Raw music industry chat from the dubbed 'Godfather of UK Hip-Hip' Rodney P.

He shares his frank thoughts about the business, how it affects the music and what artists should do to safeguard their career. We discuss the pros and cons of Spotify: is it good or bad for the music industry? We also hear about Rodney's days as part of seminal UK Hip-Hop group London Posse and how he got fired from the band!

Rodney is an English MC and media personality who first gained attention in the 1980s. Also known as The Riddim Killa, he inspired a generation of artists by being the first rapper to use an authentic London accent.

Over the years, Rodney has produced a homegrown Hip Hop vibe rooted in the UK and has worked with everyone from Rootz Manuva and Pharaoh Monch right through to the Brand New Heavies and Bjork. He’s also hosted a raft of radio shows and documentaries for the BBC.

BWB is powered by Oury Clark

Hello and welcome to Business Without Bullshit.

I am Andy Orian alongside me as.

So where did that voice come from?

Hello.

Hello.

It's not podcast on, it's not a telephone voice.

I swear to God if he can't get the first sentence out, there is no hopes.

No, it's been a really, it has been a really tricky week.

I have to say Hello and welcome to Business Without Bullshit.

I am Andy Orrie, and alongside me is my co-host Pippa Stir.

Hi, Andy.

Hello, Pippa.

This episode is part of a mini series of episodes about the music business, talking to pivotal figures in the industry, and we couldn't have a better first guess.

Rodney p, if you don't know who he is, is considered the godfather of UK hip hop, amongst many other great accolades.

And he's also one of my favorite rappers.

And so we are honored to join by Rodney.

How you doing?

How you doing, bro?

How you doing?

How you doing?

Andy?

How you doing?

Pip, nice to see you.

Good, thanks.

Is it hard being really, really cool?

And also father.

Because your family do not think of you that way.

Right, exactly.

Like exactly.

And plus my son just turned 18, so my, my, my first born just turned 18.

So he has his friend circle who know me as the artist, but surely think everything you do is slightly lame cuz he's your kid, right?

Yeah, exactly.

So like, sometimes his friends will say, yeah, your dad's quite cool.

And he'll be like, no he's not.

You know?

And then like, I took my daughters, there's an exhibition at the moment in the Sachi Gallery.

He's celebrating the 50 years of hip hop, which is this year.

Yeah.

And I'm in quite a few sections of it.

Nice.

I thought, let me take my picture.

So you wander around for you.

Yeah.

You know, not a big arrow.

They couldn't care less like it was, so, you know, but, but it's, but that is also quite freeing, so I don't have to be Rodney p at home, I.

No, I come, I'm just dad.

Like, yeah.

You know, he often gets overlooked and abused.

Did you stand, did you, did you stand near your bit and just sort of wait around a bit?

Hope, hope somebody notices you, someone on to just, you know, just have a pen ready.

Yeah.

But it didn't happen.

Alright, so now let's d let's delve into that a bit more.

I mean, I know music's obviously, uh, been your life, but, you know, what do you, what do you think is bullshit in the music business right now?

I think the music business is, Pretty much bullshit and always has been.

And there's a separation between the music and the business.

Just always been the case.

And I think that within the business it's this so snidey and, and corrupting that it often affects the artistry.

And I think when, when, when musicians are forced into positions where they have to.

Work out the business.

It affects the artistry and, and you can't trust many people.

I mean, the amount of groups and individuals that I've seen, just as you said, implode cause they could no longer trust each other.

And, and it's simple things like one member of the group will speak with a publisher who will give them an insight to how publishing works and when they come back to the rest of the group.

They were trying to sign all of their publishing instead of saying, you know, this is how it works and this is where the money is and this is where we can all like build some legacy for our kids when we are dead.

They'll then come and sign everyone else's publishing to their new publishing deal, like, or new publishing company that they've just, uh, and I think it's that.

Lack of willingness to share the information, but why is that?

Is that the publisher nudging them in that direction, or is that just the greed of man?

Oftentimes.

Oftentimes you get nudged in that direction and then the GRE of man takes over.

Everyone's a teeny, tiny bit of a bastard, basically.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Pretty much.

Which is exactly the same in a law firm or an accounting firm or any other business.

Right.

Ex.

Well, exactly, and, and the thing with the music business is that you have to work within all of those.

You need a lawyer.

You need an accountant.

You need.

Tom, Dick, Harry, Peter, Jane, and Paul, like these people who cover all of these distant A they're different aspects of your career, but it's all a, it's still like a, a shark pool.

It's a shark pool that, that doggie dog.

Yeah.

And aveley.

All I want to do is make this music.

I just wanna make this music and be able, be able to connect with this audience and be able to trust what you are telling me.

Like I'll be able to trust that you have my best interests at heart.

And that's very rare.

You know, it's funny when you go back and you think of something like Sun Records, he did what?

Johnny Cashel.

It's like, you know, fuck this, you know, you, you could take the point of view.

This guy was just incredibly discovering people.

You could also take the point of view.

There's a shitload of talent out there and if you've got a good ear, you can pick up the good ones, you know, and you can put them together and you can make them.

But then, but then like someone like Elvis, okay, Elvis is, is rated as the greatest rock and world star of all time and.

We could debate that.

Yeah.

But look at someone like Elvis or the Jackson family or whoever it is.

These super successful artists, they've all been so controlled and managed.

None of them were ever really free.

If you look at even like Mariah Carey, who who married Tommy motto, so she's in this bubble where her, her major success was while she was being controlled within this bubble.

And once she broke out of that, the success she's been successful with, never.

The artist that she was, you know, Michael Jackson's a bit different than like, you know, but even Elvis was the same.

His, his manager was in control of every aspect of his career while he was really Elvis through the fifties and the sixties.

And that's, not much has changed.

Now, there's, you, you, you may see the face of the artist out front, but there's always a machine that has to push it and.

Then you, without knowing, you don't know if that artist is actually in control of their business or they're being controlled and just being put out at the front.

If you look at someone like Britney Spears who was so amazingly successful, but then what happened with her losing control of her, a ability to control her own destiny and her own wealth.

Now maybe at some point she may have needed that.

When, when do you allow them to take back their life?

Why do, why does it take so long?

The problem is a lot of them are so young, aren't they?

Yeah.

Like when, you know, if you get superstars at kind of 17 or 16.

Yeah.

But you dunno what the fuck you're doing and so you allow somebody to control you.

And then how do you, as you, you know, become the person you are, how do you.

But that's control that, that's what I mean when, when you, when you allow someone to control you and I, and I get that, but if you get a manager, you want your manager to handle all of that for you.

You don't wanna have to be concerning yourself if all of that stuff, because your manager's there to do it, but how much faith can you then have, okay, I'm 17, but now I'm 25, 26, 28, and I'm looking back thinking a lot of that stuff wasn't done with my intentions that the sent are.

It was done with, you know, he's got a new car, haven't it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, so that's, that's the bit about the industry I've always had.

I mean, isn't that the nasty cross section between art and money?

It's always gonna be an uncomfortable, yeah, and I mean, we're, we're talking about music, but I guess you could apply it to anything.

Well, I mean, the controlling is really complex, isn't it?

Because, you know, maybe that's what sells.

So if you're in a business together and we, and say you were good at doing drawings or something, and we sold one, and then it'd be like, Oh, you know, I wanna do these other drawings over here.

It's like, no, no, no.

People like the drawings of the, you know, the, see, that's part of the problem though, man.

That's the way I'll say the business and the art get messed up because I don't like, I'm still talking.

For me personally, I can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't want to be, and I wouldn't allow myself to be put in a position where I have to keep remaking the same thing over and over and over because it's sold the first time.

Yeah.

And presumably that's diminishing returns anyway, because, Yeah, it will sell less each time.

Yeah.

Each time it will sell less.

It just keep promoting and, and, and the, and like the marketplace will tell you that, but oftentimes, like you just said, like, um, people put out a cause stuff because it sells.

Actually.

If you are controlling what you're putting out, then you are controlling what sells rather than free up the marketplace and let the people decide, here's, here's our, our batch of creativity for this year.

You tell us what you'd like rather than the record label saying, well, you know, this album of yours did really well.

We want something that sounds like that.

Or that person who's your competitor, they made an album that sold really well.

We want you to make an album that sounded like this.

That's for me, it's horrible feel.

I mean, nowadays it feels like the, you know, Are so easy to be able to express yourself.

And I mean, the software's ridiculous now, so you can do it all yourself.

So you can just be as creative as you want.

Uh, uh, you know, you might make the mistake of trying to make something that you thinks that sells rather than just following your heart and making something that you like.

But it's a sort of, there's just so much out there.

So there's just this sort of saturation.

If I say it a different way, it's like, I have this city theory.

It's like, look, if you wanna work down the sewer, you should get 200 pounds an hour because it's a shit job.

Nobody wants to do it.

And you could be like, fuck, I need some money.

I'm gonna go work down the sewers.

And never be like, fair enough, I think it should be slightly more than 200 pounds.

Now that's pick a number.

Yeah, it should be a lot of money.

You know?

And then you'd say, well, I wanna be a rockstar.

And you'd say, oh, that's a penny penny a week.

You know, it's like everyone wants to do it.

My point is, is you know, it's so incredibly hard to make a living in it because it sort of should be because we all wanna do it.

We all wanna do it.

It is hard to build a career and even know that you are, you are able to have a career.

But, so, and again, that goes back to the artistry of it.

People who do this thing, like, and I don't just mean make music, I mean, you know, paint pictures or you know what, whatever it is you do for a living.

I think one of the most important things you should do is like it.

You, you need to like it.

And, and if you like it and you have a passion for it, then you are gonna push through those walls that are, that are either purposely set or just, you know, part of the process, part of the journey.

But you're gonna push through them because your passion will get you there.

But if you, if you're only doing this because you know, you saw your favorite on team with, on, on, on the TV with a gold chain that you really liked and you want one like that.

Probably ain't gonna make it to the finish line unless you get really dusty.

Also, do we have to make money?

I mean on my big thing with friends and stuff is like there is no better the, if you like making music, if that brings you sense in the world, you know you can be on your own.

I like an actor you've gotta do on a stage.

Sure, performing's great, but you can make music on your own.

And just listening to it back is, so for me it's like step one therapy, should we address the whole Spotify thing?

And streaming I think definitely serves a purpose.

Now there's no putting the genie back in the book.

No.

My thing is that one of the things that bothers me, okay, cause I'm a simple accountant, this company is losing half a billion a year.

Yeah.

You're not a simple accounter.

You've gotta pick weird.

Account yourself up.

I'm a weird accountant.

Big yourself up, bro.

Odds, international accountant.

Anyway.

It's losing half a billion a year.

Okay.

That's a lot of money.

And there's, the argument is there's all these people, they're fucking the artists now.

I, I'm just simple.

It's like, well, they ain't getting fucking rich.

There may be some people earning big salaries.

Okay.

And that may, that was one of the arguments someone gave me.

Wow.

The so-and-so's on half a million quid's running the company.

It's like, I mean, what, what do you want me to say?

You know, uh, um, it's not perfect, but it is a marketing tool now, but until it's making lots of money, I mean, this has just been a key theme I've just seen a lot, a lot of times and I've often been on both sides of the fence or seen it, is that the, the general perception.

Another example is Taylor Swift.

You know, Taylor Swift was plucked from obscurity when she was 16 olds by this guy, I forget his name of.

Who made, I mean, this guy made no fucking doubt about it.

Yeah.

And it happens often.

And, and, and when he was 35 or he got four?

Well, how, I dunno how old he was.

She was 35, 10, 15, 20 years later when he was all successful.

It was about five years ago.

Cause I had to, they asked me to comment on it as a attack.

Anyway, it doesn't matter.

But.

He, she, he had all these, um, all the publishing, all the rights.

He had own loads of stuff, but he paid for everything and she's a super fucking famous star.

And he sold the company to someone she hated.

Yeah.

So she went ape shit and on a social media, started a hate campaign against him.

He had death threats, he had things through the door, and it done in my world.

He done nothing wrong and, and the attitude of the public, and that's what I was asked to quote on the article, which is I really struggle with, is that, oh, Taylor Swift and being fucked over by a management.

I was like, oh, the fucking line.

I think oftentimes, I think oftentimes, That is the, um, the narrative that everyone's been fucked over.

Yeah.

And that's not always true.

Like, I've got friends who have, who've been accused of bad business because they were able to make lots of money and that ain't bad business.

Not bad in itself, man.

That's Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They didn't, you didn't steal, you didn't steal the money.

And if, if you fought somebody over to do it, that's then that's bad.

Yeah.

You'd like, well, how, how he made his money was he ran his label, he made money from everybody on the label.

And they all made a bit of money that he got a piece of, so in the end, he's got more money than all of you.

Yeah.

But that don't mean he fucked any of you.

Yeah.

And he was just running his business.

That can make you enemies in and of itself, which to me is ridiculous.

There, there's, there's a difference between being ripped off and someone doing good business and, and you have to recognize the fact that most people are gonna be self-serving.

You know, I'm not gun into a deal that I'm getting nothing out of that you are going to eat out of for the next hundred years.

You're very jealous too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That was the NWA story.

I, you know, I watched the film.

It's amazing.

You know what?

I love that film I've watched hundreds of times, but then I just got bothered about this narrative, about the guy said, I decided to look at, ah, it turns out the Jewish guy that gets all the shit in the film, He died a couple years after the film trying to sue.

He killed him.

Basically, his friends say, because the re it's exactly what he just said.

Who's that?

Jerry Heller.

Jerry Heller.

I met Jerry and he exactly what you said.

The reason that, um, I, I like what it was, what they did.

So it was the company and the money was put up by Eazy E, so his company got half.

Then basically the, the artist gets the other half and you explained it very simply.

It's all the stuff we know.

And then ice tea, not ice, ice cube.

Got, like, he wrote the lyrics of these, but he was one of the MCs, so he ended up, and he didn't write the music, so 50% went to Dre of the half, and then he would get a, a third or half, or sometimes a lot of the other 50%, but he'd end up with a much smaller slice and the rest of them.

And that's, and he was like, everyone was accounted for, everything was done and he got angry about it.

And that, see, I think, I think from the re from the research that I done, I agree with everything you just said.

The, the only thing I would say is that for Ice Cube, he did a lot more of the right end than he gets credit for.

And I think, and I think that's where a lot of his issues are, is that some of NWA a's biggest tunes, he actually wrote them, he wrote the words for the other MCs to rap.

Right, right.

Like in the film.

Like in the film.

So if with that in mind, Then actually he should have got a bigger share of the publishing.

Yeah, and I mean, the argument, he's probably, he's probably the most liked member of NWA as a mc.

He was, he was the one that everyone thought was the best mc.

But if you only wrote the same amount as everyone else, you only get the same as everyone else.

But if you wrote everyone else's lyrics too, then you deserve to get more.

Yeah.

Well I was about to say another thing of your other story, it's like, fucking someone give me a record that's been correctly done.

I mean, it's so hard to get, you know?

Right.

You know what the NWA thing goes back to?

To kind of what I said earlier about friends dis.

Not being friends anymore.

Jerry Heller was Zy E manager.

Yeah, he was an nwas manager.

Yeah.

Yeah.

NWA were then Scientific Ruthless Records, which was Zy e's.

Mm-hmm.

So it was a lot of ways Jerry Heller had this information.

He shared it with his artist.

The only person who's he works for is Eazy-E.

Yeah.

Eazy-E then took that information to the other guys and with this new knowledge and said, I'm signing all you guys.

He didn't say, you know what?

Here's this new knowledge, this is how we can do it so we can all be successful.

He said, I know a way I can put this money under my cap now from being a young artist to who I am now.

Um, take things for granted.

I've signed things that I regret signing, and as I sit here now, I would say, saw out your paperwork.

Did you, when you sign things you regretted, did you read them and not understand the reading?

I, I, I, again, this is going back to what I said earlier, make me putting faith in other people to have my best interests at heart.

And, and, and it's not always necessarily the fact that they tried to treat me, it's just the fact that they didn't know any better than I did.

Would you say to a client, cuz I would, I I try and say, read the fucking thing.

Yes.

And I, it drives me mad when clients rely on me.

To have read it because I've read it and I understand it, but I don't know that it's what they want unless they, you said it in a contract, as I know as well.

Like, like layman's terms.

Please.

Like how many years did you spend at university to learn how to read those contracts and actually understand?

I've seen none of them cuz I did ancient grief at university.

I didn't learn how to read.

But all you need to know about a contract, a British contract definitions at the start.

And then you've gotta read.

It's really slow to read.

It's just hard work.

And you've gotta read that and your, the sentence won't make any sense.

But then you've gotta look up, well, what's that word?

You look up the definition you got and it, and, and it often they're bad contracts that they're badly written, but you should be able, and you won't understand it all.

Yeah.

But you, you will read sentences that will say, you are gonna give all your money to the other band mate.

Basically, you work out or something and you're like, what the fuck is this clause?

But it's hard work.

It is hard work.

The most successful contracts, the most successful deals.

A ones where everybody feels like they didn't quite get what they wanted.

Right?

Like, you know, if there's one person, it's a no frustration.

No.

But if there's one person who feels they got overly happy, yes, absolutely.

I'm over the moon of this contract, gave me everything I needed.

But everyone else is a bit somebody else.

Everybody else is really, really pissed off.

But if everybody's like a tiny bit pissed off, you've got a perfect contract.

Right.

I have to say, contracts are the, an uncomfortable truth of business.

You know?

They, they, and in particular music, you probably do need to sort your paperwork out because it is very painful and no, probably about it, bro.

Sort the paperwork out, you know, it will come back to haunt you if you don't sort out the paperwork.

Yeah.

And, and we are talking about, you know, artistry and creativity, uh, earlier, you know, if you wanna, if you wanna mess up your artistry and creativity, Be footing about what's gonna come and get you through the pulse next week.

Like sort it out from day dot and you don't have to worry about it anymore.

And in, in business in general, you'll say to people, you know, this is never gonna happen, but we just, let's just provide for, you know, what you would do in that scenario.

And then if it ever comes up, you just turn to the page and you know what to do.

Right?

But people are so often.

Just save money by, you know, gentleman's agreement.

We'll just shake hands and blah, blah, blah.

And then six years later they're like, why did you let me do that?

Business Without Bullshit is brought to you by Ari Clark.

Straight talking financial and legal advice since 1935.

You can find us@ariclark.com.

We're gonna do like short and punchy.

Five second rule, quick answers.

Yeah.

Five second rule.

Yeah.

As in, you've got five second.

You can have a little bit longer.

I'm not gonna interrupt.

I might interrupt.

Andy will interrupt.

I, I know Andy have to know you.

Uh, so we're gonna get to know you a little bit better.

And, uh, we're just gonna, you know, whip through some questions, dq the music.

Go for it.

What was your first job?

Newspaper round.

Very nice.

What was your worst job?

Um, I used to do agency work in our, in a bottle in factory.

Horrible.

Oof, uh, favorite subject at school?

I wa I was a middle in kind of student, but I, I just, I enjoyed pe the most Outside playing British Bulldog or something.

Were you good at English?

Forgotten about what I was, I was, yeah, I was all right.

At most subjects.

I wasn't terrible at anything, but, um, I wasn't a particularly great fan of school generally either.

Yeah.

So, yeah, it's mixed.

Yeah, I could do a bit of all of it.

What, what's your special skill other than rapping?

I.

Special skill other than that, um, being able to take criticism and, and, and being able to talk quite straightly, like not feeling the need to sugar coat stuff, which a lot of people may not like, but, um, I think often in life you need to be told Yeah, straight.

I think sitting in front of a sin that says business without bullshit.

That's well said.

Do you know what I mean?

They're true indeed.

Oftentimes, you, you, you take criticism as motivation rather than shrinking into a corner.

Like, okay.

Okay.

I'll show you.

I'm gonna show you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like it's not, it's not something I get upset about.

And plus being in the music business, you get criticized so often.

For what you consider to be your greatest work.

Yeah.

And people will tell you it, it has no real value to them, but you have to be prepared to accept.

Yeah.

I wasn't feeling it.

I that's, yeah, I wasn't feeling it.

Yeah.

You know, didn't do anything.

No, I didn't really get, and you are like, but listen to the wordplay, the structure.

So yeah, you get, you get quite used to that, but then you, then it motivates you.

And then you do some shit song and I think it's brilliant.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That kind of happens too.

What did you want to be when you grew up?

Um, I had no idea.

Honestly.

Had no idea.

Being in the music industry and being an artist didn't seem very realistic.

It wasn't something that I even really thought about to be honest.

Um, it was more about getting a good job to please my mom.

Which leads us onto the, what did your parents want you to be when you grew up?

Anything successful?

Like lawyer, doctor, architect, like, oh, they're, they're all shit shelves.

They're all Yeah.

Poor in as hell.

I was never gonna be any of those things.

But that, that's what she wanted.

I mean, I was her last son, she, she, she rustled up the money to send me to private school.

Oh.

You know, she, she did everything she could.

You went to private school for three years.

No way.

Really?

And then I demanded, demanded to be taken out.

Yeah.

I, I, I couldn't take it anymore.

And was it the uniform?

Partly the uniform was horrible.

I had like a blue and yellow strip tie and like, it was terrible.

It was terrible.

I love this.

Next question for Rodney.

What's your go-to karaoke song?

Would you believe that?

I've never done karaoke in my life.

Oh, and we have a karaoke.

You want, there's literally one next door.

There's literally one next.

Um, if you provide me with more liquor, I'll be more than happy.

But, um, no, I've never done karaoke before, but it would be something soulful, something by a Stevie Wonder, or I can see that, can see that, you know, something real energetic and up for, that you'd wanna dance to.

So you just, this is feeling more like rich singing along with bit a lion Richie.

Yeah.

Yeah.

A bit of lion or Richie, that'd do it.

You know, like, yeah.

Something like that.

Can you sing hell or not?

Streaming platforms, business or bullshit?

I come from a generation where we used to actually make money from selling the actual, the actual vinyl product, and you could calculate how much you were earning.

So streaming, put streaming services to me seemed like absolute bullshit.

Like.

Where's the money gone?

But then I know there's a whole generation of young people who say they've discovered global audiences off tobacco streaming services.

So I would say they would say it's probably good business.

Um, I kind of sit in the middle.

Have you ever been fired?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you don't know this, but I actually got fired from the group that I was in.

Really?

London Posse?

Yeah.

Did you I got fired.

Did they sit you down and say it's time to go or sort of, yeah.

Sort of that's what were you doing?

You were being wild child.

No, no, no, not at all.

I, I think it was a very snake ish move actually.

See this, I've never ever, ever told this story before.

The group had kind of like, had, had, had, had done its thing, um, we had kind of gone our separate ways and then we were offered, um, a record deal by tricky, I dunno if you know, tricky.

He's a crystal artist.

Sure, sure.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

And he offered us a record deal.

And cause I knew tricky but Bionic didn't really know him.

So I put this, I sorted this, this stuff out, put it on the table.

We, we were paid our advance and all of that stuff.

And then I went to Thailand waiting for everything else to be sorted out.

And um, I went to Thailand for like two weeks.

I ended up staying like three months and then, and then when I came back I was called to a meeting in, in the Chelsea Harbor Hotel.

And in that meeting I was told that actually we are, we are changing the direction.

Yeah, you were changing that direction.

Me as you Yeah.

There's, you know, there's, we're we're bringing in some other people in your place and, um, yeah, you're out then what?

Then what happened?

It just died anyway.

Well, what had happened was I actually already had a, a, a solo deal in place.

I had put on hold to do like, it was gonna be like London Posse's last, who are, let's get back together and do this thing.

We can make this new album.

It'd be amazing.

And I put my solo deal on hold to do that.

So when this happened, and I'd already been feeling a bit uncomfortable within the situation, I knew that this wasn't playing out the way I, I, I had expected it to.

When it happened, I was, it actually released me because they didn't know that I was already in a situation myself.

So I walked out of the door thinking, okay, I'll go.

I'll go back and fulfill my contract.

And it was also, this makes me sound like a dickhead, but it was also good to watch.

Everything on that side.

Fuck up.

Yeah.

So you basically stood back and watched them implode.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Nice.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It was cool.

So it was, and, and I'll have to stress, Mike VA had already been paid and the check had already cleared, so I ain't given it back.

So that was all cool.

So I still had a a, a fair piece of the pie.

That's fairly swift karma by the sounds of it.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was, it was.

You also have to remember in London Poe, I was also the youngest.

How were you?

I was also the youngest, so, Early days, I was the quieter one.

I was definitely the quieter one, but as time passed, I became more vocal.

Definitely.

And I think, I think that may have been part of the problem, the fact that I'm, I'm not here.

You stopped being the kid.

Yeah.

I'm not here to just agree with other people's opinions.

I actually have on So Bloody Earth started talking back.

I know.

Cyril, we've gotta get rid of him.

Yeah.

Uh, what's your vice?

Mm.

You can pick one.

Well, well, I mean, I missed the mucky weekend.

Like, so I've, over the years, I've had a few vices.

You are Mr.

Mucky weekend isn't right Mr.

Mucky weekend.

There's a song by the dub pistols called Mucky Weekend, the I roll.

Um, and this is one of those Google Me moments.

Yeah, yeah, you can look it up.

Um, And it is, it is pretty much an autobiography of what most weekends were like.

Okay, so we've just gotta Google that and the rest, if can do that, you'll, you'll, you'll, you'll get a clearer understanding of, of where I've been over the years.

But that was, again, I can't say that was me forever.

That was a window of who I was very.

Lucky weekends.

That's it.

Thanks Rodney.

You're being absolutely brilliant.

Is there anything you wanna pitch or tell anyone about?

Um, you know what?

Yeah.

I've got a busy year coming.

You can check me on my Instagram, you can check me on my Spotify.

You can check me on my bank camp rather than checking me on Spotify.

I'd rather you check me on my bank camp because bank camp.

Actually offers you the opportunity to pay me some money.

So I spent, I, I set a really low press, but the money will come directly to me rather than me having to wait, like if I say, can you pay me one pound 50 for this song?

I don't know how many thousands, maybe millions of streams.

I would have to forget to earn that from Spotify, so I'd rather you check me on bank camp, but, but, but feel free to check me on Spotify too.

It's at Rodney Pcore UK on Instagram.

I have new music coming out constantly, Andy Nasda, um, and I have a huge back catalog, so feel free to go and check it out.

Fantastic.

Uh, so there you have it.

That was this week's episode of Business Without Bullshit and we'll be back.

Oh, thank you Pipper.

Thanks Rodney.

Thanks Dee.

And we'll be back with VW B on Thursday.