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"The Disaffiliation Dilemma in A Local United Methodist Church" Part 2 Divorce, Custody, Recovery, Encouragement and A Hopeful Future
Episode 9423rd February 2024 • Be Encouraged with Bishop Julius C. Trimble • Bishop Julius C. Trimble
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Bishop Julius C. Trimble is the Resident Bishop of the Indiana Area of the United Methodist Church.

Bishop Trimble has the personal mission to encourage all people with the love of Jesus Christ to rise to their highest potential. It is his commitment to his personal mission that led Bishop Trimble to create the “To Be Encouraged” Podcast along with co-host Rev.Dr. Brad Miller.

Bishop Trimble says, “I am compelled by Jesus to share with you an encouraging word or two about Jesus, theology, the Bible, the pandemic, the environment, racism, voting rights, human sexuality, and the state of the United Methodist Church.”

To Be Encouraged with Bishop Julius C. Trimble is to be published weekly and is available at www.tobeencouraged.com and all the podcast directories.

https://www.inumc.org/bishop/office-of-the-bishop/

Welcome to episode 094 of To Be Encouraged with Bishop Julius C. Trimble and Rev. Dr. Brad Miller. In this two-part series, we dive into the Disaffiliation Dilemma in the United Methodist Church, focusing on the particular case of the Madison North United Methodist Church in Madison, Indiana. Episode 094 is part 2 in the series. In this episode we explore the impact of disaffiliation, likening it to a divorce and custody battle, and how the church is navigating recovery and finding hope for the future.

Joined by guest Rev. Tracey Leslie, from the Indiana Annual Conference Staff and Tanya Hess from the North Madison United Methodist Church, we discuss the emotional aftermath of the vote for disaffiliation and the challenges the church faced in continuing its ministry, including a particularly meaningful story about a donut stand ministry at the county fair. We also explore how the church dealt with the analogy of divorce and custody battle, and how they are working to redefine their narrative and find hope for the future.

Bishop Julius C Trimble weighs in with insightful commentary, offering words of encouragement and hope for churches facing similar challenges. Join us as we delve into this difficult yet ultimately uplifting story of resilience and faith, and learn how one church is finding new purpose and determination in the face of adversity.

Rev. Tracey Leslie <tracey.leslie@inumc.org>;

Tanya Hess <tarhess@msn.com>

Transcripts

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The Disaffiliation Dilemma in 1

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Local United Methodist Church.

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Part 2, divorce, custody,

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recovery, and encouragement for a hopeful

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future. Here on episode number 94

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of the 2 be encouraged podcast

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with Bishop Julius C Trimble.

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You are welcome to be encouraged

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with Bishop Julius C Trimble.

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Bishop Trimble is on a mission to encourage you

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with the love of Jesus Christ so you can

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rise to your highest potential.

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On to be encouraged, Bishop Trimble speaks to a

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discouraged world with a good word

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on the pandemic, racism, the environment,

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human sexuality, and the state of the church with

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a focus on centering your life

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on the love of Jesus Christ. Has there

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ever been a more needed time for an

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encouraging word to our world. This

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is your time to rise to your greatest

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potential and to be encouraged with Bishop

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Julius C. Trimble.

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Hello, good people, and welcome to to be

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encouraged with Bishop Julius c Trimble.

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This is the podcast where we look to offer an encouraging

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word on an often discouraged world.

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I am your cohost, reverend doctor Brad Miller. Here

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on episode 94 of to be encouraged,

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we continue a conversation that we began on

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episode number 93. This is this part 2 of a 2 part conversation

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around disaffiliation in the United

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Methodist Church as particularly exemplified in the case

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of one local United Methodist Church,

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the Madison North United Methodist Church in Madison, Indiana.

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Today, in in our last episode, episode 94, we talked

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about the process of of discernment,

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some of the discouraging aspects of that, the divorce that

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really takes place when the vote for

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disaffiliation occurs. And today on episode or part 2

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of this 2 part episode, episode 94, We're

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talking about the impact of divorce

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at a local church. We're gonna talk about a custody battle, in

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particular, the context of a donut stand that this local church had,

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the recovery process, and some

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encouraging words for a hopeful future. The

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context of our conversation is

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with 2 wonderful persons connected to

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the conversation around disaffiliation

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at 1 local United Methodist Church North UMC in Madison, Indiana.

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We have with us as our guest today on the podcast,

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reverend Tracy Leslie. She's a staff person

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related to innovation, engagement, and development

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in the Indiana Conference of United Methodist Church. And among the things

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in our portfolio is helping churches to navigate

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these conversations around disaffiliation

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and to help them in recovery process to happen.

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And we're also privileged and really blessed to have with us Tanya Hess, a devoted

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layperson from the North Madison United Methodist Church. She

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really pours her heart out in this episode and the prior episode

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in terms of what really happened kind of in a really, really

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detailed manner in that local church. There's a real

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value in hearing this conversation in regards to how that

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relates to United Methodist Churches going through

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this process, the impact upon those

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churches, the impact upon our denomination in terms of our effectiveness

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and our value moving forward, and how it can be very helpful to

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local church clergy and devoted laypeople who care, who care

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deeply about the mission of making disciples

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of Jesus Christ for the transformation of the world, and who care about their local

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church and their community. So today, we're gonna talk about the context of

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the disaffiliation dilemma. The

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conversation took place in this one particular United Methodist

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Church. And Bishop Trimble then speaks to this in several

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different questions that we address here today. This interview is done

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in narrative style, which means I interviewed, Tracy

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and Tanya. And then later on, Bishop, Trimble

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gave his input. And so that's how it is edited together, in case

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you, have some questions about how how we did this.

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The context here is that a conversation

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took place in the church regarding

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disaffiliation, and they went through the entire process,

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went through the vote, and much of our previous episode was about the

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voting process itself. In the end, the

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church, by just a few votes, voted to

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remain a United Methodist Church.

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However, the implication of that the impact of that was

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is that the church split. And some other folks went

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with the pastor to create a new congregation. A new

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pastor was brought in to serve the North United

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Methodist Church. But the implications do not start with

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those, the impact, the implications do not stop with those

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facts. What do you do then with the mission and ministry of the church?

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And that's the process of our conversation here. Where we

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left our conversation, we talked about some of the confusion and some of

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the pain and some of the agony of going through the vote and the

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decisions about that. In this upcoming,

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conversation we're gonna have, we're gonna focus more on the particular

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mission and ministry of the church right now

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and moving forward. And we use the analogy, I think it's applicable

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of a divorce and a custody battle. So we're gonna

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get into the conversation here now as we begin the conversation talking

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around one of the important ministries of the North

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Madison United Methodist Church, the donut stand they

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had at their county fair. Let's join the conversation.

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Our county fair in July, the this church has

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a concession stand at the donut fair.

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It's a very long history. It's been there since 1962,

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first started as a tent, but now it's it's grown into a large

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concession stand. And it was a large, fundraiser and

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community outreach for our church. Yeah. We are known for our

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donuts. Yes. And so you have those kinds

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of situations. Right? Because then that was not long after the

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vote. And so the folks that remained there with the church, you know,

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it was a difficult emotional decision to

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determine, did they continue to do the donut

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stand with the folks who had left,

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who who then went with the pastor who also left and actually

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formed their own church? So, you know, did they, did

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they reunite with those folks to do the donut stand or did they

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try to struggle to do it on their own? Did they there was an

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offer, actually, a very gracious offer from another United Methodist Church not

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too far away. That pastor said, you know, our folks will help at the

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donut stand if you would like us to do that. But those are the kinds

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of things, right, that are just very emotionally charged that we don't always think

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about. This doesn't end with the vote. Okay.

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How how painful and truthful that disaffiliation

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doesn't end with the vote. And there I can think of many

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stories. And, when I served in Iowa, we had several

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churches, that also had stands

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at the state fair major for many, many

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years. And so to have, something that's been a

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long tradition of the church that involved people working together

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in the community and and gave the church a good name at,

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at county fair or state fair, that that really,

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really is painful. How do you how do you go forward with it? I'd be

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interested to know how they decided to go forward with it. But it

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certainly is a case where, you know, maybe there's a way to

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still work with people for something like that on the behalf of the community.

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But these are examples of of how emotionally

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charged and how deep some of the

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some of the wounds can be when there's a split, a

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formal split of a congre it's different when an individual

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chooses to leave over theology or

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or or politics or or personality or

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doesn't like the pastor, but it's a whole different thing. If the pastor

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leads part of the congregation away or or

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if there's a close vote and people have been engaged

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in an outreach ministry that literally has blessed

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others and given a good name to the church.

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Any person who's gone through a marital

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divorce and a custody battle related

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to the children of that marriage knows how excruciatingly

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painful and divisive that experience is.

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The same emotions are taking place here in this particular local

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church and played out in many, many, many other churches, indeed,

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in our entire denomination as we talk about the disaffiliation

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divorce and the impact of it moving forward.

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Hear now this story around the donut stand that this

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particular local church had at their county fair and how that led

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to some real tension and some real angst that needed

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to be dealt with, and how prayer was a part of the

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process interjected into the process to help the

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all parties to deal with the divorce

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and the custody matter of doing and of its

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implications, for for during ministry moving forward.

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A week after the vote, and we're still, you know, stunned in shock

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because this is basically a divorce. Yeah. You know, our church went through a a

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divorce. And that I mean, I'm just keeping it real here. That's what it was.

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Yeah. And so if you can imagine, we were in our church

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basement and members from, you know, both sides now

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were sitting around, you know, large grouping of tables

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and basically were, you know, going through a divorce. And our 2

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attorneys was the shepherding pastor and our conference superintendent.

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And it got heated 3 or 4 times, if you can imagine,

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pushed through. We did not want to lose this. We did not want

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to, you know, stop this community outreach. You know,

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we're we're gonna do it. And, so our conference

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superintendent, you know, got muted 3 or 4 times, and she

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broke us up to pray 3 or 4 times. That's how, you know,

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heated it was getting. Wow. But we, made payments. The

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It's in there. Yeah. The divorce was, who gets the

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baby? The it was the donut stand. The donut stand. We, held

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joint custody last year. We worked we worked through it. I mean,

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we worked through it. We, and, you know, that's

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Wow. It sounds like the wisdom of Solomon,

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but but I don't know what to say,

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situation like that. You know, what do you do over the course

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of time? I believe the superintendent's wisdom

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to break people up in prayer is always in order.

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And prayer may not result in immediate healing, but

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it is a directed direction to remind

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people of whose we are and also remind us of who

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we are in relation to one another. So my

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prayer is that even though there may be difficult situations

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where we have shared an outreach ministry, that we can find

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ways not only to be civil, but to be compassionate and

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and really Christian towards one another as we decide

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how to live in the midst of following a

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divorce. Mhmm. And as it was aptly just described,

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that's exactly what this affiliation has been for many

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congregations.

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In order for a family to rebuild life after

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divorce and a custody battle, some new

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stories have to be told. In this section,

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pastor Tracy leads us through the process of the Madison

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North congregation telling their story of what works,

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retelling their story, and envisioning a new future

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because everything has to evolve

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in order for ministry to take place and to be effective

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and impactful moving forward. So in terms

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of other resources, as I said, I have at Madison North

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and I go into churches. And as I said, I, I have

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a lot of background around narrative and story. I'm

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also a certified spiritual director. And so my

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work, a lot of the work that I do is unearthing. What are the stories

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this congregation is? And really getting to the core,

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I use the story of of Abram and the beginning

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of his journey. And when he sets up the stone and

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worship Scott, who's encountered him on his journey. And I

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talk with congregations about where are the places where

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you have, where God has encountered you on your

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journey over the years that you have been a church

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together. And then how do you mark those spaces of

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Encouraged, and what should they look like? And then from

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that and vision into the future,

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Because I do believe that although the way that our

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identity and our call manifests, it has

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to evolve over time. Right? If we're still doing the same thing that we were

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doing in 1950, you know, we're in trouble.

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We are in trouble if we think that the church is gonna return

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to some form of greatness prior to this

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affiliation or prior to the pandemic.

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God is always doing a new thing as as we know from reading,

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the book of Jeremiah and the book of Isaiah. God is

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always doing a new thing. And so we should be

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asking, how can we live into that news thing? I'm

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really hopeful that not only tri reverend Tracy Leslie, but

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others will, be able to help congregations embrace their

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new narrative. Not name we don't need to abandon our

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history, of the congregations that have been in our

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communities for over a 175 plus years.

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But how do we embrace a new narrative of what god is calling us for

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this present age in our communities.

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I would recommend people embrace an opportunity to

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connect with children matter most, embrace an opportunity

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for, working with Reverend Tracy Leslie around what

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is your narrative, how do you embrace and celebrate stories and the

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stories of your congregation and the individual stories we

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bring together? So we have a lot of work to do, but there's two ways

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to look at it. Either we we are just focusing on a problem to be

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fixed or either a new day that God has new ministry

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for us to engage in.

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After the mess of a divorce and the

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excruciating pain of the custody battle, the

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question remains, where do we go from here?

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What holds true in a family going through divorce certainly holds true in a

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congregation going through the divorce, the custody battle,

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and now the recovery process. Is there a hope? Is

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there a future? Is there something to be encouraged about? I really

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want you to listen carefully to what Tanya has

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shares about her experience at Madison North United Methodist

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Church, how the church is pulling together

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in a tighter, closer knit, connected way in

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order to do ministry together as there's no

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place else that she'd rather be.

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Well, we're a much tighter community now. Tracy did work with

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us, and we've kind of been burying our souls and getting to

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know each other much, much better. We're a smaller group, and

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Tracy worked with us on a class. Her companions

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actually, I have your book here, Tracy. I'll plug it. Companions on a Journey.

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Because, we're all we're all walking, you know, we're

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all walking each other home. So we've we're

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we're working. We have a new new pastor. Even though, we

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had lost our previous pastor, we were not without someone

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in the pulpit and for for many, for many

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months, but now we have a new a new pastor. And,

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we're very excited for the future. And, but,

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going forward, I we're also gonna be more in connection with,

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our other local United Methodist churches, was that from the

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time I arrived there, I could see that although these folks had been

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wounded by this, that that they did not wanna just sit around

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and lick their wounds, that they were ready to go.

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They wanted to reach into their community. They

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wanted to do the work that Christ is calling them to do.

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And so as as we talk about the title of this

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podcast See. Well, I'm, you know, it's it's important to know

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your scripture, to be, you know, with Trimble studies, to know your creeds.

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But how you act your faith and what you do with that knowledge just feels

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is most important. And, with typical United Methodist

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fashion, we're rolling up our sleeves. We're getting the job done.

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And and I, you know, I've always been impressed about the history and

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heritage to The United Methodist Church. And I just feel to be Encouraged.

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We are the denomination. We're we're doing it right. And

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I'm I feel it's it's with open hearts, open minds, and open doors.

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It it it's the church for me. Awesome.

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Well, well, I don't apologize for being United Methodist. I C it all the

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time. I'm Methodist born, United Methodist bred, and then I die.

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United Methodist dead. I think we should be Encouraged, and I wanna

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thank reverend Tracy Leslie. I wish I could I wish I

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could, clone her and make multiple,

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persons who bring the giftedness and the enthusiasm for connecting

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disconnected people, not just to United Methodist Church, but

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to their faith journey. I also wanna take thank

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Tanya because, it it it it takes courage and

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commitment to share, the insight

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of what it looks like when a church is going through

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discernment and disaffiliation and to stake your

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ground on what you believe is for you and for me, I

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would say the best of all Protestant possibilities. I don't

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disparage other congregations or other denominations. I just

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believe that the United Methodist Church is a place

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for people, no matter where they come from, no matter who they are,

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no matter what station of life they're in. We are a church

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that not only believes in Jesus and the triune God, but believes

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that we ought to be welcoming and engaging in

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ministry with the people in our communities. So I

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I wanna give a big shout out. I'm encouraged by Tanya

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Hess and by the reverend Tracy Leslie for their

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witness. I hope others will listen to this,

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podcast and know that you can reach out to the Indiana

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United Methodist Conference and also find support in

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the connectional church. There's no excuse

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for us to walk these difficult journeys by ourselves

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or in isolation. I have been praying for the

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cabinet has been praying for all of the churches in the

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Indiana conference, and we pray for all of the churches across the

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globe, who are proclaiming Jesus Christ as

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lord and feeding people who are physically hungry and

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spiritually hungry as well. So I'm encouraged, and I hope others will

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be encouraged even hearing this challenging and

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difficult story of how churches have experienced

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disaffiliation. What a

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powerful witness and words of encouragement

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we heard here from Bishop Trimble, to be

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sure, and also Tracy Leslie,

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but particularly from Tanya Hess,

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the layperson from Madison North United Methodist Church. And I hope you

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heard her words, and I hope you take it to heart. If you

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are a United Methodist clergy person or a devoted layperson,

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if your church is going through the conversation around the

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disaffiliation dilemma, Hear what

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this one church is doing after they've gone through the painful divorce and

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the custody battle and all the ramifications

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personally and personally that took place,

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where are they at now? Are they a body of encouraged? Are

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they a defeated group of people? I did not

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hear a defeated language from Tanya.

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I heard her say that they are a tighter,

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more connected congregation, and they're getting after

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it. The words she uses, we're rolling up our sleeves and we're getting to work.

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She talked about the history of that church, the history of United

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Methodism, of Wesleyan Theology, and how important it is and

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how they are more focused and more engaged

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about what they are doing to actually serve their community and

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to carry out the mission of making disciples of Jesus

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Christ in their world and their community.

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In the end, what she said I thought was so cool,

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we're doing it right, and this is the church for me.

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I know that's the case for myself as well and for Bishop Trimble as

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well, and we are here to be an encouraging word

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for you. We hope that you have benefited from

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this 2 part, episode, this 2 part,

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episode on the dilemma regarding disaffiliation,

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and we'll go back to episode number 93 to

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take part of the understanding of the divorce conversation

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that takes place in a local church. And that this episode 94 was

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helpful to give you an encouraging word moving

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forward about how one church is getting to work in order

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to do the mission of the church. The

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mission of the to be encouraged podcast is indeed

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to offer an encouraging word to an often

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discouraged world, And we do know that one of

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the discouraging factors in our United Methodist Church for several years and

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with general conference upcoming is certainly is a a

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front of mind is a disaffiliation conversation.

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But it does not have to lead to the demise

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of your mission and your ministry as a local clergy person

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or as a local church, the impact of your

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local church or as a local church layperson. We

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can C it and reframe it and under understand that

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even out of the pain of divorce and the ugliness of, of a

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custody battle, a new day can be upon us, and a new

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opportunity can exist to do Bishop that is leaner and more

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effective and impactful in our communities. I

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expect to hear great things out of the Madison North United Methodist

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Church because of the devotion of people like Tanya Hess,

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And I'm certainly thankful that we have staff people like

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reverend C Leslie who are devoted to helping churches

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reframe and tell their stories and to heal spiritually

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and emotionally and interpersonal dynamics. I'm thankful for the conference

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superintendent who stepped in to offer prayer in a time

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of conflict, and I'm thankful for Bishop Julius c Trimble who

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is all about offering an encouraging and helpful word

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to local congregations and to you, my friend, the local

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church United Methodist Church pastor and the local church

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devoted layperson who needs an encouraging word in an

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often discouraged world. That is our

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purpose. That is our focus here, to do to

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offer an encouraging word. So until next time, friends,

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speaking for Bishop Julius c Trimble, I am

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reverend doctor Brad Miller, encouraging you to

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always do all the good that you

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can. Consider

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yourself encouraged and

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appreciated for listening to be encouraged

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with Bishop Julius c Trimble. Now, please

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share the blessing and encourage others in your life to listen,

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to be encouraged. You can do just that by pointing your

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people to the website to beencouraged.com.

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That's tobeencour C,

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or connect through Apple Podcast where you can

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follow, rate, and review to be encouraged

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with Bishop Julius c Trimble. When you do that, you're doing

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your part to bring a good word to a

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discouraged world. Remember to listen next week, to be

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encouraged with Bishop Julius C. Trimble, and never forget,

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God loves you, and there's nothing you can do about

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it.

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