Are you a podcast editor seeking to stay ahead of industry trends? Are you worried that AI might take your business away? Do you want to be at the forefront of discussions and take charge of the conversation?

In this episode, we'll be talking with Bethany Hawkins about the latest trends in podcasting and how they could affect you as an editor or producer. And don't miss the discussion on how AI tools can be helpful but can also fail if the creators have limited expertise. It's important to understand both sides of the coin.

Listen To...

• Be able to share why the trend of ignoring the crucial role of quality audio is unsustainable.
• Explore the implications of AI and ChatGPT within podcasting and choose how to embrace what is positive.
• Discover why some AI tools are actually creating more business for podcast editors and producers.
• Recognize that the podcast production community is exceptional and valuable. The film and television production companies are now using and learning from our work.

Links And Resources

• sonible - Bryan likes some of their plugins. A lot. (This is an affiliate link, so qualifying purchases do benefit Bryan.)
• SEO ASSIST - Bethany mentioned this tool.
• The Technically Human Podcast - This is the show Carrie referenced.
• Chatting Over Chowder - This is Bethany's podcast.
• Cracker In Soup - This is Bethany's podcast production business.

ABOUT BETHANY HAWKINS

Bethany Hawkins is an accomplished podcast editing expert and the CEO of Crackers in Soup, an award-nominated podcast production and coaching company. Boasting a portfolio of over 80 podcasts, Bethany has been in the industry since 2019, witnessing the transformation of podcasting and the rise of AI.

She has expertise in spotting industry trends and ensuring high-quality audio. She provides great value to podcast editors looking to enhance their skills and stay on top of the dynamic world of podcast editing.

And she's REALLY fun to talk with. :)

Our Editor

This episode of the Podcast Editors Mastermind was edited by Alejandro Ramirez. You can find him on LinkedIn if you're interested in talking with him about editing your show.

Be a Guest

If you're a podcast editor, we'd love to see if you'd be a fit for a future episode. Fill out this form to let us know you're interested, and we'll contact you to see if it's a good fit.

Your Yetis Are

• Daniel Abendroth | Roth Media
• Carrie Caulfield | Carrie.Land
• Bryan Entzminger | Top Tier Audio
• Jennifer Longworth | Bourbon Barrel Podcasting

About the Podcast Editors Mastermind

The Podcast Editors Mastermind is for professional podcast editors who want to grow their business and get more clients. We’re creating a community of like-minded professionals that are passionate about the art and science of editing podcasts.

Our goal is to help you build your business by providing tools, resources, and support so you can focus on what matters most—your craft. This isn’t just another group where everyone talks about how great they are at podcast editing; we show our work!

This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy

Carrie: 00:00:04

So how much is that?

Carrie: 00:00:13

So

Carrie: 00:00:16

you

Carrie: 00:00:18

and welcome to the podcast editors of Master Mind, this

Carrie: 00:00:22

show about the business of podcast editing. I'm your host

Carrie: 00:00:27

tonight, Cory Coffield. Eric. You can learn more about me at

Carrie: 00:00:31

Kari Dot Land, L, A and D. I'm joined by Ryan and Slinger of

Carrie: 00:00:38

top tier audio and not able to join us tonight. Daniel

Carrie: 00:00:43

Abendroth from Roth Media and Jennifer Longworth of Bourbon

Carrie: 00:00:50

Barrel podcast. We are excited to welcome tonight Bethany

Carrie: 00:00:55

Hawkins, founder of the podcast service agency Crackers in Soup.

Carrie: 00:01:02

You can find her at Crackers in Soup dot com. She also has a

Carrie: 00:01:07

wonderful podcast called Chatting over Chowder, which you

Carrie: 00:01:12

should definitely check out.

Bethany: 00:01:14

Thank you for having me. And you know, it's it's hella

Bethany: 00:01:17

late. It's 9 p.m. I've usually been in bed for a good hour

Bethany: 00:01:21

because I'm super old. So however you want to see my name.

Carrie: 00:01:26

It's, you know, I'm tripping over because it's 9:00

Carrie: 00:01:30

and just say, God.

Bethany: 00:01:33

I literally had to take a nap to appear at this meeting

Bethany: 00:01:36

because I'm in that stage of my life.

Bryan: 00:01:38

I know Steve said something about a drinking game,

Bryan: 00:01:40

but I think it's a little bit early for us to start that. So

Bryan: 00:01:43

not.

Bethany: 00:01:43

Yet. Can our drinking game be coffee?

Bryan: 00:01:46

Yeah, totally.

Carrie: 00:01:46

You know, we'll pick a day and have a drunk podcast at

Carrie: 00:01:49

any discussion that you might mind.

Bethany: 00:01:53

That could be fire. Fire.

Carrie: 00:01:56

So we are talking about the future of the podcast

Carrie: 00:02:00

editing in history. Lots of things have been happening and

Carrie: 00:02:04

the podcast landscape is shifting. Podcasting is becoming

Carrie: 00:02:09

more mainstream and I just thought it was a good time to

Carrie: 00:02:14

like take a minute and be like, Hey, what do you see? What's

Carrie: 00:02:17

going on? What do you think? And kind of open up the conversation.

Carrie: 00:02:22

And Steve says, We can't play the drinking game because we

Carrie: 00:02:25

should not influence the outcome. So yeah, this show would be like

Carrie: 00:02:31

in Coherent if I were drinking. Steve didn't take much, but we

Carrie: 00:02:37

wanted to talk about what is going on in our industry

Carrie: 00:02:43

particularly. We don't have a ton of these conversations like

Carrie: 00:02:48

out loud in public. I mean, we do like privately and we have

Carrie: 00:02:52

our little things, but so I thought it would be great to

Carrie: 00:02:56

start a conversation with you all. And one of the reasons I

Carrie: 00:03:00

have Bethenny on here is because she is so insightful and she

Carrie: 00:03:04

like she straps podcast editing wisdom bombs that. So I just

Carrie: 00:03:09

knew I had to have her on for this topic. And thank you,

Carrie: 00:03:11

Bethenny, for saying yes. But before we begin, can you tell us

Carrie: 00:03:16

a little bit about what you do specifically, Bethenny?

Bethany: 00:03:20

Sure. Firstly, let me say hello, Steve. Hello, Sandra.

Bethany: 00:03:23

Steve, you in the past? Me, I do what I want. Let the drinking

Bethany: 00:03:26

games commence.

Bethany: 00:03:29

Secondly, I am Anthony Hawkins. I am the CEO and founder of

Bethany: 00:03:33

Crackers in Soup. Crackers and Soup is a podcast production and

Bethany: 00:03:37

coaching company. And we have worked on over 80 podcasts. We

Bethany: 00:03:42

are winning an award nominated production company, which is

Bethany: 00:03:46

just wild to me. Our business started in 2019 and since then

Bethany: 00:03:51

we have hit the ground running. It is really interesting to see

Bethany: 00:03:56

the changes of the podcasting industry in that short amount of

Bethany: 00:04:01

time. I feel like if you started in podcasting in any aspect, in

Bethany: 00:04:05

podcasting, whether it was production or management or copy

Bethany: 00:04:09

or just creating a podcast before COVID, it's like you're a

Bethany: 00:04:14

dinosaur, a

Bethany: 00:04:19

But it's because there have been so many changes since COVID

Bethany: 00:04:24

happened. It's wild. The courses that I took and the information

Bethany: 00:04:28

that I learned in early 2019 to create this business. A lot of

Bethany: 00:04:34

it has become obsolete now because of A.I., because of the

Bethany: 00:04:38

technological advances. And I just think that it is so

Bethany: 00:04:42

interesting to watch the progression as somebody who

Bethany: 00:04:45

started before, like the AI explosion and podcasting.

Carrie: 00:04:48

So I wanted to ask you all, what specifically have you

Carrie: 00:04:54

seen recently as kind of an emerging trend? How about you,

Carrie: 00:05:01

Bethany?

Bethany: 00:05:02

So with the explosion of YouTube creating podcasts.

Bryan: 00:05:07

Wait, did you just say YouTube, creating podcasts.

Bethany: 00:05:10

YouTube, creating podcasts?

Bryan: 00:05:12

I'm sorry, that's fake news.

Bethany: 00:05:16

Now that YouTube is saying we're a podcast hosting

Bethany: 00:05:19

station, I see a lot of what I consider soft editing. And if

Bethany: 00:05:24

people are going to be using the audio from editing, they're now

Bethany: 00:05:27

at a point where they are not taking the time to do all of the

Bethany: 00:05:32

audio enhancements that your listener really deserves. So

Bethany: 00:05:37

taking out those long pauses, taking out the incessant filler

Bethany: 00:05:43

words, normalizing the audio so that you're not blasting their

Bethany: 00:05:47

ears out, or even the little things that Steve actually often

Bethany: 00:05:52

talks about, like making sure that your microphone is working,

Bethany: 00:05:54

making sure that you have plug in headphones. They're not

Bethany: 00:05:57

taking the time and opportunity to do things like that. They're

Bethany: 00:05:59

just making sure that they're surrounding as pretty because

Bethany: 00:06:02

it's going to be loaded up on on video and then they're not

Bethany: 00:06:06

understanding why they're not getting the downloads from the

Bethany: 00:06:08

audio because you're not doing your due diligence when it comes

Bethany: 00:06:11

to the audio. So I like to consider it soft editing. I'm

Bethany: 00:06:16

not going to use the word,

Bethany: 00:06:20

but I feel like it's a disservice if you are going to

Bethany: 00:06:23

be calling yourself a podcaster and not clean up the audio when

Bethany: 00:06:30

you're uploading it and it's going through the distribution

Bethany: 00:06:33

like Apple and Spotify and such. So that's a trend that I'm

Bethany: 00:06:37

seeing and it may give me hives, I'm just saying.

Carrie: 00:06:41

So there's a disconnect for me here that I don't just

Carrie: 00:06:44

understand why people do this, because there's still audio on

Carrie: 00:06:48

video. So I'm not just like looking at you. I don't just

Carrie: 00:06:52

want to stare at you watching, you know, for the entire

Carrie: 00:06:57

experience. So why do you think that they don't consider that at

Carrie: 00:07:01

all? Like, what am I missing that make people not care?

Bethany: 00:07:05

I think what's happening now is everything is

Bethany: 00:07:08

short stints of information, so they want it quick and they want

Bethany: 00:07:13

a visual, but they want to call it a podcast. So when I started,

Bethany: 00:07:18

I was taught if it's done on RSS feed and uploaded into a podcast

Bethany: 00:07:23

hosting station, it is not a podcast and I'm probably going

Bethany: 00:07:26

to die on that hill. And I like that the video is coming out. I

Bethany: 00:07:30

think that that helps with engagement because you really

Bethany: 00:07:33

get an opportunity to see the people's facial expression and

Bethany: 00:07:36

it gives it a little bit more nuance than just listening to

Bethany: 00:07:40

the audio. But if I am listening to a podcast, I am listening to

Bethany: 00:07:43

it as an audio. So please make your audio good. If not great, I.

Carrie: 00:07:49

Will take comfortable.

Bethany: 00:07:52

I get moved all around. So if there's somebody who's

Bethany: 00:07:54

consistently having noises in the background like a dog

Bethany: 00:07:57

barking or like like a garbage truck happening and that's not

Bethany: 00:08:01

taken out, I'm immediately distracted by that. And I've

Bethany: 00:08:06

missed a good 5 minutes of what you were talking about.

Bryan: 00:08:08

This is just my perspective. I think there's

Bryan: 00:08:10

really two things going on. One, I think we've gotten the

Bryan: 00:08:13

consistent message that audiences don't care. And so if

Bryan: 00:08:17

you come from the world of lean manufacturing or value based

Bryan: 00:08:20

pricing or something like that, a thing that you do that

Bryan: 00:08:23

somebody won't pay for is waste. So why would I waste my time if

Bryan: 00:08:28

my audience, as somebody told me, doesn't care? And I think

Bryan: 00:08:33

there's alongside that, there's maybe a little bit of a lack of

Bryan: 00:08:36

pride that says, well, if it's good enough for my audience,

Bryan: 00:08:38

then I shouldn't care. It doesn't represent me. But in my

Bryan: 00:08:42

view, and I could be wrong, the best channels on YouTube are

Bryan: 00:08:47

edited, the most popular channels on YouTube, even if

Bryan: 00:08:50

they're blathering, idiots are edited and they are strategic

Bryan: 00:08:54

and they are done well. The best podcasts are done well. If we

Bryan: 00:08:57

want to live in a world where Wayne's World, where two guys

Bryan: 00:09:01

living in a basement make a stupid show with really low

Bryan: 00:09:04

production quality, we're going to look back five years from now

Bryan: 00:09:07

and say, Oh, it's just the big money that came into podcasting

Bryan: 00:09:10

that ruined everything. No, it's that you didn't care enough

Bryan: 00:09:13

about your craft to defend your ability to do something. Well,

Bryan: 00:09:16

this isn't about defending my turf. This is about saying I

Bryan: 00:09:19

care enough to make something that I'm proud of, that the

Bryan: 00:09:23

people that listen to will enjoy and be pleased by. And I care

Bryan: 00:09:28

enough to take out all the garbage before I invite people

Bryan: 00:09:31

into my house and ask them to sit down for an.

Carrie: 00:09:33

Hour with me. Yeah, I love that. I think that's a good

Carrie: 00:09:36

point. Now I'm just thinking about the irony is I'm sitting

Carrie: 00:09:38

here like I forgot to turn the air conditioner off and my dad

Carrie: 00:09:41

is calling on the intercom, so.

Bryan: 00:09:43

But that won't be in the final.

Carrie: 00:09:45

I don't know that Alejandro is good, though, so.

Carrie: 00:09:50

No, but, you know, I have noticed. Okay, so I'm not going

Carrie: 00:09:55

to lie. I love it. And I love it for two reasons. I love it

Carrie: 00:09:58

because there are some really brilliant content creators on

Carrie: 00:10:02

there and great interesting content, but also because you

Carrie: 00:10:08

can see the rise of somebody who does take the time to create

Carrie: 00:10:15

good content. You can literally like watch them grow day by day,

Carrie: 00:10:20

and it is just the most kind of amazing thing. And I just been

Carrie: 00:10:26

dissecting kind of what what are they're doing that's working and

Carrie: 00:10:29

one of what's not working. Like, why are some like getting stuck

Carrie: 00:10:33

and why are others taking off? And I and I really think it it

Carrie: 00:10:36

comes down to kind of the quality, the consistency and the

Carrie: 00:10:40

content, right? I don't feel like that's really heavily

Carrie: 00:10:44

taught consistency, you know, maybe content, but like quality

Carrie: 00:10:49

is, is the really hard part. I think. Jesse McEwen says the

Carrie: 00:10:55

longer the content is, the more important quality becomes.

Carrie: 00:10:58

Absolutely. People can tolerate poor audio for a couple of

Carrie: 00:11:02

minutes on a real but not much. About 30 minute piece of content.

Carrie: 00:11:06

Yeah, unless you are exceptional like a phenomena. Is there

Carrie: 00:11:12

anything we can do about like is it ever going to change or are

Carrie: 00:11:14

we going to have to adapt to it? Because, you know, the reality

Carrie: 00:11:18

is people's perception is people's perception. A lot of

Carrie: 00:11:22

the market isn't interested in quality like, you know, what do

Carrie: 00:11:26

you do about that?

Bryan: 00:11:28

The market won't endure forever, right? The market will

Bryan: 00:11:31

not abide this forever, because the ones that do care will rise

Bryan: 00:11:36

to the top and the ones that don't will say, well, podcasting

Bryan: 00:11:38

doesn't work and they'll get mad and they'll throw down their

Bryan: 00:11:40

ball and bat and go home.

Carrie: 00:11:41

But the crazy thing is, if you're good, if you're good

Carrie: 00:11:44

at podcasting, you make the money. I mean, to spear you like,

Carrie: 00:11:49

you can monetize yourself.

Bethany: 00:11:51

But I think that this is when it's really important

Bethany: 00:11:53

for people who are creating courses or people who are

Bethany: 00:11:56

teaching either podcast management or production or

Bethany: 00:12:00

audio engineering to emphasize the importance of having great

Bethany: 00:12:05

audio. So even if you are not editing the video, you are doing

Bethany: 00:12:10

all of the things to set yourself up for success. When

Bethany: 00:12:13

you extract that audio from that video and also being able to

Bethany: 00:12:18

explain it to your potential client or your potential

Bethany: 00:12:22

audience, why you are taking the time to work and admire and not

Bethany: 00:12:28

just throw it into some API and cross your fingers and hope that

Bethany: 00:12:33

they do all of the things that it usually would take you hours

Bethany: 00:12:37

to do. So I think the onus is put on the people in the

Bethany: 00:12:41

industry that are paying their mortgage with creating this

Bethany: 00:12:46

content on behalf of the people that are retaining them.

Bryan: 00:12:49

Part of me also says, you know, there's in the past

Bryan: 00:12:52

there's been a culture of gatekeeping, not so much within

Bryan: 00:12:55

podcasting, but in other media, right? And so for a long time,

Bryan: 00:12:58

the message of podcasting was just get started, figure it out

Bryan: 00:13:02

on the way and keep getting better. The problem is we've

Bryan: 00:13:05

forgotten about the continuous improvement part as a broader

Bryan: 00:13:09

community is speaking in broad strokes, right?

Carrie: 00:13:12

What did podcasting ever consider what its adulthood

Carrie: 00:13:15

would look like?

Bethany: 00:13:16

Probably not, because it's only 20 years old right now.

Bethany: 00:13:19

It can't even so podcasting can't even rent a car right?

Bethany: 00:13:24

Can do car. So Emmy isn't a dolt, but is it really an adult? I

Bethany: 00:13:29

remember when I was 20.

Carrie: 00:13:30

Yeah. I wouldn't trust me with anything.

Bethany: 00:13:33

I can't believe I was allowed to vote on this.

Bryan: 00:13:37

And the beautiful thing about podcasting is that you

Bryan: 00:13:39

don't have to be old enough to vote to have one, right? In fact,

Bryan: 00:13:44

if you can get a parent to sign off for you, you don't even have

Bryan: 00:13:46

to be 13 to have one, unlike getting a YouTube channel or

Bryan: 00:13:49

something like that. I mean, of course there are terms of

Bryan: 00:13:51

service and stuff, but it is the place where you can do

Bryan: 00:13:56

essentially whatever you want, so long as it's legal, right?

Bryan: 00:13:59

You don't get shut down for that reason. But that doesn't mean

Bryan: 00:14:01

you should and it doesn't mean that you shouldn't continue to

Bryan: 00:14:04

try to improve. I know of a couple of shows that are quite

Bryan: 00:14:07

unedited and one of one or two of them are pretty popular. The

Bryan: 00:14:10

thing is, the people that are hosting those shows have been

Bryan: 00:14:13

doing it since before podcasting was a thing. And they're good.

Bryan: 00:14:17

They were good before they started and they've only gotten

Bryan: 00:14:19

better and they've built their entire process to take them live,

Bryan: 00:14:22

to drive so that all they have to do is export the file. I'm

Bryan: 00:14:26

not that good. Me not edited as well. This. Yeah.

Carrie: 00:14:30

It is a train wreck. Yeah.

Bethany: 00:14:32

So but I think that that also goes back to learning

Bethany: 00:14:37

to listen to your content and learning to listen to what you

Bethany: 00:14:41

put out and learning from that experience of listening. As a

Bethany: 00:14:45

person who hasn't heard this content before and saying, Oh,

Bethany: 00:14:49

this is where I can make changes, This was super dope, I love this.

Bethany: 00:14:52

Let's keep that in. When I talk to my clients, I let them know

Bethany: 00:14:55

the first season is usually 12 episodes. We usually do the

Bethany: 00:14:59

first season of the 12 episodes. That season is for learning like

Bethany: 00:15:02

we're not going back and listening to your episodes as

Bethany: 00:15:05

soon as they're published. Not only are you helping you

Bethany: 00:15:08

download numbers, but but you should be taking just mental

Bethany: 00:15:12

note. I say like too much. I pause significantly. I'm not

Bethany: 00:15:17

taking an opportunity to think about what I'm going to say

Bethany: 00:15:20

before I verbalize it. Those little nuances are going to help

Bethany: 00:15:25

you in the long editing process. If eventually you want to take

Bethany: 00:15:29

control of your podcast and do everything yourself.

Carrie: 00:15:32

And I would argue that a lot of us, before we started

Carrie: 00:15:36

editing for other people, we were listening to our content,

Carrie: 00:15:40

we were critiquing ourselves. We were like, Oh my God, it's and

Carrie: 00:15:43

again, and I'm going to work on that. Like you made that

Carrie: 00:15:46

commitment because you were like, If I can shave an hour off of

Carrie: 00:15:49

editing, I'll be thrilled. And that's the exact thing that we

Carrie: 00:15:54

are wanting to relieve our clients from that laborious

Carrie: 00:15:58

editing part. They don't like that. They obviously aren't

Carrie: 00:16:01

doing so. Does that mean that maybe the customers will not

Carrie: 00:16:09

want editors quite as much because they're not for the

Carrie: 00:16:13

podcasters and aren't going to need editors quite as much

Carrie: 00:16:16

because they're just throwing it on YouTube. And then if they do

Carrie: 00:16:20

have an editor, then are they going to want a video editor,

Carrie: 00:16:23

for instance? Like should we all be learning like DaVinci Resolve

Carrie: 00:16:28

or Adobe Premiere? I mean, what is you know, because those two

Carrie: 00:16:33

things like audio is not going away, but neither is video. And

Carrie: 00:16:37

if a person can or if a content creator or anybody can just make

Carrie: 00:16:41

them all together and like just repair, you know, divide up the,

Carrie: 00:16:46

you know, whatever, distribute it, do we need to learn those

Carrie: 00:16:49

skills?

Bethany: 00:16:50

I do not offer video services because I'm not good at

Bethany: 00:16:54

it and I'm not going to have somebody pay me for something

Bethany: 00:16:59

that I am not good at. Like, don't waste your money on me and

Bethany: 00:17:03

I don't want to edit video.

Carrie: 00:17:06

I don't either.

Bethany: 00:17:07

I have no desire and I think knowing who you are and

Bethany: 00:17:11

what you want and what services you want to provide, where is

Bethany: 00:17:14

your zone of genius? Where do you want to learn to be better?

Bethany: 00:17:19

I think those are the services that you that you should offer.

Bethany: 00:17:23

I think that people get very caught up in that. What is the

Bethany: 00:17:27

quickest way to make a buck now instead of saying Where am I

Bethany: 00:17:33

going to take the time and energy to invest in my craft so

Bethany: 00:17:39

that I can make my craft better, even if it's not the end thing?

Bethany: 00:17:42

Now? Because everything has a season and everything circles

Bethany: 00:17:45

back. So all of these people that are abandoning audio

Bethany: 00:17:48

editing to do video editing only what happens when the video

Bethany: 00:17:54

party ends where all of those audio people are going to be

Bethany: 00:17:58

they're going to switch back. I just have the time nor the

Bethany: 00:18:02

energy to want to offer that as a service. And there are people

Bethany: 00:18:06

that do. And I'm like, Go queens, I'll refer you to that.

Carrie: 00:18:10

Right. And I'm ready to start building a list.

Bethany: 00:18:12

Though, like, let me give you my affiliate link. Yeah,

Bethany: 00:18:18

and enjoy them. But I think that you really have to tap into you

Bethany: 00:18:22

and what you're just one of geniuses and what you want to be

Bethany: 00:18:25

in this podcasting.

Carrie: 00:18:26

World does this as hog and and as businesses and other

Carrie: 00:18:34

media, like traditional media, starts to really realize the

Carrie: 00:18:39

value of not only the audio, but, you know, the long and short

Carrie: 00:18:43

form video. They are one team to come in and do what they do and

Carrie: 00:18:49

like put their money in, dominate the space, and use it

Carrie: 00:18:52

to make oodles and loads of money for themselves. You know,

Carrie: 00:18:56

on the flip side, there will be more kind of corporate network

Carrie: 00:19:01

production, house jobs opening up and and this kind of leads in

Carrie: 00:19:05

to that trend I was noticing, which was Hollywood companies

Carrie: 00:19:11

wanting to find parts, service providers. I've talked to a

Carrie: 00:19:17

couple people from a couple different companies in the past

Carrie: 00:19:21

couple of weeks. You know, they're like, Oh, we're looking

Carrie: 00:19:24

into this company. I'm like, I know that person and we're

Carrie: 00:19:27

looking into that company. I'm like, Oh, okay, they're great,

Carrie: 00:19:30

you know, kind of thing. And it's these larger it's it's

Carrie: 00:19:33

editing companies that do volume right at a lower rate, but

Carrie: 00:19:37

they're starting to offer more expanded services like the

Carrie: 00:19:41

dialogue editing, like the sound design, even, you know, writing,

Carrie: 00:19:47

right, putting together the content and being the ghost

Carrie: 00:19:51

producer. So I think that it's maybe like, I don't know what

Carrie: 00:19:58

that's going to be, but what I hear from Head to productions

Carrie: 00:20:03

and studio people is that the film and TV people do not want

Carrie: 00:20:09

to touch podcasting like the way they do editing and production

Carrie: 00:20:15

in TV and film from, you know, everything I've been told is

Carrie: 00:20:21

that you do it with the like executive producer or the writer,

Carrie: 00:20:25

you know, whoever is in charge of the story of that show, you

Carrie: 00:20:29

sit down with them and you do the actual editing, right? You

Carrie: 00:20:32

decide what to cut. And then when you do the sound design,

Carrie: 00:20:36

you sit down with them. You sit down with whoever is in charge

Carrie: 00:20:40

of making the content for the show and making those creative

Carrie: 00:20:44

decisions. And you do it together. And what Hollywood is

Carrie: 00:20:49

starting to discover is it can work when you are not in the

Carrie: 00:20:55

same room. And I think this is going to start to open up more

Carrie: 00:20:58

opportunities for people like us that come from the indie space,

Carrie: 00:21:04

largely because I don't know how many times. I mean, I started

Carrie: 00:21:08

teaching dialogue editing because I couldn't referring

Carrie: 00:21:11

buddy to do it because I didn't know how to do it. So I think

Carrie: 00:21:14

these jobs are going to start to open up more and more. And I

Carrie: 00:21:16

think I think what's going to end up happening in terms of

Carrie: 00:21:20

post-production production in general is I think that the way

Carrie: 00:21:25

we have done things is now going to filter out into other

Carrie: 00:21:29

industries and there is going to be a lot of merging in the

Carrie: 00:21:34

future as companies, as I don't know, businesses figure out that

Carrie: 00:21:40

we've been doing it really smartly and really efficiently

Carrie: 00:21:42

for a very long time and making money for ourselves and they

Carrie: 00:21:48

could actually do that. And I think that's what the pandemic

Carrie: 00:21:50

started to teach them, that this remote work thing, it actually

Carrie: 00:21:54

in a lot of situations, especially creative situations

Carrie: 00:21:57

like I can't be creative in an office, okay, it's not it's not

Carrie: 00:22:00

happening right? I need you all to go away.

Carrie: 00:22:04

So anyway, that is what I'm saying.

Bethany: 00:22:07

But I think that that's where what you call yourself in

Bethany: 00:22:11

the title, all that you hold is really important. And that's

Bethany: 00:22:14

what differentiates a producer versus a podcast manager. MM You

Bethany: 00:22:20

can manage your podcast that doesn't mean that you're a

Bethany: 00:22:22

producer, that doesn't mean that you do script writing, that

Bethany: 00:22:25

doesn't mean that you do dialogue content, that doesn't

Bethany: 00:22:28

mean that you are helping your client. And the creative process

Bethany: 00:22:32

of talking about which order their content should be going in.

Carrie: 00:22:36

Yeah, and I just want to like throw out one more, one

Carrie: 00:22:39

more title, and that is story editor, which is halfway between

Carrie: 00:22:44

in like regular podcast editor and producer, right? So you're

Carrie: 00:22:48

just helping edit the story in a way that makes sense and getting

Carrie: 00:22:53

to do that creative stuff.

Bethany: 00:22:54

And I think that because podcasting isn't

Bethany: 00:22:57

something that you can go to college and get a certification

Bethany: 00:23:00

or a degree, there is this opportunity to label yourself as

Bethany: 00:23:05

something that you're kind of not because you haven't had that

Bethany: 00:23:09

experience yet. So when I first started, I started as a podcast

Bethany: 00:23:13

manager and I did show notes for free that that was my first

Bethany: 00:23:17

client. That's how I got my first client. I didn't call

Bethany: 00:23:19

myself a producer. I started calling myself a producer when I

Bethany: 00:23:22

was walking my clients through the creative process of, What

Bethany: 00:23:27

are you talking about? What are you talking about? This? When I

Bethany: 00:23:30

started doing content editing and moving all of those

Bethany: 00:23:34

paragraphs around and doing the hokey pokey and making sure that

Bethany: 00:23:37

it all fit well, when I started inserting music and special

Bethany: 00:23:41

effects, that's when I transitioned myself into calling

Bethany: 00:23:45

myself a producer. But I don't think that the industry talks

Bethany: 00:23:48

enough about those titles and what all of that story editing,

Bethany: 00:23:53

all of that entailed.

Carrie: 00:23:55

Like there's language you use for the indie space,

Carrie: 00:23:58

right? And then there's language you use for all the other, like

Carrie: 00:24:02

the business to business and the network and the corporate and

Carrie: 00:24:06

the production houses. There's a different set of language. And I

Carrie: 00:24:09

think that that kind of I don't want to say like professional

Carrie: 00:24:14

because we are all professionals, corporate, corporate, you know,

Carrie: 00:24:19

I think like I think they're starting to get it.

Bethany: 00:24:22

And I think it also should be defined on your skill

Bethany: 00:24:25

set because there is a particular tool that everybody

Bethany: 00:24:30

raves about in regards to editing, and I'm not going to

Bethany: 00:24:34

name it, but it's not a duh and people adore it and they're like,

Bethany: 00:24:41

All you have to do is type in a remove filler words and all of

Bethany: 00:24:44

the filler words I removed. Are you listening to the audio?

Bethany: 00:24:47

Because it chops off the very next word. There are words that

Bethany: 00:24:53

don't even show.

Carrie: 00:24:54

Up.

Bethany: 00:24:54

On this platform. They're just I don't know where

Bethany: 00:24:57

they go. They going to. The strategy is.

Carrie: 00:24:59

Sometimes stuff just disappear. I can't.

Bryan: 00:25:01

Transcribe them. It's silence.

Bethany: 00:25:03

Yeah, it's just crickets.

Carrie: 00:25:04

And sometimes it, like, has gotten out of sync for me.

Carrie: 00:25:09

So, like, just makes things disappear, stuff it.

Bethany: 00:25:14

So I will periodically do content editing, like moving

Bethany: 00:25:19

words and paragraphs around in that tool.

Carrie: 00:25:22

That's the only thing I use it for.

Bethany: 00:25:24

And then I abort the mission. I click out of it and

Bethany: 00:25:27

that and I insert that audio into a it because I have more

Bethany: 00:25:31

control.

Carrie: 00:25:32

Mm hmm.

Bethany: 00:25:32

Yeah. Where I feel like I don't have control in that

Bethany: 00:25:35

tool. And I feel like a lot of people or it has become

Bethany: 00:25:40

commonplace now to say, I only work in this tool and I edit in

Bethany: 00:25:46

there and I get it and I do all of these great things, but the

Bethany: 00:25:50

sound quality remains something to be desired. Desired?

Carrie: 00:25:56

Yeah, yeah. And Sandra said it is not ready for prime

Carrie: 00:26:00

time and she's right. And I think it has specific use cases.

Carrie: 00:26:04

But again here they took an audio tool and zip video.

Bryan: 00:26:10

I would argue that they took a transcription tool and

Bryan: 00:26:12

tried to use it for audio and then pushed it to video.

Bethany: 00:26:15

I think that that is the downside of of I yeah,

Bethany: 00:26:18

because these tools are very easy to use versus mastering a

Bethany: 00:26:23

dog and because podcasting is becoming well is so popular and

Bethany: 00:26:29

people need assistance in it, it's something that you can

Bethany: 00:26:33

utilize quickly in charge well for it. So that's where I feel

Bethany: 00:26:38

like I is a little bit of a of a downfall and taking kind of the

Bethany: 00:26:42

easy way out for using some of these tools and mechanisms that

Bethany: 00:26:46

people are just bragging about. And that tool isn't cheap.

Carrie: 00:26:49

It's just as expensive as like Pro Tools or additions

Carrie: 00:26:54

or additions, right? It's actually I pay less for audition,

Carrie: 00:26:59

but I will say like, first of all, anybody who wants to like,

Carrie: 00:27:07

help build like if there's a developer out there wanting to

Carrie: 00:27:10

build the next competitor and wants to make a really good tool,

Carrie: 00:27:16

you know, come see us, right? We will give you because we

Carrie: 00:27:20

understand that this tool that like people may like, we will

Carrie: 00:27:25

still have customers. It'll be okay because nothing is going to

Carrie: 00:27:27

be that great, but it'll be if we can simplify our lives, make

Carrie: 00:27:32

our work faster, then I am all for it. If it can do

Carrie: 00:27:37

collaboration, all that stuff. So that's, that's what I want to

Carrie: 00:27:40

do. I just want it to assist me smartly, right? I don't need to

Carrie: 00:27:45

have every like I don't even know. They're like filler. Word

Carrie: 00:27:50

list is like a mile long. And I'm like, Nobody cares that much.

Carrie: 00:27:53

Like, okay,

Carrie: 00:27:56

so but that brings me to something Brian kind of

Carrie: 00:27:59

mentioned in places and that is chat chip.

Bryan: 00:28:05

T Yeah, so sorry, Steve, You're going to have to probably

Bryan: 00:28:09

I don't want to be responsible so whether you play the game,

Bryan: 00:28:12

that's up to you. But actually before I start talking about

Bryan: 00:28:15

A.I. and chat, I'm wondering for those of you that are watching,

Bryan: 00:28:19

like what are some of the trends that you're seeing also, because

Bryan: 00:28:23

those might be some things and the reason I and by extension

Bryan: 00:28:28

chat shows up for me is because I see two sides of this in the

Bryan: 00:28:34

I'll call it the news, right? There's the one side that says,

Bryan: 00:28:36

Hey, this is going to make everything so easy. And we've

Bryan: 00:28:39

already talked about how that's sort of true. It's sort of not.

Bryan: 00:28:43

And as a note, I have one client where there's very little that I

Bryan: 00:28:46

do for his show. It's just I'm involved in one part and one

Bryan: 00:28:49

part only. And one of the things I noticed is that this

Bryan: 00:28:54

particular client has started now taking a summary of the show

Bryan: 00:28:59

and just running it through chat to get his show notes and his

Bryan: 00:29:02

description and all that stuff. And there was one that I got

Bryan: 00:29:05

yesterday that it was I thinking, did you even read this like

Bryan: 00:29:10

sentence one and sentence three or the same sentence with

Bryan: 00:29:13

different words? And this absolutely does not capture the

Bryan: 00:29:17

tone of the episode. I think tools like captions and cast

Bryan: 00:29:22

magic, and some of those are trying really hard to capture

Bryan: 00:29:25

the tone of the show, to capture the tone of the episode. Whether

Bryan: 00:29:28

or not they nail it is maybe 5050, right? But they're trying

Bryan: 00:29:32

to do that. And I would say that there's the same kind of thing

Bryan: 00:29:35

going on. On the audio side, we talked about one tool where

Bryan: 00:29:38

there some editing stuff, but there are other tools trying to

Bryan: 00:29:41

essentially replace quality tools like Isotope Hour X or

Bryan: 00:29:48

ACON, Digital or cedar was at Cedar Wood or Cedar something or

Bryan: 00:29:52

other. These tools that are built to reduce reverb, fixed

Bryan: 00:29:56

background noise, all of those kinds of things. And what

Bryan: 00:29:58

they're doing is they're basically recreating it and

Bryan: 00:30:00

sometimes it works, and sometimes it's a train wreck.

Bryan: 00:30:04

It's just you don't know what you're going to get. And the

Bryan: 00:30:06

reality of these tools are that while they're probably free now,

Bryan: 00:30:10

some of them are they're probably not going to be free

Bryan: 00:30:12

forever because servers aren't free and bandwidth isn't free.

Bryan: 00:30:16

And unfortunately, free doesn't pay the bills. So like, I just

Bryan: 00:30:19

kind of throw that out there. But on the flip side, I'm

Bryan: 00:30:23

thinking about like the person who's going, is I going to take

Bryan: 00:30:26

my job and I'll go back to a Gary Vaynerchuk quote that I

Bryan: 00:30:30

heard in an interview a couple of days ago, maybe a week ago.

Bryan: 00:30:33

And it's a bit fear based, so I'm not super happy about it.

Bryan: 00:30:36

But this was the quote I'm not going to replace your job. A

Bryan: 00:30:39

human using A.I. is going to take your job. Now, that may or

Bryan: 00:30:45

may not be true, right? He likes to speak in absolutes. Probably

Bryan: 00:30:48

half of his predictions don't come true. Whatever. It doesn't

Bryan: 00:30:50

matter. But my thinking is how can I use A.I. tools to help

Bryan: 00:30:56

speed up my workflow? I think, Bethany, you talked about that.

Bryan: 00:30:59

So there are a few plug ins that I use that have an AI component,

Bryan: 00:31:03

one for IQ, one for compression, one for some other stuff. And so

Bryan: 00:31:07

I use those. I'm trying to get good with that.

Carrie: 00:31:09

I have to link those somewhere so I can look at them

Carrie: 00:31:12

later and maybe buy them.

Bryan: 00:31:14

Yeah, it's horrible. It's not inexpensive, but I like

Bryan: 00:31:18

their IQ. I like their compressor. Okay. And I like

Bryan: 00:31:20

their limiter. I don't use them on everything. Sometimes they're

Bryan: 00:31:24

not the right tool for the job. And that's the thing. If you

Bryan: 00:31:26

take your car to a mechanic's shop and he only has one wrench,

Bryan: 00:31:30

he's not fixing your car,

Bryan: 00:31:33

right. Unless you need a ten millimeter not replaced. If

Bryan: 00:31:38

that's the only thing he's got, he can't fix your job. So as

Bryan: 00:31:40

professionals, we need to have different tools. We need to know

Bryan: 00:31:43

what our tools can do. Well, sometimes it's an A.I. tool

Bryan: 00:31:46

that's maybe good at diagnostic in recommending something, which

Bryan: 00:31:49

is what I use the IQ for, because sometimes it can find

Bryan: 00:31:53

those resonances way faster than I could and fix them. Right? So

Bryan: 00:31:57

I would point that out. But then also just keep in mind you need

Bryan: 00:32:00

to be good with the tool. If you if you're watching this and you

Bryan: 00:32:03

read the description of the event, that was literally me

Bryan: 00:32:08

writing like five prompts in a row to chat, describing what

Bryan: 00:32:12

this episode was going to be about and then say, Give me a

Bryan: 00:32:14

description. Okay, well, can you make it better? Can you put it

Bryan: 00:32:17

in an ADR format, like doing all of that kind of stuff? And when

Bryan: 00:32:20

I got done, it was still a garbled mess.

Carrie: 00:32:22

Okay, I have to share something about that. Okay. And

Carrie: 00:32:27

this was like, just very quick. Your reactions to the posts you

Carrie: 00:32:35

made. Okay for this livestream. And I saw it was like five

Carrie: 00:32:41

paragraphs. It's like Random wrote this.

Carrie: 00:32:48

I was like, okay. And I skim to the bottom and I was like, Is

Carrie: 00:32:53

this the is this the livestream? And then I saw it was shipped

Carrie: 00:32:57

and I was like, Wow, that's terrible.

Carrie: 00:33:01

So I'm so sorry. I didn't I didn't actually read the

Carrie: 00:33:04

description to her to this.

Bryan: 00:33:06

That's okay. I didn't either. I got like halfway

Bryan: 00:33:09

through. I'm like, This is dumb. We might as well just make this

Bryan: 00:33:11

an object lesson.

Carrie: 00:33:13

Yeah, And that's why I rewrote or I wrote my own thing,

Carrie: 00:33:16

because usually I just copy Bryan What Bryan says.

Bethany: 00:33:19

The thing with it with chat shipped is I find my

Bethany: 00:33:25

clientele part of the package of of retaining us is we do their

Bethany: 00:33:30

copy, we write their podcast description, we write their show

Bethany: 00:33:33

notes. I can capture their voice because I have very different

Bethany: 00:33:37

clients. So I need to capture how they would share information

Bethany: 00:33:44

in a very different way for each client that I'm working on on

Bethany: 00:33:48

their podcast.

Carrie: 00:33:49

Chat.

Bethany: 00:33:49

She, I find, can't get the voice because it's a very

Bethany: 00:33:55

distinctive, individualized thing. And I absolutely agree

Bethany: 00:34:00

that AI is getting better faster, but I don't think that it will

Bethany: 00:34:05

get to the point where it is able to pick up the nuances of

Bethany: 00:34:09

that particular host and that is what the listeners gravitate to.

Bethany: 00:34:14

That is why the listeners are showing up. The copy is

Bethany: 00:34:18

attracting the listener, but the host and our hosts and or story

Bethany: 00:34:25

is what's keeping the listener engaged. So I guess it's great

Bethany: 00:34:29

to use a I in chat get or the other, you know, Happy Scribe or

Bethany: 00:34:34

Tammy or Cas magic or classic because there are so many in our

Bethany: 00:34:37

caps show to kind of give you a baseline, but you have to put in

Bethany: 00:34:43

the work and making it sound either like yourself or the

Bethany: 00:34:47

particular client that's paying you.

Bryan: 00:34:49

I would agree. And I think the other thing is to

Bryan: 00:34:52

build on what Jesse said I'm fine with I tools. I want to use

Bryan: 00:34:57

them to help with the process. But I mean, I spent an hour

Bryan: 00:35:02

yesterday rewriting a description that came from an AI

Bryan: 00:35:05

tool, right? I used the tool for what? It's good at transcribing

Bryan: 00:35:09

a lot of audio, summarizing it, and then giving me some ideas.

Bryan: 00:35:14

And then I said, Yeah, but no, no, not really. We're not going

Bryan: 00:35:18

to find a way to use the guest's name in every single paragraph.

Carrie: 00:35:22

Right? But it's doing that for SEO, right? And that

Carrie: 00:35:25

what it.

Bryan: 00:35:25

Might be, but I'm not going to do that because in the

Bryan: 00:35:28

end I want people to find it. People that are looking for

Bryan: 00:35:32

things because eventually the keyword stuffing gets caught,

Bryan: 00:35:35

Google tweaks the algorithm and unfortunately they have a lot

Bryan: 00:35:39

more engineers that make a lot more money. And a single AI tool

Bryan: 00:35:44

will never outsmart their ability to use their AI tools to

Bryan: 00:35:48

go, Yeah, no.

Carrie: 00:35:49

Yeah, no, it's wrong. It makes a good point. And also a

Carrie: 00:35:53

scary science fiction point. A.I. is learning from us,

Carrie: 00:35:57

testing every day too fast. I imagine that in one year

Carrie: 00:36:01

everything will be much more accurate, and I think she's

Carrie: 00:36:04

probably right. I think especially as more people adopt

Carrie: 00:36:09

the AI, the eye learns from more people and that growth becomes

Carrie: 00:36:13

exponential. And until there are robot overlords.

Bethany: 00:36:18

Can I just say something about that?

Carrie: 00:36:19

Yeah.

Bethany: 00:36:20

So I'm going to bring a little blackness into it because.

Bethany: 00:36:25

It is picking up from people who are blogging. It is picking up

Bethany: 00:36:30

from people who are writing content. The majority of the

Bethany: 00:36:33

people that are blogging and writing content are cis white

Bethany: 00:36:40

individuals. They're it's so it's really hard as a black

Bethany: 00:36:44

woman whose majority of clients are black women, to utilize a AI

Bethany: 00:36:52

and have it sound like AI sound or have it sound like my clients

Bethany: 00:36:57

because there isn't enough information out there for many

Bethany: 00:37:03

different reasons. Gatekeeping not allowing our voices to be

Bethany: 00:37:07

heard to extract how we would sound and utilize that in such a

Bethany: 00:37:14

way that's going benefit us. So I think that it's really

Bethany: 00:37:16

problematic if it's bringing things in from only one type of

Bethany: 00:37:22

demographic.

Carrie: 00:37:22

Well, you know, this point was made to Apple with

Carrie: 00:37:28

their facial recognition, and I didn't know that. Guess what?

Carrie: 00:37:34

They forgot to consider.

Bethany: 00:37:37

I'm a Detroiter all day, okay?

Carrie: 00:37:40

The people aren't all white. And so, like people with

Carrie: 00:37:45

darker skin, they couldn't unlock their phones with face

Carrie: 00:37:49

recognition because the camera didn't read them as people. And

Carrie: 00:37:53

you know, this oversight, which is probably the wrong freakin

Carrie: 00:37:58

word, but it's late, has existed in film forever and still exists

Carrie: 00:38:03

to this day. When I see watching movies and TVs and there's a

Carrie: 00:38:07

very dark person in in like the Shadow List where, you know, for

Carrie: 00:38:14

a white person, for a lighter skinned person, they're visible

Carrie: 00:38:17

at like clearly. And so that that is absolute technological

Carrie: 00:38:22

thing. And if anybody is interested, technically human is

Carrie: 00:38:28

a podcast that deals with ethics and technology. Yes. And it's

Carrie: 00:38:33

put out. I work for them. So full disclosure. But it's so

Carrie: 00:38:37

interesting.

Bethany: 00:38:38

And I think it's an important aspect that people who

Bethany: 00:38:41

aren't underrepresented, they don't have to be aware of it. It

Bethany: 00:38:45

doesn't have to be something that they think of regularly

Bethany: 00:38:48

because they're not impacted. Right. But I feel like people

Bethany: 00:38:53

who are underrepresented voices and that's why I love podcasting,

Bethany: 00:38:57

because I want to get so many underrepresented voices on this

Bethany: 00:39:01

platform. Because there Brian said earlier, there isn't a lot

Bethany: 00:39:04

of gatekeeping. We have an opportunity now to share our

Bethany: 00:39:08

experiences, to share our stories, and to share how we

Bethany: 00:39:12

walk through the world. And if a guy is moving at warp speed, but

Bethany: 00:39:19

they're not combining our stories or our experiences in

Bethany: 00:39:23

the information that they're pulling, they're taking our

Bethany: 00:39:26

options away. So that's another idea for A.I.. There's a lot of

Bethany: 00:39:31

others, but there's also those.

Carrie: 00:39:33

But I think there's a huge opportunity for us to

Carrie: 00:39:35

connect with the developers of these technologies because they

Carrie: 00:39:40

start out in the indie space too, and they rely on people like us

Carrie: 00:39:45

service providers to help them not only create a product that

Carrie: 00:39:52

we will love, but a product we will recommend to other people.

Carrie: 00:39:56

And through that, I mean, how many we've all seen it. I mean,

Carrie: 00:39:59

those of us who have been doing this for more than a few years

Carrie: 00:40:02

have all seen the companies that come in. They give us our dream

Carrie: 00:40:08

products and then change it to like consumer like, you know,

Carrie: 00:40:16

mass market product and take all those things that we love away.

Carrie: 00:40:21

And I just like somebody not to do that or people stop doing

Carrie: 00:40:25

that. But it happens all the time, right?

Bryan: 00:40:27

To that point, I think there is something else to be

Bryan: 00:40:29

aware of when you think about whether or not you want to use

Bryan: 00:40:31

A.I. and we've already touched on it, but to make it really

Bryan: 00:40:34

overt, A.I. tools don't create anything. They are not creative.

Bryan: 00:40:40

They are never smarter than the material they've been trained on.

Bryan: 00:40:43

So if they're trained on material that's created by a

Bryan: 00:40:46

particular segment of highly skilled people, they'll be very

Bryan: 00:40:50

good at that thing. If the training is by every single

Bryan: 00:40:54

person that uses the software and 95% of them don't know what

Bryan: 00:40:58

they're doing, it's only going to get better at doing the wrong

Bryan: 00:41:02

thing. More quickly. So when you choose your tools, be careful

Bryan: 00:41:05

about how they're trained, right? And then use them well and for

Bryan: 00:41:09

the benefit of the rest of us. Get better at your craft with

Bryan: 00:41:12

them so that we can all get better with you too and benefit

Bryan: 00:41:14

from you. But be aware it's not going to create something. It

Bryan: 00:41:19

might synthesize something, but it's only as smart as the stuff

Bryan: 00:41:23

that it's been trained on, and it will never create something

Bryan: 00:41:26

totally unique. Right? So if that's what you want, it's okay

Bryan: 00:41:31

to have an A.I. tool involved. But just remember, it's the

Bryan: 00:41:33

human that creative act within us as the editor or them as the

Bryan: 00:41:38

host or the writer that we have involved, or the graphic

Bryan: 00:41:40

designer or whatever. It's that choice. Full use of all of those

Bryan: 00:41:44

elements that creates the absolutely new thing that is

Bryan: 00:41:47

that voice that represents you.

Carrie: 00:41:49

I could like keep talking about this. I think this

Carrie: 00:41:52

is a fun topic. I think we need to do this again.

Bryan: 00:41:55

In about three years if we still have jobs.

Bethany: 00:41:57

Yeah. When we're all living together because we're

Bethany: 00:42:00

all homeless.

Carrie: 00:42:02

Actually, I think that would be a lot of fun.

Carrie: 00:42:06

Yeah, I think we need to do a part too. I think we need to get

Carrie: 00:42:10

like Daniel and Jennifer's voice in this. I would love to hear. I

Carrie: 00:42:15

mean, I love I love you, Bethany, but I'd love to hear from, like,

Carrie: 00:42:19

maybe some other people. No, I really I think this is like

Carrie: 00:42:23

there are a lot of really smart people that we know. We're very

Carrie: 00:42:27

fortunate. And I think it would be great to have on other, you

Carrie: 00:42:32

know, amazing, insightful people who really are. Because one of

Carrie: 00:42:37

the reasons I did have Bethany on, because her business is so

Carrie: 00:42:41

awesome, like, I love the way Bethany does business and I

Carrie: 00:42:45

house like I get to watch her grow and expand and test things

Carrie: 00:42:49

and try things. And so that and I ask her questions about

Carrie: 00:42:52

podcasting in like insight. And she always gives me such really

Carrie: 00:42:57

insightful answers. So I would like to bring on some more like

Carrie: 00:43:00

thought leaders like Bethany in our industry, because I think

Carrie: 00:43:03

that maybe some of us should start calling ourselves like,

Carrie: 00:43:06

you know, I think podcast editing. I think us is an

Carrie: 00:43:09

industry and it and I now stop here. I think we need to start

Carrie: 00:43:14

like taking agency over the narrative of podcasts, editing.

Carrie: 00:43:19

We shouldn't rely on the other trades. I know there are

Carrie: 00:43:23

newsletters and things, but I think we need to start coming

Carrie: 00:43:26

together a little bit more to have these conversations.

Bethany: 00:43:29

Carrie I would be really interested. I my one of

Bethany: 00:43:31

my friends, Akilah, she actually created an SEO tools. It's

Bethany: 00:43:36

called SEO Assist and you know, shameless plug for her just

Bethany: 00:43:39

because I love her. But I think it would be interesting to have

Bethany: 00:43:42

developers of tools on.

Carrie: 00:43:43

Yes, yes, yes.

Bethany: 00:43:48

Like, like people like her and like other people who

Bethany: 00:43:50

are creating these tools.

Carrie: 00:43:52

Yeah, we'll take that idea and run with it and then

Carrie: 00:43:54

we'll have some more thought leaders on. And I like to get

Carrie: 00:43:57

some really diverse group anyway and planning the show while

Carrie: 00:44:01

we're so. Yeah.

Bryan: 00:44:02

Thank you. Carrie is the new producer.

Carrie: 00:44:04

Yeah sorry. Next question. Do we want to do a

Carrie: 00:44:08

project question? Yeah.

Bryan: 00:44:09

Do we have time?

Carrie: 00:44:10

Yeah, we've got 6 minutes.

Bryan: 00:44:12

Bethany, I need you to pick a number from 1 to 5 four.

Bryan: 00:44:16

Oh, come on. That's a you picked an easy one.

Bethany: 00:44:19

It's a softball. Give me a softball. It's late.

Carrie: 00:44:21

Yeah.

Bryan: 00:44:22

This is the John Lee. Dubious question of the day,

Bryan: 00:44:24

apparently. What's the best piece of advice you've ever been

Bryan: 00:44:26

given?

Bethany: 00:44:28

It's so cliche, but trust your intuition and that

Bethany: 00:44:33

visceral feeling. It's. It's so cliche, but it's so true.

Bryan: 00:44:37

The best piece of advice I ever received was don't eat

Bryan: 00:44:40

the yellow snake.

Carrie: 00:44:41

I knew it.

Carrie: 00:44:44

It is good.

Bethany: 00:44:44

It could be lemon. It could be a lemon slushy. You

Bethany: 00:44:47

don't.

Bryan: 00:44:47

Know. You try it and let me know.

Carrie: 00:44:49

Is it worth finding out? So because this it actually this

Carrie: 00:44:52

kind of relates to my best piece of advice that I have ever

Carrie: 00:44:57

gotten. It's you get to decide. So you get to decide Yellowstone.

Carrie: 00:45:01

Are you willing to take the risk? I'm not. But you know, if you

Carrie: 00:45:05

are, that's cool.

Bryan: 00:45:07

I live in Tennessee. Hey, no, there's no way I'm touching

Bryan: 00:45:10

the hills now.

Bethany: 00:45:12

I want to go funny. Okay? The best advice that I saw

Bethany: 00:45:16

was I know that Ellen DeGeneres was canceled, but I love this

Bethany: 00:45:19

quote. And she was she said, be yourself unless you're a serial

Bethany: 00:45:22

killer. I think I have it on my Facebook as far as like the

Bethany: 00:45:26

quote.

Carrie: 00:45:26

All right. What do we do at this point?

Bryan: 00:45:29

I think we let people know what what they can do if

Bryan: 00:45:32

they want to be a guest on the show and join this bit of

Bryan: 00:45:35

craziness, which would be good to podcast editors. Mastermind

Bryan: 00:45:38

Dot com slash should be a guest that will redirect you to a

Bryan: 00:45:41

little form that you can fill out. And then we've actually got

Bryan: 00:45:44

it figured out to where we actually get notifications. If

Bryan: 00:45:47

you're interested in being on show or if you have a question

Bryan: 00:45:50

for us, if there's a topic you want us to cover. So like part

Bryan: 00:45:53

two of I and chat GPT or something like that, you can you

Bryan: 00:45:56

can do all of that there podcast editors mastermind dot com slash

Bryan: 00:45:59

be a guest at some point we probably need to give our names

Bryan: 00:46:02

and let people know who wasn't even going.

Carrie: 00:46:04

To introduce us.

Bryan: 00:46:06

Well I mean those that are joining us live now where

Bryan: 00:46:08

they can read so it's just horrible.

Carrie: 00:46:11

I'll just throw it in later.

Bryan: 00:46:12

Replay. We're sorry in advance.

Carrie: 00:46:14

Yeah. Yeah. Just intro us in in later. But I do want to

Carrie: 00:46:19

say just one one more thing. You should subscribe to our

Carrie: 00:46:23

newsletter to encourage me to purchase an upgraded

Carrie: 00:46:29

subscription because we're only a few away from hitting our cap.

Carrie: 00:46:33

But no, never going to do it unless I absolutely have to see

Carrie: 00:46:39

something like that.

Bryan: 00:46:41

Yeah. So if you've got extra email accounts, just make

Bryan: 00:46:44

Carrie push us over to something that's not the free service that

Bryan: 00:46:47

we've been using.

Carrie: 00:46:48

It's not free. It's not free. That's a horrible thing.

Carrie: 00:46:51

It's not free. We got to upgrade.

Bryan: 00:46:54

Yeah, we need to talk about that. We need to get on to

Bryan: 00:46:55

something free. Yeah, because there's no reason Carrie should

Bryan: 00:46:57

have to cover that cost. And then the rest of us think that

Bryan: 00:47:00

it's free.

Carrie: 00:47:00

Well. Oh, I don't really, Because I want to be able to do

Carrie: 00:47:03

the gifts and that.

Bryan: 00:47:06

All right, This is where therapy starts, and we end the

Bryan: 00:47:08

episode, right, Carrie?

Carrie: 00:47:10

Yes. It's been a long day. Thank you. Bethany Hawkins

Carrie: 00:47:13

of Crackers and Soup for joining us. You can find her at.

Bethany: 00:47:17

Crackers and Soup to Come.

Bryan: 00:47:19

I'm Brian Springer. I've been here all night so far. You

Bryan: 00:47:22

can find me at top Tier Radio.com and mostly on Facebook

Bryan: 00:47:25

because I'm old and all that stuff. Do you want me to do Who

Bryan: 00:47:29

wasn't here?

Carrie: 00:47:30

Yeah, I would love that.

Bryan: 00:47:31

Yeah. So unable to join us was Jennifer Longworth of

Bryan: 00:47:34

Bourbon Barrel podcasting at Bourbon Barrel podcasting dot

Bryan: 00:47:37

com and on all of the socials and Daniel Abendroth at Ross

Bryan: 00:47:41

Media Audio was also unable to join us tonight. And you can

Bryan: 00:47:45

find him on almost none of the socials. And above me on this

Bryan: 00:47:49

side is Harry Caulfield.

Carrie: 00:47:51

Eric you can find me at Kerry that land and also hiding

Carrie: 00:47:56

in my room just editing away. Oh my gosh do all the things

Carrie: 00:48:01

subscribe and stuff and we'll see you, you know, later. Thank

Carrie: 00:48:07

you so much for having me. You're welcome. Thank you,

Carrie: 00:48:10

Bethany. Bye. I think I reached my limit.

Carrie: 00:48:19

So how much is that?

Carrie: 00:48:28

So