We named it last episode: drift. Not as a theory. but as a reality in schools. The slow, quiet slide away from what actually matters for students.

This episode pushes the question further.

If we know it’s happening, why do we keep allowing it? Because the truth is, drift doesn’t survive on ignorance. It survives on comfort, busyness, and avoidance. We stay active. We check the boxes. We keep things moving. But too often, that motion has nothing to do with real learning.

So we go there. Where are we complicit? What are we protecting? And what would it actually take to move from activity… to impact? This is the moment where awareness turns into accountability.

And it sets up our finale where we bring in student voices to tell us what all of this actually feels like on the receiving end.

Takeaways

• Drift is real and it’s impacting student learning right now
• Knowing the problem isn’t the same as addressing it
• Busyness often masks a lack of real impact
• Change starts with ownership, not awareness

Follow Students Matter, LLC on Instagram or LinkedIn — or find any of us there: Kathy Mohney, Michael Pipa, Dr. Alicia Monroe, and Dr. Grant Chandler.

Students Matter

LearnHarbor

Until Next Time Remember: See every student. Keep your doors open and your hearts even wider.

We said it out loud last episode.

Drift, not as an idea, but as a reality.

So here's the question.

We can't.

If we can see it, if we can name it, why do we keep allowing it?

Today isn't about the problem.

It's about us inside it.

A new episode of the Wheelhouse begins right now.

This is the a Students matter podcast.

I'm Dr. Grant Chandler along with the Wheelhouse team, my co hosts, Kathy Mone, Michael Piper, and Dr. Alicia Munro.

Last episode, we named something that's been hiding in plain sight.

Drift not as a theory, not as a buzzword, but as a pattern showing up in real schools, in real systems, impacting real students.

And if we're honest, most of us didn't hear anything new.

We already knew.

So today, we're not going to stay at that level of awareness.

We're going to ask a harder question.

If we can see the problem, why do we stay stuck in it?

Because until we answer that, nothing changes.

Let's get into it.

Good morning.

I'm Dr. Grant Chandler, and this is another episode of the Wheelhouse.

And I am really excited again to have conversations with my amazing team.

So Kathy is not able to be with us today.

So joining me in the Wheelhouse are my co hosts, Michael Pipa and Dr. Alicia Monroe.

Good morning.

Good morning.

Wow, that is such a beautiful duet.

How are you guys?

Oh, it's a good day.

It's wonderful.

It's only good.

That's right.

I was speaking to Kathy earlier today before she.

And she was like, oh, I really want to be there for this conversation.

And I was like, well, I'm sorry, but, you know, you got other things you got to do today, so go do them with a smile.

I said, and Michael and Alicia, they have it all under control, right?

All under control.

So, as always, fantastic to see you here.

It's great to do this work with you.

I thought we had last week a really interesting conversation, just the four of us, and we're going to continue that conversation today.

But I want to make a plug for the season finale because we've been talking about it forever.

We have K12 students joining us in the wheelhouse for the season 12 finale next week.

And I am way pumped to welcome them and to hear from them.

I've prepared five or six loaded questions to get their feedback.

And as we are putting all the logistics together for that, I'm just super excited that we are going to hear from Kate.

This won't be the last.

This will be the first, but not the Last right.

We're going to hear from several students in one location, and we'll meet other students as we continue this work, because I think it's important to hear the voices of those folks who are experiencing everything that we are trying to extend to them.

So I'm super excited.

So if you're listening, put April 28th on your calendar because that's when that episode drops.

You're not going to want to miss it.

There's nothing like that Gen Alpha energy in the space.

It's going to be absolutely spectacular because they will speak their truth.

I love it.

Can't wait.

I have no idea what they're gonna say.

I know what I'm gonna ask them.

Right?

And that's the beauty of that.

We're gonna hear from them.

And I think it'll just be.

When you think about all of the people that we've heard from this season, I think what a phenomenal way to end the season is by talking to the students, to the kids who are on the experiencing end of everything that we're trying to do.

So I'm super excited.

Today we're following up from our last episode, you know, and we called it Drift.

The title of the episode was Drift Theater and the Lie We Tell Ourselves.

I love that.

Very provocative title.

Clock it.

Clock it.

So, you know, we talked about drift not as a concept, but it's a reality.

Right?

And in the students matter ecosystem, we talk about Drift all the time systems that look like they're working, but students aren't actually learning at the level that we say they are.

And here's the uncomfortable truth.

Most of us already knew that, right?

We already knew that.

So the question isn't, what's wrong?

The question is, why don't we stay there?

And so.

I've prepared loaded questions for my team today that we're going to grapple with.

I've got four of them.

We'll see how many we get to.

Where do we see?

Where do you see?

Where do we see activity?

Or I'm going to call it busyness.

Right?

B U S Y ness.

Busyness.

It's a new word.

Where do we see activity or busyness mistaken for impact?

We get really busy in education, at least you talked about it last week.

You know, the calendar.

The calendar speeds all of us.

You know, it's like, wham, everything.

Ready, set, go.

We go, we're running 100 miles an hour.

Where do we often mistake that busyness for impact?

I think that strings to the whole school day.

What do you mean?

By that, Dr. Monroe, I'm glad you asked.

Actually without purpose, right?

If we're not all on the same page.

And we always talked about shared vision and collective insight and moving forward.

One band, one sound, moving forward in the same cadence and rhythm.

You could take snapshots of the day and see the disconnects.

And that's not at the fault of educators.

It's just the default of the educational system that it actually moves us into a space where we're always reactive.

And those proactive thoughts and perspectives and ideas can't even land to take root because something else is plucking it up.

So an honest response to your question as we move through schools all the time is that it happens from the time we're taking attendance in the morning and the morning announcements and welcoming students into the time the last student leaves the campus or puts their foot on the step of the bus.

Right?

So it's amazing that this has become our new normal.

I do a lot of coaching as Alicia and Michael, you do too, right?

We all do this.

We do a lot of coaching of teachers and principals and central office folks.

So I'm thinking about all of the conversations that I have had over the years with principals, and it's amazing to me.

It's amazing to me how many of them, when we talk about their calendar and we talk about their work days, and they'll say, oh, oh.

Or it usually leads.

It usually starts with, so tell me why you love this job, right?

And they'll say, because I never know what's coming next.

And that leads to the conversation around, so how do you plan your calendar and how do you plan your day?

Well, I really don't because my day is very reactive, right.

I respond to everything that happens, right?

I respond to everything that happens.

And of course.

Of course.

Right, of course.

But I just had this conversation with the principal, and I said, let's think about the last 30 days of your of work, of the school year.

You've been in reactive mode every single moment of every single day.

And I'm not saying you shouldn't be doing those things, but if we stay in the busyness mode, when do you become proactive and how do you move?

How are you moving?

You're building forward if you're constantly, always in reactive mode.

And it was like, oh, my gosh.

Oh, my God, you're absolutely right.

You're absolutely right.

I mean, he starts reacting in the car on his way, and he doesn't stop reacting until his head hits the pillow at night, right?

Obviously, principles are.

It's more than a, you know, eight hour day.

So that busyness, right, that busyness we mistake for high impact often.

Yeah.

Or for the job itself.

Flexibility and reaction ends up being the job itself.

And, you know, I'm thinking about the tension between work that is vocational in nature, happening within a system that is entirely bureaucratic.

And so you're constantly having to serve two masters.

And if you don't intentionally create structures that are daily and weekly, then forget it.

Because the inertia of the bureaucracy of those responsibilities is just gonna take the lead.

It's just gonna take the lead.

And then to top that, you have to stand, I always say, ten toes down.

Right.

And take that risk, as we've talked about in previous episodes, take that risk of saying no.

I do appreciate that this is the mandate at the time, but this is what I really need to do for my students and have the evidence to support that.

Oftentimes educators have this intuition, but then where's the data and the evidence to support the decisions that you're making?

Validate that this is what we need to do right now.

And then maybe as an educational administrator, we could have a different conversation.

That means a lot.

Right.

How many times are you logging student performance?

Right.

Where are you getting the ideas about behaviors?

Not naming the behaviors, but describing them so that we can really understand where the, where they're supposed to.

What bucket they go in.

You know, it takes.

This stuff is reciprocal.

So everyone has to own that intentionality, accountability, and the role they play in building a community where there is collective understanding, shared vision, and shared responsibilities.

And as a building leader, if.

If I have an instructional professional come to me and say, you know, here's what my gut is telling me, but I don't have any evidence other than the anecdotal evidence to support that person has me at.

Here's what my gut is telling me.

At that point, I want to step forward as a thought partner and say, let's have some conversation about what kind of data we might be looking for, what might be the indicators that will support what right now is a gut feeling, but probably has a lot more substance than simply a gut feeling.

So let's talk about that.

Like that.

That, to me is also our job.

It's not simply that we say, hey, without the data, you're just another person with an opinion.

It's joining in that inquiry and supporting it as a thought partner.

Absolutely.

I always ask, what do you see here and feel?

What do you see here and feel?

Help me Help you.

And then we deconstruct and unpack together.

Well, you know, so it's all about that partnership.

But if we're gonna have a partnership, we have to be in relationship with each other.

We've talked about the importance of healthy collegial relationships.

You mentioned, Alicia, three words that I thought were really, really important.

Let's see if I can remember them now.

Right?

Only three?

Well, you know, three keywords, right?

Three keywords.

Intentionality, accountability and role.

And I thought those were really, really important words just to make sure they don't get, you know, a quick listen.

Right.

As the conversation continues.

Because, you know, when we think about impact, not busyness, you think about impact.

I think those three words are really important, right?

Because it demands.

Impact, demands a level of intentionality.

Right?

It demands thinking, stopping the madness, even if it's just in your head and thinking proactively about where you want to go and what you want to do and how are you going to get there there.

It's about accountability, you know, and not the state's accountability.

It's about our own personal and professional accountability to students and to impacting what they experience.

And then, of course, role.

I just think those are three.

You threw them out there.

And I was like, oh, I wanna.

I just wanna.

I wanna.

We can't bold italics them because this is audio.

So I'm doing that now.

Right.

I think those are three really important words that we need to all think about.

Right?

Intentionality, accountability and role.

When.

When we started to open up and Michael, you started to speak and Grant, you posed a question.

Oftentimes when I sit in spaces, our educators don't see themselves as leaders.

And then as we deconstruct that whole leadership paradigm, we realize that even though leader is not necessarily part of our titles, we lead.

And in leading, how are we adaptive?

I think about the work Grant, you and I do, and we really get in and we have that deep conversation around adaptive leadership and the great work that you're doing around tactical leadership.

Are we adaptive and are we tactical?

Are we being strategic?

Not to the point where we're transactional, but truly transformational in our vision and our activities.

Right.

Vision into action.

But then, are we really adaptive?

That means that we're able to morph without pushback or push back with the data supported for that.

Are we having those type of intentional exchanges so that we work smart and not work hard?

Work smart means that we're optimizing.

Work hard means that we may be spinning wheels and going nowhere.

Busyness B U S Y N E.

S S and busyness is often compliance in nature as well, is it not?

Absolutely.

You know, in a profession where it doesn't get more complex and elusive, it's very satisfying to spend a day cutting the grass so you can see the nice even rows you make of taking care of the bureaucratic tasks of making sure we are in compliance and holding that up as the ultimate mission.

Because compliance is comfortable, we don't have to rock the boat, we don't have to have difficult conversations, we don't have to look in the mirror, we don't have to ask students what the impact is.

Right.

And because non compliance is uncomfortable.

So let's not forget that too.

Oh yeah, absolutely.

Yep.

Compliance is complicit.

That means that everything stays status quo.

Right.

That means whoever gets it, gets it and whoever doesn't, there's going to be a narrative that's going to support why they didn't get it.

Instead of being uncomfortable to try to make them get it or help them to get it or meet them in the middle so that they can achieve their full potential.

Right.

So that word compliance, it kind of raises hairs on my head, right?

Yes.

Because it is so transactional and the deficits grow larger and larger and we start to lose our students.

Compliance doesn't allow for fail forward moments which are so intrinsically important and critical to the teaching and learning process and the student experience.

You know, compliance means that we are widgets and if we don't fit the mold and conform, then so be it.

Right.

We're thrown away in the bin.

I always call it the land of the misfit toys.

Right.

So I want us to really think about who we're serving.

What type of conversations are we having around who our educators and scholars are and is it really healthy and collegial?

Are we really interrogating the space where uncomfort, I mean discomfort and that uncomfortability becomes our norm?

That's who's sitting in our seats and that's who's standing in our classroom.

So it's not just our scholars that are suffering, our educators are suffering as well.

And so to combat this transactional herding nature of schooling, which we know isn't working right, if we ask, we're going to ask students that next week.

We're not going to ask it that way because that would be a leading question and that would be unfair.

But I can imagine that they are going to want to talk about a new way.

Right.

A different way.

I'm sure they don't like being herded.

They may use different words, right?

We've had other students on our show tell us, you know, we don't like being herded.

We want to be seen, we want to be heard, we want to be valued.

We have new teachers going into the field that understand the importance of being seen, being heard, being valued, mattering.

What are leaders not doing that you think they should be doing?

When we think about busyness and we think about compliance and we think about drift, right?

Hey, we know there's a difference.

We know there's a difference between what we want children to experience and what they currently are, right?

That's drift.

That's the lie we tell ourselves from last week's episode.

We think about our conversation with leaders.

What are they not doing that they should be doing?

When I, when I think about that question, I think first about educational leaders who are dynamic leaders in my professional experience.

So I come at that thinking, well, those leaders who I've always admired, whose work is transformational, what are they doing on a regular basis and to a person, those women and men have consistently been asking themselves all throughout every single workday, how does this connect with our purpose?

And if the connection isn't immediate, then why are we doing this?

And do we have to work harder to understand that connection?

But once it's there, how do we make it evident for all of us?

And when I see leadership asking those kinds of questions, I know the building is ultimately going to experience work that is healthy and vibrant and nourishing.

But all too often our leadership work gets, you know, narrowed and defined as, you know, these are the things that are most important.

They're compliance centered.

And, you know, these are the have to's, and we need to make sure that we get the have to's done and educational leadership takes a backseat.

That's kind of how I approach that question.

So as we have these conversations in school spaces as leaders, whether they are district administrators or school based leaders, we have these conversations.

And the question is, as an extension of what you shared, Michael.

Well, how do we do this in relation to what we're being asked to do?

And I look at it in terms of roi, return on investment, and if we're looking at this formula, more of the same will get you more of the same.

So are we committed to moving the needle?

Are we committed to this purpose that this mission statement so claimed about 30 years ago and you've never revisited it?

I mean, what are we doing?

And what we want is that we walk our talk so if we are developing good citizens, because I find that to be in some place in every mission statement I've seen, we want to develop these students to be.

Then who are the good citizens of today?

And how do you define good?

Right.

We have to have those questions.

And are good citizens all citizens or good citizens through your perspective, or are we defining good citizens through full potential?

I mean, this is a hard question to ask.

So I flipped it on its side as well.

Michael.

And I said, well, we have to really understand our intent, and we have to be truthful.

And I mentioned.

I literally quoted Shakespeare the last time.

Right.

Hamlet, to thine own self be true.

Right.

So, I mean, let's be real.

If we gonna do it the same way, to just say we gonna do it the same way, and we're gonna be compliant and we're gonna be transactional.

But don't, please.

Especially in spaces where I.

Where I push in and reside for a while in coaching.

Please don't say that you're transformational or transformative.

You're custodial.

You're custodial.

You're transactional.

Like Grant said, you're compliant.

And you're not showing up for each and every student, because our student base is beautifully diverse.

There is a mosaic.

So you're not showing up for every.

Okay, so then we will get you to be great transactional leaders.

I want us to be clear with the vision, as I said earlier, the role.

Right.

The intentionality.

And how are we going to hold each other accountable?

Great question.

I've just developed a leadership pathway.

So I was just thinking as you guys were talking.

The whole pathway is based on a leader.

And when I say leader, I mean teacher leader, coach leader, principal leader, superintendent leader.

It doesn't matter.

Right?

Doesn't matter.

Your role is insignificant.

Right.

You just have a different level of influence, but really, really understanding, really thinking through what Alicia just said.

Right.

Which is, what's your purpose?

Not what the school's vision statement is or what the district's mission is.

What is your purpose as a leader?

And then this whole pathway that we've developed is about how do you get there, and most importantly, how do you take people with you?

You can't do it alone.

And so I think a lot of.

Just to echo what you both said, I think the difference between a highly successful leader, again, defined leader any way you want, and the one who is not so high, doing fine.

But whatever I think is the presence or absence of purpose, and then the leader who.

And then once you identify purpose the next question that's really obvious that you guys have both hinted around and said differently is how badly do you want it and what are you willing to do to get there?

Yeah, you're going to have to fight for it.

Right.

Because it ain't easy.

Right.

It's not easy.

Transforming education for each and every student so that they can be successful and have infinite potential and a broad number of opportunities after we finish with them.

Right.

That's hard work that requires a level of intentionality, to quote Alicia, a level of accountability and certainly understanding role.

I'm thinking and I'm thinking aloud.

You both know me well, right?

So that really harkens back to the whole, the whole focus of why we sit on Tuesdays and share our voices.

The humanizing approach to education.

The school's education as an enterprise is very different than other places.

Right?

Because our product are good citizens, human beings.

We're not producing widgets.

This is not an assembly.

Now, we're not in the industrial era, so that's not what we do.

We produce Mary and Alice and Jose and Maria and Jquan and, and Shaniqua.

We produce in all of them.

And all of them are very diverse human beings.

So how do we uplift the humanity in the space?

Because if we're talking about humanity and as schools, we are en loco parentes, we are the parents.

When students during the school day, then how are we parenting our scholars?

Right?

And I'm telling you as a principal, it's not only how you parenting the scholars, it's how you parenting those teachers.

You know, I mean, let's keep it real.

We talk about truth.

I mean, there is so much brokenness because of environmental factors that we don't control.

How do we have those conversations and still move the needle?

It can be done, but it takes a lot of work.

Like you said, Grant.

But if you have Michael, everyone committed one band, one sound to the same goal, then we can move in cadence together as a collective.

I'm reminded of how quickly and easily school leaders can redirect and reshape through just a, a different frame, a principle that I, I remember observing and, and following when I was first in academic leadership study, Jim Dillon, he, I, I asked him, you know, how do you know your building is on the right track?

How do you know your learning community is thriving?

And I expected, you know, that he would take some time to.

There was no hesitation.

He said, you're familiar with dismissal.

What do the kids do when they leave the building?

I said, they run to the Buses.

He said, you know, you got a good building when they're running into the school with the same exuberance, that's what I'm looking for.

And the conversations he had every single day with learners from every corner of his building, asking them, not only what did you learn today, but what learning has happened today or this week that has gotten you excited?

That felt fun.

Can you tell me what and why?

He was always having that conversation with students.

He was always having that conversation with the adults in the building.

And those conversations produced a growing body of information and knowledge that was really actionable.

That is what guided that leader.

There was his purpose, right?

There was his purpose.

He was living into.

He was living into his purpose into his North Star, and he was bringing people with him.

And he knew what it looked like.

He knew what it looked like because he was talking and in conversation all the time with learners from every sector of his community.

But the system has to be ready for purpose and intention of leaders.

And I don't.

That paradigm shift is really slow.

And sometimes there's a want, but there's no effort.

There could be a false start and then there's no resilience.

What underlies the energy for purpose is passion.

You hear that Every time we speak, there's passion, there's commitment, there's a vibe of we gonna make this happen regardless.

That's grit.

And oftentimes we come in, but whether it's two or three years in, I see the grit wane.

Because that.

That burden is heavy.

Day in and day, I think about Rhonda Simli.

You know, that burden is heavy.

And it takes somebody with that kind of commitment and power and passion to every day be ready to look her community in the face and engage in.

What are we going to do today that lines up with our dreams?

What are we going to get done today?

And that it is so much easier to narrow the job scope.

It is so much easier and it is so much more challenging to do the work with passion, fueling purpose and to know what that North Star is and to not relinquish it.

And I'll bet you I know the answer to what I'm going to say.

And I'll bet you that there are days.

I won't speak for Rhonda, but I'm going to sort of.

I'll bet you there are days when Rhonda Simli feels defeated.

Oh, yeah, right.

When the transactional herding nature of a district swoops in or of a state or of this system, we live In, Right.

That really, really knocks us off our game.

But you know what?

I know that there are those days because those would happen to any of us, right?

Those would happen to any of us.

But I also know that Rhonda has someone to reach out to who can help her.

Sometimes it's just a listen, sometimes it's a shoulder, sometimes it's a question, right?

So you think about these leaders.

One of the other things that I think leaders aren't doing, that they need to do is to do exactly what Rhonda has done, which is find someone to help keep you on your path.

Who's going to be my champion?

Who's going to be my champion?

I know who hers is.

She's in the room here.

She's in the room.

But I mean, think about.

We've just.

We've been talking about how hard this work is, right?

How easy it is for compliance to take over, for transaction to take over, to get lost in the busyness.

B U S Y N E S S Right?

It's so easy.

It's so easy.

And I say this to people that I work with.

I'm like, hey, it's okay.

Right?

I don't have it.

I'm not running a district, so I have the luxury of sitting here helping you get back on track.

I don't have a board meeting tomorrow.

I don't have.

I don't have all of these other commitments that you have that are operational, that are transactional in nature.

My job is simply to help you get back, to reconnect with purpose.

Right.

And to help you pick up the pieces when you get waylaid.

Right.

When your energies get pushed in another way.

I think everyone, every leader, regardless, again, of role, every leader needs a champion.

I want to season that and change it or add to it.

Every learner.

Oh, oh.

Because I feel like in the end, what we're asking of ourselves and of the youngest ones in our charge is what does it mean to be good at living?

Because if we're going to chase the widget model of success, the evidence is overwhelming and it's been in for decades, that that leads to emptiness.

We're after, what does it mean to be good at living?

And how does the skillfulness that we encounter and the skillfulness challenges we encounter in learning, how does that help us become individuals who are good at living?

And what does that mean to be good at living?

Because I think when we ask that question, everybody's going to have something to say about that.

But that's a fertile field of reasons why that's a fertile field of purpose.

That one is inexhaustible.

Everyone needs a champion.

Find yours.

Every leader needs a champion.

Every teacher needs a champion.

Every kid needs a champion.

Wouldn't the world be a different place.

I say this often, right?

Wouldn't the world be a different place if every.

If everyone had one.

If everybody had one of those champions?

If our children were not seen as test scores, but as whole children.

And if they came to believe that they were distinctive and irreplaceable today, not when they become a successful adult today.

And with that, my dear friends, we have paved the way for the finale of season 12, where we will get to talk to some K12 students and hear what they think about what they want to experience and how different that may or may not be with what they currently experience.

And so we'll see you next week for an exciting conversation and the finale of season 12 in the wheelhouse.

Have a good week.

And that's a wrap of episode nine of season 12.

A special thank you to the Wheelhouse team, Kathy Mone, Michael Pipa, and Dr. Alicia Munro.

If this conversation hit a little too close, that's the point.

Drift isn't something we fix with a new initiative.

It's something we interrupt with different choices.

And that leads us to the final question of this season.

Not what's wrong, not even why it happens, but what it actually takes to build something better.

Next episode, we'll find out.

And this time, we're putting our ideas in front of the people who experience our systems every single day.

Students, we'll see you next week for the exciting finale of season 12.

Don't miss it.