Former crime reporter Valerie Osier interviewed two of RANGE’s reporters about local news gone national. She talked to Erin Sellers about their story on a restrictive Idaho law and the future of gender-affirming care nationwide, and the other Aaron about his easy-to-digest breakdown on the now viral Coeur d’Alene Town Hall that ended with men in black dragging a woman out of the building for voicing her dissenting views. Relevant reading:

•  Red states could preview gender-affirming care under Trump: An Idaho law banning state insurance from covering gender-affirming care could foreshadow a national ban on Medicaid spending for transgender care, by Erin Sellers
• A debrief of the now-infamous CDA town hall: A local extremism reporter’s guide to what happened in the viral video of a woman being dragged out of an Idaho town hall by a group of men with no official uniforms, by Aaron Hedge

Hey, it's Aaron.

2

This week on the pod, Val, other Aaron,

and I met up to chat through two important

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stories that dropped in range this week.

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The first is Seller's deeply reported

and deeply human story of how Idaho's

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ban on state funded gender affirming

care might herald a dark future

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for Washington's queer folks as the

federal government considers slashing

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its own funding for the same care.

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That story was picked up in

the national outlet, the 19th.

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Congrats, sellers.

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Second, I talk about running down

the facts behind a Republican town

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hall in Coeur d'Alene from which

a woman was violently dragged

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by private security guards.

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This is Free Range, a co

production of KYRS and Range Media.

14

This is Aaron Hedge.

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I'm here with other Aaron, Aaron Sellers,

and Valerie Osher, our managing editor.

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This is our first time having Val on in

a while and fun fact about Val, she is

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You're laughing because I, I warned her,

I gave her a little bit of a heads up.

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Val is one of the only people on

our team to have gone to J school

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and she was a crime reporter

out of California for a while.

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Excellent crime reporter.

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Thank you.

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Maybe arguably the best crime reporter

to ever come out of California.

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And today, Val's going to be dusting

off those old crime reporting skills

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and really digging into some news that

came out this week by interviewing both

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Hedge and I about our most recent pieces.

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Ooh, I think you guys gave me a lot

of credit, but you know, I'll take it.

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Deserved.

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Thank you.

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So first we're going to talk I know

we just talked about crime, we said

30

it a lot of times but first we're

going to start off with Aaron Sellers.

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We were going to start off with your

story on we just did a partnership with

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the 19th news, which is a national news

organization, not national nonprofit

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news org focused on gender or They're

focused on reproductive justice, LGBTQ

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issues, kind of anything that touches

like underrepresented groups in America.

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The 19th is a reference to the

19th amendment, which is the

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constitutional amendment that

gave women the right to vote.

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And it was established by, I think,

The publication was established by

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Emily Ramshaw, who was the former

editor of the Texas Monthly, and

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Wow, Head Gets Women History Points.

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I think, well, I did take a

women's studies course once.

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But it's a really excellent publication,

and Erin Sellers has a byline in it now.

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Yeah.

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Erin, you pitched this story

to the 19th, because we're

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part of their partner network.

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But it was, it was a secondary story or

like a follow up story to an original

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story about trans folks in Idaho.

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Can you tell me a little bit about

the first story that you did and

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then what led into the second story?

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Yeah.

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When we were brainstorming our election

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we were all kind of thinking about our

mission of like centering the most.

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impacted people and also ranges

unique position as a news outlet in

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arguably like a border community.

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We are right next to Idaho, we're

not too far from Canada and so I was.

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I grew up in Idaho.

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As a queer person, I left.

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Moved to Spokane.

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Never left.

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Love it here.

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Buying a house.

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Plan to be here for the rest of my life.

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But I was curious with the kind of

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in state wide and in nation wide politics

how queer people who called Idaho home,

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who's stayed there, who made that their

place, how they were thinking about

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national politics, statewide politics,

and their place in that as a group that

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kind of finds itself targeted in Idaho.

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So that was the first story.

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It came out.

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It was lovely.

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I ended up doing so many interviews

for that that Luke, our editor, was

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like, oh, we've got to turn this into

a series, otherwise this is going to

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be a 7, 000 word piece and nobody's

going to read to the end of that.

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And like two weeks after it came

out, I got a text from one of my

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sources, who I hadn't featured

super heavily in the first story.

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I think I only referenced him once.

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There was one line about like Avery Ellis,

a drag performer based out of Twin Falls.

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And he, he performs under the name

Tom from accounting, which is a

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detail I will never stop repeating.

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And he let me know that.

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He was no longer able to get his

gender affirming care in Idaho because

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of a state law that had been passed

and went into effect over the summer.

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And somehow he had been

slipping under the radar.

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He was still able to get his care

covered by state insurance, but on

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October 23rd, he texted me and he was

like, Hey, just in case this is useful

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for any followups, you write, I've hit

a snag, I can't get my care anymore.

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Mm hmm.

87

And then that, that.

88

But you'd be like, okay, I need

to follow up on this story.

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And we haven't done a series

yet with all those interviews.

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But this was one of those

stories that came out.

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And so, can you tell us about, so, Avery

Ellis they, they're a transgender man.

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Meaning he was assigned female at birth.

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And then he's, your story

said he's not from Idaho.

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So, how, where, I want to say

he grew up in the Midwest.

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I'd have to double check my notes.

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But I do know it was, I want to

say it was one of the Carolinas.

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And it was another red state.

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What even counts as the Midwest?

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It was a red state that had

similar restrictive laws to Idaho.

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And he moved to Idaho.

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And when he moved there,

he was not out as trans.

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He wasn't out as queer at all.

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He was just sort of like, I'm a big ally.

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I love my queer friends.

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And as he was able to participate

in what might be a surprisingly

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vibrant queer community in Twin

Falls, Idaho, he found himself.

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He transitioned, he found

a partner that he loves, he

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started doing drag performance.

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Like, he really came into

his own in Twin Falls.

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It's the place he, he loves.

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He calls it his home.

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And now it's become the place where he

can't access life saving, critically

113

important gender affirming care anymore.

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Your story says it's South Carolina, and

it was a bigger city that he moved from.

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Thank you for fact checking.

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It's just like, moved to a smaller town

in Idaho that is ostensibly more like,

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or less diverse, and probably more

conservative than, I mean, South Carolina

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is still pretty conservative, I think,

but Actually, I shouldn't say that, I

119

don't know, but But yeah, it's just like,

that's, that's a really interesting shift.

120

Yeah, and, when I got that

text in October, I wanted to

121

write that story immediately.

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But then, what, a week and a half

later, we have the national elections.

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And And then, I got sucked into other

things, and then the start of the new

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year comes, and we're hit with just a

barrage of executive orders, a lot of

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them targeting transgender people and

their access to care, and that is when

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we decided, like, okay, you'd been a I'd

been pottering along on this story, and

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now it becomes really important A, because

of some campaign promises that current

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President Donald Trump made to shut off

access to federal funds for states that

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require their state insurances to cover

gender affirming care, and B, just because

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they're, like, those campaign promises

paired with the, the quickness and the

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sheer amount of executive orders targeting

trans people and trans healthcare.

132

And at the heart of all of that,

that's getting litigated, like, a bunch

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of these are tied up in the courts.

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I mean, just today, we saw that the

military is now forcibly discharging

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all trans people, regardless

of whether they detransition.

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Anyone who has ever reported

having gender dysphoria is getting

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discharged from the military.

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But this is all happening so quick, right?

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And at the heart of this is, it's people.

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It's people like Avery.

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And so I wanted to make sure

that his story didn't get lost.

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And also I don't know how to put this

gracefully, but like maybe serves as

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a bit of a warning or foreshadowing

or a heads up as to what could

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be coming down the pipeline soon.

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Idaho shut off access to insurance and

that is what President Donald Trump said

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that he was planning to do in office.

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So even for folks who are like, let

me move to a blue sanctuary state

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like Washington where the state law

forbids insurances, whether they're

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private or state funded, from denying

access to gender affirming care.

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So, arguably, it's a pretty

great state to be trans in.

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And also, all of the federal funds,

because state insurance, sorry I'm

152

bouncing all over, but if you didn't

know, state insurance, like Apple Health

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in Washington, uses between 50 percent

and 90 percent of its funding, depending

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on the procedure come from federal

dollars, federal Medicaid dollars.

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All of that federal money could

potentially go away, which means the

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state would be on the hook now for paying

90 percent that it didn't pay before or

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50 percent that it didn't pay before.

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And Washington is broke right

now, so nobody, nobody knows

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what's going to happen with that.

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So I was trying to unwind all of

these threads and do it in a way

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that didn't lose the humans and the

people and the real life stakes.

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So, can you talk a little bit about,

like, so Avery is Idahoan and they had,

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or he had access to his gender affirming

care, which is testosterone shots?

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I think so, yeah, it's, he the

photographer got a picture of his bottle

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of testosterone that he would inject from.

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And So, and their healthcare

was through Medicaid.

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He was on state insurance.

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So again, it's like one of those things

where it's technically paid for by

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the state, but then the state gets

reimbursed through Medicaid dollars.

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And so Idaho.

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is one of 10 states that currently

does not allow you to use state

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funding for gender affirming care.

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Okay, and that is House Bill 668?

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Yes.

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Okay.

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And that bill is also

tied up in the courts.

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However, the specific way that it

got tied up protected access to

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care for the, I think, it's like

three or five trans people living in

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Idaho who signed on to that lawsuit.

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And so, for the people that signed

on to the lawsuit, they're able to

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continue accessing their care, but it

didn't put a blanket pause on the law.

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So, for people like Avery, who were

not signed on to that lawsuit, they

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now cannot get access to gender

affirming care paid for by the state.

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That's interesting.

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Yeah.

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It's like a weird kind of, it feels

like that kind of lawsuit is more

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of like a class action situation,

but I don't know enough about that.

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I am not a legal reporter, so I get a

little lost in that, and there have been

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other states that have tried similar

things to this, and some of those states,

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the, there are nine other states that

currently have these bans in effect.

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I did find reporting from I want to

say it was Missouri, but don't quote

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me on that, where they had tried

to pass something and their courts,

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their state courts shot it down.

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So it's one of those legal issues

with a lot of different precedents

195

that are developing as cases move

through state and federal court.

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But I don't have all of

that living in my head.

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I'm so sorry.

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I think, I think one of the, I

think the central point to that

199

though, is like, this is a.

200

An extremely like fluid situation

and there's a lot of like movement

201

in these stories and so it's hard

It's really hard to follow them.

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And I think that's like kind of part

of the point of the chaos There was a

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section in my story There was like three

paragraphs about executive orders and

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like where things are at that as we went

back and forth in the editing process

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Like I had to just keep perpetually

updating those paragraphs as to where

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those things stood, because it was

changing so much, even just as we were

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going back and forth on, on notes and

edits, both between the, the range

208

editing team and the 19th editing team.

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Yeah, I remember I like, kept

highlighting that section, like, it

210

was like, triple check, triple check.

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Is this still accurate?

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And in some cases it wasn't,

because things have been, it

213

has been the longest and fastest

two months of my life, I think.

214

Yeah.

215

So, a big part of this story was that

And the reason why we pitched it to the

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19th as a national story is that Eastern

Washington and Idaho, like, our area is I

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always call it like a microcosm of the U.

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S.

219

Like, we have, this blue dot

and a red C of Spokane City, and

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then, we have a lot of extremism

issues alt right issues in Idaho.

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And a big mix of, like,

rural versus city issues.

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And so, like, it's a really, good look

into, like, what the rest of the U.

223

S.

224

could look like under

a Trump administration.

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So, like, what did you find

that is, I guess, under threat?

226

with Washington, on the Washington

side, on the quote unquote safe side.

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Yeah, so, it's interesting because

we have a lot of state laws that

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enshrine protections for LGBTQ

plus people, and specifically

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for trans access to healthcare.

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I interviewed Senator Nicole Macri,

who is, I think, the chair of the LGBTQ

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caucus at the state legislative level.

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And, in a lot of ways, she was reassuring.

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She was like, it is in, like, it

is state law that your insurance

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has to pay for these things.

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So, even if federal funding turns off,

like, if that's like, water flowing

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through a shaft, and all of a sudden,

like, the water gets turned off, we're

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not getting the federal tap anymore.

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The state is still legally on the

hook for covering the cost of those

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gender affirming care procedures.

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However, and this is where it gets

tricky, Washington is in a couple

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billion dollar budget deficit.

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There's a lot of debate about

whether that number is 5 billion

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dollars or whether that number

is like 20 plus billion dollars.

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Cause projections are fluid.

245

But because Washington is in such a

budget deficit, it becomes A little

246

bit of a question of like, okay,

we're legally on the hook for that,

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but where's the money coming from?

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Who, like, if the state can't,

can't pay for it, or maybe the

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state has to pay for it because

like trans affirming healthcare is.

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State law, but maybe state law

doesn't say like, Oh, we have

251

to cover your diabetes medicine.

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So do they legally have to pull money

that was supposed to be covering

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that and directed towards this?

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There's a lot of like uncertainties

and Macri expressed that to me that

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like, we do have a line of defense.

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It wouldn't go away overnight

there, but a lot of things are in

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flux with the state budget deficit.

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And then also.

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With can, like if you look at national

congressional level, there was a bill

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passed through the house yesterday.

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It's not a law yet, I think it's

supposed to go through the senate,

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but that would mandate slashing

most of the federal Medicaid funds.

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regardless.

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So maybe it's not even going

to be a trans specific issue.

265

Maybe it's going to be a 90 percent of

Medicaid goes away overnight because

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Congress won't okay those funds anymore.

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And so that's what's really hard about

reporting on these things, because

268

we've got things that are technically

supposed to be enshrined protections.

269

We've got stuff moving at the state

level, moving at the federal level.

270

Moving in the president's office as

executive orders come out and people try

271

to decide if that's legal or not and I

think That's panic inducing, both for

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reporters who have to cover that, and

more so for trans people who are trying

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to figure out how long can I access my

care, where can I access my care, do

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I need to be stockpiling money, will

insurance cover it, will pharmacists

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prescribe it, like, what are things

going to look like in three months?

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There's a lot of uncertainty around,

like, reproductive healthcare, and,

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A lot of people with uteruses, are

wondering should I go get an IUD so

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that I at least have birth control

for the next five or ten years or

279

however long that IUD would last for.

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Personally, I'm like, should I be

stockpiling my birth control pills, it,

281

it's a scary time in general, like, it,

you mentioned, offhanded, and not like

282

this would happen, but like, state law

enshrines that we have to cover, or that

283

insurances have to cover trans affirming,

or, gen And I think reproductive care

284

is also enshrined in the same way.

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Okay.

286

It was a, not a trend, but like, they

were trying to Trump proof the state

287

in some ways, of like, and give birth.

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comfort to people who are like,

Oh no, what if the federal

289

government says X, Y, Z?

290

It's like, well, it

defaults to state rights.

291

We're going to enshrine this here.

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So I think both trans affirming

care and reproductive care are both

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enshrined in Washington state law.

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That's good to know.

295

Yeah.

296

Just not diabetes care.

297

I'm kidding.

298

Well, I pulled that example off It's

super possible that there is something

299

in state law that says like, you have to

be, like insurance has to provide care

300

that is mandatory for your, I don't know.

301

And also I just don't know where any

of this money is going to come from.

302

Yeah.

303

And there's, there's lots

of lines to this story.

304

I talked to, and, and like this,

this is, somewhat unrelated to it.

305

I mean, it's related, but it's

like, it's on a different plane of

306

what you, you've been reporting on.

307

I talked to Mae Griff Griffith,

who has a show on this radio

308

station who's out and about

309

Yeah, it's a, it's a great show.

310

It's, and she, she, she's

a trans woman veteran.

311

And she gets a treatment called

estradiol through the through the VA.

312

And we've, we've heard some things.

313

Estradiol?

314

She pronounced it estradiol.

315

Okay, nevermind.

316

That's how I said it.

317

Who knows how to pronounce any of these?

318

It's gender affirming care, and

it's probably gonna go away.

319

And Maeve is like, not super freaked

out about her situation, but, cause she

320

can get that on the market for like 8

bucks a month or something like that.

321

But she made this point, that

was like, it's not just, Trans

322

healthcare that's gonna go away.

323

It's everybody, like she said trans

people are the canary in the coal mine.

324

And she said this thing

that has stuck with me.

325

This administration, this is,

this is her opinion like, it's not

326

just coming after trans people.

327

They want to kill everyone and so,

yeah, it's like, it's gonna, it's gonna

328

expand out and have ripple effects.

329

I mean, like, and, and we don't know how

successful they're gonna be at it, but

330

like, they're not just coming after trans

people, and I just looked up Estradiol

331

because I, I've I knew that medication.

332

But it also can be used to treat

symptoms caused by menopause

333

or removal of the ovaries.

334

If you are a cisgender woman

it can also, it's just.

335

This is the Google overview, so, but

it says it also treats prostate and,

336

or can also treat prostate and breast

cancer and prevent osteoporosis.

337

And that kind of brings me to

a question I wanted to ask.

338

In your story, uh, about Avery you

were talking, there was a, a point

339

in time where he went to the pharmacy

to pick up his testosterone, and

340

and because of that law, the, the,

the whatever, House Bill 6 6 8?

341

6 6 8.

342

And the pharmacist asked

what's your, your gender?

343

Or your, your sex?

344

I don't remember which one.

345

But they asked, what's your gender?

346

And because it didn't match what

is on Avery's Medicare or Medicaid

347

paperwork, the pharmacist denied

or had to deny the testosterone.

348

But if they were a cisgender man

getting Testosterone prescribed to them

349

for also a gender affirming reason.

350

Like.

351

That would have been allowed.

352

Yes.

353

So, the bill specifically had language

in it that read that you couldn't

354

use Medicaid state insurance, quote,

for gender transition purposes, or

355

procedures, and it also said that any

treatment to affirm the individual's

356

perception of their sex in a way that is

inconsistent with their biological sex.

357

So, it's government legalese to say,

If you are a cisgender man who wants

358

to use testosterone because you've

lost your hair or because you are

359

struggling in a department, I'm not sure

I can say on the radio, that's fine.

360

You can do that.

361

You can get that prescription.

362

Medicaid will pay for it.

363

Your hair loss is important to us.

364

But if you are a trans person, you cannot

use this medication to affirm your gender.

365

And that's what's so

frustrating about it to me.

366

That like.

367

Avery had to disclose this information.

368

When you have a prescription at

the pharmacy, it is your doctor

369

saying this is medically necessary.

370

I have signed off on this

being medically necessary.

371

You should just be able to walk up to

the pharmacy, give your last name and

372

your birthday, and get your prescription.

373

But Avery was asked invasive questions

about his medical history and he had to

374

out himself as trans at the pharmacy.

375

And was then turned away from medication

that his doctor said was necessary.

376

Um, these policies are just cruel

and I probably can't say much more

377

on I am a journalist, so We can

point out right and wrong things.

378

That's my role.

379

Well, I think, that, that kind of like

Is now a good time to ask this question?

380

Yeah.

381

Yeah, I think, I think that, that,

that, what you just said, kinda

382

brings me to like, it's, to one of the

most beautiful lines in your story.

383

And you're talking about like when

this bill was passed, it was, it was

384

passed, this Idaho bill HB 6 6, 6 6 8.

385

Your, the line reads, Last October, Ellis

was left to wonder whether his state would

386

ever care for him like he cared for it.

387

And I think, some of the, some of the

folks you spoke with for your, for your

388

series really seem to love Idaho in a way.

389

That some in power in the state

don't seem to love them back.

390

And can you talk about, like, what

Avery said about this relationship

391

with Idaho and what it meant to him?

392

Yeah, it was I had three

total interviews with Avery.

393

The first I did over the summer

when he was still able to access

394

his gender affirming care.

395

The second I had over the phone with

him right after he was not able to

396

get his testosterone at the pharmacy.

397

And the third I had with him a couple

weeks before the story went live right

398

after Trump had been inaugurated.

399

And when I was writing this story

and going back through These three

400

different interviews, I honestly

cried in the office listening to

401

the difference in the way that Avery

was talking in the first interview.

402

There was a lot of, there was a

lot of hope and a lot of like,

403

dig my heels in, this is my state.

404

This is where I've found community.

405

All of the people I love are here.

406

I have found myself here.

407

I have like, yeah, things aren't great.

408

And sometimes, sometimes people say

things and the state legislature says

409

things about who I am that are just

incorrect and are wrong, but like, I'm

410

willing to dig my heels in and fight

and continue to build community here.

411

And the line I ended my story on.

412

It came from the most recent interview and

he said that, I'm poor, so my contingency

413

plan is based around what I can afford.

414

Even though it's scary living

in Idaho, I just don't have the

415

ability to move to a safer state.

416

This came after his therapist

recommended that he move for his own,

417

like, mental and physical health.

418

And he said it's left him with

an impossible choice, quote.

419

Buckle down and make a decision

on if I want to live out and proud

420

and be a beacon of hope or conceal

himself and go back in the closet.

421

And that's a wildly different

situation than he was talking

422

about being in over the summer.

423

I mean, I don't I don't feel the same way

about Idaho, but I feel that way about

424

Washington and being a transplant to

Washington and like finding myself and my

425

community and people I really love here.

426

And so, like, I can't imagine

going through all of that and

427

then not being accepted by my own.

428

My new hometown, mhm.

429

And Avery didn't say this, but

somebody else I interviewed

430

for that same first story did.

431

That like, They grew up in Idaho.

432

They'd been in Idaho their whole life,

and they talked about how, like, the

433

values that they grew up with were

about, like, minding your own business,

434

being a good neighbor, like, helping

people when they're in trouble.

435

Don't ask questions you

don't want the answers to.

436

Like, some old fashioned kind

of traditional values, but

437

mostly it was just, like, mind

your own side of the fence.

438

I want my independence.

439

Leave me alone to make my own decisions

and you make your own decisions.

440

And they talked about how, like, I

think they're in their late 20s now.

441

And just since 2015 ish, they'd

seen, like, a big shift in the state.

442

Being a lot more targeted and less like

personal freedoms and more like let me

443

regulate how you live your life because

I don't like it Yeah, and seeing that

444

shift That's been very jarring for

somebody who grew up there and came

445

out there and found their partner there

Did do your experiences reflect that?

446

As well, I, I remember growing up

there and I did not feel incredibly

447

accepted in like my high school.

448

I wasn't comfortable being out.

449

And then I went away to college and

I remember one of the first times I

450

came back to visit Idaho and we went

to the Dogwood Festival in Lewiston,

451

Idaho, where there's like local artists

and you celebrate the blooming of the

452

dogwood trees and you eat popcorn and

listen to music at the amphitheater

453

on one of the college campuses.

454

And I went with my family to just walk

around and I got so excited because

455

I saw like, I saw queer couples like

out holding hands public and I saw

456

people wearing, it's so millennial

cringe, but the like the shirts from.

457

Schitt's Creek.

458

This is a name.

459

This is a name, not a curse word.

460

The Panic Eyes, that is

the name of the TV show.

461

And it is spelled with a C H.

462

But they have this shirt that says,

like, I like the wine, not the label.

463

The one, the, the from David,

or like, Anyways, there was like

464

shirts of, of people who were like,

speaking out about their queer

465

identity, or about their allyship.

466

And I remember feeling really excited

that maybe things were getting

467

better, maybe things were changing.

468

And my brother was still in high

school and he told me that there

469

was like a lesbian couple in

high school for the first time.

470

And the first time that

either of us could remember.

471

I remember feeling really hopeful.

472

And then a couple years after that,

it just seemed like all of that

473

had, all that had gotten erased

and tensions had ratcheted up.

474

I don't really have anything incredibly

hopeful to say I'm trying to find a nice

475

way to end this segment so we can play

some, some sponsor clips and move on to

476

Hedge's interview, and I'm sorry that I

can't leave us on a hopeful note, but I

477

think things I, I, I mean, like, so I, I

have, like, this kind of parallels the, I

478

mean, the reproductive healthcare crisis

in Idaho, where, OBGYNs are leaving the

479

state, and so Like, the resources for

Idaho are growing thinner, like, and the

480

entire population is impacted by this.

481

And if people like Avery, if Avery

could leave, like if people like Avery

482

leave, that's going to leave the state.

483

Weaker too.

484

And Yeah, queer people aren't just queer.

485

They are also your plumber.

486

They are in the military.

487

They serve your dinner.

488

They work for your businesses.

489

We are part of the fabric of this nation.

490

And trying to scrub people out doesn't

do anything but weaken our foundations.

491

And there might not be anything helpful

to say about that but I hope that Avery

492

can find some solace and some peace.

493

A good place.

494

I don't know.

495

I mean, that's, yeah.

496

Okay, and on that note, We're going

to shift to another Idaho story.

497

Oh my gosh.

498

So much time spent on Idaho today.

499

The Idaho Show.

500

Hey, I like that.

501

Anyways.

502

We're rebranding.

503

So yeah, we're gonna It's tangentially

related, but it's a story that came

504

out of Coeur d'Alene and has gone viral

across social media and is even gaining

505

attention in the international press.

506

Hedge, can you tell us what happened

in Coeur d'Alene on Saturday?

507

Yeah, so if you, if you haven't heard

on Saturday, the the Kootenai County

508

Republican Central Committee hosted

this It, it was billed as a town hall

509

for, about eight or nine legislators,

state legislators to come and talk about

510

state policies that are coming down the

pike or already enshrined in state law

511

including to include the, the the trans

legislation or the gender affirming

512

care legislation that your story was

about, Aaron, or that it included.

513

And.

514

This town hall was held at the Coeur

d'Alene High School and I had a source

515

who, who told me the reason it was, like,

normally, normally these events are held

516

at churches I had a source who told me,

and I haven't confirmed this yet, but

517

one of the interesting notes about this

story is a source told me that, like,

518

one of the reasons it was held at the

high school was because the churches had

519

upped their their, Event venue rates.

520

what?

521

. And so they, the reason I've seen

cited is like, oh, some people

522

don't wanna mix their politics

and religion, but that's so funny.

523

I had no idea.

524

Well, and, and apparently, and apparently

some, some churches are like gonna,

525

gonna ratchet 'em back down for the,

the Casey or the K-K-K-C-R-C-C-K

526

County Republican Central Committee.

527

Anyway, so there was this event

at the Coeur d'Alene High School.

528

It was billed as a town hall.

529

The,

530

the The Republicans had applied to have

this event at the high school, and part

531

of the application is they basically have

to agree that it's going to be an event

532

that's held for the public, and with the,

just like, it's an event for everybody.

533

So, a lot of people showed up.

534

It was, it was, the, the auditorium

in, in the Coeur d'Alene High School

535

was essentially full, and they, Started

talking about legislation, and the

536

crowd grew, like, pretty raucous.

537

There were, there were, the conservative

folks who showed up were cheering for

538

conservative legislation, and the liberal

folks who showed up were booing it.

539

And there was this one character

there, her name is her name is Dr.

540

Theresa Borenpahl.

541

She's she's run for state office before.

542

She's a prominent person

who lives in Post Falls.

543

She's well known in the community.

544

She, she was one of the louder people

who were heckling the, the events.

545

And She People on the stage were saying

that people shouldn't be heckling.

546

They, they were, they were

fine with the cheers, but they

547

were not okay with the jeers.

548

And eventually Teresa said is this

a town hall or is it a lecture?

549

And when she said that the Kootenai County

Sheriff, Bob Norris, who was wearing, he

550

wasn't fully uniformed but he was wearing

a baseball cap that said, Kootenai County

551

Sheriff walked up the aisle to her and

beckoned for her to come out and said that

552

she was being kicked out of the event.

553

And she just ignored him.

554

And, and just like very very

pointedly continued to boo.

555

She was saying, boo, boo.

556

You can see it.

557

There's, there's video of it.

558

It's gone viral on the internet.

559

And, as she did that you can see, you can

see on the video Sheriff Norris becoming

560

very upset about this and he, he, he leans

in and he, he's like threatens to arrest

561

her and then he threatens to to pepper

spray her and escalated very quickly.

562

Yeah.

563

And she, and she's not,

she's not being violent.

564

She's just.

565

She's, she is being loud, but she's

But other people were also being loud.

566

There were lots of people being

very loud, yeah, on, on both sides.

567

And he grabs her by the wrist and,

like, tugs on her arm a little bit

568

and says, You're coming with me.

569

And she says to him, she says This isn't

a good idea, and as soon as she says

570

that, he lets her arm go, and he, like,

goes back out into the alley, er, into

571

the aisle, and he looks up the auditorium

at these guys who are standing nearby

572

in black jackets, and beckons for them

to come down, and he points at Teresa.

573

And they basically, like,

they approach her, and they're

574

like, you gotta come with us.

575

And she's like, I'm not going with you.

576

Do these guys have anything on their

jackets, or are they just plain jackets?

577

They're plain black jackets.

578

You can't see, there's no security

labeling or anything like that.

579

And they're wearing just like

blue jeans and cargo pants.

580

These guys are.

581

Doesn't look suspicious at all.

582

No, not at all.

583

And so she starts she uses some choice

phrases that I can't say on the radio.

584

She says, who the are you, and she, she

asks Sheriff Norris, like, if, if they're

585

his deputies, and he doesn't answer and

then she says to Sheriff Norris that

586

they're assaulting her because they, they

grab her by the arm and start dragging

587

her out into the, into the aisle.

588

And there's a scuffle that goes

on for, for several minutes, and

589

she, she bites back really Pretty

fiercely to get back to her seat.

590

And her shoes come off, and so

she's barefoot, and they, they

591

eventually, like, zip tie her and

drag her out of the auditorium.

592

And The person who's sitting next

to her Laura Tennison, who's her

593

friend shot video of this and posted

it to YouTube and Facebook, I think.

594

And it, It just went all

over the world very quickly.

595

The Australian picked it up.

596

The New York Times wrote a story about

it NBC Newsweek all had stories about it.

597

Just these, these guys who nobody knew who

they were and the folks I spoke with like

598

compared them to like Pinkerton agents.

599

Where did they take her?

600

Like they took her out to like, I'm

assuming maybe the, the breezeway of the

601

auditorium, or did they take her to jail?

602

They took her, so they took her out

into the hallway and her friend who I

603

spoke with Megan Koons brought her her

shoes and by the time she was able to

604

reach her She was, she was being, the

police, the Coeur d'Alene police were

605

on scene, and they were, they were

starting to investigate the, the incident,

606

the incident, and This is different

than the sheriff, just to be clear.

607

These are two different two different

agencies, even though it is, And none of

608

them are the ones who dragged her out.

609

And none of them are the

ones who dragged her out.

610

Yeah.

611

Yeah, and I think that that was

puzzling to some people, like, like,

612

if this were actually a law enforcement

matter, like, why are we having

613

these, these guys who apparently don't

Like, we don't know who they are.

614

So who are these guys?

615

I know you tracked them

down, and who hired them?

616

Well, so, it was quickly reported

in the press that, I guess you

617

didn't track them down, sorry.

618

Yeah, I mean, I tried to.

619

I tried to talk to them.

620

But they're employees of a company

called Lear Asset Management, which

621

is this private security firm that

does work with Kind of governments all

622

throughout the West, mostly in California

and they've surfaced in the news in

623

the last decade for having policed and

arrested people doing like pot grows

624

in Humboldt County and other regions.

625

Like, anti logging environmental,

like, protests in Northern California.

626

You could just arrest people.

627

They're like citizen arresting people.

628

Well, I guess, I guess arrest

probably, I guess arrest

629

probably isn't the right term.

630

They, like, so they detained, like,

there were, there were some protesters

631

in Humboldt County who were They were

protesting a proposed logging operation

632

and folks from Lear Asset Management

showed up and detained them and brought

633

them to the Humboldt County Sheriff.

634

And the Humboldt County Sheriff

are the agency that arrested them.

635

I was just about to ask that.

636

That is a really good question.

637

I'm googling that right now.

638

I saw the thing today that has been

making the news about this is like

639

an argument over Whether or not

these guys are actually hired or not.

640

Yeah.

641

Like, there's been a debate over

whether a contract existed between them.

642

There have been reports that there

was a contract, but for the price of

643

one dollar, to make them technically

contracted employees, which

644

might mean they could carry guns.

645

Oh my goodness.

646

Versus the fact that somebody

said they volunteered.

647

Brent Regan, the chairman of KCRCC,

originally said he had hired them.

648

There's been all of this back and forth,

but it seems like none of the reporting

649

I've read has been able to distinguish

exactly what is true because people are

650

saying many things, and sometimes the

same person is saying different things.

651

Well, and, and Megan Coon said that

she could see that they were Carrying

652

weapons under their under their jackets.

653

That's not confirmed.

654

I don't think there's supposed

to be guns in the school.

655

But yeah, that we we don't that a

lot of those details are unconfirmed.

656

Yeah.

657

So, so, Chairman Regan, Regan did tell

the spokesman that he hired this company.

658

There's a lot up in the air, and

they keep changing the story.

659

And then, like, later he

said that they volunteered.

660

Yeah.

661

He said two things, so.

662

And then, you also reported that

they're from California, right?

663

This company is based in California?

664

They have a license in California.

665

They and they have a license in Idaho.

666

Had a license in Idaho.

667

It was revoked.

668

After this incident.

669

Yeah.

670

Yeah.

671

And was it revoked in all of

Idaho or just in Coeur d'Alene?

672

How does that work?

673

It's, it's just Coeur d'Alene.

674

The, the Coeur d'Alene city pol I, I read

that the Police revoked it, but I, it,

675

some, some arm of the city revoked their,

their license to operate in Coeur d'Alene.

676

Okay, so there's the question

over, like, who hired these guys?

677

Were they volunteer?

678

What does that mean?

679

But there's also the debate over, like,

is this a public event or a private event?

680

Why is that a debate and

why does that matter?

681

Well, so, much of the criticism has

centered around the KCRCC and their

682

emcee a guy named Ed Bejarana, which

I'm not sure if I'm saying that right,

683

it's B E J E R A N A he's like a local

voice actor who, I don't know if he

684

was, and we don't know if he was hired

by the KCRCC to emcee the event or if

685

he's a member of the, of the party.

686

He's not on their website in any capacity.

687

I called his I called his phone number

that he has listed on his, on his

688

website and it said, due to a high

volume of spam phone calls we're, we're

689

discontinuing our voicemail service.

690

So I couldn't even leave him a message.

691

I did email him, but these folks,

the, the KCRCC and this guy, Ed We're

692

basically saying during the event,

like, you don't get to speak here.

693

To the people who were jeering

like, you don't have a voice here.

694

What did he call Teresa?

695

Didn't he call her something?

696

He called Teresa a little girl.

697

Mmm.

698

And one of the folks that I spoke

with said that she perceived

699

that to be, like, just, taking

away her agency as a human being.

700

Yeah, he was, I mean, like, I think

people perceived it as being very

701

condescending and But it's also, like,

a question of First Amendment rights.

702

Yeah, yeah, and I think that's what's

at the heart of it, the Coeur d'Alene

703

police chief Lee White, told The Coeur

d'Alene press that, this is like, this

704

is an event where people are allowed

to show up and express their views.

705

And even though it was raucous,

like, nobody was being violent.

706

It was, it was a, like, he sees it as

a public event, and I think the folks

707

that I spoke with see it that way, too.

708

Obviously, the KCRCC is, has said that

it's, it was, no, it was a private

709

event, even though on their application

with the school, they had affirmed

710

that it was going to be a public event.

711

So, there's a lot, I mean, there's

just a lot of inconsistencies.

712

So, like, at a private event,

the organizers of the event, have

713

more leeway to kind of police or

control what speech is allowed.

714

But at a public event, if I'm

understanding, correct me if I'm wrong

715

here, at a public event, it's more so

like Like, the city council meetings are

716

a public event, but because they have an

agenda and a plan and a specific direction

717

for when speech is allowed and what kind

of speech is allowed, like you can't go

718

to council and yell slurs or you'll get

kicked out like that allows them to kick

719

people out who are violating the rules.

720

But because this was a town hall without

an agenda and without clear rules around

721

what speech was and wasn't allowed.

722

Because they let people yell

affirmatives, they also have to let

723

people yell negatives, like Teresa was.

724

And if they try to control what

kind of speech is happening, or the

725

content of that speech, then it maybe

becomes a First Amendment violation?

726

Is that the argument

that's happening here?

727

I think so.

728

I think that's right.

729

And yeah, so these lawmakers who showed

up to this legislative town hall, like,

730

they weren't conducting public business.

731

They were there to talk about have, like,

have a values based discussion mm-hmm

732

. About these, these laws that were, that

were going to into effect in Idaho.

733

They, they weren't, they weren't

there to make, they weren't, it was

734

not part of the law making process.

735

Mm-hmm . And so, the argument is

people should have been allowed

736

to fully express their opinion.

737

Were there so what lawmakers were there?

738

Or elected officials.

739

That's, that is unclear in my reporting.

740

And I haven't read anywhere

exactly, like, who was there.

741

And, like, how lawmakers responded to

seeing a constituent get dragged down

742

the aisle by men in unmarked uniforms.

743

That's also unclear.

744

I didn't have time to

report that part out.

745

But it would be interesting to know

how, and I know that, like, one

746

of my, there was a guy Senator,

I'm forgetting his name right now.

747

Let me look it up.

748

So, Carl, Carl Bergerke.

749

Bergerke?

750

Yeah, and he represents, he represents

Coeur d'Alene in the state legislature.

751

And one of my, one of my sources

told me that she sent him an email

752

asking, like, if she can be truly

representative represented by him as

753

somebody who's, Has different viewpoints

in a charged environment like that.

754

And she hadn't heard back from

him by the time I talked to her.

755

I, for me, the scariest thing about

this, I mean, the free speech stuff

756

is scary, the, the actually getting

dragged out is scary, but like, just

757

the fact that, us as humans, like, this

woman got violently dragged out of a

758

public meeting with At least dozens

of people, maybe hundreds of people.

759

I don't know.

760

There were hundreds, hundreds of people

in there, and, and law enforcement

761

and these unmarked men dragged her

out and zip tied her like that.

762

What if they put her in a car?

763

Like, I've been watching way too

much true crime recently, and

764

like, that's where my mind goes.

765

And so, I think it's it gets to a

really scary place in where we are

766

politically, or in our political

environment that this is happening.

767

And I think that's why this story has

reached as far as it's gone, is because

768

it almost seems like a, I don't, I

don't want to say it's like a sign of

769

things to come because I really hope

it's not, but like, what can you say

770

about those kinds of worries, Hedge?

771

And maybe the sheriff's involvement

here as well, because I feel

772

like that kind of interplays.

773

Yeah.

774

I think it, I think it's, I think it

comes down to like, being able to discern

775

between who is there, who, who is, who is

policing an event in, an official public

776

capacity as, like, Like, how do you tell

the difference between police who are

777

paid for with public dollars, who are

there to represent everybody, and, and

778

there's obviously, like, huge problems

with, with that industry as well, and how

779

do you tell the difference between them

and just, like, essentially, like, Private

780

security goons who show up and like,

just like start, like, detaining people.

781

And yeah, like, who knows, who

knows, could it go farther?

782

We don't know.

783

I mean People knew who the, the

sheriff says that he was not

784

there in any official capacity.

785

He wasn't wearing his uniform,

but he was wearing a hat that

786

identified him as a sheriff.

787

And he was directing these

men to grab her, like he waved

788

them over, he talked to them.

789

And I guess I, I wonder about that as

like, did people think, oh she's being

790

officially arrested because the sheriff

is telling these guys to do it and I don't

791

want to get in trouble with the cops.

792

Well, and I think that's one of

the questions that Teresa herself

793

had, and she voiced it very loudly.

794

She said, are these your

deputies, Sheriff Norris?

795

And he wouldn't respond to that.

796

He wouldn't respond to that?

797

He didn't say anything.

798

He just videotaped the

thing with his phone.

799

I didn't notice that detail.

800

That was so interesting.

801

Yeah.

802

Well, we have two minutes left.

803

We have, don't we have

to start to close out?

804

Yeah, we, it close out at 355.

805

Oh, just kidding.

806

We can keep talking.

807

You can answer one more question.

808

What do you think is more important,

details on Lear and Paul Truett

809

or stuff about Brad and Ishii?

810

And what can you say in two minutes?

811

Well, alright, I'll

talk about Paul Truett.

812

Paul Truett is he's the guy

who owns Lear Asset Management.

813

And, very interestingly, he had surfaced

at a Coeur d'Alene City Hall meeting

814

about a year ago, I think it was I

think it was June 18th of last year,

815

to protest the city implementing laws

that would require private security,

816

which, and these laws, these, these

rules did get implemented into city code.

817

Rules that say, that Private

security has to be, like, clearly

818

identified on their uniforms.

819

And that is the rule that they were

violating, the rule that they got

820

their license pulled for when they

were at this event, because they

821

didn't have any identifying clothing.

822

Not violently dragging a woman.

823

And zip tying hair, got it.

824

Yep, and just black jackets.

825

Yep.

826

Their outfits were wrong.

827

Basically, yep.

828

Crimes against fashion.

829

And also maybe the First

Amendment, possibly.

830

Possibly.

831

Okay.

832

Well, this is Free Range, a weekly news

and public affairs program presented

833

by Range Media and produced by Range

Media and KYRS Community Radio.

834

We'll see you next week.

835

Bye.