Facilitation Skills for Leaders: Transform Your Meetings and Presentations

Unlock the power of effective communication in meetings and presentations with expert facilitator and author Therese Miclot.

In this episode of Professional Speaking, host John Ball and Therese delve into the vital role of facilitation, likening it to a leavening agent that transforms interactions.

Gain insights into cultivating the right mindset, mastering active listening, and storytelling to drive engagement. Learn strategies for managing disruptions, fostering psychological safety, and forming effective group agreements. Therese also shares her experiences and tips for enhancing your facilitation technique.

Explore Therese's website at The Facilitation Advantage for more leadership resources and join our YouTube community for extra content. Enhance your speaking skills with our Speaker StrengthsFinder Quiz at presentinfluence.com. Connect with us via email or LinkedIn and don't forget to leave a 5-star review if you enjoyed this episode.

Mentioned in this episode: Transform your speaking engagements with our exclusive September Case Study group 'Known, Booked & Paid Blueprint'. Learn more at presentinfluence.com/kbpb.

Episode Timestamps

00:00 - Introduction to Effective Facilitation

01:18 - Welcoming Therese Miclot

01:49 - Defining Facilitation

04:14 - Common Facilitation Challenges

06:43 - The Importance of Mindset

11:28 - Creating Psychological Safety

18:15 - The Power of Storytelling

23:00 - Adding Color to Your Stories

24:27 - The Importance of Preparation in Storytelling

26:19 - Handling Disruptors in Facilitation

31:38 - Creating Effective Group Agreements

34:02 - Dealing with Resistant Participants

36:19 - The Power of Restating and Peer Feedback

39:30 - Memorable Facilitation Experiences

41:06 - The Facilitation Advantage Book

43:48 - Upcoming Episodes and Series

Keywords: facilitation skills, leadership, meetings, presentations, active listening, storytelling, psychological safety, group agreements, communication strategies

#FacilitationSkills #Leadership #EffectiveMeetings #Storytelling #Communication

Check out Therese's website for more information about leadership facilitation: https://www.thefacilitationadvantage.com/

Join us on YouTube for clips and additional content. Link below.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Effective Facilitation

01:18 Welcoming Therese Miclot

01:49 Defining Facilitation

04:14 Common Facilitation Challenges

06:43 The Importance of Mindset

11:28 Creating Psychological Safety

18:15 The Power of Storytelling

23:00 Adding Color to Your Stories

24:27 The Importance of Preparation in Storytelling

26:19 Handling Disruptors in Facilitation

31:38 Creating Effective Group Agreements

34:02 Dealing with Resistant Participants

36:19 The Power of Restating and Peer Feedback

39:30 Memorable Facilitation Experiences

41:06 The Facilitation Advantage Book

43:48 Upcoming Episodes and Series

Go to presentinfluence.com to take the Speaker StrengthsFinder Quiz and discover your greatest strengths as a speaker as well as where to focus for growth. For speaking enquiries or to connect with me, you can email [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn

You can find all our clips, episodes and more on the Present Influence YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@PresentInfluence

Thanks for listening, and please give the show a 5* review if you enjoyed it.

Mentioned in this episode:

Last Call For Founding KBPB Mebers

There's one last spot in the founding membership of The Known, Booked & Paid Blueprint. This is the only time you can get the program at 50% off. After that, it goes to the full program price, which is still great value, but it's not half-price value. Find out if it's the right fit for you at presentinfluence.com/kbpb

New PI mid-roll

John: 00:00:00

Have you ever sat through a meeting or presentation?

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That should have been great, but

left you drained or disengaged?

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Chances are, it wasn't the content,

it was the facilitation, which I

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think is probably one of the main

causes why so many of us have had Zoom

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fatigue has been down to facilitation.

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In this episode of Present Influence,

I'm joined by expert, facilitator,

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and author Therese Miclot.

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Someone who believes that facilitation

is like the baking soda in a cake.

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You only notice it when it's missing,

but everything falls flat without it.

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We are gonna be diving into things

like how to stop meetings from

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dragging out what to say when

someone hijacks the discussion.

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The subtle shift that instantly

increases psychological safety and how

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anyone, not just leaders, can become

the person who moves the room forward.

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As Therese says,

facilitation starts inside.

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The thoughts you bring into

the room will shape the room.

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So stick around because this

episode might just change how you

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show up in every conversation.

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Welcome to Present Influence the show

for professional communicators who

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want to impact, influence, and inspire

with their talks and presentations.

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my name's John Ball, keynote and

communication coach, and your

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guide on this journey to mastery

level communication skills.

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First of all, let me officially welcome

to Present Influence Therese Miclot.

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Welcome to the show.

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Therese Miclot: Thank you.

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I'm excited to be here, John.

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John: I'm delighted that you are here

because we are talking today about a topic

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that I don't think I really have covered.

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It may be mentioned on the

show before, but we certainly

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haven't covered it in any depth.

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We certainly can't think of the time

we ever had a whole show about it,

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which is one about facilitation, and

this is your area of expertise, right?

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Therese Miclot: is my passion.

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John: Great.

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And so I, I have my idea in my head

about what facilitation is, and I

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don't necessarily know that it's gonna

match up a hundred percent with yours.

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So for our listener and for me how

would you define facilitation in

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the terms of how you work with it?

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Therese Miclot: Okay, well,

I will introduce it this way.

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If you are a baker.

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And you want to follow

a recipe to bake a cake?

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And John, do you bake?

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John: I do actually.

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I love baking.

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Yeah.

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Therese Miclot: So, you follow

a recipe, let's say for a DLI

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Delicious chocolate cake, and one

of the ingredients is baking soda.

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You can make the cake.

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Without baking soda, you'll, it'll

actually come out and it will taste

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like a chocolate cake, but something

will be missing because baking soda

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is a leavening agents, as and it is

an important element of the recipe.

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And I think of facilitation like

leavening agents in that I think

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most of us experience meetings

every day, and some of them.

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Are great, where we're energized,

where flies, where we're

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getting a lot of things done.

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And then there's other meetings

in our day or presentations or

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sessions where it's just dragging

and it's just when will this be over?

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And couldn't this be an email?

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And sometimes you can't necessarily

put your finger on what's missing.

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Just like in the cake, it's

facilitation skills because

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John: Yeah.

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Therese Miclot: often like goes unnoticed.

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Until you, you really reflect on

like, why did that meeting, why

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would I always dread that meeting?

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Or why do I like, always look forward

to getting together with this group?

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So it's an, it's a leavening agent

in any interaction that you need.

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And I'm not talking about those for

professional facilitators or trainers.

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I'm talking about all of us

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John: Right.

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Therese Miclot: things

accomplished and done with others.

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John: I must admit, you are making

me think of the first time I tried

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baking and confused baking powder and

baking soda, and that was not good

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and not a mistake I ever made again.

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Therese Miclot: I don't,

they don't make it easy.

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It's, it's almost identical.

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So it's not you, John,

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John: anyway.

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Yeah.

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So I thought they were the, I thought

they were the same thing and they're

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not with, which again, maybe may, may

have some ideas about facilitation

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that are not quite accurate.

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But we probably all have to do some

level of facilitation at some point.

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Right.

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I mean, what are the areas

of facilitation that you most

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commonly work with people on?

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Therese Miclot: It's wherever they have to

show up and influence really effectively.

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So a lot of times I'm coaching

people who are technically brilliant.

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They know their craft, they know their

domain, and now they've been promoted

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into a role where they're expected to.

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Lead the organization or

present on, the latest feature

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functionality of a new, product.

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And they lean very heavily on their

subject matter expertise, but they're

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recognizing that they're losing

their audience, that it's hard to

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get people to talk or engage or they

leave the meeting feeling like that,

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that didn't go as well as I hoped.

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They don't know quite why.

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So that would be one of the main examples

of where I, I work with people who

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have to find themselves in a position

where they need to get a group of

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people to work effectively together.

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John: Yeah.

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And for someone like myself who's a

speaker and a coach and a podcaster

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facilitation does still come into

play in a number of areas like where

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I'm working with VAs or I have people

coming and helping me with various

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parts of my business or events.

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I still have to facilitate meetings.

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I used to do a lot of sales meetings for

personal development companies that I

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worked for and would be facilitating that.

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And I think I look back and I'm not

always sure that I did the very best

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job of that, but that was probably

where I have mostly encountered

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facilitation in my professional life.

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But I do also see like.

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That's for me delivering at least where

I've probably received it more has been

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when I worked with other companies and

been pulled into meetings there and

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seeing that doesn't always go well.

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And often a meeting will get

scheduled for an hour or an

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hour and a half or two hours.

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And like you say, you said there thinking

this is a very long meeting and are

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we really achieving anything here?

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So.

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There's some big mistakes that people

commonly make with facilitation, right?

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Therese Miclot: There are, and I start

with we've, the example you gave is

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like sometimes, like it's not quite

right or you didn't have the impact.

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And I think that sometimes we

think that facilitation means you,

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you should be a good presenter.

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Like you should have good

slides and good information.

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And I'd say that's not the starting point.

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I think that there's

different places to start.

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For example, part of your preparation

should be managing the voice in your head.

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So how often do we walk into meetings

and we are already saying to ourselves,

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we're not saying it out loud, like,

this is gonna be rough, or No one's

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gonna buy into this, or Don't screw

up, or, you better make this go well.

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Or, your boss is sitting in the

room, so don't say, anything

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that's going to upset her or him.

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that's often where I begin because

facilitation starts inside out.

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The fact of the matter is whatever

thoughts you have going into your

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weekly meeting or a sales pitch or

a conference where you might be a

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speaker or you've been asked to present

to the more senior level leaders,

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we often just start with getting the

slides right or the message right.

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And I think you have to

get your head right first

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John: Yeah.

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Therese Miclot: it

billboard on your forehead?

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So if you go into a meeting and you're

thinking to yourself, this is gonna

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go bad, or No one's gonna buy this, or

hope, they don't ask me any questions.

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It affects your emotions.

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So, John, you tell me

what might you be feeling?

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If you're thinking to

yourself, don't screw up.

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John: I'm probably more likely to think

the thing that my, my granddad and

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my dad taught me all through my life

of if in doubt, keep your mouth shut.

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Probably more likely to do that.

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Therese Miclot: Yeah, okay.

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So you're gonna have some emotions around,

might be anxious or worried or unsure.

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And the reality is our

thoughts drive our behaviors.

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So, the way it tends to show up when

I'm observing a lot of, people to give

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them feedback, they talks very fast.

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So when we get nervous,

that can be a tendency.

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So we don't ask any questions

because we don't want to risk

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the meeting going off track.

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When we have our agenda that we have

to cover and we have a lot of things

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to cover, we don't make eye contact.

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We will lower our own credibility by

saying something like, I, I coached

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someone this with this last week.

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She would say at the start of the

meeting, I'm still learning here.

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I've only been with the company for six

months, so I might have gotten it wrong.

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And automatically as a start to, what

she was gonna say lowers her credibility

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John: Yeah.

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Therese Miclot: nervous and

she was around other people who

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had more experience than her.

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John: Yeah.

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Therese Miclot: to be, we

could be our worst enemy.

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When it comes to how we show up,

when we're trying to influence

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or work with a group of people.

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And so that's the answer to the question.

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Where do I start?

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It's typically inside before

we start to work outside.

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John: I could be wrong here.

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Now I wanna check in with this with

you, but is this kind of relevant to

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not just the facilitator, but to the

people who are in the meeting as well?

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Like we all have some responsibility to a

degree for good facilitation and meetings.

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I.

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Therese Miclot: Yeah, well, I

always say that you can facilitate

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from any seat at the table.

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Sometimes we think, oh, well,

we're gonna sit back and someone's

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going to lead us in this meeting.

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Or they own the meeting.

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And I think that's such a missed

opportunity for all of us.

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So I'll give you an example.

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I was in a meeting where a leader was

speaking about something it was very

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clear that people were not on board.

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And and so this person just kept

talking and asked things like I think

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you can all agree we should do this.

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Right, right.

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It's very hard sometimes

to tell a leader no.

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And this wise person in a very

respectful way, it and said to the

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leader, I'm not sure that everyone

really is on that same page.

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Can we talk a bit about that?

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It

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John: Yeah.

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Therese Miclot: of slowing down that the

leader who was very kind of forceful and

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wanting to just move very quickly in the

meeting because that person who did not

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have authority but was in the meeting,

caught the behavior, caught and read the

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signals, people were dropping and had the

fortitude to say something that redirected

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that meeting in a really effective way.

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John: Which is good and I will say

from some of my past experiences.

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I haven't always felt the level

of psychological safety that I

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would want to have to express

myself in those kinds of meetings.

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And I do think often if that isn't there,

you may not find out what people really

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think until they're on their way out and

they've got nothing left to lose anymore.

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And even then they might still

want a good reference or whatever

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they still might not tell you.

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So I wonder.

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What advice you maybe have for people

who are facilitating, whether they are

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the leader of the meeting or whether

they're in the meeting for helping to

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develop that level of psychological safety

where people do feel they can speak up.

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Therese Miclot: Oh, that's

so wise and it's so true.

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Right?

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If we really wanna get a group of

people to engage and interact with you.

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You have to set the table for those

conditions, and one is that they won't

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be fearful of saying something that might

be contradictory to your point of view.

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So as a facilitator, I think

you can do a few things.

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One is and what I coach this

leader on later was how you ask

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a question will inform people of

whether or not it's safe to answer.

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for instance, he was just saying, I

think we can all agree that this is the

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right decision because we have to make

this decision by the end of the meeting.

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Right, right, right.

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That's not a phrase of a question

that's going to invite genuine response.

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John: Yeah.

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Therese Miclot: I coached him to do was

to add context before the question so

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people understand why you're asking the

question, what you might do with it.

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Where, what's the motive

behind your question?

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So, for instance, instead of, I

think we can all agree, right?

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What we worked on was to say, alright

we really don't have any more time

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to debate this conversation or this

decision, but I am genuinely interested

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in hearing everyone's point of view.

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So what I would like to hear, if we go

this way, are some of the implications?

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So previewing the question.

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another great one, and I worked with

someone else this other, the other day.

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His questions sounded like test questions.

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And so people, as adults we don't wanna

go back to feeling like we're in school

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and we better answer the question, right?

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Or we're gonna look bad in

front of our peers and in front

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of our teachers, so to speak.

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Because his questions had this frame of.

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Right or wrong.

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So what we worked to create some

psychological safety is to con,

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give context to the question.

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And it was simple.

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It was, there's no right

or wrong to this question.

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just looking for everyone's opinion

on how they're thinking about this.

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John: Right.

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Therese Miclot: then

he asked the question.

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now people aren't wondering, where are

you trying to go with that question?

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are you asking me that?

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By the way, I think we do it all the time,

every day without, without bad intention.

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How many times, John, do you get a

text that says do you have a second?

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Do you have a second?

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What do you think when you get just the,

just that, those few words in a text.

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Do you have a second?

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John: I generally think you could

have just told me what you want and

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saved us both some time, but yeah.

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Therese Miclot: Right.

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And I would think if it's a client of

yours or someone that view as having

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high status, you might, start to Okay.

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Wonder what that was.

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Did I send something by mistake?

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Did I,

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John: Oh, I've had that experience.

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Yeah.

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Therese Miclot: missed?

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We do that to each other all the time.

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And

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John: Yeah.

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Therese Miclot: bad intention.

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And a simple way to make it

safe or easier for people is

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to add context to the question.

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So it might be yeah I wanna

introduce you to, my leader.

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Do you have a second bet?

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Your answer would be one thing, or maybe

it's something hilarious just happened.

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Do you have a second?

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Well, you might answer that differently

because I don't have a second.

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Maybe later,

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John: right.

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Therese Miclot: so we, that's one very

quick tip I would offer to your listeners,

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if you wanna create more likelihood

for people to genuinely answer your

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question, just give context, preview

the question with why are you asking it?

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John: Right, because the human

natural human response is to

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catastrophize an unknown, right?

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To think what's that or

what could this be about?

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And I do feel in to what you say

there, there are people who must.

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Some, if they say often a different

version of that I've seen that I

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really hate is we need to talk.

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And in fact, that's one that definitely

triggers people into thinking, I must

291

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have done something I must have messed up.

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And and starting to think the worst.

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And then sometimes you get onto speaking

to them and it's nothing major at all.

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But I was like, well those words

definitely do indicate there

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might be something wrong, right.

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Therese Miclot: oh, I'll tell you, I'll

tell you where I still feel guilty.

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And this happened many years ago.

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I was working in a HR

function and I was busy.

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I was busy running from

meeting to meeting.

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And I was walking by the desk

of one of my direct reports.

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And on my way back to my office, I

said, can you see me in my office?

302

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So she comes.

303

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Remember, I'm in hr.

304

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She comes into my office.

305

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Blood drained from her face and

she says, are you gonna fire me?

306

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I said, what?

307

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Why would you think that?

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She was like, well, when you

said, can you come to my office,

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I thought it must be that.

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said, oh no.

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I wanted to show you, a, I, I

dunno, something that I didn't

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have on my computer at the time.

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So it's a, I think it's a symptom

of how fast we're moving these days.

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Especially the more you work with

your colleagues, the more it's easy

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for you to jump to the conclusion

that they know where I'm coming from,

316

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that they know what I mean by this.

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the reality is that's not the case

because everybody has that self-talk.

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filling in the blank if

you don't them context.

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John: Hundred percent.

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I love that.

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I love that you brought that out.

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'cause I think that's something that most

people are going to be able to relate to.

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Either having done it or

being on the receiving end.

324

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Or both.

325

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Or both.

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Therese Miclot: Easy, John to fix.

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John: That's fair.

328

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Pretty much everyone Right?

329

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I know's the, my first thought this

morning was like, after having a whole

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day without power yesterday, I'm a, I'm

now a day behind on an already busy week.

331

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And like yeah, it doesn't help anything.

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So mindset is the first element.

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That we need to wrap our heads

around and work on improving for

334

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ourselves for good facilitation.

335

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What else is gonna be important

to think about or focus on?

336

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Therese Miclot: Sure.

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In, in the book that I co-wrote,

the Facilitation Advantage, we

338

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talk about it in three main areas.

339

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So mindset is one, one

we just talked about.

340

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Content is another area, and that's

about not just having subject matter

341

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expertise, but how you convey it.

342

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To different audiences so that

it's well received and understood.

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And then the third component is process.

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How do you help groups move

from point A to point B?

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if you're in a selling situation, how

do I get someone to understand and

346

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connect their problem to my solution?

347

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So, I'll give you a few and

then we can play around with

348

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John: Yeah.

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Love that.

350

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Therese Miclot: intriguing at the moment.

351

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So there's things like a one under

you skill that is so paramount

352

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in facilitation is listening.

353

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Listening.

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I think oftentimes we think, oh, well

again, we better have our script.

355

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We better have our notes.

356

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We better know what to say.

357

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And we lean very heavily on talking.

358

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listening is as essential, they

sometimes more essential than having

359

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the perfectly scripted response.

360

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So there's listening, storytelling.

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So I don't know about you, John, but some

days I, it feels like endless meetings

362

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sometimes I'm, I have the misfortune of

needing to have a meeting with someone.

363

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It's 3:00 PM.

364

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exhausted, right?

365

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We all are after, endless day of

meetings and I need to influence

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their thinking on something.

367

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I have a choice.

368

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I could just give facts.

369

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I could give details.

370

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I could offer research

or I have another choice.

371

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I could tell a story.

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And storytelling is another really

useful tool and skill for all

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of us when we want to stand out.

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the reality is, story is meaning.

375

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It's how as humans, we make

meaning and it's sticky.

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So if you wanna be memorable at that

three o'clock meeting and not just

377

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blend in with all the other meanings

that you had, then it's worth getting

378

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better at how you craft a story that

will be meaningful to your audience.

379

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So storytelling

380

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John: are there, sorry.

381

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Are there particular kinds of

stories that you're talking about

382

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here or any kind of storytelling I.

383

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Therese Miclot: Yeah, and

actually there's a lot of variety

384

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of the story you can tell.

385

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You can tell stories that are

examples of mistakes to avoid.

386

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can tell your story, your personal story.

387

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You can tell the story of another

person, and so repeat their story.

388

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You can.

389

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Use metaphor or analogy, which I work

with a lot of, again, very technical

390

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people who have to translate very complex

things easily understood concepts,

391

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especially when they're presenting

to senior leaders who don't have an

392

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engineering degree or don't have the

same right level of sophistication

393

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with the whatever technology.

394

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we work a lot on.

395

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to frame it as a metaphor,

because that becomes more,

396

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much more instantly understood.

397

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Understood.

398

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Because we can relate to it.

399

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So,

400

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John: I, I saw a really good example

of that today and I was watching a

401

00:21:01,069 --> 00:21:03,459

clip from John Stewart's Daily Show.

402

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And he was using the metaphor

analogy of WWE wrestling to explain

403

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things that were going on with the

government, and it was very clever.

404

00:21:13,769 --> 00:21:14,579

It really worked.

405

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And I think so it does, sometimes

it does just help people to stuff

406

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that sounds complicated or boring

to be able to make those connections

407

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and see things that, all right.

408

00:21:22,469 --> 00:21:25,439

Yeah, it's a bit, maybe not exactly

like that, but it's a bit like that.

409

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So that helps me to comprehend it.

410

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I love that.

411

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Therese Miclot: Exactly.

412

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Well, and the fact that you remembered it

413

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John: Yes.

414

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Therese Miclot: me this now is

to the point of it's sticky.

415

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It's it helps us make

meaning of complex things.

416

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John: Absolutely.

417

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So we can all be better, a bit better at

storytelling and I know that sometimes

418

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there are stories that perhaps get a bit

trite and overused, so I think we should

419

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probably avoid try and avoid those.

420

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But yeah, I do think personal

stories or there should be

421

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pertinent at the very least to make

sure you have the right stories.

422

00:22:00,174 --> 00:22:00,234

Yeah.

423

00:22:00,684 --> 00:22:03,804

Therese Miclot: Yeah, stories

where you want your listener to

424

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imagine themselves in the story.

425

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says the main character.

426

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And so, in some of the workshops we

do, and we're working on helping people

427

00:22:13,064 --> 00:22:18,074

become more, better storytellers, we

use a tool called Advance and Color.

428

00:22:18,914 --> 00:22:22,024

Sometimes and I'll offer

my husband as an example.

429

00:22:22,084 --> 00:22:26,294

Just yesterday I was asking him,

he, we needed to change something

430

00:22:26,294 --> 00:22:30,677

with our utilities in our town, and

I simply just wanted did it happen?

431

00:22:31,444 --> 00:22:33,994

Were you able to talk to the right

person to change the utilities?

432

00:22:34,474 --> 00:22:38,464

He starts with, well, the first

thing I did was I went on the,

433

00:22:38,494 --> 00:22:40,234

website to try to find the link.

434

00:22:40,234 --> 00:22:42,184

And I'm like, advance, go.

435

00:22:42,544 --> 00:22:43,234

Did you do it?

436

00:22:43,234 --> 00:22:43,834

Did you do it?

437

00:22:44,044 --> 00:22:49,114

So sometimes some people that

need to really work on becoming

438

00:22:49,204 --> 00:22:55,024

more advanced with, moving more

quickly through the story, right?

439

00:22:55,024 --> 00:22:57,344

That we'll lose interest

if it's too detailed.

440

00:22:58,119 --> 00:22:58,339

John: Yes.

441

00:22:58,424 --> 00:22:59,534

Therese Miclot: some

people, that's the thing.

442

00:23:00,494 --> 00:23:00,824

John: Yeah.

443

00:23:00,854 --> 00:23:03,429

Therese Miclot: people,

it's color, meaning they

444

00:23:03,729 --> 00:23:04,019

John: Okay.

445

00:23:04,319 --> 00:23:08,094

Therese Miclot: know more more

of the texture of the story

446

00:23:08,094 --> 00:23:09,474

to imagine themselves in it.

447

00:23:10,344 --> 00:23:13,554

Because the opposite, it was if my

husband said, yeah, I did it, it was done.

448

00:23:14,514 --> 00:23:18,294

But there was an interesting element

to it, and that was that the woman

449

00:23:18,294 --> 00:23:23,304

that he talked with was someone that

he, knew and it, was like a video

450

00:23:23,304 --> 00:23:24,984

reunion that happened on this call.

451

00:23:25,644 --> 00:23:26,124

Color.

452

00:23:26,154 --> 00:23:26,784

So it was like

453

00:23:27,214 --> 00:23:27,564

John: Right.

454

00:23:27,594 --> 00:23:31,094

Therese Miclot: So I hadn't, seen

Pam in 25 years we're talking on

455

00:23:31,094 --> 00:23:38,264

the phone and she my, tone and

my name and added color to it.

456

00:23:38,264 --> 00:23:41,714

So ways in the book that we offer.

457

00:23:41,744 --> 00:23:44,924

Where is your edge for

learning how to tell story?

458

00:23:46,794 --> 00:23:52,199

John: Yeah, in, in my own storytelling

experience I do, I'm one of those people

459

00:23:52,199 --> 00:23:57,599

who has a tendency to add too much

information or detail into stories and

460

00:23:57,599 --> 00:24:00,689

nearly always end up having to think,

okay, does this need to be there?

461

00:24:00,689 --> 00:24:01,739

Does that need to be there?

462

00:24:02,009 --> 00:24:06,669

And try and condense the story down

to these parts that are most effective

463

00:24:06,669 --> 00:24:11,229

and relevant because nobody wants

to hear really those sort of long

464

00:24:11,229 --> 00:24:15,849

winding road stories that don't get

or take forever to get to the point

465

00:24:15,849 --> 00:24:17,049

of what you're actually talking about.

466

00:24:17,049 --> 00:24:18,489

So I think that's great advice.

467

00:24:18,789 --> 00:24:22,269

Something we could probably all be

better at, but something that does take

468

00:24:22,269 --> 00:24:25,329

a bit of preparation, I think it's not

just something probably most people

469

00:24:25,329 --> 00:24:26,499

are gonna be able to do on the spot.

470

00:24:26,499 --> 00:24:26,709

Right.

471

00:24:27,669 --> 00:24:30,969

Therese Miclot: I'm so glad you said

that, John, because that is so true.

472

00:24:30,969 --> 00:24:35,279

I think that good storytelling

needs a little preparation.

473

00:24:35,699 --> 00:24:35,729

I.

474

00:24:35,894 --> 00:24:40,784

And that it's almost like that you,

over time you really refine the story.

475

00:24:40,784 --> 00:24:44,464

So, where do people light up when

you, and or you draw them in when

476

00:24:44,464 --> 00:24:47,764

you're telling the story and when

you know, what are parts of the story

477

00:24:47,764 --> 00:24:49,264

that, to your point, you can cut out.

478

00:24:49,414 --> 00:24:50,764

They're not that essential.

479

00:24:50,954 --> 00:24:53,084

They break the rhythm of the story.

480

00:24:53,364 --> 00:24:59,144

And I have probably five or

six stories that I have told.

481

00:25:00,074 --> 00:25:03,734

not exaggerating hundreds of times

over the course of my career, and

482

00:25:03,734 --> 00:25:08,654

I have refined and refined those

stories that they land as intended,

483

00:25:09,609 --> 00:25:09,899

John: Yeah.

484

00:25:09,944 --> 00:25:11,474

Therese Miclot: I couldn't agree more.

485

00:25:11,474 --> 00:25:14,444

I think if you want to be good

at storytelling, it requires a

486

00:25:14,444 --> 00:25:17,144

little bit of preparation, and I

487

00:25:17,234 --> 00:25:17,744

John: I agree.

488

00:25:17,924 --> 00:25:20,864

Therese Miclot: of that preparation

is to tell it many times.

489

00:25:21,749 --> 00:25:25,409

To someone that you trust, and

you can ask them, where should

490

00:25:25,409 --> 00:25:27,059

I move faster through the story?

491

00:25:27,299 --> 00:25:28,739

Where should I add more detail?

492

00:25:29,399 --> 00:25:33,329

Because we're all, we all are

storytellers at heart and we all have

493

00:25:33,329 --> 00:25:38,549

heard many stories, so you'll probably

be advised well, even by a friend

494

00:25:38,609 --> 00:25:40,269

if they, will be honest with you.

495

00:25:41,539 --> 00:25:44,884

John: Yeah, give them permission

to give you some honest

496

00:25:44,884 --> 00:25:46,534

feedback, even if it's not.

497

00:25:47,044 --> 00:25:49,024

It doesn't need to, the

feedback doesn't need to be.

498

00:25:49,024 --> 00:25:49,864

This is fantastic.

499

00:25:49,864 --> 00:25:50,344

This is great.

500

00:25:50,344 --> 00:25:51,064

I love you and my friend.

501

00:25:51,334 --> 00:25:53,614

It needs to be helpful.

502

00:25:53,944 --> 00:25:57,334

What's gonna help this story

be well received by people?

503

00:25:57,584 --> 00:26:01,284

I certainly, I do a bit of standup

comedy these days and I like to get

504

00:26:01,284 --> 00:26:06,104

a bit of feedback before I take stuff

onto stage and, it's very helpful, but

505

00:26:06,104 --> 00:26:09,854

I need to have honest feedback and I

can't just have, oh, yeah, that's good.

506

00:26:09,854 --> 00:26:10,274

That'll work.

507

00:26:10,514 --> 00:26:13,254

It is like, well, it might

not, so we'll find out.

508

00:26:13,254 --> 00:26:17,004

But I'd rather know before, at least

somewhat, you never really know how stuff

509

00:26:17,004 --> 00:26:18,654

is gonna be received, so you deliver it.

510

00:26:19,304 --> 00:26:19,424

Therese Miclot: It's

511

00:26:19,734 --> 00:26:22,619

John: I don't know if this is the right

point in the conversation to us this,

512

00:26:22,764 --> 00:26:29,304

but hopefully, but how do you only

advise people to handle disruptors

513

00:26:29,394 --> 00:26:31,944

in the facilitation arrangements.

514

00:26:32,244 --> 00:26:33,304

Therese Miclot: What well, tell me more.

515

00:26:33,304 --> 00:26:35,584

What would be something that you

would find disruptive and then we

516

00:26:35,584 --> 00:26:37,559

can play around with what I might do.

517

00:26:37,859 --> 00:26:40,304

John: So a few different

ones spring to mind.

518

00:26:40,434 --> 00:26:45,194

I've maybe had this more in times

where I have facilitated workshops

519

00:26:45,194 --> 00:26:46,694

and group coaching events.

520

00:26:47,294 --> 00:26:52,454

That someone wants to dominate the

conversation, they want to ask all the

521

00:26:52,454 --> 00:26:54,194

questions or they want all the attention.

522

00:26:55,054 --> 00:26:56,604

Maybe that's a conscious thing for them.

523

00:26:56,604 --> 00:26:58,914

Maybe it's not, but they,

that's what they end up doing.

524

00:26:59,334 --> 00:27:03,294

Or someone who is kind of contrarian,

perhaps on some level doesn't really

525

00:27:03,294 --> 00:27:06,684

wanna be there or thinks they know

better and isn't being quiet about that.

526

00:27:07,494 --> 00:27:08,844

So those are a few that spring to mind.

527

00:27:09,549 --> 00:27:09,909

Therese Miclot: Okay.

528

00:27:10,779 --> 00:27:14,169

so, a couple, I think let's talk first

about the person that might be disruptive

529

00:27:14,169 --> 00:27:19,069

in that they're speaking too much and not

leaving space for other people to speak.

530

00:27:19,159 --> 00:27:20,389

I think there's a couple things.

531

00:27:20,779 --> 00:27:25,789

One is that when you start to see

that, when you start to notice someone

532

00:27:25,897 --> 00:27:31,549

speaking over others or more frequently,

I will back to context to a question.

533

00:27:31,909 --> 00:27:32,929

Here's what I will say.

534

00:27:33,349 --> 00:27:36,719

Before I ask the next question

I'll, I'm noticing I'm only hearing

535

00:27:36,719 --> 00:27:38,189

from a couple voices, not others.

536

00:27:38,189 --> 00:27:41,189

So I'll say for this next question,

I would really like to hear from

537

00:27:41,189 --> 00:27:42,509

someone who hasn't spoken up yet.

538

00:27:44,069 --> 00:27:47,609

And someone just gave me this feedback

in a meeting a couple weeks ago.

539

00:27:47,939 --> 00:27:49,024

It happened to be the person who usually

540

00:27:51,059 --> 00:27:54,239

And she comes up to me and she

goes, I saw what you did there.

541

00:27:54,989 --> 00:27:57,189

you know what I, that

was, I got the message.

542

00:27:57,504 --> 00:28:00,974

I got the message in the most

like, kind of supportive way.

543

00:28:01,244 --> 00:28:02,984

She's like, I know I can tend to overtalk.

544

00:28:02,984 --> 00:28:08,354

And when you said, let's hear from someone

who hasn't spoken, that was a helpful

545

00:28:08,354 --> 00:28:11,684

signal to me to stay baby out of this one.

546

00:28:12,374 --> 00:28:13,064

So that's

547

00:28:13,139 --> 00:28:13,319

John: Right,

548

00:28:13,424 --> 00:28:17,534

Therese Miclot: you can proactively, the

minute you start to sense that, that's

549

00:28:17,534 --> 00:28:22,334

becoming an issue, start by inviting other

people through, through the question.

550

00:28:22,364 --> 00:28:24,014

Let's hear from someone

who hasn't spoken up yet.

551

00:28:24,614 --> 00:28:25,964

I'd say that does the trick.

552

00:28:27,149 --> 00:28:29,789

50% of the time, here's another

553

00:28:30,089 --> 00:28:30,299

John: right.

554

00:28:30,599 --> 00:28:34,379

Therese Miclot: Sometimes a person

needs to be acknowledged that

555

00:28:34,379 --> 00:28:38,279

they keep talking when they don't

feel like anyone understands them.

556

00:28:39,329 --> 00:28:40,889

So this is back to mindset.

557

00:28:40,889 --> 00:28:44,639

Instead of looking at them as

like, oh, comes John again.

558

00:28:44,729 --> 00:28:50,079

He's gonna have something to say,

might think, okay, so what is John?

559

00:28:50,259 --> 00:28:53,649

What's, is John not feeling we understand?

560

00:28:54,699 --> 00:28:55,779

That he needs to know.

561

00:28:55,779 --> 00:29:00,579

We understand sometimes people

will keep talking until they

562

00:29:00,579 --> 00:29:02,289

get a sense that you get it.

563

00:29:03,159 --> 00:29:07,599

So one way that I often do that

is by restating, and restating is

564

00:29:07,599 --> 00:29:11,439

just verbalizing your understanding

of their point of view.

565

00:29:12,249 --> 00:29:15,819

Because when people feel heard

and understood, they tend to not

566

00:29:15,819 --> 00:29:17,319

feel the need to keep talking.

567

00:29:19,089 --> 00:29:22,119

So you can say, yeah, John,

I can see your excitement.

568

00:29:22,119 --> 00:29:26,379

So you're saying one, two, and

three, and then you might say yeah.

569

00:29:26,379 --> 00:29:27,429

I'm four, five, and six.

570

00:29:27,459 --> 00:29:27,849

Okay.

571

00:29:28,209 --> 00:29:30,359

So it's, and I'll re, I'll restate.

572

00:29:30,389 --> 00:29:36,269

So the issue is that without power in

Portugal, it's hard to do your job.

573

00:29:37,049 --> 00:29:38,429

say, yes, that's it.

574

00:29:38,939 --> 00:29:39,359

John: Indeed.

575

00:29:39,479 --> 00:29:41,999

Therese Miclot: Then I would turn to

others and say, what do others think?

576

00:29:43,649 --> 00:29:45,929

So I'm respecting you.

577

00:29:46,709 --> 00:29:48,629

equally respecting the rest of the group.

578

00:29:49,414 --> 00:29:49,704

John: Yeah.

579

00:29:49,829 --> 00:29:50,849

Therese Miclot: So that's the second one.

580

00:29:51,239 --> 00:29:55,889

The third one that might take a

little bit more courage is to talk

581

00:29:55,889 --> 00:30:03,069

to that person at a break and not

in a accusatory or stop talking

582

00:30:03,099 --> 00:30:05,224

manner, but just say what you notice.

583

00:30:06,219 --> 00:30:06,464

I notice

584

00:30:06,519 --> 00:30:06,579

John: Yeah.

585

00:30:06,609 --> 00:30:10,799

Therese Miclot: that when when we have

dialogue, you are the first to speak

586

00:30:10,799 --> 00:30:12,659

up and you're frequently speaking up.

587

00:30:13,514 --> 00:30:16,864

I have done this is what I found that I

don't think I would've known otherwise.

588

00:30:17,194 --> 00:30:19,054

And it's happened multiple times.

589

00:30:19,054 --> 00:30:21,764

The person will say, well, I've

been in enough meetings where no

590

00:30:21,764 --> 00:30:24,424

one will talk, and I don't want

you to have that experience.

591

00:30:25,234 --> 00:30:25,524

John: Yeah.

592

00:30:25,564 --> 00:30:29,614

Therese Miclot: essence, they're saying,

they're trying to help me the facilitator.

593

00:30:29,914 --> 00:30:31,449

And I say oh, do not worry.

594

00:30:31,479 --> 00:30:33,789

I'm not, I'm okay with silence.

595

00:30:35,034 --> 00:30:38,094

In fact, there are people in

this room that need a beat.

596

00:30:38,124 --> 00:30:41,034

They need a moment to think

before they can respond.

597

00:30:42,054 --> 00:30:46,164

And when you start speaking, it

interrupts their ability to do that.

598

00:30:47,074 --> 00:30:47,424

John: Right.

599

00:30:47,454 --> 00:30:51,044

Therese Miclot: new awareness

because I myself talking, going in

600

00:30:51,044 --> 00:30:54,224

and talking to those peoples, they

may not un, they may not know, they

601

00:30:54,224 --> 00:30:57,194

may not be aware of they're doing.

602

00:30:58,634 --> 00:31:01,154

And it usually has been

because of good intention.

603

00:31:01,274 --> 00:31:02,654

It's just misapplied.

604

00:31:05,579 --> 00:31:07,069

John: Do you think it's,

oh, sorry, go ahead.

605

00:31:07,279 --> 00:31:07,609

The last one.

606

00:31:07,639 --> 00:31:10,789

Therese Miclot: more, and this is for

when we're all like physically together,

607

00:31:11,599 --> 00:31:13,999

you need to break eye contact with them.

608

00:31:15,289 --> 00:31:18,469

Because when you give eye contact to

people, it invites them to keep talking.

609

00:31:19,669 --> 00:31:23,329

And so a very simple thing is I

would break eye contact with you.

610

00:31:23,969 --> 00:31:26,579

I would maybe return to you,

but I'm gonna break it because

611

00:31:26,579 --> 00:31:28,349

that also is a subtle signal.

612

00:31:28,559 --> 00:31:30,749

I'm interested in what

everybody else has to say.

613

00:31:33,884 --> 00:31:34,814

John: That makes a lot of sense.

614

00:31:34,964 --> 00:31:37,814

And of course for in-person

meetings, that's a lot more valuable.

615

00:31:38,204 --> 00:31:43,494

Do you think it's something you can also

help to pre-frame where before you even

616

00:31:43,494 --> 00:31:48,114

get started really to say, now this is my

expectation of how things, or this is the

617

00:31:48,114 --> 00:31:50,094

intention for how I want things to go.

618

00:31:51,114 --> 00:31:51,714

Therese Miclot: I do.

619

00:31:51,774 --> 00:31:55,464

I, in fact, I think that

most of us underuse.

620

00:31:56,799 --> 00:31:59,199

Ground rules or group agreements.

621

00:32:00,129 --> 00:32:04,369

And I have found that most

group agreements are very

622

00:32:04,369 --> 00:32:06,409

basic and not very helpful.

623

00:32:06,529 --> 00:32:09,829

They'll be like, we're gonna

start on time and on time.

624

00:32:10,119 --> 00:32:11,229

Put your devices away.

625

00:32:12,039 --> 00:32:14,019

that's housekeeping in my opinion.

626

00:32:14,469 --> 00:32:17,599

I use a different set of, and

I call them group agreements

627

00:32:17,599 --> 00:32:19,189

because that is what they are.

628

00:32:19,279 --> 00:32:23,449

I'm trying to get an agreement

with the group because when I do.

629

00:32:24,034 --> 00:32:29,524

That gives me the ability to course

correct the group when things are not

630

00:32:29,524 --> 00:32:31,654

being kept, agreements not being kept.

631

00:32:32,434 --> 00:32:35,834

for instance, one of my group

agreements is usually contribute

632

00:32:35,834 --> 00:32:37,064

as much as you consume.

633

00:32:38,804 --> 00:32:42,964

So I'm doing a lot of leadership

development and I really truly believe

634

00:32:42,964 --> 00:32:46,234

that the wisdom usually is already

in the room, even if people are new

635

00:32:46,234 --> 00:32:47,674

to leadership or things like that.

636

00:32:48,634 --> 00:32:51,664

So that means that I'm

expecting people to contribute.

637

00:32:52,294 --> 00:32:55,474

So that's also a message to the people

who tend to not speak up enough.

638

00:32:57,044 --> 00:32:59,774

Also consideration is a ground rule.

639

00:33:00,524 --> 00:33:04,514

Consideration being we're going to

create space for every voice to be heard

640

00:33:04,514 --> 00:33:09,104

here and not want to overpower another.

641

00:33:10,709 --> 00:33:14,999

When you treat those as an agreement,

because I've I'm genuinely looking

642

00:33:14,999 --> 00:33:16,979

for, can you all agree to that?

643

00:33:17,399 --> 00:33:22,609

And will you give me the the

power to keep us on track when

644

00:33:22,609 --> 00:33:24,439

we're off of these agreements?

645

00:33:24,499 --> 00:33:26,269

And no one ever says no.

646

00:33:27,199 --> 00:33:29,029

And and I use them.

647

00:33:29,944 --> 00:33:30,234

John: Yeah.

648

00:33:30,529 --> 00:33:32,659

Therese Miclot: if I'm noticing,

we're only hearing from a

649

00:33:32,659 --> 00:33:33,889

few people, not everyone.

650

00:33:34,819 --> 00:33:37,339

Maybe after a break I'll come

back and I'll say, Hey, I wanna

651

00:33:37,339 --> 00:33:38,359

tell you what I'm noticing.

652

00:33:39,589 --> 00:33:43,099

And that is that there's a few people

offering their opinion, but not everyone.

653

00:33:44,059 --> 00:33:46,579

And I know we agreed that

everyone would contribute.

654

00:33:47,809 --> 00:33:50,009

So is what, and I'll

leave it to the group.

655

00:33:50,039 --> 00:33:54,449

What else can we do to make sure

that everyone feels as though they

656

00:33:54,509 --> 00:33:56,669

had the space to speak up here?

657

00:33:59,399 --> 00:34:00,259

And so

658

00:34:01,074 --> 00:34:01,764

John: Very important.

659

00:34:02,574 --> 00:34:07,824

Have you ever been in a situation

where you've been facilitating

660

00:34:07,824 --> 00:34:10,004

to a largely resistant room?

661

00:34:12,009 --> 00:34:16,129

Like they don't like a bunch of people

who may be here 'cause I have to be

662

00:34:16,129 --> 00:34:17,239

here and don't really want to be.

663

00:34:17,659 --> 00:34:18,139

Therese Miclot: Yeah.

664

00:34:19,609 --> 00:34:22,969

What have you I'll tell you, Maya,

and you're, you do this as well.

665

00:34:22,969 --> 00:34:23,839

What do you tend to do?

666

00:34:25,938 --> 00:34:28,319

John: I tend I tend to

start off, say frame.

667

00:34:28,349 --> 00:34:29,759

I tend to frame things

up for them as well.

668

00:34:29,759 --> 00:34:33,768

It's like I want to make this as

painless and fun for you as possible

669

00:34:34,109 --> 00:34:35,429

and as brief as possible as well.

670

00:34:35,429 --> 00:34:37,469

We're not gonna have flo, we're

not gonna have do anything we're

671

00:34:37,469 --> 00:34:38,458

gonna do when we're finished.

672

00:34:38,458 --> 00:34:39,899

We'll be finished if that means going.

673

00:34:40,484 --> 00:34:41,714

Earlier that will be that.

674

00:34:42,024 --> 00:34:45,804

But your participation is gonna make

this go quicker because if I have to

675

00:34:45,804 --> 00:34:50,664

wait for people to contribute an answer,

it's gonna extend our time together.

676

00:34:51,083 --> 00:34:53,964

So, usually you can get agreement

on that, that they don't want

677

00:34:53,964 --> 00:34:55,373

to extend our time together.

678

00:34:55,764 --> 00:35:00,114

And we're already started to break down a

bit of resistance there as well, I find,

679

00:35:00,114 --> 00:35:04,319

because once they're making agreements

with you, they're a bit more on your side.

680

00:35:04,419 --> 00:35:04,709

Therese Miclot: Yeah.

681

00:35:04,759 --> 00:35:08,839

I think, again, I, what I love about

facilitation is it's a series of choices.

682

00:35:09,829 --> 00:35:11,959

That there's not one right choice.

683

00:35:11,959 --> 00:35:15,649

It's a matter of having more

options when you encounter whatever

684

00:35:15,649 --> 00:35:16,699

you encounter with the group.

685

00:35:16,699 --> 00:35:18,829

So I think those choices

absolutely make sense.

686

00:35:18,829 --> 00:35:19,700

I'll add a few more.

687

00:35:20,599 --> 00:35:25,999

think that people, especially when they're

resistant, to test whether or not it's

688

00:35:25,999 --> 00:35:28,909

safe to really offer their point of view.

689

00:35:29,929 --> 00:35:35,169

And I tend to not want that to be

buried under, the, buried under silence.

690

00:35:35,904 --> 00:35:41,644

So I will tend to lean into

or address what I know to be

691

00:35:41,644 --> 00:35:43,264

true, especially around change.

692

00:35:43,264 --> 00:35:45,724

Let's say, there's gonna be

a, an organizational change.

693

00:35:45,724 --> 00:35:50,434

I'm working with a group and I know

that there's a lot of concern, there's

694

00:35:50,434 --> 00:35:52,894

a lot of resistance to this change.

695

00:35:53,294 --> 00:35:56,154

One, I'll acknowledge it,

that not everybody is I'll

696

00:35:56,154 --> 00:35:58,404

say what is not being said.

697

00:35:59,544 --> 00:36:03,814

As a way to create psychological

safety to, not become a session where

698

00:36:03,814 --> 00:36:08,234

we're just going to complain but I

will acknowledge that everybody's at a

699

00:36:08,234 --> 00:36:13,064

different place and opinion of what's

gonna happen here with this change.

700

00:36:13,364 --> 00:36:18,404

So one is, I think acknowledging where

people are at is a powerful thing.

701

00:36:19,074 --> 00:36:22,344

The other thing that I will

use my choice is back to

702

00:36:22,344 --> 00:36:24,564

listening, and that is restating.

703

00:36:25,554 --> 00:36:30,294

Restating again, is verbalizing your point

of view or another person's point of view.

704

00:36:31,164 --> 00:36:35,424

the interesting thing, it's not

agreement, it's just that I will be

705

00:36:35,424 --> 00:36:38,724

willing to verbalize your understanding.

706

00:36:38,844 --> 00:36:41,904

So it might sound like this and

this meeting, and I, we're talking

707

00:36:41,904 --> 00:36:45,964

about a change and I'm talking a

bit about, the positives that are

708

00:36:45,964 --> 00:36:47,704

gonna happen with this org change.

709

00:36:47,734 --> 00:36:50,014

And you say, I don't know, trees.

710

00:36:50,107 --> 00:36:53,764

We've done this so many times,

we've had so many change.

711

00:36:54,874 --> 00:36:59,294

over the last couple years, how do we

all know we're not gonna lose our jobs?

712

00:37:00,314 --> 00:37:01,334

So that's what you're gonna say.

713

00:37:01,694 --> 00:37:04,154

Now, me I can't, I don't know.

714

00:37:04,154 --> 00:37:04,634

I don't know.

715

00:37:04,634 --> 00:37:05,564

I have a crystal ball.

716

00:37:06,554 --> 00:37:07,484

so I have a choice.

717

00:37:07,754 --> 00:37:10,304

I could just say, well, let's table that.

718

00:37:10,304 --> 00:37:11,054

I don't know.

719

00:37:11,324 --> 00:37:16,184

But I would tend to restate and I would

say, so the way you see it, John, is.

720

00:37:16,844 --> 00:37:21,494

We haven't figured out how to do this

well in the past, and so you're not

721

00:37:21,554 --> 00:37:23,474

confident we're gonna do this well now.

722

00:37:24,824 --> 00:37:25,874

And you're already nodding your head

723

00:37:26,569 --> 00:37:26,859

John: Fair.

724

00:37:26,864 --> 00:37:31,064

Therese Miclot: is and you're gonna say,

right, because we've had three leaders,

725

00:37:31,094 --> 00:37:35,994

we've had, reduction in force, we've

had, change in, direction five times.

726

00:37:37,224 --> 00:37:38,274

I'll just keep restating.

727

00:37:38,274 --> 00:37:44,184

So until you get a sense that we

know how to right this ship, it's

728

00:37:44,184 --> 00:37:45,624

hard to be on board with this.

729

00:37:46,614 --> 00:37:52,794

And then again, it's not my agreement,

it's just that I want you to know I,

730

00:37:52,854 --> 00:37:54,984

under I, I don't necessarily agree.

731

00:37:54,984 --> 00:37:56,304

I understand your point of view.

732

00:37:57,099 --> 00:37:57,369

John: Right.

733

00:37:57,939 --> 00:37:58,239

So

734

00:37:58,944 --> 00:38:00,384

Therese Miclot: magical skill.

735

00:38:01,329 --> 00:38:06,579

Because when people genuinely feel

heard and understood, they're gonna

736

00:38:06,579 --> 00:38:07,899

be more likely to listen to you.

737

00:38:08,564 --> 00:38:08,854

John: yeah.

738

00:38:09,019 --> 00:38:11,389

Therese Miclot: I'm probably not

gonna keep getting the same amount

739

00:38:11,389 --> 00:38:14,659

of resistance from you because I

had, at least I acknowledged it,

740

00:38:15,739 --> 00:38:16,549

John: Yeah, absolutely.

741

00:38:16,849 --> 00:38:19,039

Therese Miclot: say, how

do other people feel?

742

00:38:20,419 --> 00:38:21,409

Here's my last trick.

743

00:38:22,729 --> 00:38:25,549

When you throw it to the rest of

the group, how do other people view?

744

00:38:25,669 --> 00:38:26,929

How do other people see it?

745

00:38:27,619 --> 00:38:31,219

It can feel risky to you as a facilitator

because what if it's a pile on?

746

00:38:31,429 --> 00:38:34,429

Now they're like, yeah, and

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

747

00:38:35,269 --> 00:38:39,049

But also sometimes what I

get is another person saying,

748

00:38:39,349 --> 00:38:40,729

well, wait, it's not all bad.

749

00:38:41,489 --> 00:38:45,209

We've, we, the change in leadership

has been really positive.

750

00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:49,199

We, we have, more investment and

more funding than we've ever had.

751

00:38:50,504 --> 00:38:54,794

one, sometimes what happens more often

than not is I'm not gonna debate that

752

00:38:54,794 --> 00:39:00,974

person, but they'll, their peer will

often offer a different point of view,

753

00:39:01,784 --> 00:39:08,104

and that changes the dynamic where you

might now be more inclined to listen

754

00:39:08,104 --> 00:39:10,624

to that peer says, well, wait a second.

755

00:39:10,684 --> 00:39:12,724

There's been a lot of

positive things that happened.

756

00:39:13,789 --> 00:39:18,139

What you don't wanna do, I think, is

get into a situation where it's now you

757

00:39:18,139 --> 00:39:20,419

and that person back and forth with the

758

00:39:20,494 --> 00:39:20,719

John: Sure.

759

00:39:21,739 --> 00:39:21,934

Yeah.

760

00:39:22,039 --> 00:39:24,959

Therese Miclot: has a

front row seat to, watch.

761

00:39:25,319 --> 00:39:26,009

John: Head to head.

762

00:39:26,999 --> 00:39:27,059

Yeah.

763

00:39:28,019 --> 00:39:28,349

Yeah.

764

00:39:28,529 --> 00:39:30,449

Probably not anyone wants,

but it's a great tip.

765

00:39:30,999 --> 00:39:35,169

I wonder for you, have there been

any experiences or facilitation

766

00:39:35,169 --> 00:39:37,539

that have stood out to you like,

oh, this is what it's all about.

767

00:39:37,539 --> 00:39:38,349

This is why I do it.

768

00:39:38,349 --> 00:39:41,859

Where it's just gone so well

or been very memorable for you?

769

00:39:42,244 --> 00:39:46,954

Therese Miclot: Yeah, I think that

I, it what I really love to see is

770

00:39:46,954 --> 00:39:51,734

when people feel, like the experience

is different than anything else.

771

00:39:51,734 --> 00:39:56,534

I think most people walk into meetings,

trainings, presentations already

772

00:39:56,534 --> 00:39:59,714

with this mindset, because we've been

through so many that are just horrible.

773

00:39:59,714 --> 00:40:01,784

Like, ugh, here we go again.

774

00:40:02,984 --> 00:40:09,024

when I think that I can bring the

baking soda, when I can bring doesn't,

775

00:40:09,054 --> 00:40:10,764

every meeting doesn't have to be bad.

776

00:40:11,284 --> 00:40:15,214

Every training doesn't have to

be just drudgery and boring.

777

00:40:15,214 --> 00:40:15,274

I.

778

00:40:16,654 --> 00:40:21,204

And this happened recently where someone

came up to me and said, I came into today

779

00:40:21,204 --> 00:40:23,484

thinking like, I don't even wanna be here.

780

00:40:24,244 --> 00:40:29,039

I have a thousand other things I need

to do, but I am so glad I was here.

781

00:40:29,039 --> 00:40:31,559

This was the best day I've had all month.

782

00:40:32,329 --> 00:40:35,864

And I really believe that it

comes down to facilitation skills

783

00:40:35,864 --> 00:40:40,484

because people wanna just feel and.

784

00:40:40,914 --> 00:40:45,884

Respected and heard in meetings, and

there's just a huge deficiency in it.

785

00:40:46,574 --> 00:40:47,864

John: Yeah, absolutely.

786

00:40:48,614 --> 00:40:50,894

And certainly I think

you've given us some very.

787

00:40:50,954 --> 00:40:55,424

Good insights into facilitation today and

some things that I'm gonna be trying out.

788

00:40:55,754 --> 00:41:00,014

And so I will be going back through my

notes from this replaying this episode

789

00:41:00,264 --> 00:41:03,294

to get those points myself, but there's

more for us to get from you as well.

790

00:41:03,294 --> 00:41:06,564

You have written a book,

the Facilitation Advantage.

791

00:41:06,564 --> 00:41:07,439

Can you tell us a little about that?

792

00:41:08,004 --> 00:41:08,544

Therese Miclot: Sure.

793

00:41:08,604 --> 00:41:08,904

Sure.

794

00:41:08,904 --> 00:41:13,414

So, that book is written for really

all your listeners, and by that I'm

795

00:41:13,414 --> 00:41:16,899

not assuming everyone's a professional

facilitator or wants to be one.

796

00:41:17,284 --> 00:41:20,884

I'm talking about all of us every

day where we have to facilitate.

797

00:41:20,884 --> 00:41:22,624

So it's written for, it's

written for all of you.

798

00:41:23,794 --> 00:41:25,694

it's meant to be very practical.

799

00:41:25,694 --> 00:41:28,484

It starts with the self-assessment,

and then you can just go to

800

00:41:28,484 --> 00:41:29,504

the sections of the book.

801

00:41:29,504 --> 00:41:32,624

So if it, the storytelling,

to that section.

802

00:41:32,624 --> 00:41:34,604

If it's listening, go to that section.

803

00:41:34,634 --> 00:41:38,894

And to make it easy for your listeners,

we have a free self-assessment so that

804

00:41:38,894 --> 00:41:44,564

you can really just distill if I'm going

to focus on one or two things, and I feel

805

00:41:44,564 --> 00:41:49,004

like I could be better at how I manage

beatings or how I present information.

806

00:41:50,054 --> 00:41:51,524

We'll make it so simple.

807

00:41:51,884 --> 00:41:55,994

Go to that self-assessment and then you

can just really hone in on the one or

808

00:41:55,994 --> 00:41:59,574

two things that will improve your impact.

809

00:42:00,349 --> 00:42:00,699

John: Great.

810

00:42:01,344 --> 00:42:02,094

Therese Miclot: free to everybody.

811

00:42:02,734 --> 00:42:06,564

John: How can our listener

access the the free assessment?

812

00:42:07,194 --> 00:42:09,864

Therese Miclot: So it's at the

book website, so it's all one word,

813

00:42:10,344 --> 00:42:13,374

the facilitation advantage.com.

814

00:42:14,534 --> 00:42:15,024

John: Perfect.

815

00:42:15,114 --> 00:42:16,794

Therese Miclot: And go find it there.

816

00:42:17,589 --> 00:42:17,979

John: Awesome.

817

00:42:18,619 --> 00:42:20,809

I'll put a clickable link in

the show notes for anyone who

818

00:42:20,809 --> 00:42:21,979

wants to access it that way.

819

00:42:21,979 --> 00:42:22,739

But great.

820

00:42:22,739 --> 00:42:24,209

So I hope you go and do that.

821

00:42:24,209 --> 00:42:26,909

I certainly want to check out

that free assessment for myself.

822

00:42:26,909 --> 00:42:28,499

I think it's very helpful.

823

00:42:28,859 --> 00:42:31,289

Theres, you've shared some

wonderful things with us today.

824

00:42:31,499 --> 00:42:35,229

I don't think anyone's gonna be able

to come away from this episode, not

825

00:42:35,347 --> 00:42:39,339

having learned something valuable to

help them improve their facilitation.

826

00:42:39,639 --> 00:42:42,999

Such a powerful leadership skill

for all of us to improve upon.

827

00:42:43,359 --> 00:42:46,839

And I'm so glad that you agreed to

come and be a guest on the show today.

828

00:42:47,199 --> 00:42:50,404

And Tre Michel, thank you so much for

being my guest on present influence.

829

00:42:50,704 --> 00:42:51,104

Therese Miclot: Thank you.

830

00:42:51,104 --> 00:42:51,944

It was my pleasure.

831

00:42:52,496 --> 00:42:55,646

John: I personally really enjoyed

this chat with Therese and

832

00:42:55,706 --> 00:42:57,596

learned a lot about facilitation.

833

00:42:57,926 --> 00:43:01,436

Something that I'm so glad we

chose a whole episode to focus

834

00:43:01,436 --> 00:43:02,756

on because there was a lot there.

835

00:43:03,176 --> 00:43:07,016

I wonder what your biggest takeaway

has been from this episode, and

836

00:43:07,016 --> 00:43:08,126

I would love to hear it as well.

837

00:43:08,126 --> 00:43:10,916

So if you're on YouTube, please

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