S4 E1 Why Advocacy-Centered Brands Actually Build Trust

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Executive Producers: Monique Velasquez and Piper Kessler

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We [music] are in fact far stronger when

we see each other and collaborate

than when we start to get divisive

[music] about the control of the

material we have in front of us. The

quality of the work that our community

deserves and I say this many communities

I should say our communities deserve is

far better than I think sometimes uh

they themselves often times think they

deserve. And the reality is when that

quality is good, the other people start

to get invited into the room. They see

that like, yeah, this is I I can connect

to this, especially when it's meaningful

and it's authentic. And we really focus

on meaningful and authentic and

community-led [music] work.

Representation behind the camera

determines who gets to tell the story,

[music] how it gets told, and who feels

seen when it's over. Velasquez Media has

spent over 20 years behind the camera,

[music] helping missiondriven leaders

and organizations turn everyday content

into video assets that actually move

people. Change the Real exists for BIPAC

[music] and LGBTQ founders and

entrepreneurs who are ready to use video

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Change the real representation starts

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Hey y'all. You want to work with our

next guest because it means you're doing

good work in your community. Shane Lucas

is an activist, public speaker, brand

strategist, award-winning designer, and

harm reductionist known for his work at

the intersection of storytelling,

leadership, and organizational change.

He is the founder of A Great Idea, an

empathyled creative agency. He has led

for over a decade focused on finding

solutions for organizations pushing

toward a more human, inclusive, diverse

world to strengthen alignment, build

trust, and translate values into ethical

decisions that hold up in practice. He

was featured in Graphic Design USA's

Designers for Good, which highlights

creative professionals who use their

talents to champion social justice,

advance environmental action, promote

diversity, and improve communities.

Shane has taken the TED X stage twice so

far so far as a speaker, co-hosts the

Power Beyond Pride podcast, and is

working on a book called The Advocacy

Advantage. He is a fierce advocate for

harm reduction of men in the sex

industry through speaking engagements,

creative strategy, and education. Shane

works with leaders and organizations to

navigate complexity, improve

collaboration, and create impact for

social change that leads to sustained

action. We know him as a smart, witty,

caring human interested in uplifting the

LGBTQ community as well as all

disenfranchised communities. We love

you. We want our audience to know about

you. Thank you for being here, Shane.

Thank you so much, uh, Mon Piper. It is

such a joy to be here today with you. I

love spending time with both of you and

it is such a joy to be able to talk

about these conversations and these uh

these areas. It's weird hearing your own

bio, right?

It is. You feel you feel all

embarrassed, but you know what? You

deserve all of the credit and uh you

know, let our audience know just what a

badass you are.

Well, thank you. It it means a lot to me

to to hear that. I've been an activist

since I was a teenager. So, it's

exciting to have um a career that really

gets to live into those values and

really work toward meaningful change

even in a time that has such challenges

to those transformational changes today.

Yeah, makes sense. So, tell us who you

are and what are you up to?

Well, uh that is such a it feels like

such a a difficult question to just

summarize in like a little bit. I would

say trouble. I'm always up to trouble.

But I but I really come from a social

justice movement and a legacy that

suggests if we're not causing trouble,

the good trouble, the John Lewis

informed trouble, right? The kind that

our queer u uh leaders of the past, you

know, have always Sylvia Rivera and many

other uh leaders of the past have always

tried to encourage us to think about our

queer communities as being big questions

to the norm because the norm itself

becomes the challenge. And I learned

that early on as a teenager. I learned

what it meant to step into a space,

especially doing reproductive justice as

a 14-year-old. Um, and really trying to

step into a space that was very

controversial, but it was controversial

for for reasons that I didn't understand

because the people who were impacted by

those decisions were people on the

ground in my communities. So who I am is

that trouble and and and I try to bring

that to my work uh because that is

really as we're doing movement work and

we're trying to bring communities

together then we're really trying to

look at systems that need to change need

to be more uh structurally efficient.

They need to be serving communities

better and they need to be community led

and have those community voices be

centered in that work. And so uh that's

who I think I am

and what you're building. I love that

it's it's like [laughter] the passion

comes through. So, at some point at 14,

there was a moment,

a a decision or a situation that made

you say, "I have to do this this

what was that? What was that moment?"

That's a it's really powerful because

lately I've been really reflecting on

that, working on the book and working

through varying projects. There's an

individual named Patty Alzader who's

long since passed and she was very

influential to me. uh she was someone

who just at a time of of again a lot of

controversy around what it meant to have

reproductive justice and reproductive

services available for people that was

affirming that was non-judgmental that

was really at the time I didn't

understand what harm reduction meant uh

but it was really a harm reduction model

that people are provided services and

given access to resources so they thrive

regardless of their decision-m that you

make sure that their needs get met and

that hopefully from that they're making

the best decisions possible for them to

thrive on their terms. It's really to me

it was very informative and Patty really

influenced that. I think I came to it

because people I was in high school with

uh at the time uh they were falling into

decisions that they didn't make and the

repercussions of those issues. Right? So

teenage pregnancy in central Illinois,

which is where I'm from, uh very common.

My uh stepsister at the time had her

first young person at 15. I helped raise

that person when I was in junior high.

And then uh in my high school you know

we had individuals who faced early

pregnancies and not because they you

know wanted to but simply because it was

a situation or there was lack of

education lack of availability and as

somebody who looked around and was like

why can't we just allow people access to

resources and care that they would most

benefit from.

Right. It didn't make sense. You you're

you're watching this happen and you're

thinking as a young person, well this

just makes sense. If I I'm going to

touch a fire, I should have a glove.

Absolutely. Just that I want people to

be able to able to make decisions about

their lives on their terms in ways that

they see themselves thriving. Right.

That's what we're looking for is that's

to me bodily autonomy. That's what

bodily autonomy means in that freedom.

And that really touches everywhere from

social justice uh in social justice to

racial justice, economic justice, gender

justice, all of these places that people

should be able to live freely with

dignity in their approaches to the

world. Right now, we have a collective

contract. So, for example, if my goal to

thrive on my terms is to put a tank in

my front yard, we might have a

conversation about what the limitations

of that look like in terms of who I

might cause harm to in that process. But

that's part of what's great about social

dialogue and communities coming together

to have these conversations. And I think

we're not in a place where that is

happening. So for me, that's what I see

as my sort of mission in this work and

and life work is really to help that

story sharing that lets people better

understand that when we're talking about

other human beings, when we're engaged

with other people, we really need to be

thinking about a society where everyone

can thrive in their bodies, on their

terms, in their dignity. And to me,

that's a that's a fundamental place that

a great idea started from, but also my

activism started from.

Sorry, I'm like totally just listening

and getting into that question. So, we

got a question of what's the hardest

thing you had to figure out about

building a business as an LGBTQ leader

in your industry?

That's a really interesting question.

Uh, I think the hardest thing has been

figuring out how to encourage people to

think about intersectionality as a

constructive way to think of their own

organization and a constructive way to

think about their own businesses.

Oftentimes, we're sort of hitting a

particular target. We're looking for a

version of a person at the end of this

um that we want to sell to, we want to

engage, and we want to have be a donor,

whatever the case may be. And oftentimes

we only think of them in that context of

that transaction, of that purchase. Um,

and I want to make sure when we do this

work, we're thinking about people

holistically. We're thinking about them

through the entirety of their journey

that somebody who accesses services for

an organization at some point hopefully

becomes your donor. If if your program

is doing the work and transformative

work that it's intended to do and that

and the and the and the changes of lives

are happening, those are people who

become your donors, they become your

board members, they become your staff in

the same way that your consumers don't

just purchase something, right? You want

them to be engaged in the process so you

can get feedback in a constructive way

that if you need to improve the product,

if you need to grow the product in

different ways, if you need to uh do

things in your market space. Now, we

only work with education and healthcare

partners, but you're still looking to

try to build an investment among your

audiences so that you're getting a

quality feedback. And you can create

something that not only, you know,

again, it has to work in a capitalist

economy. It has to work as a business.

It has to function, but it also can do

good. They can also do really incredible

things and help people change their

lives through their education, by having

control of their own healthcare, by

getting uh affirming healthcare, all of

that stuff. But if you're not creating a

two-way system, if you're not creating a

system where you see people in their

wholeness, then it really becomes

transactional. It really becomes

something where people are are there,

but they recognize that they're only

there because the cost is right or the

location is right. And that, you know,

at some point as a business, a brand, as

an organization, that becomes a risk

because if you make a mistake, then

people will walk away. If you have an

issue in service, you may not hear about

it until it's far too late because your

people who are accessing those services

aren't actually communicating with you

to tell you, hey, by the way, this is

happening. So, we really encourage this

sort of advocacy centric and this sort

of again multi- uh multiidentity point

of view. And so it's interesting to me

because um we do work um in our own

businesses and at some point there is a

a point where who we who our own

identities are really inform what it is

that we get to do.

Has there been a place where you've seen

well my own identity is costing me or

made something more possible in your

work? It's an interesting question. Uh I

would say let's start with what makes it

more possible. I think um in some ways

what I love about queerness and when I

came to queerness was the kind of

community and connection there are among

other queer community members who do

come to an understanding about

intersectionality much faster I think

than many other communities do or at

least uh many communities that I've

experienced. I think where it's been the

biggest challenge is that people

sometimes associate that your queerness

um is somehow the only box or the only

conversation you are able to have where

the reality is like all of us we bring

our lived experiences in the room.

Whether you are a person of color,

whether of your gender identity,

whatever the case is, it is a glorious

texture that makes up the things that

you bring into the room. This is why

spaces of multiplicity thrive. This is

why they're better. this is why we get

greater ideiation out of that because

we're bringing in these different

perspectives. So sometimes I think it's

just when you're perceived as having one

sort of leading identity and again for

many people of color this is a common

conversation where you know this is the

identity with which you're going to be

somehow restricted in conversation and

that's not that doesn't do any of us any

good at the end of the day. It is a

component it is a component of their

narrative which is a beautiful component

of that narrative but is one of many. It

is one of them as a parent, as a as a

dog parent, as a as a as a person, as a

person from the Midwest. We have all

these different layers of texture that

get to make up our multiplicity in our

intersectionality.

And if we take that away from the room,

if we if we restrict people to only have

that one area, we actually reduce our

ability to come up with better ideas and

and and uh quality solutions.

Yeah. I mean, part of this, you know,

reminds me of the fact that we do, we

hear a lot of these stories of, oh, it

was the only black writer in the room

and they only wanted me to do the black

characters or I was an ad agency and I

was, you know, a person of color and

they didn't think that I could write for

the majority's perspective of what the

brand was selling.

And so, you know, that happens with

actors, you know, only playing the thug

and that sort of thing. And so, all of

these things are about representation

and um what we see in the media and how

we're we're all trying to change what

the narrative about who we are and our

different identities are. And that's

what I love about talking to you because

you see this clearly and you can

articulate this in a different way

because you know I come from a Latina

lesbian. It's a different experience but

I still feel like I have this shared you

know

viewpoint with you. It's f it's funny in

some ways you're absolutely right you

know again I think again when that

identity becomes the barrier itself

right but it is actually individuals who

live in the margins who have lived and

experienced that oppression actually who

probably can tell the white supremacist

story better than anybody could um which

is funny right because it's sort of

being relegated to telling this

particular story as if it isn't the main

story but actually many communities have

been performing that main story for many

many years um and I think

it is what has made I think the last

decade probably 20 years where the lens

of who's telling the story even when it

is something that is you know not

specifically into a uh a marginalized

experience but really looking at a

mainstream experience and starting to

retell a version of the world that is

probably closer to accurate and probably

closer to what it means uh to in some

ways have to live amongst this idea of

what the norm is when the norm itself is

just deeply deeply fractured and deeply

challenging. Um, and so I actually think

it's interesting because you do see this

um relegation of individuals often times

of those experiences, but they've been

watching and studying and and surviving

in many cases against that experience.

uh that's you have to study it to

understand where you're safe and where

the pockets of safety are or where to

avoid you know confrontation or if

you're not into that

and to see the things that people aren't

saying because oftent times you're

reading and learning a room in a very

different way

and so we don't what what I think it is

is most of culture is just afraid of

that because it is that visibility of

those things

that then forces us to have a little bit

of a reckoning that, you know, we've

never lived in a country where the

promise of equity has been delivered.

And and it would be lovely to live in a

country and to live in a world in which

that was the case. But to do that, we

really have to come to terms with all

the things and the systems and the

pieces that have essentially continued

to affirm that inequity uh since its

inception of ever [laughter] ever since

its inception of ever.

Okay. And I get it. And so just pivoting

back a little bit to you know the

conversation about business um a little

bit you know a lot of leaders are doing

important type of work and are still

being kept a secret right and so what's

been your relationship with being seen

and where does that where are you with

that today being seen and

I really wrestle sometimes with figuring

out how how to navigate systems that

have been around for a long time. And

I'll use a good example is um you know,

chambers of commerce. And so we're we're

a member of the LGBT Chamber of

Commerce. And I love that idea um in the

sense that I've I've come to capitalism

very um very uh through through a lot of

reflection. I I got my MBA. I've done

all the things to try to learn like how

does this work? And there are things

like conscious capitalism. There are

models that are out there. Conscious

capitalism for those who may not be

familiar is essentially ensuring that

the business model works but really

looking at a value system informed

version of capitalism so that you are

looking at what impact your business is

having and then ways that you can look

infrastructurally to your product your

team uh to make sure that you are doing

uh the least amount of harm but also

good within your systems right so it's

it's trying to think about how do I

employ the system to its greatest good I

have found it sometimes really

challenging uh at times to to show up

but I think part of It is just I love I

love activist communities and I love

community organizers because the courage

it takes to show up in the room to talk

about and share those stories is so

beautiful. It's why I connect so many so

much to other purpose-driven and

missiondriven organizers and and why we

do that work so well. Why we've been

able to do it this last 10 years but

also I've been an organizer for you know

30 years and I love that level of

courage. I think it takes courage to

start a business. So there is at some

level a courage amongst those business

owners and business business leaders.

What I wish they would employ also is a

little bit of that courage into the

spaces to think about how they can mix

both the profitability that's necessary

in this particular system as well as to

look at and say well how can we actually

make some structural changes here to

create a society where all of my team

all the people who are making it

possible for me to thrive as a business

that we can actually think about ways

that they're thriving in their own and

again there are great models for that

there are business leaders who are doing

that and and I love and I love them and

I and I appreciate that they're out

there. Um, I feel like that conversation

has always sort of been pushed a little

bit to the side. Um, it had a center

moment for a couple seconds, I think.

Um, but in the current culture, I think

that a lot of that is being pushed

aside. I think that the there's a

there's less of a fashion to wanting to

be purpose- driven and mission driven.

And that really comes strangely counter

to the youngest generation of workers

who are most interested in working for

companies that do have purpose, that are

interested in missiondriven work. that

see their own labor as having some value

and some skill set in the mix that they

can contribute to the world that they

want to be part of that. It's one of the

most interesting things I think that's

sort of coming at conflict as the

generational changes will start to

happen in the workforce.

Yeah. You know, it's interesting to me

because you've been in business for a

while,

10 years now, nearly as long as many,

but uh

yes, but but you've been in in business

for a while and you're seeing um a bit

of a shift in sort of the

who you're targeting and what they're

reflecting back to you in their

interests. So, you're talking about

young people and wanting to do good,

right? It seems to be um prevalent in a

lot of news articles about how this

generation entering the workforce really

isn't interested necessarily in the

dollars. They're looking at making the

impacts. And so a business like that,

you have to figure out your business

because you do branding and you advocacy

work, just knowledge exchange. And so

you have to look at that and see what's

happened in in the last 10 years. How

have you made shifts and what's the

impact of like following that old

10-year-old model and what's you what

have you pivoted to to be able to

continue doing the work? I think it's

interesting because many of the

businesses that are out there that are

looking to be successful in the long

term, they recognize that all of the

things that have been done over the last

10 years and there were some really

again difficult conversations um

important cultural conversations around

racial justice, around gender justice,

around inclusive practices, all of that

that were really just at the inception

of real meaningful change. But companies

that work globally, companies that see

themselves having a long footprint in

the world, they recognize that this is

still part of their business model. Now,

they have shifted some of the language

around it because they have to. Um the

federal government has been aggressive

about um targeting some of these

companies and they are doing their best

I think to for the most part to try to

navigate that that climate. So, we've

seen some of our programs shift the

language and the way that they refer to

grant and foundational work in the way

that they structure um the uh naming of

the organization. We've had a couple

name changes over the last while. Um and

you know, part of me believes that that

is a necessary way for them to hold at

the center the work they want to do and

then really start to uh make sure that

they are setting themselves up for a

longer term impact that eventually uh

will lead to I think the work that they

want to do from an equity standpoint.

Then you see companies like Bronner and

Bronner is going they're doubling down

on their commitment in this work because

I think they also realize the audience

is out there. Most people want to think

they're doing good with their purchases.

I mean you know the cost matters uh

convenience matters. I mean, there's

certainly components that make a good

business a good business,

but most people will think about, and

there's studies, there's plenty of

studies and research that talk about,

they want and they see a version of

their product purchases reflecting their

own value systems. And so, when they

make choices, they do, again, for the

most part, uh, see that choice as having

some reflection back on who they want to

be. And that really does matter. So that

means that brands that are you know

performative in their in their actions

you know again we've seen some certainly

a number of those

right right slap the rainbow on

slap the rainbow on but you know across

a variety of of of of areas and a

variety of communities you know they at

some point we hope have some kind of

reckoning whereas I think and and we've

seen that in some ways Costco is a good

example of a company that has really

again centered its value system held its

space hold its labor rights and its

labor uh meaningfully um and has

continued to grow even in this time

where the the the overall culture has

seen a bit of a a reduction right in

some of the purchases. So there are

opportunities um for people to live into

these spaces. This is one reason why we

we hold tight um because we believe in

this work. We believe in purpose- driven

work and that it does uh it does mean

something because once people are with

you um they want you to succeed and you

know they can't always be there. Um you

know there's there's issues around their

ability to to you know in terms of what

they have in terms of their own capital

and their own resources but even then

word of mouth can mean a lot for

organizations volunteers can mean a lot.

A lot of a lot of things can be done on

the ground that aren't just solely donor

transaction for example.

Right. So, and the the messages when you

were talking about, so if there was a

single message that you were guaranteed

it would get to all the people that you

wanted it to get to, what's the message

and who's in the room that hears it?

What's the message and who's in the room

that hears it? Um

I believe uh so my message is

we are in fact far stronger when we see

each other and collaborate

than when we start to get divisive about

the control of the material we have in

front of us. Again it's it's a longer

way of saying we are better together

which I think is a simple way to think

about it. But it also means being able

to see that multiplicity and embrace it

and recognize that we have to work

collaboratively.

It is a as somebody who's a longtime

activist and certainly looks at the way

the system is structured. There are a

very small number of people who are

benefiting from all of the divisiveness

and the challenges and the fighting and

the things that we're doing to compete

for resources. And the reality is like

the amount of money that has been spent

by them on things that we didn't ask for

would have paid for national healthcare.

It would have paid for us to deal with

the some of the economic inequities for

people of color in the south and

throughout the nation. There are a lot

of things that we could have done with

the funds that have been spent on that

point 0.5%

0005. My math is terrible apparently

0.005% 005%

um that the rest of us suffered for and

the rest of the communities have

suffered for other people have suffered

for and we don't demand that we don't we

we we just have accepted the system as

it is and I think that real

transformation if I want people to hear

it it is everybody to really think about

um where those resources are and who

benefits when we're all fighting over

these things that that we just don't

need to be fighting over.

And and just to Who else is in the room

if you're giving this message? Who who

else is there? Like behind you like who

who's supporting that message?

Oh, I mean I am I when I say those

things I am standing on the shoulder of

so many amazing people. So I that you

know again I there there are so many um

leaders, civil rights leaders, queer

rights leaders that that you know

certainly inform my work. Who's in the

room uh you know with me? There are

people across whether you're in an

enterprise level business or you're on

the ground doing grassroots organizing.

you know this is true. And I think the

issue is that it feels so difficult to

be able to say in the room that these

things are there and to talk about that

accountability because again we we we

are so used to a system because it has

taken hundreds and hundreds of years and

probably one could argue since the

beginning of time to kind of build this

system where uh people are essentially

feel disempowered from actually asking

for things to be changed until at some

point you're just at a you're at a point

and there's just an inflection point and

then people feel like there's just

nothing else to do. And so we have to be

cautious about that placation. We have

to be cautious about what it means. And

I and I say that because you know for

those of us who are queer, gay marriage,

for example, is an example of a

placation that I think did more harm

than good. Um I think it's valuable and

I certainly don't want to take away the

right of anyone who has the right in

which to do that, but it did take the

pressure off of many of the other issues

that were impacting queer people

throughout the nation um at many

different levels. And it still didn't

take away our our our role or our

position as secondass citizens that um

if it weren't for municipal or local

legislation, we would not have the

rights um we would not have many of the

rights that many of the people who do

enjoy whether it's housing protections,

employment protections, whatever. Um

that those are not national protected.

They're not they are not protected by

any particular sturdy infrastructure. It

is a very fragile relationship. Um so

that placation is an issue and I think

people who are working every day in

corporate America in organizations they

see that. I think the issue is just

getting them to think about it like wow

we can be part of this. This is why

communityled work is so much a central

part of what we do because communityled

work is such a critical piece about

getting more people into the

conversation and hearing those voices

creating those two way two-way systems

there that we're able to get that

feedback in. make sure that's part of

the story sharing that we're doing. That

way we're doing it from an ethical

standpoint. We're doing it from a

meaningful standpoint and we're starting

to build that relationship so that

they're essentially again everyone wants

to see you succeed when they're part of

that solution when they've invested

themselves in it. They want to see it

succeed.

Yeah. So you talk about you know your

company a great idea and you know talk

about you know there there's so much

wrapped in like the passion that I'm

hearing and that that moment that you

were like okay it's going to be a great

idea like that is the place that you

need to be and you you brought all this

passion with you like what was that what

what was the spur that created this

business for you? Oh, the story that

created this business is a really

powerful uh moment I think of coming to

terms with my own activism that put me

in a very vulnerable position. I think

uh many small businesses are cultivated

out of

necessity necessity. Um, as again I I I

call back to my queer uh you know the

legacy that

and so women and people of color people

in the queer community often create

their own businesses because there are

not opportunities or doors open to them

and so you're finding you find yourself

in that similar situation 10 years ago.

Absolutely. You know, again, it is um

there's entrepreneurism that is um

circumstantial and I think there's an

entrepreneurism that again comes from a

level of privilege where you're just

like I have an idea and let me start to

put stuff out and you know there is

value to both. I there's certainly no I

don't see any need to diminish either.

But I think it's important to note that

the genesis and the needs of community

members who are coming from a

circumstantial entrepreneurism um we

have not built a lot of infrastructure.

I think there's some amazing programs.

Um Durham, uh for example, has some

really amazing programs. Uh Greensboro

has had some amazing programs here in

North Carolina. Uh New York, uh you

know, where we have a number of our

partners as well has some amazing

programs that are really there to

support, um entrepreneurs who may not

have a lot of resources initially, but

have really great ideas and are trying

to bring something together. And that

has helped, like you said, many people

who cannot um feel safe or feel like

they're treated equitably in many work

environments. And so for a lot of trans

community members, for a lot of

communities of color, for individuals

who have experienced harassment, all of

that, right, they have gone on to be

entrepreneurs in their own right simply

because it is a way for them to to work

through this society and find a way

whether they're building candles in

their bathroom or they are creating the

next version of a social social media

channel. Um, I appreciate that they are

bringing those ideas and sharing them

with us. I I would like us to think

about a society where we are helping

those those community members, right,

access that those resources. Um so that

is that that's the broader conversation.

A great idea um stems out of my own uh

sort of runin with that conversation of

sort of being in a place where I I was

like well what do I do now? Uh and I I

always have taken on projects. So even

when I worked for enterprise companies I

always did the inverse. I always took on

projects that were the inverse of what I

was doing. So if I was working in print,

so I ran several print magazines at a

time. I ran five inflight magazines at

one point at one time. Um, and then, uh,

I would do a lot of print projects. So,

uh, for actually oftentimes I try to

choose really fun stuff. So, uh, Suspect

Thoughts Press was a queer press and I

was their creative director on the side.

It did not pay a lot of money, but I got

to do things like the erotica of meat. I

mean, like very off-the-wall fun things

uh, that, you know, were less corporate.

I got to do I loved my job, you know, my

my job during the day telling stories,

but I like doing other stuff on the

side. And then when I worked for

companies uh, doing things like uh,

Verizon Wireless, I worked Oops. worked

with them um and that kind of stuff. Uh

I would do more print stuff because I

was working on more digital and so I

would do more more stuff there. So I'd

always find some different projects to

work on that were uh different. And so

when I found myself in a position of uh

what do I do? Um I was thankful that

many people were very excited about me

being available more completely to take

on more projects. And then um as a great

idea started to form uh I really felt

like it needed to be centered in the

work that I I really feel passionate

about and the movement work that I've

always wanted to see happen. Um and so

being able to support clients in climate

mitigation, racial justice, trans

rights, reproductive justice, um uh

child care, senior services, like being

able to work across all these varying

channels, but bring an eye to or bring a

bring a lens that is very community-led.

Um I couldn't be happier to do that

every day. And my team, I think it fuels

us and it's very much part of the work

we talk about every every every week.

I love that. I I hear the passion. I'm

so happy that you're out there doing

that.

So, where you are now, is there

something that you wish that you knew

before like that somebody had maybe told

you that had been in business or you

telling a younger you?

That's a it's a great question uh to

think about what would have influenced

or what information I would have gotten

early on. I think there are people, you

know, I mentioned before there are

entrepreneurs who are kind of

circumstantial. um you know I felt very

circumstantial at the time and then

there were people who are very

intentional.

So there were lots of infrastructural

things that I didn't know uh in terms of

bookkeeping and things like that. Now

thankfully, you know, I mean, all those

things have, you know, got taken care of

and I had a bookkeeper, but hunting down

a bookkeeper and figuring out what to do

and um just working through I think

processes of navigating projects because

in the past, you know, prior to that it

was like oneoffs here and there and then

suddenly I'm taking on like a lot more

work and so there's a lot more projects

and what do I do with it? I am my own

project manager. I think many small

business owners uh really wrestle with

how much stuff you're willing to take on

and how much work that is to manage. And

I had no idea. So I was, you know,

bumping around, trying things, doing

things. So I burned a lot of time that

way. Um I also think I spent a lot of

time trying to figure out the networks

of systems that were encouraging small

businesses all the time. And I didn't

realize I think early on as quickly as I

it took me about two years to realize

that I am I am their market. [laughter]

And so I was like, "Oh, you want my

business to succeed? That's amazing. Me

too." And I'll show up here and I'll do

this thing and yeah, I can't wait to go

to this conference. Um, and then I

realized that that was not it was it was

not really serving. It took me a couple

years to figure out like which ones who

it was serving at the end of the day.

Um, and I I learned where I needed to be

and I'm still learning that a bit. So,

it's not to say that it's done. It's

saying that early on a lot of people

would promise like you're a small

business, here's the definite guarantees

on the ways you're going to do X and Y

thing. And I was like, oh yeah, I'll do

that. And uh, I was like that didn't

work.

Uh, so that a lot of that trial and

error. Would you have handed do you

think who you were now you would have

handed off some of the stuff

more earlier? Like

I think there are things that I probably

uh would have also just to get in the

habit of it.

I think that's the hardest thing to

break up is once you're in the habit of

right of of of watching these things and

controlling them. Um I I don't think of

myself as much of a control freak. I

think I operate mostly out of fear. Um

like what happens? Um, some people are

like, you know, I don't know if maybe

it's fear that motivates them too, but I

think, um, I care so much

about the quality that goes out the

door. I believe the organizations we

work with do amazing work every day. Uh,

and I believe that they deserve quality.

And uh I was at a um we were uh

cultivating a workshop and and someone

who was in the workshop uh was wrote on

a little sticky note when we asked like

what is the biggest challenge that you

have uh in the organization and they put

up there like you know that we're that

we kind of treat ourselves like the

stepchild right that and and I say this

as a

as a former step as as a stepchild.

Yeah. We we talk about don't be the mean

girl to yourself.

Well that you don't think you deserve

you're being quality work. your own

you're being your own mean girl. That's

right.

Yeah. That you that you don't that

you're not doing really important

things. In fact, I mean, if you're

selling I don't know, widgets, go

widgets. I think it's great. I think

it's it's great. We need I guess we need

widgets. Um but the people who are out

there helping people and and walking

alongside them, whether they're, you

know, working through housing or food

or, you know, dealing with climate

mitigation issues, whatever the case may

be. I mean that is generational change.

That's that's meaningful work. I feel

like those areas education, you know,

our teachers are some of the least

appreciated uh population. Uh and so

that is unjust. And so I believe they

deserve great things because what

they're trying to do is build a world

that is in fact better. And I love a

good widget. I just don't think that

that necessarily actually addresses the

needs of of community members.

And so, you know, when everything's

hitting every

um milestone, every

possible good note in your business,

what does it look like? What's

happening? What What do your clients get

out of it?

I mean, we all love it, right? like when

someone especially so we recently just

had an advocacy day for uh the North

Carolina uh um AIDS action network and

the they've been around for a number of

years. We just did their policy day HIV

Speaks and it was such a great uh great

event. They do it every year but this

year we had uh more people attend than

we have in many many years. So they've

been they've been with us now for a

couple years and uh watching community

members and being in community with

community members who see their stories

who see the experience in front of them

as something that says you see me you

understand me and for the organization

to re see that that community that they

are connected to when they're talking to

legislators is just lit up

with I understand the conversation I

want to have here. I understand the

change I want to see happen and I'm here

to make sure this happens.

That is beautiful. Like that's what we

want to see. That's community members

lived experience being in these spaces

having this conversation alongside

people who may not have that same

experience but now have a deeper

understanding about what that experience

feels like and how they can have an

impact in that. Right? So to me when

things come together is that moment when

they're like, "Hey, come on over here.

we're going to get a big picture with

this and here's my button that says you

know fund HIV care or whatever that you

know all the things that need to be

there and they're like yeah right on yes

that's what we want to see because you

know whether it is you know again an

education healthcare or you know

nonprofit work working with you know we

work with seniors in in in Manhattan and

like when those community members see

themselves in the work and they're like

yeah like I'm really proud this is a

space that I I feel safe this is a space

I feel good and they see that in the

work. We've done the right job. So

that's that's to me when it works. You

know, I love that we get awards. That's

always good. Who doesn't love an award?

I'm I'm a Leo, so you know, love it, you

know. So we've won anthems, we've won uh

you know, Markcom awards. We've won

we've won those things. And that's

important from an industry standpoint.

Um but like I said before the quality of

the work that our community deserves and

I say this many communities I should say

our communities deserve

is far better than I think sometimes uh

they themselves oftenimes think they

deserve and the reality is when that

quality is good the other people start

to get invited into the room they see

that like yeah this is I I can connect

to this especially when it's meaningful

and it's authentic and we really focus

on meaningful and authentic and

communityled work

and

this is one of the reasons why we have

you here. Uh, change the real. We love

to introduce our audience to amazing

change makers that are showing up

authentically and are actively trying to

change the real for people that look

like us, right? If folks want to know

more about how to work with you, what

where do they go? How how do they get a

hold of you? What's happening? How do

That's great. Uh um call. No. Um uh so

you can check out the site at a great

idea.com. You can follow us on all of

our social media channels at weagi. Uh

you can follow us uh on all those. We

also have a podcast called uh Power

Beyond Pride. And Power Beyond Pride uh

we have seven co-hosts from across the

country uh who interview career change

makers. Uh so you can check that out. So

uh I'm so glad to be here. I can't wait

to have you all on that. That'll be fun.

Um so we're going to do that. And uh

where else? Uh shanelucas.com if you

want to learn more about me,

opportunities to speak uh and I do

workshops.

really just interested in different ways

that partners want to have these

conversations around values. You can

also check out of course my second TED

talk. So there are two TEDex talks. Uh

one talks about uh why it's important to

hire people with sex work experience. Uh

and really thinking about that from a

destigmatization standpoint. And the

second one really talks about why values

conflict is so critical because we feel

that tension and we we know what to do

with it. So from an individual

standpoint, it's helping people

understand what to do with that feeling.

From a brand perspective, it's one of

the things I encounter the most when we

do brand strategy is that they really

come into conflict about what those

values are. Sometimes they have a lot of

legacy values and helping unpack that

and start to prioritize and organize and

really think about how to carry that

stuff through. So, you can learn more

about that at shanelucas.com as well.

And the book

and the book ah the book. So, the book

is out uh soon here. We're very excited

if uh this this may air around the time

it comes out. Um the advocacy advantage

is really a guide to start thinking

about how to see the value in advocacy

as well as the measurable impact of that

advocacy.

And when I give it, who do I give it to?

Oh, you give it really to uh whether it

is your uh you know uh CEO, your

executive director, uh your marcom team,

anybody who's really dealing with the

storytelling and the story sharing

component of your organization because

we're looking on we're looking to how we

can encourage more advocacy centric

brand building because that is again

that two-way system when you're building

advocates rather than just donors or

people who access services, right?

you're building advocates, then you're

really building individuals invested in

your organization. And that is what we

want to see more of. And to do that

meaningfully and authentically also

means the organization being vulnerable

to that feedback and making sure that

you're able to respond and hear that

feedback and see your audiences and your

community members as the wholeness and

fullness that they are.

I love that. Thank you, Shane.

Thank you.

We've had such a good time. I love

listening to you talk. I love listening

to smart people.

I do. I do.

You're very kind. I it's such a joy to

Monique Piper. It's such a joy to be

able to spend time with you. Um and

thank you for these questions. It's it's

uh it's wonderful to be able to reflect

on over 10 years of work. And so thank

you for for having for for having this

show. And uh thank you everybody who's

uh hearing this and thank you um for the

opportunity to be here today.

Yep.

We'll see y'all next time.

See you next time. [music]

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