I don't envision stopping working coaching, because it's fun. However, I'm married to a man that's older than I am. And he's on a different stage of life. It occurred to me that even though I could very happily work for the next 10 to 12 years, just flat out that if I did that, I would miss a stage with my husband, because he's older. And so that things needed to change for me, because I have this amazing partner, and I feel grateful and fortunate to have him and I want to spend time with him. What I woke up to is, okay, so for the next five years, like, I'm focusing on this whole digital products piece, so that I'm able to expand our reach without it being me personally. And we're also changing how we live, we then in Miami, you know, we were here, taking care of his parents, they now have both passed, and we're free. And so we're like, you know what, let's move. We want to build a house, which is amazing to me, because I never thought I wanted a house. You know, I was always like, I like my condo life. But it's also about this vision for having a place where family can gather, he's older, my mother is older, she's still here, thank God, I want to place where family can gather, and I want to make those memories. So that's like sort of my next vision is to create that container. Knowing that it will always be like that.

Achim Nowak:

There was so much wisdom in what you just said, I want to just reconfirm one thing you said, which has been very powerful in my own life. Because everything you're saying is about giving ourselves permission to continuously evolve and discover at the deepest level of what life could be for us. And I remember sitting in a in a hotel bar in Manhattan, with a woman who was the head of HR for a big blue chip, Wall Street firm downtown. And I was just learning a new course and new seminar from somebody and we would take clients out to drinks. And we were making chit chat. And she said, you know, my philosophy in life is that every seven years, I do something completely different. She said, seven years ago, I left Paris to come to Manhattan. And I feel another seven year change coming up. And what that comment did for me because I was going, am I making the right career choice? Is this really what I want to do? Am I selling out and just No, this is what you're doing for now. Exactly. And that freed me up in so many ways. I appreciate you for saying all of that. You also beautifully articulate what you want to create in life experiences going forward. Now many people, it's easy to use, let me put this way, it's easy to use the idea of moving somewhere else. So clearly having a different poem as a band aid for something else we haven't addressed, it can look like a surface move. You're clearly not talking about that. My partner, my partner and I are looking to move to Europe next year. So we're clear about why we're doing what what are you mentioned an older partner, what are you learning from him about life? As somebody who's in a different stage and what matters to him? That's

Coach Pamela Mitchell:

such a great question. Because he calls me the aunt because I'm always running around.

Achim Nowak:

What I know about you, I think he's got you right.

Coach Pamela Mitchell:

scurrying around doing a million things. He he knows how to relax. Yeah, he knows how to relax, he knows how to chill. And that is really a lesson that I need more of, but he he stands as an example and he stands as a reminder for me to slow down and be present. I think if I if I didn't have him, you know, I would just be working all the time. I realized that like I said, I'm so grateful to have him and you know, I've lost people that I love. My sister lost her husband her great love. I just know that none of this is promised and so like I live it sounds morbid in some ways that I live With the idea of death every day, yeah, but having gone through this with people that I love, I recognize how precious this time is, he helps me calibrate more, he helps me see that. Yeah, I got a lot to do. But like the last thing, if this were my last moment on Earth, the last thing I'd want is not to have taken the time to be present. So I'm always like, kind of dancing with both of those.

Achim Nowak:

We're talking about slowing down on being present. In what else are you discovering in the slowing down, because it's slowing down allows us to know more of what we think and feel inside? That allows us to notice more of what's going on around us. So as your husband is inviting you to slow down some more. What and you talked about being present, but what are some things you are discovering about you along that ride?

Coach Pamela Mitchell:

Like I'm discovering what really matters to me. I think that especially being in New York City for so long, and being an entrepreneur, there are many metrics that the world tells you that you should be chasing, and that I believed for a long time that I should be chasing. I've always been a boutique firm, but it took me a long time to really embrace it in my head, just say that's what we are. It is completely okay. I don't have to be $100 billion dollar company, like every other VC tells us that we should be like all the things. I think it's just this idea of, you know, what's important to me, and what do I need to be doing to enjoy my life? Like what memories because in the end, like when you're lying in that bad if you're fortunate enough to have that the the way you go, Oh, you have a memory, I always think about what memories do I want to be remembering about, like what I did and what my life was. So I really wanted to be remembering how much I sat at my desk, but I don't think so. So it's those kinds of calibrations, that he invites the inquiry to see like, what are the things that the memories I want to be making for myself in my life?

Achim Nowak:

That was so beautifully said, I just have two more questions before we wrap up. First one, and I don't mean this in the sense of rewriting our life, because our life got us to where we are. But if you had a chance to get some guidance to young Pamela in Minnesota,

Coach Pamela Mitchell:

that's Milwaukee. So what got you.

Achim Nowak:

I'm glad we clarified that What is something you know, now that you would offer as guidance not to change the path, but almost if you were your own spirit guide, what would you tell her?

Coach Pamela Mitchell:

I would tell her that as an adult, we're going to be fabulous, so not so not rewarded. Yeah. For like the spirit that she had, like, in the way that she saw the world and what she wanted to do, like none of that was rewarded. And so she had to hide a lot. And was, you know, again, just not popular, all the things? And what I would tell her is that, like when you're looking at all those young girls, and you're saying, Oh, look at them, you know, they've got so much going on, I would tell her that it's really better to come into that magic when you're older. Right? It's so much better to come into your magic as a woman when you're older. But you can only know that when you live that like I now see the girls and that was their moment. No, I will take my moment. Now.

Achim Nowak:

You don't want to be the person who says my best life was when I was 19.

Coach Pamela Mitchell:

Exactly. That's, I believe, right.

Achim Nowak:

And last because you're in my mind the reinvention guru, if you were to give you did it already, but I want to wrap up with it. If you were to give some guidance to the listener who goes I have some urges to start my own thing like Pamela did. I have some ideas about a brand. But maybe I don't have her impressive past. It was probably easy for Pamela because she had this great resume. And she went to great schools and what kind of guidance would you give somebody who hears that voice is afraid to step forth?

Coach Pamela Mitchell:

I would say that I wasn't born with any of those things. Right? Like if you looked at my trajectory like my I was the first first statement go to college in my family. So the fact that I went to an Ivy League school was just completely out of the realm like I could have just gone to the local technical college, and that would have been good enough. Yeah, people think that when you have like a glamorous bio, or resume that that's the thing that opens the doors. But it's not because, you know, if you're not born with it, it doesn't mean number one that you can't create it. And number two, that there are many pathways to success, like you have to decide, what is success look like for you? What is it that you're looking to build, and then look at what matters to those people. You know, I knew for what I wanted to do that having the what I call gold plated bio. And that's literally what I called it in my head. And it was a very intentional thing that I built. But it was because I knew it mattered in the way for what I wanted to build. But if that's not what I wanted, what I spend my time doing it now, because you got to build for what you want to create. That's what I would say. So look at what you want to create, and then say, what does it make sense? What matters to the people that are going to be buying? from me? I did those things, because I wanted to be the expert. So it wasn't for that, but I wanted the expertise. And I wanted the world to see that. And that's a shorthand. So you look at what do you want? And what's the shorthand that people will say, Okay, this makes it safe for me to buy from that person, and build that.

Achim Nowak:

So clear. Thank you for that. Where would you like to send listeners who want to learn more about you? I've already mentioned your book, your audible books? Where would you like them to look?

Coach Pamela Mitchell:

You know, they can go to Planet reinvention.com. We have a free quiz. So they can learn their reinvented personality, which is really the first thing that you want to know when you're embarking on a journey. Because you want to be able to structure it in a way that works for your personality. One of the big things is like expecting ourselves to do something in a way that doesn't fit who we are. So that first step is to know who you are. And then you can begin to build your journey from there. So planet reinvention.com forward slash quiz, and you'll get straight there.

Achim Nowak:

Thank you, Pamela. And thank you for the gift of this conversation as so appreciate it.

Coach Pamela Mitchell:

Right back at you, Achim, thank you so much. It has been a gift and a pleasure.

Achim Nowak:

Like what you heard, please go to my fourth act.com And subscribe to receive my updates on upcoming episodes. Please also subscribe to us on the platform of your choice. Rate us give us a review and let us all create some magical fourth acts together. Ciao