In this episode of Be Epic, Matt sits down with Steve Nelson, co-founder of 3-D printing technology company Carbon, Inc and empowerment initiative Re Inc. Steve is an investor, entrepreneur and board member who shares his journey from IBM to Wakefield Group to launching several successful start-ups along with his recent move to Northwest Arkansas.

co-founder at Carbon Inc, and co-founder of Re

Inc. Steve has tremendous experience as a financier, as a

entrepreneur and as a leader, and he has lots of board

experience as well. Thank you so much, Steve, for joining me

today. I really appreciate it.

Matt. Delighted to have the conversation. Thanks so

much for including me.

You really have a tremendous background in so many

things. I know when you started your career, you were at IBM and

you were there for 14 years and left as vice president and

general manager. Rather than talk about the earlier days in

your career, I would like to start a little bit sooner. Start

by talking a little bit about your experience with Wakefield

Group as managing partner. And Wakefield is a venture capital

firm for those listening.

Sure, maybe we'll describe a little bit this whole

notion of Synchro destiny, which you and I have had some fun

conversations about before. But it was a bit fortunate for me

that I was with a person that was looking for somebody to kind

of come in and be the new Research Triangle Park, North

Carolina General Partner and ultimately to be the managing

general partner of the firm. And I ended up being in New York

City offering advice on folks that might be good. And then I

said, you know, if not for the fact that I love what I'm doing

in California, we're raising our children. They're only five and

seven, we have a great place, great lives. If not for that, I

might be interested. I was surprised to hear myself say it.

Surprised to get the question. I think they were surprised to

hear me say it. And they asked me to put my thoughts together

and fly to Charlotte, North Carolina. In this case, from the

Bay Area. I lived in East Bay and I lived and worked in

Silicon Valley, I guess for seven years. Before I knew it. I

was moving to North Carolina and I was basically asked to be the

managing general partner of Wakefield Group, which is a

private investment vehicle for an amazing family, the Spangler

family out of Charlotte. They'd be a first generation success

story that would have gone long in Charlotte banking. That thing

is now called Bank of America went long and building products.

So what long in a bunch of industries almost a Warren

Buffett of the South, just an incredible family. And I got

asked to be their person, that was an amazing 14-year almost

15-year run for me ultimately kind of covering private

investment. Think of it as more venture capital with some growth

equity investing in and around the southeast with a base and

Research Triangle Park. I learned enormously from my

partners, but enormously on the job by doing the job.

Still, it was a big change for you in many different

ways, not only in terms of location, but you had been

involved in IBM, you've been involved in a software company

Informix. And you'd been involved in a digital sports

media company, a tremendous experience. But this seemed to

be a bit of a change in terms of your path. Is that right? In my

I'd say in a way yes. But the last role that I

had, I jokingly referred to myself getting bigger and bigger

jobs and smaller and smaller companies from IBM to Informix

software to this fun little company called Quokka Sports

which was a digital sports company that ultimately went

public. In that role, I kind of learned that company creation

business, and I was the one that Quokka Sports, I joined that

thing. We had no money. I'm like thinking back on what was I

thinking? We had no money. Two lovely young children. I had no

way to pay myself. But somehow I wanted to be that first kind of

senior executive behind the co founders. And I was raising the

money. And ultimately, a great group called Accel Partners

became our lead investor. So I kind of learned the venture

business by being on the inside of a young company. And I kind

of saw it from the ground up. So I was on the other side. And I

often think that the best way to be in a lot of businesses is to

see it from different perspectives. So the fact that

I'd been a young company person, but maybe trained in big,

important companies, too. Before I knew it, I felt like I knew

the VC business pretty well. So all of a sudden, now I'm the one

when I joined Wakefield Group to try to assess it from the other

side and try to help it add value to the companies we decide

to go back to invest in.

Boy, that's so true. And you know, some of the

extremely successful business people I've interviewed on

podcasts, I've seen this as a pattern. You know, some people

want to stay in the same line of business or in the same vertical

or same function within a company. But sometimes, you

know, whether you're in a company getting different

functional experience, or going to other companies and seeing

things from different perspectives, it really gives

you an advantage in future years.

I completely agree. I mean, I jokingly think

of it as kind of forks in the road that you look at every

two to three years to assess whether you're learning,

growing, developing and still getting excited every day. And I

started thinking if it wasn't for the first path, I was at

IBM, as you said, for almost 15 years, the fact that I was

willing to join a Silicon Valley based software company, I didn't

have to do that either. And didn't have to take other

functions that IBM or other moves at IBM and you think of

your patchwork body of work is all based on kind of those

choices. In many ways. I think there's the choices we make that

are the most important thing. And for me, it's all about

vitality, learning, growing and getting energized and I always

do that when I'm growing and developing with amazing new

people where I think I can learn and contribute in some way.

I'd like to skip up to Carbon, the fun one. You

co-founded that in 2013. So you've been engaged there for

eight years. But would you tell us a little bit about that

story?

Yeah, it's a a joy that's still being told. And

it's amazing book instead of chapters were the next chapters

are still to be told as well. But I then ran this Wakefield

Group venture firm. So I felt like I had been in the company

creation business, trying to back people that wanted to

change the world. And I thought in many ways, it was like

America's great business that I had, that involved investment

judgment and company building skills. But I noticed that what

I loved the most about being an investor was helping the

companies because I felt like I go back to my IBM or Informix or

Quokka Sports days, I got a real joy out of being on the inside.

So I was invited by people that I knew, the people that I

invested in, people that we had actually had an investment in,

we called liquidity of technologies, taking a company

public. In fact, I was on the board, I was the lead investor,

I got drafted from and by the board to actually be the CEO for

18 months when we were making a leadership transition at the

time at the company. And one of my friends that I knew well from

liquidia said, Hey, we got this really cool 3D printing company

idea. Love to run it by you. Love to get your thoughts. Maybe

you want to be an investor, an advisor, launch president,

somehow get involved. And I'm like, well, this is like really

interesting. Tell me more. At the same time, I also had plenty

on so I wasn't really looking to do new things. And I guess, back

to my forks in a road, this might have been 2013 or

something like that. They kind of say overnight on a text

exchange, what do you think about coming to join us as one

of the four co-founders, two professors, a theoretical

physicist from Moscow State and me, and I didn't want to have

any sense of imperialism. I was going to be the CEO. But I

called myself in my own mind chief business guy. But these

were extraordinary people that I knew really well, so I knew who

I was getting into business with. But I also joined the

company at the time, we had $9,200 in the bank. We owed

lawyers $72,000. We had a printer made out of wood, and we

were going to try to change manufacturing worldwide. We

wanted to change the way things were made. And I knew how

extraordinary my partners were in many ways. I felt honored to

be their partners. So they built this first 3D printer for 200

bucks in Dr. Alexander Ermoshkin's home. He's one of my

co founder partners; he and his son built it. They're amazing

folks. And if you think of building a 3D printer made out

of wood, a broken projector off of eBay, a stepper motor from

Radio Shack, and some materials, I think, from Lowe's and maybe

Ace Hardware, both plywood and resins or chemical materials,

and it ended up also they came up with really what they called

a window or a way of actually producing the 3D printed parts.

I call it a magic window they dreamed up and I had some

probably the best polymer chemist in the world and one of

the best entrepreneurs in the world. Now Dr. Joe DeSimone is

one of my partners they came up with I was just the lucky

beneficiary of a contact lens type of material that was

transparent to light, permeable to oxygen, and you could 3D

print in a photo chemical way, not in the electromechanical way

of the previous 25 years. All of a sudden, we had a 3D printer.

And I remember the first drawing was of an ice cube, but you

could 3D print 25 times, maybe even 100 times faster. So it was

kind of a breakthrough. We put all of our research and studies

into a research report into a paper. We debuted on the cover

of Science Magazine, on the floor of a TED talk in

Vancouver, and I was the one is my cheap business guys. Instead

of the VC world, so well, I went to Sequoia Capital who are for

Well, your investor group is really impressive Sequoia

sure the best venture capital firm in the world and for sure,

the best in history and one of my great friends was at the time

still a young and getting proven person named Jim Goetz who's now

gone on to become five years in a row, the number one tech

investor in the world Midas list number one, and we tried to

raise one to 2 million from Jim and we ended up getting a

commitment basically for them to lead a round of 11 million the

same afternoon we started. And it's kind of gone crazy good.

Four of us started with negative 63,000 bucks in the bank and now

we got 500 employees Silicon Valley based blue so the blue

chip and enterprise customers you name a prestigious

enterprise customer, we kind of have them. I call it a tiger by

the tail, for sure. And I went from CEO to becoming chairman.

We then recruited Alan Mulally, who iconically ran Ford, and was

the President/CEO of Boeing Commercial to join our board and

he's been amazing. And then even Ellen Kullman -- who I think

Alan helped recruit to the board, but Joe DeSimone's help

-- is now our CEO and she's the first woman in 212 years to run

Dupont. It's one of our big chemical suppliers. So it's been

this handoff of amazing talent to amazing talent. And now I

just feel like the lucky guy, just active co-founder, but

we've had a crazy fun run and I think the next chapters are

still to be told.

Capital, Silverlake, Google Ventures, Piedmont Capital,

Wakefield Group, GE Ventures, Fidelity, Johnson & Johnson,

BMW, IDs and more.

Yeah, we made $680 million nobody's been coming at us. We

haven't even really tried to raise it. It's phenomenal. So

we're super well capitalized got hundreds of millions of dollars

in the bank. And I guess one of the big recruits that we have

and I think about it was I met again through Jim Goetz is a bit

like going to to me, Steven Spielberg that knows who you

want in your movie if you want to have a blockbuster. Sequoia

introduced me to Craig Carlson. At the time, he was immediately

former original VP of Engineering at Tesla for Elon

Musk for the first eight years pre-revenue. And I got to meet

Craig on bench in his hometown. Fast forward a couple of months

and Craig Carlson is our chief technology officer. And we

probably have 35 or 40 Tesla people there. And we've got the

founding engineering head of Tesla is our head of

engineering. Greg has been phenomenal. Joe's son, Phil De

Simone has been phenomenal from the beginning is really the

Chief Business Development product person, he closes all

the big deals, we've got this amazing team, but it's a bit

again, back to my analogy of that Spielberg movie, everybody

watched the movie, everybody wants to invest, everybody wants

to join.

you taking something that in my mind still

is very new and cutting edge like 3D printing, and

reinventing it that's quite remarkable. You had described to

me before, when we met how this works, it does seem a little bit

like magic.

Yeah, let me maybe describe it a little bit as if

you imagine Terminator 2 liquid metal man growing up out of the

broth out of a puddle, we literally do a CAD drawing of

anything, think of that magic window that's made out of that

contact lens kind of material. And we now have probably not

current, but 40 plus patents, maybe a couple 100 pending, so

it's truly new to the world. You literally do all that play a

movie of the part you want to produce, and it stays liquid at

the puddle on the magic window and you have a UV curable light,

I think it's a wavelength of 365, the same kind of DLP chip

you'd have in a movie theater, and you literally can pull the

product out of the broth or out of the lake. And if you've seen

again, Liquid Metal Man where they just grew up out of a

puddle, it's very similar. So as a result, it's a breakthrough 25

to 100 times faster, much less expensive, higher quality parts,

you can do used parts, instead of it being the parts that you

would use only for prototyping. It really changes supply chain

logistics, why would you make hundreds in advance if you don't

need them? Why don't you do it just in time? Why wouldn't you

bring some of those jobs or that capability back to the US? And

why wouldn't everything be made for you? Why wouldn't there be a

size mat for pretty much everything things in your feet,

maybe things in your ears, maybe medical devices, I mean, kind of

watch this space, because you can actually make everything

different. So it's bespoke. And its won because of its speed

because it's really focused on end-use manufacturing. So it's

it's been a breakthrough and kind of the joy of a lifetime.

And I'm thinking about how in the world that I get involved in

that. I guess the commonalities are amazing people that you

hustle and try to work hard for that invite you in to be a

co-founder. And also when I think back on it, I had to leave

my 15 year venture capital job to join a company that had no

money. Printer made out of wood. But I'd never thought of it that

way. Man. I just thought of it as the opportunity. And then the

whole idea of getting back inside a company just felt like

a joy. And I had enough pattern recognition in a while this is

really different. Almost like we had an amazing screenplay. So I

sole sourced it to Steven Spielberg. In this case, Jim

Goetz who again, I knew how good Jim was. And he said yes in one

afternoon to offer us five times more money than we were seeking.

We're done. And we went stealth for 18 months. And Jim is now

the lead investor, quarterback and calling all the shots. I'm

just a cheerleader, helper, active, you know, with some free

time to do a few other things.

What an amazing story. Congratulations.

So watch the space company's going really good. I

think the zero to one part was the invention that Alexander

Ermoshkin and his son came up with with Joe DeSimone's help.

But at some point, scaling these companies is both fun and the

next opportunity. And we've been scaling it beautifully. And this

is a company that's definitely built to last.

You are also co-founder of re Inc.

Yeah, there's a fun story there too. I guess

when I think back on themes, again, I'm a less young guy,

much less young guy than you. So I've kind of seen the movie

before and what I ended up gravitating towards the big

theme. So the whole idea of transforming manufacturing,

that's exciting. I'm also a proud dad, two amazing

daughters, wonderful wife of 30 plus years and this whole idea

of equity, equality, fairness, even diversity inclusion for

women just resonated with me. And it turns out having lived in

Chapel Hill, where UNC Chapel Hill is, they have this iconic

women's football team meaning soccer team. And I knew that I

was Mr. Nelson to a bunch of them because I kind of guess

drawn to greatness and that program's iconic in terms of how

good it is going back to the Mia Hamm days and they're the ones

that won the women's World Cup back in 2015. And at the same

time are going to sue their boss over being treated unfairly. You

don't often aren't often best of the world at what you do. So I

was advised you're number one to the US Women's National Team

Players Association. We brought in McKinsey to do a study about

getting them paid fairly etc. I came down to a friendly match in

Brazil. This we were joking about it. I just came from New

York with my re friends, my soccer friends Now iconic

people, they weren't at the time, we said, you know, yes,

you ought to fight for equal pay, you ought to fight for

being fair pay, I think fair is a better word. Maybe you ought

to get paid more, you ought to be treated equally and paid

fairly. But have you thought about starting a new company, we

call it newco -- N.E.W.C.O. --, where there isn't a bunch of

unfairness, older white men that decide how much you're worth?

Let the world decide. So we kind of built this thing launched it

in 2019 at the Women's World Cup, the fundraising there has

been crazy as well literally raised money, I think, well, the

first money was from Kleiner Perkins, which would be a top

two firm in history. We raised that literally at a zoom call,

and the money was in the bank in two days before the woman played

their first match. And it started out in streetwear. And

it's really now morphed in this vertical social network for

change makers, some biking enthusiasts would know the Apple

Strava that kind of tracks everything for the biking

enthusiast. This is more for the people that want to change the

world and be changemakers and it turns out my partners -- Megan

Rapinoe, Kristen Press, Tobin Heath, Meghan Klingenberg --

became synonymous with the cultural movement of fairness,

equity, equality, fairness, and changing the world in a good

way. And even the fight for fair pay. It's been another tiger by

the tail, they invited me in because they knew me as Mr.

Nelson, they now call me Steve as a co founder. And it's 85%

women owned all but probably 90% women run and me, they call me

OG, I thought that meant old guy, which is true. And that was

actually original gangster. I said, Okay, what does that mean?

I said, no, it's actually good. You've been here from the

beginning. So I'm OG to my young friends. I'm twice as old and

we've had a ball. And we've added now to Kleiner Perkins, we

raised money from New Enterprise associates, NEA, who's fantastic

firm from CAA, that probably the most important talent agency in

history out of LA, this university called Stanford that

you probably heard of, and it's kind of gone really good. For

me, it's a joy, I would do anything with these folks, I

would do a not for profit, build a house. Anything. By the way,

Megan Rapinoe is not like one of these iconic people on the

planet. And she's my friend four years ago, almost five years

ago. So it's been a bit of a wild ride. And for me a joy in

the fact that we actually have a company. And by the way back to

the whole notion of Yeah, fight to get paid fairly. But if you

own something, there's this thing called ownership that

nobody decided that the world and how good you're going to be.

And we're off to a really good start. And let's just say their

time and effort has been really well spent with a lot of upside

to research been a joy. Absolutely a joy.

Well, that's awesome. You have a lot going

on. You're on many boards, we haven't gone through that. But

there's one board that I would like to talk a little bit about.

You are one of the founding board members of the Whole

Health Institute.

Yeah, it's gonna be the Whole Health School of

Medicine and Health Sciences, kind of the new med school, but

also I was kind of a founding advisor before the whole health

institute even started. I had the great joy of meeting Alice.

Alice Walton that is, to me is like an entrepreneur. She's an

innovator, she's an out of the box thinker. A lot of people

would say she's the most like her dad, pretty iconic guy that

started this fortune one company, there in town. Alice

has become a amazing person in my life, amazing friend and

invited me not only was there from the beginning of the Whole

Health Institute, a bit of a founding advisor, even into

leading the search for Tracy Gaudet, who's done a fantastic

job, and the team behind all of that. But now this new med

school and I guess her first are tied for first new board member

of the Whole Health School of Medicine and Health Sciences.

But love Alice and what she wants to do to transform

healthcare in America.

Clearly, you've been involved in some very

transformational businesses. This seems to be remarkably

transformational because it could transform healthcare

business in the United States.

Yeah, it's, it's got big dreams. I just love

people that are big dreamers, I kind of say it all begins with a

dream. And Alice Walton and her whole initiative at Whole Health

wants to transform healthcare in America, think of it as also

East meets West. So it's not all about fee for service. It's

about keeping people healthy. It's about the move to value

based care, new payment models, new approaches, new

partnerships, you may have seen a big launch of a conversation

and for specialties with the Cleveland Clinic, pretty much

everybody on the planet that's anybody or even best in the

world of what you do wants to partner so it's been a good a

joy that you put some amazing people in the same room. And the

beautiful thing is it's starting in Northwest Arkansas in the

hometown of where this amazing family and you know, my friend

Alice, grew up. So it's a joy for me to try to help any way I

can. And that case, it's completely not for profit. I

don't need or want anything out of it. I just get energy and

vitality. I love hanging around people like Alice in the whole

health crowd. They've been amazing.

It is. It's tremendous. What made you decide

to move to Northwest Arkansas? Was it that?

yeah, I guess COVID has a way of doing things

for everybody in the world. Right? I mean, we always joke

about that. We were 20 year people in North Carolina. Our

daughters have 20 Somethings that live in LA in Santa Monica,

Brentwood kind of area. And they couldn't really come back and

see us so we couldn't really go see them in that window of time

and my wife beautifully proudly pronounces hey, I want to buy a

sprinter van. When we get a sprinter van and just kind of do

our life from the road a little bit, so which is what we did,

and we're out visiting them. And again, at this point, I'm

hundreds of conversations into life with Alice and the whole

health crowd. And she has a stop through town on our trip,

literally from LA back to North Carolina, because we were still

at the time owning a home and property in North Carolina after

20 years of living there. Big empty nester house, it wasn't

really required. We stopped, stayed at the 21-C, spent a lot

of time with Alice and some of her family members toured the

place. Before you know it, somebody called and said, hey,

there might be a unit available. And we took a look at it on like

10 minutes notice. And at the seven minute mark of being

toured around it, my wife says we'll take it. So that's back to

the was that planned? Was that in a spreadsheet? No, I guess

that's a blank moment of just forks in roads and amazing

people. And I really, I'll add to it. So Alice and the Whole

Health Institute for both my wife and I, my dear wife, Susan,

and I is a huge draw for us. Because we just feel like we

could have been involved from the ground up with something

great. That's really important. Again, if you think of themes,

health and wellness, and healing is really important theme. So is

changing manufacturing. So is equity, equality, fairness for

women. But I also think Bentonville in Northwest

Arkansas could be this next great place to start and grow a

business. There's no way. And the reason any reasons, it can't

be that next great place. It's very much the way I felt about

North Carolina in late 1999, when we moved there when we just

picked up and moved. So it's very similar to pick up and

move. And there's been amazing folks. And I feel like there's

no reason. And by the way that told you, Matt, you're fantastic

at what you do, we wouldn't have to invent somebody as good as

you that wanted to actually be transformative on a local level,

and so many professional ways, and just had joyous times with

you already. So the whole idea of being around people, when you

wake up every day excited about who's there. It's just something

I get excited about. And I love it as a base for next chapters.

So that's the way I guess it came to be. And here we are. And

it's been fantastic.

What you say is so true. What makes life joyful is

the people you're around. I so much agree with that. And there

are so many wonderful people to be around. So we are fortunate.

You have been an extremely successful business leader in

many, many different dimensions. Really a paragon, I think for

young people who want to go into business, what would you

recommend to our students, whether they be undergraduates

or graduate students?

I really appreciate the question. And of

all the things we've talked about, this is probably my

favorite, I get so much energy out of young, talented people.

At some point, I'm the less young guy no matter what. So the

whole idea of trying to help. And we come across Matt, you and

I as wise, but we just have seen the movie before and lived

longer and have some life learnings to share. There's a

few if you don't mind me mentioning them would be, I'me

really big on exploring your interests to find your passions,

and then open the aperture wide to find out what you love. And

if you could find the people, places, things that or even who

inspire you, give you energy, give you vitality. I think that

brings inspiration into your life. And it helps you or even

create your life calling and I'm really big on what's your life

calling What's your reason for being. And for me, it's those

things that give you the most energy, the most vitality is

usually your passions over time, and you can over time, find a

way to work in those fields. And then find the people around that

that are kind of best at what they do. And prioritize those

folks. You know, first and foremost, I love to go to work

on them, with them, for them. I don't need any gain out of it.

My gain is the energy and vitality I get out of it and the

learnings I get out of it. And as we talked about the joy, and

sometimes I feel like I've I'm honored privileged lucky to even

be alongside them. Like who am I? I'm just this guy that's had

these forks in the road that some of them are worked out

pretty well. So this whole idea of combining what you love to do

what you with what you do for a living. I think it's fantastic

as well, I guess if I was thinking of skills to grow, I

think Systems Thinking is good. That's where innovation and

opportunity think of those key skills, you know, wide and deep

be an expert at something but be broad enough liberal arts, with

the sciences. I think being technology aware, and or savvy.

I think being able to use these tools is really important. I

think being competitive and actually wanting to do well. I

don't mean competing against other people but wanting to do

well. Maybe that's better said as conscientiousness or grit.

And then there's nothing better than being a great communicator,

I think both verbal and written. And I love the idea of being of

service to others. And so the longer you live, the more and

I'm sure you realize that maybe you've realized that your whole

life. I really got it in the last decade or so. This whole

idea of being service to others is where I get my joy. It's not

by doing my thing is is by helping others. So I guess those

are the big things that I would say. But I'd actually add to it,

you know, be a dreamer, you know, I now hang around because

of Sequoia and Alice Walton and my friends at Kleiner, Perkins,

John Doerr, these are dreamers that think anything is possible.

And I guess I've always been the person personally, no matter

what I'm going to give everything my absolute best

effort, they're going to get my best me. If we can control

having a positive attitude and being upbeat about things I

don't know many pessimistic successful folks. I don't hang

around with them anyway. And then being a great team player,

and then it doesn't feel like work if you're working alongside

amazing people. Those are some of the things that I really have

enjoyed, I guess over the last many years is picking projects

that I'm passionate about finding the absolute best people

associated with it. And there's, you know, there's been talk on

the engineering side of things of 10x. Engineers, like some

engineers are 10 times better, doesn't mean they're better

people. And this means just engineers, I just think some

people are just extraordinary at what they do. And if you could

find a way to be a talent scout, and get your way to those

extraordinary people. That's where the magic really happens

is, you know, big dreams, big needs, extraordinary people. And

it doesn't thence feel like work at all, it feels like a joy. And

we've used that word. I think, you know, happiness is fleeting.

Joy is not, I think you get joy from serving and helping others.

And for me, it never fades to try to be of service and helping

other folks. And it never fades to want to be around incredible

people. So I guess those would be some of the life lessons. You

can't always do that job. One. I'm thinking when I was a young

IBM guy that did I know this? No way. But this is like if I was

to get beamed up to another planet and had to offer these

words based on now many decades of being around extraordinary

people and some fun projects. I'd want to share those words,

Based on my observation of you, you really

live this service to others. I know you're doing it in many

ways with the Whole Health Institute. No, but you you're

doing it with the university too helping us with the

entrepreneurship efforts. And I really appreciate that we're,

we're lucky you decided to move here and get engaged.

So I'm the lucky one. And again, lucky to have

met you, man have so enjoyed our conversations, and I hope

there's many, many more opportunity to work side by

side. I'm really proud of what you're doing. And your team is

doing. And there's a big opportunity for somebody to do

something really special somewhere in the nation. And I

don't know why northwest Arkansas, and things emanating

from your leadership and kind of locking arms with some other

incredible people and I'm, I'm bringing my friends through

town. So my you know, dear friend, John Doerr of Kleiner

Perkins is coming to town for the second time. Jim Goetz is

coming to town as you well know, from Sequoia and I don't think

he's spoken publicly in six years. He's coming in April. So

we're getting the best in the world kind of folks that want to

come to town to tell their story to listen, learn and offer

thoughts and these are folks that in theory have already won

at life. But they want to offer gifts to others and they're

picking our town in Northwest Arkansas to have those

conversations.

Steve, thank you so much for taking time today to

visit with us andit's been a really interesting conversation

and really appreciate you. Have a wonderful holiday.

I appreciate that Matt.