Why do so many women become more confident after 40?

In this episode of Menopause Love Lounge, we're diving into the surprising confidence shift that happens during midlife. From letting go of people pleasing to setting stronger boundaries, dating after divorce, body confidence, and finally trusting ourselves, this conversation is packed with honest stories and practical insights.

Our panel shares the personal moments that changed everything, including why divorce can actually become a confidence booster, how healthy boundaries create more freedom, and why so many women stop performing for approval and start living authentically.

In this episode:

• Why healthy boundaries create more freedom, not less
• The surprising confidence that comes from dating after divorce
• Learning to trust yourself instead of seeking validation
• Why many women care less about external approval in midlife
• The research behind confidence, body image, and aging
• How community and female friendships help us grow
• Why writing a dating profile can teach you who you really are
• The difference between performing for others and living authentically

Plus, we wrap things up with a hilarious round of "Absolutely Yes or Hard Pass," revealing the things we've completely outgrown after 40.

Timestamp

00:00 Why Women Become More Confident After 40

01:21 Personal Confidence Stories

04:16 Healthy Boundaries

10:12 What Real Confidence Looks Like

20:13 Divorce & Dating Build Confidence

24:08 Andrea's Confidence Journey

27:50 Dating Profiles Reveal Who You Are

33:19 The Science of Confidence After 40

35:09 Does Invisibility Create Freedom?

42:17 Absolutely Yes or Hard Pass

DM

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Mentioned in this episode:

From Mrs to Ms Dating & Relationship Podcast

Hello ladies and welcome back to the Menopause Love Lounge. So for decades, many women feel like they've been performing, being the good wife or the good mother, the agreeable colleague, the woman who keeps everything running smoothly. Yes, we do. But something shifts in midlife as we're all learning. Suddenly the approval that once felt necessary starts to feel kind of exhausting. So today we're going to talk about why women over 40 are performing less.

caring less about external validation, and finally living more authentically. And I love that for all of us, because I think we are each doing that. So we're going to pop in and give each of our personal reflections. We're going to share the moments in midlife when we realize that we no longer want to perform for approval, and maybe what's changed in our lives once we've stopped.

Karen is gonna give us some wonderful stats out there on why midlife often brings a powerful shift in this confidence, the boundaries and self-perception. And then we've got our, zoop, our legs wide open game at the end. We're gonna play absolutely yes or hard pass. And we're gonna be using our paddles to give a thumbs up or a thumbs down on what we would do now as opposed to maybe something we wouldn't do years ago. I'm really excited to touch base on that. Cause I know where some of you are gonna go with that.

Hi ladies, how are each and every one of you today? Yeah, I love that.

Hello, hello.

Rocking.

Okay,

So good to

All right. So let's jump into those personal reflections. Let's talk about each of us, where we're at, where we are now with our age, what happened and changed for us in midlife to make us feel a lot more confident than we did. I'm going to ask Ozzie if you want to get started for us. That would be amazing.

Sure. I didn't know I was going to get started, but I'll be happy to. I'll perform. I'll perform on cue. Yeah. So I've been a chronic over-functioner as a means to get love. I knew that from the start, from when I was young. That was how I thought I would get love and I in fact didn't. So was interesting that I took that on as a, you know, protective mechanism throughout.

Hmm. I know. And it'd be out of the way.

Perform! Perform! I say perform!

Ha

Yes.

⁓

my whole life. And I would like to say I'm a recovering over function. ⁓ However, I'm working on it, right? I'm more discerning now about how I function and what I do and what brings me confidence. Because for me, confidence isn't coming from my functions. For me, confidence is coming from my sense of self. So the more I'm authentic to myself, the more I listen to myself, the more I

Mmm.

Mmm.

⁓ share how I feel and ⁓ truly am myself, the more the confidence goes up. So it's not necessarily a performance thing anymore. Now it's more of a state. So if I'm in a good state, right? And that's where I'm at.

Mmm, I think that is so attractive Ozzy Laurie. Did you want to share something?

Well, I just wanted to ask Ozzy if there was a midlife shift. Like you obviously have come a long way. there a midlife shift or was it a gradual over time?

Yeah, that's a good question. think the more I settled into my perimenopause season, the more I realized that it's not that I don't give a shit. The more I realized what I prioritize and what I do give a shit about and made that more of, right? So I think there was, it certainly has shifted in how I see myself and how I show up in general. ⁓ I have to remind myself many times too through

through midlife. there certainly was that shift, but there's also still the part that still needs to be ⁓ addressed or needs to be worked on some more or just even a reminder. Sometimes I'm like, okay, stop, let whoever I'm doing know whether it's a thing or it's a person, let them know what my boundary is, right? So it's just instilling better boundaries in midlife. I've been able to

feel more confident in my state of being. Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Nice

Absolutely.

Totally. You know, I think a lot

of people hear the word boundaries. I know when I heard the word boundaries years ago, it felt like I was cutting myself off from people, you know, setting this hard no or this hard line in the sand. And I was going to lose connection. And what I found through the years is boundaries in a healthy way allows more connection. And it wasn't until I really learned how to do that in in a loving way that was honoring to me that helped me actually have

Mm-hmm.

more love and more freedom in my life. The healthier the boundary, the more freedom and happiness I had. Because a lot of times I'd hear boundary and go, ooh, dirty word, dirty word, ouch, I don't want that.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yay!

Yeah,

You

know that the best way that I have heard it described, and I can't take credit for this, but I have repeated this to so many of my clients over the years, is that boundaries are like a fence you put around your beautiful garden. Right? Like we work so hard to cultivate this life, this beautiful garden with all of the things and people that we care the most about.

and

Hmm.

Mmm.

Mm-mm.

you know, no, we are not going to let everybody come in and trample all over it with their dirty feet. You know, it's like, it's like, so, so the minute that I started thinking about it that way, like it was just a fence around my, beautiful garden. I feel like it shifted the whole, my, relationship with boundaries, you know.

Right. Right.

I like that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah,

Yeah.

it still allows people in, right? It doesn't preclude people from coming. It's just you're more discerning about who comes in and how they come in, right? So that people understand what works for you. And if it doesn't, and most of the time boundaries often will get people triggered, right? Your boundaries, they're not really let them, right? Like this is where I will be okay with saying, them be triggered. It's okay that someone is triggered by your boundaries.

Exactly.

That's it.

Mm-hmm.

They don't have to agree with them. You have to agree with them and you have to stand by them and you don't have to quantify them either. think a lot of times we get, don't know if any of you get stuck in the quantifying why it is that you have a boundary and maybe it's a woman thing. Maybe we learn that we have to, yeah, like we have to explain why we need what we need and how we need it.

The over explaining.

Yeah, it's a new muscle. Yeah, I love that metaphor of the fence, you because when I work with my clients, because they come in with a fortress around their heart when it comes to love. I'm like, you don't have to let down the guard. You don't have to let down the wall. But we want to poke some good holes in, have some light coming in and let the good stuff in, but also have the protection of, yeah, that's not for me. And that's a dance. Like, how do we learn?

So good.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

like healthy discernment. How do we let certain things in, certain people in, certain beliefs in, and yeah, that's not mine, and thank you very much, but no, no, yeah.

Discernment. Yeah.

which is literally our role as women with uteruses and cervixes to choose with our bodies and our intuitions what is allowed in or not. So discernment, literally.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Right, right. It's

Mm, literally. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

also attached to control, right? And again, this is a good lead up to the confidence conversation, right? The minute we understand true confidence, we understand that we have to let go of control and not abandon ourselves, right? We're truly ourselves. We're not trying to control someone else's outcome or someone else's feelings. We're simply controlling what we can control.

Mm-hmm.

and in a way that's letting people know how we want to be treated.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think also the best part about figuring out that confidence is really discerning between all of those things, because you said like, we don't want to abandon ourselves, but we want to let go of control. And some people make those synonymous, right? Like, how do I let go of the control, but not abandon who I am and myself? And sometimes it's just really figuring out what exactly I can't, what little bit of that control you can maybe let go that still keeps you in the right place, in the confident place, but you're letting others do stuff. It's a hard dance.

Yeah.

There's a sweet spot.

It's a sweet spot.

Such a hard

It is,

It is

dance.

a balance.

but it's a hard dance. Yeah. Yeah. Because I struggle with that a lot. I know we're not even talking about control here, but that, I think it all plays into all of the confidence and everything because it's very difficult to, you know, ties and trust, right? You're trusting whoever you're letting that control go to. And then once you do, it is like just a weight off your shoulders to go, ⁓ they got it.

Yeah.

I can do something else, I can work on something else and still create that confidence in a different area than where I thought I needed it to be. So I find that so interesting.

You know, Andrea, I actually

think this conversation about ⁓ being ourselves and being authentic and having confidence is completely tied to control and trust because the more we can allow ourselves to trust, to feel safe, to open, the more we feel confident. And it's like chicken or egg, but at the end of the day, know, tying back to what Laurie said, you know, about...

completely.

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

opening up and being intimate with people. just watched her episode yesterday on Second Act TV. Is that what it is? Yeah, it was such a brilliant segment on the third date. You gotta check it out. And I couldn't stop watching it. And I know this shit, but I'm just like, I was so like, like, is, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Because she was talking about slowing things down. And like as women, when we open up, it's a big deal letting someone in, especially between our legs.

Yeah.

We need a reminder.

Mm hmm.

Red.

And that

takes a lot of confidence in ourselves and trusting ourselves to go, you know what? I'm not ready yet, or I am ready yet, ready yet, ready to do that. So I just wanted to plug that episode. It was so wonderful.

Mmm

Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome.

y'all.

There's nothing like

quiet confidence, Like when you just know it, like you know yourself, you know your boundaries, you know where you're going, right? And have you ever watched somebody walk into a room and it's not ego, it's simply they're gliding through and you're like, wow.

Sexy.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

They're grounded. Yeah, they're owning it.

Who is that? Yes. Yes.

want to say something. I want to say something

Yes.

that's like a counterpoint to boundaries or maybe the umbrella to the concept of boundaries because I've been teaching people confidence for over 20 years and I literally teach them that confidence is an outcome of your personal integrity and your personal integrity is the alignment of your highest ideals, your thinking and your planning and your actions. That's the Handle Method version of what is personal integrity and it's

Mmm.

Personal not integrity capital I it's personal lowercase P lowercase I Because your highest ideals are different than mine. So when you see someone walk in and in the places where I don't The places where I feel confident are the places where I am crystal clear what my highest ideal is in the moment My thinking and planning is aligned and then my actions are aligned to that and the places where I am NOT confident is where I either Haven't figured out my highest ideal or I'm not operating based on it

or I figured it out, I made a plan and then I didn't do the freaking plan!

See ya.

So is it dependent then on your, on that?

I wouldn't, well, I think there's like your God given knowing that you are a divine being, which is like the most essential level of confidence and self love. But I think in the day to day, it's such a hack. It's such a hack to design, it's such a hack to design your life, right? Like it's such a hack to go, I know what, and it's similar to what you're saying. I think it's another way to say boundaries, because boundaries is another way to say, I figured out my highest ideal, so I'm ruling out what isn't.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's the fence around the garden. And then I'm planning in accordance with that and acting in accordance with it. So I think it is just another way to say boundaries are the activity of self-love and true confidence, I think.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

I'd like to add one more thing. I'm sorry, Ozzy. I was just gonna say I wanna... ⁓ Go, go, go, go, go.

And when you say highest ideal, go ahead. I was just going to ask you about highest ideal.

Yeah.

Yes.

We're short just-

No, just want to,

I'm curious if the audience understands, just so we get an example of what is, what does that mean?

⁓ examples galore. mean, I'll take even, I think, you know what's so funny? I'll give an example that is my personal reflection. Okay. So we'll, get me out of the way. You all make me want to stop overperforming, right? Like if there was a moment in my midlife when I met you all that I was like, right. Because I've never been surrounded by five other capable, brilliant, empathetic, spiritual women like this. So it really was the first time.

Mm-hmm.

in my midlife where I could be like, maybe I don't have to prove myself and maybe I don't have to keep quote unquote over-functioning or over-performing. And so I've really, so my highest ideal, right, in this case, my highest ideal is to show up as a collaborator and a partner. And in the past, my highest ideal might've been to control the situation and be able to anesthetize my own anxiety.

Mm-hmm.

Got it.

subconscious operating highest ideal that was managing the show. And now the shift of meeting you all and being in this group, I can now make my highest ideal collaboration and connection, which then has me think and plan differently, which then has me act differently. And then I still want to talk about, yeah, it's a good distinction and thank you for asking. And then I still want to just dog your ear because I know I want to hear everyone's personal reflections, but.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm, amazing.

Thank you for explaining

that.

I feel like if we're gonna talk about performing versus true confidence, we have to look at the different areas of performance because this is, I'm giving an example of like performing in a work group, but love is totally different and at the gym is totally different and with my kids, it's totally different and with my vanity, it's totally different. Like there's just so many places we can perform versus feel true confidence. I don't know. I just wanna make sure we break that down.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And I love that Menopause Love Lounge helped actually create that shift in your midlife. That's really, really cool. And also to the effect of allowing people in or trying new things, putting yourself out there, trying a whole new business. You already had a lot on your plate when I came to you and said, hey, be a part of this with us, you know.

Thank

And you threw caution to the wind and said, you know what? This is an opportunity for me to step into another space within my life or show what I can bring to a table, right? Again, in different ways. And with that, you met us. Amazing. you know, and like, that's pretty cool that that is where your shift somewhat took place. How cool is that? You know what I mean? Yeah. Really neat. Really neat. So thanks for sharing.

True.

Woo woo woo.

you

Yeah, very. That's why we're doing this, isn't it?

Yeah.

To be that for other people too, right? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yes, yeah.

an example,

Do you find yourself, Laurie, to be performative in love? I mean, you are a love expert. So I'm going to ask you even within your own relationship, as an expert in love, ⁓ within your own relationship or the clients that you tend to work with, do you see a lot of that where they are being so performative in love? And I remember in one other episode, it might have been about the anxiety. We talked about confidence in the bedroom.

It's really funny.

And you kind of, you piped in and made a statement about like, ⁓ are women actually required to be confident in the bedroom or is that a man thing? If I'm not mistaken, right? You kind of referenced that. That does sound like, yeah, you said it.

Right. That sounds like something I would say. Right. I mean, I am so I'm

so from the vulnerability and honesty camp that it's like. I mean, I can put on a show like I I rehearse, you know, for my podcast, like I'm not against performing. And in fact, I do feel like I care about my performance as a wife and a mother. Like those are two things I still care about.

Thank

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

And I think I

Yes.

still care about my appearance, right? Like I'm still performing in some way. And it's like, we always say, right, the, don't care club. We're like the, only care about certain things club. So, you know, there's things, there's things I care about in places where I want to perform. But to me, performance is not about looking good to my clients because in fact, I tell my clients all the terrible things I do quite on purpose to, to normalize the mistakes we make and to.

Yeah.

to be vulnerable and to be honest and to show you that if you mess up, you can clean up. But that's different from, want to be true to my own highest ideals. For example, I want to listen well to my husband. Right, okay, Junie wants to say something.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

perfect because I wanted to piggyback on what you said before and this is the perfect segue, which is I want to be true to my higher self or aligned or have that integrity and I want to pull in a yes and on that. Yes, absolutely. we have and this is the work I do the shadow work which is the decades of all the programming of you should be like this. You better be careful you know the underlying I'm not good enough or I bet I might lose love all the all the fear stuff underneath it.

And so this is, and I'll go right into my personal reflection here, which is I was a micromanager. I was walking on eggshells for most of my adult life until I hit like my mid forties. And you you could tie it to menopause if you want. I don't know. All I know is in my mid forties, I hit over 200 pounds and I was miserable. And I thought I had a food problem, but what it was was I couldn't, even though I knew I wanted to be aligned, even though I knew I wanted to connect.

Mm-hmm.

to my higher self, there was so much stuff on top of my heart that I couldn't access it. So I was out of integrity in a way, not because I wanted to be, but because I was so disconnected from my true self. I knew it was in there. I believed in spirit, but I couldn't get to it until I did the shadow work to be able to kind of go, okay, wait a second, there's something else here. That's what my book is about, which is loving all of who we are, but we can't.

Right. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

until we actually see what's underneath. And that to me gives me the yes and it's like, yes, I can totally have the confidence, be fully who I am and embrace my life and no holds barred. Cause look out once I did the shadow work, it's like, I'm pretty darn fearless. As you guys know, I was naked on the internet. Well, know, gracefully done, painted with a message, tastefully with a message of there's no shame here, you know, but.

Mm-hmm.

Boobies. Mm-hmm. Tastily.

Yeah.

Tastefully,

yes, yes.

the transformation came from letting go of the beliefs that something was wrong with me. And not at the top of the mountain, still find those moments too, where I have to clean up or come back. But at the end of the day, what was underneath me was like a pressure cooker of be careful, don't screw up, I'm gonna lose love. Like Ozzy said, was all about if I'm good enough or for you achieving, but I had that too. It's like, if I'm just good enough, then I'm safe.

Right.

Yeah.

And then I could connect to spirit, but it was like cart before the horse. And yet, yes and. Yes, I was always connected to spirit and doing the best I could, but there was a whip behind me. And that did not feel like I was owning fully who I am until I was like, ⁓ this is what I picked up along the way. So I just wanted to bring that yes and around alignment and by yourself.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Beautiful.

great.

I love

that. love that. Karen, where are you at with your confidence? I think you're rocking it.

So I

think that divorce and dating are extremely underrated confidence boosters. I'm gonna say, yes, I said what I said. And the reason being that I think, I can't speak for everybody, but I grew up in a household where I think a lot of fear was taught to me.

Yes. Boom, drop the mic

⁓ mife drop for that. Totally.

you know, not so much fear of my parents, but I think I just really didn't believe that the world was a safe place that I could navigate on my own. I believed that I needed a lot of other people and things in place to feel safe. And it really wasn't until I got divorced and I was forced to manage both the freedom and the challenges of navigating life alone.

Mm.

Mm.

that I really grew in terms of confidence, that I really became the confident woman that I am now. And, you know, that's not to say that I don't trip up and that I don't falter, but I really do believe it came down to me just feeling like I can trust myself. I may not always get it right, and I may not always do it perfectly, but I can trust in my ability to figure it out, because if I figured out how to

If my world fell apart and was turned upside down and I figured that out, it feels like whatever challenges I meet going forward are just a little bit more manageable. And I will also touch on something. Laura, you said it, and Junie, you said it. I think this community of us, the six of us and, know, MLL ⁓ has grown me in ways that I never...

Mm-hmm.

Bye.

could have even imagined. ⁓ Like we're in it for six months and I have this big health crisis and like to feel so held and supported by you guys at my worst, most fearful, terrified moments, it brought me through and it made me feel like, okay, once again, it's like I got through it.

Kisses!

⁓ And I think that, you know, the more we have those challenges, maybe that's why at this time in our life, we feel a boost of confidence. Because at this time in our life, I don't think there's a woman out there who hasn't had to overcome some challenge or another. Right. And that's, that's where we get it from. So it's like, you know, that's why it's one of the reasons why I'm always saying like, don't hate menopause. You know, yes, it's challenging. Yes, it feels terrible at times, but, you know, just

Yes.

navigating our way through that, I feel like it has changed me on such a fundamental level. Like I could never go back to operating the way I did when I was 20 or 30 or even 40.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

That's such a

great point. And also, mean, you pointed this out so beautifully that confidence doesn't necessarily need to be something you do alone, right? Like having a good source of a foundational group of women or anyone, just having community in general, I think, inspires more confidence in you. thank you for, that's such a great point.

Mm-hmm, ooh, giving me goosebumps. I love this. It's so neat, you know, because we talked about this in the friendship episode, how hard it is to find friends at an older age, you know, and, you know, I've done it in multiple different groups and just like knowing you have that foundation, that stability of you guys that you can just reach out to when you need to, it does help build our confidence and it keeps us going.

He

at all the time. okay, I'll go next because I'm the last one to go. So ⁓ I will say, like for me, confidence, gosh, wow. When I think back to just growing up, I've talked about this before about my parents being older and I was very, very sheltered growing up for such a long time. And even when I got married, it was very, very difficult for me to let go of that relationship with my mom, everything I would go to her for.

And this went on for many, years until my ex-husband and I actually moved to Texas. And that's when I kind of blossomed a little bit and started to become my own person. But I still felt very, I don't want to say trapped. I wasn't trapped. was just very, oh, I just didn't know how to come out and to be who I felt I was really meant to be. And I more recently said this, even with me coming from the mortgage business into doing what I'm doing now, I wouldn't even recognize myself.

to be honest, you know, it's such a difference when you start to find out who you are and you do set those boundaries and who you're gonna accept in your life and who you're not. And just taking that little bit of a stance, it boosts you and it boosts that confidence to the next level. And every little thing that we do, this podcast alone, having the responses that we've gotten from it, the people that are like, you guys are amazing and what great stories you have to tell.

and your camaraderie and the way you connect and you're there for each other, that's boosted the confidence, right? Like I can come onto these episodes and host it knowing that you guys got my back. If I can't say something, somebody's gonna jump in and say something. That's a level of confidence. So for me, in other ways, I've also learned to no longer accept things that don't service me. It's just gotten to that point where I don't have to pretend like I like you. I don't have to pretend.

Yes.

You

know, any of those things. And while that might seem harsh to be that way, we're not meant to like everybody. We're not meant to be friends with everybody or we would all be the same. We'd all have the same personality. So I think it's it's really been exciting to figure that out. For me, my confidence had started after my divorce. ⁓ And so it had to just come out on your own. And and didn't somebody just say that like, divorce is one of the big times that you actually just have to

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

you just have to cowboy the fuck up, right? Like, and just do it. so fake it till you make it. And I can't say that I still don't have those imposter days, but that's exactly it. You just got to fake it till you make it. And I've found a lot more that when I am so hard on myself about where I'm at with things or what I'm doing, and this has come up actually on my other podcast from Mrs. Timmis, where I am like, who wants to listen to me talk about dating?

Fake it till you make it. ⁓

Yep. Yep. Yeah.

It's me putting myself down, right? And saying those things. And then now I'm kind of like, well, heck yeah. I mean, I have lived it. I have experienced every aspect of it. I have done where I've been cheated on. I have like had sex too early. I've done all of those things. you know, and so now I'm realizing, whoa, that, you know, my podcast is just booming. And even at, you know, my son's show this weekend, he's on tour and somebody, I actually had multiple people say to me,

Thanks.

My mom listens to your podcast. She thinks it's great. Yes. And I'm like, really? That's so amazing. And every aspect of that boosts your confidence again, right? Like I now can go to my this week's episode and go into it being like, everybody's listening now. You know, they're going to get something good, good, good. So when dating dating.

Mm-hmm

Awesome.

And dating, right, Andrea? Dating

Mm-hmm.

yeah.

was... I think everybody at some point in their life should write a dating profile. Even if you're not dating, write the profile because it is such a lesson in yourself in getting to know who am I? What do I like? For so many years, I think as wives and mothers, we are so used to deferring to what other people want and need.

Yes, not using it.

Humility,

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

that

Hmm.

we

don't even stop to consider what do we really want? What are our non-negotiables? What makes us who we are? What do we really absolutely need in a partner? know, like, it just, the process of dating not only makes you sort of immune to rejection and all of that, as you said, you know, I'm not for everybody, everybody's not for me, and that's okay, but it also really just deepens.

Mm-mm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

your understanding of yourself and of your own dynamics within relationships. I think it's like, as I said, just an underrated tool for women.

Mm-hmm.

You're

so right on that, Karen. I think it's really, would implore everybody to use it as a social experiment to the listeners out there. Wherever you are in your space right now, if you are single and you're in that, maybe in the paramedic stage and kind of a little bit younger, even if you're not ready to date, write that profile and then go back and write it like.

You know, once you are a little bit more dating and you're doing more and more and then a couple years later, you write it. God, if I went back and looked at my profile now, I wish we could keep them to go back and see what my profile looked like. You know, a few years ago to compare what I would write now, your vision of what you want for yourself has changed so immensely like me. was like tall, tall, tall, handsome. You know what I mean? Tall, they're going to handsome. All of that stuff. And now it's yeah, I mean, that has just moved. No, tall is still up there.

You

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Ta ta ta.

But beyond that, you know, everything else has moved down and I've just found the things that make me feel more confident in a relationship as well. You know, so great, great point. Mm-hmm.

And owning that, right? Owning that

unapologetically because a lot of times we apologize for having those needs or those wants, right? Yeah.

all the time, all the time.

Exactly, exactly.

Yeah, people sometimes are afraid to actually claim it. And when I'm working with people, I ask them, how do you feel about this one line? Well, you know, it feels like a little too selfish or a little too, you know, I'm being too full of myself, you know? And so like what's underneath that? I'm being too much, too big, you know, who am I to, you know, it's like, those are the nuances.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Versus exactly like what Ozzy just said. It's like owning it. It's like this is who I am I'm gonna make a bold statement because I am NOT gonna lower my light so that everybody loves me I always say if you have so many people in your inbox you you know We might want to look at what your profile is I want less people in your inbox But the right people in your inbox because you've pushed other people away and the right ones are going. ⁓ That's that's that's my girl. Yeah

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Exactly. Exactly.

Yes.

Yep. Yes. That's

right. That's right. Wow.

But don't you

think, I want to add one other thing here though, I we've kind of, because I think it's important to point out that confidence is not perfection, right? That's something I think we forget. It's messy. Sometimes being honest about, I'm feeling this way is part of confidence, right? It's that trust that some of you have mentioned too, which is so important to note because when you trust yourself, you could be yourself and therefore you can

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

you can have, right? But it's also owning the mess. It's owning the shit, right? That's vulnerable.

That is confident. Yep.

Yeah.

And confidence sometimes takes some time

100%.

by leaning into these things. We don't just come out and go, I'm confident in dating. It's like we kind of have to lean in and learn the ropes to some extent. And every time we build another muscle, we get more confident. It's not like we just drink a magic potion of confidence. It's a learning, it's a growing.

Ha ha.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But also coming off of, Karen and Junie and Andrea and I can relate to this, when we came off of being married, right? We're going through a divorce and now we're putting ourselves out there and we're going on dates and we're sleeping, right? We're sleeping with people and having sex and right, like that boost of confidence of someone liking you and other than the person that knew you for 17 years, 20 years, however long you were married for. And then all of a sudden you're like, oh, I still have it.

Yep.

Look.

scary.

Right? it just, it does help that. It's so nice to hear. It's a validation. The validation.

Mm-hmm.

That's nice to hear. That's nice to hear. For a friend. For a friend.

Mm-hmm. Yes, yes. Or finding

Yeah.

what you didn't even know you had. I mean, I say that all the time. I would say that. would say my ex-husband wouldn't even recognize me in the bedroom at this point. And it's just because it's a different relationship, right? And you come into yourself and what all of a sudden it's like, I'm not here to just please him. Like, what do I want? How am I going to be pleased within this sexual relationship and learning like...

Yeah. Yeah.

it's okay for me to be a little bit more aggressive or to do things that I maybe would never have done in my marriage, you It's fun too. In between, I'm like a red light therapy room. That's what I... Yes, yes.

Yeah. Lights on or lights off? No, I'm just kidding. We covered that already. okay. You're my kind of gal.

Hehehehehe. Hehehehehe.

So good. Well, Karen, why don't you tell us some of the stats out there of what's going on with the other women? Is everybody as confident as this as confident as this little group is right now?

That's us.

Well, the stats are pretty interesting.

So a couple of stats in particular, and then I'm going to pose some questions to the group because I have some questions about this. But women's confidence, not a surprise, increases with age, even though many of them report feeling very invisible, which is sort of counterintuitive, Especially when it comes to body confidence. Women have more body confidence as they get older.

Hmm. Yeah.

despite living in a culture that's pretty obsessed with youth even now. So that's kind of an interesting contradiction. Now here's what I think is super interesting. Women in midlife report becoming more assertive, less tolerant of unhealthy dynamics, and more willing to disappoint others. But here's the thing that we aren't always told when it comes to confidence.

Yes. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

it destabilizes relationships. If you've lived a life where you've built relationships on perfectionism and people pleasing, then you enter this period where you're renegotiating your whole identity and all of your standards, it shakes things up. And so there is, I think, a cost to this freedom and confidence. And I guess that's kind of the question I'll pose to the group is like,

Mm-hmm.

First of all, is invisibility in itself a type of freedom? The fact that women don't feel as much under the microscope, does that maybe lead to greater confidence as they get older? And then also, what is the cost of that confidence in terms of just its effect on your life and your relationships? What do you guys think?

Mmm. Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Laurie, go.

I think the agenda changes so profoundly and it's one of the reasons I stopped trying to coach daters in their 30s and wanted to focus on the 50 plus market because I believe we subjugate our needs, our personalities, our preferences, our whole, the totality of our experience to have these kids. I really think that like to have these kids and we get these kids and then we focus on these kids and it's enough because

Mm-mm.

of our hormones, right? Like it's enough. And then when that is no longer our purpose, right? Quote unquote and hormonally, then we open up our eyes. We are asked of different things now. We are no longer asked to be sex symbols. We are no longer asked to be mothers. So different things are being asked of us. And then we are also asking different questions now because those profoundly distracting roles, not distracting, absorbing roles,

are now no longer our primary roles. So we can now ask, what do we want? Right? Which is a very confidence building question. It's the beginning of personal integrity. And also that you're calling it invisibility, but I think that's like the shift away from us having to perform as sex objects and as mates and mothers. Yeah, we are more confident because now we're looking at the arenas we want to be playing in and

Right.

And there isn't that distraction or absorption in our maternal role or in our sex object role. So like, of course we're gonna be more confident. It's our full self showing up to this new thing that's actually ours.

I'd be curious to understand. No, it's a good interpretation, Lori. I'd be curious to understand what in being invisible, A, what does it do to these women, right? If I feel invisible, do I hide and do I get smaller or do I feel invisible because I'm isolating or do I feel invisible because I no longer need to be performative as Lori mentioned and I don't have to do all these things and I'm just

Yeah. Oof.

That's my interpretation.

Great.

perfectly fine where I'm at. I'd be curious to know what that means to them or to the women that they polled.

Well, the women they polled were saying that they are more confident as a result of it. despite it, they're more confident. it's nobody's, I think that's it. I think that's it, yeah.

okay. So it's a good thing.

Right. Nobody's

watching, so I can actually be myself.

Yeah

Yeah.

Yep. Yep.

That's a great way.

curious

if it's single women or married women, because I would see it very differently, because all the women, not all, but a large part of the population of the women I serve, same as Lori, 50 plus, once they start moving into being seen again by another with intimate partners, potential intimate partners, there's a lot of shit that bubbles up about my body doesn't look the same way.

I am not as attractive as I used to be. Like all the crap that we've been taking on all these decades and now certainly with social media, that there's a lot of I'm not good enough or insecurities. So on the one hand, they're not putting themselves out there or if they've been in a long-term relationship where there's kind of a level of comfort, they know who I am and I just feel like it's different. once...

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

So like, ⁓ gosh, now I am becoming more visible. I kind of feel like it's almost for some people a safety place. I can just be me and a lot of women are very comfortable not being seen because they feel so great, but as soon as they lean in, it's like, what's gonna happen? And so I don't know, it's a little murky for me around who's saying this and what's going on.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Well, did that happen in

kind of putting you on the spot, Junie, because you are in the dating world. You you've had this wonderful man that you've been with for over a year now, right? And what was nice and what was that like for you, for you, because you are the oldest of the group, we've established that not throwing you to the, not dropping that ball. You are elder. What was that like for you?

Mm-hmm. Yeah, couple years, almost couple years, yeah. Yeah.

Yes, I am. I'm the older. I'm the elder.

Yeah

more

mature.

We bow to thee.

What was that like for you? Like starting and getting with your partner for the first time like that.

Yeah.

Okay, so this is my specialty, which is loving myself as is I have gone through the depths of not good enough itis to get to this place where like I said, I bared all on the internet saying my body is a vehicle. I'm beautiful as is not at the mount top of the mountain. I still have some insecurities, but I'm pretty darn comfortable in my body as is.

Yeah.

Do I sometimes struggle a little bit with my aging or the reflection in the mirror or the extra fat in different places? Absolutely. But when we started dating, and this kind of goes back again to that episode I saw with Laurie around, we didn't jump into bed right away, which was my MO. I was like, I want to feel comfortable and safe and open with this person.

Yeah. Yeah.

And even though I felt good about myself, I knew when I went into the bedroom, I wanted to feel solid inside of myself with him. I know I'm kind of going in two different directions, but at the end of the day, I've done a ton of work around self love and allowing myself to be as is. so because this is what I do, I may not be a good person to answer this question because what I hear from my clients is,

Mmm.

Yeah.

The people that haven't done as much work around body acceptance, body love, feeling good about how they look in an older body, they have more of the struggles. I didn't really have that, not nowhere near as much as I used to. I was actually very happy and very comfortable once we ventured into that realm. So that's just me though. Yeah, freeing, freeing.

Yeah.

Amazing though. No, that's really great. I think you're the perfect one to answer that. Yeah, because you

showed the shifts through the different periods in your life when you weren't as confident and you felt like you were overweight and then you were good and then you didn't end up with that relationship and starting a new one.

⁓

Yeah, and it wasn't even about the weight.

I just want to say it wasn't even about the weight. Yes, I talk about being very heavy, five foot three, 200 plus. Yeah, but that I could have been like tiny. There were times when I was smaller, not tiny, I've never been tiny, but I was smaller and I still was like, ooh, what are they gonna think? And I was uncomfortable. that was my film is I never talk about my weight for that very reason.

Yeah, it wouldn't matter.

because it wasn't about the weight, it was about what was inside of me. And I need to figure out what was inside of me that was making me feel such low confidence. What was the messaging I was telling myself about? I'm not gonna be loved as is. So yeah, it's been a journey, it's still a journey. As I get older, things are changing, it is still a journey. But at the end of the day, I'm definitely way further down the line than I was.

Mm-hmm.

Right. Right.

Mm.

A woman.

Amazing.

I love that. Thank you, Karen, for sharing that so good. Those were great stats, great conversation there. All right, guys, it is time for our legs wide open segment. We are going to play a little game called Absolutely Yes or Hard Pass. We've all got our paddles today. This is how it's going to work. I'm going to read a statement. You're all going to have to answer immediately using your paddles. Thumbs up.

I thought. That was great.

Yeah.

No thinking!

⁓

No thinking!

No thinking.

Thumbs

up means absolutely yes, still doing it. Agree, I can relate. Thumbs down means hard pass, absolutely no, hell no, never again, couldn't be me. Okay, so no overthinking. We want your first instinct answers if you would still do that. And if everybody answers differently, then somebody's got Lucy, you got some splaining to do. Lucy.

Funny.

Great.

Let's do it.

LOSI

Let's go.

Let's

All

go.

right, and honestly, this game is really about confidence after 40, but the things we stopped caring about, the things we finally admit out loud, and the things that we absolutely too grown out for now. So we're just not having it. All right, ready? Here we go. First one, sharing your location with your partner for safety or convenience. Are you willing to do it or a hard pass? Convenient.

I'm

Convenient!

percent.

And I do want to do a little caveat on that. That should be a little bit, if you're just freshly dating, you don't need to do that yet. I read something the other day where a woman was like asking questions and she was like, well, but he put a key tag in my purse, like after our first week of dating. And I thought that was so sweet. And I'm like, no. Right? Yes. Yes. Yes. So yeah, sharing your look. Lori's having a heart attack.

O-M-G. ⁓

Yeah. Red flag. Yeah.

No way. No, no, and no. Yes, the caveat is that you are sharing it with someone you trust and

I didn't

you

know people.

People do that. People do that. And she was genuinely like, felt like, ⁓ he's really into me because he wants to know where I am. I know. Creepy. What if they... All right, number two. Cleared that one up. Number two, going through your partner's phone. If you had a reason to suspect something, is that something that you would do or is that a hard pass? You would just never ever do that. If you had something to suspect.

Yeah.

Pretty much there's somebody who does something everywhere. Oh, red flag, red flag, red flag.

UGH!

He likes me.

He's always with me.

Yeah. Creepy.

Yeah, Yeah, no.

Oy vey.

Okay, glad we've cleared that up.

I'm a hard one. I don't want to, but I have to.

Okay, I've done it before because only because then I hated it.

Ehhhh

I don't want to look at that face.

Let

me say, I would not do it because I would talk first with my partner of 30 years, but I am not against coaching someone to do it. So I'm just going to say, depends.

Exactly.

Yes. No, that's a great point. That's a great point.

Interesting.

Interesting.

And I think a really good way to handle that is maybe if you do see a message, let's say he or she's in the shower and as a partner, you happen to see a message pop up of something that is a little bit like, whoa, what's going on there? Don't immediately jump into the phone and start looking through their phone. Open up the lines of communication and ask, hey, so I just happened to see something on there. Yeah, I happen to see something. Is that anything I should be worried about? However you want to approach that.

dream.

Yeah,

conversation, communication.

So I think that's really good. Yes, communication.

All right, here we go to a few of you on this here particular platform, sleeping in separate bedrooms for better sleep. Is that something you are confident in doing and not with? I'm not there yet. I want to sleep with my man. I know this is usually how this goes.

Hahaha

won everyone over but you, Andrea. But you know what's so funny is you

guys have almost convinced me to want to sleep with my husband. That's what's ironic about this.

See? Okay,

so we'll let for those who are not watching on YouTube, those people are local, because you should be, but four of us, four of us said that we are okay not sleeping with our man. And Andrea, as always, like, no, I want to touch him, feel him on my neck, breathing me, touching me in every which way. So I'm good with that. Now that's me having, you know, as physical touch my love language. So I need that. Okay, so that has happened to me with my boyfriend now.

What if he snored? What if he snored, Andrea?

Yeah.

What man doesn't snore?

I know, so I do kind of just whack him, push him a little, whatever, as long as I can get to sleep first. I know, and I was telling him, I was telling him this the other night, and I'm like, he kept talking, and then he was like, God, just, I'm worried I'm gonna start slo-ing, and I go, you know what? As long as I get to sleep before you, then we're okay, so please just shut the fuck up. That's what I said, like, just let me get to sleep. Too much pressure, let me sleep.

ackum.

Women, women.

You

So much pressure, so much pressure to me, like I better go to sleep before he

series.

Alright.

But

snores.

women snore too. All my girlfriends snore. So when we go away, I'm always like, y'all need to not be in bed with me because I am a light sleeper. Like if you snore.

Yes!

That's why

Me too.

you hesitated Ozzy when I said about our retreat. I'm like I'll sleep with you ⁓ I Don't think I do I Don't think I did but Laurie I want to make the point of what about if there was one time one night a week or you have a you changed up you said you're kind of feeling like maybe you want it what if you were doing like ooh, that's your Date night per se where you guys do sleep together. What's wrong with that?

Yeah.

⁓

As long as you don't snore. you don't snore, I'm happy to snuggle.

you

She's enrolling you, Lori.

Well, actually you've all

already enrolled me in the benefits. It's the cost benefit analysis that's the problem.

Yes. And you've got Menop sleep

working on your side. Take that.

It's a good question whether good intentions, mellow sleep and push, know, it's also, don't, we're not, ⁓ sleep is such a precious commodity and it's so not assured for my husband either, right? So it just doesn't feel like a good risk, right? Even to push him and stop him and ruin his sleep, right? Like we're both really used to, we're both really used to managing our own sleep hygiene and so.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yes.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

I am tempted and I think if like,

Risk reward type thing.

if there was a surgery, for example, that we knew would work, that would stop the snoring or a thing, a miracle, right? I'm not going to the pill, you know, but you know, then I really, I would have to really, there is a, I'm sure there is a, I think that Don has told me there's a remedy, but I would absolutely have to reconsider if snoring was not an issue. Okay. Still need a king size bed though. Let's be clear.

a pill for this.

Ha ha ha ha.

I'm sure there's a remedy, Lori.

Okay. Good to know. Good to know.

Yes. All right. Number four, leaving a party early without feeling guilty about it. Do you feel, I'm good with that. But isn't that so funny? Like that is right there. Just the definition of becoming more confident in yourself and not being performative where I just remember so many times being like,

still in my space.

yeah.

What about going to a party? I don't even go. What are you talking about? What party?

Oh my God, I do that all the time. I do that.

No guilt,

no guilt.

Yeah, but what if, you know, they start talking because I left or what if they see me leave? Who cares? Who cares, right? That's what it comes down to.

Yeah. Who cares?

Go Andrea.

You know,

Michael, like my partner, I've noticed, you know, cause we're almost at two years. So we've, we've done some social things with his friends and stuff. noticed he doesn't ever want to leave like, like ⁓ many, many hours. And so it's his friends. It's, it's, it's, know, kind of his posse. And so I noticed this one, I think it was Christmas or Thanksgiving. And I was like, I'm tired. I want to go home.

Cute. Cute.

Yeah.

and I don't want to step on his toes and I don't want to ruin his time. So I, again, it's like how to be with both, but ultimate, sorry, what?

Hmm.

cars.

Yeah,

Yeah.

two cars, two cars, or maybe that discussion, the discussion ahead of time, right? Like, let's, hey, let's talk about what our timeline is to leave. How long are you wanting to stay? What's your night look like? What's your day look like tomorrow? And just communicating where you're both at with that. Yeah.

Two cars.

Separate cars.

Well, there's always that, but we're not doing that. exactly.

Yeah. And you

can do that for sure. And there I was. And then I was like, this isn't working for me. Let me be with it. Let me, and then, hey hun, and that's, you know, negotiate in real time, you know? And it was fine. It was totally fine. He wanted to take care of me. I want to take care of him. How do we do this together? And yes, preempting before ideally for sure.

Yeah, time to go. Yeah.

Perfect, perfect. Yeah, it's like eating before going to the grocery store. Do it. Okay, so, right? Number five, wearing reading glasses on a date or during sex. Are you confident enough? What are we reading during sex?

Why do you have to read during sex? What are we

Yeah, but

I

what

reading?

was just like

are you reading? Yeah.

The manual to the vibrator. Which setting do I want?

Reading class. Guys.

That's it. The

Hopefully you don't

manual to the vibrator. How's this thing work?

my God. How blind are you?

Yeah, I would do it if I had to though. Okay, ⁓ next one. Posting a sexy photo after 40. I do it all the time. But who's doing that? Yes, we're all doing it. I know, I know. I'm trying to keep up with it.

Yeah.

Come on, we're just trying to keep up with Andrea, come on.

Why not?

Stay fresh. Okay, ignoring a text because you simply don't feel like responding yet.

I'm incapable of doing that.

I'm hard on that.

Yeah, yeah,

no, I'm good with that too.

I'm, yeah,

I feel, I do, I will say, I do still feel a little bit of that obligation sometimes to, and it's probably, really have to say to my head, nobody's thinking about me that much. Like if they text me, in my mind, they're sitting by their phone, like when is she responding? Nobody's doing that, right? We gotta remember that. You are, I know, that's why when we got on this call, I said to you, Lori, I got your messages, I've just been busy. I did, I did.

⁓

I am Andrea. I'm waiting for your response.

equal opportunity. Like I treat as though as I would like to be treated with. But no, I understand that people can't always respond.

Yes, but do you take, but do

you have any kind of feeling around that? you, is there a line of offense? Are you offended if you're like, wow, I haven't even heard back from her and it's been an hour. Is there that kind of thing? Cause I don't have any unread text messages. I'll just say that on my phone. And when I see people with hundreds of unread text messages, that is like crippling to me. Yes. Yeah. So it doesn't bother you.

Now.

crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. No, I just

I just like getting things resolved. That's all. You know, I just like resolution.

Go ahead.

Okay, that's what it is.

There

is a distinction to be made though, because I think ignoring, you know, if you're just saying I'm cutting that off, I'm just not responding at all, that's one thing, as opposed to I'm taking a pause so that I can respond in a way where I feel regulated, where I feel thoughtful. That's a little bit different. So what I would say is I don't ignore any text messages, but I don't feel pressure to respond at that moment.

Yes.

Great. Disternment.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that's where I am.

Yeah.

Good chair.

Immediately.

because there are

Yeah.

Yeah.

times that I need to just process or think about things before responding and I give myself that time. So I do think there's a little bit of a distinction there.

Good distinction.

Yeah,

Yeah, good distinction.

What about if it's a phone

definitely.

call? Do you all have that quick little custom text where you're like, I'm on the other line, I'll call you right back? Do you all do that? ⁓

Not always.

No, you

Who

phone calls? Who phone calls? That's hilarious.

can do that? I didn't know that. ⁓

No, but I know, Andrea, you do, because I see the same generic message

Just me, just me.

if I call that.

Yeah, right. That is, that's the one thing I said, like, I feel I need to hit it so that they know I am acknowledging I see you're calling, but I'm busy.

Yeah, I

think that's nice. I think that's nice.

See, this is where

Thank you.

I

used to be, which is I want to be the good girl. I don't want to upset anybody. I don't want to rock the boat. I better be on top of everything. Micro-managing queen. That's who I used to be. Now it's like, unless it's my mom or my brother, nothing personal, ladies, unless it's my mom or my brother, it's like, I'm busy or I'm doing something. I will get to it as soon as I can. And that's me taking care of me and having healthy boundaries about what I'm doing and not being like, I need to take care of everybody else first.

Right, right.

you

Mm-hmm

Mm-hmm.

Bye.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Immediately.

Right.

⁓

I love that. Okay, two more spending money on yourself without explaining it to No, buy what I want. well Interesting that is so interesting for the listeners the four of us who are not married all said Nope, we do what we want when we want and Laurie is married and and you know what? Wow, that's a different and you've been married for 30 years so

⁓ no explaining.

Hi, 30 year marriage.

⁓ married.

Well, you're married, that might

Yeah.

be preference for you, right?

Hehehehe

Yeah, that makes sense.

Spending whatever I want. That's a no.

Little envy for you.

That's true.

That makes sense, Lori.

My assumption, I don't know this, I think we did talk about, but I can't quite remember. More couples our age at this point put finances together, right? So you're responsible for each other's what is coming out the account, right? It's not just a free for all. It's ours. Yes.

It's ours. It is ours. And so we

just have a rule, no purchases over 300 bucks without a conversation. It's simple. It's integrity. Yeah.

There you go. That's a great idea.

Agreements do beautiful things in a relationship.

Yeah, absolutely.

Love it. She's got financial integrity.

Yes. Yes. Okay. Last one. Mm-hmm. Yes. Okay. Last one.

Yes. Well, no, integrity to the relationship, right? Like, do you just, yeah.

Both. It's integrity

to our money and integrity to each other. exactly. Yes. Go Andrea.

Both ends. Yep.

Yeah.

Okay. Last one. Prioritize. Last one. Prioritizing piece of her being right in an argument. Whoa. ⁓ I'm still a gotta get the last word in kind of girl. Why can't

boy. No, I cannot. I cannot.

I need to, I'm out. ⁓ Yeah.

Still struggle with this one a little bit.

It's a both.

Yeah.

Yees, that is the key to peace.

Karen, why do you struggle?

I feel if there's a disagreement often that I need to explain my position and that we're not okay until we agree. You know, like I think I'm still working on being able to say we disagree and we can leave it at a disagreement. I think sometimes I feel stress over that. Like I feel like we, what,

Mm-hmm.

That's your piece.

Mm-hmm.

like we have to meet in the middle or we have to come to, and let's face it, sometimes you just don't agree on certain things.

Yeah.

Can

it be you both understand each other's perspective? Would that be settling enough? Or does it have to be agree? Like have the same philosophy?

Yeah.

You know what,

it depends what the issue is, but I think, you know, I know there have been times that I have struggled with leaving things at, you know, that, well, we agree to disagree, you know, that for some reason it just, it's hard for me. Yeah. Yeah.

that's a bit passive. Yeah.

Not for some reason. That's not for some reason.

It is.

That's appropriate for that to cause you dis-ease because it points to the potential that there isn't actual alignment. If you don't agree philosophically with your partner, that could be fine, agree to disagree, or it could be totally not fine. So that's not peace, right? You're not choosing peace by being okay with that disagreement.

Yeah.

Mmm.

Right.

Correct. Correct.

Right, right.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Right. And I think that's why

I say it depends on what the issue is. There are little things where that might be fine, and there are bigger things where you need that alignment. So I do feel it kind of depends.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

I

always say in any relationship.

And I think it's also,

⁓ sorry, go ahead.

I have a saying relationships ⁓ that you want to aim to just as Laurie mentioned beautifully alignment versus agreement, right? Because if you don't agree on a particular subject, that's okay. You're bringing your own perspective and your own felt sense of what it's like to do whatever it is that you're arguing about, right? And alignment just means it's, I think alignment is tied to your core values as a couple.

Right? So as in couple partnership, we tend to want to stay aligned to the core values and be okay with disagreeing. But I think being right is different. Because I think being right is, I think it's coming from a different place. I would venture to say that I need to be right means I need to protect myself because I don't feel safe for whatever reason. It may not necessarily have anything to do with your partner. It might most likely is.

Mm-hmm.

you

Yeah.

Got

it.

interesting.

something that's within you that's feeling unsettled and you just have to be right because you look at things very much in right or wrong perspective or lens. And I often say every time you do that, and when you're right, you have to make somebody wrong and you're making your partner wrong. Now you're enemies. Now you're no longer in collaboration. And when you're not in collaboration, now the partnership starts to have a ⁓

Yeah, it's a deflection. That's a good point.

Yeah, yeah,

yeah.

No bueno.

Yeah.

you know, a little sever or a little crack.

Yeah, yeah, and I was just going to add real quick that there's also that really fine line of the people pleasing line, right, where we don't want to be too much like where we constantly are like, no, you're right. You're right. Just to keep the peace because then you are a little bit abandoning yourself, right, and giving into that people pleasing so much. So it's a it's balance. It's a hard dance, as we said, is a hard dance.

our dance.

Well, all right with that, our legs are closed. I really liked that actually that game that gave us some really great conversation and insight. So I love that. So to the listeners out there, has your confidence shifted in midlife? Have you found yourself caring less about approval and more about authenticity? We would love to hear your story. You can find us on Instagram and TikTok at menopause. Love Lounge.

Mm-hmm.

You can email us at theladiesatmenopauselovelounge.com. We absolutely love hearing from you guys and also full videos on YouTube. We look so good and using our paddles and we're funny faces, especially Lori gives me such ⁓ entertainment. watch it. Great faces.

Hahaha.

great faces. And by the way, I need

those faces for the thumbnails.

Yeah, you do. ⁓ yeah, so join us on YouTube guys, comment, like, subscribe. Really, they're really great videos on YouTube. So check it out. Send us a DM, voice note, tell us what you are stopping performing for and what freedom that's created in your life. All right. That's it, ladies. I hope you guys have a great confident week. And that we have, I love seeing you guys, you bring confidence to me. So thank you.

Really?

Yes.

Hmm

Love

ya!

All right, you guys,

till then, bye bye. Toodles.

toodles.

Bye

bye.