In this episode, Nike purchases virtual shoe company RTFKT that makes NFTs and other products for the metaverse, NFTs launched by Adidas Originals after the company buys a plot of land in The Sandbox, the founder of The Sandbox says big technology companies are a threat to the metaverse, Gala Games and C² Ventures launch a $100M fund for blockchain gaming, and so much more!
From the boardroom to the metaverse, this is the meta business podcast. I Paul Dawalibi. The
Unknown:master of the metaverse will lead you through the biggest business stories in the metaverse. Join us
Unknown:as we break down the news and trends from the C suite lens, bringing you insights, analysis and
Unknown:discussion that you can't find anywhere else. Every single week. Welcome to metta business.
Unknown:Welcome to episode four of the metta business podcast. I am Paul master of the metaverse
Unknown:Dawalibi. I'm joined today by my friend my co host, Jeff the juice Cohen. None other than Jeff
Unknown:the juice Cohen I should say, Jeff, you're like you're famous. Now I have people telling me how
Unknown:much they love the juice is everything I ever wanted.
Unknown:For those of you guys who are new here, just a little reminder, because the podcast is new. What
Unknown:we do here is we cover all the biggest stories that intersect the worlds of business and what
Unknown:we're calling the metaverse or people are calling web three. So real focus on the business news and
Unknown:stories coming from the metaverse and web three worlds and everything that intersects sort of
Unknown:blockchain and gaming. So if this is what you're interested in, you're in the right place. And we
Unknown:welcome you, Jeff, we've got a ton of news to cover this week, some some holdover themes from
Unknown:last week. So there's, you know, similar players in the news this week. And and I think we should
Unknown:start with maybe I don't know if this is the biggest news this week, but I thought it was the
Unknown:most interesting. And the picture
Unknown:here is definitely the most interesting. Let me let me share this screen here. For those who are
Unknown:watching. If you're listening to this, I'm sorry, you don't get to see this. But, but this is Nike
Unknown:in the news. And, and the headline here was Nike just bought a virtual shoe company that makes NF
Unknown:T's and sneakers for the metaverse. The company is called. I'm gonna pronounce it. It's not the way
Unknown:it's spelled. It's called artifact. Er, but it's spelled RT fkT. They make shoes too except they
Unknown:only exist digitally. These are NF T's. They are digital shoes that are designed to be worn
Unknown:digitally in the metaverse.
Unknown:Jeff, what do you make of this acquisition? I guess what are some of the big thoughts? This is
Unknown:Nikes. First, you know, we talked about Nike land last week. But this is the first acquisition I
Unknown:think that they've done that touches the metaverse, right like they they have done some
Unknown:things that are more web three. They're more Metaverse related.
Unknown:But this is the first sort of acquisition Nike has made Is this a sign of the times that Nike is
Unknown:making acquisitions in this space? I think yeah, I mean, it's it's it's very interesting. And you
Unknown:know, who would have thought that when when sort of Metaverse kind of started becoming a big
Unknown:buzzword that one of the kind of most forward leaning companies in this space of the non
Unknown:endemics, I would say, has really been Nike. And they were pretty early with the roadblocks. Nike
Unknown:landed now they're really taking a big step with this, this artifact acquisition. And it's
Unknown:impressive the pace at which they've moved for such a large company to be innovative, and be
Unknown:entering the space. And I do feel a bit vindicated. I think we talked about this actually,
Unknown:on the last on the last podcast how, you know, I think I had made a comment, how what they were
Unknown:doing with Nike land was very interesting, but I would get more excited when they started kind of
Unknown:positioning it as Hey, rather than have it be a virtual space where we do brand advertisements and
Unknown:try to sell physical shoes in the in the IRL world. Have it be Hey, we're just trying to sell
Unknown:you digital shoes. I kind of thought that was where this was headed eventually. I didn't think
Unknown:that it would be six days, kind of after I said that. So I guess kudos to me for calling out here.
Unknown:Some of your prognostications skills are rubbing off on me, potentially. But yeah, I mean, I think
Unknown:this is a really interesting acquisition, for sure.
Unknown:Let me let me just I want to bring up sort of two things that were in this article that I want to
Unknown:push a little bit. So first of all, it says that the company claimed in February, they did a
Unknown:collaboration with teenage artists. Ferocious, not ferocious. Ferocious, to sell real sneakers paired
Unknown:with virtual ones. And they managed to sell supposedly 600 pairs slash NF T's in just six
Unknown:minutes, netting over 3.1 million, which is, you know, nothing to nothing to scoff at. Right.
Unknown:That's a substantial amount of revenue in six minutes of time. What's interesting, though, is
Unknown:that in this article, they mentioned that I'll read you precisely what they say. He says it's not
Unknown:clear if any of these digital items are worth as much
Unknown:Now, looking on open sea and nifty gateway, I see a number of them are either listed for or have
Unknown:recently sold for less than their original prices. And so sort of interesting data point here that
Unknown:the NF T's that were sold as part of that February sort of drop,
Unknown:have not appreciated in value. Now, that's not, you know, that's obviously hasn't been the case
Unknown:with the entire market, there's plenty that have appreciated in value substantially. But I also
Unknown:find it interesting that it doesn't mention what the value of the physical sneakers have done.
Unknown:Because if you look at the physical sneaker market, right, just about anything limited edition
Unknown:has shot through the roof in terms of price over the last couple of years, right? The sneaker
Unknown:markets, maybe the only other market, other than NF Ts and crypto. But as seen, and maybe luxury
Unknown:watches that have seen such a massive, you know, appreciation in value. I guess I have a question
Unknown:here. Is this the perfect intersection of physical and digital Right? Like are sneakers, the holy
Unknown:grail for NF T's in your mind because of the hype around the physical product also? Or does that not
Unknown:matter? And is the proof that the NFT the NFT versions of the physical shoes have not
Unknown:appreciated in value? Right? It is? I don't see what I'm saying. They're the perfect, I don't
Unknown:think they're perfect. I mean, I think for me, the most interesting digital goods are ones that have
Unknown:use like in games, like I'm not sure cosmetics, you know, cosmetics clearly have value in games
Unknown:that's been proven time and time out with with cosmetic economies and games. However, I think,
Unknown:you know, digital items like swords or guns that have actual power within games and can can kind of
Unknown:help you win, I think will always be potentially more interesting and hold more value. However, I
Unknown:do think you may bring up a great point just in terms of the sneaker culture. Like I think it is
Unknown:one of the few items where you have like baseball cards, watch it, like it's one of the things that
Unknown:people actually collect, just to collect. So I think that that's why the the fact that the value
Unknown:of these initial drops have, you know, the ones that came out in February dropped off, it doesn't
Unknown:concern me that much. Because these can fluctuate in prices. And there are probably people that are
Unknown:buying these as collector items, not necessarily a speculation that kind of a speculative hype mania.
Unknown:So I do think that the fact that they're it's a it's a sneaker
Unknown:collaborate collaboration probably actually does add a little bit of value there.
Unknown:How much one sort of one final thought on this? How much do you think
Unknown:the investors in artifact play into this exit here? Right? Like, again, I'm trying to what I'm
Unknown:trying to do a separate hype, from underlying sort of interesting businesses from you know, any other
Unknown:factors that maybe we're considering, right? Because I think part of our job with this show is,
Unknown:in the time we're living in now is separating the hype from the genuinely interesting and good
Unknown:businesses and opportunities. So that people can think critically about what they're reading about
Unknown:and listening to right. Like, fundamentally, I think that's one of our jobs. And
Unknown:when you look at the list of investors in artifact, right, Andreessen is the first investor.
Unknown:Yeah. And recent, maybe the best venture investors on the planet like other than, like, you know, I
Unknown:would put Sequoia and sort of them in, in a, in a very small group at the very top. And Andreessen
Unknown:probably more active in the gaming space than just about anyone else. So far from the big the big
Unknown:VCs, I, you know, not the pure, not counting the pure play,
Unknown:you know, VCs? Is it? Is this exit a function of, it's a it's an Andreessen company, and they're
Unknown:just really good at manufacturing exits, or do you think this is truly Nike?
Unknown:Internally having a very clear vision around where they want to go with the metaverse with digital
Unknown:goods within fts. And this is just part of their roadmap, and we're probably going to see two or
Unknown:three sort of big plays from Nike going forward. Yes, this is sort of an interesting kind of bigger
Unknown:question about about venture capital. I mean, did Are you are you asking did Andreessen pick a good
Unknown:company that did well, and then had an exit because entries, it's good to pick companies or
Unknown:get Andreessen, like hype up and trick Nike into buying this company that they invest in? I think I
Unknown:didn't use that former, you know, rather than the latter, but that's, that's, I guess, a venture. A
Unknown:bigger broader question. I'm venture capital.
Unknown:No, but my
Unknown:meaning is Andreessen the signal that led to this, like, it's an Andreessen company, so, you know,
Unknown:it's got to be good, or something. Yeah. I think that's always the case. There's some validation
Unknown:and they have a network and network of, you know, strategics and bankers that they work, so it is
Unknown:very if you're an Andreessen backed company,
Unknown:You're going to get certain opportunities that maybe a smaller company or someone with smaller,
Unknown:less known backers are afforded the opportunity to to be involved with. What What I'm interested to
Unknown:see, I didn't really see where, you know talked about they're developing virtual shoes, but didn't
Unknown:talk about what platforms it was developing for. Is it just Roblox? Is it any game? Because it gets
Unknown:back to what we talked about last episode with interoperability? And it's not clear to me yet
Unknown:exactly. Where you can wear these shoes. You know, it's not as though is it only a Nike land on
Unknown:Roblox is it? Hey, at some point, they want to be able to put shoes in any video game, anything
Unknown:developed on unity, like, I'd like to understand a little bit more about the strategy of where you
Unknown:can actually buy and wear the shoes. Well, that that brings up a whole other interesting sort of
Unknown:conversation, because from my understanding, and from what I read,
Unknown:you can't actually wear these digital shoes anywhere yet, right? They are supposedly
Unknown:developing for these platforms. But today, all you can do is sort of have it in your wallet.
Unknown:Right? It goes directly in your meta masks wallet or whatever.
Unknown:What that tells me and also the fact that the company was founded in 2020 is, you know, this is
Unknown:a really fast acquisition, right from startup to acquisition, in essentially a year
Unknown:is incredibly quick. And then the products not fully fleshed out, which, again, I come back to
Unknown:sort of, does Nike. Is Nike strategy really fully fleshed out here? Or is this like, Oh, my God, we
Unknown:need to make a play. Everyone's doing stuff here. Right? Let's let's make a big splash. Let's
Unknown:they're doing shoes. It makes sense for us, even though, you know, although, again, they had 3
Unknown:million in revenue from that one drop. So, you know, the company's new, but I guess the third
Unknown:option, the third potential option is that it's a little bit of an aqua hire. I don't think he's
Unknown:feeling panicked. If anything, Nike has been very early to this. So I don't think this is a scenario
Unknown:where we're sitting two years now. And everyone has a metaphor strategy. And everyone's on third
Unknown:base, and you know, someone like pick a different company, and McDonald's, for example, just comes
Unknown:out. It's like, Oh, my God, we need to, like we're three years behind. We need a metaphor strategies,
Unknown:like go by whoever will take our money. That's not this because Nike is we just talked about at the
Unknown:very beginning. I mean, they are incredibly early to this. So it's possible given how early stage
Unknown:this is. This could be an aqua hire, could be Hey, we like this team. We want to bring them in and
Unknown:kind of help they can help shape our Metaverse strategy. So if I had to guess, you know, it is
Unknown:probably a bit of that. Jeff, can we contrast this with sort of the second story here, but I really
Unknown:want to lump it in sort of with the first story and and that is Nikes major competitor, right. So
Unknown:we've got Adidas here with a with a story of their own with a play of their own and the headline here
Unknown:was adidas Originals launches NF T's and buys a plot in the sandbox metaverse. The article goes on
Unknown:to say that adidas Originals will launch their first NF T's as they dive into web three in the
Unknown:metaverse.
Unknown:That's going to be a commercial part of the metaverse. They're going to market their digital
Unknown:and physical products. And they're going to be inspired by this collection is going to be
Unknown:inspired by and presented in partnership with NFT leaders, such as board a yacht club G money, and
Unknown:the team behind the punks comic. All the NF T's are on sale. As of today, actually, the day we're
Unknown:recording the 15th. And buyers will receive exclusive access to adidas Originals experiences
Unknown:and products. So I see a distinct difference here in approach and strategy. Right? Adidas
Unknown:not acquiring a company, right? Launching a collection with an existing platform with sandbox.
Unknown:And also partnering with other sort of creators and artists. And if the creators and artists in
Unknown:the space, right so very much it seems a more community and sort of I'll call it a less
Unknown:aggressive approach and that they're, you know, working with the existing players. They're Nike
Unknown:seems to have a clear vision in terms of like, we want to buy and do something. I don't know if you
Unknown:see it that way. Or if you don't see a difference between the two approaches here. And which one do
Unknown:you think is the right one, I guess? Yeah, no, I think you you summed up the differences decently
Unknown:well. It feels like Nike has sort of taken the first they're a little maybe a base or two
Unknown:ahead of Adidas. I'm not sure I necessarily understand the why by the sandbox land. Like I you
Unknown:know, I
Unknown:Still and again maybe it's
Unknown:you know my naivete towards sandbox and kind of I just feels to me like there's a little bit of if
Unknown:you build it they will come strategy and sandbox where I if I'm, if I'm a brand right now I'm going
Unknown:to the platform, Roblox where I know there's 50 million users daily active users rather than going
Unknown:to sandbox which, you know, I am not sure if we have an up to date daily active user account, but
Unknown:I'm sure it's, you know, a fraction of what of what robots is. So I'm not sure the concept of why
Unknown:go pay to buy this land, which we know actually isn't really that cheap. Clearly, for someone like
Unknown:Adidas, it's, it's it's kind of pennies on the dollar, but it's in the millions of dollars, like
Unknown:why go buy land there, when you could kind of do what Nike did, and create something in robots
Unknown:where I think there's just more people in the environment. So to me, I take Nike strategy also,
Unknown:you know, I like the idea of selling the actual virtual goods, you can you can, you could wear in
Unknown:different games, eventually. I'm not sure what the deal is, it seemed more like they're, they're
Unknown:selling NF T's like digital art versus, you know, actual things you can play in video games. This
Unknown:brings up an interesting business model question I've got for you, Jeff, which is,
Unknown:do you how critical Do you think it is? So we talked about Nike, we talked about Adidas, how
Unknown:critical in your mind, is it to pair a physical good with the digital good? Like, is this? Is this
Unknown:something that do you see this as sort of a short term trend that eventually goes away? When people
Unknown:recognize the value the pure value of the digital goods and you don't need? Like? Is the physical
Unknown:good a crutch? Or is it brilliant sort of marketing? Is it like, how do you see the
Unknown:connection between those two things? And do you feel it's necessary for success? It's definitely
Unknown:an early stage thing. I think you'll hate my answer a little bit, because it sort of depends on
Unknown:where we are in sort of the entrance into the metaverse, right? If you take the the sort of
Unknown:where we're all headed is we're going to spend most of our time in some sort of digital
Unknown:Metaverse, and our digital avatar will become kind of that representation of ourselves will become as
Unknown:important, if not more important than our physical in real life representation of ourselves, you'll
Unknown:start to see less and less of the physical being tied to the digital because the digital will be
Unknown:all that sort of matters or be more important. However, right now, I think we are a long way from
Unknown:that. So I do think you know, with a lot of this, there is some element with with any sort of luxury
Unknown:goods and I will say NF T's they function right now kind of as luxury goods, a lot of people are
Unknown:buying these things. So they can make it their Twitter profile, or they can tell people about it
Unknown:or be part of a club. So there is a lot of this conspicuous consumption when you're dealing with
Unknown:these things. So I think tying a physical good to it saying like, hey, look, you have those cool
Unknown:shoes, like, oh, wow, you bought that NFT. And like, you're one of those people that bought that.
Unknown:It's a conversation starter. You know, like I bet Jimmy, you know, our mutual friend and colleague,
Unknown:Jimmy from the live stream on in the podcast. He's the kind of guy that I could see buying, you know,
Unknown:something like that and wearing those shoes. I don't know if you, you agree on that, or my whole
Unknown:point. But yeah,
Unknown:yeah, I, you know, a big part of me, wants to believe that it's, it's sort of a transitory kind
Unknown:of crutch, right like that. There's some concern that people won't. And I don't mean, like a lot of
Unknown:the people listening to this and watching this, all understand the value the future importance of
Unknown:NF Ts and crypto and blockchain and all these technologies and how, you know, I think everyone,
Unknown:for the most part, who listens to this has really bought into a certain vision of the future. But
Unknown:for the mass for the, for the masses, right for the mainstream, who are still somewhat skeptical,
Unknown:who maybe don't understand the value of, of, you know, ones and zeros of a totally virtual product.
Unknown:Like it's most definitely an in an interesting crutch slash marketing tool, right? To say, look,
Unknown:you're gonna buy the NFT, but you're gonna get a physical pair of shoes. So the $1,000 or $2,000
Unknown:that you paid. There's not so bad, right? Like you could in your mind as someone who's maybe not knee
Unknown:deep in the space justify it. And so I do see it as kind of clever marketing. But I think for the,
Unknown:for the metaverse to truly be as transformational and revolutionary is I think you believe it will
Unknown:be an I believe it will be
Unknown:the physical, we can't be tethered to the physical in any way. Right? Like, we can't have the
Unknown:physical be part of that equation. You can't have the trappings of the physical world for the
Unknown:metaverse I think to be truly successful long term. We have to be able to digitize everything.
Unknown:Everything we do everything we wear everything we like the all the
Unknown:facets of humanity needs to be able to be virtualized, I think for this to work, and so
Unknown:that's fair, but you need to people need to adopt that. So if this is a way that gets people to
Unknown:start adopting that, I think, you know, we're so early in the game that it's, it is a good way to
Unknown:onboard people into this world of understanding these things.
Unknown:Um, oh, yeah. It's just does it teach the right thing? Right, does it? Is it the right message,
Unknown:which is like, it's, it shouldn't feel like just an add on. Right? It shouldn't feel like a bonus.
Unknown:Like the like the toy in the Happy Meal, right? Like, people need to believe this is the Happy
Unknown:Meal, not the toy in the Happy Meal.
Unknown:And so, you know, part of me loves it. Because I'm a I'm also a fan of, you know, we're the records
Unknown:is always better than the happy meal. So your analogy was a good one, but just backwards.
Unknown:Everyone bought the happy meal for the toy, not a toy.
Unknown:But let me just sort of it's a good sort of segue to this other article, also was sandbox article,
Unknown:where I'll just bring it up here, the co founder of the sandbox, Sebastian Borg, it Borg it
Unknown:basically threatened. He says big tech threatens open blockchain based metaverse. He says the
Unknown:decentralized Metaverse is his biggest consideration, and must be defended against big
Unknown:tech. The blockchain based video game platform is gaining widespread attention for its NFT virtual
Unknown:land sales, with some plots going for millions of dollars. So
Unknown:you know, in this, obviously, they name the meta, which is Facebook. Now they name Tencent, they
Unknown:NetEase right. Some of these very big tech companies that are building their own sort of
Unknown:Metaverse plays. I find it somewhat ironic that the sandbox, which is its own closed ecosystem,
Unknown:for the most part
Unknown:is sort of, you know,
Unknown:crying about about big tech.
Unknown:Is very Tim Sweeney. Right? Like cry Oh, no, these people are bad come to my version, which is like,
Unknown:pretty similar, but not owned by me, not them, so it's better.
Unknown:But
Unknown:the reason why I Liked this article is he's right, right? He's absolutely correct. The problem is,
Unknown:none of these players not meta not NetEase, not Tencent, not sandbox, not decentraland. Not like
Unknown:no one can make that argument with any legitimacy for the reason you just described. Right. Like,
Unknown:so. So who becomes?
Unknown:And there's an interesting philosophical business question here. Right? The internet had Defense
Unknown:Department beginnings, right. And being government word, were not necessarily driven by profit. And
Unknown:that sort of helped the adoption of certain standards.
Unknown:Why is there a regulatory body in your mind that solves this problem? Do you think the big tech
Unknown:firms get together and solve it? Jeff, do you think you get guys? Sebastian here? I'm not sure
Unknown:the big tech firms getting together and solving it would would satisfy what he's saying. I do think
Unknown:at the core of this is his I think his premise is is a bit flawed. Like if you just pull up the
Unknown:headline, you know, he is the argument that he makes is almost impossible to dispute. The
Unknown:question that I guess I have for you is, does the eventual Metaverse as you envision it, or kind of
Unknown:the if we go call it nirvana? Metaverse, whatever the perfect Metaverse is, does it have to be open
Unknown:blockchain based like, it feels like there's a lot of people who are trying to push blockchain into
Unknown:the metaverse when to me it's like, they don't have to necessarily be related at all. You know,
Unknown:it's kind of the same thing where like, people would talk about cloud gaming, and always talk
Unknown:about subscription because it's like, well, that's how Netflix did it with Cloud street with with
Unknown:streaming like, just because something like for the metaverse, we don't necessarily need
Unknown:blockchain. I understand that having ownership of items of digital goods is important but like, I
Unknown:don't necessarily think that needs to be on an open decentralized ledger. I can have ownership of
Unknown:a good if it's in a database that's owned by Facebook, like I you know.
Unknown:Yeah. for all intensive purposes, for the artist. My is my point correct or or my off base there in
Unknown:your mind. I was with you right till the very end. So I think for the ownership of assets. Blockchain
Unknown:makes total sense, right? Because it's
Unknown:Like, if you buy a piece of land in Florida, right? That land sale gets recorded in a public
Unknown:ledger. That's, you know, the government here doesn't have to be on the blockchain. No, but
Unknown:meaning it's accessible by anyone, you know, the government's not gonna go out of business.
Unknown:You know, they're not going to disappear tomorrow. So there's certain safety and comfort that comes
Unknown:with a record being stored into decentralized way. If you're talking about the ownership of an asset.
Unknown:I think for the metaverse, capital M to happen in the way Sebastian, from the Sandbox is describing
Unknown:here, you really only need like open technology standards, right, agreed upon protocols and
Unknown:standards so that one can communicate with the other. And I don't think that necessarily at all
Unknown:has to be blockchain based at all right? Like that, to me is, if anything, I don't think
Unknown:eventually will be blockchain based. I think the the solutions there will just be agreed, agreed
Unknown:upon protocols, API Standards, whatever, right so that all of these meta different platforms can
Unknown:talk to each other and interact with each other. The bigger question I have from this article for
Unknown:you is, and I think no one's talking about it for whatever reason is, what is the business model
Unknown:that wins in Sebastian's vision of the metaverse here, right? So in this perfectly open,
Unknown:sort of standard, standardized Metaverse, right where big tech is not dominant. How does anyone
Unknown:make money other than through
Unknown:NFT? purchases? Right, like other than sale of cosmetics? Do we see new business models? Is it
Unknown:subscriptions is it I don't cosmetics? I mean, it could be it could be a you're the company and
Unknown:there's there's a whole rabbit hole we can go down with like Dows, and kind of how the lot of these
Unknown:Metaverse kind of blockchain plays are creating decentralized autonomous organizations and sort of
Unknown:giving power back to the people and like, maybe that is where all this heads to me that
Unknown:I'm not sure that that that we get that far. But but that is a rabbit hole, we can go down now or a
Unknown:different time. But potentially the way the way these companies make money is that just because
Unknown:they're here so early, they own so much the land they own so much of the stuff they own so much,
Unknown:they literally made the money that it's like, they just basically
Unknown:either rent the land to people, sell them more stuff, sell them things. So it's just like
Unknown:creating things within that. Because they were there early, they have all the stuff to begin
Unknown:with. And then you start parceling it out and you, you know, effectively get Fiat for giving them
Unknown:goods. But I'm not sure that it has to be a completely different business. Like I don't think
Unknown:it's a subscription model or anything like that.
Unknown:So you think business models just sort of translate over? You don't think we've seen
Unknown:completely new ways of thinking about how these how completely open meta versus make money?
Unknown:Why does that? Why would it be? I guess different because it's completely open. Like someone still
Unknown:has to, I guess the openness doesn't necessarily to me mean anything besides Hey, everyone like
Unknown:that ownership rather than being in a database owned by a company. It's in a database, or a
Unknown:blockchain not owned by anyone.
Unknown:But I think like the the sort of basic economic tenets of like, buying and selling goods would
Unknown:still apply. I yeah, I mean, I've heard theory, I've heard a lot of people believe that it's still
Unknown:going to be like ad driven like most of the internet, right? But fundamentally,
Unknown:all the talk about NF T's and everything else is going to be dwarfed by the amount of advertising
Unknown:dollars, you know, that are going to be, you know, pumped into these new these new worlds. And I, you
Unknown:know, I could, I could make all of those arguments. I'm just curious. Everything, if we get
Unknown:to a world where everything digital, it's almost like, Who are you selling the at? You're selling
Unknown:ads to buy digital goods? Right? Yeah. Are you selling the ads to the owner of the platform,
Unknown:they're still someone's gonna buy the digital goods. So you have digital, you'll effectively
Unknown:have companies selling digital goods that I guess are advertising to, you know, whoever owns the
Unknown:platform. But in order for that, in order for it to be worth it for them to buy the digital ad,
Unknown:that would also have to be a digital economy based on buying and selling digital goods. You know?
Unknown:Yeah, no question. Right. But but the I also believe in this, we just talked about it, right.
Unknown:There's this sort of in between period, where no one's plugging in yet and spending seven days a
Unknown:week in a virtual world and living and working and operating in there, right. There's no reason why.
Unknown:If we believe a lot of attention is moving there that you can't your advertisers won't want to hear
Unknown:you're saying I 100% agree in the early days, you're right average
Unknown:will probably be a bigger driver. But if we get to this capital and Metaverse by definition,
Unknown:advertising couldn't be bigger than the, you know, the GDP of goods being sold like it just fair.
Unknown:Fair to make sense.
Unknown:Let's talk about one last story. One sort of another big story this week. And I feel like this
Unknown:is going to become a recurring theme. And I look, I think it's our duty to cover it also. And, and
Unknown:this is from VentureBeat and the headline here gala games and see two ventures c squared ventures
Unknown:launch $100 million fund for blockchain games. They've launched this 100 million dollar fund
Unknown:according failure called to accelerate the development of blockchain gaming. It's an alliance
Unknown:between gala games, the blockchain game company headed by Zynga co founder, Eric share Meyer, and
Unknown:a new crypto investment led by Charice sun, former head of blockchain investments for huobi.
Unknown:This is it says the fun comes after a whirlwind gala vers event over the weekend in Las Vegas,
Unknown:where gala Games announced game deals with will right, Peter Mullenix, Ember games, AMC and
Unknown:certain affinity.
Unknown:And so a lot of big names in here. I mean, Jeff, is this more of the same? Do you see anything
Unknown:unique here?
Unknown:I think you hit it with sort of the last sentence you threw in there in terms of a lot of big names.
Unknown:And that's that's kind of why I picked pick this story for us to talk about. Because frankly, like
Unknown:you said, there are, as we had predicted there, every week, there's three or four of these, hey,
Unknown:XYZ raises 100 million $200 million fund to invest in blockchain games, which great, that's awesome
Unknown:for the ecosystem. The interesting thing here was was the names of the people that are getting
Unknown:invested. I think we've talked a lot about this. It's been a recurring theme, how, you know, for
Unknown:blockchain gaming ecosystem to really grow and take off, you need more people who have experience
Unknown:building great games to actually come build great games that use blockchain as a mechanic, rather
Unknown:than as a crutch and kind of the whole point of the game. So the fact you see well, right, who,
Unknown:you know, correct me if I'm wrong, was created as a Sims very famous game designer. And the other
Unknown:guy forgot his name, but I think he was the watermelon guy behind fable.
Unknown:So, you know, these are kind of royalty items, you know, folks in the industry, I think that is a
Unknown:great sign.
Unknown:You know,
Unknown:it's this, this was an interesting story for me, and I didn't expect to see, I think we said on the
Unknown:last podcast, and everyone should go listen to previous episodes if you haven't caught up yet.
Unknown:But I think I mentioned on a previous episode, that we were gonna see at least three or four of
Unknown:these in the next few months, right like the the it was inevitable that I think we agreed that more
Unknown:and more of these were going to pop up what I find, and this is sort of my take on these
Unknown:blockchain based gaming Metaverse slash Metaverse fund slash slash Metaverse slash web three funds
Unknown:venture funds, is you end up with what happened to venture capital in Canada in like the mid 2000s.
Unknown:And let me explain what happened in Canada in the mid 2000s. With venture was you had the government
Unknown:that essentially seeded a half dozen private venture capital funds, right. And that went and
Unknown:raised money. So you had you ended up having six funds in in a certain area and a certain geography
Unknown:in Canada, that we're all doing tech, and that we're all managing 50 to $150 million, right. And
Unknown:the result of that was for the next 10 years, or the next five years, every single half decent tech
Unknown:company that came out of Canada would raise a round, and have every single one of these funds
Unknown:invested in their round, right? Like, because to put together you know, 5 million or $6 million
Unknown:round, you would need a million from this guy and a million from that guy. And, you know, always
Unknown:three to four out of the six funds would be in every single deal. decent deal, right? And I feel
Unknown:like the gaming funds went down that path. Now the blockchain based gaming and Metaverse funds are
Unknown:going down this path where they're still as for all the excitement and hype and my conviction that
Unknown:this is the future, there's still a limited number of good deals. And every single one of these
Unknown:funds, they're all going to be in the exact same deals, right? And so if you're an LP, and you're
Unknown:looking at the space like
Unknown:that none of them start to feel or look any different is my concern, right? Like, but if the
Unknown:question I have, I guess, Paul, then if you're an LP, if it's it sounds like then the answer is you
Unknown:can go to any of them or none of them. But like wouldn't it still be better if you want exposure
Unknown:to go to any of them? So I guess I don't understand from an LPS perspective, why is that
Unknown:bad? But how do you make
Unknown:How do you make that decision? Right? When they all look the same feel the same for the most part,
Unknown:are invested in the same deals, or just betting on the space right?
Unknown:In or not. I mean, I get your I see your point that you'd like someone to be differentiated and
Unknown:better. But I guess if it's such a niche where it's like they're all the same, then the answer is
Unknown:zero or one question like, then you can make a choice if you want in or out. But your overarching
Unknown:point is you'd rather like bigger funds come in and kind of have, you know, just more players like
Unknown:is that is that kind of what you're doing? More players, players of varying size, right? Not just
Unknown:all 100 million dollar funds, but some 50 and some 500, right, so that you can see companies through
Unknown:their lifecycle, but also just like innovation, because I think with Metaverse, web three, all the
Unknown:themes we discuss, there's a lot of opportunity, I think, to think different about how venture is
Unknown:done, whether it's more of a venture studio model, whether it's, you know, part of 10% of your fund
Unknown:is direct investments in, you know, crypto assets themselves or something, you know, something
Unknown:that's anything that's different or innovative, I would love to be able to, to I would love a story
Unknown:that comes out and talks about that, even if it's just part of the storytelling because all of them
Unknown:are starting to feel way too similar to me. And
Unknown:again, I don't know if that's just because there's so much hype that
Unknown:everyone jumps in without sort of thinking through completely the model, right? If you can go raise
Unknown:100 million and just by saying your blockchain based gaming venture fund, right, like, why make
Unknown:the extra effort? Yeah.
Unknown:But I do think I do think it's something to watch like if we start seeing for more funds like this
Unknown:all exactly the same.
Unknown:I think we need to have a sort of a serious discussion as an industry to say, what does that
Unknown:mean for the companies in this space? So I was gonna say then we should start a blockchain gaming
Unknown:company.
Unknown:That's true. That is the lesson here.
Unknown:Man that went fast that flew by Jeff we. That's that's all we have for this week. Guys. Just two
Unknown:reminders. These episodes come out every single week they drop every Monday or Tuesday. Right now
Unknown:is the schedule we're going with. Also, if you love like Metaverse themed content, make sure to
Unknown:check out our sister podcast met a woman hosted by Lindsey poss who
Unknown:is a co host on the business of esports which is maybe how you found this podcast. If you didn't
Unknown:find this podcast or business of esports definitely go check out business of esports Jeff
Unknown:and I make some great content there especially the Wednesday night 8:30pm live stream 8:30pm Eastern
Unknown:Time Live Stream, but we're gonna continue to put out meta business podcasts every single week,
Unknown:Jeff, thank you as always, everyone loves the juice. Everyone. Thanks everyone here in the juice
Unknown:every single week. And feedback. Yeah, love. We'd love feedback on how you guys are liking the show.
Unknown:And we will see you next week.
Unknown:Thanks for watching this episode of meta business. Make sure to subscribe to the podcast on Apple
Unknown:podcast, Spotify, Google Play YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Also make sure to leave a
Unknown:review if you love the content. This is a meta TV series The world's first and only media platform
Unknown:focused on Metaverse content and themes. So make sure to follow all of the other meta TV social