Liver pathology draws curiosity as both a clinical discipline and a lens for encountering the unknown. Its practice of looking without preconception speaks meaningfully to how we meet the mysteries at the edges of a life.

In this conversation, we visit with Neil Theise and explore the relationship between diagnostic training and beginner's mind. We look at how staying present with what's in front of us reveals more than what we already expect to find.

We also discuss the difference between dying as decline versus dying as transformation, and the nature of end-of-life visions as glimpses of a wider consciousness. And we look at the deeper role of simple presence, an invitation our loved ones are so rarely given.

Listen in for a discussion on consciousness, attention, and acceptance, and what it means to stay open to the extraordinary within the ordinary currents of caregiving and loss.