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Digging Deep and Getting Real- Still Self-Caring Together
Episode 81st April 2024 • Being the Work • Ben Wire and Blakely Adams
00:00:00 01:08:50

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Join Ben and Blakely as they dig deep to self-care together. They explore the nuances of their mental health, trauma, and the path to healing as a professional helper. They get real with one another with their self-care challenges and navigate the complexities of providing help while also addressing their own vulnerabilities. This episode offers a raw, insightful look into the struggles and victories encountered in their journey toward understanding, acceptance, and growth.

Just a Note: this is an uncensored show full of our personal opinions. So you will hear us cuss sometimes.

We keep our community and show ad free and open to helpers, your investment will help to directly build the brave space we all need. Support Being the Work by

And remember, we're not YOUR helpers. Everything here is our opinion and is intended to support you, not give professional advice. Get the help you need, when you need it, where you need it. Here are a few resources for mental health support for you and those you love: 

National Alliance on Mental Illness

US Substance Use and Mental Health Services Administration

National Suicide Prevention Lifeline

Transcripts

Ben:

Yeah.

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I, I don't, I don't even know how

I'm gonna edit this, like, there's a

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lot of quietness and a lot of space,

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Blakely: I think that's okay.

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Ben: it's really good.

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Blakely: It's a little heavy.

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Yeah, I don't know that we were aware

where this process would take us, but I

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don't think I predicted this depth at this

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moment

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Ben: Yeah, that's clear.

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Blakely: as a sum up, you know?

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Ben: Hi everyone, it's Ben.

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Blakely's here with me.

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We're just wrapping up, this conversation

and, we're getting to a place where

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it's like, oh, how do we end this?

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Well, we decided to do an intro

to let you know what you're

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getting into today, so buckle up.

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We are getting very real on our

journey for self-care together,

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there is a lot of ups and downs.

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There's a lot of tears.

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There's anger, there is

a lot of exploration of.

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Asking a lot of deep questions

and us supporting each other

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There's, some trigger warnings

that I wanna give as well.

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I share some detail of some trauma

I've been through, not a lot of detail,

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but I do talk about some of my own

body sensations and the experience of

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And so, I'm gonna put some timestamps

in, the notes, so I'll, I'll let you

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know when I'm talking about that.

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So if you wanna skip that, you can.

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Blakely also talks a little

bit about some stuff as well.

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I'm gonna give you a timestamp

for that we talk about self-harm.

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We talk about, experiences of,

flashbacks and things like that.

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it's quick and it's also vague, so

but anyways, we just wanna warn you,

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heads up, be prepared if you're on

your way to work, but maybe this one we

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save for later.

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we've started this season

with Self-care together,

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Blakely: together.

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Ben: we started with, okay, let's

reevaluate where the podcast is and

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where we are as individuals and.

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We said, Hey, you know, why don't we get

more real, rather than just talking about

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just general ideas of what it's like to

be a counselor or a, or a social worker.

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Blakely: we are in

this, we see each other.

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We understand each other.

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I proposed.

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hmm.

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I ignorantly proposed that.

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Oh, what a sweet, naive baby proposed.

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That we give each

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other self-care challenges,

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Ben: Yes.

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Blakely: challenge some blind spots.

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Ben: More in vivo, more lived

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Blakely: in it

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Ben: let's let's show people our lives.

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Blakely: there's this, this

analogy that I've heard Brene Brown

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use that I really, really like.

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Which is day one, day

two, day three, right.

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Day two.

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You can't see at the beginning

before you started, you can't see

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the end of where you're going.

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It's fucking

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dark

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Guys

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Ben: three act structure of, of the hero's

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Blakely: two of the

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play.

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Yes.

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Oh yeah.

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Further callback.

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Well done.

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but I, uh, we are each

other's Gandalf though, right?

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You meet the wise one.

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Who sends you on the path?

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We're in day two.

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Ben: Yes,

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Blakely: We cannot see the

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light of the end.

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Ben: yes,

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Blakely: We're shining the light

that we can, or we're carrying our

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little candles through the tunnel.

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And thankfully we're side by side.

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Ben: yes.

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yes.

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Blakely: are all here with

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us too.

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This shit

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Ben: Yeah.

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Blakely: when you should take

yourself to therapy episode?

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It's, it's in the, it's in the feed.

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Ben: That's,

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that's a callback to,

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Blakely saying she needs to go

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to back to

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therapy.

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Blakely: And I called three people and it

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got very discouraging

and then I didn't do it.

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Ben: Yeah, and I think we, we, we even

sort of called that back like earlier

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in this season where I was calling

out the, no, the shoulds are a part of

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the problem that is, the mental health

stigma for us as, professional helpers.

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And there just needs

to be more acceptance.

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I.

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That this is hard.

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Just because we're we're helpers doesn't

mean, and we're trained doesn't mean

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that we have access to wisdom easily.

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No.

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We have to go through the

same painful journeys.

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Blakely: How do you

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make this so long?

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Ben: shut up.

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this is a conversation.

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This

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Blakely: No, it is it is.

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And like It can't be.

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can't be because then those last an hour.

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Ben: So wrap it up.

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Wrap it up.

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Okay.

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So, look for the trigger warnings.

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We hope that you, come along

with us in this journey.

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This whole thing is about supporting

each other and giving you platform

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to get real with yourselves.

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And if you want to be involved

with us doing this, we

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would love to hear from you.

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We all need support through this whole

journey, so, you can get in touch

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with us being the work@gmail.com.

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You can reach out to us on Instagram,

at being the work is our handle.

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was there any

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other place

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Blakely: We're on Patreon, same

patreon.com/being the work.

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Ben: yeah, so come with

us on this journey.

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So just a quick reminder, Blakely.

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Challenged me.

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To get out of my way.

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And to express myself.

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By doing an improv class.

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And I more vaguely.

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Challenged her.

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To loving kindness.

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particularly, For herself.

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And so she started reading a

book and I attended some improv.

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But we'll get into a little bit

more of what we've actually done.

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In this episode.

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Ben: in in therapy recently.

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I think I started to tell you about

this a while ago, but like in therapy

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we've been doing EMDR and when we're

doing that, like my mind is sort of

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like wandering and exploring, but

it's associating different experiences

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in my life with the same trauma

experience that I had this last summer.

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and there's been this sort of

like haunting A body memory.

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I don't really even know the actual

whole setting or context of it, but

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I'm in, I'm like maybe six, seven

and I'm in bed in the dark and I get

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woken up from sleep with screaming.

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Blakely: you did start to

tell me this and I think

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Ben: Yeah.

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Blakely: we shifted.

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Sorry.

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Ben: the, uh, like screaming

outside of my room.

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And that the, the memory of

that fear, like even just

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saying it right now, like it,

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Blakely: Gets you

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Ben: the, well, it's like the, there's

what, what do I want to say it?

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It's vestiges of, of physical

sensation like in my chest that

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plummet quickly into my stomach and.

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Kind of lead to like, just like

this floaty sensation, tingles

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all over kind of feeling.

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And so we've, we, we've been doing this

and we've been kind of tapping with it

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and, and doing some grounding with it.

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And I've made the most progress

I ever had, I've ever had.

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Where I realize like, I don't know,

there was this like vision while we

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were tapping this like sort of imaginate

imaginative thing where I, myself as me

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now, like was able to show up in that

room and see the little boy in the bed.

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And I wrote this down.

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Where'd it go?

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cause I've told you about the, the

whole thing where it's like slowly

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through therapy like this protective

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Blakely: Mm-Hmm

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Ben: this protective vision of, of

Ferdinand the bull has shown up and

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like he's been big and strong and

gentle and helped me through the

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memories and processing through like,

the trauma from this last summer.

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And like that contact with that calming

strong, comforting, loving energy.

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Has really helped in times of

intrusive thoughts and flashbacks.

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Blakely: Yeah.

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Ben: And so then a few sessions

later I realized, oh, Ferdinand

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is what I give to my clients,

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Blakely: Well, yeah.

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'cause that's what I

was just about to say.

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Why is it so fucking hard to

give ourselves what we give to

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other people when we need it?

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Ben: It's the process like,

it, it's not rational.

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Blakely: No, I mean, I

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Ben: And, and that's the thing

is like, so that was, there's

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a lot of tears around that.

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Like realizing I am who

I need in, in a way.

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Like

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Blakely: Oh.

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Hmm

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Ben: I can give myself that sense of love

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Blakely: mm-Hmm.

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What?

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You have hated when I say Mm-Hmm.

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Ben: I have because I wasn't ready.

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So I showed up in that little boy's room

as Ferdinand and and as myself, and I was

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able to see him laying in bed, frightened

and terrified, And I wrote this, oh shit.

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Okay.

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Blakely: I.

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Ben: okay, okay, okay.

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I would've really, really,

really loved to be your dad.

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You are so loving and kind shit.

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Blakely: Mm-Hmm.

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Ben: Your heart was so warm and soft

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and beautiful and lovely.

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I would've loved you, and I

would've been so proud of you.

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Blakely: Yeah.

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Ben: I would, I would claim you as

my own, and I'd watch you move about.

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Oh, what's that say?

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My eyes are too blurry.

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Um, I would notice you when you are down.

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I would encourage you when you feel low.

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I'd let you talk and I'd

ask you about your life.

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I'd take you to ice cream and

Starbucks and laser tag and bowling.

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I had learned to Rollerblade for you.

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I'd watch Teenage Mutant

Ninja Turtles with you.

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I would be the Green

Power Ranger with you.

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I'd play football and basketball with you.

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I'd hug you and I'd love you.

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I'd teach you about girls.

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I'd teach you how to be confident.

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I'd teach you how to spot a liar and

I'd show you how to trust yourself.

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I'd show you how to do things and

let you try and fail and try again,

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and I'd support you throughout.

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you are so special as you lay

there sweet in your bed, terrified.

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I would've laid next to you and I

would've helped you know you were safe.

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It was the first time that I've

given that to me like it's crazy

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that like this is exactly what.

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I did for Brooks when he got attacked.

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And ironically, what I've

learned to do, because I felt

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terrified when he got attacked.

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And

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Blakely: Mm-Hmm.

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Ben: I don't know, like

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That's, uh.

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Really nice to feel, I guess

like I don't think I've cried

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like that in front of you ever.

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Really?

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Around really anybody

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Blakely: No,

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not like that.

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Ben: Except for, except for Ashlee.

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Blakely: Hmm.

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Ben: Well, and I guess my therapist, she's

seen my gross snot coming outta my nose.

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Blakely: You know,

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That's a good thing about having

friends that do what we do.

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That stuff doesn't tend to shake as much.

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It can get pretty real.

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Yeah.

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What does that feel like?

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Ben: light while it's happening,

it's hard to, it's still hard

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for me to just let it happen.

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cause.

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I think I, uh, was more concerned

about you than I was about me.

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And that might not be fair.

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I don't know that I needed to be concerned

about you, but I was, like diving into

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the, in intensity of it is, is hard.

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It's not fun.

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Blakely: Yeah.

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Ben: don't like it.

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But I mean, it's sad and I wish

I could have done it sooner,

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and that's the grief of it.

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But like, I also know that it's

life changing and transformational

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and so like, it feels good.

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To feel the feelings now, like after

they've passed, like it feels lighter.

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Blakely: yeah,

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Ben: My muscles don't feel so tight.

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It feels like there is a lot of release.

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My mind feels clear.

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It's almost like when I do some

meditations, like if I'm in, in the

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right space, like there's this line,

this, that, this guy says that I like

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that he just simply says, what if there

were no problems to solve right now?

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And there are times when I've been

able to realize, oh, there's a lot of

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freedom in that and this, this just

does it, like feeling these feelings

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with you and reading this and Like it.

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It, it is easy.

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Very, very easy access

to that sense of freedom.

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Like I,

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Blakely: Hmm.

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Ben: there is no problems

to solve right now.

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Blakely: Yeah,

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Ben: feels safe, it feels

accepting, it feels cared for,

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it feels embraced and welcomed.

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Blakely: That totally makes sense.

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Ben: yeah, Thanks for

letting me cry like that.

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Blakely: I don't mind.

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That's all right.

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Thanks for sharing.

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Ben: Oh God.

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Blakely: Thanks for sharing.

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Ben: You know, back in, back

when I asked you to do, uh,

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loving kindness for homework

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Blakely: Mm-Hmm

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Ben: and you were like, uh, at least I

gave you something concrete to fucking do.

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Blakely: mm-Hmm.

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Ben: Uh, I think I showed

my work on this, so,

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Blakely: In fact, but you also

manifested my fucking ex-girlfriend.

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Thanks.

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Ben: yes.

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Well, putting it out into the air,

it's putting out into the world.

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Blakely: You did this.

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Ben: yes.

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Yeah, you can blame me.

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That's okay.

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Okay, so you're saying winter solstice?

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Blakely: Yes.

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So new friends, the, the only other gay

moms in preschool, so it's, you know.

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Ben: yeah.

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High press,

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Blakely: High press trying

to make a good impression.

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Our kids need to see other queer families.

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We're very Midwestern suburban.

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Like they seem to be other people

who are aware that, I don't know, the

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world is melting and everyone's acting

like it's normal out here in Baytown.

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Ben: yeah.

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Blakely: So they have a

solstice party on my birthday.

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Ben: Hmm.

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Blakely: Okay.

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I'm supposed to have

dinner with my parents.

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Go buy the solstice party.

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Cool, cool, cool.

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So at the solstice party they have

the, oh, what the like wish paper,

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it's like real thin and you kinda

like write stuff on it and then

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Ben: Oh,

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Blakely: and it,

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Ben: sure, sure.

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Yeah.

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Blakely: it floats off well.

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So one of the other moms

she got, she got some going.

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We're all kind of setting our intentions

on the darkest night of the year,

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and I'm writing down like, okay.

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I'm on the self-compassion journey.

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Like, send me what I need to, to

just cross this fucking bridge.

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I'm, I'm here, I'm in it.

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It's, I'm turning 38.

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This is my day.

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The darkest night of the year is mine.

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Woo.

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So we light these up.

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First of all, I should have known,

'cause this paper, it was like we were

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trying to commit arson with this shit.

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It immediately, a blaze starts

floating directly into their

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Ben: Oh no.

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Blakely: four of them go up at

the same time, just like headed

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for the trees and the roof

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Ben: Wow.

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Blakely: and we're all just kinda

standing there looking at each

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other like, this is good omen.

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Right?

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So I, I think, oh.

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That funny, Ben has sent me on this

self-compassion loving kindness journey

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that Ah, yeah, I've been trudging along.

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It's

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great.

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And then this, you did this, you did this.

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Ben sent all the ghosts from

my past knocking on my door.

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I did too.

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I swear to God.

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I sent it up in flame

and asked for this shit,

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Ben: Yes you did.

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Blakely: but I need someone

to blame and so I blame you.

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Why did you send this to me?

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Why are you making me do this?

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My toxic, abusive, horrible

ex-girlfriend shows up after a

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zero contact for 10 fucking years.

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And yes, I blame you.

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Ben: You are

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Blakely: God.

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Thanks.

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I don't wanna deal with this.

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Ben: Yeah.

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Blakely: have a totally

different life now.

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Ben: Mm-Hmm

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Blakely: live it?

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Let the ghosts spook and haunt as they

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will ghosts.

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Be ghosts.

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Let 'em do what they do.

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Ben: Yeah.

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Blakely: Oh, all of my intentions are

set on handling my shit and all honesty.

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This is my shit.

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Ben: Yeah.

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Authenticity is hard.

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Blakely: It's so hard.

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You have to know what it is.

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First of all, you have to

like, you have to know you.

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Then you have to have enough appreciation

and confidence in knowing you that

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you can enact it, the real version

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Ben: Yeah.

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To me there's a,

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there's a real reality

of us asking questions

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and how core that is to our being.

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Blakely: Okay.

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Ben: We're questioning beings, humans, and

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Blakely: I mean, we wouldn't have

tools if you didn't ask questions.

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Ben: Exactly.

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we have to interrogate our experience and

learn from it and then produce from it.

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So we appropriate our experiences and

the life around us and we create from it.

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authenticity is also interrogating

ourselves, which is this odd, a

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robero, I believe is what it is.

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The snake eating itself or whatever.

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It's, uh, constantly becoming, it's

constantly asking questions and

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becoming something new and developing.

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And that's a really difficult

balance to try to strike.

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Like

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Blakely: We're being

born even as we're dying.

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Right.

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Ben: what that, what it really kind

of implies, I guess the, the, the

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consequence of that is living in a

question rather than living in an answer.

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And,

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Blakely: But that is more authentic.

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Ben: it's the recursion of it.

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when you question and you find an

answer, you live authentically to that

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answer until the next question comes.

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But you have to keep your self open.

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And

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Blakely: well, yeah.

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I mean, following this

mission statement, yes.

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I just think that it's actually

rare to do because it's so

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challenging and because it's painful.

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It's facing down the shit

that we don't like to.

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Ben: Exactly.

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Blakely: The constant conveniences

and the constant like busy nonsense

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:

is so much easier to manage.

429

:

Everyone acts like it stresses 'em the

fuck out, but it's like it's all just a

430

:

bunch of fluff to avoid our mortality.

431

:

Hang on.

432

:

How much of our life is just

distracting from our mortality?

433

:

And I think that's different

for everybody, but I think it's

434

:

in there for everybody too.

435

:

The answer's different,

but none is bullshit.

436

:

Ben: Right, because I mean, there,

there're the, the recursive nature,

437

:

the, reiterative nature, the

cycle of life is we question, we

438

:

answer, we question, we answer.

439

:

It And to me, like I

don't, I don't know why.

440

:

Like I just have felt compelled to, to

see other people as valuable and human

441

:

and, and able for me to learn from them.

442

:

And, and, they help me learn and,

and I help support them in ways

443

:

that they can't support themselves.

444

:

And I don't know why.

445

:

That's just been something

that's always been a part of me

446

:

pushing me forward into life.

447

:

And

448

:

I have found a lot of pride and

a lot of strength and a lot of,

449

:

I don't know, gentle strength.

450

:

I mean, it's, it's, it's interesting,

but the fear of always living in the

451

:

unknown and the lie of certainty.

452

:

Is the reality.

453

:

that's the, the mix of trying to

synthesize these two opposites, this being

454

:

and non-being existence and non-existence

and like question and, and certainty.

455

:

Like, I don't know, like it's a balance.

456

:

It's wise mind.

457

:

It's, it's, and unfortunately

it's also not a clear answer.

458

:

And so when I ask you to do, like,

when you ask me how to do the loving

459

:

kindness and put some concreteness

onto it, like, yeah, it's, it's hard

460

:

to describe, but I, I know what it is

because it's, I've experienced it and

461

:

I suppose that's why I asked you to

do it, is to lean into the unknown.

462

:

Lean into the, to the.

463

:

Which is ultimately scary.

464

:

Blakely: Yeah, because

look what pops outta it.

465

:

Ben: I know.

466

:

Blakely: I don't wanna stick my

head in the dark black hole anymore.

467

:

Ben: The dark black hole of

468

:

certainty of acting, acting

like it, it doesn't exist.

469

:

Blakely: Yeah, that was easier.

470

:

Ben: I just invited you to pull

your head out of the sand then you

471

:

realized every, everything that

was around you was still there.

472

:

Blakely: Mm-Hmm.

473

:

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

474

:

Ben: Oh

475

:

Blakely: The timing of this

is just too fucking annoying.

476

:

Ben: Uh,

477

:

Blakely: I try to be a scientist.

478

:

Coincidences happen, but

gimme a fucking break.

479

:

Ben: but I show my work.

480

:

Blakely: Thank you.

481

:

Welcome.

482

:

I

483

:

dunno.

484

:

I'm just stuck on my why now.

485

:

Temper tantrum.

486

:

It's real hard to get past this.

487

:

Ben: But that's why, that's, I,

I, that's why I show my work.

488

:

I, I show my work to you.

489

:

Like I give you the evidence.

490

:

This is what has come from me

not turning away from my fear.

491

:

Blakely: And this is what I mean.

492

:

Honestly, this is what's valuable about

getting out of our own echo chamber.

493

:

There's specific stuff that has

influenced us based on what we do too.

494

:

We're just, we are behind the curtain.

495

:

We're too aware of this stuff

on top of everything else.

496

:

It just creates this complexity of we're

already trying to enact what we value,

497

:

which is balance, wellness wise, mind,

498

:

Ben: Mm-Hmm

499

:

Blakely: emotion, regulation, physical,

emotional, mental wellness and health

500

:

to the maximum degree at all times.

501

:

Of course, that's the goal,

especially for us ' cause we're

502

:

models of it in the world.

503

:

but I can, I know I complain

about, I complain about our roles

504

:

and what a strain they are a lot.

505

:

But there is a strange thing of

being, I get to have a layer of

506

:

gratitude and I wonder what you feel

like happens in this echo chamber.

507

:

I feel like I get to have a

gratitude for my own misery

508

:

of how I can manipulate that

of myself to help other people.

509

:

It gives me understanding, it gives

me empathy, it gives me tools.

510

:

what was I saying earlier

about this specific thing?

511

:

Ben: Yeah,

512

:

Blakely: you were, and it

made me think about it.

513

:

Ben: You

514

:

knew what it could be to

want to cut out the pain,

515

:

Blakely: that.

516

:

Ben: and how useful it was to help,

to help you engage with the clients

517

:

that were also feeling the same.

518

:

Blakely: I've been to a point of darkness

that I felt like the darkness lived

519

:

inside me and it could not extricate it,

520

:

Ben: Right.

521

:

Blakely: And I can fully understand

the desire to literally trigger

522

:

warning, cut your skin open,

reach in, and just let the poison

523

:

Ben: Yeah.

524

:

Blakely: to be fucking gone, even

if it only lasts for a moment.

525

:

Ben: Yeah.

526

:

Blakely: Just to be so desperate to be

527

:

Ben: Mm-Hmm

528

:

Blakely: this poison and that

appreciation, that understanding

529

:

is something that me better.

530

:

Ben: Yeah.

531

:

Blakely: It makes me better in

that room because I can tell

532

:

you I didn't have it before.

533

:

So to be glad that I reached a point of

darkness, that gave me an understanding.

534

:

That's a weird, twisted thing through what

sounds like such a, a pile of darkness.

535

:

It actually feels lighter better that

that connectedness of, there's one

536

:

thing of doing treatment as a scientist.

537

:

There's another thing of leaning

in and being connected to

538

:

another person through pain.

539

:

Ben: Yeah, so.

540

:

There's a book that I really enjoy.

541

:

It's called, the Art and Science

of Planning Psychotherapy.

542

:

It's.

543

:

By Mary Jo Peebles and the whole

book is, is meant to balance

544

:

this understanding and diagnosis.

545

:

conceptualizations, like trying to be a

human and also trying to be a scientist.

546

:

Blakely: Yes,

547

:

Ben: And ' cause we do need to have

some structure to actually plan things

548

:

while also like, she just kind of

the, the book is written very in a

549

:

very narrative fashion and I love it.

550

:

Like it's, it's a really

beautifully written book.

551

:

Doesn't feel like a textbook, but

it's so packed with knowledge.

552

:

Yeah.

553

:

And wisdom.

554

:

And so anyways, she talks about this like,

it is a completely different, she doesn't

555

:

use these words, I use these words.

556

:

It's a different epistemological

constructs diagnosis is separating people

557

:

into categories and finding symptoms

and trying to do the math what does this

558

:

present as The understanding is very human

it is getting underneath the problem to

559

:

understand the lived experience of it.

560

:

And that's what we do.

561

:

That's what we, we are trying

to balance both of those things

562

:

and

563

:

People don't like to feel pain and

therefore, to me, don't like to sit

564

:

in the uncertainty of a question.

565

:

They want quick answers, they want quick

fixes, and they will only, they, the

566

:

people in power or in, in, in control of

money will invest in those answers and

567

:

not in people who actually have wisdom

that sit in the question to understand it.

568

:

Blakely: Mm-Hmm.

569

:

Ben: so, I, I, I'm right with you.

570

:

Like when I, when I think about my

journey of experiencing trauma I can't

571

:

separate it from the stories I have

heard of trauma and the secondary trauma

572

:

that I have picked up along the way.

573

:

Blakely: Yep.

574

:

Ben: because their descriptions and their,

embodiment of that trauma in front of

575

:

me, uh, has lived inside of me as well.

576

:

Like it has mirror neuroned over,

over the gap between the two of us.

577

:

And I have felt the sensations that

people have described to me, despite me

578

:

having very different phy physiology than

them and having never been there, but

579

:

my empathy and my imagination that is

active to understand people has brought

580

:

me to knowing what it feels like, but

also having gone through my own traumas

581

:

Blakely: huh.

582

:

Ben: this year

583

:

I haven't looked at my chart, but I'm

quite sure there is a diagnosis of PTSD.

584

:

Blakely: Yeah.

585

:

Ben: I also learned this year that

586

:

Blakely: Sorry.

587

:

I thought you, I'm, I've been so, I've

been seeking answers so intensely from

588

:

all different sources that I've been

leaning into my, uh, my horoscope a bit.

589

:

I literally thought you meant

your astrological chart.

590

:

Ben: Oh no, that's funny.

591

:

That's funny.

592

:

You were probably really

593

:

shocked about what he's talking about.

594

:

He's talking about horoscope.

595

:

Like Ben.

596

:

Blakely: why I laughed.

597

:

That's why I laughed.

598

:

And then you were like

PTSD and I was like, oh

599

:

Ben: yeah.

600

:

You're

601

:

Blakely: that chart.

602

:

Ben: Oh.

603

:

Blakely: That

604

:

Ben: No, like I also, I also found out I

605

:

have, I have ADHD and have had that

for a very long time and so like

606

:

leaning into loving kindness for myself.

607

:

And what it is to have an

appreciation of, of who I am

608

:

Blakely: Yeah.

609

:

Ben: and learning that I am Ferdinand

learning that I can be very large

610

:

and take up very much a lot of space.

611

:

Blakely: Hold on, hold on, hold on.

612

:

Is that Ben saying that what he

needs already lives within him?

613

:

What?

614

:

Ben: Shut the fuck up.

615

:

Blakely: Gimme this one.

616

:

I'm struggling.

617

:

Ben: Oh, sorry.

618

:

You were right all along.

619

:

I should have listened to, I should

have listened to you a long time ago.

620

:

You had vision to places I

621

:

Blakely: Oh fuck.

622

:

fuck.

623

:

Ben: and you wanted me to

624

:

Blakely: I don't think, I don't I mean,

625

:

Ben: So fuck you.

626

:

No, no, no, no.

627

:

Fuck you.

628

:

You brought all this about.

629

:

You brought all this about.

630

:

It's your fault.

631

:

It is your fault.

632

:

All the pain I've been

through this last year.

633

:

It is you.

634

:

Blakely: Yeah, yeah.

635

:

I know.

636

:

I know.

637

:

It's true.

638

:

Ben: Fuck

639

:

Blakely: my God, no, but like,

it's surprising, but it probably

640

:

shouldn't be that we, like

641

:

Ben: Yeah.

642

:

Blakely: we spun, we spun

the table on each other.

643

:

You do what I do and I'll do what you

644

:

do.

645

:

And then Mm-Hmm.

646

:

Ben: Yep.

647

:

Blakely: Holy

648

:

Ben: Let's see what emerges.

649

:

Blakely: A lot.

650

:

Spoiler alert.

651

:

It's a lot has emerged.

652

:

Both what?

653

:

What I feel like we've actually

enacted by walking through the stuff.

654

:

Right.

655

:

But I.

656

:

I, I try not to be woo woo, man,

but how the fuck does this happen?

657

:

I

658

:

joke, but not that,

659

:

where did this come from?

660

:

Right, right now is, it's strange.

661

:

It's strange that I nearly

literally asked for it.

662

:

Ben: yeah.

663

:

My pain has helped me understand

other people, uh, and their pain.

664

:

And unfortunately that's come

with some suffering on my end

665

:

which has to completely impacted

my professional development,

666

:

Blakely: Yeah.

667

:

cause that's what's striking me really

strongly as you talk is so you, most

668

:

of the trauma that you're referencing

has happened in like recent past,

669

:

and you're feeling almost like.

670

:

Almost a test of those

skills in a sense, right?

671

:

Like, okay, like I have to walk the trial

of really applying this, of finding the

672

:

me thing that you have started to find

673

:

right

674

:

Ben: the, the Ferdinand, the bull

experience of that is me, the

675

:

strength, the power, the gentleness

as well is all wrapped up in that.

676

:

And, uh, recent past of trauma, really.

677

:

I mean, it kind goes back to, I wanna say

20, 20 12 was the first like car accident

678

:

Blakely: Oh, I forget about that.

679

:

Yep.

680

:

Ben: I would've been probably diagnosed

with, with acute stress because it

681

:

didn't last longer than a month.

682

:

But I think honestly now

that I think about it,

683

:

like,

684

:

Blakely: have car shit

685

:

Ben: no, I still have car shit.

686

:

So I, that's what I diagnosed myself

back then because I was like, I

687

:

don't want to have PTSD, but no, I, I

688

:

have it and

689

:

it, yeah, like it got it, got there and

690

:

Blakely: uh,

691

:

Ben: anyways,

692

:

Blakely: I, yeah.

693

:

So many diagnoses.

694

:

I don't want,

695

:

Ben: yeah.

696

:

Blakely: as if that matters.

697

:

Uh oh man.

698

:

And the timeline of it is what I'm,

what I'm thinking about is, so you've,

699

:

Ben: Oh, you were asking, you were

asking like, like if I felt tested.

700

:

And yes, absolutely, because it's

like me helping as I'm in pain, but

701

:

also learning as I'm going through.

702

:

And like there is , this obligation

that I've embraced and both hated.

703

:

It's like this both end thing , I

will choose to face this pain

704

:

and fear, to help other people.

705

:

and I have, have, I've developed.

706

:

A ton.

707

:

Like I'm very, very proud

of what I've become.

708

:

Blakely: Mm-Hmm.

709

:

Ben: but the unfortunate part that

I haven't provided it to myself, to

710

:

this capacity, to this level where I

haven't felt, I can actually rest, in

711

:

a way that I've never rested before.

712

:

Blakely: Mm-Hmm.

713

:

Ben: I'm, starting to sort of be

aware that also the way that I'm

714

:

talking about it right now makes

it feel like it is something

715

:

that is permanent, but it is not.

716

:

It is something that is accessible

and I know how to access it,

717

:

but it's not something that.

718

:

If I don't cultivate it, it will

not be there, is what I'm saying.

719

:

Blakely: that's what I

said a minute ago, right?

720

:

Like I set this intention of

I'm gonna cross this bridge.

721

:

Ben: Right?

722

:

Blakely: And we don't dictate

the terms of that that much

723

:

though.

724

:

And that's what, don't know.

725

:

It's all 'cause, uh, it's in the balance

of certainty that the world makes itself.

726

:

Right.

727

:

There's not a right or wrong choice.

728

:

Ben: Mm-Hmm.

729

:

Blakely: We enact what we,

730

:

what, what we pursue.

731

:

There's not, I'm trying to, there is

something I'm trying to put together here.

732

:

Hold on.

733

:

. Why does this feel like it

flips through my fingers.

734

:

, I became a therapist right after

735

:

I,

736

:

Ben: Right.

737

:

Blakely: I haven't, I haven't been able

to have this perspective until today

738

:

that I knew that I was using some of that

to help them, but I didn't necessarily

739

:

appreciate that it would help me too.

740

:

Ben: Mm-Hmm.

741

:

Blakely: And it, it has put me on that

path further than I thought, further than

742

:

I thought helping people is healing too.

743

:

And I, I haven't given it a minute to

consider that it really was helpful I

744

:

have had that, shame that, I shouldn't

feel that way and that I was, bottling

745

:

a lot of this up and saying like if I

help them make progress, then I'm making

746

:

progress and I'm in a space now where I

can acknowledge and be authentic about how

747

:

much progress that is legitimately there.

748

:

It has a healing momentum.

749

:

Ben: Yes, absolutely.

750

:

Blakely: Even when we're not being in

751

:

Ben: yeah, no, there is a, there's a post.

752

:

There's a post-traumatic

growth with learning and

753

:

facilitating and, and addressing.

754

:

Pain and trauma when it's not yours.

755

:

to say that we're not constantly

learning and constantly getting

756

:

insight from our clients Like

that always is happening for me.

757

:

And I, I had a thought, I just popped

into my mind there is a connection between

758

:

our pain and our human experience and

the expectation socially that we are

759

:

sort of plastic unhuman, perfect beings.

760

:

Blakely: Right.

761

:

Ben: that it creates the

soil for imposter syndrome.

762

:

this, this experience, of

feeling like you don't belong.

763

:

And that's something that I've been

committed to trying to like call out

764

:

and so the more that I have, I've,

I've faced this and just said the

765

:

positives of it, the strengths of it,

the ability that I have learned from

766

:

the, the, the growth that I have made.

767

:

I don't feel like an

imposter, like I belong.

768

:

Blakely: yeah.

769

:

Oh.

770

:

'cause I

771

:

can bitch and complain about

this timing all day, but it's

772

:

not co, it's not coincidental.

773

:

It's not.

774

:

it's not out of control in this way.

775

:

It makes me feel out of control if

I look closely because I've, I have

776

:

asked for this and it gives me this

weird, this weird faith feeling that

777

:

Ben: Hmm.

778

:

Blakely: I am constantly

trying to be a control freak.

779

:

And I'm constantly saying

like, ah, I should be ready for

780

:

this, or I should be over that.

781

:

Or I should, I

782

:

should, I, should

783

:

Ben: Right, right, right.

784

:

Blakely: I, I do believe that what

you need shows up when you need it.

785

:

What you have, you have the tools.

786

:

You have to carve them out and cultivate

them and hone them, but they're there.

787

:

Except have I actually

believe that for me.

788

:

Ben: I was just gonna ask you,

I'm gonna put this to the test.

789

:

Like, okay, so me sobbing in front

of you today, reading a letter from

790

:

me to, to me saying I would have

absolutely loved to be your father.

791

:

Blakely: Which by the way, Ben, if

this was only the first time that

792

:

I observed you doing therapy with

yourself, like, like, by the way, what a,

793

:

Ben: woo.

794

:

No, it's that.

795

:

No, no.

796

:

Blakely: and you still, but still you're

such a fucking four that you fight

797

:

me, that you have what you need when

you literally do Ben on Ben therapy.

798

:

Like,

799

:

Ben: Shut

800

:

up.

801

:

Okay.

802

:

Okay.

803

:

Yes.

804

:

You are all knowing and you

are so good at what you do.

805

:

Blakely: I know.

806

:

Ben: Like,

807

:

Blakely: Uh, but, but really

I set myself on this path

808

:

and whatever comes of it is okay because.

809

:

Me in the universe got an

agreement that will make it okay.

810

:

I'm okay.

811

:

I'm in a safe place.

812

:

I'm in a secure place.

813

:

I'm in a secure place with me.

814

:

I like me, I like the

person I actually married.

815

:

I have fucking kids that are amazing.

816

:

Ben: Yeah.

817

:

Blakely: What else do I need?

818

:

And that will mean, that will stay.

819

:

That's what I have.

820

:

I have,

821

:

Ben: I

822

:

Blakely: also have all of this like

breadth of wisdom and expertise that

823

:

I can say out loud that I have that,

yes, I can borrow it for myself.

824

:

Ben: Yeah.

825

:

yeah.

826

:

Blakely: So if I wanna bitch and

complain about the timing, well

827

:

then I shouldn't have hit the timer.

828

:

Ben: He's, you should,

829

:

the shouldn't have I don't

like the word, but it points

830

:

to the, I need to accept this.

831

:

Blakely: Yeah,

832

:

I mean, it's not my fault.

833

:

It's not a should.

834

:

It's

835

:

here.

836

:

Ben: Yeah.

837

:

Yeah.

838

:

to me, the way that just the tone sort of

like the, the spirit, I feel like you're

839

:

saying it from is more wise and more

grounded and less, clinging to certainty

840

:

or like clinging to hope for certainty.

841

:

but it's like a calm understanding of

this is what I have In this moment,

842

:

it doesn't feel like you're so focused

on the absence of what's there the,

843

:

the, the pain always asks why and

I've been telling you this whole time.

844

:

That's not the, that's not

the question we need to ask.

845

:

Blakely: But Ben there's just that

piece of me that has been screaming

846

:

that on repeat

847

:

for years, and she was back.

848

:

She was way in the background

849

:

way back there, So when she's

given a fucking one-way ticket

850

:

to the front of the line,

851

:

Ben: I've invited her forward.

852

:

Blakely: she would like to speak.

853

:

Ben: Yes.

854

:

Blakely: of us have been telling

her to shut the fuck up for about,

855

:

I don't know, eight years now.

856

:

Said, okay, enough.

857

:

You're not, nobody has an answer

to your question, and then all of a

858

:

sudden, I'm at Costco getting gas.

859

:

I looked down at my phone and

here's an opportunity to answer her.

860

:

Ben: Yeah.

861

:

Mm-Hmm

862

:

Blakely: She, let's let her have her

863

:

Ben: mm-Hmm.

864

:

Blakely: cause

865

:

she's been waiting

866

:

and that's just

867

:

I could say it's coincidental, but

this shit comes up when I am doing

868

:

the exact things that I did to

intentionally heal myself from this

869

:

shit the first time I'm doing my loving

kindness meditations that I did then

870

:

very intentionally so that I could give

871

:

people that I

872

:

Ben: What have you done?

873

:

What have you done?

874

:

Concretely,

875

:

what have you done?

876

:

what is, what is

877

:

your meditation?

878

:

Blakely: I'm the big one

is that I'm back in yoga.

879

:

That's the thing that changes my mind

and body the most and is the, is a big

880

:

thing that I did then that gave me an

881

:

anchor.

882

:

And so to have that be a relatively

recent return of my wellness

883

:

practice, one of the reasons that I

didn't do it for a while was because

884

:

like emotionally, it felt really

connected to this trauma and this

885

:

situation.

886

:

like like child's pose weeping on my

mat was a regular experience for me for

887

:

a while.

888

:

Right?

889

:

And so,

890

:

Ben: Weeping on your mat.

891

:

Blakely: no, no, I thought it

might 'cause, 'cause in that

892

:

space, I, I, I let it flow more.

893

:

That's part of the process.

894

:

I'm in tune with my body and there's

just a, a fluidity that I appreciate

895

:

of challenging and it's, I don't

know, I'm starting to understand that

896

:

it's kind of probably one of my A DHD

things that this physical challenge

897

:

gives me, the fidgety whatever.

898

:

Can possibly fucking be

outside of that dark ass room.

899

:

And so that is the main thing because

I'm forcing myself into a head space.

900

:

That is, that is kind of challenging

and finding there that I am still safe.

901

:

Oh, but the weirdest experiences,

'cause I did, honestly, I had

902

:

kind of a go-to loving kindness.

903

:

I was, I was starting to do more and

more DBT or getting back to doing

904

:

more DBTI had as a student, I had as a

student, done as a practicum student.

905

:

I was a DBT therapist and trying

to practice what I preach.

906

:

And so I was also being challenged

by being in consult and being forced

907

:

to do loving kindness meditations.

908

:

In groups of people when I have at

the forefront of my mind this fucking

909

:

rage at two people in the world.

910

:

So yeah, also weeping in DBT consultation

and which makes me of all people feel

911

:

Ben: Yeah, you

912

:

feel so strong

913

:

Blakely: so great.

914

:

Ben: good,

915

:

Blakely: so threats that I feel

when you shove me down this and

916

:

lovingly

917

:

Ben: just determined like,

I don't really fucking care.

918

:

Like you

919

:

need to turn that direction.

920

:

Blakely: it doesn't

matter 'cause I need it.

921

:

Who caress

922

:

Yeah.

923

:

And I, that I appreciate and respect

and, and love and hate and whatever,

924

:

and then, and then it happens.

925

:

yes, this feels

926

:

Ben: See, that's where, okay, so that's

where my metaphor of me inviting you

927

:

to pull your head out of the sand, like

in realizing everything is still there,

928

:

there is no like bigger things at work.

929

:

Like it is really just,

yes, what, what you need.

930

:

You will find when you look.

931

:

Like it is present.

932

:

The, the power of our mind to put

ourselves in like, just to bury our heads

933

:

is

934

:

Blakely: no.

935

:

I was ready to do it.

936

:

I was ready to do it.

937

:

Me, me independently, me independently.

938

:

I

939

:

Ben: no, no, no, no,

940

:

Blakely: those people.

941

:

Ben: Okay, sure,

942

:

Blakely: I don't

943

:

Ben: Like that

944

:

seems, that seems, to be like, like

the only thing there that's like,

945

:

okay, maybe that's the universe, right?

946

:

Like her, them reaching out to you.

947

:

Blakely: dude.

948

:

Then now,

949

:

now,

950

:

Ben: Yeah.

951

:

The timing.

952

:

Okay, fine, fine.

953

:

But what, what is here is here

954

:

Blakely: I had been, I did my Pima reading

955

:

Ben: no.

956

:

That's right.

957

:

That's right.

958

:

That's right.

959

:

That is

960

:

Blakely: before I headed

out to Costco to be a

961

:

Ben: You're doing the love and kindness

reading I assigned you, and you get the.

962

:

Oh

963

:

Blakely: or

964

:

kind.

965

:

I didn't, I sat on my phone and I

966

:

Ben: yes.

967

:

The irony of bodhichitta is pain.

968

:

Blakely: Oh, nice.

969

:

Ben: This is the irony.

970

:

This is the irony.

971

:

This is the That is why.

972

:

That is why like it is called

loving Kindness warriors.

973

:

Like the people who do this

are loving kindness warriors.

974

:

This is

975

:

Blakely: no.

976

:

Ben: and having courage,

and is so fucking hard.

977

:

Like this is not for

978

:

the week.

979

:

Blakely: Are

980

:

Ben: Yes, you're

981

:

squirming.

982

:

Blakely: now?

983

:

I cannot.

984

:

Ben: Pull

985

:

Blakely: I can't,

986

:

Ben: me.

987

:

Oh my God.

988

:

Blakely: I, I haven't won it

out of my skin in a while.

989

:

Okay.

990

:

Mm-Hmm.

991

:

And I keep doing that, right?

992

:

Like expand and contract of being in the

center, being able to be wise, being able

993

:

to trust and believe that my security, my

confidence, my self-awareness, my actual

994

:

like daily love in my life and my home and

my existence and all of these empowering

995

:

things that is what's at the center.

996

:

My agony and my trauma

and my most vulnerable

997

:

Ben: Blakely Blakely ca isn't

all the stuff that you just

998

:

listed at the center that is your

growth, that is your strength.

999

:

That is your power.

:

00:47:25,050 --> 00:47:29,210

despite all of the trauma, the

post-traumatic growth, you just,

:

00:47:29,651 --> 00:47:29,951

you.

:

00:47:30,171 --> 00:47:32,135

Blakely: And I mean,

I'm also in that because

:

00:47:32,135 --> 00:47:32,885

of it space.

:

00:47:33,785 --> 00:47:35,705

I have to understand that my life right.

:

00:47:35,705 --> 00:47:36,095

now is

:

00:47:36,190 --> 00:47:36,850

Ben: Yes.

:

00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:41,567

This is what you have been able

to make despite all that shit.

:

00:47:42,932 --> 00:47:45,242

Blakely: because this is

why I can trust myself.

:

00:47:45,382 --> 00:47:50,275

And that situation rocked every

layer of trust I had in me.

:

00:47:50,586 --> 00:47:54,216

The one thing that I had

actually trusted was me.

:

00:47:54,863 --> 00:47:56,513

I don't trust a lot of other people.

:

00:47:57,047 --> 00:48:04,348

So to be able to greet me with still with

the why bitch screaming like she does

:

00:48:04,777 --> 00:48:10,446

and with the, the little pissy one thrown

her tantrum and with the, oh God, the one

:

00:48:10,446 --> 00:48:13,206

that I probably hate the most, the one

that won't get outta the fucking corner.

:

00:48:13,296 --> 00:48:13,516

Ben: Oh,

:

00:48:13,826 --> 00:48:14,116

yeah.

:

00:48:14,766 --> 00:48:15,336

Blakely: That one.

:

00:48:15,626 --> 00:48:15,916

Ben: Yeah.

:

00:48:16,211 --> 00:48:17,076

Blakely: all here.

:

00:48:17,584 --> 00:48:23,145

And I'm sorry, but your amends email

doesn't make them go away still.

:

00:48:23,649 --> 00:48:24,129

I do that.

:

00:48:24,645 --> 00:48:26,025

I've done all of it so far.

:

00:48:26,313 --> 00:48:27,663

I don't need from you.

:

00:48:27,820 --> 00:48:28,960

You seem to need from

:

00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:29,410

Ben: Yeah.

:

00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:30,400

Blakely: again

:

00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:30,930

Ben: Yeah.

:

00:48:32,908 --> 00:48:38,423

Blakely: and, is the ultimate test

of this compassion shit meeting that.

:

00:48:38,863 --> 00:48:39,833

Ben: Meaning what?

:

00:48:40,346 --> 00:48:45,086

Blakely: Meeting that request

with like a fucking gift of

:

00:48:45,086 --> 00:48:46,916

compassion and a closed door.

:

00:48:47,424 --> 00:48:48,354

Is that an answer?

:

00:48:48,901 --> 00:48:52,141

Not that I owe it, but do

I even want to give it?

:

00:48:52,510 --> 00:48:54,461

I get the choice and that's

:

00:48:54,466 --> 00:48:57,136

Ben: The, my answer to you is no.

:

00:48:57,662 --> 00:49:03,046

Because I, what I hear you asking

is, do I meet that person for the

:

00:49:03,046 --> 00:49:05,336

meeting that they are asking for?

:

00:49:05,336 --> 00:49:08,786

And I say, no, that is not

what compassion is about.

:

00:49:09,731 --> 00:49:10,021

Like

:

00:49:10,419 --> 00:49:11,289

Blakely: hmm, hmm.

:

00:49:11,665 --> 00:49:13,712

Not even in that very specific structure.

:

00:49:14,043 --> 00:49:18,685

I'm just trying to decide in general

what energy I give back to this

:

00:49:18,893 --> 00:49:24,197

Ben: So I guess the frame of reference

I'm coming from is you are embodying

:

00:49:24,497 --> 00:49:28,097

compassion toward this right now.

:

00:49:28,535 --> 00:49:32,507

Like this is part of the energy

that you're putting toward it and.

:

00:49:33,842 --> 00:49:42,917

If you feel the need to feel your own

power in the presence of that person, if

:

00:49:42,917 --> 00:49:50,934

that's needed, I one, I question if it is,

but two, if you can't feel the power and

:

00:49:51,232 --> 00:50:00,678

conjure it and, and construct it on your

own with the thoughts and the emotions

:

00:50:00,768 --> 00:50:07,716

that you have, do being able to do that

in the midst of their presence as well is,

:

00:50:07,776 --> 00:50:11,016

is going to be very, very, very difficult.

:

00:50:11,700 --> 00:50:14,925

Blakely: Well 'cause the, the strength

of it all is just a big question.

:

00:50:14,930 --> 00:50:18,285

Like how we define strength

is complicated in a big sense.

:

00:50:18,583 --> 00:50:23,586

And so me, me being me, I have

to sit with for a little bit.

:

00:50:24,208 --> 00:50:30,853

The fact that it is not automatically

weak for me to protect myself

:

00:50:31,308 --> 00:50:32,118

and say

:

00:50:32,538 --> 00:50:33,138

no.

:

00:50:33,750 --> 00:50:34,980

But I also acknowledge that

:

00:50:34,985 --> 00:50:35,375

Ben: right.

:

00:50:35,375 --> 00:50:39,185

Because the sign of strength

is I can do anything.

:

00:50:39,815 --> 00:50:40,145

Yeah.

:

00:50:40,475 --> 00:50:40,865

I can

:

00:50:40,950 --> 00:50:41,220

Blakely: do it

:

00:50:41,375 --> 00:50:41,855

Ben: anything.

:

00:50:41,885 --> 00:50:42,305

Yeah.

:

00:50:43,138 --> 00:50:46,225

Blakely: because I can, and I,

my automatic answer is I can,

:

00:50:46,230 --> 00:50:47,245

but that doesn't mean I should.

:

00:50:47,856 --> 00:50:48,066

It doesn't

:

00:50:48,131 --> 00:50:49,241

Ben: How do you define, handle?

:

00:50:49,271 --> 00:50:50,471

Can you tolerate it?

:

00:50:50,501 --> 00:50:54,746

Can you come out of it

not losing yourself?

:

00:50:55,016 --> 00:50:57,956

Uh, maybe mostly, but you

:

00:50:57,956 --> 00:50:59,666

will get burned.

:

00:51:00,189 --> 00:51:01,749

Like, I don't know, like

:

00:51:01,929 --> 00:51:02,199

it's,

:

00:51:02,269 --> 00:51:02,329

Blakely: I'm,

:

00:51:02,379 --> 00:51:03,429

Ben: is like, there's the, there's

:

00:51:03,429 --> 00:51:05,799

this sense of tempting fate almost.

:

00:51:05,799 --> 00:51:09,189

Like let's, let's test myself peace.

:

00:51:09,369 --> 00:51:12,339

I don't know which part of you that

is, is If it's the one that's like

:

00:51:12,339 --> 00:51:15,489

complaining all the time or the one

that's screaming to the heavens, why?

:

00:51:15,849 --> 00:51:17,409

But like, I'm going, yeah.

:

00:51:17,409 --> 00:51:18,849

That needs some boundaries.

:

00:51:18,971 --> 00:51:19,991

That little one.

:

00:51:20,204 --> 00:51:21,224

No tantrums here.

:

00:51:21,254 --> 00:51:21,524

No.

:

00:51:21,524 --> 00:51:23,234

This needs to be intentional.

:

00:51:23,618 --> 00:51:24,428

No, no

:

00:51:24,428 --> 00:51:25,538

impulsivity here.

:

00:51:25,538 --> 00:51:26,498

No, that's

:

00:51:27,188 --> 00:51:27,638

shut.

:

00:51:27,938 --> 00:51:28,868

Thank you.

:

00:51:28,868 --> 00:51:29,858

I love you.

:

00:51:30,098 --> 00:51:31,658

Go sit down on the bench.

:

00:51:31,688 --> 00:51:32,318

Okay.

:

00:51:32,628 --> 00:51:34,788

We will call you when we need you.

:

00:51:35,491 --> 00:51:39,541

Blakely: Also, by chance I had, I

had just been in a little bit of a

:

00:51:39,571 --> 00:51:41,701

hyper-focused moment with some internal

:

00:51:41,701 --> 00:51:42,601

family system stuff.

:

00:51:43,900 --> 00:51:47,810

So add that to the convenience

of the coincidence of it all.

:

00:51:47,810 --> 00:51:51,650

Like I just had this awareness

already of some of my parts.

:

00:51:51,710 --> 00:51:52,010

Right.

:

00:51:52,242 --> 00:51:54,822

And how they, and it, you know, 'cause

it's one of those theories that I

:

00:51:54,822 --> 00:51:56,592

kind of like naturally am drawn to.

:

00:51:56,622 --> 00:51:57,582

'cause I kind of talk like that

:

00:51:57,722 --> 00:51:58,442

Ben: Yep, yep.

:

00:51:58,472 --> 00:51:58,712

yep.

:

00:51:59,022 --> 00:51:59,622

Blakely: whatever, whatever,

:

00:51:59,792 --> 00:52:03,212

Ben: It's very, uh, find the

synthesis between all the parts

:

00:52:03,358 --> 00:52:03,808

Blakely: Yeah.

:

00:52:03,903 --> 00:52:06,598

And I had already been kind

of sitting with a couple of

:

00:52:06,598 --> 00:52:08,523

those bitches that just Oh, oh

:

00:52:09,028 --> 00:52:09,268

gosh.

:

00:52:09,557 --> 00:52:10,157

I know, I know.

:

00:52:10,157 --> 00:52:12,107

I'm the head of the council, but, oh God.

:

00:52:12,352 --> 00:52:12,592

It's,

:

00:52:12,912 --> 00:52:13,812

they're challenging.

:

00:52:13,919 --> 00:52:16,409

I appreciate me and I'm challenged by me.

:

00:52:17,896 --> 00:52:22,598

The eight runs deep, and I am gonna look

to it for some wisdom at this moment.

:

00:52:22,838 --> 00:52:23,318

Please.

:

00:52:23,750 --> 00:52:26,360

Oh, should we look at what

hinders my personal development?

:

00:52:27,057 --> 00:52:27,357

Hmm.

:

00:52:27,477 --> 00:52:28,467

Or how I can further it?

:

00:52:30,262 --> 00:52:31,282

What makes me angry?

:

00:52:32,785 --> 00:52:35,245

I put my energy into

taking direct action and

:

00:52:35,245 --> 00:52:36,055

facing conflict.

:

00:52:36,313 --> 00:52:37,573

Protecting the weak and innocent.

:

00:52:37,993 --> 00:52:41,712

I mean that, that's the weird

thing, is there's an instinct to

:

00:52:41,712 --> 00:52:43,002

protect all of these, like.

:

00:52:43,083 --> 00:52:43,503

Ben: Mm-Hmm.

:

00:52:43,983 --> 00:52:46,872

Blakely: Weak bits and I don't know.

:

00:52:46,962 --> 00:52:50,085

Since I'm a kid, I'm always the person

that's like the standup to the bully

:

00:52:50,085 --> 00:52:54,410

person and then I end up with one and

I don't stand up for me, me, I'm the

:

00:52:54,410 --> 00:52:56,480

one person that I have not managed to

:

00:52:56,630 --> 00:53:00,385

Ben: Listen, I thought about this

earlier, but I didn't call it out,

:

00:53:00,385 --> 00:53:01,945

and I'm gonna call it out now.

:

00:53:02,590 --> 00:53:06,280

Is the one that's in the

corner that you hate the most.

:

00:53:06,663 --> 00:53:07,113

Yeah.

:

00:53:07,443 --> 00:53:08,493

And that's a bully.

:

00:53:08,852 --> 00:53:13,622

And I don't think that that person

who's in the corner, who's hurt in pain,

:

00:53:14,072 --> 00:53:18,992

who's not being acknowledged, who's

being called, you know, a weak laying or

:

00:53:19,697 --> 00:53:26,186

whatever other epitaphs you want to give

it, but like that part is not di it is not

:

00:53:26,186 --> 00:53:28,946

disconnected from the other parts of you.

:

00:53:29,371 --> 00:53:34,749

Like the pain that, that is hiding

in the corner, that's the one

:

00:53:35,171 --> 00:53:38,402

that I don't know that I, I feel

like that's the center of it all.

:

00:53:38,761 --> 00:53:44,020

That's, that's there is, there is

energy from pain that fuels the anger

:

00:53:44,264 --> 00:53:49,874

and also the impulsivity to find

answers in from sources that are

:

00:53:50,294 --> 00:53:53,294

superfluous who don't even fucking

:

00:53:53,424 --> 00:53:56,531

Blakely: Well that's that's the

other irritation is like you

:

00:53:56,531 --> 00:53:59,496

think, I haven't found some sort

of answer on my fucking own by now.

:

00:54:00,554 --> 00:54:03,404

What do you even think my life is now?

:

00:54:03,984 --> 00:54:05,184

Ben: I love that you're talking

:

00:54:05,184 --> 00:54:06,504

to your own bully right

:

00:54:06,504 --> 00:54:06,774

now.

:

00:54:06,919 --> 00:54:08,119

Blakely: she still weeps over

:

00:54:08,364 --> 00:54:08,754

Ben: Yeah.

:

00:54:08,814 --> 00:54:11,214

I love that you're talking

to your own bully right now.

:

00:54:13,743 --> 00:54:14,133

Blakely: well,

:

00:54:14,283 --> 00:54:15,973

Ben: What do you fucking think you need?

:

00:54:17,422 --> 00:54:17,692

Blakely: what

:

00:54:18,797 --> 00:54:19,017

Ben: Oh,

:

00:54:19,042 --> 00:54:20,062

Blakely: I gonna get from you?

:

00:54:20,818 --> 00:54:21,208

Not

:

00:54:21,373 --> 00:54:21,663

Ben: yeah.

:

00:54:22,439 --> 00:54:23,219

I love,

:

00:54:23,369 --> 00:54:24,029

I love

:

00:54:24,029 --> 00:54:24,269

this

:

00:54:24,429 --> 00:54:27,669

Blakely: the, like, the weak one

in the corner is a challenge for me

:

00:54:28,269 --> 00:54:28,779

anyway.

:

00:54:29,619 --> 00:54:33,849

And so to have made enough progress

to like, let her be in the room

:

00:54:33,849 --> 00:54:35,199

with the rest of us, basically,

:

00:54:35,309 --> 00:54:37,944

Ben: What's the, what's the Enneagram?

:

00:54:38,924 --> 00:54:44,264

Thing for you where it says what you,

your initial essence that you lost,

:

00:54:44,523 --> 00:54:46,173

because I feel like she's in the corner.

:

00:54:46,507 --> 00:54:48,397

I feel like she's the one in the corner.

:

00:54:48,591 --> 00:54:53,361

Blakely: I lost sight of everyone begins

in innocence coming freshly to each

:

00:54:53,366 --> 00:54:55,941

moment and everyone can sense the truth.

:

00:54:57,097 --> 00:54:58,717

couldn't, she fucked it up.

:

00:54:59,172 --> 00:55:00,882

Ben: No, no, she didn't.

:

00:55:00,882 --> 00:55:07,517

She chose a value that she could sense

that was different and it burned her.

:

00:55:09,312 --> 00:55:13,572

And to say that the other parts

of you didn't have some role in

:

00:55:13,572 --> 00:55:18,042

that is head in the sand energy.

:

00:55:19,870 --> 00:55:20,080

Blakely: Oh no.

:

00:55:20,085 --> 00:55:21,040

There were open buttons,

:

00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:27,565

Ben: And acceptance or

forgiveness in order to change.

:

00:55:28,270 --> 00:55:29,110

Or act.

:

00:55:29,359 --> 00:55:32,826

That's the synthesis here that

you can accept all those parts.

:

00:55:32,975 --> 00:55:34,865

Put boundaries around

where they need to be.

:

00:55:34,865 --> 00:55:40,617

Put boundaried and have a come to

honesty come to real is what we're

:

00:55:40,617 --> 00:55:45,897

talking about because the person in

the corner Yes, needs to get up, but

:

00:55:45,897 --> 00:55:51,791

also needs to feel safe to get up

the person that needs to sit down

:

00:55:51,791 --> 00:55:54,011

and shut the fuck up for a second.

:

00:55:54,611 --> 00:55:58,631

She also needs to feel like

she doesn't have to be so loud.

:

00:55:59,682 --> 00:56:02,712

Blakely: Well that's, I mean, I'm speaking

kind of snidely about it, but to come

:

00:56:02,956 --> 00:56:06,442

to the center far enough when I say

like, we let her in the room with us and

:

00:56:06,442 --> 00:56:07,822

she's willing to come into the room with

:

00:56:07,917 --> 00:56:08,337

Ben: right.

:

00:56:08,907 --> 00:56:10,917

No, it's not a very safe room to be in.

:

00:56:13,342 --> 00:56:14,272

Blakely: There are several of

:

00:56:14,362 --> 00:56:15,232

several of

:

00:56:15,297 --> 00:56:15,687

Ben: gonna get

:

00:56:15,982 --> 00:56:17,782

Blakely: are kinda shitty.

:

00:56:20,095 --> 00:56:20,335

Yeah.

:

00:56:20,335 --> 00:56:21,055

So for her to go,

:

00:56:21,085 --> 00:56:21,435

Ben: Uhhuh.

:

00:56:21,445 --> 00:56:22,105

Blakely: can I come in

:

00:56:22,915 --> 00:56:24,445

Ben: But see that's the

thing, that's the funny

:

00:56:24,445 --> 00:56:24,685

thing

:

00:56:24,685 --> 00:56:25,855

is like I really re, I

:

00:56:25,855 --> 00:56:27,025

really relate to her.

:

00:56:27,475 --> 00:56:31,915

I really relate to that, that

that little one because uh, I

:

00:56:31,915 --> 00:56:37,435

feel like I have gone through life

sensing the inner pain of people.

:

00:56:37,776 --> 00:56:39,396

Blakely: Well, and we're just

getting very close to the

:

00:56:39,396 --> 00:56:40,896

actual inner pain of this stuff.

:

00:56:41,254 --> 00:56:45,724

Ben: So when she enters that room, like

she is willing to not fight back, but

:

00:56:45,724 --> 00:56:48,274

she can see the real of all of you.

:

00:56:48,468 --> 00:56:49,908

She can see the bullshit.

:

00:56:51,289 --> 00:56:52,459

Blakely: but she doesn't,

I mean, she doesn't know

:

00:56:52,489 --> 00:56:57,268

Ben: That's why I can relate to her some

well, is I didn't know that until now.

:

00:56:57,560 --> 00:56:58,040

Blakely: Come on girl.

:

00:56:58,040 --> 00:56:58,610

You got what you need.

:

00:56:59,900 --> 00:57:00,740

We're all right here.

:

00:57:02,180 --> 00:57:02,840

We're all right here.

:

00:57:03,230 --> 00:57:03,585

We need,

:

00:57:08,820 --> 00:57:09,040

Ben: God.

:

00:57:10,910 --> 00:57:11,990

Blakely: uh oh.

:

00:57:12,140 --> 00:57:12,530

Yes.

:

00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:18,093

'cause we're also hitting like where I

have to take ownership is this person

:

00:57:18,183 --> 00:57:20,373

was a representative of a bunch of shit.

:

00:57:20,373 --> 00:57:20,733

That was

:

00:57:20,733 --> 00:57:21,993

just my shit already.

:

00:57:22,310 --> 00:57:22,520

Like I.

:

00:57:23,061 --> 00:57:28,971

My identity stuff, my body stuff,

my, like, I had like, the timing.

:

00:57:29,151 --> 00:57:29,301

I mean,

:

00:57:29,301 --> 00:57:34,104

it's at the time, like I was in that like,

uh, glowing beacon of come and find me

:

00:57:35,743 --> 00:57:37,028

and the

:

00:57:37,183 --> 00:57:37,363

the

:

00:57:37,363 --> 00:57:42,598

queerness of it and just the,

the intensity was beyond anything

:

00:57:43,258 --> 00:57:44,068

understood.

:

00:57:44,671 --> 00:57:46,692

And there's just a like, a queer factor to

:

00:57:46,692 --> 00:57:47,952

it that is hard to put words to

:

00:57:48,260 --> 00:57:53,202

of just being that I don't

know, little freaked out fat

:

00:57:53,202 --> 00:57:54,702

queer baby inside of me needed.

:

00:57:54,702 --> 00:57:54,972

what

:

00:57:55,622 --> 00:57:55,862

Ben: Yeah.

:

00:57:55,872 --> 00:57:56,502

Blakely: was at that time.

:

00:57:57,557 --> 00:57:57,977

Ben: Mm-Hmm.

:

00:57:58,242 --> 00:57:58,752

Blakely: It made me feel

:

00:57:58,752 --> 00:58:01,649

big and I play a part in that.

:

00:58:01,649 --> 00:58:04,739

I'm not entirely just victimized.

:

00:58:05,189 --> 00:58:06,029

It wasn't a drive by.

:

00:58:07,039 --> 00:58:12,589

Ben: I think that that's where there's,

for me, there's so much grace that

:

00:58:12,619 --> 00:58:20,719

flows from me that I want to give

to that because it's like, how could

:

00:58:20,719 --> 00:58:23,629

you have ever known the outcome?

:

00:58:23,869 --> 00:58:28,399

How could you have ever seen just when

you, like, exactly like you were saying,

:

00:58:28,404 --> 00:58:33,379

like earlier, like you keep reminding

me, uh, in a, in the funny way of like

:

00:58:33,379 --> 00:58:35,839

saying, Hey, you had what you need.

:

00:58:36,319 --> 00:58:39,704

You don't need something else, and.

:

00:58:40,834 --> 00:58:40,954

Y.

:

00:58:40,999 --> 00:58:41,539

Okay.

:

00:58:41,539 --> 00:58:43,699

Like logically cool.

:

00:58:43,789 --> 00:58:48,049

I could do the like thought

experiment and do the arithmetic

:

00:58:48,049 --> 00:58:49,729

of that and go, okay, thank you.

:

00:58:49,969 --> 00:58:51,799

You have come to the right answer.

:

00:58:52,999 --> 00:58:56,509

And so it's all theoretical and not lived.

:

00:58:56,869 --> 00:59:00,949

And to actually take the lived

experience of what you're talking

:

00:59:00,949 --> 00:59:06,498

about, just that thing of it made

me feel big, there's a sense of that

:

00:59:06,503 --> 00:59:11,804

where it's a response to feeling small

and that is something that you needed

:

00:59:12,221 --> 00:59:14,531

while also would not have ignored.

:

00:59:15,198 --> 00:59:15,558

Right?

:

00:59:16,011 --> 00:59:20,691

And so just the circumstances of it, it's

like, okay, there's gotta be some grace.

:

00:59:20,999 --> 00:59:25,679

There's gotta be some understanding of

that context to go forward with healing.

:

00:59:29,469 --> 00:59:29,529

Blakely: Yeah.

:

00:59:31,169 --> 00:59:33,719

Ben: And I think, I feel like

I'm talking to myself right now

:

00:59:33,719 --> 00:59:38,770

too, in, there's not really a way

I could have done this sooner.

:

00:59:39,059 --> 00:59:41,909

Like I don't see what

could have been different.

:

00:59:42,530 --> 00:59:45,440

this is what it is now and

I'm grateful for it now.

:

00:59:45,774 --> 00:59:46,669

Blakely: It just doesn't matter.

:

00:59:46,729 --> 00:59:47,119

There's so

:

00:59:47,124 --> 00:59:48,434

much reflecting of, oh,

:

00:59:48,810 --> 00:59:48,990

it could

:

00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:49,350

Ben: right.

:

00:59:49,565 --> 00:59:51,474

Blakely: but time doesn't

travel in reverse.

:

00:59:51,684 --> 00:59:54,804

There's not even a theoretical

concept for time travel in reverse.

:

00:59:55,104 --> 00:59:55,734

Only forward.

:

00:59:56,090 --> 00:59:58,160

We can speed it up, but

we can't slow it down.

:

00:59:58,427 --> 00:59:58,847

Speaking of

:

00:59:58,937 --> 01:00:01,732

Ben: Well, and even the physics of

it, I'm just even thinking about

:

01:00:01,732 --> 01:00:04,274

it like I'm doing my dissertation.

:

01:00:04,274 --> 01:00:08,780

Phenomenology is a big part of that

existence and time is a huge part of that.

:

01:00:09,001 --> 01:00:11,971

And our experience of

time is not a measurement.

:

01:00:12,141 --> 01:00:13,701

our experience of time.

:

01:00:13,950 --> 01:00:14,970

flows.

:

01:00:15,330 --> 01:00:16,080

Exactly.

:

01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:17,762

It flows right.

:

01:00:17,762 --> 01:00:20,582

I think you just pointed

out the A DHD factor.

:

01:00:20,662 --> 01:00:21,112

Uh,

:

01:00:21,347 --> 01:00:23,482

Blakely: I did a little bit,

I did remember when I was

:

01:00:23,607 --> 01:00:25,857

Ben: Yeah, exactly right.

:

01:00:25,917 --> 01:00:29,457

Like it either exists in my mind

or it doesn't exist in my mind.

:

01:00:29,978 --> 01:00:34,268

there's something that has

been attributed to Einstein.

:

01:00:34,958 --> 01:00:40,411

He's talking about the difference in, in

measuring time versus experiencing time.

:

01:00:40,411 --> 01:00:44,551

And it's like an hour with your

hand on a hot stove feels like

:

01:00:44,551 --> 01:00:49,771

an eternity, but an hour with a

pretty girl feels like a minute.

:

01:00:49,981 --> 01:00:54,391

Like in, in that, the way that

he's talking about that is like,

:

01:00:54,391 --> 01:00:57,451

just the regular time flies

when you're having fun, right?

:

01:00:57,501 --> 01:01:00,141

Time stands still when you're suffering.

:

01:01:00,311 --> 01:01:05,971

And that's just, that's the frame

of reference that I come to really

:

01:01:05,971 --> 01:01:06,721

value

:

01:01:06,836 --> 01:01:07,106

Blakely: of that.

:

01:01:07,315 --> 01:01:07,825

Ben: is like,

:

01:01:07,830 --> 01:01:08,995

yeah, that's really great.

:

01:01:09,290 --> 01:01:09,920

Blakely: Absolutely.

:

01:01:09,925 --> 01:01:12,290

Because time is an

illusion in so many ways.

:

01:01:12,740 --> 01:01:15,200

Like we've designed it

just like we had to have

:

01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:19,999

some structure, but even our emotional

experience of time waivers in which

:

01:01:20,154 --> 01:01:24,516

Ben: This is what I was really

hoping for in this season of

:

01:01:24,546 --> 01:01:26,256

like, self caring together.

:

01:01:26,671 --> 01:01:26,971

Yeah.

:

01:01:27,416 --> 01:01:27,746

Blakely: Hmm.

:

01:01:28,010 --> 01:01:32,073

I can't say this is what I was,

but I'm in acceptance mode.

:

01:01:32,313 --> 01:01:32,733

It's fine.

:

01:01:34,885 --> 01:01:36,175

Ben: I mean there's just, there's

:

01:01:36,175 --> 01:01:41,765

just so much, there's so much

that is wrapped up in, I.

:

01:01:42,013 --> 01:01:48,560

Our lives as professional helpers that

intertwines and gets really messy is

:

01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:55,641

that we have to use ourselves to become

a professional version of ourselves.

:

01:01:56,181 --> 01:02:05,918

To do things in a safe, ethical

and also uh, what's the word?

:

01:02:06,296 --> 01:02:07,316

The therapy room.

:

01:02:07,316 --> 01:02:09,656

The therapy space to me is a sanctuary.

:

01:02:09,656 --> 01:02:13,136

It is, it is, what's the

word that I'm trying to say?

:

01:02:13,706 --> 01:02:14,306

Sacred.

:

01:02:15,056 --> 01:02:15,776

It's sacred.

:

01:02:15,806 --> 01:02:21,026

And I think we, the, the majority

of folks that commit their time and

:

01:02:21,026 --> 01:02:25,721

their money and their life to doing

this work feel the same way, but.

:

01:02:26,325 --> 01:02:31,035

When it comes to supporting each

other, when it comes to supporting

:

01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:35,415

ourselves, when it comes to all

of that, we are so busy looking

:

01:02:35,415 --> 01:02:37,905

outward living for other people.

:

01:02:37,910 --> 01:02:40,095

We forget to live for ourselves.

:

01:02:40,215 --> 01:02:44,015

And that's what the whole self-care

stuff is trying to get at.

:

01:02:44,315 --> 01:02:50,555

But then it just, it, it, it

doesn't go far enough to who we are

:

01:02:51,365 --> 01:02:52,145

and

:

01:02:52,635 --> 01:02:52,875

Blakely: right.

:

01:02:53,155 --> 01:02:56,965

Ben: so it just feels like

bullshit or it feels selfish

:

01:02:58,225 --> 01:03:05,455

because starting with a task or a

coping skill or treating ourselves

:

01:03:05,455 --> 01:03:10,735

like an object, well, you just need

to go shine the outside a little.

:

01:03:10,885 --> 01:03:15,025

You just need to pamper it a little

and then look, it's polished.

:

01:03:15,025 --> 01:03:15,685

It's all good.

:

01:03:15,690 --> 01:03:15,955

Like,

:

01:03:16,105 --> 01:03:16,615

no.

:

01:03:17,690 --> 01:03:21,290

Blakely: Well, like even my example of

yoga on its surface, yoga is just what?

:

01:03:21,380 --> 01:03:22,070

It's whatever.

:

01:03:22,070 --> 01:03:26,390

It's a, you know, it's a culturally

appropriated activity I can do.

:

01:03:26,537 --> 01:03:26,927

Cool.

:

01:03:26,967 --> 01:03:27,857

But my.

:

01:03:28,077 --> 01:03:33,241

lived experience with yoga is

a, is a specific thing to me.

:

01:03:33,571 --> 01:03:36,541

So the task matters,

but my experience in it

:

01:03:36,931 --> 01:03:38,341

is what actually matters for me.

:

01:03:39,031 --> 01:03:39,991

I can prescribe

:

01:03:39,991 --> 01:03:42,331

everybody, go do it, but it

wouldn't be the, it wouldn't

:

01:03:42,411 --> 01:03:44,931

Ben: When you were talking about

yoga, I thought, oh, I could have just

:

01:03:44,931 --> 01:03:48,451

said, Hey, I need, I want you to go

do yoga for your self-care challenge.

:

01:03:48,756 --> 01:03:52,361

But I was, I, I was not as

clear, I was not as concrete

:

01:03:52,893 --> 01:03:53,113

and

:

01:03:53,737 --> 01:03:55,207

Blakely: Because I can

take a totally different

:

01:03:55,207 --> 01:03:56,647

spirit into that room and get a totally

:

01:03:56,761 --> 01:03:57,982

Ben: right, right.

:

01:03:58,913 --> 01:04:01,277

Blakely: So I It's that reverse, right?

:

01:04:01,277 --> 01:04:03,767

You set, you have the intention

and you find your way to the

:

01:04:04,307 --> 01:04:08,149

the action that ties to it instead

of trying to do an activity

:

01:04:08,149 --> 01:04:09,649

that'll, that'll shortcut you there.

:

01:04:10,403 --> 01:04:11,363

The, if you just,

:

01:04:11,635 --> 01:04:14,215

Ben: I don't know, maybe you did

your homework before we had that

:

01:04:14,215 --> 01:04:17,379

conversation and I didn't do my

homework, to think of something

:

01:04:17,379 --> 01:04:22,299

that would all have this captured

activity and spirit along with it.

:

01:04:22,809 --> 01:04:23,409

But like,

:

01:04:23,639 --> 01:04:24,209

Blakely: I know, But

:

01:04:24,209 --> 01:04:24,959

you know, my brain, it

:

01:04:25,119 --> 01:04:26,019

Ben: that's not my mind.

:

01:04:26,709 --> 01:04:27,519

That's not my mind.

:

01:04:27,999 --> 01:04:33,993

Where, yeah, I like you, you said

do improv, but the whole spirit

:

01:04:33,993 --> 01:04:36,423

of it was get out of yourself.

:

01:04:36,579 --> 01:04:39,849

Stop thinking and being, yeah.

:

01:04:39,879 --> 01:04:40,569

Participate.

:

01:04:40,999 --> 01:04:42,769

I don't know, like, I don't

:

01:04:42,774 --> 01:04:43,219

know.

:

01:04:43,309 --> 01:04:43,519

I

:

01:04:43,519 --> 01:04:44,089

haven't.

:

01:04:44,184 --> 01:04:45,324

Blakely: Oh God, it is.

:

01:04:45,324 --> 01:04:45,714

Get out of

:

01:04:45,714 --> 01:04:46,224

the corner.

:

01:04:46,434 --> 01:04:46,674

Oh,

:

01:04:46,674 --> 01:04:47,454

no.

:

01:04:49,344 --> 01:04:50,964

Oh no.

:

01:04:51,677 --> 01:04:52,307

Oh my God.

:

01:04:52,857 --> 01:04:57,267

Ben: you were giving yourself Oh, you, you

:

01:04:57,346 --> 01:04:58,157

Blakely: mind fuck.

:

01:04:58,197 --> 01:04:59,577

Ben: version of me.

:

01:04:59,932 --> 01:05:01,552

Blakely: Oh, but I didn't,

that's what I mean.

:

01:05:01,656 --> 01:05:02,736

Ben: Oh, that's

:

01:05:02,736 --> 01:05:03,396

sweet.

:

01:05:03,573 --> 01:05:04,761

Blakely: that are challenging for myself.

:

01:05:04,809 --> 01:05:05,199

Ben: Yeah.

:

01:05:05,286 --> 01:05:06,246

you were able to care

:

01:05:06,246 --> 01:05:06,696

for me

:

01:05:06,696 --> 01:05:08,766

like you weren't able

to care for her in the

:

01:05:08,766 --> 01:05:09,576

corner.

:

01:05:10,051 --> 01:05:11,306

Blakely: I don't cringe at other people

:

01:05:11,306 --> 01:05:12,386

the way I cringe at me.

:

01:05:12,571 --> 01:05:14,214

I just don't, especially, I don't know.

:

01:05:14,304 --> 01:05:15,266

Especially when The grace

:

01:05:15,366 --> 01:05:15,546

Ben: Yeah.

:

01:05:15,596 --> 01:05:15,836

Blakely: there.

:

01:05:16,230 --> 01:05:16,890

Ben: Ferdinand

:

01:05:16,954 --> 01:05:17,374

Blakely: Hmm.

:

01:05:17,473 --> 01:05:18,073

Ben: the grace

:

01:05:18,303 --> 01:05:18,543

Blakely: That's

:

01:05:18,543 --> 01:05:18,783

funny.

:

01:05:19,273 --> 01:05:19,963

Ben: The grace is

:

01:05:20,013 --> 01:05:20,253

Blakely: I did

:

01:05:20,253 --> 01:05:20,763

not know what

:

01:05:20,763 --> 01:05:23,133

I was doing and I may not have done it.

:

01:05:23,736 --> 01:05:24,026

yeah.

:

01:05:24,481 --> 01:05:25,261

That's a mind fuck.

:

01:05:25,441 --> 01:05:25,801

Okay.

:

01:05:26,319 --> 01:05:32,049

Ben: There's a part of me that is

mindful of the recording and I saw this

:

01:05:32,049 --> 01:05:39,330

week on Apple podcasts that we have,

25 followers that regularly listen,

:

01:05:39,435 --> 01:05:43,285

and I'm mindful of them at this time.

:

01:05:43,290 --> 01:05:46,825

I don't know who you are, but I'm

mindful of you listening to this.

:

01:05:47,284 --> 01:05:52,444

I don't think it's about as much

answers as is about the process.

:

01:05:52,633 --> 01:05:53,263

Blakely: And seeking

:

01:05:53,468 --> 01:05:53,918

Ben: Yeah.

:

01:05:54,419 --> 01:05:55,019

Blakely: more And, more

:

01:05:55,019 --> 01:05:55,469

value in the

:

01:05:55,734 --> 01:06:01,058

Ben: think we found value in each other,

and I think I have found an experiential

:

01:06:01,058 --> 01:06:08,621

sense of care and affection and

comfort that I can provide to myself.

:

01:06:08,621 --> 01:06:14,591

And I can, I can feel for you, and I'm,

I'm gesturing at you Blakely, but I'm

:

01:06:14,596 --> 01:06:20,381

also keeping in mind the i, I am also

feeling that for the people I am hoping.

:

01:06:20,698 --> 01:06:22,614

can also feel it as well.

:

01:06:22,614 --> 01:06:28,348

And this might feel like therapy almost,

but it's not like it, it is just, it is, I

:

01:06:28,348 --> 01:06:35,663

feel like our selves being real and being

in, in an exploration and in a journey

:

01:06:36,083 --> 01:06:38,408

Blakely: It's something, it's

something above and beyond that

:

01:06:38,408 --> 01:06:42,364

because it's the space that lives

where what we do and who we are and

:

01:06:42,369 --> 01:06:44,295

who we invite in

:

01:06:44,425 --> 01:06:44,775

Ben: Right,

:

01:06:45,014 --> 01:06:47,354

Blakely: beyond that outer shell.

:

01:06:47,537 --> 01:06:52,134

Where all of that comes together

is this little space, which I,

:

01:06:52,134 --> 01:06:55,769

don't, I'm not certain what it is

about me, but I feel more compelled.

:

01:06:56,272 --> 01:06:58,882

I feel more compelled

to do the harder things.

:

01:06:58,882 --> 01:07:00,055

If there's

:

01:07:00,060 --> 01:07:01,225

sort of a greater

:

01:07:01,225 --> 01:07:04,919

good, I'll throw myself

down on the gauntlet.

:

01:07:04,949 --> 01:07:09,424

If it means that we all get to have

something better on the other side,

:

01:07:10,469 --> 01:07:10,949

Ben: sure.

:

01:07:11,134 --> 01:07:11,524

Blakely: Right.

:

01:07:12,089 --> 01:07:12,389

Ben: Yeah.

:

01:07:12,812 --> 01:07:14,629

Blakely: And that's, that's.

:

01:07:15,616 --> 01:07:20,206

When I step back from it, I can be very,

very grateful for that space that is

:

01:07:20,596 --> 01:07:21,646

pushing me forward.

:

01:07:22,523 --> 01:07:26,499

' cause I'll do it for these stakes in

a way that I, I don't have the same

:

01:07:26,499 --> 01:07:27,969

motivation if it's just doing it to do it.

:

01:07:28,343 --> 01:07:28,793

Ben: Agreed.

:

01:07:29,063 --> 01:07:30,489

Same, Yeah.

:

01:07:31,209 --> 01:07:32,288

I'm grateful for you.

:

01:07:32,899 --> 01:07:33,199

Blakely: Yeah,

:

01:07:33,224 --> 01:07:33,704

Ben: Thank you

:

01:07:33,799 --> 01:07:33,949

Blakely: you.

:

01:07:33,954 --> 01:07:34,279

too.

:

01:07:35,112 --> 01:07:36,883

Ben: Thanks for listening

to my letter to me.

:

01:07:37,717 --> 01:07:37,987

Blakely: Yeah.

:

01:07:38,408 --> 01:07:40,118

Ben: That was harder than

I thought it would be,

:

01:07:40,717 --> 01:07:41,527

but I'm grateful.

:

01:07:41,562 --> 01:07:42,221

Blakely: can understand that.

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