Join host Erika Audrey in this fascinating episode of Clover Club, featuring special guest landscape architect and urban designer Jennie Lynn Rudder. Together, they explore the unique world of cemeteries, civil engagement, spine-tingling ghost stories, and a discussion of the Bechdel test. Tune in for an engaging conversation that uncovers the unexpected connections between these diverse topics.

Bechdel Test- https://bechdeltest.com/

Atlanta NPU- https://www.npuatlanta.org/

Krewe of Grateful Gluttons- https://www.weirdgonepro.com/atlanta-beltline-lantern-parade

Archive Atlanta- https://www.archiveatlantapodcast.com/

Article about Atlanta's hidden creeks- https://www.atlantamagazine.com/great-reads/the-scent-of-water-searching-for-hidden-springs-in-downtown-atlanta/

American Society of Landscape Architects Climate Action Plan - https://www.asla.org/climateactionplan.aspx

Cemetery Nerd- https://www.instagram.com/cemetery_nerd/

Welcome to Clover club.

2

Everyone.

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I'm so excited today because.

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Guess who's

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Kelly: back.

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It's me.

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Good.

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Pause it or something.

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I'm sure.

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It's me.

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It's Kelly.

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Hi,

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Erika: everyone.

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Kelly is back.

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She has been married for

a month, but don't worry.

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She's still posting

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Kelly: about it.

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Okay.

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I got my wedding photos in yesterday.

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Thank you very much.

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Erika: I will tell you.

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As annoying as it.

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Your pictures

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Kelly: are so good.

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Uh, I know, right.

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Erika: Legit.

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It looks like they came

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Kelly: out of a magazine.

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So we hired this woman

who only shoots film.

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I love.

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But it's also like a really risky

thing to do for your wedding.

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Like that is like a really, oh,

she was your only photography.

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It was one camera.

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The whole time with film that like, could

easily be flashed or damaged or like

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any of those are like the processing.

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Yeah.

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So many things could've gone wrong with

it, but it ended up being so perfect.

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Erika: I love that.

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What's up with you,

anything as cool as that.

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I don't know how to compete with that.

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I'm just like drowning in

enthusiasm for our guest today.

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Yeah.

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So I would love to introduce Jenny

Lynn redder, my favorite landscape

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architect and urban designer.

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And if that sounds familiar it's

because I referenced in episode one

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that I know a landscape architect.

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Who illuminated me to this

world of non boring things.

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And so we've brought her

here today to get spooky.

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And intrigued.

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And informed about all things,

landscape architecture and urban design.

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So Jenny Lynn, hi, and

welcome to clever cloud.

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Hi, welcome.

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Hi, thank you.

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Thank you.

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, so, okay.

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Jenny Lynn.

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A lot of people hear landscape

architecture and they think land escaping.

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So I want to immediately debunk

or untangle those two professions.

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The people know what you actually do.

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I kind of don't know what you do at all.

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It's not landscaping.

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I can tell you that I'm interested.

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. So.

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Landscaping, unfortunately,

not a thing that I'm great at.

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But landscape architecture.

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And modestly.

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Is.

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Sure land scape, uh, break it

into two words, like land and

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scape, the shaping of the land.

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And that's what landscape architects do.

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We are.

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Licensed nationally.

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There's a very specific professional.

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Designation there's

liability associated with it.

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, so there's like a little definition

of landscape architecture, and

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then there's how I experienced it.

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So.

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I've see it as pretty much anything

between buildings, even sighting

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buildings is something that we would have.

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Sway over.

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So if you look outside, you see

a lot of plants, but you also see

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like rolling Hills and streets and.

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Sidewalks and, you know, water

running off the edge of the streets,

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which we'll talk a lot about.

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Cause I love storm water.

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Like a lot.

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Let's give architects are not

necessarily the only people who

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touch this things, but that's a,

that's a thing that we can design.

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Okay.

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So it's kind of like an all

encompassing broad stroke of what.

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The landscape is so even roads.

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With caveats, there are

transportation engineers who do this.

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Pacific's of the road design.

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, but often we're called on to.

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Either lay out the sort of

overall field of roads or look

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at ways to make them work better.

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And then one big thing that landscape

architects do is we work really

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closely with other professions.

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I see.

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And because we're.

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I would say really well-informed about all

these different, professional subsets.

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We are really good at, , getting

people to talk to one another.

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And so instead of having like an

engineered road that looks like.

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Kelly.

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Let's get for architects, a podcast.

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. So is there an example of this?

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I would think is, , recently there

was a sink hole in our neck of

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the woods and they had just , I

built a road over a Creek, I

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think is the reason that happened.

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And so it sounds like that would be an

opportunity for the road people and the

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you people to have had a conversation

that maybe didn't happen is that it was

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a pretty old road at a pretty old Creek.

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So not, not shocked, but yes, , And

Atlanta, there are all of these creeks

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that Atlanta's on a relative high point.

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Yeah.

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And we're also on the

subcontinental divide.

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So actually we're physically

recording this place very near

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the subcontinental divide, which.

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Like rainfall's over there.

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It goes to the Gulf and if it falls over

there, it goes to the Atlanta, Goshen.

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Oh, wow.

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So Atlanta's built over a bunch

of creeks that used to drain the

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city, , before it was a city.

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And what was it before?

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It was the city.

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It was woods.

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It was forest.

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It was, , native lands.

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Yeah.

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. Uh, and I'm not going to go too deep

into the history of Atlanta, but

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suffice to say it doesn't have Atlanta.

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Yes.

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And, , at one point the things that

were creeks and streams were used

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to drain waste away from the city.

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And so historically the higher

points of the city or more desirable.

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Because there were sort of above

that drainage pattern and they

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didn't flood so much with combined.

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Sewage.

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Okay.

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, and one of those creeks

runs under Ponce de Leon.

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We're talking about where

there was a sink hole.

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And so.

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Like the 1920s, Atlanta

built their sewer system.

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Okay.

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And they built over this Creek.

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And.

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There are a bunch of places where we've

built over creeks and that's one of them.

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So it flows through our combined sewer.

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And when it rains, sometimes I

don't actually know about that one

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specifically, but sometimes you get

backups that are not just rainwater.

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well, which is pretty gross.

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Yeah.

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Is that an Atlanta specific

issue or is that something

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common than lots of urban areas?

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Common in lots of urban areas.

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Okay.

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I would say newer cities

don't have so much of that.

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They've been able to build

their sanitary, sewer,

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and storm sewer separately.

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Okay.

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But older cities definitely have that.

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And Atlanta has been working, especially

since the late nineties to separate

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out our sewer systems, but it's a

lot of work and it's very expensive.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So I have a question.

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Is this more of a like government.

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Type job or is it, or is it more

private firm type things or both?

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I assume both.

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It's a really good question.

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I'm curious about the difference, , so it

is both the weird thing about landscape

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architecture, one of several weird things.

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Is that you can do it

in all different ways.

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So there are people who are landscapers,

who are landscape architects.

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I'm just not one of them.

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Got it.

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There are also landscape architects.

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You primarily practice in the public

realm, things like parks and open spaces.

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There are people who primarily

practice the private realm and just

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do high-end residential help people

with their really nice houses.

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Yeah.

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Make their swimming pools.

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Spectacular.

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Um, and then there are

people who do other private.

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Landscape architecture that might be a

skyscraper with a pool on the roof or.

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You know, whatever it could be, that

they're all different client types.

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So in my current role, . I'm

like 50, 50 working with public

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and institutional groups.

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And private.

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Okay.

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But it's all like large

commercial, private and no.

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Yeah, single residential.

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Okay.

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Interesting.

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So there there's just all

forms of it, realistically.

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There are, it's a weird profession.

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Yeah.

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I mean, it sounds cool though.

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It's so cool.

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Yeah.

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One thing that Jenny Lynn, that you

explained to me once was, , and you

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already touched on this, but the way

that that runoff goes into lower income

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areas, And I hadn't necessarily parsed

out the , Socio economic integration

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until landscape architecture.

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And I'm looking very interested in that.

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It is a really interesting topic because

so much of equity is played out in

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the land and where people live in.

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Sometimes it's where

people choose to live.

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And sometimes there's not so much of

a choice and where we choose to put

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our waste, whether it's physical.

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You know, , there are going to

be places that are, , negatively

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impacted by urban life.

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And we.

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Tend to not do a very thoughtful job.

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Uh, placing those things or

they're thoughtful in some ways,

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but maybe not fully considered.

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Yes.

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So talking about something like,

, sewage overflow, which is a fun topic.

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So I recently got

my, , received my master.

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And urban design from Georgia tech.

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Wow.

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A boss.

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Very impressive.

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Working while working.

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Wow.

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That's even more impressive.

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Yeah.

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But the reason I dropped that is

because I got the opportunity to

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study some things in more depth than

I would have maybe gotten to do.

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And just like straight professional

practice, where you have to think

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about like your billing rate and.

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Right.

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Making sure that you're profitable.

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Yes.

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, I got to study some

areas and west Atlanta.

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Where.

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Along Proctor Creek.

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, there there's just been this huge

legacy of landfills and sewage

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overflow and all kinds of things

happening because it was once outside

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of the city limits of Atlanta.

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Now it's inside the city

limits and Atlanta has.

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For decades sort of used that for.

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Disposal.

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, which is terrible and there are.

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These like really phenomenal

neighborhoods there who have been

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dealing with this for generations.

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And so looking at how.

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Policy and this like really a high-level

wonky stuff impacts people's day-to-day

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lives has been really interesting to me.

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And I don't think I would've

gotten to study that except

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for this urban design thing.

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Yeah.

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Wow.

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Very interesting.

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I heard you all call someone

out for being boring a couple of

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weeks ago, I was like, damn it.

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I'm going to be boring.

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No, he was.

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That was so.

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Brian.

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Oh, my God.

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Sometimes banks do business on the state.

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That's not the state.

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Oh, my God.

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Yeah.

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Sorry, Brian.

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You were like, Nope.

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Yeah, let's talk about

what if I'm trouble.

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And that's.

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What we do.

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Okay.

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Recently.

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Jenny Lynn informed me about some.

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Cemeteries and grave

sites and, Things in.

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Immediate vicinity that

I didn't know about.

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BU.

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I know I was going to try to do like

a witch laugh, but I cannot do that.

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Try that.

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You sound exactly like, , the

beekeeper to the west.

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So, yes.

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Cemeteries they're everywhere.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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We're very near a big one.

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From Oakland cemetery right now.

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Can we say where we are?

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Is.

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Like stocker central.

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No, no, no, we definitely can.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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It's like a wide, it's a huge cemetery.

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It really can be anywhere.

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Three block radius.

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Yeah.

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And near Oakland cemetery.

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Exactly.

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But yes.

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So cemeteries and bodies.

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Are all over the bias.

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Yeah.

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And, So, prior to Western settlement

of the us, there were native grounds

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that we like regularly desecrated.

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So that's a thing that we will

also hold in the back from.

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And since we talk about this,

but the ones that I know the most

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about are like early settlers.

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Who.

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What time period are we talking?

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When you say early settlers?

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I would say mid 18 hundreds.

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Okay.

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I'm in Atlanta.

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Okay.

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, so.

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There were, you know, homesteads,

if people who first moved to

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what they considered the woods.

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And got these giant parcels of

the land from the government

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dividing up native territories.

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And they lived on this land.

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And then if you died, you likely

were interred near where you lived.

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And over time, those old

homesteads became lake.

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Downtown Atlanta.

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And so there are people who are varied

and really prominent places downtown,

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and there's a potential grave site.

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We've located in, , Virginia Highland.

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That there's been a bunch of

conversation about recently because

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it's behind someone's private residence.

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Or may not be respecting that grave site.

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And it got us talking about

like all these different places.

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Like there are cemeteries

that, , aren't marked because.

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Prior to, oh, I don't even know

when this was, at some point it

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became common to have perpetual

maintenance agreements on cemeteries.

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So if you have.

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Are buried or interred than like

they're going to keep mowing the lawn.

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You're.

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Stone or marker is

going to be maintained.

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I've heard of that.

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Prior, there were not perpetual

maintenance agreements.

340

And so you own this tiny little piece

of property that you are varied in.

341

Yeah.

342

And then maybe your descendants

don't know about it.

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And so there.

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All these little, super

contested bits of land.

345

That may or may not be documented.

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And then there are people who are

varied in them who may or may not be.

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Known about.

348

Wow.

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That's all over the place.

350

Like this is pretty regular.

351

That.

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Like nationwide.

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Yes.

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But especially in older cities.

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Okay.

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Oh, I see.

357

Wow.

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And on the east coast, there's

a lot of, Disrespected graves.

359

One area that we were talking

about was in west Atlanta.

360

Because again, I'm sure this is

all over, but that's the area that

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I was studying in school recently.

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, there are a number of cemeteries out there

and it's because the street car, when it

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first existed in the early 19 hundreds.

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Went out to that area and people

didn't really have private cars.

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And so if you needed to move like a.

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Body.

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And maybe some mourners.

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The most efficient way to

do that was on street car.

369

They're like toward sort of the end

of the line, there are a number of

370

cemeteries and many of them didn't have

the perpetual maintenance agreements.

371

So I walked around Hollywood

cemetery, which is still intact.

372

But a lot of the areas around it,

you can see an old maps of Atlanta

373

were marked as cemetery and are now

very much not marked as cemetery.

374

And I did not find any evidence

that remains were moved.

375

So, and are these residences commercial,

what's on top of these former cemeteries.

376

There were residences.

377

Okay, so people totally

unknowing could just buy a house.

378

Wow.

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That is on top of a former graveyard.

380

Yes.

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And the, and the, um,

382

I just, wow, that's insane.

383

. . But yeah, I think a lot of times it's just

that people don't know what's on their

384

property and then sometimes there are like

unscrupulous developers or contractors.

385

, yeah.

386

It's hard to know, which is.

387

I'll take a gap.

388

Is there a way to like tell

without like digging up the.

389

Yard, like, is there a S yes.

390

Okay.

391

Cool.

392

Going to hire who can locate.

393

, human remains without digging.

394

So for example, there's this

Atlanta, site that used to be.

395

Brick works.

396

, near the confluence of the

Chattahoochee and Peachtree Creek.

397

So also west Atlanta, but not the

part I was previously talking about.

398

Okay.

399

And, There were a lot of really

terrible labor practices that happened.

400

Then this was pretty soon after

the civil war and you could be

401

forced onto like a chain gang.

402

or you can be as a prisoner

loaned out to do hard labor

403

and people would make bricks.

404

Yeah, it's terrifying.

405

Oh, my God.

406

That's like a crazy word to hear in

conjunction with like a human being.

407

Sorry, I just want to make

sure I heard that right?

408

Yep.

409

Yep.

410

You are.

411

Hearing that correct?

412

Continue.

413

So , this site, was.

414

Owned by a railroad.

415

And then they were going to sell

it to an industrial developer.

416

And city of Atlanta ultimately purchased

it, but there's this whole concern about

417

people being perhaps interred on that

site, who weren't documented because.

418

It wouldn't have

necessarily been documented.

419

And so there are groups who can go out

and help identify where people might be

420

if they are there, which I don't know

for sure that they are, but definitely

421

the stories are told that they are.

422

That's so interesting.

423

Yeah.

424

And scary.

425

, are there super natural things that

happen at these sites that also come

426

up when you're researching them?

427

Interesting question.

428

So the places where I've been, where I can

know that there are, , you know, people.

429

Interred are not the.

430

Places where I have synced ghostly things.

431

And although I do not necessarily

believe in ghosts, I wouldn't a hundred

432

percent have had like, experiences

that I don't know how else to explain.

433

Hmm.

434

. One of them was on a site visit

in Florida, like 15 years ago.

435

It was this old cattle ranch.

436

And the whole property was being

looked at for redevelopment.

437

Is this newer, but it's

a mixed use community.

438

And I was helping do the,

the land plan for that.

439

This is another thing that

landscape architects can do.

440

And we were touring the property.

441

And as we approached this one

giant ancient tree along the

442

water's edge, the sky darkened.

443

And that it started pouring down rain.

444

And I just, I mean, it's

Florida, sometimes it rains,

445

but like I had this just.

446

Horrific sickly feeling.

447

Oh, my God.

448

And then like, as , the rain cleared

up after we went away from it.

449

But like, I refuse to impact that

tree with the plan or like anything.

450

Yeah.

451

These days, the tree stays.

452

I mean, it appears that there

probably was a place of like

453

native American significance.

454

And I don't know the full history of it,

but like we're not messing with that tree.

455

Wow.

456

That's.

457

My I don't that's that's the

experience that I've had at work.

458

Wow.

459

Have you ever had a ghost experience?

460

Erika?

461

Um, uh, I don't know if I would

say a ghost experience, but I

462

would consider myself like a highly

sensitive person just to energy.

463

, and I've absolutely had very sensitive

moments, but I've never seen a ghost.

464

I don't know that I believe in

ghosts in the way that a movie would

465

portray it, but I think that energy

is neither created nor destroyed.

466

And some people are more sensitive

to picking up on it than others.

467

So.

468

So I have.

469

Do you want to hear it?

470

Obviously, it's not, I never saw her.

471

Okay.

472

But I know, but also I made it clear

that I really did not want to see her.

473

Okay.

474

, so when I first met Spencer, I moved

in with him in Atlanta, in grant park.

475

, and we lived in this very old house.

476

, it's from the 1930s, and.

477

We lived in the basement of this house

and one of the first nights I was there.

478

We were hearing footsteps go

up and down the, oh my God.

479

I'm so sorry to interrupt you.

480

I do have a ghost story, but.

481

okay.

482

I'm sorry.

483

I'm sorry.

484

We'll circle back.

485

So.

486

One of the first nights I'm staying there.

487

We hear footsteps going up and

down the stairs and I immediately

488

hear it and I'm like, uh, hello.

489

Is that like, we had roommates, but

I thought they were gone at the time.

490

Okay.

491

, and they were gone at the

time and Spencer's like,

492

yeah, that's just our ghost.

493

And I was like, huh.

494

What are you talking about?

495

Like I, yeah, and I am very, , Like

I'm also very intuitive person.

496

Like I, or what did you sensitive person?

497

I can.

498

I'm always feeling energies.

499

I know if a person is like

a bad person immediately.

500

Yeah.

501

It's like that kind of vibe for me.

502

Yeah.

503

And then as soon as he said, there

was a ghost, I immediately was

504

like, oh my God, her name's Julia.

505

And I didn't know why I said that really,

except for like, I had this like, feeling

506

that her name was Julia and it pops

into my head and it felt so right.

507

And then Julia and I low key became buds.

508

She felt very nice.

509

It did not feel.

510

Any sort of bad energy.

511

And I looked it up too, because

I didn't want to fuck with her.

512

I was like, okay, how

do I like be a friend?

513

Yeah.

514

To a ghost that lives in my

house because that is terrifying.

515

And I don't want to be scared.

516

And basically the whole thing

is like setting up boundaries.

517

And one of my boundaries

was , look, we can be pals, but I

518

literally never want to see you.

519

That would freak me

out more than anything.

520

Please don't do that.

521

So a couple months later.

522

My roommate keeps falling down the stairs.

523

And I'm like, Julia, what the fuck girl?

524

Like, what are you doing?

525

And he felt someone pushed him.

526

But yeah.

527

Turns out.

528

He's a terrible person.

529

Oh, I won't go into what he did because

it's just too much to talk about.

530

But, , we found out like six

months later, he literally got

531

like, we kicked him out of.

532

The house.

533

It was that bad of a person.

534

And I was like, holy shit, Julia, my

girl, like this whole time, I thought you

535

were really fucked up for doing that.

536

Yeah.

537

And we had ghost hunters come one time.

538

And they made us turn out all the

lights in the house they made

539

us unplug every electrical thing.

540

And then they did , their

little ghost hunt thing.

541

I put out snacks for them.

542

It was very weird.

543

, and wait for the ghosts or

the ghost hunters, hunters.

544

I didn't think Julia could eat anything.

545

But they like told us so much

about NGOs and they had this

546

little, , led light thing.

547

And basically they sat it down

on a table and didn't touch it

548

and it would blink on and off.

549

And like it could have been.

550

Absolutely bullshit.

551

And it did low key feel like that.

552

A couple of times, but if it wasn't

bullshit, then that was really cool.

553

But if it was then like, whatever, but

we would ask her questions where like

554

blink twice if, oh, blah, blah, blah.

555

And I said blink twice.

556

If I'm your favorite in the house.

557

Just like

558

With a ghost and you're

like, do you like me?

559

Yeah.

560

And then another time a friend came

over and tried to Sage her out.

561

Oh.

562

And because he was like,

he's a very spiritual guy.

563

And he was under the belief

that a ghost wants to be.

564

Yeah.

565

And so I was like, you know, if

that's what she wants, like I'm down.

566

He asked our permission,

whatever I'm like, yeah.

567

I don't want her to be

like, I care about Julia.

568

And literally this bitch, so we closed.

569

The door to our room because

I didn't want to participate.

570

So I go to my room, close the door,

Spencer and I are laying in bed while

571

they're like saging the entire house.

572

All of a sudden his computer screen.

573

Lights up and starts blinking.

574

Oh my gosh.

575

And I was like, oh my God,

she's not being saved.

576

She's in here.

577

here.

578

And so then we, then we moved and I

was really sad to say bye to Julia.

579

And I hope she's doing well.

580

I hope they treat her well at that house.

581

I think that's a really interesting.

582

Yeah.

583

, do you have a go story?

584

Genuine?

585

Can I share several, but I've also largely

had positive experiences with C yeah.

586

Ghosts.

587

Yeah, it's really cool.

588

The tree one that you said is that was

not a, that was not a positive experience.

589

Yeah, definitely going to fuck with the.

590

You know, No, I understand it.

591

I know.

592

How about you, Erica?

593

I actually do have a goose story.

594

Oh my God.

595

How I forgot this.

596

Not really.

597

Okay.

598

So the space that we're recording

in right now that is the

599

space for Hawkins and Clover.

600

Um, oh my God.

601

Is it going to be about a ghost here?

602

Yes.

603

Have I not told you this?

604

No.

605

Are they nice.

606

You'll have to see.

607

Oh my God.

608

Okay.

609

So this building used to

be, , some sort of, , industrial

610

manufacturing site that has been,

, parceled out into, workspaces.

611

And I'm in one of them.

612

And, , this was years ago.

613

, When we were just a salon, it was me.

614

And, , may vary from episode one.

615

, we would regularly.

616

Feel something.

617

It wasn't intimidating.

618

It wasn't scary.

619

But it was, there was always just

kind of this energy in this space.

620

, very frequently when we were

mixing hair color, we would have

621

our back turned towards the stairs.

622

And if you, if you haven't been in

here, the space is broken up into like,

623

there's a front area and a back area.

624

And it looks like a loft,

like very high ceilings.

625

And then we also have an upstairs

and there's this landing in the

626

stairs that kind of sits right in

between the front and the back.

627

And, , When we were mixing hair

color, it felt like somebody was

628

standing on the landing watching us.

629

And it was very matter of fact, again,

it wasn't scary, but it was very,

630

like, we turn around , So many times.

631

Mayberry and I.

632

You know, we would think that the other

of us had walked into the room and

633

turn around to say something, but then

like they're not there type of thing.

634

And so again, it was never scary.

635

It was sort of just like,

huh, that's kind of weird.

636

But again, we're right across from

a very old, very large cemetery

637

in a very historic neighborhood.

638

In Atlanta.

639

So.

640

You know, there's that.

641

So , I was doing my

first client of the day.

642

It was just me, her and my

assistant in the building.

643

And we heard a door close upstairs and.

644

I was like, Hmm.

645

I think at this time of morning,

we should be the only ones here.

646

And I said, Hey, will you run

upstairs and just check and make

647

sure , nobody has come into work yet.

648

And she's like, well,

what do I have to do it?

649

And I was like, cause I'm your boss

when I asked you to, oh my God.

650

If you asked me to do

that, I'd be like, no.

651

I'd be like sounds.

652

Literally now.

653

She was like, ah, and

so she goes upstairs.

654

And not.

655

Yes.

656

Literally never.

657

I mean, if this was like 10 in

the morning on like a Wednesday.

658

That's like pretty like nine.

659

That time of day, right?

660

So she looks around upstairs, comes back

down and she says, , I don't see anything.

661

And my client, and this is worth noting.

662

I had been doing this

clients here for years.

663

So I've known, I know this woman, I

would say pretty darn well, , I'm kind

664

of just calmly and matter of faculty,

the client was like, oh, that's, you

665

know, it isn't anything to worry about.

666

And I was like, Hmm.

667

And then my assistant was like,

why do you say it like that?

668

Are you a second or something?

669

And I looked at her and I

was like, God, calm down.

670

, but my client was like,

well, actually, yes.

671

And I was like, whoa, like, wait a minute.

672

I didn't know that about you.

673

And she was like, yeah, I don't

advertise it, but , yeah, . Since I

674

was young, I just, um, can communicate

with things and I was like, Ooh.

675

And I was like, well, okay.

676

But then we, what are you saying?

677

, are you saying what I think you're saying?

678

And she's like, Yep.

679

And I was like, there's a ghost in here.

680

And she was like, yeah.

681

And we were like, oh, oh my

God, , we've jokingly are

682

like, oh, it's just the ghost.

683

You know, kind of like what you

were saying with your story, Kelly.

684

, but I was like, wait a minute.

685

And, and so my assistant was

like, Ooh, what type of ghost?

686

She was just like, oh,

687

Um, but she was like, tell us more.

688

, and so my client closed her eyes

and she was like, let me ask.

689

And she just closed her

eyes and took a second.

690

And she said, Okay.

691

She was like, I'm feeling the energy

of a young girl and she enjoys kind

692

of the like beauty and the space and

like the creativity that happens here.

693

And she just really enjoys, just

kind of like observing everything

694

that you're creating here.

695

And I was like, oh my

God, that's fucking nuts.

696

But I still was like,

man, I'm not buying it.

697

, so I was like, I'm going to trigger.

698

And so I said, can you ask her

where she likes to hang out?

699

And she's like, yeah, let me ask.

700

So she closes her eyes again.

701

She opens her eyes back up and she says

she loves the landing of the stairs.

702

It, because she can look into the

front room and the back room and just

703

observe everything that's happening.

704

And I was like, Ooh, of all

the places for her to suggest,

705

I can't believe it was that one.

706

,

so she says that there's a lot of children who died.

707

At a young age in this neighborhood

and they kind of pop in and out

708

of these spaces through here, but

I'm getting the impression that

709

she's the one that's in your space.

710

The most.

711

And she, again, like, they just really

enjoy the fun and the energy of it.

712

, and I was like, wow, that's crazy.

713

And she said she has curly red hair.

714

And her favorite color is

green and she loves chocolate.

715

And she said, if you want to

talk to her, you can whoa.

716

And you can leave her an offering.

717

And she's like, I wouldn't

worry about anything.

718

But, you know, there are things you

can do if things get uncomfortable,

719

but just, just talk to her.

720

And I was like, okay, the day before

I had had lunch with my parents

721

at, , a restaurant that has a

giant bowl of Andy's myths by the

722

door, and I always take a handful.

723

I had a bunch of Andes mints,

which are chocolate and green.

724

And so I took one and

I set it on the stairs.

725

And I said, Hey, nice to meet ya.

726

, here you go.

727

, please keep it polite.

728

And, uh, you may stay and , sorry.

729

You're dead.

730

And, , Maybe a week or two later

I had a client come in and she

731

was like, did you get a new dog?

732

And I was like, what?

733

And she was like, well,

I walked by on Sunday.

734

We were closed on Sundays.

735

I walked by on Sunday and I saw what I

assumed was like, uh, uh, some sort of

736

doodle with curly red hair in the window.

737

And I was like,

738

That was a ghost.

739

And she's like, what?

740

Oh, my God.

741

I know this sounds crazy.

742

Chill.

743

For sure was not a doodle in here.

744

Um, and there's just the fact

that she just casually, she

745

walked by our window and just saw.

746

This curly red hair and

the window and just.

747

Oh, my God.

748

Um, so it's freaking me out.

749

With our shampoos, we

did hand massages, pre.

750

Pre COVID and one day Mayberry

had a client and she, the

751

client felt may re tap her arms.

752

And so she put out her hand

for the hand massage, but then

753

nobody grabbed it to massage.

754

And so the client had like

an eye pillow over her eyes.

755

So she lifts the corner of her eyes.

756

Now.

757

Look over now.

758

May freeze across the room.

759

Mixing the client's gloss.

760

Absolutely could not have touched her.

761

It was like what the F.

762

I can't handle that.

763

Yeah.

764

Uh, this happened in the

building we're in right now.

765

Yeah.

766

That's why it's freaking me out.

767

I know.

768

And it's getting dark and.

769

We know.

770

So I haven't told me, like, I've never.

771

Let me finish the story.

772

Why.

773

Um, So.

774

Oh, lots of little things, but then

one day Mayberry was the last one

775

here and she was in the bathroom

putting away towels or something.

776

And she heard a man's voice.

777

No deep.

778

, and kind of aggressive

and scary in her ear.

779

And she got terrified

and she was like, okay.

780

Nope.

781

, and there were other little things

like we'd feel gusts of cold air.

782

, where there's no vent and just like all of

these little things that like individually

783

you're like this isn't a big deal, but

like, it there's something happening.

784

So mayfly was like, can

I smudge this place?

785

Can I do a little expelling

ceremony and I was like, yeah, but

786

I don't want to be here for it.

787

Yeah.

788

So she did this whole little ritual thing

and we haven't had a single issue since.

789

That legit freaked me out.

790

I wasn't, I wasn't prepared

to tell that story.

791

, but this is the perfect time to do it.

792

Oh, I feel like I just went through

a haunted house or something.

793

Yeah.

794

It's the same.

795

I love them when it was like,

Erica, do you have a ghost story?

796

You're like, nah.

797

I know, are you kidding me?

798

I think I was looking at work.

799

My hands are like sweating.

800

Oh, my God.

801

I mean the one right here.

802

Yeah.

803

It sounds like it was a bad

ghost though, except that yeah.

804

Well maybe, maybe the last one, the man.

805

It's not welcome here.

806

Yeah, fuck that.

807

Yeah.

808

Fuck that.

809

I'm glad that happened to her and not me.

810

Oh my gosh.

811

She's extremely sensitive to that stuff.

812

So growing up, I wouldn't be here now.

813

She has a crazy story of like a.

814

Home.

815

She lived in, uh, when she, you

don't have to tell me I'm good.

816

I don't remember enough details

to repeat it, but like, She's very

817

sensitive to that type of stuff.

818

So like when she, her.

819

I believe her because it's just something

that she's experienced her whole life.

820

Yeah, it's so interesting.

821

So, okay.

822

You had the crazy storm and

the tree you have had, that's

823

the only, work-related kind of.

824

Situation.

825

That's the only one I can think of.

826

That was work-related.

827

Okay.

828

Is there a non-work-related

one that you'd like to share?

829

There are a bunch of network-related ones.

830

And the one that I could pick a nice one.

831

Too scared.

832

No.

833

Everyone your heart.

834

So I went to college at university

of Georgia and I lived in

835

Athens and I was in a sorority.

836

I know.

837

Wow.

838

When I tell people I was a cheerleader,

it's like, well, that does not.

839

Oh, my God.

840

I was a cheerleader.

841

Really?

842

Yeah.

843

No, it does not.

844

No, it does not track all my back.

845

It was one year.

846

So all of us are a little basic.

847

I think a little.

848

I think everyone knew that already.

849

So I lived in the sorority house for.

850

Kind of two years.

851

And kind of.

852

Two-ish I stayed at various

places and there is a ghost.

853

At the sorority house and she's

well-known her name is Suzy.

854

Um, And.

855

There's a story that there was,

uh, the house was built as a

856

wedding gift for a young couple.

857

And then track.

858

Yeah.

859

Gorgeous house to.

860

Wow.

861

Um, and like, allegedly,

like she died in the house.

862

Heartbroken.

863

Oh, I don't know.

864

Her heart was broken.

865

It was broken.

866

Okay.

867

Well you said tragedies.

868

I wasn't sure if it was like, there

were details on the tragedy or.

869

There's actually like a

Facebook post about this today,

870

so I can share that there's.

871

What are the odds?

872

I know.

873

I know top of mind.

874

Yeah.

875

So, and it's known as

the wedding cake house.

876

Cause it sort of looks like a

wedding cake, but also there's.

877

Like sad ghost backstory.

878

But the experiences that I had

with her were all positive.

879

So I don't even know if it was the

same ghost because it was not scary.

880

But there's definitely a presence there.

881

Wow.

882

And you can feel her in different rooms.

883

There's like the old part of the

house and the new part of the house.

884

And there was an attic and you

could very much feel her there.

885

So always in.

886

I heard her play the piano in time.

887

A little piano and the, but

it was, I mean like, like your

888

experiences, not a scary thing.

889

Very clearly.

890

Presence.

891

Yeah.

892

Person.

893

Yeah.

894

Wow.

895

That's so cool.

896

So never anything scary.

897

Uh, some scary.

898

Oh, my God come.

899

So I have some relatives who live

in this very old house in Atlanta.

900

It was one boy.

901

He oldest houses in Atlanta.

902

It's still, still is.

903

, And it's this beautiful house.

904

And it has seen a lot over the

years, , during the civil war,

905

it was occupied by union troops.

906

And they're like the banister up the

stairs has all of these marks where

907

they used to drop the rifle and the

banister in the morning to wake people up.

908

Oh, This house has seen things.

909

Wow.

910

I don't know how much I can

say about it, because it is

911

my relatives who lived there.

912

Whatever you feel comfortable sharing.

913

So, but there, there were likely people.

914

Who died there and there

are likely bodies there.

915

That I don't have specifics on,

but when I was in the house one

916

time, there was this one room that

like, We're looking around is.

917

Like beautifully appointed

the houses insanely amazing.

918

. And.

919

This one room just felt like terrible.

920

It's terrible to me.

921

Very pretty room.

922

Strong, no on that room for me.

923

And so I like got out as fast as I could.

924

And my brother who is also kind

of sensitive to this stuff was

925

also like touring the house.

926

With me.

927

And he, I saw him also

like bolt out of the room.

928

And I was like ghost.

929

He was like ghost.

930

I was like, Ooh.

931

Civil war goes.

932

He was like, I don't know.

933

It's bad.

934

I was like, I know.

935

Wow.

936

So you just felt an overwhelming,

like there was not a good ghost.

937

Yeah.

938

I don't know if that's a usual ghost

there, but that was not a good I

939

was going to say to your relatives,

, have they ever been like, yeah,

940

we just don't go in that room or.

941

I don't know if I should ask.

942

Yeah, I was, I'm curious about that.

943

Yeah.

944

Cause they gotta know, they gotta be

like, like, is it just in that one room?

945

Hopefully, oh, that's just Martha.

946

No, this was a very male energy.

947

Oh, okay.

948

Damn, ah, Was not good.

949

Oh, that's so interesting.

950

Anyway, I really love spring time.

951

I love flowers.

952

I allow farmers I'm happy and content.

953

Boring.

954

And I had a friend who lived in a house.

955

You had a similar situation to

yours, where she was living in

956

the basement of an older house.

957

And it was, uh, turned out there

was like a speakeasy there.

958

Cool.

959

Found out because at night you could hear

a party going on through the basement

960

wall, but there was nothing on the

other side of the unfinished basement.

961

Wow.

962

But it was like very , you know, holding

her into the next room at a party

963

and it feels kind of like goodbye.

964

Yeah.

965

Oh, wow.

966

They're just like endlessly partying.

967

That's actually so crazy.

968

I think that it's, you know, I'm not a.

969

Physicist, but.

970

This Justin, , There's like this

energy imprint that just sometimes.

971

Doesn't go away.

972

When the physical matter

that created that energy.

973

Leaves.

974

And I think that's like

what these experiences are.

975

That's how I interpret it.

976

Yeah, I mean, energy cannot

be created or destroyed.

977

And I do think that's.

978

Uh, reason for something, any

sort of spiritual, anything

979

at li like it might exist.

980

Because of that.

981

Only because of that.

982

That's like a crazy truth.

983

Yeah.

984

That one freaks me out too.

985

Oh, my God.

986

I feel like I just like

went through something.

987

I love, I didn't know.

988

You were such a puss.

989

I.

990

, you know, there's a ghost

at the Plaza theater.

991

Is there.

992

Oh, I have a lot, since that I

have a friend who works there.

993

Um, and.

994

Most of the time, it's like a good ghost.

995

But there is one scary story.

996

, and it's not.

997

I feel comfortable talking

about it because it's like,

998

it's not that scary of a ghost.

999

, it's a ghost that basically just

doesn't want to be fucked with.

00:38:29,871 --> 00:38:31,581

Okay, because the Plaza theater.

00:38:31,881 --> 00:38:33,441

Around fair.

00:38:33,861 --> 00:38:35,751

The Plaza theater has been

around for like, so, so, so,

00:38:35,751 --> 00:38:38,051

so, so, so long and, basically.

00:38:38,531 --> 00:38:39,401

There was this one.

00:38:39,851 --> 00:38:42,131

Guy who works there, who

stayed there overnight.

00:38:42,531 --> 00:38:44,601

, one time and he tried

to stay there overnight.

00:38:45,231 --> 00:38:48,801

Yeah, this is like, Um, like

last year, maybe, probably, or.

00:38:49,461 --> 00:38:50,331

Or like six months ago?

00:38:50,361 --> 00:38:50,601

I don't know.

00:38:50,601 --> 00:38:50,931

I don't know.

00:38:51,111 --> 00:38:52,671

Okay, but he still works there now.

00:38:53,121 --> 00:38:53,331

Okay.

00:38:53,841 --> 00:38:54,501

But.

00:38:54,501 --> 00:38:58,071

He was staying there overnight

and he slept in the office and he

00:38:58,071 --> 00:39:01,431

woke up to someone banging on the

door, saying, get the fuck out,

00:39:01,461 --> 00:39:02,961

get the fuck out, get the fuck out.

00:39:03,051 --> 00:39:03,471

Oh my God.

00:39:03,561 --> 00:39:06,411

And so he left immediately, which

like, But so we opened the door.

00:39:06,441 --> 00:39:07,071

Nobody was there.

00:39:07,101 --> 00:39:07,431

Yeah.

00:39:07,551 --> 00:39:08,751

It was like also plausible.

00:39:08,751 --> 00:39:09,471

That was a person.

00:39:09,591 --> 00:39:09,861

Right.

00:39:10,161 --> 00:39:10,551

No, no, no.

00:39:10,641 --> 00:39:11,661

He left immediately.

00:39:11,691 --> 00:39:13,101

He knew exactly what it was.

00:39:14,181 --> 00:39:15,321

I know it's really scary.

00:39:15,381 --> 00:39:18,021

I I've heard this story like a couple

of times, so I feel a little more

00:39:18,021 --> 00:39:20,581

like adjusted to it, but, , oh my God.

00:39:20,611 --> 00:39:22,681

They're like they feel chills and stuff.

00:39:22,681 --> 00:39:25,261

And like, sometimes they hear like

scratching on the back of seats.

00:39:25,831 --> 00:39:29,221

But for the most part, he

doesn't like mess with customers.

00:39:29,221 --> 00:39:30,751

It's like not that kind of thing.

00:39:31,291 --> 00:39:33,901

Because mostly he just wants

to be left alone at night.

00:39:34,081 --> 00:39:36,451

It's like, I don't want people

here, like leave me alone.

00:39:36,551 --> 00:39:38,591

, do they have any idea who the ghost is?

00:39:38,621 --> 00:39:39,131

Like somebody.

00:39:39,191 --> 00:39:40,451

Has now died there.

00:39:41,081 --> 00:39:43,501

They think it might be someone who

like worked there or there's like a

00:39:43,501 --> 00:39:45,541

big homeless population around there.

00:39:45,941 --> 00:39:48,971

, I, they used to like, let

people sleep there sometimes.

00:39:48,971 --> 00:39:50,411

So like something could have happened.

00:39:50,771 --> 00:39:53,471

There's like something that

people have theorized about.

00:39:53,561 --> 00:39:54,341

Oh, I don't know.

00:39:54,341 --> 00:39:57,661

It could, it could be really anything,

but, I don't think he's a mean ghost.

00:39:57,731 --> 00:40:00,761

I've been in there and I've been

like, okay, the presences here.

00:40:01,181 --> 00:40:02,141

Are not negative.

00:40:02,221 --> 00:40:03,811

It's not good either.

00:40:03,811 --> 00:40:05,131

It's just like neutral.

00:40:05,161 --> 00:40:05,491

Yeah.

00:40:05,491 --> 00:40:07,771

It's like, basically, like, he just

doesn't want to be fucked with.

00:40:07,921 --> 00:40:08,191

Okay.

00:40:08,221 --> 00:40:10,201

Which is very hashtag relatable.

00:40:10,771 --> 00:40:13,171

That's all you can ask

for really like I get it.

00:40:13,231 --> 00:40:13,651

Yeah.

00:40:13,751 --> 00:40:14,981

, And like people know about him.

00:40:14,981 --> 00:40:17,951

So that might be another reason

why he's like, don't fuck with me.

00:40:17,951 --> 00:40:18,881

Like I live here.

00:40:19,991 --> 00:40:20,771

It's interesting.

00:40:20,801 --> 00:40:22,451

Interesting in an old.

00:40:23,111 --> 00:40:24,611

Establishment like that.

00:40:24,641 --> 00:40:28,781

You're like, am I feeling things

or is this place just old?

00:40:29,051 --> 00:40:31,121

And it's just like the energy of.

00:40:32,051 --> 00:40:33,761

History and not new construction.

00:40:33,821 --> 00:40:34,571

You know, right.

00:40:34,571 --> 00:40:35,411

But I go to the Plaza.

00:40:35,441 --> 00:40:37,541

I mean, gentlemen, I know you and

your husband do too a lot, like

00:40:37,541 --> 00:40:40,301

weaker, regular Plaza, attendees.

00:40:41,351 --> 00:40:41,921

I am too.

00:40:42,791 --> 00:40:43,871

I've never seen anything.

00:40:44,051 --> 00:40:44,231

Yeah.

00:40:44,531 --> 00:40:45,011

That's the thing.

00:40:45,041 --> 00:40:46,811

He doesn't like mess with customers.

00:40:46,871 --> 00:40:47,141

Yeah.

00:40:47,171 --> 00:40:47,741

He knows.

00:40:47,951 --> 00:40:48,281

Yeah.

00:40:48,311 --> 00:40:49,121

Who butters his bread.

00:40:49,181 --> 00:40:49,691

And so.

00:40:50,381 --> 00:40:53,501

And so, I didn't know, my friend was

working there and I found out like

00:40:53,531 --> 00:40:55,721

literally the other day and I was

like, oh my God, it's the ghost real.

00:40:55,781 --> 00:40:57,941

And he was like, oh yeah, Wow.

00:40:57,941 --> 00:40:58,391

I was like, whoa.

00:40:58,901 --> 00:41:00,821

Because I've heard about

it for so long now.

00:41:00,941 --> 00:41:01,301

Oh my God.

00:41:01,301 --> 00:41:02,411

Your friend should come on this podcast.

00:41:03,371 --> 00:41:05,171

Next week, next week.

00:41:05,651 --> 00:41:05,921

Yeah.

00:41:06,461 --> 00:41:07,001

Episode.

00:41:07,541 --> 00:41:08,201

Halloween.

00:41:08,321 --> 00:41:09,011

I mean wine.

00:41:09,071 --> 00:41:09,581

Yeah.

00:41:09,581 --> 00:41:09,791

Yeah.

00:41:09,871 --> 00:41:12,001

. I had no idea that the conversation

was going to pivot to this direction.

00:41:12,241 --> 00:41:13,471

I've had to, I had to.

00:41:15,171 --> 00:41:18,111

, I have a question for you

regarding landscape architecture.

00:41:18,531 --> 00:41:19,071

Um, okay.

00:41:19,071 --> 00:41:21,411

So I met this landscape architecture.

00:41:21,801 --> 00:41:22,371

Architect.

00:41:22,941 --> 00:41:23,451

Was it me?

00:41:23,661 --> 00:41:23,901

No.

00:41:24,351 --> 00:41:26,631

You're my second, who I've

met, which is very fun.

00:41:26,791 --> 00:41:28,411

, he works at a private first.

00:41:29,971 --> 00:41:31,351

He works at a private firm.

00:41:31,351 --> 00:41:35,881

And I produced a commercial that

like he was helping with for an art

00:41:35,881 --> 00:41:40,841

piece in Atlanta and they were like

designing the park where this art piece.

00:41:41,051 --> 00:41:41,591

We'll be.

00:41:41,961 --> 00:41:45,891

So that's his whole job designing

this thing in the middle of the city.

00:41:46,191 --> 00:41:47,631

Um, it's where those waterfalls are.

00:41:47,931 --> 00:41:48,711

I don't know if you know.

00:41:49,191 --> 00:41:50,481

Yeah, Woodriff park.

00:41:50,511 --> 00:41:51,141

Yes.

00:41:51,711 --> 00:41:52,191

We were like,

00:41:53,931 --> 00:41:56,721

I'm going to say fresh vendors

up on that design competition.

00:41:57,741 --> 00:41:59,541

I have a lot of thoughts about

that, but I'm excited that

00:41:59,541 --> 00:42:00,201

they're actually building it.

00:42:00,201 --> 00:42:02,601

It was, it was a design competition.

00:42:02,661 --> 00:42:04,281

That's the exact thing I'm talking about.

00:42:04,491 --> 00:42:05,601

No, no.

00:42:05,721 --> 00:42:06,771

That's so crazy.

00:42:06,801 --> 00:42:08,091

Atlanta legacy makers.

00:42:08,121 --> 00:42:08,601

Yes.

00:42:08,691 --> 00:42:09,981

And I did the video for them.

00:42:10,011 --> 00:42:10,731

That's amazing.

00:42:10,881 --> 00:42:11,631

That was great.

00:42:11,661 --> 00:42:12,141

Thank you.

00:42:13,101 --> 00:42:14,181

It actually, no, it turned out.

00:42:14,361 --> 00:42:15,021

Beautiful.

00:42:15,051 --> 00:42:16,521

I was so proud of that video.

00:42:16,521 --> 00:42:17,061

That's the video.

00:42:17,061 --> 00:42:17,571

I show people.

00:42:17,571 --> 00:42:20,031

It's like here I produce, look

at it like the one when they

00:42:20,061 --> 00:42:21,261

announced the competition.

00:42:21,561 --> 00:42:22,821

Um, I I'll show you it.

00:42:25,131 --> 00:42:27,021

Um, but anyways, small world.

00:42:27,741 --> 00:42:28,341

Yeah, it is.

00:42:28,341 --> 00:42:32,271

But I was working with this guy because

he was part of the video, obviously.

00:42:32,651 --> 00:42:33,371

, and.

00:42:33,408 --> 00:42:36,988

We were just walking down the street

in Atlanta and he's picking weeds.

00:42:37,378 --> 00:42:40,998

Out of these random grass area.

00:42:41,028 --> 00:42:43,278

And it like in the middle

of downtown Atlanta.

00:42:43,308 --> 00:42:44,838

And I was like, what are you doing?

00:42:45,168 --> 00:42:47,808

And he's like, oh, I'm just,

you know, I'm just weeding.

00:42:48,168 --> 00:42:52,338

He's like in full business

attire, , it was just so funny to me.

00:42:52,338 --> 00:42:56,928

And I was like, wow, you are so

genuinely passionate about this.

00:42:56,958 --> 00:43:01,418

That , if you're going around town

on your lunchtime walk, weeding.

00:43:01,868 --> 00:43:05,798

I'm wondering if you feel similarly,

do you ever do stuff like that?

00:43:05,848 --> 00:43:07,588

. I pick up a lot of random trash.

00:43:08,248 --> 00:43:08,938

Yeah.

00:43:08,938 --> 00:43:09,568

Yeah.

00:43:10,768 --> 00:43:13,048

That's the same thing I do think it is.

00:43:13,078 --> 00:43:14,728

I think, I think it falls into it.

00:43:14,758 --> 00:43:14,878

It's.

00:43:15,118 --> 00:43:16,258

Caring about your city.

00:43:16,378 --> 00:43:17,038

Environment.

00:43:17,098 --> 00:43:17,248

Yeah.

00:43:17,428 --> 00:43:21,358

Like you care about the literal look

of these places, which literal litter.

00:43:21,628 --> 00:43:21,838

Yeah.

00:43:22,738 --> 00:43:23,128

Yeah.

00:43:23,278 --> 00:43:24,568

The literal liver.

00:43:25,378 --> 00:43:31,678

Yeah, no, I find that so amazing because

I truthfully I'm not, I don't do that.

00:43:32,428 --> 00:43:35,248

I don't look at Josh and I'm not,

I'm like, oh, I need to pick it up.

00:43:35,308 --> 00:43:35,878

I mean, I wish.

00:43:36,358 --> 00:43:37,408

I wish I did things that.

00:43:37,678 --> 00:43:39,088

Back rapper, throw it out the window.

00:43:39,298 --> 00:43:40,438

No, I don't do that.

00:43:40,438 --> 00:43:43,678

I don't litter personally,

but if I see litter, I'm like,

00:43:43,738 --> 00:43:44,368

Ooh, I don't want to touch.

00:43:44,638 --> 00:43:45,958

Like, somebody should pick that up.

00:43:47,338 --> 00:43:49,018

I, yeah, I don't know.

00:43:49,228 --> 00:43:51,748

I'm worried about, I'm kind of a

germaphobe, so like I'm a little worried

00:43:51,748 --> 00:43:53,248

about that kind of stuff sometimes.

00:43:53,398 --> 00:43:56,858

So I regularly there's, , unhoused

people that will kind of camp out in

00:43:56,858 --> 00:44:00,968

the little stoops in front of these

businesses and they'll leave trash and

00:44:00,968 --> 00:44:03,248

sometimes it's food, sometimes it's waste.

00:44:03,248 --> 00:44:03,698

Growth.

00:44:03,758 --> 00:44:04,208

Yeah.

00:44:04,448 --> 00:44:08,198

There's a spectrum of things, but

I will regularly put on gloves,

00:44:08,228 --> 00:44:11,678

grab my, like a trash bag and my

broom and like clean the steps and

00:44:11,678 --> 00:44:13,088

like up and down the streets and.

00:44:13,148 --> 00:44:13,658

I got.

00:44:13,838 --> 00:44:16,478

Yeah, because I'm like,

who's no one else is doing.

00:44:17,108 --> 00:44:18,518

My customer's about to walk by this.

00:44:18,568 --> 00:44:20,728

I have a quick and crazy littering story.

00:44:20,978 --> 00:44:27,038

, I was driving down the street and I

was behind a car and I saw them litter.

00:44:27,098 --> 00:44:30,028

I'm like, like a like solid

amount of like, , maybe not

00:44:30,028 --> 00:44:31,288

like a full McDonald's bag.

00:44:31,558 --> 00:44:32,458

That happened before.

00:44:32,518 --> 00:44:32,638

Yeah.

00:44:32,848 --> 00:44:33,778

And I, I was shocked.

00:44:33,808 --> 00:44:34,948

I was like, what the fuck?

00:44:35,188 --> 00:44:37,918

And I got to the point where

they were going straight and

00:44:37,918 --> 00:44:38,818

I was going to take a left.

00:44:38,848 --> 00:44:40,048

So I, it was a two lane road.

00:44:40,048 --> 00:44:42,538

So I was up at a stop

sign right next to them.

00:44:42,898 --> 00:44:45,548

And I was like, I'm going to fucking

say something , this is insane.

00:44:45,788 --> 00:44:47,558

So like her window was down.

00:44:47,888 --> 00:44:50,578

So . I think it was two women in

the car and there's a baby in the

00:44:50,578 --> 00:44:52,498

backseat and their window was down.

00:44:52,498 --> 00:44:54,028

I want to say she was smoking.

00:44:54,058 --> 00:44:54,988

Don't quote me on that.

00:44:55,138 --> 00:44:58,348

But I rolled up my window and I said,

excuse me, you dropped something.

00:44:58,978 --> 00:45:01,768

And she looked me dead in the eyes

and she goes, we'll pick it up then.

00:45:03,028 --> 00:45:04,288

And I was like, oh my God.

00:45:05,818 --> 00:45:08,458

Oh, And I wouldn't do that now

because I'd be afraid of getting

00:45:08,458 --> 00:45:10,228

shot, but I know I was going to say.

00:45:10,678 --> 00:45:11,758

He would never do dialysis.

00:45:11,908 --> 00:45:12,508

I would not do that.

00:45:12,568 --> 00:45:14,128

Yeah, I will never do it again.

00:45:14,188 --> 00:45:16,318

I was stunned by the reaction that

was like, pick it up then I'm just

00:45:16,348 --> 00:45:19,048

like, you know, you're just littered

and you're getting called out on it.

00:45:19,048 --> 00:45:21,268

And that's the response

like, heck get up then.

00:45:21,688 --> 00:45:22,858

That's so bold.

00:45:22,888 --> 00:45:26,218

So bull, the whole process was bold

and I was just like, what the fuck?

00:45:26,248 --> 00:45:26,278

That.

00:45:26,308 --> 00:45:27,088

That is crazy.

00:45:27,118 --> 00:45:27,388

I know.

00:45:27,388 --> 00:45:29,458

So if you're listening,

don't fucking litter.

00:45:30,268 --> 00:45:30,868

Animals.

00:45:31,108 --> 00:45:33,088

I don't think anybody who listens

to this podcast would be illiterate.

00:45:33,298 --> 00:45:34,858

I mean, I feel like that our listeners.

00:45:35,338 --> 00:45:36,598

Very rare thing.

00:45:36,628 --> 00:45:38,158

Like most people.

00:45:38,448 --> 00:45:40,308

I would assume most people.

00:45:40,338 --> 00:45:42,138

No, not where about the planet?

00:45:42,248 --> 00:45:44,228

Can I take it back to

landscape architecture?

00:45:45,681 --> 00:45:47,931

So the cool thing about

landscape architecture.

00:45:48,321 --> 00:45:52,671

Is that in looking at the land

is like this larger thing.

00:45:52,731 --> 00:45:56,451

You can look at ways that it

benefits society on different levels.

00:45:56,451 --> 00:46:00,831

So like, yes, it might be beautiful, but

also maybe you can absorb stormwater,

00:46:00,831 --> 00:46:02,451

so it doesn't flood downstream.

00:46:02,451 --> 00:46:06,201

And then you don't have to build bigger

pipes and spend a lot of taxpayer money

00:46:06,201 --> 00:46:07,911

on that because the existing ones work.

00:46:08,661 --> 00:46:11,811

Or maybe you create pollinator

environments in which.

00:46:12,381 --> 00:46:13,191

We can, you know, help.

00:46:13,422 --> 00:46:16,632

Honeybees live or there is

just so many different ways

00:46:16,632 --> 00:46:18,162

in which the land can do more.

00:46:18,192 --> 00:46:21,132

And I think that we should

demand, especially when

00:46:21,132 --> 00:46:22,602

there's public money involved.

00:46:22,902 --> 00:46:24,852

We should demand that the land do more.

00:46:24,852 --> 00:46:25,752

If we should not have.

00:46:26,532 --> 00:46:28,182

Just a single use park.