This episode dives into detail exploring a case study on herbal support following trauma. Learn about potential herbal and nutritional options for Tom:

Tom (he/him) has recently left prison. He is on prescribed methadone but is trying to reduce the amount he takes and ideally come off it but is struggling with withdrawal symptoms. He isn’t on any other medication. He has terrible stomach cramps and night sweats. He can hardly sleep because of so much anxiety and restlessness. He is scared to sleep because of recurring nightmares of time spent in segregation. When asked about diet, he eats mostly fast food and isn’t a confident cook and doesn’t have much money right now.

Links & resources from this episode

• Herbalism, PTSD and Traumatic Stress Course

Find them all at solidarityapothecary.org/podcast/

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Welcome to the Frontline Herbalism podcast with your host Nicole Rose from the Solidarity Apothecary.

This is your place for all things plants and liberation.

Let's get started.

Hello, welcome back to the Frontline Herbalism podcast.

This episode is part of a series with some case studies about people who have worked with plant medicine to support their nervous systems and recover from kind of traumatic experiences.

Yeah, they are kind of part of the herbalism PTSD and traumatic stress cause and yeah, people are encouraged to have a think before they listen to this about what they would recommend for someone, what kind of herbal recommendations, what nutritional recommendations, what kind of collective responses to traumatic stress might be supportive of the person.

And it's just a kind of like way to.

Implement some of the learning and yeah, yeah, like the course doesn't have any like assessments or exams or anything like that.

I wanted it to be spacious and liberating for people, but.

I think these case studies are a good kind of exercise to make you think about herbal actions and different types of nervines, like herbs with an affinity for the nervous system.

Okay, so yeah, I'm gonna share the first one in shortly that I've pre recorded and there's going to be four more after this over the next few days.

And I just want to shamelessly plug again, the Herbalism, PTSD and Traumatic Stress course is open for enrolment at the moment, I'm going to be closing it hopefully next week, I really am aiming for Wednesday, but it depends on the next few podcast I wanted to get these out as part of promoting the course and encouraging people to sign up for it, whether you're someone who's interested.

Experienced a lot of trauma or distress or struggle with PTSD or maybe you are herbalist and you are passionate about herbal medicine and you want to support other people.

I just, yeah, I just thought these case studies bring this knowledge to life because, it can maybe feel a bit intangible about what is the role of plant medicine in this world right now?

And I know things are yeah, incredibly heavy as ever out there.

Okay, so yeah, please I hope you enjoy it, really interested to hear people's feedback and yeah, take care.

Thanks.

All right, let's get started.

So yeah, like I said in the introduction these are Loosely based on various people I've supported over the years, but they're not like specific to one person like this person isn't real.

But it's just to get you thinking about how everything, how you can apply the learning from the herbalism PTSD and traumatic stress cause.

Okay, so I'll read it out.

Tom, he, him has recently left prison.

He's on prescribed methadone, but is trying to reduce the amount he takes and ideally come off it, but is struggling with withdrawal symptoms.

Okay.

He isn't on any other medication.

He has terrible stomach cramps and night sweats.

He can hardly sleep because of so much anxiety and restlessness.

He is scared to sleep because of recurring nightmares of time spent in segregation.

When asked about diet, he eats mostly fast food and isn't a confident cook and doesn't have much money right now.

So yeah, the framework that I introduced in the course, which is like how I tend to approach working with a client is looking at obviously like medication and allergies just to rule out certain plants and think about drug effects.

I don't expect you to think about stuff like that from the course.

Sleep is like always my highest kind of clinical priority.

Nervous system state, and obviously all of these linked together, they can't be separated like neatly out.

Digestion, nutrition, and inflammation.

So those are the kind of main areas of focus that I like to focus on.

explore with people that I'm supporting.

So medication and allergies.

So yeah, Tom is taking methadone.

So if people don't know what methadone is, it's a kind of replacement for heroin and for other opiates.

And it means that you don't have it's meant to mean that you don't You're like maintained without going into like withdrawal symptoms So it can like the language is like hold you And it is has been created to prevent people from using kind of street heroin By being able to access a methadone script you can then be prescribed this kind of opiate based medicine And it's meant to be, and obviously when it's prescribed, it's like generally much safer.

It's not, cut with other things or illicit.

It's standardized, but yeah, unfortunately not everyone absorbs it well or consistently, especially if you have got issues.

So it is meant to quote unquote hold you, but it doesn't always.

So people might be on a methadone script, but still be experiencing really hardcore withdrawal symptoms.

Likewise, they might be on a script that they're not stable on and they might, for example, be titrating down.

So they might be reducing like five mil a week or something in the community, which can also trigger withdrawal symptoms.

So yeah, it's yeah, just thinking about choosing herbs that aren't gonna interact with the methadone, that aren't going to make it metabolized faster in the body or add to the level of hardcore drowsiness, if that makes sense.

So yeah, one of the herbs we'll definitely want to avoid is St.

John's Wort because of how it can yeah, quicken the kind of clearance of various medications in the liver.

So that would affect the methadone and enhance the withdrawal symptoms.

Okay, sleep.

So Tom's experiencing a lack of sleep.

He's experiencing anxiety and restlessness as well as night sweats and recurring nightmares.

So it's worth saying that all of these are a kind of often a symptom of withdrawal.

So yeah, that's it.

It's about managing expectations as a herbalist in terms of what herbs can offer support.

Yeah, and often I found people that use drugs or have a hard, have a lot of history of using drugs are often not as, are like less sensitive to plant medicines, if that makes sense.

So like they're sensitive to them like emotionally, but in terms of like physical consequences, I find that it's like, yeah, it's not always, it's like difficult with dosage.

Okay, so in terms of restlessness some of the plants talked about in the course include linden which is like lime tree flower so that's like specifically indicated for restless legs and also for night sweats, it's like diaphoretic.

Motherwort is also prescribed for restlessness and passionflower and I'll talk a bit more about passionflower in a second, but yeah, in terms of recurring nightmares.

Thinking again, just the herbs talked about in the course we might be thinking of betony and its affinity with nightmares.

It's got this relationship with the kind of head as supporting with headaches and migraines.

Vervain is also traditionally associated with nightmares and I, Personally, I have no founding to this opinion, but I think it's because of its affinity with the liver.

And I think a lot of nightmares are like liver related in terms of like inflammation and food intolerances and toxicity and stuff.

Yeah, we might want to consider nutrient deficiencies when it comes to sleep.

So in my herbalism herbal support for nightmares episode, I talk about this in more detail of like Vitamins and minerals that affect our sleep significantly and magnesium is definitely top of the list and vitamin D And if Tom has been in prison, then both of these are like extremely likely to be deficient Like it's hard enough eating some bougie lush organic diet to get enough magnesium so I think it's very likely.

I tend to give clients like a spray or recommend they get a spray or have things like Epsom salts bath.

You can obviously get supplements too, but it is quite effective in terms of it's like transdermal absorption and vitamin D.

It's well known that It's like very difficult to get appropriate levels of vitamin D in this kind of like UK climate and Tom's been in prison.

So prisoners experience like a really high level of deficiencies when it comes to vitamin D, which could affect someone's sleep.

So I would, yeah, definitely be thinking of those.

Okay.

And then, yeah, there's going to be crossover here with the nervous system plants, but in terms of the sleep, I always think about the desired herbal actions that we're seeking, right?

Something I talk about in the course.

So we're going to be thinking about relaxants like nirvine relaxants.

We're going to be thinking about kind of sedative nirvines and our goals are to increase sleep quality and quantity.

So yeah, what kind of herbs have we got as options?

Nirvines like in these.

In these sort of case study episodes, I'm not going to be like, okay, we're going to have 20 percent of this herb and 20 percent of this herb in a formula.

I'm just like talking through different options.

And I hope the course gives people this excuse me, like this impression that there's like a lot of options, right?

There's like a whole menu of like plant medicines that are possible in terms of support, which sometimes is like really frustrating when you're herbless.

Cause it's just Oh, the complexity when I was teaching the practical medicine making course, it's every question requires like a 10 minute answer of but this, and then it depends on the constitution and then blah, blah, blah, blah.

So yeah, similar disclaimers here.

But yeah, herbs that I would be thinking about that we introduced in the course in detail would include skullcap.

I think would be a wonderful herb for Tom because it is Fantastic in terms of it's like tropho restorative action in terms of supporting the tone and structure of the nervous system and helping the myelin sheath and it's full of B vitamins and yeah, I would recommend that as like a, as a tea before bed.

Obviously you've got to be careful with someone on methadone that they could be like quite sedated.

In general, but like most people take methadone in the morning and it holds them until the next day So I don't think you know, like I wouldn't give him skullcap to take in the blood You know at 9 a.

m.

When he takes his methadone, for example, like that would be too much in terms of tranquilizing effect But for the nights when he's like potentially getting these withdrawal symptoms I think it would be a good time to take Skullcap is also Wonderful for nightmares.

And yeah, some of the other symptoms that he's talked about like night sweats and stuff.

They'll be helpful.

Lavender.

So again, I talk about this in the course, like we always want to start with our most like gentle options.

It doesn't mean that any less potent.

And I think lavender is like so underestimated as like a support for sleep.

So this infused lavender oil I've banged on about loads is just like absolutely wonderful in terms of, massaging into the neck or the temples, you can also get a lavender tincture as well and lavender and tea, like you could have some of the skull like a tea blend would be really lovely with a bit of lavender in it.

I think it's very soothing for the nervous system and I think it would give him that kind of access to parasympathetic time, familiarity without that feeling knocked out feeling.

Whereas something like wild lettuce, which I've also put on my list, is, I've talked about it in the Herbal Allies for Grief section, it's like much stronger.

It's a kind of hypnotic nerve vine, like it will act as like a strong sedative, but for someone like Tom, other herbs might not be able to touch the sides, for example, so he might benefit from something like wild lettuce, like I've seen firsthand the kind of devastating impacts of insomnia induced by methadone and my partner and close friends like Taylor and stuff, and it leading to psychotic episodes and things.

So I think.

Yeah, if you, if things like lavender or skullcap or chamomile aren't working, then yeah, I would definitely try some wild lettuce in the night times.

Yeah, and I've also included chamomile, again, super underestimated, amazing herb, gentle sedative Tom's got all sorts of gastrointestinal issues as well, so I think Oh, have I included that?

Let me check.

Yeah, stomach cramps and night sweats.

So it's if he's struggling to sleep because of stomach cramps, then chamomile could be the difference between not being woken up with a stomach cramp.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Lemon balm, again I think it's more like uplifting rather than a nighttime herb, but I think yeah, as a kind of nervous system relaxant.

I'll talk about it in the nervous system section, actually.

Okay.

And yeah, I've talked about lime flower, like I think that linden, it could be useful as again, maybe potentially like part of a tea blend.

Yeah.

Passion flower could potentially be really lovely especially for these kind of racing thoughts and this high level of anxiety.

I think, yeah, passion flowers really indicated in terms of neurotransmitters and things.

So I think that could be a really good option.

And it's something that you could start gently with, just like a few drops in some water and like building up, valerian is like also one of our kind of sleep allies, but I personally think it's a bit too strong with methadone.

It could be an option like longer term, if he's really experiencing a lot of distress in the night and isn't one of those.

5 percent of people that get more activated and anxious on valerian, then it could be, yeah, it could really be an option.

So in terms of his nervous system state, we're looking at this kind of anxiety and hyper arousal.

And I talk about energetics a lot in the course and one of the tissue states is this like wind tension state, right?

So we're responding to that state with with relaxants.

And we're also thinking about herbal tonics as well.

Especially for him, he's endured kind of chronic long term stress.

He's had, a lot of fight or fly and sympathetic activation being in prison.

It makes you like super hypervigilant, like maybe you've listened to the podcasts about healing from incarceration, but I really talk about like how prison and captivity it's the wreckage of it on the nervous system.

So for this kind of hyper, Anxious day, I would be thinking of relaxants that we can have in the daytime that can be taken at the same time, or not the same time, but taken in close proximity to the methadone or through the day, for example.

So I think things like lemon balm would be perfect because it's also antispasmodic and yeah, would help him with his digestive issues, similar to chamomile, which I've talked about lavender, hawthorn.

So a lot of people, yeah, who've obviously had chronic stress, who've had, horrific diets in prison.

And Tom's disclosed that he's also having a lot of junk food.

Like you're thinking about, what are your blood vessels looking right?

What levels of inflammation have you got in your system?

And things like Hawthorne are so nourishing and so wonderful for sort of blood vessel integrity and health.

And that's gonna, support in terms of things like blood pressure, but just reduce general levels of inflammation, which could make a big difference.

And Hawthorne's also like a wonderful relaxant.

Gentle, subtle, relaxing, but yeah, I would definitely be thinking about Hawthorne.

Motherwort could be very effective when he's, extremely distressed in that kind of hyper aroused, hyper anxious state.

Rose, just cause why not?

Everyone knows I love roses, but again, like Rose is very cooling.

With this kind of wind tension state, sometimes there can be a lot of coldness there, but other times there can be a lot of heat, a lot of like hyper arousal like inflammation and anxiety, like high blood pressure, like there's a lot, it I haven't given enough detail to be in all honesty with these case studies because I wanted people to have freedom and movement to think about energetics as a spectrum.

But Rose could be really calling and strengthening and obviously has all these like emotional effects on the heart and, someone who's experienced that amount of kind of trauma in prison, I think Rose is like a wonderful offering.

Passionflower doesn't have to just be for the nights, could also be in like a daytime blend.

Bettany, so yeah.

Now we're moving to our sort of like more nerve tonics.

Betony is strongly indicated for nightmares.

I think I talk about it in the Nightmare podcast.

That's one of its kind of like folk affinities.

It's also got a big affinity with the liver.

And I think Tom is likely to have distress in his liver, like long term kind of drug use, long term chronic stress, like poor diet, poor inflammation, like all of these factors of just yeah, bloody oppression.

But yeah, kind of betony is going to be helping on all those levels, not just toning the nervous system and reducing anxiety, but also, supporting the liver.

Milky Oats.

Okay, so Milky Oats is always like my number one nerve tonic.

It's really nourishing, strengthening.

I talk about it in depth in the PTSD course.

But yeah, that's going to be attending to, we say like frayed nerves, right?

And frayed nerves are really literally like our nerve fibers are frayed, like our myelin sheath is, like potentially damaged and our nerves are not communicating like as well as they could be.

So it's like Milky Oats literally helps with the kind of repair to the structure and function of the nervous system.

And I just think for anyone who's endured that kind of long term chronic stress, it's fantastic.

So I would definitely include that there.

And it's also very like nutritious and moistening.

And, a lot of the kind of nerve vines that are often in our Materia Medica are often very cooling and bitter, right?

And someone who's got potentially a cold constitution opiates are very cold.

They make someone's system very cold and deficient.

So milky oats is yeah, nourishing and strengthening.

I wouldn't give him schizandra, which is another herb I talk about in depth in the PTSD course, just because of it enhances drug clearance because of its relationship to the liver.

And, it can also make nausea worse.

Someone taking methadone often if they're experiencing withdrawals, like the nausea is so horrific, like they can barely drink water.

So it's like giving a herb that could potentially trigger nausea is it's just no, it's just not a good idea because, they're not gonna take the medicine.

And yeah, it's gonna make them feel like shit.

So be cautious of that.

Rosemary.

So there's an interesting clinical study about reduction of kind of opiate withdrawal symptoms relating to rosemary.

It's not one that I would like traditionally think of.

But actually, rosemary is very warming.

And like I've mentioned, This kind of opiates in the body like they're a real depressant on the system and rosemary is like in the stimulating nirvana category in the PTSD course.

So these are herbs which are generally warming, aiding in circulation.

They're uplifting, they're strengthening, they're not like cooling anxiety, but they're strengthening you to be able to cope with anxiety, if that makes sense.

And they often have lots of amazing kind of aromatic oils, which can help with.

Gut flora challenges and chronic bacterial infections and things, which, very likely to be going on for Tom, given what he's been going through.

Okay.

So then in terms of digestion he's gonna, he's experiencing stomach cramps, which are a result of the withdrawals and also this wind tension state, right?

They're this kind of off on intermittent.

It's not like a chronic constant pain.

It's like coming and going, which is When we have our desired herbal actions of like carminatives and antispasmodics and, he's also potentially most likely experiencing constipation from opiates.

So we might want to include some laxatives in your people on methadone.

It can go either way.

Often it can be like chronic diarrhea when experiencing withdrawals, but otherwise opiates are very constipating.

If Tom was my client, I would definitely try and resource him with further GI investigation, like one day I will make some people's laboratory to look at bloody people's stools and things.

Like it's so frustrating to me that these tests are like hundreds of pounds, but it would be amazing to see what's going on in terms of his gut bacteria and inflammation and stuff.

Okay, so in terms of these herbal actions, we're thinking about, yeah, carminatives and antispasmodics and laxatives.

And we're also potentially thinking about, excuse me, astringents when we're in that diarrhoea phase.

Okay, so again, chamomile and lemon balm both mentioned in the nervous system section.

And, Hopefully by the time we get to the end of this, we'll see the same herbs come up regularly and what we're trying to do as herbalists is have plant medicines in our blends that are serving more than one function, right?

Like they're supporting the nervous system, but they're also supporting the the digestive system and they're also supporting the musculoskeletal system.

So It's like we're trying to get a herb that is just like getting us bang for our buck if that makes sense.

So yeah, chamomile, fantastic, antispasmodic, lemon balm, also really underestimated as a kind of carminative and antispasmodic.

Cramp bark is an option for kind of times of acute cramp.

It's a smooth muscle relaxant.

It might be he could have a little separate bottle of cramp bark, for example, that he could take during like kind of acute painful spasms, when he's like bent over on the toilet, for example, or, you can also just include it in the blend.

Yeah, I've also put here catnip.

So this is one of the herbs in the PTSD course as well, which is a comminative.

But what I like about catnip is it gives us this, gives us an option of, because it's very warming, and again, most of these herbs so far have been very cold and cooling.

And like I said, methadone is very cooling.

So I like catnip's affinity here because of this kind of warming nature.

Lavender is also a nice antispasmodic that I've mentioned.

Ginger could be indicated.

Here in terms of nausea, I don't talk about ginger in the course as in terms of its own profile, plant profile.

But it is one of our kind of nausea herbs, not if you have hyperemesis in pregnancy.

I'm just allergic to ginger now, sadly, after everyone's saying, just take ginger, and it just never working and vomiting 30 times a day.

Anyway peppermint is an option.

It's interesting.

Peppermint is very calming.

But it can go either way.

I think people with a lot of digestive system distress often really react to it.

So it's not always appropriate, especially if people have like hernias and stuff and other people, it's their absolute go to for their kind of IBS bloating gassy symptoms.

So it might just, with any of these I always see the first blend that I give someone is like, it's just an experiment at the beginning.

Obviously, it's not an experiment that you're going off your own herbal knowledge and your kind of repertoire of of plant medicines that you're intimate with and hopefully, you've going off experience and if not your own experience and experience of other herbalists, but I also think that everyone's constitution is so different that, yeah, you don't quite know how someone's going to react to a plant and something that on paper looks really perfect for someone might just aggravate them.

Yeah, just that first blend, I think is nice to experiment, which is why I'm skipping ahead here, but why it's good to sometimes.

give plants as symbols, like as an individual plant, so that person can really gauge which herb is affecting them.

Because when we give more complicated blends, it can get more challenging to navigate of oh, which herb is aggravating them.

Yeah, I've also included hawthorn flowers.

They are a kind of diaphoretic for this kind of like some of the withdrawal symptoms.

Motherwort, again, is also an antispasmodic.

Betony, which I've talked about in the nerve tonics, has a strong affinity with the liver.

Evening primrose is meant to be indicated for nausea.

I haven't found it effective in my experience, but It could be, there's like a thing there about the essential fatty acids and that potentially influencing nausea.

I'm not sure what the mechanism is, but yeah, vervain.

Vervain is like a herb I talk about in the nerve tonic section.

So vervein offers liver support.

It's also like an astringent, so it's more appropriate in the kind of diarrhea stage.

And time as well is in the stimulating nervine section.

Time's also a kind of astringent and again, an underestimated antispasmodic.

If he's got sort of GI stuff going on, microbiome stuff, then time could be useful too.

And then in terms of nutrition, obviously he's, he's eating fast food, he's living in poverty, he's just bounced out of prison, like he's likely to have deficiencies, like zinc, B6 can be really indicated in terms of like insomnia, I would recommend vitamin C and a B complex, like if, yeah, if he had loads of money, which most people getting out of prison don't have, then it might be having a kind of like a kind of nutritional mix via IV could be really useful.

I had a couple when I was pregnant because I was like near enough, just living off ice cubes basically.

And I was very terrified of the impact on my baby.

So I had a couple of IVs with like big kind of vitamin blends.

And yeah, I think it's interesting.

It's not something, it's a bit like, yeah, I don't want to offend anyone because naturopathy is a really interesting field, but often, it's this kind of heroic using something an IV or something as super extreme compared to just having healthy diet, right?

But I think if someone's in such an extreme state of deficiency, then it might give them the boost that months and months of supplements might Not.

Okay.

So our desired herbal actions are like nutritive.

That's what we're looking for.

And we're also looking for herbs that can help with modulating inflammation, like reducing inflammation.

And I'm going to talk about inflammation more in a second.

But in terms of nutritive herbs some of our options could include nettles, super rich in iron and all different vitamins and minerals.

Milk thistle, I would definitely think about milk thistle with Tom.

I think for anyone who's used drugs long term, I think milk thistle It's like incredibly nourishing to the liver and just the entire system really.

There's tons of research around milk thistle and hepatitis.

And yeah, I think it's like a kind of wonderful ally.

It could just literally be like sprinkle bit of milk thistle powder, like on your cereal in the morning, it's like quite accessible.

We're thinking about our kind of antioxidants.

So like our berries, like elderberry, for example, Hawthorne berries rosehips have, high levels of vitamin C.

I would just be, yeah, I'd just be like really excited to give like a really nourishing kind of berry blend where like when you're in prison, like you only really get apples and oranges.

And obviously like oranges are so acidic and so high sugar that they trigger all this dysbiosis.

And the apples are just like completely flavorless.

And obviously never going to be organic, so they just taste really waxy, and yeah, so just to have that amazing boost of nourishment from all these kind of antioxidants and a wide spectrum of vitamins and minerals, I think it's going to be super nourishing.

Evening primrose I mentioned, because of the essential fatty acids could be helpful.

I'd want to be looking at the kind of different types of healthy fats he's having in his diet.

And yeah, I've talked about milky oats before, but, milky oats or oat straw infusions or just encouraging him to eat oats I don't know.

Yeah, I talk about them in the course a lot, but there's nourishing support of kind of rebuilding the body somehow, like having this kind of spectrum of B vitamins and yeah, support in that nervous system.

Okay.

Inflammation.

So yeah, we're going to be thinking about the impact of methadone.

We're going to be thinking about the impact of kind of fast food, which is, potentially very toxic kind of oils.

We're going to be thinking about the kind of chronic stress response, like the impact.

impact on his adrenal glands from constantly being in fight or flight, for example.

So I would definitely want him to get a kind of full set of bloods from the GP.

I definitely want to be looking at his kind of blood sugar stuff as well.

Because of, yeah, just that impact in prison on things like insulin and stuff.

Okay.

And then the kind of main thing that's important.

going to be regularly like inflaming his body is really like withdrawal symptoms, right?

I've already touched on some of these around nausea and stuff, but he might also be experiencing like muscle pain.

So we're going to be thinking about antispasmodics like skullcap, for example, and cramp bark that I've mentioned.

We might need some sort of anodyne kind of pain relieving.

Options, I think lavender infused oil is a really nice option or something topical, like maybe a kind of comfrey ointment with some magnesium in or something like that could be nice.

He might be experiencing kind of fever and chills and sweating a lot, so diaphoretics like lemon balm or linden could be really good here.

Yeah, and then just like a lot of, nausea and potential vomiting and diarrhea.

So we're going to be having, I've talked about these in the digestion section already, but like combinatives like chamomile, lemon balm, ginger and peppermint.

With the diarrhea, we might also want some astringents in the mix.

So that is a lot of, that's a lot of potential plants, right?

And I know when you're a herbalist, it's like really difficult to always Yeah, have all the options there.

But I think, yeah, I talk about this in the course as well of, um, introducing their vines like into life, but I would tend to not want to overwhelm him, I would maybe be thinking about some kind of daytime blend that he's taking with a mixture of kind of general relaxants, some of the GI herbs, with this crossover like lemon balm and stuff, and some of the kind of nerve tonics in there.

I would want that kind of combined strategically.

And then I would be thinking about just starting with one of the herbs for sleep.

So just starting with skullcap, for example, and if that's not working, then maybe we can introduce some passionflower.

And if that's not working, we can maybe go a bit stronger.

I've just realized one of the plants that I've not included here is California poppy.

That's also one of our amazing herds for people experiencing withdrawal symptoms.

So yeah, California poppy is like a cousin of the opium poppy, but it doesn't have the same doesn't have the same chemistry but can support with withdrawal symptoms.

I talk about it a lot in the in the herbalism PTSD and traumatic stress course and give some links to some studies around its role in supporting people with withdrawal symptoms.

But yeah, I might.

California Poppy, I think for people who use drugs can be a bit of a a crowd pleaser because it's Oh, it's a poppy, there's like this relationship with the poppy family already.

So yeah, I think it's definitely an option.

It's antispasmodic, right?

So it's going to be helping with the muscle pain, the digestive cramps, the restless legs.

And it's also nerve tonic, like supporting longer term and a gentle relaxant.

So yeah, would definitely be good to include it in the mix.

Yeah.

So yeah, I would probably start with that, like a daytime blend, one thing at night recommending some supplements to integrate over time especially like magnesium and vitamin D and yeah, just trying to get him to a doctor and get kind of other things ruled out.

But yeah that's where I would go with Tom.

And yeah that's where I would go in terms of herbal support.

But I would hope people draw on like other aspects of the herbalism PTSD and traumatic stress course like the module looking at collective responses to stress, you would want to be thinking about how can he have more like social support, whether that's going to narcotics anonymous meetings, or like joining anarchist back cross group and connecting with other ex prisoners and, supporting people in prison, like there's so many, different ways that we can respond to trauma that aren't just like plant medicines or nutrition, for example.

Yeah, I would encourage anyone listening who's doing the course to draw and think about yeah, all those other aspects of, maybe he needs.

brain spotting or EDMR to help process some of the vivid kind of traumatic memories from prison, for example.

Maybe he could get involved in like a local community garden and have access to some land, which could be really healing.

So yeah, it's not just about plant medicines, obviously, but if you've been intrigued by what I've talked about, I just want to encourage you that the Herbalism PTSD and Traumatic Stress course is not open for much longer.

I dive into all of these things in so much detail, whether that's like detailed plan profiles about a kind of herb and their actions and a bit of their history and their chemistry and stuff, or whether that's looking at, different kind of nervous system states like fight or flight or freeze, for example and this kind of polyvagal theory.

Yeah.

And if you just want to make sense of some of these terms like herbal actions and yeah, the nuances and things, then I would encourage you to join.

I'll put the link in the show notes.

Thanks for listening.

I'd also love to hear people's experiences of other plant medicines in this context.

Because I think, yeah, what.

the best we can do as herbalists is keep sharing our knowledge not just like reproducing each other's monographs, but like really sharing our knowledge of hey, that didn't work for me or this herb was really fantastic or, so yeah, please get in touch if yeah, you've been working with people on methadone, for example or yeah, in general, people experiencing withdrawals and withdrawal symptoms and things, I'd be really interested in connecting.

Okay, thanks so much for listening.

Bye.

Thanks so much for listening to the Frontline Herbalism podcast.

You can find the transcript, the links, all the resources from the show at solidarityapothecary.

org forward slash podcast.