Bishop Julius C. Trimble is the Resident Bishop of the Indiana Area of the United Methodist Church.

Bishop Trimble has the personal mission to encourage all people with the love of Jesus Christ to rise to their highest potential. It is his commitment to his personal mission that led Bishop Trimble to create the “To Be Encouraged” Podcast along with co-host Rev.Dr. Brad Miller.

Bishop Trimble says, “I am compelled by Jesus to share with you an encouraging word or two about Jesus, theology, the Bible, the pandemic, the environment, racism, voting rights, human sexuality, and the state of the United Methodist Church.”

To Be Encouraged with Bishop Julius C. Trimble is to be published weekly and is available at www.tobeencouraged.com and all the podcast directories.

https://www.inumc.org/bishop/office-of-the-bishop/

Welcome to episode 094 of To Be Encouraged with Bishop Julius C. Trimble and Rev. Dr. Brad Miller. In this two-part series, we dive into the Disaffiliation Dilemma in the United Methodist Church, focusing on the particular case of the Madison North United Methodist Church in Madison, Indiana. Episode 094 is part 2 in the series. In this episode we explore the impact of disaffiliation, likening it to a divorce and custody battle, and how the church is navigating recovery and finding hope for the future.

Joined by guest Rev. Tracey Leslie, from the Indiana Annual Conference Staff and Tanya Hess from the North Madison United Methodist Church, we discuss the emotional aftermath of the vote for disaffiliation and the challenges the church faced in continuing its ministry, including a particularly meaningful story about a donut stand ministry at the county fair. We also explore how the church dealt with the analogy of divorce and custody battle, and how they are working to redefine their narrative and find hope for the future.

Bishop Julius C Trimble weighs in with insightful commentary, offering words of encouragement and hope for churches facing similar challenges. Join us as we delve into this difficult yet ultimately uplifting story of resilience and faith, and learn how one church is finding new purpose and determination in the face of adversity.

Rev. Tracey Leslie <tracey.leslie@inumc.org>;

Tanya Hess <tarhess@msn.com>

The Disaffiliation Dilemma in 1

Local United Methodist Church.

Part 2, divorce, custody,

recovery, and encouragement for a hopeful

future. Here on episode number 94

of the 2 be encouraged podcast

with Bishop Julius C Trimble.

You are welcome to be encouraged

with Bishop Julius C Trimble.

Bishop Trimble is on a mission to encourage you

with the love of Jesus Christ so you can

rise to your highest potential.

On to be encouraged, Bishop Trimble speaks to a

discouraged world with a good word

on the pandemic, racism, the environment,

human sexuality, and the state of the church with

a focus on centering your life

on the love of Jesus Christ. Has there

ever been a more needed time for an

encouraging word to our world. This

is your time to rise to your greatest

potential and to be encouraged with Bishop

Julius C. Trimble.

Hello, good people, and welcome to to be

encouraged with Bishop Julius c Trimble.

This is the podcast where we look to offer an encouraging

word on an often discouraged world.

I am your cohost, reverend doctor Brad Miller. Here

on episode 94 of to be encouraged,

we continue a conversation that we began on

episode number 93. This is this part 2 of a 2 part conversation

around disaffiliation in the United

Methodist Church as particularly exemplified in the case

of one local United Methodist Church,

the Madison North United Methodist Church in Madison, Indiana.

Today, in in our last episode, episode 94, we talked

about the process of of discernment,

some of the discouraging aspects of that, the divorce that

really takes place when the vote for

disaffiliation occurs. And today on episode or part 2

of this 2 part episode, episode 94, We're

talking about the impact of divorce

at a local church. We're gonna talk about a custody battle, in

particular, the context of a donut stand that this local church had,

the recovery process, and some

encouraging words for a hopeful future. The

context of our conversation is

with 2 wonderful persons connected to

the conversation around disaffiliation

at 1 local United Methodist Church North UMC in Madison, Indiana.

We have with us as our guest today on the podcast,

reverend Tracy Leslie. She's a staff person

related to innovation, engagement, and development

in the Indiana Conference of United Methodist Church. And among the things

in our portfolio is helping churches to navigate

these conversations around disaffiliation

and to help them in recovery process to happen.

And we're also privileged and really blessed to have with us Tanya Hess, a devoted

layperson from the North Madison United Methodist Church. She

really pours her heart out in this episode and the prior episode

in terms of what really happened kind of in a really, really

detailed manner in that local church. There's a real

value in hearing this conversation in regards to how that

relates to United Methodist Churches going through

this process, the impact upon those

churches, the impact upon our denomination in terms of our effectiveness

and our value moving forward, and how it can be very helpful to

local church clergy and devoted laypeople who care, who care

deeply about the mission of making disciples

of Jesus Christ for the transformation of the world, and who care about their local

church and their community. So today, we're gonna talk about the context of

the disaffiliation dilemma. The

conversation took place in this one particular United Methodist

Church. And Bishop Trimble then speaks to this in several

different questions that we address here today. This interview is done

in narrative style, which means I interviewed, Tracy

and Tanya. And then later on, Bishop, Trimble

gave his input. And so that's how it is edited together, in case

you, have some questions about how how we did this.

The context here is that a conversation

took place in the church regarding

disaffiliation, and they went through the entire process,

went through the vote, and much of our previous episode was about the

voting process itself. In the end, the

church, by just a few votes, voted to

remain a United Methodist Church.

However, the implication of that the impact of that was

is that the church split. And some other folks went

with the pastor to create a new congregation. A new

pastor was brought in to serve the North United

Methodist Church. But the implications do not start with

those, the impact, the implications do not stop with those

facts. What do you do then with the mission and ministry of the church?

And that's the process of our conversation here. Where we

left our conversation, we talked about some of the confusion and some of

the pain and some of the agony of going through the vote and the

decisions about that. In this upcoming,

conversation we're gonna have, we're gonna focus more on the particular

mission and ministry of the church right now

and moving forward. And we use the analogy, I think it's applicable

of a divorce and a custody battle. So we're gonna

get into the conversation here now as we begin the conversation talking

around one of the important ministries of the North

Madison United Methodist Church, the donut stand they

had at their county fair. Let's join the conversation.

Our county fair in July, the this church has

a concession stand at the donut fair.

It's a very long history. It's been there since 1962,

first started as a tent, but now it's it's grown into a large

concession stand. And it was a large, fundraiser and

community outreach for our church. Yeah. We are known for our

donuts. Yes. And so you have those kinds

of situations. Right? Because then that was not long after the

vote. And so the folks that remained there with the church, you know,

it was a difficult emotional decision to

determine, did they continue to do the donut

stand with the folks who had left,

who who then went with the pastor who also left and actually

formed their own church? So, you know, did they, did

they reunite with those folks to do the donut stand or did they

try to struggle to do it on their own? Did they there was an

offer, actually, a very gracious offer from another United Methodist Church not

too far away. That pastor said, you know, our folks will help at the

donut stand if you would like us to do that. But those are the kinds

of things, right, that are just very emotionally charged that we don't always think

about. This doesn't end with the vote. Okay.

How how painful and truthful that disaffiliation

doesn't end with the vote. And there I can think of many

stories. And, when I served in Iowa, we had several

churches, that also had stands

at the state fair major for many, many

years. And so to have, something that's been a

long tradition of the church that involved people working together

in the community and and gave the church a good name at,

at county fair or state fair, that that really,

really is painful. How do you how do you go forward with it? I'd be

interested to know how they decided to go forward with it. But it

certainly is a case where, you know, maybe there's a way to

still work with people for something like that on the behalf of the community.

But these are examples of of how emotionally

charged and how deep some of the

some of the wounds can be when there's a split, a

formal split of a congre it's different when an individual

chooses to leave over theology or

or or politics or or personality or

doesn't like the pastor, but it's a whole different thing. If the pastor

leads part of the congregation away or or

if there's a close vote and people have been engaged

in an outreach ministry that literally has blessed

others and given a good name to the church.

Any person who's gone through a marital

divorce and a custody battle related

to the children of that marriage knows how excruciatingly

painful and divisive that experience is.

The same emotions are taking place here in this particular local

church and played out in many, many, many other churches, indeed,

in our entire denomination as we talk about the disaffiliation

divorce and the impact of it moving forward.

Hear now this story around the donut stand that this

particular local church had at their county fair and how that led

to some real tension and some real angst that needed

to be dealt with, and how prayer was a part of the

process interjected into the process to help the

all parties to deal with the divorce

and the custody matter of doing and of its

implications, for for during ministry moving forward.

A week after the vote, and we're still, you know, stunned in shock

because this is basically a divorce. Yeah. You know, our church went through a a

divorce. And that I mean, I'm just keeping it real here. That's what it was.

Yeah. And so if you can imagine, we were in our church

basement and members from, you know, both sides now

were sitting around, you know, large grouping of tables

and basically were, you know, going through a divorce. And our 2

attorneys was the shepherding pastor and our conference superintendent.

And it got heated 3 or 4 times, if you can imagine,

pushed through. We did not want to lose this. We did not want

to, you know, stop this community outreach. You know,

we're we're gonna do it. And, so our conference

superintendent, you know, got muted 3 or 4 times, and she

broke us up to pray 3 or 4 times. That's how, you know,

heated it was getting. Wow. But we, made payments. The

It's in there. Yeah. The divorce was, who gets the

baby? The it was the donut stand. The donut stand. We, held

joint custody last year. We worked we worked through it. I mean,

we worked through it. We, and, you know, that's

Wow. It sounds like the wisdom of Solomon,

but but I don't know what to say,

situation like that. You know, what do you do over the course

of time? I believe the superintendent's wisdom

to break people up in prayer is always in order.

And prayer may not result in immediate healing, but

it is a directed direction to remind

people of whose we are and also remind us of who

we are in relation to one another. So my

prayer is that even though there may be difficult situations

where we have shared an outreach ministry, that we can find

ways not only to be civil, but to be compassionate and

and really Christian towards one another as we decide

how to live in the midst of following a

divorce. Mhmm. And as it was aptly just described,

that's exactly what this affiliation has been for many

congregations.

In order for a family to rebuild life after

divorce and a custody battle, some new

stories have to be told. In this section,

pastor Tracy leads us through the process of the Madison

North congregation telling their story of what works,

retelling their story, and envisioning a new future

because everything has to evolve

in order for ministry to take place and to be effective

and impactful moving forward. So in terms

of other resources, as I said, I have at Madison North

and I go into churches. And as I said, I, I have

a lot of background around narrative and story. I'm

also a certified spiritual director. And so my

work, a lot of the work that I do is unearthing. What are the stories

this congregation is? And really getting to the core,

I use the story of of Abram and the beginning

of his journey. And when he sets up the stone and

worship Scott, who's encountered him on his journey. And I

talk with congregations about where are the places where

you have, where God has encountered you on your

journey over the years that you have been a church

together. And then how do you mark those spaces of

Encouraged, and what should they look like? And then from

that and vision into the future,

Because I do believe that although the way that our

identity and our call manifests, it has

to evolve over time. Right? If we're still doing the same thing that we were

doing in 1950, you know, we're in trouble.

We are in trouble if we think that the church is gonna return

to some form of greatness prior to this

affiliation or prior to the pandemic.

God is always doing a new thing as as we know from reading,

the book of Jeremiah and the book of Isaiah. God is

always doing a new thing. And so we should be

asking, how can we live into that news thing? I'm

really hopeful that not only tri reverend Tracy Leslie, but

others will, be able to help congregations embrace their

new narrative. Not name we don't need to abandon our

history, of the congregations that have been in our

communities for over a 175 plus years.

But how do we embrace a new narrative of what god is calling us for

this present age in our communities.

I would recommend people embrace an opportunity to

connect with children matter most, embrace an opportunity

for, working with Reverend Tracy Leslie around what

is your narrative, how do you embrace and celebrate stories and the

stories of your congregation and the individual stories we

bring together? So we have a lot of work to do, but there's two ways

to look at it. Either we we are just focusing on a problem to be

fixed or either a new day that God has new ministry

for us to engage in.

After the mess of a divorce and the

excruciating pain of the custody battle, the

question remains, where do we go from here?

What holds true in a family going through divorce certainly holds true in a

congregation going through the divorce, the custody battle,

and now the recovery process. Is there a hope? Is

there a future? Is there something to be encouraged about? I really

want you to listen carefully to what Tanya has

shares about her experience at Madison North United Methodist

Church, how the church is pulling together

in a tighter, closer knit, connected way in

order to do ministry together as there's no

place else that she'd rather be.

Well, we're a much tighter community now. Tracy did work with

us, and we've kind of been burying our souls and getting to

know each other much, much better. We're a smaller group, and

Tracy worked with us on a class. Her companions

actually, I have your book here, Tracy. I'll plug it. Companions on a Journey.

Because, we're all we're all walking, you know, we're

all walking each other home. So we've we're

we're working. We have a new new pastor. Even though, we

had lost our previous pastor, we were not without someone

in the pulpit and for for many, for many

months, but now we have a new a new pastor. And,

we're very excited for the future. And, but,

going forward, I we're also gonna be more in connection with,

our other local United Methodist churches, was that from the

time I arrived there, I could see that although these folks had been

wounded by this, that that they did not wanna just sit around

and lick their wounds, that they were ready to go.

They wanted to reach into their community. They

wanted to do the work that Christ is calling them to do.

And so as as we talk about the title of this

podcast See. Well, I'm, you know, it's it's important to know

your scripture, to be, you know, with Trimble studies, to know your creeds.

But how you act your faith and what you do with that knowledge just feels

is most important. And, with typical United Methodist

fashion, we're rolling up our sleeves. We're getting the job done.

And and I, you know, I've always been impressed about the history and

heritage to The United Methodist Church. And I just feel to be Encouraged.

We are the denomination. We're we're doing it right. And

I'm I feel it's it's with open hearts, open minds, and open doors.

It it it's the church for me. Awesome.

Well, well, I don't apologize for being United Methodist. I C it all the

time. I'm Methodist born, United Methodist bred, and then I die.

United Methodist dead. I think we should be Encouraged, and I wanna

thank reverend Tracy Leslie. I wish I could I wish I

could, clone her and make multiple,

persons who bring the giftedness and the enthusiasm for connecting

disconnected people, not just to United Methodist Church, but

to their faith journey. I also wanna take thank

Tanya because, it it it it takes courage and

commitment to share, the insight

of what it looks like when a church is going through

discernment and disaffiliation and to stake your

ground on what you believe is for you and for me, I

would say the best of all Protestant possibilities. I don't

disparage other congregations or other denominations. I just

believe that the United Methodist Church is a place

for people, no matter where they come from, no matter who they are,

no matter what station of life they're in. We are a church

that not only believes in Jesus and the triune God, but believes

that we ought to be welcoming and engaging in

ministry with the people in our communities. So I

I wanna give a big shout out. I'm encouraged by Tanya

Hess and by the reverend Tracy Leslie for their

witness. I hope others will listen to this,

podcast and know that you can reach out to the Indiana

United Methodist Conference and also find support in

the connectional church. There's no excuse

for us to walk these difficult journeys by ourselves

or in isolation. I have been praying for the

cabinet has been praying for all of the churches in the

Indiana conference, and we pray for all of the churches across the

globe, who are proclaiming Jesus Christ as

lord and feeding people who are physically hungry and

spiritually hungry as well. So I'm encouraged, and I hope others will

be encouraged even hearing this challenging and

difficult story of how churches have experienced

disaffiliation. What a

powerful witness and words of encouragement

we heard here from Bishop Trimble, to be

sure, and also Tracy Leslie,

but particularly from Tanya Hess,

the layperson from Madison North United Methodist Church. And I hope you

heard her words, and I hope you take it to heart. If you

are a United Methodist clergy person or a devoted layperson,

if your church is going through the conversation around the

disaffiliation dilemma, Hear what

this one church is doing after they've gone through the painful divorce and

the custody battle and all the ramifications

personally and personally that took place,

where are they at now? Are they a body of encouraged? Are

they a defeated group of people? I did not

hear a defeated language from Tanya.

I heard her say that they are a tighter,

more connected congregation, and they're getting after

it. The words she uses, we're rolling up our sleeves and we're getting to work.

She talked about the history of that church, the history of United

Methodism, of Wesleyan Theology, and how important it is and

how they are more focused and more engaged

about what they are doing to actually serve their community and

to carry out the mission of making disciples of Jesus

Christ in their world and their community.

In the end, what she said I thought was so cool,

we're doing it right, and this is the church for me.

I know that's the case for myself as well and for Bishop Trimble as

well, and we are here to be an encouraging word

for you. We hope that you have benefited from

this 2 part, episode, this 2 part,

episode on the dilemma regarding disaffiliation,

and we'll go back to episode number 93 to

take part of the understanding of the divorce conversation

that takes place in a local church. And that this episode 94 was

helpful to give you an encouraging word moving

forward about how one church is getting to work in order

to do the mission of the church. The

mission of the to be encouraged podcast is indeed

to offer an encouraging word to an often

discouraged world, And we do know that one of

the discouraging factors in our United Methodist Church for several years and

with general conference upcoming is certainly is a a

front of mind is a disaffiliation conversation.

But it does not have to lead to the demise

of your mission and your ministry as a local clergy person

or as a local church, the impact of your

local church or as a local church layperson. We

can C it and reframe it and under understand that

even out of the pain of divorce and the ugliness of, of a

custody battle, a new day can be upon us, and a new

opportunity can exist to do Bishop that is leaner and more

effective and impactful in our communities. I

expect to hear great things out of the Madison North United Methodist

Church because of the devotion of people like Tanya Hess,

And I'm certainly thankful that we have staff people like

reverend C Leslie who are devoted to helping churches

reframe and tell their stories and to heal spiritually

and emotionally and interpersonal dynamics. I'm thankful for the conference

superintendent who stepped in to offer prayer in a time

of conflict, and I'm thankful for Bishop Julius c Trimble who

is all about offering an encouraging and helpful word

to local congregations and to you, my friend, the local

church United Methodist Church pastor and the local church

devoted layperson who needs an encouraging word in an

often discouraged world. That is our

purpose. That is our focus here, to do to

offer an encouraging word. So until next time, friends,

speaking for Bishop Julius c Trimble, I am

reverend doctor Brad Miller, encouraging you to

always do all the good that you

can. Consider

yourself encouraged and

appreciated for listening to be encouraged

with Bishop Julius c Trimble. Now, please

share the blessing and encourage others in your life to listen,

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That's tobeencour C,

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your part to bring a good word to a

discouraged world. Remember to listen next week, to be

encouraged with Bishop Julius C. Trimble, and never forget,

God loves you, and there's nothing you can do about

it.