Reflecting on the projected 68% increase in unsheltered individuals by 2028, what strategic measures should be prioritized to prevent this increase?

In part 2 of our two-part series on housing insecurity, we explore how low vacancy rates and high rent increases exacerbate the problem, and discuss the innovative strategies both organizations employ to tackle the issue.

Kenneth Wilson continues his conversation with guests Elizabeth Brown, President & CEO of the YWCA, and Shannon Isom, President & CEO of the Community Shelter Board.

You'll hear personal anecdotes, from Elizabeth's city council campaign experiences to Shannon's passion for jazz and community-centered philanthropy.

Whether it's about providing permanent supportive housing for women or the need for long-term systemic changes, today's conversation is packed with valuable insights and heartfelt stories.

Key Moments

00:00 Countywide homelessness linked to interconnected community responsibilities.

04:15 Suburbs experiencing homelessness, housing instability for women.

09:49 Philanthropy is essential for community sustainability.

11:36 Stakeholders seek outcomes of 18-month assessment.

17:09 Data shows 68% increase in homelessness.

19:22 Exponential rise in families needing shelter help.

22:35 HUD definitions require chronically homeless individuals with disabilities.

27:30 Pleasant surprise discovering diversity and internal tools.

30:51 CSB is special, surprising, and a gem.

32:36 Tentative date for August; focus on goals.

37:07 County conversation: heavy topics, fun facts.

Top Takeaways

Both guests highlight that homelessness is indeed a significant issue in suburban areas of Franklin County, driven by factors like low vacancy rates and increasing rents.

Fundraising is crucial for the YWCA and Community Shelter Board to continue their vital work in housing, childcare, and social justice, as well as supporting scholarships and other benevolent activities.

Philanthropy plays a pivotal role in filling the gaps where public resources fall short, ensuring the community can address complex societal issues effectively.

Personal sacrifices are made by leaders in public service.

The increasing demand for shelter services over the past 20 years necessitates long-term solutions and sufficient funding, as current resources are inadequate.

YWCA's supportive housing serves women who have experienced chronic homelessness and disabilities, offering stability, security, and tailored support services.

An upcoming summit aims to review and optimize the homelessness system, involving various stakeholders to develop a regional plan for addressing the issue.

Both the YWCA and Community Shelter Board rely heavily on volunteers. Elizabeth Brown and Shannon TL Isom encouraged listeners to get involved through their respective organizations' websites.

Addressing homelessness requires strategic planning and a clear roadmap.

talkofthecounty@franklincountyohio.gov

Copyright 2024 Franklin County Board of Commissioners

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Is homelessness a problem in our suburban communities? We have 17 cities, 17 townships and eight villages in Franklin County. I think I got that right. It can be that homelessness is a problem in the county, supports it, which represents every resident every day. And the city of Columbus, what about the other 16 municipalities, 17 townships and eight villages? I'm asking the question, do you all think that homelessness is a problem in our suburban communities? And if you say it's nothing, why do you think that is?

Well, I think that it is. I think that Shannon sees the system level data more than I do. I do know that people show up from a lot of different zip codes out of the city of. Outside the city of Columbus, in our shelter. And I also think that if you look at, again, this idea that prosperity often creates, these conditions of wanting to, in our lower income families, have a frayed net to fall through. That happens all over the county. And there are some very prosperous enclaves where maybe housing prices are high enough from the start that it is not affecting a particular neighborhood because they can weather the ups and downs. But I do not think that there is a community that is untouched.

I also think in our county, I don't think there's a community that's untouched by homelessness, because I also think that we truly are woven together. Any community that exists in this county relies in part on their neighbor's health and the health of the folks that might serve them coffee when they go to breakfast in the morning, the health of downtown business districts. We truly are all connected. And so I would say the third thing I would add to that is that the more that some communities would close themselves off to folks along the income spectrum, the more that they create the homelessness that happens in another place. So if homelessness sort of occurs in some zip codes, is it not the problem of the other zip codes who shut their doors and partly created that? And it's harder to follow that dotted line, but we are not ignorant to the fact that that is there and that we all should take part in the solution.

That's right. Yeah. From a system perspective, I do get to see the data and administrator. I'm gonna follow you into the arena. And what I do know about an arena is you may get bloodied, but I'm gonna follow you in.

I knew where I was going.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. I'm gonna take a little bit from what Liz said, what we. What we know, and we have the direct data points to show, is that we hover around about 15% to 17% of our homelessness that's not within our county. That then comes and shows up in our county. That number fluctuates quarter by quarter as we look at it, but at times it goes up and down. So if that's the case for the contiguous counties, I am positive that we would have the equal amount of movement within our county, our county footprint. So, yes, it does happen. Secondly, two factors that cause homelessness that we're clear about, low vacancy rates and high rent increases.

We can look at many suburbs and note both of those things are happening outside of the city of Columbus. And if both of those factors are in play, we know that that is for some, then we also know that that is an indicator for homelessness and that homelessness is probably showing up in a system that is centralized in Columbus. So, yes, I believe that suburbs are having it. And then thirdly, we also know that there are big contributors to the destabilization of housing. Not yet homeless, but some factors that cause destabilization of housing for women. It is actually, if you're single, having a child moves you very quickly into poverty. We have people that have children all over the place, identified by many zip codes. Secondly, you have life that happens.

That could be a medical insult or it could be divorce. Destabilization of those things happen in every community. We also know that there's transient poverty. That happens when you're transitioning from one point of life to another, college to your first job, job to job. If you lose employment, those things also happen regardless of zip codes. So it is nice to kind of archetype poverty as the progenitor of homelessness. But I would tell you it is more around the insult of destabilization of housing, which happens in all communities. That is the contributor for homelessness.

Situations happen.

Yes.

How critical is fundraising for your respective organizations and fulfilling its mission? And talking to county listeners, you can make a donation to the community shelter board or the YWCA, for sure, if you've been touched by anything you've heard so far in this podcast.

That's right. That's right. Fundraising is critical to our organization across, really, all of our pillars of work. So we are a housing agency. We have permanent supportive housing, and we have the family center. Both of those require philanthropy to do the great work that we do. We also provide childcare, early childhood education, as well as before and after school care. I will emphasize, when it comes to childcare work there is.

Ohio has a really low eligibility rate for qualifying for child care, which I know, you know, administrator will, what is.

It, 49th or 48th day?

We are, I think, what it is, I'm gonna try to get this exactly right. I think we are 49th in eligibility rate at 140 something percent federal poverty line, 142, I think. But then we are also 49th in reimbursement rate, which combined to make us ranked last in access to affordable childcare. Right. Cause the reimbursement the provider gets to provide the care, combined with the low, the very low income families need to access it. And, you know, we do really high quality work that we have some families pay, you know, private pay. Cause we serve families of all incomes. We have some families who are qualified for publicly funded childcare.

There is a, for lack of a better description, a very large doughnut hole between those two things. And we want every family to be able to afford the services that we provide. So it's very important for us to raise money for our education programming so that we can provide scholarships to families to access that. If they don't make enough to pay private tuition, but they don't make little enough for the state to recognize them as in need. So it's a critical part of our work, our leadership and social justice work, also. Similarly, we rely on philanthropy to really propel that. It's a hugely important part of YWC's footprint in this community. Our mission is eliminating racism and empowering women.

And our social justice work is, as I call it, the soul of our organization. It is what sets YWS apart across the nation from any other organization. So, without philanthropy, none of that work would move forward. Certainly, it wouldn't be able to move forward together under, I think, this beautiful umbrella of actually doing the work to eliminate racism and empower women.

Thank you.

What I really love about philanthropy that sometimes gets missed as we're doing the business of philanthropy is that philanthropy, which really centers on the love of man or the love of humankind, is really the centering of it, of the benevolence of community. And so although. And we talk about it a lot within our partner relationships, although it is imperative that we have enough resources to solve these problems, it is also equally as obligatory, I believe, for communities to be reminded of their benevolence. I think it's important because there are things that come up in the human condition that government and some other public entities just cannot tackle without the will of loving human beings. Right. Loving your neighbor. So I love philanthropy because of that. It reminds us of who we are in the other respect.

It reminds us of who we are when there is lack as well as I'm walking into this space and really centered on getting the diversity of our financial sustainability. Right. Right for the county, right for the city, right for our partners, right for our community members that utilize our resources and should depend on those resources. Philanthropy is essential. And I'm going to just cut it a little bit by saying that. And it is equally as essential that the philanthropy of benevolence is for those folks who are working 24 hours a day, 365 days, in places like the YW and other on our behalf, on all of our behalf. And then there is a level of what I'm going to call the business philanthropy that, you know, the community shelter board, from a system perspective, a sustainability perspective, is also trying to make sure that we are having as an essential part of our sustainability.

Miss Eisem, the community assessment on homelessness is a very important initiative that has been underway for some time now. Can you touch on what the main objectives are of this assessment and what inspired this assessment? And why is it important for the future of Columbus and Franklin County?

I can. Let me first very quickly talk about what inspired it. I believe our stakeholders were inspired to ask for the assessment to ensure that full disclosure.

Okay, thank you. I didn't want to talk to the county listeners.

I don't want to call you out. So one of our stakeholders who asked for the assessment is the county. Certainly the business community as well as the city walked alongside the county with that exact same request. It is important, and it is important the outcomes of this 18 month assessment to all of us, to Franklin county, to the city and to our partners, I will be quite honest to CSB as well, is because it allows us to know exactly what I believe the assessment is doing. Are we optimized for a community that is growing in leaps and bounds such as ours? Do we have, are we all depending on a system that is readied, that is agile, that has the right partners, that is engaging with the right instruments to ensure that we're able to tackle homelessness? And then third, I would say, what are the right measures to make sure that we're all on the same page of not only what the goals are, but if we've reached some of those milestones of excellence and outcomes, those are the big things in which this assessment is looking at. The assessment is going well. I must tell you, I am gleeful it is coming to an end, mostly because I both think you both can appreciate it is hard being assessed and being audited and reviewed and evaluated, and we've been doing it for 18 months. I am also really gleeful, because it's going to come at the exact same time in which I came here.

And so it's going to offer what I hope is a collective voice roadmap on what we know will be our challenges, but more importantly, our opportunities ahead of us. And then, thirdly, that it is imperative, and I think we all want it here and those that are listening, an optimized system that respects and gives dignity to our community members, all community members, and I believe it is tackling all of those things. So, by September, we will not only have our final draft of that, but we are planning a summit. And potentially, we'll have many of you speaking as part of that steering committee of what is next, what we will do next.

I believe that it's always important to, if you don't have one, develop the best roadmap you can to get to where you want to go. If you don't know how you're going to get the gas to get there. But many times in public life, we do work, and we don't have a roadmap, and nor do we know how much gas we need to get there. And we're constantly seeking gas to go someplace where we don't really know if that's ultimately where we want to be. So, more and more, and when I'm in audiences and we're tackling problems, and we touched on this during this podcast, planning is so valuable. People use the word strategic planning. People use different words. But if you don't have a plan and you don't update your plan, you in a constant state of chaos.

Because even with a plan you both know, as high level nonprofit executives, things are gonna happen that you didn't predict. So you gotta call audibles along the way, you gotta adjust along the way. But you need to plan. You need to always plan. You need to evaluate your plans. You need to write them down. You need to have a team around you that's disciplined and focused on that plan. And everyone understands their role in getting there.

Even you're gonna have a naysayer in the backseat. They gotta roll to second guessing everything. Everybody has a key piece, but you gotta have a plan, and it has to be a team. You know, even as leaders, we say, okay, we're in charge, we're driving the bus, but you better listen to somebody along the way if the journey got any length to it, or you gonna run into problems.

Yep.

So, I mean, I think that there's so much value in this assessment, because this community has been proud of what it's been able to do. It's put tremendous resources into what we've done. But you just. At some point in time, you have to look under the hood. You have to look into yourself. And it's difficult for us to look at systems that we've defended. It's easy to just say, I'm offend the status quo. I'm offend the status quo.

But at some point, you got to be willing to look at change. You know, people talk about the value of change agents.

Yeah.

Because you need to look at things. And that brings me to one of the things that really kind of shook me is the predictive model in this assessment indicates a potential 68% increase in the number of unsheltered individuals by 2028 if status quo program continues.

It's interesting, and I'm inviting Liz into this as well, because there's the data, and then there is the how we feel that data. Right. And as I am, that 68% increase that we're going to see within now four years, because it was a five year predictive model going all the way up to 85% of unsheltered homelessness within five years. Going all the way up, because we will have every bed accounted for, our homeless shelters, our emergency family shed, all of them will be full. I agree with you. It was timely for those that called for us to evaluate our system. It was equally as important that although we knew that we were growing, we probably didn't know how close we were to the precipice of turning into potentially having a class of homeless population. And that is a precarious situation to be in.

We are going to have to make really tough and quick, intentional choices around our resources, important choices around our resources, because we are, I think. I think, if you don't mind me saying, administrator, closer than we all thought. Now, this is me coming in to. I would tell you that I do know that some of the nonprofit leadership that lives this every day, that is not only grappling with the community members in which that they're serving, but also the staff that are serving them, would probably tell you, oh, that five years is close, but that sounds about right to what we're filling. And that what we also know, administrators, that the administrator Wilson is at the. That dollar seems to not be able to be stretched and as useful as it used to be even two or three years ago. And so, yes, I am equally as nervous for us and the owner and the purveyor of how are we going to solve this?

Yeah, I mean, I will just add, underscore all of that and just add that as shelter provider. When I look at that number, it does feel not shocking. It feels hard to see, but not entirely shocking, given the exponential rise in families needing our help and how long they need our help over the course of since our shelter has been opened, which is almost 20 years, really exponential. And I will add that when I saw that number, I'm just being honest. Part of what sat with me is that, oh, well, that's a low ball, because that assumes that we're going to do everything we're doing now for the next five years. And actually, we're not funded to do everything we do now that, you know, the american rescue plan dollars run out, and we are actually not funded to continue doing what we're doing right now. And so that number is the floor of the problem. And I don't want to find out what the ceiling looks like, but I think it is scary for our community and time to think really big and really differently about the multifaceted solution.

I hear some folks say, well, the only way you solve homelessness is by building housing. And yes, that is one of the most powerful instruments and tools we have for solving homelessness, but that is something we have to pursue while not giving up on the people today who are suffering, who won't be able to make it to that solution if, you know, given the long range planning that it takes to do that. And there is also, I think, just a level of precariousness that a prosperous city has on low income individuals that we have to be prepared and ready for so that the system can handle that. And even while affordable housing is being right sized for our community, also, the response needed on the front end when someone is in crisis is also right sized, and that's the only way that we can contain.

Okay, that leads me, Miss Byrne, my next question. How many individuals or families typically spend a substantial amount of time in your permanent housing units?

So our permanent supportive housing, which is different from our emergency shelter, it's the building that we're in. We have 91 units here, and we are usually about 100% full. There's always a unit turning over the women. It's single women who live here in our women's residency program, in our historic Griswold building. The women who we serve are in our program, permanent supportive housing, sort of. We follow HUD guidelines, HUD definitions, in order to get that support. It's a project based voucher site with CMHA, and we get continuum of care funding as well, through HUD and CSB. And so we have close to 91 women at all times.

And they are, because we're following HUD definitions, they've all been chronically homeless, which means three months of documented homelessness along with some level of disability, whether that's behavioral health, mental health, physical health. And so they come to us having confronted a lot in their lives with a heavy backpack on every one of them. What we hear after they're here roundly is, my life is saved. Right? I am so happy. And they still have a lot that they're unpacking from that heavy backpack. The work is ongoing when they're here, but they have that first ingredient, which is housing. And you contrast that with the experience of the families who are in emergency shelter, just about 200 a night, that give or take, given on a number of, you know, family size. They are not able to unpack that backpack, not even close, because they are still experiencing the trauma of being unhoused.

And this huge difference between the security that our women feel because they get to walk in this building and they know they have an apartment to go back to, despite everything they're coming in with. And the contrast to the experience that our families get to have in the shelter, all the while being served with the highest quality care, I like to underscore, but the difference in those conditions is vast.

If an individual checked in tomorrow into a supportive housing unit, what would a typical day be like? What services and programs are available to them?

So a new woman who checks into our building, we have, again, the support of wonderful philanthropic partners who help to make that check in expense nice. So we have things like welcome baskets. We have partnerships to help make sure that a woman can furnish her apartment. She's not going to be coming with much. So there is a lot of that welcoming that first greets her. She is also assigned a case manager, a service coordinator, we call them. Our service coordinators are fantastic and work on an individual level with each woman to understand, based on her needs, what services we should connect them to. Our service coordinators are not themselves a licensed mental health care professional.

Right. But they work to understand. All right, do you want to get into counseling? Okay. You want to quit drinking or you are trying to control a cigarette habit? I mean, that happens where a woman comes and she says, I realize I don't want to be smoking anymore. And we can actually set her up with Columbus Public health and a smoking cessation program. Right. Something as basic as that all the way to some major behavioral health issues. If she like also any kind of medical care that is needed, we help make sure that she is matched up with the resources she needs.

So that is on sort of the care and stabilization side. And then we are a community here. So we have engagement specialists as well who help to make sure that our community is uplifting and empowering. So if you came through our back door, which I know you didn't, administrator Wilson, but had you, you would have walked through a 4 July celebration that is happening right now as we're filming where our service coordinators and engagement specialists and our women's residency team got a dj, they grilled out, they shut down the parking lot. They have cornhole out there. The women are dancing. A lot of the staff is dancing, to be quite honest, which was really fun for me. That just happens to be happening today.

There are also paint and sip circles, not with wine. There are self love groups that one of our engagement specialists have that are really beautiful. And I could go on and on about the intricacies of each of these programs that we provide to help add community to this building as well as care.

That leads me to my next question. Miss Brown, what have you found in this job that has been the most pleasant surprise, and what have you found in this job to be the greatest challenge? That you say, oh my. And studying this job upside down and going through the vetting process and taking the position and the pump and circumstance, and then you get in your office and you go, okay.

All right. Well, the most pleasant surprise, honestly, has been the I knew the diversity of our programs when I walked in, but I don't think I understood so deeply how many tools we have internally to live out our mission. We have, our social justice arm is out there doing leadership development all focused around how to be social change agents in your own community. That is expertise, that lives in house, that we use then as an organization to be better social change agents ourselves, a better social change agent organization. Our social justice team has, they're certified in restorative practices, so they really take a restorative approach to conflict or harm in the workplace, which as an employer, you know, I wish there were no conflict and harm in the workplace, but there is, you can't get around it. We have the tools to take care of our people and it has been a joy to help figure out how to actually bring that to bear on the organization and whether it is, you know, orchestrating a better interaction with a resident every single time between resident and staff, or orchestrating a way to mitigate, you know, harm that's happened in the workplace. It's been a beautiful thing. I absolutely adore it, I would say.

And I love a lot of things. A lot of things are up there competing for number one. But for the sake of time, I'll leave it up.

She just gave a few.

Right, right. I could go on and on, but I will just pivot to. I think the hardest part is the funding of the homelessness system. I really do. And I'm not just saying that because we're talking about it so much on this podcast here today, but because of the track we're on in our community, because the assessment bears out that track we're on. And I also see the reality of what it takes to operate an emergency shelter on a daily basis. It's very challenging. It is something I close my door and close my eyes and think, okay, what is the next step?

Thank you.

Yeah.

Okay. Same question?

Same question. Okay. I think the most wonderful thing that has surprised me is what a gem community shelter board is for this community. I think it is for those of you all who have lived with it for such a long time, and excuse my forwardness, you may be taking this thing for granted. This funding agency that gets to that was crafted, really, by some business leaders and then aligned with the county seat. To think every single solitary moment of every day of our most vulnerable population. I think that is so special of this community. I think it's so kind of this community, and it is a reflection of not only your history, but your right now.

And in the movement of trying to figure out what CSB is and was and being recruited, it wasn't explained to me how special this is. And it's special as an added, we're only one of 14 communities that has this. And I think that that is certainly a number to hang your hat on. But the more that I sit with people with expectation and with feedback, which I view as an expectation to do better, really, then is then the hope also that I think is reflective of this community. So that that's been a surprise for me. It's a gem. What's the hardest is I'll piggyback what Liz said. The hardest is that trying to explain and buff in real time how beautiful this gym is and so that it can shine bright and compel all of us who are at the table to compel us to hold it in regard while keeping it accountable for its shining bright.

So I, without being a little too hokey about that, that is probably the hardest thing, is just how do we sustain.

You have a community summit coming up on August 15. Can you talk about what are some of the key goals of this community summit on homelessness and what outcomes you're hoping to achieve?

Administrator, I appreciate you asking the question. We're having a tentative date held for August 15, still making sure that we're lining up some of our attendees and important speakers for that day. But the ultimate goal is, number one, is to release, to review, and to talk about the assessment that is the number one goal. Number two goal, I will tell you that I'm really equally as excited about, is that the community shelter board had some repair, some reparation work to do within community. This will also be a time in which their voices will be able to be aligned with some of the work that the evaluators have done in alignment with the county and the city of what was being asked. And then thirdly, what we're hoping to have is exactly what you said is, how do we amplify a plan that the entire, the entire region, more specifically our county seat and partners, will be able to stack hands on and say that we're going to get done.

My next question revolves around volunteerism. What role do volunteers play in your respective organization's efforts?

Volunteers are indispensable for YWCA, and they have been throughout our 138 year existence. Today, the role that volunteers play is largely in partnership with our housing programs. So I mentioned something like a welcome basket that our women get when they move in. There are all kinds of other ways that volunteers help our women's residency program. And at the family center, we rely on volunteers to provide meals on a regular basis. And that represents an important philanthropic piece for our organization, too, because it helps us, cost wise, our volunteers, we have volunteers come for any meal of the day. It doesn't mean that every day volunteers are doing all three meals, but it is a really important part of, I think, the friendly environment, too, that the family center tries to create for its residents. And they are a huge part of our mission and we value them dearly.

So if anyone is listening and wants to volunteer, they can go onto our website, ydbsaccolumbus.org, and you will see a button to volunteer. Thanks for allowing me that plug, administrator. You teed it up.

I'm trying. I'm trying. I'm trying. I'm trying.

We use volunteers much less as a system that funds our partners that are doing the everyday work. I want to make sure that I'm amplifying their needs. And so, although we have times in which we volunteer. We are volunteering in those partnerships and being placed exactly where they would have us. A couple of ways in which I want to make sure that I'm centering the way the community shelter board uses volunteers is through money. So the more money that is given to us, the better. In that volunteering spirit, it goes and is able to be funded through our nonprofit partners. And then if you're showing up wanting to volunteer, we would refer them.

How does one, can one donate on your website? If they go to the CSB website, they make a donation.

Absolutely. And I just want to make that distinction that although we definitely do fundraising and depend very heavily on fundraising, that fundraising is utilized to be dispersed out into the community for our partner relationships. There is some of those unrestricted dollars that allows us to do things like pilots and programs that we maybe are just thinking about or want to test out or try. It certainly supports some of those roles like mine, that would need unrestricted funding. But for the most part, I would say that anyone that wants to donate to the community shelter board should have also our partners in mind.

On talking to county. Some of our topics are more heavier than others. And I would say that today's conversation has been a heavy conversation, but an important conversation. Because one of my goals of talking to county is to put all the important issues out there at some point in time and talk to all of the dedicated people we have in all the different fields of life here in Franklin county. So we have to talk about heavy topics sometimes. And this topic has been heavy, but I'm going to put us in the spinner right now and change this up as we close out. And I want each of you to provide the listeners of talk of the county with a fun fact regarding yourselves. And also, you may have plenty of different songs on your playlist, on your streaming device.

Give us just one song that it could be something that you listening to right now or something you used to listen to and put down. But we want to leave on a lighter note and give the listener something.

Fun fact about myself for my organization.

About yourself? No, this is about Elizabeth Brown.

Fun fact about myself. Oh gosh, I hate these. Let me see here. Well, I will start with answering the song question. Okay, so I typically am just like the DJ for my children. And so every time that Spotify does like Spotify raft at the end of the year, it is like 94% Taylor Swift. And then like my son occasionally gets his way and he is so funny. He's like green day and imagine dragons and a little bit of Rolling Stones.

He's all, this man is six years old.

He's six. But he all over the place.

He's all over the place. If I were just choosing my own tunes, I would alternate between Jay Z and Tori Amos, who are my all time favorite, too. And you really should, you know, two are up together. That would be interesting. But a fun fact about myself is that so when I had my first child, Carolyn, I was in the middle of a campaign for city council, and I, I really did not know what, like, motherhood was gonna give me in those first few days and didn't ask anyone's advice, but promised when I was eight months pregnant that I would show up at a debate after she was born. That was, you know, she was born two weeks before election day. And I was like, oh, I'll be fine for this debate on, you know, October whatever. And so I was three days postpartum and I decided to go to this debate, and it was a poor decision, and I ended up leaving 45 minutes in.

So if we really want to question anyone's debate performance, you know, the person who leaves halfway through is certainly should deserve our mockery.

Sometimes, you know, I can't say anything wrong with getting up out of there if it ain't going.

Boy, you gave me a lot of time to think. I love music, and I would. I'm trying to think. My favorite, Nina Savmon is by far my favorite. I listen to a lot of jazz. Probably four women or blackbird are probably my top favorites. But I love, love, love. Probably the sixties is probably my favorite genre.

And I listen to a lot of sixties, to seventies bands and singers. If I think about a song I probably just listened to in my car just now was probably Erica Badu's pick your afro, which, you know, I'm a big neo soul person, too.

That's more common. You better call Tyrone.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So. But I love music. I love, I love, I love, I love music.

Fun fact.

It's tougher. I probably, I'll give two the probably not so fun fact. But what would be maybe interesting is I am a lover of history. And so I love going to thrift store kind of bookstores, and I can read all about the presidents and stuff like that. Probably something no one would really think about me. But that is fun for me. But the funniest fact is that I like to dance and not a good dancer.

All right.

You like that better? Yeah, I love that. Okay, we're going to keep out there, Shannon.

We're going to keep this going. We're going to keep this going because this is a two part series. I already know it. We're going to keep this going, and I'm going to give a whole new meaning. Asking you all the question of whether you are surf or turf, it means. And the reason I'm asking this question is if you had your pick, would you be by, would you be on the beach or in the mountains?

Beach. Beach.

Beach. So we're gonna close it out. We got three beaches over mountains, clear blue water, fishbowl lifestyle. So it has been an excellent conversation here with Miss Brown and Miss Isom. Again, it was a heavy but important topic, discussing the issue of homelessness and finding solutions and understanding the challenges, yet being optimistic and having hope that we will do even better in Franklin county because we are the best county in the United States of America. So in closing out this episode of Talk of the county, I'm going to close with my parting words. Do you, because nobody else has time to.