Welcome to the Ward Hadaway Fastest 50 Podcast, where we sit down with entrepreneurs and business leaders who are rewriting the rules of growth in the UK and beyond.

Host Alistair McDonald is joined by co-host Jamie Gamble and Tom Lawson, Chief Executive of Opencast, to discuss scaling a people-first technology consultancy from the North East into a national business.

Since becoming Chief Executive in 2020, Tom has led Opencast through a period of rapid growth, expanding the business from around 80 people to more than 500 colleagues across the UK.

In this episode, he shares how culture, purpose and a strong focus on people have supported that growth, and why the North East continues to be an important base for building successful technology businesses.

If you’re building or leading growth, you’ll hear practical insight on:

1. How to scale a business while keeping culture, purpose and people at the centre
2. How to build the right team and leadership capability as a business grows
3. How to create clarity of purpose and stay focused as markets and priorities change
4. How external advisors, peer networks and support systems can help leaders manage growth
5. How to think about long term growth in a fast-moving technology market, including the impact of AI

To find out more about Ward Hadaway’s Fastest 50 and how we support growing businesses, visit www.wardhadaway.com

Connect with Alistair:

Website: www.wardhadaway.com/our-people/alistair-mcdonald

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/alistair-mcdonald-1a446a21/

Connect with Jamie:

Website: www.wardhadaway.com/our-people/jamie-gamble

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jamie-gamble-719a5416/

Connect with Tom:

Website: opencastsoftware.com

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/t0mlaws0n/

Alistair McDonald 0:08

Hello and welcome to the Fastest 50 podcast. I'm Alastair MacDonald and I'm joined today with my Co host, Jamie Gamble. Say hi.

Jamie Gamble 0:15

Hi. Hi.

Alistair McDonald 0:16

Hi, Jamie. Thanks.

Alistair McDonald 0:18

So together we're delighted to be welcoming our guest, Tom Lawson, who's the Chief Executive of Opencast.

Alistair McDonald 0:24

Alistair McDonald 0:49

Alistair McDonald 1:08

With years of experience in leading complex tech and business transformation programmes, Tom brings a passion for purpose driven growth, client impact and building high performing teams.

Alistair McDonald 1:20

He's also a Harvard Business School alumni.

Alistair McDonald 1:23

A former Princess Trust mentor, he was born and raised in Yorkshire, graduated from Durham University and is now settled in the North East.

Alistair McDonald 1:32

Tom, thank you very much for joining us and welcome to the show.

Tom Lawson 1:35

Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

Alistair McDonald 1:37

No, it's a pleasure. It's really. It's good to have you here.

Alistair McDonald 1:39

So if you don't mind, what I'd like to do is, is rewind to the start. So what first brought you into the world of tech and business, and how did that path lead you to becoming the chief exec of opencast?

Tom Lawson 1:52

Right. OK. History lesson.

Tom Lawson 1:53

So I, I've always probably been interested in tech and I'm probably of that generation who we started as outside, you know, the digital world and the tech world.

Tom Lawson 2:07

We've kind of grown up with that. I didn't actually study sort of computer science initially. So I didn't do that pursue that through school. But when I came to university in Durham, I studied undergraduate in geography.

Tom Lawson 2:21

But when I got to the end of that, I knew by that point that I wanted to pursue a career in the tech sector and I actually stayed and did an MSC. In effect, it was kind of a computer science conversion masters early and it was in the kind of dot com boom. It's called Internet systems and e-business.

Tom Lawson 2:38

So I did that for a year and then started as a graduate with BT, BT Centegra, which was their consulting and systems integration arm and did six years there and then moved to global consulting firm Cap Gemini where I spent nearly 10 years.

Tom Lawson 2:54

Thankfully both of these based out of the North East. So having studied at Durham, managed to stay in the region and then yeah, about 7 years ago met the Co founders of Opencast, Charlie Holt, Mike O'Brien and they were at a point where they were looking to scale the business, grow that.

Tom Lawson 3:12

And after, yeah, numerous kind of conversations about that brought me in to yeah, to work with them on developing the strategy for growth and then ten months later appointed me chief executive to then lead that over the last five years.

Alistair McDonald 3:27

We've had other tech businesses, numerous of them on the Fastest 50 and we've had Leighton Group on the podcast as well. Like I think if you're outside of the North of the NE, you might not necessarily perceive this to be a place that text businesses particularly can can do well. What do you think about the North and the North East in particular makes this a good place for Opencast to to be based?

Tom Lawson 3:50

Yeah, it's an interesting perception I think that there isn't sort of the thriving tech scene here that there actually is. There's a lot of key employers that have played a role in that really.

Tom Lawson 4:05

So you've got HMRC and DWP, both for long, long time have had their technical departments have been based up here.

Tom Lawson 4:13

Tom Lawson 4:26

You know, BT where I was at, even, you know, Capgemini, I've got present, there's numerous tech firms and then also tech related jobs.

Tom Lawson 4:33

So the, the kind of ecosystem is probably stronger than it might appear on the surface, or certainly if you're not close to it.

Tom Lawson 4:41

And I think, you know, there's been a lot done over the last, you know, decade to probably shine more of a light on that.

Tom Lawson 4:46

Things like Dynamo North East that brought together lots of those firms and then the kind of ecosystem really as well of the universities.

Tom Lawson 4:55

So you've got, you know, 5 brilliant universities that that have, you know, fantastic computer science departments and another relevant skills that are being kind of churned out of those.

Tom Lawson 5:06

So the region, it does have some really key ingredients, I think for for a tech cluster, particularly from that, that talent, talent development perspective.

Tom Lawson 5:19

I mean, what's also talked about, I don't kind of want to necessarily repeat ad nauseam, but you know, obviously the quality of life's really good cost of living is lower.

Tom Lawson 5:26

You know, you've got the city, the coast, all the, there's some great factors which can contribute to that.

Tom Lawson 5:31

But if you're really focusing on what's going on.

Tom Lawson 5:35

And so there is a, there is a tech talent ecosystem here.

Tom Lawson 5:38

I've not even talked about gaming, actually.

Tom Lawson 5:40

I mean, there's a, that's another sector a lot

Alistair McDonald 5:40

That stems out of Middleton and Teesside.

Tom Lawson 5:44

You, yeah.

Tom Lawson 5:44

And you and you've got a real.

Tom Lawson 5:46

So you've got a lot going on and there are lots of tech talent and skills in the region, which is, yeah, I think has helped it to thrive over a long, long period of time.

Tom Lawson 5:55

Really, this isn't a new, a new thing.

Alistair McDonald 5:57

I think the quality of life points a really good one because people with those tech skills are really sought after and they can go, it's basically wherever they want.

Alistair McDonald 6:04

So if you're competing on that front to be able to go surfing or, you know, go up to Edinburgh an hour and a half and all that kind of stuff, it really makes a difference.

Tom Lawson 6:11

Yeah.

Jamie Gamble 6:12

Do you think we need to shout out a bit more in the region then about how strong we are in it?

Jamie Gamble 6:16

And, and I'm assuming that whilst the wider population might not quite realise how strong we are, does the sort of the people in the sector who are looking for the job.

Jamie Gamble 6:25

So they appreciate that the North East is a, is a, is a really great place to come and there's lots of opportunities.

Tom Lawson 6:30

I think there is more that could be, could be done on that.

Tom Lawson 6:33

I mean, even the there's the recent sort of government and digital skills report, which seemed to admit most of the North, even Leeds wasn't properly covered in it, which is, you know, again.

Tom Lawson 6:45

So there is something getting lost in translation.

Tom Lawson 6:47

Yeah, there's obviously more still to do, but I think it, you know, it is we are getting cut through.

Tom Lawson 6:52

I mean, there's a recent company who sort of sprung up in the region, Neptune North. So they're a collaboration between Oliver Wyman and Rokos Capital.

Tom Lawson 7:01

They're bringing in really.

Tom Lawson 7:04

Yeah, really sort of educated people from all over the country and bringing them to the North East.

Tom Lawson 7:09

So not just from the universities here.

Tom Lawson 7:11

So it can be done.

Tom Lawson 7:13

I think it's there's got to be a commitment from firms in the sector to go and make that happen and make that noise and, and, and, and create that momentum.

Tom Lawson 7:22

But yeah, the ingredients are there to to do it.

Tom Lawson 7:25

And I think everyone's got their part to play in that.

Tom Lawson 7:27

And, you know, we see ourselves very much in that as well.

Tom Lawson 7:29

You know, we want to be a standard bearer for what firms can do in the North East and you know we're very proudly headquartered here even though we've become a national firm.

Alistair McDonald 7:40

That kind of leads quite well under the next question.

Alistair McDonald 7:42

So we talked in the intro about the fact that you've, you know, you've gone from a relatively low, low number of employees to up to 500.

Alistair McDonald 7:49

You've gone from 6 million turnover to 50 million.

Alistair McDonald 7:52

What do you think's led to that really, really rapid growth in turnover and, and headcount.

Tom Lawson 7:56

I mean, look, the big ingredients of, of Opencast, you know, before I was here, I was incredibly fortunate and it's part of what attracted me to the company to inherit a really strong culture and quality of what the, the, the organisation was doing.

Tom Lawson 8:12

You know, even at 80 people, it was, it was attractive to people to come to come and join and it was doing work and competing and or partnering with some, some of the big global firms, including Capgemini.

Tom Lawson 8:26

What we've been really focused on over that period.

Tom Lawson 8:29

Is one, really making sure we put people and the people experience right at the heart of that.

Tom Lawson 8:35

I think a lot of technology consulting firms sometimes lose sight of that.

Tom Lawson 8:41

They lose sight of the fact that the people are the product and how those people show up in a client environment is the thing that will differentiate you.

Tom Lawson 8:49

Because yeah, are we good at what we do?

Tom Lawson 8:51

Absolutely.

Tom Lawson 8:52

You have to be.

Tom Lawson 8:52

If you get all that wrong, there are serious consequences.

Tom Lawson 8:55

We work in, you know, big important systems that affect, you know, citizens across the, you know, the UK.

Tom Lawson 9:01

So the quality has got to be there.

Tom Lawson 9:04

But what's going to differentiate you is how do those people show up and work with the client, work with other partners to make that happen.

Tom Lawson 9:11

So we put looking after our people and helping them to show up in that best way possible right at the heart of the the journey.

Tom Lawson 9:20

So yeah, there's a huge amount of investment and probably compared to other competitive firms and we're always striving to improve that.

Tom Lawson 9:28

We don't always get it right and sometimes that that you can get those things wrong, but we aim to listen, we aim to learn and we aim to then respond and change what we do because we see that as central to the journey.

Tom Lawson 9:40

Purpose. I think then is the big kind of second factor in that, that we've again so we've gone on a journey to become a B Corp, which we've used as a way of really externally validating who we are in that regard.

Tom Lawson 9:53

So are we meeting all of those good governance standards, good environmental standards, ethical standards again people, the how we look after our people etcetera.

So, yeah, so that kind of purpose driven element to it again I think has been a huge factor and more and more actually over that that becoming ever more deliberate and more selective I suppose in making sure that the work that we do reflects that.

So you know, we see working with government as a big way of doing that.

You can have positive impact on millions of people through that work.

Likewise in healthcare, we can we can do the same.

And then there are a lot of really fantastic private sector organisations that have to be B Corps, but that that's one avenue you can go down, but orgs who are trying to make a difference and do things in the right way.

And it's organisations where we can see a real line of sight to positive impact.

And then that's aligning really nicely with how our the type of work our people want to do and and creates a yeah, really kind of positive experience overall.

And then, you know, the third is you can do both of those things, but you know, run the business with really good sound fundamentals and and make make money and create value.

We don't see these as conflicting priorities.

It can create more of a flywheel effect by get your people experience right, go and make an impact in the world.

Guess what?

If you're doing that really well, you're going to make money at the end of it.

And what we've done is linked that into that, then back into that whole people experience because everyone in the company gets a level of share options.

And so everyone is in franchise to help grow the business and then points in the future will benefit from the rewards of that from, you know, from equity growth.

So we want to show that that as a whole is a a business model that can be really successful.

And I think others do elements of that.

We're trying to stitch those elements together and prove that that's the way to create a really successful business.

And yeah, so far we've we've done well.

We've, you know, we've had a, you know, the market has been very tough for the last couple of years, but we've been resolute in sticking to those principles and we will continue to do so.

Are there things that you weren't doing before the growth because it like or is that something that you've sort of perfected and then you've seen the growth or because it does seem like there was a big spike.

I can almost see where that that change happened.

It was a great business before and I worked with Charlie and Mike from the beginning, but you could see that point at which it was.

If we're going to really grow into this business, we want to be, we need to put people front and centre and there's you've done so many great things on that which I've worked worked with you on.

It's been fantastic to see.

And I'm assuming you wouldn't have been able to get the number of people because you've got to grow so rapidly.

And I don't mean you probably could do have done that without having put those things in place as well.

Look, I think anyone you listen to on talking about business will talk.

There's there's good decisions and there's luck.

And you need both. A firm believer in that.

Some of those decisions, yeah, have been are things that existed but have been made more deliberate, more codified, more repeatable, executed better that can hopefully then change the course.

The luck element is that coincided with the period where the market heated up.

And so we rode that wave and have been able to, yeah, ride a wave of both the market demand going up.

But I think equally the peep, the expectations of the consultants and the people who might come and work for us aligned really nicely with, you know, they wanted to be part of a business that offered those sorts of things, genuine care for its people, a sense of purpose and, and direction and deeper, you know, meaning to the to the work.

You then have to keep that true as you scale.

That's the and I think and scaling that at pace whilst keeping all of that true is, is hard.

It's because you know, mistakes can be made.

You you get there's missteps in, in that there's there's mis hires, you know, there's people that may join you who don't enhance and amplify that that culture.

And that's sort of the challenge.

You know, that's the, the challenge day-to-day is how do you keep it all in balance and keep that all moving forward.

And that is where, you know, hiring a great team, building that and and hire, you know, and building the organisational structure all levels to support that is yeah, that's that again, is part of the challenge and how you keep that momentum.

So it is, you know, that it's about the founders retaining a, a really strong, you know, vision for the company, if you like, and, and being willing to stick with that as you go on a journey and then through some economic ups and downs.

And, and then it's having a team of people who are aligned around that and, and motivated to go and do that.

I think that nicely leads onto the sort of the next topic wanted to touch on because you started to talk there about sort of some of the challenge challenges.

And so growing our pace isn't easy.

It does have its challenges.

What's being the hardest part about growing and scaling so rapidly?

I think there's a really interesting part to that journey, which is what all the people in the business have to do in parallel.

So start use me as an example.

I've never been the chief exec before.

So I'm, I've been learning to become a chief exec as we've gone through this journey, but that's not against the static environment.

So you're not, you know, I'm not learning to be the chief exec of 100 person company.

And we're just going to stay at that level every year.

I'm the chief exec of a bigger company.

And that's true at all land levels of the org.

All our brilliant leaders in the business are all having to grow at pace even to sort of stand still.

And then if you like, we're trying to, you know, we're trying to grow the business aggressively.

So it's that I think is is one of the biggest challenges.

Everyone has to be reflecting on their own capabilities and yeah, leading themselves, if you like, through development and improvement to be able to lead the business successfully.

And, you know, we're really lucky to have some fantastic people, you know, both people who've been here for part of the journey and have now moved on and also the people that we've got currently who, you know, their commitment to that.

So incredible, you know, the and the sort of passion to to learn, to develop and then to put that into practise in, in what we're doing.

So I think that is one of the most powerful ingredients that we've got to keep.

It's hard because it's, you know, you, you are always stretching.

You know, the business is stretching.

You've got to be personally stretching.

But it's exciting and it's an amazing opportunity for all of us who are involved in it to see where that can take us in terms of our our careers.

I think excite…

No, well, the challenge is just changing all the time as you grow up together. There's this different…

I said to you in the lobby, you know, I feel like I've come back into almost a different business this year because we've had some really strong growth at the end of last year.

And even again, this has been we've had another step up in scale as we've come into this year, which we're only now really feeling, you know, as, as those people on board and, and, and get to work across our, our clients.

So it's always changing and then you know, and then you're always dealing with a changing market context at the same time.

So yes, lots to wrap your head around and, and to get stuck into.

I'm interested in exploring some challenges that might be common challenges that maybe other businesses could learn from in terms of your experience.

So what are the, some, some of the common challenges that can trip up businesses when scaling, which which you've had to face head on?

A big one that we get asked a lot about internally.

So we have, we have lots of ways that we try and get feedback and questions from our, our team and the, the culture question comes up a lot and particularly in relation to scaling.

So how are we going to keep the culture once we scale?

And we always talk about cultures not static anywhere, you know, whatever lens you look through at whatever scale it's evolving, I feel it's always about are we creating the best possible culture?

So it will evolve over time, but is it a really good culture that people want to be part of?

And I think like on many things, it's about being really deliberate about that.

So it's about understanding what that culture is.

So if you span back five years, 80 people kind of all knew what the culture was.

They didn't need it written down.

They could see it, feel it, participate in it and learn it that way.

We knew that as we were going to go through a journey of growth, you'd have to start codifying, if you like, more of that.

So we went through a process of almost distilling our well, distilling our behaviours that were observable in the company and felt in the company and turning that into a set of values.

So we sort of consulted on ourselves and we had a great team of Opencast people who, who, who pulled that together.

And we're kind of built layer upon layer, if you like, from that, what are the behavioural expectations, you know, core skills that people need the, you know, competency framework.

So there's a huge amount of work that has gone on to develop a, a really robust, yeah, people function.

But if you think within culture threaded through that, that will continue to be the the challenges, you know, where does that go next?

How do we evolve respond to both the market demand for our services and what might that do to culture?

But equally, where are the people?

Where are people's demands going?

How does, you know, we've got, we'll be into whatever the next sort of generation coming through is and their expectation of, of what work looks like and how they want to interact in, in that world.

So we've got, again, that's an ongoing, it can't be static because people aren't static people.

Society changes, society changes or expectations change.

You know, if you go back pre COVID, all of our, and this was fairly common in the tech consulting industry.

All of our people were on the client site five days a week In COVID, everyone was five days a week in the bedroom.

And then since COVID, we operate in a very, we operate in a very hybrid world, but it's very different for different people.

Some people want to be in and, and seeing people a lot.

Some people still want to be in there in the bedroom.

And again, that, that changes over time.

Even since Christmas, our, our office is really busy again this year.

We've not, there's no mandates to, to come in.

That's not the way we're working.

And but you just you can see it like expectations and needs change at different times and we just tried to be really responsive to all of that, understand it, incorporate what the right things into the business.

So culture and keeping that on track.

Interesting point you made there that, my roles business development, the board, how do we so you talked about the fact that you consulted on yourself and that's led to success.

Is that is that something you ever used when you're pitching to clients the fact that you've done that yourselves and had success?

We have referenced various aspects actually of what we, let's call it some more of those internal mechanics of how the how the business works and how we've set it up, that it does come out even in in some of the public sector procurements.

They want to know how you are being run at the back end.

So that story, whether it's the people story, the kind of culture, cultural fit story, others and crucially the social impact story, those are marked aspects of how you secure work.

And you know, some of these large scale contracts that we have.

So yeah, we we do share it in that context.

Some clients we have spoken to more directly about how we've done that and we've done maybe some small scale work in that regard.

You've had some great success in awards for a lot of what you've done on cultures also that that must help as well when you're speaking to these businesses and going out of tender because it there's that clear recognition of yeah, how good, how good an employee you are in that department.

Yeah, it's the IT is part of the key value, you know, value proposition that that the business has.

And sometimes I think, you know, when we were smaller, that was part of the story, but it was perhaps harder to convince people.

They had to very much experience it first as a client in order to then feel that value and then go right, I want more of that.

Can you come and do a different project and help us with something else?

It's perhaps easier now to evidence that over time and and that that is what you can expect.

But I still think the best way of people understanding it is starting to work with us, even at a small scale, seeing and feeling that it is different.

And then from there we're it's proof points and, and we can then grow and, and help them with with more things.

So we really do try and make it true.

We don't want a, a big gap between what we're saying and what we're doing.

And when we do have that.

And by the way, I recognise that at times on various issues, we will have that, but we try and catch that and do something about it.

And I think it's, that's a really important part of our story.

And we are not perfect.

I'm far from perfect as a, as a leader.

We're all, we've all got to learn, develop, grow, be, then apply that to the business and recognising that, yeah, not everything's perfect.

And we're and what's the next iteration of, of what, of what you know, good and and better can look like?

We've worked together in in various different areas for quite a number of years across this journey.

Just interested how, how you feel like we have as a firm, as a, as a large legal firm have helped you along that growth.

We do not as individuals have all the answers and all of the knowledge and the experience.

And as you go on, yeah, I've learned very rapidly as you go on this journey, you need people around you who've got more experience and or professional capability to do certain things.

So, you know, given the emphasis we have on people, and that's probably been one of the biggest facets of the Opencast Ward Hadaway relationship has been the support on people.

You know, there has been commercial support too, but the people side of it, that has been really important so that we understand the laws and, and relevant employment law and how we apply that and support when things go wrong.

You know, where.

And you know, we, we've got some things wrong and then we have employees who've got some things wrong and navigating that successfully and having the, the support has been, yeah, has been really beneficial.

So, yeah, I'll, I'll give you some credit.

Yeah, it's, it's been good.

And, and it's, you know, it's a relationship we have had for a number of years and, you know, we and we continue to have because it provides us with that, that backup.

Jamie Gamble: And just following that on in terms of a, a learning point for the businesses.

Yeah. How important is it to have the right not just legal partners, but other business partners when you're when you're going along a growth?

I think it's really, really important.

You know, we've tried across a whole range of dimensions.

So whether it's professional services types, you know, legal support, tax support, we've tried to make sure we've found partners that we again, that are culturally aligned.

So are we going to understand each of those as well as the materiality of what we do?

The "how" is really important so that that bleeds into the yeah, the whole the outcomes that are delivered by that.

We've extended that into, you know, people we work with on leadership development.

You know, we've we've worked with Julia Smith and her organisation who do both leadership stuff for us.

They do joiner surveys, leaver surveys and they've come on the journey with us over a long period of time.

Yeah, we really like building partnerships with organisations that persist for a long time because again, you then you know each other you and they can really enhance the, the overall sort of the quality of the outcomes and the experience of, of doing that.

So, yeah, I'd really encourage everyone to get the right professional support.

It's OK to to accept and know that you don't know you don't know everything and there are people better placed to help you get that, get that right.

I think that's really bugs what what I've noticed, but both with with, with you and with other clients that if the longer you work together and I understand your journey and what you're trying to do.

So then when you're saying, well, how would you approach this?

I'm looking at it from what I know you're trying to achieve and what your culture is and how you want to treat people it.

It does make a difference.

Correct. Yeah. And exactly on that and on that people from it's so important because different organisations will, yeah, perhaps use the the law to their advantage in in different ways.

And you know, you know, we have particular ways in which we want to do things and we want to try to do things.

And that's yeah.

So I think it is really important to build that that cultural understanding and, and go on that journey together.

So in terms of sort of whilst you've been at the helm of this, you know, extraordinary growth and, and huge success, like what have been the, the sort of most rewarding, all memorable moments for you as you've, you've gone through that?

And that can be sort of business related or personal or just, you know, what's, what's really stood out for you.

I'm going to be really cheeky.

There's, there's a lot, there's a lot of sorts of things I, I would say here, but it's firstly, this is a team sport.

So you know, I'm here representing Opencast and obviously talking about some of my experience, but the best moments are the ones where you know, what we achieve is achieved together.

And I say it all the time, a bid win, that's not one person.

There are no individual heroes.

That makes me that it is a huge effort across the business.

You know, we've touched on it.

Your people's stories got to be right.

Your culture story, your impact story, your technical story, all of that has to come together for us to win work.

And then into the delivery similar thing, it's the organisation has to come together.

So I think the highs and the and the big achievements, the really exciting bit for me is that it's the shared endeavour that has gone into that and how that system has come together to deliver that I think is a really exciting.

And so there's been some really great moments of that.

And we try to bring the team together at least a couple of times a year.

We have a summer music festival and company conference called Castonbury, which is a key fixture in the calendar.

We didn't do it last year because of how difficult the market being, but we'll be back to that this year.

And you know, when you see the, the sort of rich mixture of people that we have who've all contributed to that, I think that is always, I just, you know, that is one moment where I sort of stand back and go, wow, we, we have built something amazing here together.

And, and that that's really exciting.

On a much more personal level, I've got the opportunity as part of this to go to Harvard Business School, you know, was backed by the company.

Again, that was a team effort that was made.

You know, the company backed me.

Fantastic.

My team then covered for me while I disappeared off to Boston for two months.

My family supported me and that, you know, gave me an opportunity to go and learn, work with, you know, 200 business leaders from across the world.

And yeah, kind of re engage with learning at a really deep level for a period of time and hope that acted as a, you know, it's a sort of statement really as well of that's the important thing.

Like I'm, I, you know, as as chief exec, I still need to learn and develop.

So everyone in the business should be thinking about how they need to learn and develop and grow and we want to support that.

And there's lots of different ways that we, we try and try and do that.

So that was a big, big highlight for me.

And I feel very, very, very privileged to have had the opportunity to to go and do that.

But again, it was kind of testament to team and team ethos that put me in a position to be able to go and do that.

So yeah, very grateful for that.

You know, I've, I've never been in the position where I've been a chief exec for an organisation.

But from a distance, it looks like you're supposed to know all the answers.

And it looks like it can be quite a lonely place.

So I guess having that time to go off and refine and and retune what you know, as as a person doing that.

But, you know, I get, I guess there's not many people get that opportunity

No.

Whilst the business is growing.

And learn from from others.

Yeah, I agree.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, a big part of the learning there was the taught learning, but then there was the the learning that we did talking to each other and sharing experiences.

So I'd heard this saying about, you know, it being a lonely position.

And it is, it's called, it's a complex set of emotions.

I think you do go through as a chief executive.

It's an extremely privileged position.

And I feel that every day I'm lucky to have the job that I have because it's a chance to do things that are perhaps never, you know, growing up, I didn't have in my head that I would be a chief exec.

But the chance to do that and to do what we've talked about here is, you know, is one honestly one of the greatest privileges of my life.

But it has incredible highs and incredible lows.

There are times where you realise you are somewhat alone.

You know, if you're the, you've got people above looking, looking to you and to what you're going to do about things, you've got people below in the organisation, you peers that you work with, the, the clients, the partners.

And yeah, learning to process all of that and, and, and thrive in that environment has been a probably one of the biggest bits of the the learning journey.

And, and again, that's another area where getting external support is the best possible thing.

So I participate in a peer-to-peer networking group of fellow MDs and CEOs.

I, I jokingly call that my CEO therapy group and, and it, it, it really is, you know, we share challenges in a very open way and process those and, and think about how to move those forward.

And that, that's incredibly valuable.

You know, I've got, I've got a coach that I work with to help help me develop further that that's great.

I've got mentors that I've, you know, different people who I've worked with across my career who are, who are still turned to for advice and input.

And I think you've got to build that support network around you.

And then you know, my, my team, my team, part of that support network, the, the board, a part of that support network.

But you've got to dip into those different things at different times because sometimes you may be doing things which, yeah, can feel quite, quite lonely.

And decisions that have to be made where you are on your own a little bit, at least for a period until you can mobilise things around you.

That is one of the, the, again, one of the most of interesting facets I think about the role is how to create that support around you to, to deal with those moments where it, where it can be quite lonely.

I think it's really great that you've, you've made that comment about the fact that you have that peer-to-peer support and you have a coach, because I think people just think they've got it all together.

They know what they're doing.

Like I'd love to, I'd love to find the chief exec who has…

I mean, portraying that. And, and sometimes people think they've got to be that without realising, No, everybody still needs.

Honestly, I think that was one of the biggest learnings from the Harvard experience actually was realising, you know, I I jokingly said when I was there, you know, I was a baby CEO compared to some of the people who were there, people who were running multibillion dollar firms globally.

And what quickly appreciated was they had the same challenges, the same insecurities, the same hopes, fears.

And you realised actually the scales different, but the challenges aren't actually very different.

And so back to the earlier point about the shared learning came from the fact that, yeah, we might be in different industries at very different scales.

But actually at the nub of it, you were talking about similar challenges, which are invariably actually people.

And how whether it's yourself and the all the challenges of your own development and your own strengths, weaknesses, or the all the challenges of others and how you bring all of that together.

Last year, Opencast ranked third and our Fastest 50.

For people who are maybe listening or watching who aren't familiar with what the Fastest 50 is, it's not an awards ceremony.

It's not something where people can apply to be in our team looks at, you know, three years of yeah, it's been based on, on real fact.

So I guess that probably adds to the question, like what did that mean to you to, to rank third amongst, you know, all of the the businesses that are based in the North East in terms of your growth?

Yeah, it's a real source of pride for the, for the business.

I, I think I said earlier one, what when you're talking, you asked me about the kind of highlights.

And again, it's that recognition of the endeavour of the team and to then, yeah, be placed there and then and to be visible, I think in in that sense and to show that you can build really successful businesses headquartered in the region, in the North, you know, broadly, but and then for us specifically in the North East.

And I, and I think that's, that's a, it's a driving force for, you know, for Mike's now left the business, but for, you know, for Charlie, for myself, for the exact team, the Board.

And I think for a number of us, there's a there's a certain passion and drive to prove that you can build something of national significance at headquartered here is just another way of shining a light on that.

So we're yeah, we, we do, yeah.

We like it.

We like winning things.

And shows you do the right things.

Yeah, it's…

and you've been on there quite a few times as well.

It's been, you know, again, it, it on the journey.

These things have been fun.

You know, we've picked up, we got the fastest growing large company at the Northern Tech Awards, so more narrowly focused on the tech after that.

That felt like a big, a big moment because the first few your first couple of years, when we returned up to that awards, we were, you know, ranking much, much lower.

And you could see it was again, that external validation and recognition of the, the progress.

This is for the team and it's for it's a recognition of their effort to put us there.

So trying to bring together some of the things we've talked about.

We've quite a lot in terms of the things you've done and challenges.

A lot of our listeners are SME leaders or founders.

So what are the key bits of advice you would give to someone looking to scale their business?

I think, build, get the right team, get the right team around you.

The, you know, I didn't obviously found Opencast, but the founders recognised that they needed more beyond themselves in order to do that.

And that was the they've added overtime, fantastic people into the business.

I've joined, other people have joined and come on that journey.

You know, you've got to get the right people, I think around you and I think I definitely see that a lot with other firms where founders recognise that they don't necessarily have all of all of again, it's back to that.

No one has all of the answers, the skills, the capabilities on their own.

So build that an amazing team around you that will then propel you to that success, you know, build the sort of net, the support networks, you know, personally, professionally that can really help the business thrive.

And then I think you get that clarity on, you know, who, who you are, what you're about and really focus on executing that.

I think where we've succeeded best is where we've had, if you like the narrowest and more focused execution.

I think it's very easy then to start thinking, right, we'll take on more, do this, do that.

And actually I think we've gone through a process over the last couple of years through some tougher market conditions of again, refocusing on what is that core proposition and who are we and how we're going to go about doing that.

And I think that will propel us on to to further success in the future.

Be really clear on build a great team, be clear on where you're going and really, you know, relentlessly execute on that.

I think there's a whole of the podcast in there and a clear vision.

But yeah, that's a really important point is that like, no way, no way.

You're really trying to go.

No way you're really.

And it is hard because you get, it is easy for everyone to get distracted by other shiny things.

And I'm, yeah, I'm no exception to that.

And and we've all got to keep bringing ourselves back to the core, you know, the core purpose, the core mission, the core vision of the of the business.

And that's why you need a good team who are prepared to call you out.

And that say: "Tom, really, should we be distracted over there?"

And it happens at all layers.

You know, you've got, you know, a board that can happen in an exact team, in a wider leader, you know, senior leadership group.

Yeah, you need those checks and balances and you need people to be able to, to do that.

So, yeah, that's sort of psychological safety to, to, to push that and, and challenge it.

And, and look, some tension is good, some tension, some conflict, some the differences in opinion are important.

And then you've got to get aligned and you've got to crack on and, and, and deliver it.

You said for, for the other people who are maybe scaling their businesses.

One of the things that's really important is division and where you're going next.

So what's, what is the vision for, for Opencast and, and where are you going next?

I'm going to bring it back to actually purpose for us.

Our purpose as an organisation is making life better through the power of people and technology.

Are we making things better for the world?

You know, if you if you go really, really broad, but certainly the the UK and, and, and the society we exist in, and we'll do that through people and getting that right.

And then and using technology to to do that. Making sure that we stay consistent to that.

And, you know, we talked about the sort of people, purpose and and profit, the economics of the business, making sure that those that all stays sound is at the heart of it.

I mean, our ambition is to continue to scale.

You know, people do sometimes ask:

"So, you know, why, why do we need to continue to, you know, to grow?"

And. I think you've got to be pushing on as a business, it's really difficult to actually just stand still.

Go back.

And so you go back, I think you go back…

A vision to stay where we are. Yeah, it's quite hard to meet.

And also because growth it's not just about that's not just about the money.

You know that that is a byproduct of the growth.

But if we're growing, we can have more impact in in what we do.

We can have, offer people better opportunities.

A growing organisation allows the people within it to grow the market that we exist in.

There are some big global firms, there's some large global and or national firms.

And, and at the moment, you know, we're one of a small number in that you might call the sort of mid-bmarket where, yeah, we've got some space to to sort of operate and I think stand stand out.

So.

But we were an SME.

We've long since kind of now busted out of that territory and yeah, I think it's let's see how far we can take this.

And there there's lots of good examples of firms who've gone on that journey and and we believe we can do that in our way even maybe like the processes the way we do things will change.

But it that anchoring of the kind of people, the purpose of the organisation.

If we're, if we're able to be agile and respond to that, there's a really positive future that the business for the business and for it to continue to grow, to evolve and, and to true to those ideals.

I'm really, really interested in what you said around like purpose and people and tech fitting together.

How does AI fit into all of that?

It, look, it's something that, well, the world, I would say is wrestling with the tech sector likewise.

It will change the way we do things significantly.

So the sort of the productivity if you like and our ability to do things will be augmented as a minimum by AI and I think for us our sort of hypothesis and you'll see this is true of I think a lot of other tech firm.

There are things that we will be doing with AI and on ourselves.

There are things that we will be helping our our clients with and, and everyone to a degree is still learning about what the extent of that is, is going to be.

We still see there is a lot to do in terms of helping organisations adopt technology, transform their technology.

So AI interleaves throughout that story.

But I think at this stage for us, it doesn't prevent the need for an organisation like ours who can help other organisations navigate their challenges and, you know, do the things with technology that are going to help them serve their customers, their their citizens, etcetera.

So yeah, we're, yeah, very much in that adoption stage ourselves.

We help other organisations do things with it already.

And in a number of cases it's a hugely transformative technology for for businesses, for society.

That's going to be a hell of a ride I think over the next few years of seeing, seeing where that goes.

OK.

Well, as as we wrap up, is there anything that you would like to summarise in terms what you've learned today and what you've heard?

I think for me and I've been working with Opencast from when it was a handful of people with, with Mike and Charlie, I think it's, I think it's the that the journey you've been on and with the people focus, I think that's what has sort of set set you apart.

And I mean, that's really come out today in terms of the focus on culture, but the focus on people and purpose.

And that's why people want to work with you.

That's why they stay work with you.

That's why when you need to find another 100 people, which you've had, there are times you've you've found them because it clearly you've created that reputation.

I think.

Yeah, I would echo that.

And you know, we're doing a number of these podcasts with, with businesses that have been in the Fastest 50.

And there is a, there's a common theme throughout that the driving thing isn't we know we're getting a certain turnover or we're going to get to this point and we're going to exit.

And, you know, they don't seem to be the motivating factors.

It's the purpose, the people, the culture, getting them right.

And the other bits just seem to follow.

And obviously there's plans and strategy behind all of it.

But it's just interesting to hear that commonality across the other the businesses.

But I think the thing that stood out for me today is, is the openness and authenticity that you've brought to it in terms of that, you know, I don't know all the answers.

I'm going to go off and find it out and I trust my team to go and to do that.

So I think that really stands out for me.

And I've certainly really, really enjoyed listening to to the journey, both in terms of the Opencast side of things, but but our involvement in it and, and what you've contributed to it.

So that's been great.

So just as as we'll wrap up, if people want to know a bit more about Opencast or they want to get in touch with you, what's the best way for people to do that?

Big, big user of LinkedIn.

So yeah, please, if you'd like to connect, I'm always interested to, yeah, hear from people and sort of build, build that network and build that support, yeah, support system, etcetera.

So, yeah, I'd be keen to connect there.

Yeah, Yeah, we're on on the web, etcetera.

You can find out, find out more about us there.

But yeah, please, you know, talk to some of our people as well.

Great.

Well, thanks very much, Tom.

I've really enjoyed that.

Thanks.

Yeah.

Thank you both.