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Gillian - Bitcoin can make it easier for you to follow five of the Eightfold Paths in Buddha's Fourth Noble Truth.
Episode 8526th November 2023 • Orange Hatter • Tali Lindberg
00:00:00 01:01:01

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Alignment, Spirituality and Transformation

Gillian shares her personal journey of alignment, growth, and self-discovery through various avenues: from studying film in New York and Asian culture in Japan, to her exploration of Rolfing, Pilates, hypnotherapy, and Buddhist Psychotherapy. She explores the profound value of aligning with one's inner identity, environment, and, importantly, with money. After her third encounter with Bitcoin, she made the decision to invest her resources into it. She underlines the empowerment Bitcoin provides, especially for women and encourages self-interrogation when facing resistance or discomfort in exploring new areas like Bitcoin.

00:03 Introduction

00:31 Announcement of the Orange Hatter Women's Retreat

01:34 Guest Introduction and Conversation

01:47 Early Life and Education

03:55 Career in Film and Technology

04:18 Personal Struggles and Self-Discovery

05:36 Journey in Different Countries

08:15 Career Transition into Technology

10:13 Exploration of Self-Identity

13:28 Career in Psychotherapy

17:55 Personal Growth and Future Plans

31:19 Unveiling the Layers of Self-Discovery

31:44 Exploring Zen Buddhism and Consciousness

33:32 The Journey of Self-Realization and Conscious Death

34:14 Experiences of Emotional Struggles and Healing

37:00 The Mystical: Astrology, Starseeds, and Channeling

38:04 The Path of Spiritual Exploration and Transformation

42:33 The Intersection of Bitcoin and Spirituality

42:45 The Journey to Bitcoin and Financial Freedom

45:11 Bitcoin as a Tool for Personal and Financial Alignment

49:31 The Role of Bitcoin in Alleviating Anxiety

57:23 Empowering Women through Bitcoin

01:00:16 Closing Remarks and Invitation to Join the Women's Reading Club

*** Check out the Orange Hatter Women's Retreat @OrangeHatterPod

To learn more about Bitcoin: Join the Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club.  Visit https://www.meetup.com/womensbitcoinreadingclubwithorangehatter

Please email questions/comments to tali@orangehatter.com

HODL UP is available at www.freemarketkids.com.

Remember: Knowledge is empowerment! 🍊🎩

Mentioned in this episode:

Aleia Free Market Kids Sponsorship FULL

Get your HODL UP ("The best bitcoin game ever!") at www.freemarketkids.com.

Transcripts

Gillian:

I was trying to free myself and help people free themselves

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through therapy, but we will never

be free without a free money.

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This white elephant in the room

was missing in all this therapy and

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alignment stuff I'm trying to do.

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We need to align with money.

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That was for me, the

last piece coming together

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Tali: Hey, everybody.

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Welcome to Orange Hatter.

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Before we dive into my conversation

with our guest today, I want to share

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with you a very exciting project,

the Orange Hatter Women's Retreat.

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The mission of this retreat is to create

a nurturing sanctuary where women in the

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Bitcoin space can connect with each other,

recharge batteries, find grounding, and

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form deep friendships so that you don't

feel so isolated where you are sharing

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the potential of Bitcoin with the world

while keeping an eye on the fiat system.

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This retreat is going to

be absolutely amazing.

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I am partnering with the

Yucatan Project in Mexico.

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The details will be rolled

out later this week.

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Keep an eye out on Twitter

at Orange Hatter Pod.

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I'll give out more information

as they are finalized.

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Spaces are very limited, and

they're going to fill up fast.

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So sign up for it when the registration

and I will see you in Mexico.

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And now we're going to.

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Continue with our podcast.

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Here is my conversation with

our wonderful guests today.

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Hey, Gillian, thank you so much

for coming to Orange Hatter.

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I'm so glad you're here and I can't

wait to dive into your stories.

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Gillian: So thank you for having me.

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Tali: Let's start by just giving

us a little bit of your background.

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Gillian: many, many years ago, 55

years ago, I was born in Malaysia.

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I was raised there till I, till I

was 13 and my parents sent me , to

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Singapore to study because they

have a better educational system.

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It was in English, not MLA, so I was

there for my, uh, secondary school,

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we call it, under the English system.

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But then I, I went to college in the

States because I wanted to study film.

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And there wasn't film

in Asia or in England.

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, but I didn't tell my parents

I was going to study film.

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They wouldn't have

allowed me at that time.

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, so I did go to New York, , all by myself.

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really looking forward , to

finding the America.

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, I thought I knew from the

cinema, from the films that I saw

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growing up, but I didn't find it.

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And most of the films at that time

, were set in California anyway.

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I thought about going to California

or even Boston for film school,

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but then somehow something

asked me to go to New York.

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So I went to New York, the

toughest place at that time.

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But I think New York really

helped to, toughen me up in a way.

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In many ways, you know, , my

own security, safety, I started

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learning Chinese when I was there in

Chinatown because NYU is very close.

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It's still very close to Chinatown I

was, basically ethnically Chinese, but

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I never grew up learning or speaking.

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I spoke some Cantonese, you know, like

home Cantonese, my family's Hakka.

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So they spoke to us, my grandparents

spoke to us in Hakka, but we

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would answer in Cantonese.

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So , I met some people in Hong

Kong in the film industry and

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became good friends with them.

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And that gave me this.

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This whole dream that I was trying

was nurturing at that time is

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that I want to live in Hong Kong.

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I want to be in the film industry,

you know, I want to be with these

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people I see on TV all the time.

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so I went to film school and then started

studying Chinese , in Cantonese, actually

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reading Chinese characters in Cantonese

so that I could read scripts in Hong Kong.

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So when I graduated, went to

Hong Kong, worked for two years.

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, on one of the films where I was

working and filming in Spain, two

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events, live events took place that

just got my attention and said,

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you have to pay attention to these.

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I was 21 at that time.

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I graduated early, you know,

kind of typical Chinese.

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Let's finish your education as fast as

possible, save money and start working.

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So at 21, , when I was abroad

in, , Spain, working on a film,

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two events took place that made me

really have to think about myself.

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And it was about coming out

actually, , as a lesbian at that

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time, but it was so frightening.

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It was 35, how many?

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Yeah.

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No.

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Yeah.

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35 years ago, that I

needed to take time off.

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So I quit.

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The film, the only way I could take

time off without telling my parents

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immediately coming out would be

this is too scary at that time.

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I thought I needed to go back to school.

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So I went for a master's degree, and

I thought I had three cities to choose

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from London, New York, or San Francisco.

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And I chose New York again.

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I wasn't into Europe at that time.

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So just the States and New

York, , because there was somebody

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that I had liked there before.

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So there was some connections.

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So I went back to New York and I got

into a good school because that's the

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only way that I could have convinced

my parents to sponsor me for a master's

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degree, you know, I had to be in an

Ivy league, so I got into Columbia and

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I did that program that was very well

recognized and then moved to Japan.

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I majored , in, , what we call East Asian

languages and cultures and majored in

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Japan, but that's because I had nothing I

wanted to study, but I wanted to find out.

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About my own identity, because the

first time when I went to America,

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I thought, Oh, I'm so happy.

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I'm going to be in America.

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And then I'm like, I'm not American.

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I didn't resonate with any of my

classmates, schoolmates that

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we had to make films together.

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35 years ago, I was wanting to make.

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Films about, okay, coming to

another country on my own.

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And what does this mean?

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And most of my classmates wanted

to make films about car chases,

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sex, smoking, action movies.

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I, I didn't feel like I, I fit it.

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So when this chance came up to, to go take

two years off, , my life, uh, I thought,

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okay, I need to look into my life anyway.

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So I wanted to look more

deeply into my, my identity.

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So I thought, you know, I'm

Asian, I guess, but, , I'm

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so, I only speak English.

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Well, I speak some, I can, I could only

read in English at that time and some

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Malay, but Malay I didn't identify with.

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So I went to Japan and say, I

want the Japanese are Asian.

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But they're so different.

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So I wanted to understand what it was

to be Asian from their perspective.

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So I did my master's in that, went to live

in Japan for a year, loved it, loved being

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learning about Japan and Japanese culture.

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There's so many things.

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I felt like the language, the culture gave

me, how would I say, they kind of made

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real, , some human experience that I would

have had, but now there is a word for it.

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Now there is a group of people

who lived around this concept.

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So it was really nice.

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I felt at home in many ways and yet

totally, totally a foreigner , in Japan.

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, and then I met my first partner there

and, uh, instead of settling down

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in Japan, she was, , sent to teach

Japanese , in Thailand and then We left.

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So we went to Thailand and

subsequently to the States, to

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Spain, and then came back to Japan.

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And that's one part of the story.

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At that time, because I always lived

more for love than anything else.

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, After leaving film, I studied,

well, humanities, but I was

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always interested in food.

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You know, I think that's very Chinese.

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Food.

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And I always wanted to have a restaurant,

a cafe, but somehow it never happened.

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And when we moved, when we moved

to Thailand, I started, that was

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when computers, I always loved

the Mac ever since I saw one.

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So I use the Mac.

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30 years ago when I was

doing graduate school.

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And then , just before, well, when,

when I went to Thailand, so I was,

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I had a Mac, I brought it with

me and I just went deep into it.

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The internet was just

starting at that time.

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So I bought books and books and books

of manuals and I read from first page

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to the last page and I taught myself and

then whatever I didn't know, I found a

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BBS, you know, a bulletin board system.

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At that time, I learned how

to connect to the internet.

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I met all these.

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Men usually, and I'm like, sit

next to them just to hope to ask a

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question that I didn't understand.

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And I was very lucky.

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I've met people who are very

generous and very sincere.

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So I learned a lot.

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And then I kind of created my own job.

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Where my, my partner was working

and I, I, uh, helping them, , put

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their network together and put

them, create a website for them.

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So I was learning every

day and being paid to learn.

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And I was so excited at, like, every day

I would spend more than 10 hours, 15 hours

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just learning and putting things together.

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And so when we left and went to

San Francisco, I was actually got

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a job at that time and one of

those new, , technology companies.

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But, my ex partner

didn't find a job there.

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And We went to New York and we found, we

both found jobs in New York, me, again in

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technology, and she in writing and editing

that gave us, , work visas in the States.

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And that's why we went

back to New York to work.

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But then I had a little bit

too much of New York by that

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time, , that was my third day.

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And then again, this energy from

within when, when change, it's almost

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like that when the transits on your

astrological chart come, there's

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almost like these energies are

bubbling and you know that you need

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to go through some transformation.

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And then I thought I need to go, I need

to leave and I want to go back to, I

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want to go to Spain, you know, cause

I had filmed in Spain before, after my

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first degree, we went to film in Spain.

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And why?

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Because in Spain, I

didn't know the language.

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I didn't, you know, I

didn't know the culture.

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I've never been to Europe at that time.

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And I felt like, , I could, I could kind

of reset, like I could feel like nothing.

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I know nothing here.

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I'm not tied to anything.

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I don't have to play by any rules.

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Now I can feel what I

actually feel inside.

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That was the first taste of, of Spain.

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And then now I'm wanting to deepen.

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So I wanted to go back to Spain.

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So we went, we went, but at that

time, the internet was still just,

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you know, like when we, when I started

the internet, there were only like

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three pages, three websites in the

world that I kept going to, no others.

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So at that time still, We didn't have

the World Wide Web like we have it

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today and my partner being Japanese

and, and Spain at that time was, you

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know, like living in another time,

there was all Asians and Chinese and.

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And you being made fun of sometimes still.

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And so she wanted, you know, again,

pressure from, from Japan, parents,

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Japanese parents think that Japanese women

had to get settled one way or another

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into a job or into a marriage by age 30.

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And we were just at 30 at that time.

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So then we decided to go back

cause she wanted to go back.

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So I went back to Japan

and that's the first part.

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Tali: And that's just the first part.

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I can't believe it.

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I mean, so much has happened.

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Gillian: Yeah, that I was, I was 30 then.

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Now I'm 55.

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Tali: Yeah, so we'll dig into the next 25

years in a minute, but I just want to, I

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just want to ask some follow up questions.

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So you left home when you were 13

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Gillian: Yes.

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Yes.

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Tali: and you were basically independent.

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Gillian: Basically I was sent to

boarding school the first year.

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Yeah, but tough.

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Boarding school in Singapore.

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Tali: I'm sure.

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I'm sure there are stories there.

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, moving around so much like going

to Malaysia, to Singapore, to New

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York, to Japan, to Spain, to Japan,

to Spain, again you have to stay so

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flexible and , almost chameleon like.

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to adapt to your environment.

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Talk to us a little bit about that.

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That must have been a personal

struggle or was it just very easy?

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In your story about adapting to

the internet in those early, early

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days when people were, a lot of

people were questioning if it

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was a real thing to begin with

and you were already deep diving.

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Yeah.

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Walk us through your, your mindset.

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Gillian: Okay.

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So it's an interesting question.

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Never thought about that.

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the first, well, I had some difficulties,

like, you know, trauma growing up at home.

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So in some ways leaving home was It was

a double edged sword for me at that time,

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because I was just doing better at school,

I had good friends, I didn't want to

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leave, but yet, leaving home or leaving

my family would have given me some freedom

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from some breathing space, I felt, and

I, I do believe somehow in timing, and

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I do believe in things happening, um,

in a way that is Not accidental, or we

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can think of it as okay, it happened

and therefore a certain energy is in

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place and then I might ride that energy.

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So it depends on how

we want to look at it.

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But a year before my parents sent me away

at 13, I met some adults, I was kind of

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always precocious, and some adults that

were actors and actresses in Hong Kong,

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who's videotapes I grew up with, watching

these series and I got along very well

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with one of them who was 10 years older

and she was like a big sister to me.

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I was a little sister to her.

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And because I was always looking for

some other, some other, I don't know,

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someone to love me, I guess, you

know, who cared for me, who saw me.

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Who gave me time and attention.

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, I, then when I did well in

school, , my parents, , rewarded

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me with whatever I wanted.

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And I said, I wanted a trip to

Hong Kong by myself and stayed

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with this friend of mine.

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So I spent a whole month there and

I was exposed entirely to the film

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industry, film and TV industry.

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I was with adults all the time.

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I felt I was like one of them.

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And I, from that time, I always

thought I want to go back.

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To Hong Kong.

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So I think and then since then, you

know, after that Hong Kong, let's say

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I went to school in in New York and

immediately the people that came to my

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mind, strangely enough, like, even though

I had trauma at home with All that.

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it's always some overseas Chinese of

family that helped me You know, so in Hong

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Kong, I had these Chinese friends, Hong

Kong friends, they always like open their

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arms to me and like, okay, I want to go.

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So I think most of it.

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I was looking for connection.

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I was looking for love, right?

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Love in the bigger sense.

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And then and I was always looking

for, uh, to learn also that I'm

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always very curious, wanting to

learn, of course, not just everything

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things that I I'm interested in.

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So I didn't think about in terms

of flexibility, but I think

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even, , in school in Singapore

being sent to boarding school.

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There are so many rules.

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That I had to learn to live with

those rules and not be depressed

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, or angry, or even if I were

angry, I couldn't express them.

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Who, to whom could I express?

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I just had to find the best way possible.

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To live through that situation and

still be well, so I think that probably

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trained me some and also growing up, I

think, in the Chinese family, whether

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it's extended family, and there's

lots of drama going on, like the book.

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family, you know, jia, like

ba jing, every, all the

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family stories is your world.

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You have 20, 30 cousins, I don't

know, 20 aunts and uncles and stuff.

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And , to navigate that,

I think was also complex.

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And I think that could

have been part of it.

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And then this other desire to always make

connection, and also recognized, , how

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People were, , I guess I felt gratitude

and appreciation for those people who

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helped me and that Further helped me

to connect with people, you know, so it

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was always a lot about people, like even

in Chinatown , in New York when I was

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studying there, I would go down and I

go to school, Chinese school, , my old

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teacher that always buy a bun and tea to

bring to him and I became friends with

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the people at the bakery, and I became

friends with people at the Chinese,

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you know, uh, what do you call those?

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Roast meat?

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Restaurants and stuff like that.

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So I think that was it.

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I think mostly I had I didn't think that

before but now in retrospect, I always

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had a very rich inner life in a way,

like I had a lot of my life was within,

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and then without was, how do I survive,

how do I have connection, but I think

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the thing that always Pushed me forward

was this inquiry inside, you know,

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because I thought it was because of the

of the trauma I had because you needed

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to somehow deal with the trauma and make

them sit and make it sit okay in yourself.

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Right.

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and then about technology and this, , I

don't know, , I don't know why these

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things happen, but I remember clearly when

I was 12, just before I left Malaysia.

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I remember I drew something like a

video player before I actually saw one.

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So sometimes, you get these

things, downloads or whatever it is.

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I remember that.

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So strangely enough, I remember that.

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And then I was just fascinated by

beauty, , by how, how beautiful

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the Apple computer was compared

to the ugly computers I saw around

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sitting and I never was drawn to it.

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Never.

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And , then I saw this film, , not

even a popular film when I was

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studying in Singapore about how

a computer was responding to you

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like what we have in AI today.

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And I was so excited about it.

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I don't know.

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It's like, wow, it's a different world.

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So when the internet came about.

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And trying to put things together now.

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I know, because now I know myself better.

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I like to solve problems.

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I like to troubleshoot.

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Like, how do you put these?

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How do you make things work?

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And it was totally, uh, the

internet was like that at that time.

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How do you make the modem work?

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Just how, how, how,

how, how the whole time.

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Tali: I think that's really fascinating

that you simultaneously feel power,

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not lifting you up, but almost like

pushing you forward and you have the

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internal energy and you have the inquiry

mindset and the combination of those

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three things brought you to these

just very interesting experiences.

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And that's just the

first part of your life.

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So let's jump into the next 25 years.

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Give us a What did you do after that?

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Gillian: what did I do?

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So after we got back to Japan.

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I was again in new place.

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What am I going to do for work again?

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Oh, should I have a cafe?

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Like I love that, but I didn't.

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My partner was working for a

Japanese company that dealt

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with, Writing and manuals and all

that for technology companies.

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And she was an editor.

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And then one of their, um, again, I

think all these things just are meant

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to be, well, were meant to be one of

the writers, uh, had, I don't know

347

:

what happened to him, but he couldn't.

348

:

Turn out for work.

349

:

So they were desperately

looking for someone.

350

:

And since I have some technology

background and I know both

351

:

languages, Japanese and English,

they asked me to try it out.

352

:

So I did one manual

and then they loved it.

353

:

And then I just continue.

354

:

Eventually we both became independent,

we started our own company

355

:

became contractors right to them.

356

:

for quite a few years, , I was, , excited

because it was, uh, mobile phones were

357

:

just coming on, the smaller ones, Sony was

picking it, so I was writing the manuals,

358

:

, translating some, , and then those that

were not translated, that were to be

359

:

written, I got to meet all the engineers.

360

:

I go to Epson to meet them and find out

about the this commercial, , printer

361

:

or, , copier that they're going to come

out with and learn about the functions and

362

:

how do you express this in a clear way.

363

:

, so I guess those qualities I already

have that of curiosity of wanting

364

:

to solve problems were always there.

365

:

I guess I always like technology

somehow without even knowing it.

366

:

And then.

367

:

We made pretty good money at that time.

368

:

Imagine today, you wouldn't, right?

369

:

You have automatic translation, but even

though Japanese is very hard to translate.

370

:

but after a few years, I thought,

okay, now I have like 30.

371

:

One or two, something like that,

or three, no, 34 by that time.

372

:

It was like, okay, I've done the

thing that I'm supposed to do.

373

:

I grow up, I go to school, I do well

in school, you come out, you get a

374

:

job, you make sure you can support

yourself, you find a partner, you know,

375

:

and that, okay, I've proven myself.

376

:

And then, but what now?

377

:

I, I don't feel like I'm elated,

like I like part of my work, but

378

:

I don't like other parts of it.

379

:

And all this energy I put into it, how

many people actually read the manual?

380

:

So I thought, my life, why

am I putting my life energy?

381

:

And again, this was another

one of those turning points.

382

:

And then when you're at those

turning points, at least

383

:

in my case, messages come.

384

:

So someone, I, I was also at that time.

385

:

Doing some things in the gym.

386

:

I hated the gym actually, but I went

anyway, because there's not enough, parks

387

:

and all that , to do things outside And

then I started , weight lifting, and then

388

:

I thought, Oh, this doesn't feel right.

389

:

I don't know how to use and somehow when

I do a squat, my thigh started to hurt.

390

:

And then that's all

coinciding during this period.

391

:

And my cousin, who's a doctor

mentioned Pilates, my ex partner's

392

:

friend mentioned Rolfing.

393

:

And , somehow I knew I had to look up

and I looked up, I read the page and

394

:

I'm like, this is what I need to do.

395

:

So when the timing is right for

me, always in my life has always

396

:

been like a message of voice.

397

:

I just know I have to do it.

398

:

I don't go very deep.

399

:

I just read a little bit.

400

:

That's it.

401

:

That's the right thing to do.

402

:

I have to.

403

:

So it was hard at that time to

give up a good business and tell

404

:

my parents, you know, even at early

stages, much more easy for me.

405

:

30s, I guess culturally,

maybe it's a cultural thing.

406

:

I'm still kind of concerned about what my

parents thought and how they would react.

407

:

, but I, I followed my heart

anyway, and I gave up all of that.

408

:

Went to Boulder, Colorado to

study Pilates, rolfing, all at

409

:

the same time, totally different

from what I had done before.

410

:

I had lots of.

411

:

Body image issues, , growing up as

a girl, but, , I didn't deal with

412

:

them, , and I know how you just

deal with them by denying and then

413

:

saying, Well, I'm just going to do

well in school to make up for it.

414

:

Right.

415

:

So, but it came a time when I thought

I really need to look at this.

416

:

Because I cannot live a

full or authentic life.

417

:

So, that starts that, journey.

418

:

, I also had stiff shoulders because I

was at the computer so many hours a day.

419

:

My little finger on the left

side started to, send a kind of

420

:

numbness up my arm into my neck.

421

:

And I didn't know what to do.

422

:

And it's not something like

the doctors would say, Okay,

423

:

this is what you need to do.

424

:

You know.

425

:

So, I look for the solution elsewhere.

426

:

So Ralphine being a structural

integration, being a physical modality,

427

:

you know, you start to feel like,

okay, things are changing in you.

428

:

Pilates was the hardest for me training

to be an instructor because I have

429

:

to, within a year, a year and a half.

430

:

do all those things that you need to

do on top of teaching and learning

431

:

the anatomy or what goes with it and

movement and all that to be able to

432

:

perform all of those things yourself

and it was a very good school and

433

:

they're very strict and they keep up

the standards so And it was physical.

434

:

It wasn't mental.

435

:

It was something that had to

be manifested in the body.

436

:

Yeah.

437

:

So a year and a half, I did that

lots of yoga and, rolfing school.

438

:

And then after that, I still felt like

there were parts of deeper parts of

439

:

myself None of these things touched.

440

:

It was deep inside my neck.

441

:

I could feel it.

442

:

Headaches deep inside of me.

443

:

Some tension deep inside of me.

444

:

And then of course I was

looking and the thing came.

445

:

It was cranial sacral therapy.

446

:

So I spent another two years

studying cranial sacral

447

:

therapy and that got deeper.

448

:

So I guess I was peeling layers.

449

:

I was peeling layers to myself, meaning

I'm getting to know myself better now.

450

:

, but even after that, I still, I kind of

felt, okay, now I feel more, uh, readier.

451

:

I felt readier to meet clients

because clients come and you don't

452

:

know who they're going to be, right?

453

:

And how they're going to react to you.

454

:

But then at that moment, I met one of

the most important teachers of my life.

455

:

Kind of by accident.

456

:

Again, no accidents.

457

:

I was doing craniosacral therapy.

458

:

, , , that was put together by someone

called Franklin Sills, and he

459

:

was visiting from England in to

Boulder to teach a cranial course.

460

:

And the wife was coming so I only knew

her as the wife Franklin's wife, and she

461

:

was going to teach a three day workshop

called coalescence of compassion.

462

:

And.

463

:

My teacher, I asked my teacher in Boulder,

I said, um, should I do this work?

464

:

How, what is this workshop about?

465

:

He said, well, she's fantastic.

466

:

You should do it.

467

:

But then I was really attracted to

these words, coalescence of compassion.

468

:

So I did do the workshop three days.

469

:

I sat there just crying.

470

:

Yeah, it was like, it wasn't that

kind of, it wasn't like that.

471

:

It wasn't sobbing was I was seated

there present and tears just

472

:

rolled down and I understood it as.

473

:

a resonance, a strong resonance when you

hear truth that you don't hear normally.

474

:

And you see this person in there

in front of you and you can

475

:

see something you never saw.

476

:

It's a kind of presence.

477

:

It's a kind of being able , to hold the

field and to be with the 20 over of us.

478

:

there in that workshop in a way that

I had never seen, never experienced.

479

:

And it moved me so much.

480

:

So I thought, I want to

study with this person.

481

:

And I thought I could do something

that's related to cranial,

482

:

but that course didn't run.

483

:

And the only thing she was doing

was a master's in psychotherapy,

484

:

in Buddhist psychotherapy.

485

:

And I'm like, Psychotherapy?

486

:

No!

487

:

I don't want to study psychotherapy.

488

:

Two years!

489

:

And on top of that, another year

of, clinical practice or something.

490

:

I thought about it.

491

:

I was still hoping, looking

for courses, but there wasn't.

492

:

And then one or two weeks

later, I thought, Oh, if

493

:

Maura, her name is Maura Sills.

494

:

If Maura is going to teach

a singing class, I would go.

495

:

So why wouldn't I go for

psychotherapy or whatever it is?

496

:

So I said, okay, I'll go.

497

:

I decided I applied and I went.

498

:

And this course was in England, in Devon.

499

:

So another , two years plus

another year of practice.

500

:

To write my dissertation and it was the

most important thing I did, I think, at

501

:

the timing to, you know, when I've done

a lot of things and this needed to come

502

:

into my life to integrate everything.

503

:

And only after that experience, because

it wasn't just a learning, a mental

504

:

learning, it was all about embodiment.

505

:

It was really living the things that

you would read about the experience.

506

:

It was only after that course that

I felt, okay, now I'm ready to meet

507

:

anyone in my practice, you know, that

I felt I would be able to handle in a

508

:

sincere, truthful, responsible way that

met my standards of being a therapist.

509

:

And then that would.

510

:

That would be another part of my life

because after that, , I was still in Japan

511

:

because I went to England and came back to

Japan, traveling many times in the year.

512

:

And then, , I separated

from my first partner.

513

:

And then the third, I would

say the third part would start.

514

:

I was 40.

515

:

When, when was it?

516

:

I was 42.

517

:

Tali: Wow.

518

:

I'm just mesmerized by your stories.

519

:

I , it's absolutely incredible that you

followed , the leading, like you, you say

520

:

when the timing is right and you get a

download and you have instruction and you

521

:

would just go, even though it's taking

you from one country to another and from

522

:

one discipline to another, and then to.

523

:

Change your course because

you were moved by a teacher.

524

:

I think that's absolutely fascinating

It makes me want to sit in that

525

:

room with you and just be able to

feel that because I've heard people

526

:

Describe experiences like that.

527

:

I haven't personally experienced and

I I wish I could because I'm very

528

:

fascinated by the whole Concept of health

and when like you were saying you had

529

:

to peel off layers because we build

them up when we're growing up, right?

530

:

So you're you're self protecting and for

you to really find What's inside you got

531

:

it and it takes time too Like what you

described that you had all these journeys

532

:

that brought you different places in order

to kind of shed the layers So now I just

533

:

can't wait to hear what happens next.

534

:

So keep going.

535

:

Gillian: You're talking about layers.

536

:

I just remembered about this.

537

:

I'm not very good in Chinese Mandarin,

but, you know, Chan, which is Zen

538

:

Buddhism actually started in China, right?

539

:

It's just made known by

Japanese Zen Buddhism.

540

:

So there is a very famous.

541

:

Poem written by a Zen scholar or zen

practitioner, where the core, the, the

542

:

core part is the one that is usually, um,

quoted and it, I think you might know.

543

:

It says,

544

:

and then,

545

:

which is like the three of consciousness.

546

:

So the first one, the third one, which

is in English, if I were to translate,

547

:

right, it would be like, you look

at the mountain, it's a mountain,

548

:

you look at the water, it's water,

because water in Chinese usually

549

:

represents lake, ocean, whatever.

550

:

And then the second stage would be you

look at the mountain, it's not a mountain,

551

:

you look at water, it's not water.

552

:

And then the third stage, you look

at mountain, it's a mountain, then

553

:

you look at water, it's water.

554

:

So the first and the third stage,

they look so similar, but it's

555

:

a totally different reality.

556

:

Yeah.

557

:

So that was, that's fascinating,

558

:

peeling those layers.

559

:

Like we think when, whenever we think

of something that we, we don't like

560

:

now, we always think, Oh, we should go

back to the thing, how the past was.

561

:

It wasn't like that.

562

:

It's not like that.

563

:

You know, it's not like, Oh,

if only I were a child again.

564

:

If only we could be innocent like that.

565

:

No, you cannot.

566

:

It's not the place to go.

567

:

It's the other direction.

568

:

It's a different kind

of innocence, you know.

569

:

And that's beautiful.

570

:

I want that.

571

:

The thing that I want the most is actually

a conscious death that I choose to go.

572

:

And that for me would be the

ultimate, uh, reaching of myself

573

:

Tali: What do you mean conscious death?

574

:

Gillian: Meaning, like, I know it's

time and I am there with myself.

575

:

I would imagine I'm probably lying down.

576

:

I probably wouldn't be seated and die

like those, uh, abbots of the past, but,

577

:

, probably be lying down and I'm very, very,

very conscious, very aware, very present.

578

:

And I choose to leave my body.

579

:

I've had those experiences.

580

:

I felt like During this third part of

my life, after the separation, I was at

581

:

that time actually in a relationship with

someone, , who's married, thinking that

582

:

she would be leaving the relationship.

583

:

That's the impression I

got, but it didn't happen.

584

:

And then it got drawn out and was

very painful for me because it

585

:

was antithetical to everything

I found, I cherished in life.

586

:

Openness, honesty.

587

:

You know, uh, just feeling

totally free in what you're doing.

588

:

And that pushed me to, and because

of the nature of that relationship,

589

:

it pushed me to go deeper.

590

:

And I wouldn't have if I didn't.

591

:

But because there are two times in my

life I felt like, you know, like you

592

:

felt, you feel like you're totally

without, energy that you just have to,

593

:

you don't have agency anymore, almost.

594

:

Like, you just need to survive.

595

:

The first was a very interesting

experience in, Buddhist psychotherapy

596

:

school where we sit together.

597

:

And because I just don't know how

to tell you, I don't think this is a

598

:

very common experience where, , the

teachers were so skillful to, because

599

:

a lot of things need to be allowed

to come onto the surface, right?

600

:

And then that's when you

have a chance to resolve it.

601

:

Just like the economy, you know, so,

but the people holding that space for

602

:

that to happen is what makes a difference

to on top of the players, of course,

603

:

but there was this experience when

I was in a circle with that group in

604

:

school, but I felt I was decimated into

like little pieces like I disappeared.

605

:

You know, it's a very interesting

experience to not be so solid, to not

606

:

be like, you know, like you say, we

have learned, we learn to survive.

607

:

Right.

608

:

And usually there's a bit of solidity

in that survival and that beingness.

609

:

And then the second time was, , when , in

this relationship, I had a difficult

610

:

time when that person just cut off

contact with me when she was sick.

611

:

And that was too much for me to handle.

612

:

And I felt like I wasn't,

I just lost all my energy.

613

:

I couldn't, that was like a big hole

that no matter what energy came out.

614

:

It would just drain and that kind of

state was the only reason I guess why

615

:

you would just do whatever someone

that you trust will tell you and that

616

:

someone was one of my ex classmate from

the Buddhist psychotherapy training.

617

:

And she said, Hey, you know, maybe

you should see this astrologer.

618

:

I said, okay, and I went online, I

saw the astrologer, and then that

619

:

astrologer then mentioned some things.

620

:

It's not even important anymore what

she, what we talked about, but again,

621

:

you know, these messages come, and

there were two things she mentioned that

622

:

made me, okay, I gotta look up more.

623

:

She told me about, , star seeds,

and she told me about Bashar.

624

:

Do you know Bashar?

625

:

Tali: I don't know But sure,

but I have heard of starseeds

626

:

, , Gillian: so Bashar is a extraterrestrial

entity that's channeled, has been

627

:

channeled for 40 years now by a

filmmaker, actually, in Los Angeles.

628

:

And his teachings for

me, they're just perfect.

629

:

They just speak directly to me.

630

:

They're very clear.

631

:

There's nothing, no cult, no

religion, no nothing, just more

632

:

like, , quantum physics and

633

:

just another way of looking at the same

thing, just change your perspective,

634

:

same thing, and it's totally different.

635

:

So, from there, I was more exposed to,

I started listening to his things on

636

:

YouTube, you know, just trying to recover.

637

:

And then the thing from the

starseeds led me to Dolores Cannon.

638

:

She's passed since.

639

:

that time, but she's written books and

books about hypnotherapy and how she

640

:

would encounter, you know, about Dolores.

641

:

Yeah.

642

:

And she would encounter these,

what she calls a subconscious that

643

:

is a larger presence that would

then she would be talking to and

644

:

getting all this information.

645

:

So it started me on this kind of

more, areas where in life, , maybe

646

:

given my, , tendency towards, I

don't know, I guess practicality I

647

:

may not have dived into, but I did.

648

:

And then through Bashar.

649

:

, I went to swim with the dolphins.

650

:

I went to swim with the whales.

651

:

And then I, I was also teaching rolfing.

652

:

but then I met somebody, uh, while I was

teaching that told me about ayahuasca.

653

:

Actually, the second time I heard about

ayahuasca, the first time was when I was

654

:

in rolfing school and I visited Brazil,

but it didn't speak to me at that time.

655

:

But then this second time,

I thought, oh, it's time.

656

:

And then I asked and it was in Peru.

657

:

So during those few years, I was

intensely doing all these kinds of things.

658

:

I went to all kinds of, , Bruce

Lipton, you probably have heard of.

659

:

The biology of belief.

660

:

I did the psych K thing

that he recommended.

661

:

It just went everywhere.

662

:

And I did shamanic studies.

663

:

, went to Esalen, did a lot of other

things, tapping, all kinds of things.

664

:

And, , five rhythms, which I love also.

665

:

Have you, do you know about five rhythms?

666

:

It's a, it's a kind of dance where you,

you really can transform through it.

667

:

Yeah.

668

:

So, It just totally now opened my

life to something else, but I thought

669

:

they were all necessary to make my

life more well rounded and fuller.

670

:

And during one of these classes, the Site

K class that Bruce Lipton, , recommended.

671

:

Where was I?

672

:

I don't remember.

673

:

Somewhere in the States.

674

:

iT was during that time I had

done a death and dying workshop

675

:

in the shamanic studies.

676

:

Where you could, go and help

those people who had not moved on.

677

:

To move on and then right after that

I did this workshop and this workshop

678

:

is about reprogramming yourself and

I was very much into being deep into

679

:

myself, and I already know how to go

into get into the cranial state by that

680

:

time, so that those few nights when I

was doing the course at night, I would

681

:

feel like I could feel like my, I could

will my a a energy to leave my body.

682

:

And I had done some, , hypnosis work too.

683

:

And in the hypnosis, sometimes you

can also feel that kind of leaving.

684

:

So then I, I could, I felt

like, wow, I can will myself.

685

:

So I start to learn to how, how can

I fall asleep in a different way?

686

:

How do I, so those things.

687

:

And when I felt, okay, there is a way

where I can, and in one of the hypnosis,

688

:

I was Leaving my body when I died in that

life, because this is, , Michael Newton's

689

:

work on, , hypnosis and what is it called?

690

:

, I forget now journey of souls.

691

:

I think the book about what

you're learning as a soul.

692

:

So the hypnosis always

brings you to your death.

693

:

So in that death, I, I could literally

feel my energy, leave my body.

694

:

It was very embodied.

695

:

So I remember all of this.

696

:

I put things together and during those

few nights, I felt like I could actually

697

:

leave and come back, leave and come back.

698

:

Not, not far.

699

:

I'm not those that you go

astral traveling and come back.

700

:

No, it was really real here.

701

:

Like I would go up to up,

maybe up to the ceiling.

702

:

I'm like, Oh, my hand.

703

:

Is it going to go through the ceiling?

704

:

Things like that, but it was very real.

705

:

So that's what I like to do.

706

:

When I know it's time.

707

:

Tali: very, very fascinating.

708

:

I think we're going to have to do a bonus

episode to dive deeper because, , , I just

709

:

think that , this area is very mysterious.

710

:

And a lot of people probably have

a great misunderstanding of the

711

:

experiences you're talking about.

712

:

So we'll do a deep dive on that

in a, in a different episode.

713

:

But so, okay, so I feel like your life

has prepped you to the point where

714

:

you're going to encounter Bitcoin.

715

:

Gillian: Totally.

716

:

Totally.

717

:

It

718

:

Tali: talk about that.

719

:

Gillian: So, actually, it was a

third encounter that I listened.

720

:

Because that was when I wanted something.

721

:

I needed something.

722

:

But I remember the first time,

because I'm so into computers.

723

:

Many years ago, probably in

:

724

:

Somebody asked me, hey, do you

want to do this mining thing?

725

:

I said, what?

726

:

Like, what do I have to do?

727

:

I said, Oh, you have to turn, keep

your Mac book on the whole time.

728

:

I said the whole time.

729

:

No, no, I'm not going to, it's going

to kill my, my book, my Mac book.

730

:

I thought, so I didn't do it.

731

:

And then the second time I was already

a therapist and someone asked if

732

:

I would take Bitcoin for therapy.

733

:

And I, I mean, for rolfing or something.

734

:

And I said, no.

735

:

, because I'm like, what?

736

:

Bitcoin, what am I going to do with it?

737

:

I don't, it's too much trouble.

738

:

And then the third time was

when I, it was very late.

739

:

It was 2020.

740

:

I wasn't, I was living in Lisbon

then and the pandemic started.

741

:

, I.

742

:

moved with my partner, my current

partner to, after six months in

743

:

Lisbon, I said, no, we need nature.

744

:

We moved to live in Bali for a year.

745

:

During that time, I was

thinking something's not right.

746

:

What's going to happen?

747

:

Like something's just not, I've been

asking like, Hey, where should, which

748

:

bank should I put my money into?

749

:

Because, this money thing is not small.

750

:

It's not a small matter

in a Chinese family.

751

:

It's central.

752

:

And I always pushed back on investments,

you know, things my parents, my

753

:

family, my sisters were interested in.

754

:

It never felt right to me.

755

:

And every time I try to do

something, I would fail.

756

:

So I said, no more.

757

:

And then I thought, never, I

just keep my money in the bank.

758

:

Right.

759

:

I didn't know about inflation.

760

:

I mean, I did, but I didn't

know everything at that time.

761

:

So I thought.

762

:

Nothing.

763

:

And I can't just invest into any

fund or any company because I don't

764

:

agree with the things they're doing.

765

:

So I'm like, what do I do with my money?

766

:

Just leave it there in a term deposit.

767

:

And I let that happen for like 20 years.

768

:

I was once rich , and

then I wasn't anymore.

769

:

And then I was like.

770

:

What do I do?

771

:

Which bank should I put my money in?

772

:

It's going to collapse.

773

:

So then I asked a friend who was more into

these things and he mentioned Bitcoin.

774

:

This time it was different.

775

:

Bitcoin.

776

:

That's it.

777

:

It's like when I heard Pilates,

Rolfing, or when I met Maura.

778

:

And then I just, he sent me two videos.

779

:

They're not even the best videos,

like Raoul Paul, not the right person

780

:

for Bitcoin, but it didn't matter.

781

:

I just listened.

782

:

I'm like, this is it.

783

:

This is it.

784

:

And I started, I know nothing because

I had stopped being in technology

785

:

for a long time going into these

alternative medicine or therapies.

786

:

And I just had to start from scratch.

787

:

So every day, every day in Bali,

while I was gardening, I was listening

788

:

to podcasts nonstop, so many holes,

so many holes, but immediately I

789

:

thought this is the right thing to do.

790

:

And immediately I bought some,

my friend , held my hand and

791

:

showed me how to use Kraken.

792

:

And then.

793

:

It was December in 2020, and then the

price was just going up like crazy.

794

:

But then I thought, I have to

do that to get my money out.

795

:

And because I've lived in so many

countries, I had bank accounts in

796

:

so many countries, and the more I

wanted to take out, the more difficult

797

:

I realized it was going to be.

798

:

They wouldn't give me my money.

799

:

It's like, what?

800

:

Like, why do you ask all these

questions when I'm going to do?

801

:

So, but I was able to,

and I was very lucky.

802

:

, I just put everything into it.

803

:

Everything.

804

:

Because that's the only way

I felt I didn't have to worry

805

:

about what's going to happen.

806

:

and I didn't know when it was going to

happen and it felt so right that with

807

:

this money we can finally be free.

808

:

So I was trying to free myself

and help people free themselves

809

:

, through therapy, but we will never

be free without a free money.

810

:

And I was like this white elephant in

the room was missing in all this therapy

811

:

and alignment stuff I'm trying to do.

812

:

We need to align with money.

813

:

And so that was actually for me, the last

piece coming together, although probably

814

:

money is the first piece of many people,

but it's like it had to come last for me.

815

:

And like, this is it.

816

:

This is the final

alignment needs to be made.

817

:

We cannot write the

Buddha was able to do it.

818

:

But how many people can be Buddha

He had to go through all he lived

819

:

in a time of manipulated money.

820

:

Even though he had it, but it's still

he was worried about concerned about

821

:

other people, and he was looking for

a way within right to find happiness

822

:

and peace and equanimity in that world.

823

:

And he found it right and he

taught us he gave us the teachings.

824

:

But imagine if we didn't, if that

money part was taken care of, how

825

:

much easier, how much, well, not

necessarily that we would do it

826

:

anyway, because it's still a choice.

827

:

Because I actually did, , I gave

a presentation , , this year in a

828

:

small Bitcoin conference retreat in

the Philippines, in Boracay Island.

829

:

And I did one on Bitcoin and spirituality

and So I took the teaching, The Four

830

:

Noble Truths, the Buddha's teaching,

where the fourth truth is the Eightfold

831

:

Path, the Noble Eightfold Path.

832

:

And if you look at all the Noble

Eightfold Path, Bitcoin, or sound

833

:

money like Bitcoin, can help you really

more easily achieve, Five of them.

834

:

But the last three are out.

835

:

We need to want to beat that.

836

:

We need to go into meditation.

837

:

We need to want to go deeper

into ourselves beyond money.

838

:

What money can help of

sound money can help.

839

:

So for me, telling people about

Bitcoin, helping people understand,

840

:

helping people use it self custody.

841

:

That's my thing.

842

:

I really want to help people do that.

843

:

It's the same as for me giving a session.

844

:

Of alignment.

845

:

How do you find your body?

846

:

How do you find a line in yourself

where your physical body your emotions

847

:

your thoughts and your spirit are one

and at peace So what do we need to do?

848

:

So there's the same for me.

849

:

It's the same

850

:

Tali: I have never heard of

Bitcoin described in that way.

851

:

That is the final alignment.

852

:

So I want to dig deeper about that

because I love the way you explain

853

:

it in terms of spirituality.

854

:

Because, I think in America, there's

an of anxiety, So many people are

855

:

on antidepressants and whatever else

they're doing to cope with anxiety.

856

:

And we keep treating

the symptom of anxiety.

857

:

But like you said, what is the core?

858

:

Anxiety doesn't come from nowhere.

859

:

It's not just that we.

860

:

We tend to worry.

861

:

We worry for a reason.

862

:

That's a reaction that our body is

having to something in the environment.

863

:

So talk to us a little

bit more about that.

864

:

It is so fascinating to hear you talk.

865

:

Gillian: Well like you're

saying Anxiety just take me.

866

:

I feel like i'm pretty lucky I'm,

not born into a lot of wealth But

867

:

I was never wanting of anything.

868

:

My parents gave me what I

needed, maybe even more.

869

:

And I have my whole body.

870

:

I don't, I'm not missing anything.

871

:

So, but even then, I know

I, I earned some money.

872

:

I didn't do bad things with my money,

but , I don't know how to protect it.

873

:

I had anxiety, of course, because we don't

know what life is going to cost tomorrow.

874

:

Tomorrow, meaning 10 years

later, 20 years later.

875

:

And it's just the opposite, right?

876

:

When we are older, we want to

not worry about things like this.

877

:

And in this society that we live

in, where the money is totally

878

:

manipulated, it's the opposite.

879

:

You have to worry the older you get.

880

:

When, when we are not, we should

not be thinking about such things.

881

:

And I, I think of that as just, , even

though not all anxieties come from

882

:

money, but a lot of it is related.

883

:

You, you just trace

where the anxiety goes.

884

:

Like it's like following the

money, you actually get to money.

885

:

Right.

886

:

what I try to do in my therapy sessions.

887

:

Is to, like, I want to find

the fastest way, right?

888

:

The easiest, most efficient.

889

:

The things, the thing

that makes sense the most.

890

:

Something that you can

start doing immediately.

891

:

And what is that?

892

:

Well, anxiety and all sorts of inner

discomforts, uh, physical as well.

893

:

They come from a place where

we feel a lack of resource.

894

:

Whether it's inner resources

or outer resources.

895

:

And the inner resource is, , we

forget that we live in gravity,

896

:

but we live in gravity.

897

:

Everything lives in gravity on earth

and nobody really yet understand

898

:

what, understands what gravity is.

899

:

They're still changing their,

, definitions of gravity now, but it

900

:

is a universal force, let's say,

and I can call it the God force

901

:

is acting upon us all the time.

902

:

And if we are not aligned with gravity,

when we're seated, standing, walking,

903

:

running, whatever, we're fighting

with it the whole time, are we not?

904

:

Just like a plant that's not getting

direct sun, it needs to go sideways,

905

:

and now all the parts that are not

supported, not straight, let's say,

906

:

not stacked, it's fighting with gravity.

907

:

And that's why those trees usually tend

to be very skinny, because most of the

908

:

energy is used in also staying upright.

909

:

If we can align our body with gravity,

there is a place, not just the physical,

910

:

, you know, how we put ourselves in poses.

911

:

I don't mean that alignment,

because that is a fake alignment.

912

:

You can do that, but then you're

not going to feel good inside.

913

:

But the one where you feel good

inside, you can actually, uh, you

914

:

can feel that, uh, dropping, where

you're not holding yourself up.

915

:

That is the alignment with gravity.

916

:

And when you, when you're in

that place, not all of us can

917

:

go because of the patterns that

we've, we've lived all our lives.

918

:

And if you're, if your pattern is very

strong or you're, some things are really

919

:

out of alignment, you might not be able

to stand in that place, but you can get

920

:

closer, but let's say you get to roughly

a good place, you will feel that you're.

921

:

Your whole relationship to yourself

and to the outside changes.

922

:

And that is when I, one thing I would call

a resource, that is internal and external.

923

:

Because external, because there is gravity

acting on you, and if you find where

924

:

gravity is, , you can stand effortlessly.

925

:

But if you don't, then you're

fighting with it though.

926

:

And imagine if I'm

sitting like that, right?

927

:

I can be very engaged with you in my mind.

928

:

But I cannot integrate my body, but

most people are not thinking about it.

929

:

And then what is coming out of me

cannot come out from all my cells.

930

:

I can't be speaking to you

with my whole body present,

931

:

agreeing with what I'm saying.

932

:

I need to, because I'm sensing my

body, my body needs to agree with me.

933

:

Otherwise I will feel like I'm lying.

934

:

So all of that.

935

:

Tali: Such an interesting

way to think about life.

936

:

I'm thinking of it in application

to myself and my kids and my husband

937

:

and everybody I know, I wish they

teach this kind of stuff in school.

938

:

We were talking before about

homeschooling and I just feel

939

:

like we've done such a disservice.

940

:

To our kids when we don't teach them

how to build up from inside first We

941

:

are so quick to throw knowledge at

them we just want to fill them up with

942

:

our wisdom and our experiences but

the true strength comes from inside,

943

:

Gillian: Yeah.

944

:

And the funny thing is that

children actually know that place.

945

:

It's the education that

takes them out of that place.

946

:

At least the education

that we've known so far.

947

:

Tali: yeah I feel like

that's another bonus episode.

948

:

we need to do Okay

949

:

Gillian: send you some photos of

what alignment looks like.

950

:

You see it because it's something

we know and we recognize.

951

:

It's not something new you have to learn.

952

:

It's almost like, Oh, of course.

953

:

It's like that.

954

:

Me sitting there is like, of course, you

know, in that workshop of the three days

955

:

where I was crying kind of like that.

956

:

And I feel like Bitcoin is there in

that alignment, but I haven't found

957

:

people in the community, to speak

to about about this, , how, because

958

:

the, I guess Bitcoin is still so new.

959

:

We are still all fighting just for people

to understand it, understand what the

960

:

economy is, and, learn how to use it,

not to be afraid of it, things like that.

961

:

So, , lots of developers working

on it, Noster, , all of that.

962

:

So I totally understand, but

I would love to have some

963

:

conversation or sharing around.

964

:

This other alignment that I feel that

Bitcoin has, because, if we don't do,

965

:

let's say of the, , the noble eightfold

path, if we don't do those three that

966

:

money doesn't touch, we will not live

the whole, let's say, teaching the truth

967

:

for me, the ability to come into what

they call the four, , immeasurables,

968

:

the feeling of love and compassion

and sympathetic joy and equanimity.

969

:

These things, money can't

bring you, it can help you.

970

:

It can help you go there, but unless you

decide to do that work, we don't go there.

971

:

So for me, Hey, we have Bitcoin.

972

:

How come not everyone's going there?

973

:

Because if you have no Bitcoin, I

understand we have so many problems to

974

:

deal with so much suffering in the world,

but Bitcoin can help alleviate all of that

975

:

and let us move further, in our evolution.

976

:

Tali: okay.

977

:

So what would you say to women who are

sitting on the fence, they've heard about

978

:

Bitcoin, they're somewhat skeptical,

they're not going to invest a whole lot

979

:

of time into researching it like you

did listening to podcasts hour after

980

:

hour, until they're at least somewhat

convinced it's a thing they should pursue.

981

:

What would you say to them?

982

:

Gillian: Actually, for me, especially

for women, my current partner, Paola,

983

:

now she actually has a group, a meetup

group in Lisbon for women to help

984

:

give that space for them to ask the

questions that they have and stuff.

985

:

But I think especially for

women, it's so empowering.

986

:

I started out being like, Oh, okay.

987

:

I'm going to first identify

as being a feminist, but it's

988

:

like, wow, it's so empowering.

989

:

And, , it's empowering not only

because you will your own money,

990

:

your custody, your own money,

but to know, to be part of this.

991

:

Evolution of life.

992

:

This is the next step.

993

:

So then if you learn about it,

you're ready for what's coming,

994

:

even if it's not Bitcoin.

995

:

Let's say if there's something better,

it would be some of the thing, right?

996

:

But we'll be going in that direction.

997

:

But the thing is Because I'm a therapist,

I always think this, whatever we

998

:

have discomforts about, because if

you're not interested at all, you

999

:

will not be on the fence, right?

:

00:58:46,232 --> 00:58:47,362

You're, you're not there.

:

00:58:48,432 --> 00:58:51,122

But if you're on the fence, something

is making you uncomfortable.

:

00:58:51,572 --> 00:58:52,962

Look into the discomfort.

:

00:58:53,459 --> 00:58:58,149

Our discomforts are always trying

to tell us something about us.

:

00:58:58,556 --> 00:58:59,946

And it's usually a limitation.

:

00:59:00,372 --> 00:59:02,232

It's something in our belief systems.

:

00:59:02,232 --> 00:59:03,662

It's something in our history.

:

00:59:03,672 --> 00:59:05,202

It's something in the way we think.

:

00:59:05,602 --> 00:59:09,669

Because why would you not

go and find out more, right?

:

00:59:09,769 --> 00:59:12,039

Only after you find out

more you make a decision.

:

00:59:13,184 --> 00:59:17,384

But if there is resistance, resistance

is trying to tell us something.

:

00:59:17,754 --> 00:59:19,664

It's kind of like what they

say in permaculture, right?

:

00:59:19,954 --> 00:59:21,714

The answer is in the problem.

:

00:59:22,257 --> 00:59:27,177

So for me, I will always take every

opportunity in life, whether it's

:

00:59:27,454 --> 00:59:32,034

money related or whatever, that pops

up and says, okay, I find myself

:

00:59:32,064 --> 00:59:33,894

uncomfortable here, what is it?

:

00:59:34,739 --> 00:59:41,072

I want to look more deeply and

that's another empowerment because

:

00:59:41,082 --> 00:59:46,262

the only thing we learn in life is

ourselves more of ourselves, because

:

00:59:46,262 --> 00:59:50,886

we only learn about how we feel

about things, how we react to things.

:

00:59:52,136 --> 00:59:55,286

So the more you learn about

yourself, the more resourced you are.

:

00:59:55,806 --> 01:00:01,802

So I think definitely look at it

that way, instead of it's Bitcoin.

:

01:00:01,932 --> 01:00:03,102

I believe in it or not.

:

01:00:03,102 --> 01:00:05,322

I'm skeptical or not this

and that, because then we're

:

01:00:05,382 --> 01:00:07,412

externalizing everything.

:

01:00:07,472 --> 01:00:13,109

And we don't see the gem in the message,

which is about knowing us ourselves.

:

01:00:14,807 --> 01:00:18,107

Tali: Thanks for joining us today . If

the discussion with our guests

:

01:00:18,157 --> 01:00:21,617

resonated with you and you would

like to dive deeper into the world of

:

01:00:21,647 --> 01:00:25,927

Bitcoin, don't miss out on joining the

Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club.

:

01:00:26,347 --> 01:00:28,067

The meetup link is in the show notes.

:

01:00:28,497 --> 01:00:32,517

Also, if there are women in your life

whom you think would both enjoy and

:

01:00:32,537 --> 01:00:36,517

benefit from learning more about Bitcoin,

please share Orange Hatter with them.

:

01:00:37,177 --> 01:00:38,727

Until next time, bye!

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