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(E5) The social media expert Hel Reynolds
Episode 5 • 6th November 2023 • Leaders with impact • Lee Griffith
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Social media doesn’t always get the best rep and over the years I’ve spoken with many leaders who are hesitant to move online, for fear of getting caught up in the negativity, or thinking that what they’re working on is too important or serious to be condensed into a few hundred characters. But being visible and working on your online connection can be vital to the impact you make as a leader.

In this episode I am talking with all-round social media guru Hel Reynolds. Through her organisation Comms Creatives, Hel advises leaders and communications teams on how to overcome their fears about showing up online and building a social media presence that connects.

By the end of this discussion we aim to show you how social media can play a part in your own leadership approach, helping you to do it your own way.what exactly is social media.

We talk about:

  • the one-minute pitch for why leaders should be using social media
  • why leaders should ignore social media at their peril
  • how to avoid social media becoming all-consuming
  • bringing your personality online
  • knowing where to invest your time and effort online
  • why LinkedIn is a great place to start
  • navigating negative comments online
  • how to find your creative side
  • what you can learn from one MP's posts on TikTok
  • how social media fits as part of your leadership communications plan
  • what you can learn from leading CEOs using LinkedIN
  • the one bit of social media advice people should pay attention to

Resources and helpful links

Lee also referenced the Connected Leaders report by Brunswick (link above); in the report they found that 47% of staff will look at a CEO's social media account when considering joining a company. And 74% of employees expect leaders to use social media to communicate.

If you want to transform your leadership impact book a free consultation call with me

About leaders with impact

Want to know the secret of great leaders? In Leaders with impact we'll be exploring what makes an impactful leader; sharing stories of success and strategies that set them apart.

If you are ambitious for your organisation but are struggling to identify what you can do differently as a leader to deliver the right improvements, then hit subscribe to learn how you can get clear on your strategy, implement some self-leadership and connect with those you serve.

New episodes are released every fortnight.

About Hel

Hel Reynolds is an award-winning communications creativity expert, and she runs Comms Creatives with her sister, Lesley. Each year, she trains hundreds of communications professionals from brands like BBC Studios, Manchester Council and Macmillan Cancer Support to unleash their creativity, with engaging online courses that get people fighting their fears and growing their social media and creativity skills. She draws those cartoons you might see popping up all over your Linkedin and Twitter, and writes the very popular Big Yellow Newsletter, dropping comms inspiration into over 10,000 inboxes each week. Hel lives in Wales, and when people call her childish, she takes it as a compliment, & she is usually attached to a mug of coffee and a cat.

Get in touch

If you enjoyed the episode please leave a review on Apple podcasts (or your app of choice) and let me know what you thought on LinkedIn or instagram.

I’ll be back with the next episode in two weeks so in the meantime remember to sign up to my newsletter to get notified of new episodes, guest appearances and further insights on how to lead with impact.

Transcripts

Lee:

Social media doesn't always get the best rep.

2

:

And over the years, I've spoken with

many leaders who are hesitant to move

3

:

online for fear of getting caught

up in the negativity or thinking

4

:

that what they're working on is

too important or too serious to be

5

:

condensed into a few hundred characters.

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:

But being visible and working on

your online connection can be vital

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:

to the impact you make as leader.

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:

I'm Lee Griffith, a communication

strategist, executive coach, and

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:

all around champion of leaders who

shun the old school stereotypes.

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:

I'm here to help you get clear on your

strategy, implement some self-leadership

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:

and connect with those you serve

through your communications so that

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:

you can deliver improved organizational

performance, engagement, and reputation.

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:

Visit sundayskies.com to subscribe to

my newsletter and get notified when new

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:

episodes are released every fortnight.

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:

In this episode, I'm talking with

all around social media guru - yep,

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I've used that word - Hel Reynolds.

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Through her organization, comms creatives,

Hel advises leaders and communication

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:

teams on how to overcome their fears

about showing up online and building

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a social media presence that connects.

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:

By the end of this discussion, we aim

to show you how social media can play

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a part in your own leadership approach,

helping you to do it your own way.

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Enjoy.

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I'm delighted to welcome Hel Reynolds.

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Hello.

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How are you?

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Hel: I'm really good and absolutely

chuffed to be on your podcast.

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Lee: We are going to have a bit of a chat

about social media and how leaders and

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chief executives can leverage it for their

own communications and their own strategy.

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But I suppose it would be remiss if we

didn't start by explaining what social

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media is actually all about, because it

can cover a broad range of online tools

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and communities and stuff like that.

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So how do you define social media?

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Hel: Social media is one of those

things where people think they know

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it, but they don't necessarily think

about it in its simplest terms.

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It's got the word social in it.

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So it is a place for people

to build relationships.

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And from that point of view, I come

at it because my background is PR and

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comms, which is entirely a profession

around building relationships.

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So I got into social media really early

and saw this potential, not just for

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brands to market their stuff, but for

leaders to be able to really network

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on a massive level, like to be able to

reach people with their messages, but

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also to be able to connect with people

that they can't always see face to face.

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And social media.

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It's exactly, that's an opportunity

to communicate with people when

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you're not in the room with them.

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Lee: Yeah, I love that.

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And that's the thing.

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It can be so much broader than what

you might think of traditionally, the

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Facebooks Twitters, and we'll get into

some of that a bit later, I'm sure.

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But it is so much broader

than that, isn't it?

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Hel: Oh, yeah, and of course because

we're so used to traditional media,

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even, you know, like billboards as

well as TV news and all of that kind

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of stuff, that they came into social

media and dominated it and used, you

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know, these companies, like media

companies use social media the way that

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they've always used traditional media.

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They just broadcast out messages and take

no responsibility for the conversations

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that happen as a result of them and in

some ways that can swerve your view into

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thinking that it's just a slightly more

toxic version of what we used to have,

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but that it's so much more than that.

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It's just that they've got the big loud

voices, but there's also hugely inspiring

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and useful ways to use it as well.

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Lee: If someone's listening to this

and they've already got the view

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that social media isn't for them,

it might be because they don't feel

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like they're a very sociable person.

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They might be an introvert or they think

it's something that actually it's for a

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corporate communications team to manage

on their behalf, it's not their job.

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What would be your one minute

pitch to change their mind?

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Hel: before I get to the pitch,

what I will say is, I am a business

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owner, a sometime leader in the

corporate world, but, you know, I'm

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not very social in my personal life.

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Lee: Me neither.

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Hel: there's nothing I like better

than a good book with a cat on

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my lap, on my own, in silence.

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But, before I get to the

pitch, I'm cheating here, but

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like a preamble to the pitch.

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social media offers you this opportunity

to be social in your own way, at

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your own time, in a manageable way.

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So, if I'm going to a big conference,

often I'll find that massively tiring.

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you know, if you're there for a whole

day, from ten till six, and then you're

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having a few drinks at the bar with people

afterwards, my head will be mashed after

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that and I'm not necessarily at my best.

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Whereas with social media I can

decide well actually I'm going

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to just do it in a five minute

chunk here when I've got the time.

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I don't have to answer people

immediately so I can be more reflective

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and more thoughtful in my responses.

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And

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Lee: set your own boundaries.

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Hel: sets your own boundaries.

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So a lot of the barriers to using

social media, these kind of worries

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and these thinking that it's not for

me, often it's because you haven't

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kind of um, seen the potential for

it as actually being a useful tool,

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regardless of if you're an extrovert

it's brilliant if you're introvert

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it's brilliant, but let's do the pitch

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Lee: Yeah.

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Change my mind.

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Hel: Social media Is such a broad term

if you can find the right social media

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channel and develop a community of

people and perhaps employees who want

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to listen to you want to be able to

connect with you in a more human way,

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you can do this in a very planned way

you can get your personality across,

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authentically be yourself, and actually

get lots and lots of warmth back.

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So I think a lot of the time, if you're

in a leadership position you'll find

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people are slightly intimidated by you

and you can do all you like to be very

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approachable in person, but essentially,

if you are responsible for someone

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either keeping their job or not, or

you're responsible for huge budgets,

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people can find that difficult to talk

to you on a one to one level and some

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of the leaders that we've worked with

with social media have found that once

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they have really got across who they

are and had conversations with people,

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authentically, it really lifts up their

ability to be able to make more change.

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Lee: So are we saying that leaders

should ignore social media at their peril

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or do we think it's only really going

to work for a certain type of leader?

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Hel: No, I think leaders should

ignore social media at their peril.

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And why I say this is I'm not saying you

have to go out there and become a whole

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personal brand online, but you need to

understand why other leaders are using

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it and at least lurk, at least analyze

and understand it, because the last thing

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you want to do is just say, well, this

isn't relevant for me based on no data.

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And the best way for you to understand

what's going on there is just get in

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that search bar, go onto LinkedIn,

look at your peers, look at your

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heroes, see what they're saying there.

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Have a search in whatever, you know,

if there is a social media channel

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that you personally find interesting,

go there and just see what others are

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doing and see if that inspires you.

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Decide that it's not for you

once you've actually had a look.

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Lee: completely agree, I've had the battle

many a time with chief execs in my past

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life who just didn't want to do it at all.

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And actually it can be a bit addictive,

can't it, once you get going and you

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start to see the benefits and the

rewards and that sense of, it's just

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so much easier to communicate with a

broader range of people than it would

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be doing the stuff that I used to do

that took a lot of time and effort.

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Hel: Oh, absolutely.

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Yeah, and I think that's the thing.

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It's finding your voice there, sometimes

it's about finding the voices that

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you like to hear and sometimes about

finding your voice, but I know that I

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had all sorts of training sessions with

leaders where there'll be individuals

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in the group who just suddenly you

see the lightbulb go off because

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they had really turned away from it

and gone I don't have time for this.

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Perhaps you should make time for it

because it will give you way more impact

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than some other activity that you're

doing that actually doesn't work as well.

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Lee: Time is one of the big barriers

that people talk about a lot because

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they think that, I suppose that

there's so much, so many different

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tools and apps and they think they've

got to be everywhere at all times.

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And, and if you think about it in an

organization, often they'll have full

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time people working on digital stuff.

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And so they think, well, how,

how can I possibly be doing this?

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If I've got teams of people doing

it from, for my organization.

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So how do you make sure that it doesn't

become this all consuming thing?

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Hel: Like you said about setting

boundaries, it's about understanding

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what you want to get from it.

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So, have an idea about what you think

is a worthwhile amount of time to

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put in, and treat it like a project.

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You know, I'd always recommend that

anyone who's using social media for a

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personal brand, I'll call it that, but...

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For their own profile rather than

from, from a brand, you know,

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like a logo corporate account.

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I'd always recommend that you can

say, okay, well over this period of

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time, let's give it three months.

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I'm going to spend half an hour

a week just having a look and I'm

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going to think about what I want

to put across and not actually...

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post a thing.

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And just say, oh, I will review and

see what's going to happen after I've

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actually done this and, and dedicated a

small amount of time on a regular basis.

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I think that's the main thing.

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It's not, it's not something that

you sit down and do in two days.

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Lee: No,

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Hel: once you get into really high profile

leadership online, like for instance,

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Stephen Bartlett, he's an entrepreneur,

he's on the Dragon's Den, isn't he?

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And he's got his own podcast

and all of that kind of stuff.

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Huge operation based

around his personality.

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I've no doubt that he sits in a studio

and batch creates loads of content

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and puts it out on his channels and,

and has a whole team doing that.

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But actually some of the most interesting

leaders don't, they're a bit more ad

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hoc and they just, you know, if you've

got something worth talking about

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with your team, if you're talking

about things at conferences with

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whoever it is that you network with.

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You've got something to say on

social media, and you've just got

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to find a way to get that across.

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But I mean the time management thing is

you control it, it doesn't control you.

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Whatever you choose to

dedicate is, is enough.

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It's a start, and you might find that

you believe that you need to add more

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time in later on, but it's not this

unwieldy beast that people think it is.

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It's a place for you to control.

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Lee: Yeah, I suppose it's a bit of

that fear of the unknown, isn't it?

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And I think one of the, fear factors

come from this sense that social media

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can be a bit frivolous sometimes.

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And, Some leaders have said, Oh, I

don't want to dumb down what it is that

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we're doing or what I'm talking about

to, whether it's to fit a character

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limit or to attract the right people

on, on the channel they're going

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to use, or they think they've got

to share loads of personal stuff.

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You still hear this, I don't want to share

what I've had for lunch and I don't want

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to share what I've done in the evening

and I don't want to expose my family.

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What type of things can a senior leader

consider using social media for and I

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suppose to help them with the bigger

picture stuff, which is what they're

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really going to be interested in.

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Hel: So, I will describe the kind

of things, but the first thing to

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do before you look at the types

of things to consider sharing

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are what are you doing it for?

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We work with Welsh government and

they were way before the pandemic this

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was and, you know, we're working on

their social media strategy and we

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knew that in Wales, which is where

I'm based, our first minister, Mark

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Drakeford, he didn't have a high profile.

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He wasn't this big out there character

like Boris Johnson at the time the Prime

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Minister of the Central Government was.

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and the key there with thinking about

social media from his leadership

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point of view was like how can we

get across his true personality?

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We want people to warm to the fact that

he's a very intelligent, considered man.

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He's not all bluster and, and attention.

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And this is his strength?

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So how can we get that across?

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So the kind of content that you'll

see Mark Drakeford sharing is, is my

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kind of leadership that I really much

prefer, which is very supportive.

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So thanking the Welsh people for, putting

up Ukrainians and meeting the goal for

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how many people we could take in and

look after as a country, like thanking

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them, not saying, aren't we great as

a government, not saying my leadership

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resulted in this, but actually supporting

the people in the nation that he's serving

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and showing his true Welsh identity, which

is very important to the people here.

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And it was all about brand.

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So you can think about the kinds of

content that are around supporting others

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and highlighting the best work that

you believe in and showing your values.

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And those things should come easy.

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What you want to support, the photos

of the people that inspire you and

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make things happen, that kind of side.

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There's other things.

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I'm thinking of, oh, let

me think of her name now.

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She's the inventor of Spanx,

which for those of you who...

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That's

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Lee: Sarah Blakely.

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Yeah.

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Spanx wearers reunite.

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Hel: I've reached an age, by

the way, where I would rather

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look fat than wear Spanx.

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But anyway,

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but Sarah Blakely, invented

Spanx and it's really clear.

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Now I don't obviously know her strategy

for using social media, but she's really

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prominent on Instagram, which is a

space that let's say compared to Twitter

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and LinkedIn is much more about kind

of lifestyle, much more soft and less

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corporate, I suppose, but she's using that

platform to really bring up a whole new

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generation of women entrepreneurs so you

can see that there's a lot of inspiration.

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There's a lot of talking about the

issues that affect this group of people.

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She knows her audience She

knows what she wants to do.

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She wants to redress the

balance of this very white male,

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influx of, of new inventors.

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And therefore the kind of content she's

created is quite personal, works for

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the platform, works for her as a person.

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Often she'll have, I know it might seem

to some people a little bit frivolous, but

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she'll have things like a mug that has a

slogan on it, and that will be her photo.

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And with it, she will share a

very thoughtful article that will

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help people to understand the more

nuances of that, that phrase, and

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why she believes it in her own story.

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So it's a different way of coming at it.

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So you'll have different types

of content that's comfortable.

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Lee: Hmm.

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Hel: Again, I'm, I'm always

thinking of particular people that

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stand out for me, and Sir Peter

Wanless is one of my favorites.

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and he is the chief executive of

NSPCC, children's charity in the UK.

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And, if you look at his LinkedIn,

it's just everything that that

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person who's worried about being

frivolous, he's doing all those things

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they worry about and getting the

most tremendous amount of support.

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It's great.

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If you go into LinkedIn and look at

someone's profile, you can actually

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see all of the photos that they post.

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So, without even looking at

the content, I looked this

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morning, actually, at his photos.

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And this guy has got a

collection of shirts like

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you've never seen in your life.

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He does quite a lot of photographs of

himself in his various jazzy shirts.

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And even one of the posts that he put

up there, which was during one of the

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lockdowns, he said, I'm wearing one

of my cheerful shirts on calls with

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people, which I know a lot of people

will say, looks like I'm not taking

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this whole situation seriously enough.

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But actually for every person who thinks

that there's five or six people that it

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cheers up And I'm I'm needing this myself

to get through this time to give me the

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energy that I need to keep the charity

running during this difficult time.

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He's doing something that is

capturing people's attention.

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Sharing that photo of himself, he's

doing it to show a type of leader

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that says, yes, you can talk to me.

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Yes, I'm thinking about the way

that I present myself as a leader.

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and I'm openly having these conversations

with you that I might have with, I

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don't know, my assistant chief exec

who, who just came in the office.

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I, I might have just had this

conversation, I'm sharing

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it with a wider network.

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People need to hear this kind

of stuff from their leaders.

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That's the point of being a leader.

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They want to know the

way that you do things.

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They want to know your opinion and your

choices and your decisions and, and

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the real reasons for why you make them.

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Lee: From what you're saying, is

that personality coming across that's

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being put into decision making,

and the stories that show what the

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outcome is of decision making almost.

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Hel: Yeah, absolutely.

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And, and I think it's, a sign of

status that you can be comfortable

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being yourself on social media.

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And I'm not saying that you overshare.

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I'm not interested in what you've had

for dinner, unless there is something

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that, that is relating to your work,

you know, and sometimes there might be.

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Maybe you made a choice to, to eat vegan

today, because you're, you know, part of

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your mission as an organization is that

you want to be more Sustainable and you're

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trying that out in your personal life

and people will be interested in it then.

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Lee: Yeah.

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Hel: It doesn't have to be

vacuous if you're not vacuous.

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You're not gonna say anything

that anyone's forced you into.

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So just make sure that there is

a thoughtful reflection behind

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everything that you put in there

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Lee: The food, food one's an

interesting one, because, as you

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say, it doesn't need to be boring.

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It could be, look, this is what we're

serving up in the staff canteen and we've

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got a new range in or we've reduced the

prices because we understand the pressures

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of the cost of living at the moment.

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And therefore, I'm going along to eat.

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Or they're role modelling taking a break,

which can be really important signals.

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Hel: So important, and it's, it's really

funny as well because I'll go back,

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I've been making this argument for so

many years now because I've been doing

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social media training for a long time.

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But, you know, this whole thing

of Twitter's just people talking

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about their breakfast or whatever.

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I went and did a session with an

organization and it was like a big

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staff conference and we were talking

about social media for kind of staff

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advocacy and all that kind of stuff.

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And in that session someone

made that point Oh, I don't want

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to be sharing pictures of my

dinner and all of this stuff.

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So in the break, I did my morning session.

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We went down and it was

a great big hot buffet.

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and in the queue that very person

plus like a lot of them in the

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leadership team were in the queue

picking up bits and bobs and all

323

:

we were talking about was the food.

324

:

Like how nice it was, how it's good to

have a hot buffet and you don't like

325

:

beige food and all of this kind of stuff.

326

:

And I turned to them at the end

of that conversation and said this

327

:

is small talk that we're doing.

328

:

This links us together.

329

:

This allows us to bond as a group.

330

:

Why are you dismissing

it as being frivolous?

331

:

There's no one in the world who doesn't

eat and have an opinion on food.

332

:

So if it starts a conversation

with someone then you can turn

333

:

that small talk into big talk.

334

:

But that's how human beings in a social

setting actually behave, so own it, if

335

:

you've just had the most magnificent

biscuit with your cup of tea in a

336

:

meeting, you'd be surprised how that

stuff will start a conversation with

337

:

all sorts of other people who they're

not stupid, they just like biscuits.

338

:

Lee: yeah, you know, nothing beats

a bourbon, but I'm sure a lot of

339

:

people weighed into a debate on that.

340

:

Hel: That is the lowest, that

is so low, it's not even in the

341

:

Premier League of biscuits for god's

342

:

Lee: so you raised a really interesting

point when you were talking about the

343

:

chief exec of NSPCC and how he was

using LinkedIn, because I think LinkedIn

344

:

is one of those channels that people

can think, Oh, it's just where people

345

:

go to find a job and they post their

CV and it's really boring and you've

346

:

just demonstrated actually it's not,

you can bring your personality to it.

347

:

So how do you know which tools

you should be focusing on?

348

:

Because there's new ones cropping up

every day, existing ones changing.

349

:

Just recently we've gone, Twitter's gone.

350

:

Now we've got.

351

:

What's it called?

352

:

X.

353

:

We've got threads.

354

:

You know, there's always

something happening.

355

:

How do you know where and when it's

worth investing your time and effort?

356

:

Yeah.

357

:

Hel: I think you just need

to pick one that feels right.

358

:

I mean, I can give you the recommendation

that LinkedIn's never going to do you

359

:

any harm as a leader in any space.

360

:

So, I mean, essentially, if

you don't know, pick LinkedIn.

361

:

But you might well have some

curiosity about other platforms.

362

:

At the moment, I couldn't

talk about Twitter too much.

363

:

The artist formerly known as Twitter,

because it's changing so much but

364

:

again, if you're a leader, especially if

you're a leader, in, in a profit making

365

:

organization, just looking at Twitter

and Elon Musk is interesting just to see

366

:

how he's approaching his style of in this

public forum and changing the platform.

367

:

But it's changing so much that I think

Twitter used to be this kind of town

368

:

hall space, but on a global level.

369

:

And it may well remain that and

become more, it may completely

370

:

morph into something different,

and I presume Elon Musk has a plan.

371

:

We'll see.

372

:

So, you know, if you're interested

in that, pick that space to play

373

:

around with, it's an emerging space.

374

:

Threads might feel like an

unthreatening space because it's new.

375

:

There's not as much activity on there.

376

:

There aren't as many people using it.

377

:

So if you're really timid and just

feel like, Oh, I just want to dip

378

:

my toe in the water, then threads

might be a good place to pick.

379

:

I can advise on why you would pick certain

platforms, but essentially, you probably

380

:

will have an inkling about where you want

to go based on your own behavior, really.

381

:

And...

382

:

The safest, I suppose, balancing safeness

with impact, I would say LinkedIn

383

:

is a really great place to start.

384

:

And the key is, you're

not your comms team.

385

:

You don't have to be using

all of these platforms.

386

:

You don't have to regularly produce

a certain amount of content and

387

:

promoting your organization.

388

:

This is you networking and

building a community and

389

:

that is a different prospect.

390

:

So you can choose how you want to do it.

391

:

I'd recommend you pick a platform

and do it well, rather than

392

:

just try and be everywhere.

393

:

Lee: Yeah.

394

:

And I find some people will post

exactly the same thing on everywhere

395

:

to be everywhere, but then perhaps

don't really land anywhere because

396

:

they're not investing in, in engaging.

397

:

And that going back to your

first point, it is about the

398

:

social side of it, isn't it?

399

:

Hel: Hmm.

400

:

And this, I mean, this is the

recommendation I give to brands

401

:

all the time, as well as leaders.

402

:

If you're going there and you're

not engaging, you're missing out on

403

:

the point of being there completely.

404

:

Your reach will be so much bigger.

405

:

You know, the way that every one

of the platforms that you choose to

406

:

be on works is there's an algorithm

that will show your content to

407

:

an audience of a particular size.

408

:

It will make the audience

bigger if it sees that you're

409

:

engaging with your audience.

410

:

It will reward you for actually

being there and not just, you

411

:

know, spray and pray, we call it.

412

:

you know, just stick everything

out and that's my message done.

413

:

That's not true communication.

414

:

It's basically shouting

into an empty room.

415

:

So yeah, I think it's, it's about you

just going in there with a dedication to

416

:

talking to a particular audience about the

things that you care about as a leader.

417

:

Lee: Yeah, and one of the concerns that

you probably hear a lot, I certainly

418

:

hear a lot from people that I Talk to

and work with is this fear of if I'm

419

:

going to be having conversations with

people, how do I deal when it gets toxic?

420

:

And some channels are a

bit notorious for that.

421

:

It could be at one end of the scale that

the fear of someone trolling you, or it

422

:

could be particularly in a leadership

case, your employees, your clients,

423

:

or your customers who are perhaps

complaining about their experience or

424

:

challenging a decision that you've made.

425

:

And that can feel really

personally exposing, and quite

426

:

hard to navigate as a leader.

427

:

So what advice would you have

for people about responding in

428

:

those types of circumstance?

429

:

Hel: Well, I come at it from three ways.

430

:

I mean, the most practical, if this

is just happening now, advice is go

431

:

and speak to, to a comm specialist.

432

:

You know, if you've got a team there,

go and speak to them about how you deal

433

:

with it because they will be used to it

at all times, and they'll want to know

434

:

about it and support you through that.

435

:

And they will drop everything for that

kind of thing to help you with it.

436

:

so just get advice from someone who's,

who's a distance from it as well.

437

:

Although comms teams will

often feel very close to it.

438

:

I know this myself, anytime I've

had negativity or what might be

439

:

called trolling, it is upsetting.

440

:

We are human beings, we might be like

amazing creative leaders or whatever, but

441

:

we're still humans and it still hurts.

442

:

And you still want to go back to them

and tell them to, you know, do one.

443

:

so that step of talking to somebody else

and distancing yourself, not panicking.

444

:

That's the first thing I'd say to do

445

:

.

Remember as well that people do have a right on social media to

446

:

say what they want to everyone.

447

:

It doesn't mean that...

448

:

They're right.

449

:

It doesn't mean they're right.

450

:

You don't have to, take it too

seriously, but certainly address it.

451

:

It happens to all good leaders, and

that's one of the things to think about.

452

:

the other thing is, pick a space where

this is gonna be less likely to happen.

453

:

So, one of the reasons that LinkedIn

is such a good space, is that people

454

:

do see it as an employment platform

where they have their CV or they're

455

:

in employment and they are networking

and being seen by other professionals.

456

:

So that means that they are on better

behavior than an anonymous account

457

:

that they might have on Twitter

or on their Facebook where they're

458

:

there with their auntie Mary and

their uncle Bill talking about all

459

:

of those right wing things I see.

460

:

You feel like you're at a home cause

you're surrounded by all these people.

461

:

So there's no filter in what

people say and they behave as

462

:

though they're not in public.

463

:

Whereas LinkedIn, it'll

give you that safer space.

464

:

Just give yourself, especially if you're

new to it, give yourself an easier ride

465

:

by picking a place that's easier to be in.

466

:

So avoid Facebook if, if you're

of a nervy disposition on

467

:

this and avoid X and Twitter.

468

:

And definitely avoid YouTube.

469

:

So the third element of this, make it

so people don't want to criticize you

470

:

so much by having a space on social

media where you show the true you.

471

:

Often, that negativity comes

from people misunderstanding

472

:

your intentions as a leader.

473

:

They just see you as a suit, or

they just see you as someone who's

474

:

paid a lot for sitting around.

475

:

They don't understand your role.

476

:

And the only way to have

productive conversations is to

477

:

start productive conversations.

478

:

How can you expect people to know

what you do if you don't even

479

:

share that and demonstrate that you

are thinking about these issues?

480

:

Lee: I think that's really important.

481

:

Because the risk could be particularly

if you've got some program of work

482

:

or some changes you're making at work,

you can fall into corporate speak.

483

:

And if that, if that comes with

you into a social media space,

484

:

you're losing the storytelling and

that connection and people aren't

485

:

understanding the why behind it.

486

:

And this is your opportunity to really

personalize it and show what it means

487

:

and get rid of all that corporate speak.

488

:

Hel: Definitely.

489

:

And if you think again, I know I hate

talking about young people as one big

490

:

kind of melting pot of the same thing,

but in a post COVID era where people were

491

:

used to working from home and they began

to demand more from their employees in

492

:

terms of how they live their lives and how

that fits in around what they're doing.

493

:

If you are going to a place like

LinkedIn and talking about your

494

:

vision and your mission as a leader

and what you're trying to do, You

495

:

are attracting people to you who want

more than just money from their jobs.

496

:

They don't just want

what they used to want.

497

:

They are looking to be

inspired by someone.

498

:

you know, They want a leader.

499

:

You can't wait until they're employed

with you to know who you are.

500

:

They need to know who you are beforehand.

501

:

Lee: Yeah, yeah.

502

:

There's some crazy stat, which I don't

have at the top of my head, but I'll

503

:

put it in the show notes around the

percentage of people that will look for

504

:

a social media profile of a chief exec

before they consider applying for a job.

505

:

So it's absolutely, you,

you are a recruitment tool.

506

:

Hel: Yeah, absolutely.

507

:

I think it's such a lovely opportunity

to attract people to, to your

508

:

organization because they are behind you.

509

:

Because you're instantly gonna get

a more productive member of staff.

510

:

Because they joined

specifically because of you.

511

:

I can think of my old boss, I used

to work for a council many years ago.

512

:

and the chief exec of that council, I

see his posts all the time and he talks

513

:

about the incredible, scenery and...

514

:

the brilliant businesses in the

area, he's just constantly talking

515

:

about the place like he loves it.

516

:

And I know, because I used to work

for him, that he does love it.

517

:

But if I didn't know him, I could

see that there, I could see that

518

:

genuine, passion for what he does.

519

:

So I know that I would be able to have

a job and talk to him about things

520

:

in a way that we would share a common

value, and all of that kind of stuff.

521

:

Lee: Your kind of specialist area

is helping people to think really

522

:

creatively about how they communicate

and if anyone hasn't seen, they've

523

:

probably seen your cartoons online but

might not have made the connection.

524

:

But I think creativity is an area that

people can really struggle with because

525

:

they either don't see themselves as

a creative person, or for them that

526

:

creativity is, I've got to dance on

TikTok or similar, and they don't want

527

:

to degrade or embarrass themselves.

528

:

so how can leaders rethink what

creativity might mean in the

529

:

context of the work that they do?

530

:

Hel: Well, I think the creativity

for me, it has two angles of it.

531

:

There's like the innovation y version

of creativity, which is problem solving.

532

:

And for me, as a leader, you are a natural

problem solver, you're a strategist, and

533

:

these things go together hand in hand.

534

:

So it's okay, well, the

creative side of this is...

535

:

Who do I want to talk to?

536

:

What kind of things would

catch their attention?

537

:

How can I get them to

want to listen to more?

538

:

it's a key leadership skill, isn't it?

539

:

It's about being able to pull an audience

towards you and get them to follow you.

540

:

And, you know, social media

is all about attracting

541

:

followers, as is being a leader.

542

:

So I do think that naturally

you're going to have that skill.

543

:

It's about how do you make

people feel something.

544

:

So much that they want to follow you

and do what you're asking them to do.

545

:

So that content can be almost anything.

546

:

Like I'm thinking of Grant Shapps, the MP.

547

:

He's gone on to TikTok, and I have to

just get in here, grant Shapps is so far

548

:

from my own personal but what he's done

is so clever and creative because he's

549

:

gone, okay, I'm Grant Shapps and He's

in a party that, you know, has, has got

550

:

a reputation for being like the nasty

party, and being full of upper class

551

:

toffs, and all of that kind of stuff.

552

:

so he's gone to TikTok, and

he's presented himself as your

553

:

interesting dad type character.

554

:

So he's going on there, and he's

oh, here's my office, and he's

555

:

showing people around his office.

556

:

He's talking to people about here's

how you get into politics, if you're

557

:

interested it doesn't matter if you're

into Labour or Conservatives, here's

558

:

how you can start to get into it.

559

:

And I think it's really creative of

him to try and soften the image of

560

:

the party by being a representative,

by being someone who feels not

561

:

like your average politician.

562

:

He's talking to camera and it's clear that

he's not using a selfie stick or anything.

563

:

He's got it in his hand.

564

:

And that really adds to this

sense that it's, it's almost

565

:

a little bit spontaneous.

566

:

Oh, I've just had this thought, I want

to share it with my audience on TikTok.

567

:

That's so much more, effective than if it

was all staged and it was sat at his desk

568

:

and it had been filmed by the comms team.

569

:

Because that generation of people

and people on TikTok, they're

570

:

not, that stuff doesn't fly.

571

:

So the creativity is, how can I do what

I want to do in the style of the platform

572

:

that I'm on and I'd imagine he's got a

team behind him doing this, but it feels

573

:

like Grant Shapps is doing it himself.

574

:

And for me, that's the

creative side of it.

575

:

The other side of creativity is, I

suppose, being open to making mistakes.

576

:

understanding that flawed is the process.

577

:

the process of creativity is the best bit.

578

:

So you're going to go on there, you're

not going to get it right first time.

579

:

you sometimes will just look at

it and think, I'm not sure if

580

:

this works, but you try it anyway,

because you've got a mission.

581

:

Your mission is to reach that audience

and do that kind of stuff and some

582

:

people hate this, but we're a creative

communications training company.

583

:

And one of our mottos is

progress, not perfection.

584

:

And the other one is about learning.

585

:

if you're not going to look back on what

you did last year with embarrassment then

586

:

you haven't grown and you haven't learned

like you've got to do stuff that isn't

587

:

Perfect in order to make it brilliant

and we're all amateurs at the beginning

588

:

So just own it just be open about it.

589

:

People are really responsive to that.

590

:

Lee: And I think that perfectly sums

up an approach to leadership anyway,

591

:

you know, you're never striving for

perfection as a leader, or you shouldn't

592

:

be, you've got issues to deal with if

you are, because you are going to fail.

593

:

And there are going to be things that

you're going to learn from and it is

594

:

a learning curve, isn't And I think

the point you made about knowing who

595

:

you want to talk to, and then what are

they going to be interested to hear

596

:

from is, A really important perspective

to view how you approach social media

597

:

as a leader, because often leaders can

think, what do I need to tell people?

598

:

Not what do they want to hear?

599

:

And so that reframe, I think is

a really important in all your

600

:

communications, not just social

media, but, but absolutely on social.

601

:

Hel: that's it That's the approach

that marks it from a relationship

602

:

building exercise, away from being one

of those chuggers in the street just,

603

:

Hello, can I have you for a minute?

604

:

Would you like to donate

some money to my charity?

605

:

Well, no, not really.

606

:

I'm here shopping.

607

:

That's not what I came here for.

608

:

And that's what it can be like

sometimes when leaders will go onto

609

:

social media and just blurt out what

it is that they want people to do.

610

:

You're kind of like, well, thanks,

but I didn't come here for that.

611

:

So you need to be able to like a

friendship, find common interest,

612

:

have those conversations, and then

they will do anything with you.

613

:

Lee: So you've briefly touched on this

already, but if someone is listening and

614

:

now feels really inspired to get online,

you've talked about just pick one place

615

:

and try it, do a bit of lurking and

figure out how people are using it before

616

:

you tread your own feet in the water.

617

:

Is that a phrase?

618

:

I don't know.

619

:

Put your toe in the water.

620

:

That's it.

621

:

Oh my gosh.

622

:

My Leeisms from how to take the lead,

obviously just follow me everywhere.

623

:

but how do leaders start to consider

social media as part of a broader mix of

624

:

their communications toolkit for want of

a better word, you know, what might that

625

:

look like when they look at it across

a mix of things they should be doing

626

:

as a leader to communicate and connect.

627

:

Hel: I guess, decide what you're

going to do with it first.

628

:

So, there might be multiple things that

this ticks the box for, but I would say

629

:

one of the things is keeping in touch

with what people are thinking, so actually

630

:

understanding how people really feel

about issues, and that can be people

631

:

as in your people, the people that you

employ, that can be, your audience,

632

:

but, you know, just start thinking

and working out what it'll do for you.

633

:

The other thing is do I want to come

across as a particular type of person?

634

:

How will that benefit the brand overall?

635

:

and certainly do not approach

it as a marketing tool.

636

:

You are not there to just share stuff

that your comms team is, you know,

637

:

please do share what your comms team

is creating but that's not really

638

:

adding any value and your value as a

leader is, is what's in your brain.

639

:

So think about what you're

going to do with it.

640

:

Pick your channel.

641

:

Don't overthink it.

642

:

If you say I'm going to have a three

month project where I'm going to start

643

:

to explore this channel for this purpose.

644

:

The first two months might be me

actually just researching a bit.

645

:

So when I've got five minutes on my

coffee break, I'll just have a little

646

:

look there and start to think about it.

647

:

And then month three, I will

begin to create a bit of content.

648

:

That is all you need to get

going, but don't overthink it.

649

:

You can always adjust course.

650

:

You can always decide that isn't the

channel for me, or I need to talk about

651

:

different things, but you can't make that

decision until you've done something.

652

:

Think about it enough That you have

a vague plan of why you're doing

653

:

it and then just take some action

and adjust course from there.

654

:

It's just so easy to sit there and wait

until it's perfect and get exact results.

655

:

Social media, because it's made up of

social interactions and human beings,

656

:

you don't know what's gonna happen.

657

:

That's fine.

658

:

That's okay.

659

:

Just make some steps of going towards it.

660

:

And thinking back to the idea of,

Oh, I don't know what to post.

661

:

I don't want to overshare.

662

:

I'm not just going to talk about my

breakfast and that kind of stuff.

663

:

Just recognize...

664

:

That there's a reason that

people do share their breakfast.

665

:

I'm not saying that you have to, but

there's a study, which I can share

666

:

with you to put into the show notes,

from:

667

:

Kekst CNC, they studied four and a

half thousand CEOs across Germany, US,

668

:

UK, and Sweden, and by prominent, they

basically looked at the CEOs who were

669

:

using LinkedIn and getting the biggest

results, the biggest impact, the ones

670

:

that people look to as inspiration.

671

:

And there's so much good stuff to

take from that report, but the thing

672

:

that I'm thinking of, the lessons that

I learned from this is, Information

673

:

sharing does not get traction.

674

:

Lee: Hmm.

675

:

Hel: A hundred percent of the least

engaged posts were just simple reshares

676

:

of links to do with their organization.

677

:

So of all the, you know, the stuff

that doesn't work, if people want

678

:

information, they'll go to your

website or they'll go to Google.

679

:

You don't need to share that stuff.

680

:

You've got to add a personal insight.

681

:

So yeah, you can share the

information, but without your

682

:

personal insight, it's not adding any

value at all to people's networks.

683

:

personal stories and reflections were

very much the most engaged with content.

684

:

So those CEOs that were doing the best

were posting about personal topics, things

685

:

like work life balance and how you build

a career and all of that kind of stuff

686

:

that people are actually interested in.

687

:

And personal travel, and major global

events, but it was coming from the point

688

:

of view of their leadership position.

689

:

And the last tip that I will share

from that report, and save you a

690

:

read, 100% of the least engaged

posts were under 320 characters.

691

:

So basically, you never want to say

more than you need to, but don't be

692

:

afraid of a long, thoughtful post.

693

:

Especially, if you're using LinkedIn

particularly, and this is why it's useful.

694

:

I think a lot of the time we

think that people are stupid

695

:

and they've got no attention.

696

:

But if you're saying something worth

saying, you've got up to 1, 300

697

:

characters on LinkedIn, use it to

tell the story that you want to tell.

698

:

It's not a place for you to dumb down.

699

:

It's as dumb as you choose to be.

700

:

And if you choose to

be really intelligent.

701

:

Then that is a benefit.

702

:

Lee: Love that.

703

:

Thank you so much.

704

:

Final question.

705

:

what's your one piece of social

media advice that you wish more

706

:

people would pay attention to?

707

:

Hel: I think it's that if you are

talking about it, it's probably content.

708

:

People are like thinking that

they have to become some kind of

709

:

massive PR agency in their approach.

710

:

But actually usually it's the things

that you're chatting about if you go

711

:

into the office and you're all talking

about I don't know, Love Island,

712

:

there's probably a way that you can

make that, turn that conversation in

713

:

a work context into something that

people also want to talk to you about.

714

:

Love Island is not a good

example, but you know what I mean?

715

:

Like if, if you've been having a big

discussion about how you attract a

716

:

more diverse audience towards your

applications or whatever, these are

717

:

the things that work, everyone's

wants to join that conversation.

718

:

So it's just about keeping your, eyes open

and your ears open to the conversations

719

:

that you have, that you find interesting.

720

:

And then you don't have to worry about

being creative because you will express it

721

:

in a way that, that shows your interest.

722

:

Lee: Thank you so much

for your time today, Hel.

723

:

you've given us loads to think about.

724

:

I'll be going back over and

listening to this episode.

725

:

how can people get in touch with you

if they want to find out more the

726

:

comms creative work that you do, or

just to share their thanks with you

727

:

for the insights you've given us.

728

:

Hel: Oh, lovely.

729

:

Thanks.

730

:

Well, you can always go to commscreatives.

731

:

com, the website, if you

would like to work with us.

732

:

We do leadership, social media

training, and obviously your comms

733

:

team should come and join our academy.

734

:

and then find me on, I've

talked a lot about LinkedIn.

735

:

Come and find me on

LinkedIn, I'm Helen Reynolds.

736

:

I'm like proper grown up me on,

on LinkedIn, Mainly because I

737

:

got that account very early.

738

:

if you put Comms Creatives or

Hel Reynolds or Helen Reynolds in

739

:

wherever you want, I will reply.

740

:

I love a conversation.

741

:

Lee: Fab.

742

:

And we'll put all your links

in the show notes as well.

743

:

If anyone wants to connect

with you and to say, thank you.

744

:

Well, that's enough for today, I think,

and let you get on with your morning, but

745

:

thank you again so much for your time.

746

:

Hel: Thank you, I've loved

this conversation, great to see

747

:

Lee: if you enjoyed this episode,

please let me know on apple

748

:

podcasts or on your app of choice.

749

:

And drop me a line over on LinkedIn.

750

:

You can find me at Lee Griffith.

751

:

I'll be back with the next

episode in two weeks time.

752

:

So in the meantime, remember to sign up

to my newsletter at www.sundayskies.Com

753

:

to get notified of new episodes,

guest appearances, and further

754

:

insights on how to lead with impact.

755

:

Until next time.

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