Alignment, Spirituality and Transformation

Gillian shares her personal journey of alignment, growth, and self-discovery through various avenues: from studying film in New York and Asian culture in Japan, to her exploration of Rolfing, Pilates, hypnotherapy, and Buddhist Psychotherapy. She explores the profound value of aligning with one's inner identity, environment, and, importantly, with money. After her third encounter with Bitcoin, she made the decision to invest her resources into it. She underlines the empowerment Bitcoin provides, especially for women and encourages self-interrogation when facing resistance or discomfort in exploring new areas like Bitcoin.

00:03 Introduction

00:31 Announcement of the Orange Hatter Women's Retreat

01:34 Guest Introduction and Conversation

01:47 Early Life and Education

03:55 Career in Film and Technology

04:18 Personal Struggles and Self-Discovery

05:36 Journey in Different Countries

08:15 Career Transition into Technology

10:13 Exploration of Self-Identity

13:28 Career in Psychotherapy

17:55 Personal Growth and Future Plans

31:19 Unveiling the Layers of Self-Discovery

31:44 Exploring Zen Buddhism and Consciousness

33:32 The Journey of Self-Realization and Conscious Death

34:14 Experiences of Emotional Struggles and Healing

37:00 The Mystical: Astrology, Starseeds, and Channeling

38:04 The Path of Spiritual Exploration and Transformation

42:33 The Intersection of Bitcoin and Spirituality

42:45 The Journey to Bitcoin and Financial Freedom

45:11 Bitcoin as a Tool for Personal and Financial Alignment

49:31 The Role of Bitcoin in Alleviating Anxiety

57:23 Empowering Women through Bitcoin

01:00:16 Closing Remarks and Invitation to Join the Women's Reading Club

*** Check out the Orange Hatter Women's Retreat @OrangeHatterPod

To learn more about Bitcoin: Join the Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club.  Visit https://www.meetup.com/womensbitcoinreadingclubwithorangehatter

Please email questions/comments to tali@orangehatter.com

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I was trying to free myself and help people free themselves

2

through therapy, but we will never

be free without a free money.

3

This white elephant in the room

was missing in all this therapy and

4

alignment stuff I'm trying to do.

5

We need to align with money.

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That was for me, the

last piece coming together

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Tali: Hey, everybody.

8

Welcome to Orange Hatter.

9

Before we dive into my conversation

with our guest today, I want to share

10

with you a very exciting project,

the Orange Hatter Women's Retreat.

11

The mission of this retreat is to create

a nurturing sanctuary where women in the

12

Bitcoin space can connect with each other,

recharge batteries, find grounding, and

13

form deep friendships so that you don't

feel so isolated where you are sharing

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the potential of Bitcoin with the world

while keeping an eye on the fiat system.

15

This retreat is going to

be absolutely amazing.

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I am partnering with the

Yucatan Project in Mexico.

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The details will be rolled

out later this week.

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Keep an eye out on Twitter

at Orange Hatter Pod.

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I'll give out more information

as they are finalized.

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Spaces are very limited, and

they're going to fill up fast.

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So sign up for it when the registration

and I will see you in Mexico.

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And now we're going to.

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Continue with our podcast.

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Here is my conversation with

our wonderful guests today.

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Hey, Gillian, thank you so much

for coming to Orange Hatter.

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I'm so glad you're here and I can't

wait to dive into your stories.

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Gillian: So thank you for having me.

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Tali: Let's start by just giving

us a little bit of your background.

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Gillian: many, many years ago, 55

years ago, I was born in Malaysia.

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I was raised there till I, till I

was 13 and my parents sent me , to

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Singapore to study because they

have a better educational system.

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It was in English, not MLA, so I was

there for my, uh, secondary school,

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we call it, under the English system.

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But then I, I went to college in the

States because I wanted to study film.

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And there wasn't film

in Asia or in England.

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, but I didn't tell my parents

I was going to study film.

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They wouldn't have

allowed me at that time.

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, so I did go to New York, , all by myself.

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really looking forward , to

finding the America.

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, I thought I knew from the

cinema, from the films that I saw

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growing up, but I didn't find it.

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And most of the films at that time

, were set in California anyway.

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I thought about going to California

or even Boston for film school,

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but then somehow something

asked me to go to New York.

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So I went to New York, the

toughest place at that time.

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But I think New York really

helped to, toughen me up in a way.

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In many ways, you know, , my

own security, safety, I started

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learning Chinese when I was there in

Chinatown because NYU is very close.

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It's still very close to Chinatown I

was, basically ethnically Chinese, but

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I never grew up learning or speaking.

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I spoke some Cantonese, you know, like

home Cantonese, my family's Hakka.

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So they spoke to us, my grandparents

spoke to us in Hakka, but we

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would answer in Cantonese.

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So , I met some people in Hong

Kong in the film industry and

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became good friends with them.

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And that gave me this.

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This whole dream that I was trying

was nurturing at that time is

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that I want to live in Hong Kong.

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I want to be in the film industry,

you know, I want to be with these

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people I see on TV all the time.

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so I went to film school and then started

studying Chinese , in Cantonese, actually

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reading Chinese characters in Cantonese

so that I could read scripts in Hong Kong.

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So when I graduated, went to

Hong Kong, worked for two years.

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, on one of the films where I was

working and filming in Spain, two

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events, live events took place that

just got my attention and said,

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you have to pay attention to these.

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I was 21 at that time.

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I graduated early, you know,

kind of typical Chinese.

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Let's finish your education as fast as

possible, save money and start working.

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So at 21, , when I was abroad

in, , Spain, working on a film,

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two events took place that made me

really have to think about myself.

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And it was about coming out

actually, , as a lesbian at that

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time, but it was so frightening.

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It was 35, how many?

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Yeah.

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No.

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Yeah.

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35 years ago, that I

needed to take time off.

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So I quit.

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The film, the only way I could take

time off without telling my parents

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immediately coming out would be

this is too scary at that time.

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I thought I needed to go back to school.

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So I went for a master's degree, and

I thought I had three cities to choose

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from London, New York, or San Francisco.

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And I chose New York again.

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I wasn't into Europe at that time.

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So just the States and New

York, , because there was somebody

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that I had liked there before.

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So there was some connections.

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So I went back to New York and I got

into a good school because that's the

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only way that I could have convinced

my parents to sponsor me for a master's

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degree, you know, I had to be in an

Ivy league, so I got into Columbia and

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I did that program that was very well

recognized and then moved to Japan.

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I majored , in, , what we call East Asian

languages and cultures and majored in

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Japan, but that's because I had nothing I

wanted to study, but I wanted to find out.

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About my own identity, because the

first time when I went to America,

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I thought, Oh, I'm so happy.

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I'm going to be in America.

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And then I'm like, I'm not American.

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I didn't resonate with any of my

classmates, schoolmates that

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we had to make films together.

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35 years ago, I was wanting to make.

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Films about, okay, coming to

another country on my own.

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And what does this mean?

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And most of my classmates wanted

to make films about car chases,

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sex, smoking, action movies.

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I, I didn't feel like I, I fit it.

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So when this chance came up to, to go take

two years off, , my life, uh, I thought,

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okay, I need to look into my life anyway.

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So I wanted to look more

deeply into my, my identity.

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So I thought, you know, I'm

Asian, I guess, but, , I'm

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so, I only speak English.

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Well, I speak some, I can, I could only

read in English at that time and some

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Malay, but Malay I didn't identify with.

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So I went to Japan and say, I

want the Japanese are Asian.

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But they're so different.

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So I wanted to understand what it was

to be Asian from their perspective.

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So I did my master's in that, went to live

in Japan for a year, loved it, loved being

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learning about Japan and Japanese culture.

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There's so many things.

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I felt like the language, the culture gave

me, how would I say, they kind of made

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real, , some human experience that I would

have had, but now there is a word for it.

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Now there is a group of people

who lived around this concept.

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So it was really nice.

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I felt at home in many ways and yet

totally, totally a foreigner , in Japan.

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, and then I met my first partner there

and, uh, instead of settling down

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in Japan, she was, , sent to teach

Japanese , in Thailand and then We left.

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So we went to Thailand and

subsequently to the States, to

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Spain, and then came back to Japan.

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And that's one part of the story.

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At that time, because I always lived

more for love than anything else.

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, After leaving film, I studied,

well, humanities, but I was

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always interested in food.

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You know, I think that's very Chinese.

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Food.

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And I always wanted to have a restaurant,

a cafe, but somehow it never happened.

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And when we moved, when we moved

to Thailand, I started, that was

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when computers, I always loved

the Mac ever since I saw one.

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So I use the Mac.

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30 years ago when I was

doing graduate school.

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And then , just before, well, when,

when I went to Thailand, so I was,

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I had a Mac, I brought it with

me and I just went deep into it.

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The internet was just

starting at that time.

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So I bought books and books and books

of manuals and I read from first page

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to the last page and I taught myself and

then whatever I didn't know, I found a

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BBS, you know, a bulletin board system.

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At that time, I learned how

to connect to the internet.

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I met all these.

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Men usually, and I'm like, sit

next to them just to hope to ask a

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question that I didn't understand.

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And I was very lucky.

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I've met people who are very

generous and very sincere.

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So I learned a lot.

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And then I kind of created my own job.

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Where my, my partner was working

and I, I, uh, helping them, , put

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their network together and put

them, create a website for them.

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So I was learning every

day and being paid to learn.

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And I was so excited at, like, every day

I would spend more than 10 hours, 15 hours

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just learning and putting things together.

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And so when we left and went to

San Francisco, I was actually got

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a job at that time and one of

those new, , technology companies.

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But, my ex partner

didn't find a job there.

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And We went to New York and we found, we

both found jobs in New York, me, again in

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technology, and she in writing and editing

that gave us, , work visas in the States.

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And that's why we went

back to New York to work.

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But then I had a little bit

too much of New York by that

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time, , that was my third day.

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And then again, this energy from

within when, when change, it's almost

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like that when the transits on your

astrological chart come, there's

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almost like these energies are

bubbling and you know that you need

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to go through some transformation.

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And then I thought I need to go, I need

to leave and I want to go back to, I

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want to go to Spain, you know, cause

I had filmed in Spain before, after my

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first degree, we went to film in Spain.

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And why?

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Because in Spain, I

didn't know the language.

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I didn't, you know, I

didn't know the culture.

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I've never been to Europe at that time.

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And I felt like, , I could, I could kind

of reset, like I could feel like nothing.

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I know nothing here.

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I'm not tied to anything.

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I don't have to play by any rules.

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Now I can feel what I

actually feel inside.

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That was the first taste of, of Spain.

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And then now I'm wanting to deepen.

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So I wanted to go back to Spain.

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So we went, we went, but at that

time, the internet was still just,

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you know, like when we, when I started

the internet, there were only like

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three pages, three websites in the

world that I kept going to, no others.

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So at that time still, We didn't have

the World Wide Web like we have it

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today and my partner being Japanese

and, and Spain at that time was, you

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know, like living in another time,

there was all Asians and Chinese and.

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And you being made fun of sometimes still.

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And so she wanted, you know, again,

pressure from, from Japan, parents,

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Japanese parents think that Japanese women

had to get settled one way or another

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into a job or into a marriage by age 30.

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And we were just at 30 at that time.

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So then we decided to go back

cause she wanted to go back.

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So I went back to Japan

and that's the first part.

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Tali: And that's just the first part.

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I can't believe it.

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I mean, so much has happened.

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Gillian: Yeah, that I was, I was 30 then.

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Now I'm 55.

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Tali: Yeah, so we'll dig into the next 25

years in a minute, but I just want to, I

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just want to ask some follow up questions.

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So you left home when you were 13

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Gillian: Yes.

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Yes.

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Tali: and you were basically independent.

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Gillian: Basically I was sent to

boarding school the first year.

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Yeah, but tough.

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Boarding school in Singapore.

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Tali: I'm sure.

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I'm sure there are stories there.

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, moving around so much like going

to Malaysia, to Singapore, to New

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York, to Japan, to Spain, to Japan,

to Spain, again you have to stay so

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flexible and , almost chameleon like.

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to adapt to your environment.

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Talk to us a little bit about that.

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That must have been a personal

struggle or was it just very easy?

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In your story about adapting to

the internet in those early, early

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days when people were, a lot of

people were questioning if it

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was a real thing to begin with

and you were already deep diving.

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Yeah.

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Walk us through your, your mindset.

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Gillian: Okay.

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So it's an interesting question.

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Never thought about that.

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the first, well, I had some difficulties,

like, you know, trauma growing up at home.

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So in some ways leaving home was It was

a double edged sword for me at that time,

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because I was just doing better at school,

I had good friends, I didn't want to

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leave, but yet, leaving home or leaving

my family would have given me some freedom

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from some breathing space, I felt, and

I, I do believe somehow in timing, and

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I do believe in things happening, um,

in a way that is Not accidental, or we

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can think of it as okay, it happened

and therefore a certain energy is in

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place and then I might ride that energy.

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So it depends on how

we want to look at it.

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But a year before my parents sent me away

at 13, I met some adults, I was kind of

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always precocious, and some adults that

were actors and actresses in Hong Kong,

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who's videotapes I grew up with, watching

these series and I got along very well

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with one of them who was 10 years older

and she was like a big sister to me.

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I was a little sister to her.

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And because I was always looking for

some other, some other, I don't know,

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someone to love me, I guess, you

know, who cared for me, who saw me.

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Who gave me time and attention.

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, I, then when I did well in

school, , my parents, , rewarded

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me with whatever I wanted.

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And I said, I wanted a trip to

Hong Kong by myself and stayed

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with this friend of mine.

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So I spent a whole month there and

I was exposed entirely to the film

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industry, film and TV industry.

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I was with adults all the time.

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I felt I was like one of them.

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And I, from that time, I always

thought I want to go back.

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To Hong Kong.

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So I think and then since then, you

know, after that Hong Kong, let's say

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I went to school in in New York and

immediately the people that came to my

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mind, strangely enough, like, even though

I had trauma at home with All that.

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it's always some overseas Chinese of

family that helped me You know, so in Hong

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Kong, I had these Chinese friends, Hong

Kong friends, they always like open their

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arms to me and like, okay, I want to go.

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So I think most of it.

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I was looking for connection.

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I was looking for love, right?

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Love in the bigger sense.

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And then and I was always looking

for, uh, to learn also that I'm

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always very curious, wanting to

learn, of course, not just everything

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things that I I'm interested in.

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So I didn't think about in terms

of flexibility, but I think

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even, , in school in Singapore

being sent to boarding school.

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There are so many rules.

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That I had to learn to live with

those rules and not be depressed

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, or angry, or even if I were

angry, I couldn't express them.

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Who, to whom could I express?

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I just had to find the best way possible.

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To live through that situation and

still be well, so I think that probably

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trained me some and also growing up, I

think, in the Chinese family, whether

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it's extended family, and there's

lots of drama going on, like the book.

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family, you know, jia, like

ba jing, every, all the

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family stories is your world.

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You have 20, 30 cousins, I don't

know, 20 aunts and uncles and stuff.

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And , to navigate that,

I think was also complex.

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And I think that could

have been part of it.

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And then this other desire to always make

connection, and also recognized, , how

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People were, , I guess I felt gratitude

and appreciation for those people who

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helped me and that Further helped me

to connect with people, you know, so it

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was always a lot about people, like even

in Chinatown , in New York when I was

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studying there, I would go down and I

go to school, Chinese school, , my old

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teacher that always buy a bun and tea to

bring to him and I became friends with

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the people at the bakery, and I became

friends with people at the Chinese,

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you know, uh, what do you call those?

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Roast meat?

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Restaurants and stuff like that.

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So I think that was it.

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I think mostly I had I didn't think that

before but now in retrospect, I always

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had a very rich inner life in a way,

like I had a lot of my life was within,

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and then without was, how do I survive,

how do I have connection, but I think

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the thing that always Pushed me forward

was this inquiry inside, you know,

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because I thought it was because of the

of the trauma I had because you needed

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to somehow deal with the trauma and make

them sit and make it sit okay in yourself.

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Right.

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and then about technology and this, , I

don't know, , I don't know why these

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things happen, but I remember clearly when

I was 12, just before I left Malaysia.

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I remember I drew something like a

video player before I actually saw one.

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So sometimes, you get these

things, downloads or whatever it is.

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I remember that.

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So strangely enough, I remember that.

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And then I was just fascinated by

beauty, , by how, how beautiful

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the Apple computer was compared

to the ugly computers I saw around

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sitting and I never was drawn to it.

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Never.

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And , then I saw this film, , not

even a popular film when I was

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studying in Singapore about how

a computer was responding to you

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like what we have in AI today.

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And I was so excited about it.

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I don't know.

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It's like, wow, it's a different world.

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So when the internet came about.

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And trying to put things together now.

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I know, because now I know myself better.

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I like to solve problems.

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I like to troubleshoot.

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Like, how do you put these?

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How do you make things work?

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And it was totally, uh, the

internet was like that at that time.

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How do you make the modem work?

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Just how, how, how,

how, how the whole time.

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Tali: I think that's really fascinating

that you simultaneously feel power,

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not lifting you up, but almost like

pushing you forward and you have the

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internal energy and you have the inquiry

mindset and the combination of those

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three things brought you to these

just very interesting experiences.

333

And that's just the

first part of your life.

334

So let's jump into the next 25 years.

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Give us a What did you do after that?

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Gillian: what did I do?

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So after we got back to Japan.

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I was again in new place.

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What am I going to do for work again?

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Oh, should I have a cafe?

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Like I love that, but I didn't.

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My partner was working for a

Japanese company that dealt

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with, Writing and manuals and all

that for technology companies.

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And she was an editor.

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And then one of their, um, again, I

think all these things just are meant

346

to be, well, were meant to be one of

the writers, uh, had, I don't know

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what happened to him, but he couldn't.

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Turn out for work.

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So they were desperately

looking for someone.

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And since I have some technology

background and I know both

351

languages, Japanese and English,

they asked me to try it out.

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So I did one manual

and then they loved it.

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And then I just continue.

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Eventually we both became independent,

we started our own company

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became contractors right to them.

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for quite a few years, , I was, , excited

because it was, uh, mobile phones were

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just coming on, the smaller ones, Sony was

picking it, so I was writing the manuals,

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, translating some, , and then those that

were not translated, that were to be

359

written, I got to meet all the engineers.

360

I go to Epson to meet them and find out

about the this commercial, , printer

361

or, , copier that they're going to come

out with and learn about the functions and

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how do you express this in a clear way.

363

, so I guess those qualities I already

have that of curiosity of wanting

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to solve problems were always there.

365

I guess I always like technology

somehow without even knowing it.

366

And then.

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We made pretty good money at that time.

368

Imagine today, you wouldn't, right?

369

You have automatic translation, but even

though Japanese is very hard to translate.

370

but after a few years, I thought,

okay, now I have like 30.

371

One or two, something like that,

or three, no, 34 by that time.

372

It was like, okay, I've done the

thing that I'm supposed to do.

373

I grow up, I go to school, I do well

in school, you come out, you get a

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job, you make sure you can support

yourself, you find a partner, you know,

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and that, okay, I've proven myself.

376

And then, but what now?

377

I, I don't feel like I'm elated,

like I like part of my work, but

378

I don't like other parts of it.

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And all this energy I put into it, how

many people actually read the manual?

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So I thought, my life, why

am I putting my life energy?

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And again, this was another

one of those turning points.

382

And then when you're at those

turning points, at least

383

in my case, messages come.

384

So someone, I, I was also at that time.

385

Doing some things in the gym.

386

I hated the gym actually, but I went

anyway, because there's not enough, parks

387

and all that , to do things outside And

then I started , weight lifting, and then

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I thought, Oh, this doesn't feel right.

389

I don't know how to use and somehow when

I do a squat, my thigh started to hurt.

390

And then that's all

coinciding during this period.

391

And my cousin, who's a doctor

mentioned Pilates, my ex partner's

392

friend mentioned Rolfing.

393

And , somehow I knew I had to look up

and I looked up, I read the page and

394

I'm like, this is what I need to do.

395

So when the timing is right for

me, always in my life has always

396

been like a message of voice.

397

I just know I have to do it.

398

I don't go very deep.

399

I just read a little bit.

400

That's it.

401

That's the right thing to do.

402

I have to.

403

So it was hard at that time to

give up a good business and tell

404

my parents, you know, even at early

stages, much more easy for me.

405

30s, I guess culturally,

maybe it's a cultural thing.

406

I'm still kind of concerned about what my

parents thought and how they would react.

407

, but I, I followed my heart

anyway, and I gave up all of that.

408

Went to Boulder, Colorado to

study Pilates, rolfing, all at

409

the same time, totally different

from what I had done before.

410

I had lots of.

411

Body image issues, , growing up as

a girl, but, , I didn't deal with

412

them, , and I know how you just

deal with them by denying and then

413

saying, Well, I'm just going to do

well in school to make up for it.

414

Right.

415

So, but it came a time when I thought

I really need to look at this.

416

Because I cannot live a

full or authentic life.

417

So, that starts that, journey.

418

, I also had stiff shoulders because I

was at the computer so many hours a day.

419

My little finger on the left

side started to, send a kind of

420

numbness up my arm into my neck.

421

And I didn't know what to do.

422

And it's not something like

the doctors would say, Okay,

423

this is what you need to do.

424

You know.

425

So, I look for the solution elsewhere.

426

So Ralphine being a structural

integration, being a physical modality,

427

you know, you start to feel like,

okay, things are changing in you.

428

Pilates was the hardest for me training

to be an instructor because I have

429

to, within a year, a year and a half.

430

do all those things that you need to

do on top of teaching and learning

431

the anatomy or what goes with it and

movement and all that to be able to

432

perform all of those things yourself

and it was a very good school and

433

they're very strict and they keep up

the standards so And it was physical.

434

It wasn't mental.

435

It was something that had to

be manifested in the body.

436

Yeah.

437

So a year and a half, I did that

lots of yoga and, rolfing school.

438

And then after that, I still felt like

there were parts of deeper parts of

439

myself None of these things touched.

440

It was deep inside my neck.

441

I could feel it.

442

Headaches deep inside of me.

443

Some tension deep inside of me.

444

And then of course I was

looking and the thing came.

445

It was cranial sacral therapy.

446

So I spent another two years

studying cranial sacral

447

therapy and that got deeper.

448

So I guess I was peeling layers.

449

I was peeling layers to myself, meaning

I'm getting to know myself better now.

450

, but even after that, I still, I kind of

felt, okay, now I feel more, uh, readier.

451

I felt readier to meet clients

because clients come and you don't

452

know who they're going to be, right?

453

And how they're going to react to you.

454

But then at that moment, I met one of

the most important teachers of my life.

455

Kind of by accident.

456

Again, no accidents.

457

I was doing craniosacral therapy.

458

, , , that was put together by someone

called Franklin Sills, and he

459

was visiting from England in to

Boulder to teach a cranial course.

460

And the wife was coming so I only knew

her as the wife Franklin's wife, and she

461

was going to teach a three day workshop

called coalescence of compassion.

462

And.

463

My teacher, I asked my teacher in Boulder,

I said, um, should I do this work?

464

How, what is this workshop about?

465

He said, well, she's fantastic.

466

You should do it.

467

But then I was really attracted to

these words, coalescence of compassion.

468

So I did do the workshop three days.

469

I sat there just crying.

470

Yeah, it was like, it wasn't that

kind of, it wasn't like that.

471

It wasn't sobbing was I was seated

there present and tears just

472

rolled down and I understood it as.

473

a resonance, a strong resonance when you

hear truth that you don't hear normally.

474

And you see this person in there

in front of you and you can

475

see something you never saw.

476

It's a kind of presence.

477

It's a kind of being able , to hold the

field and to be with the 20 over of us.

478

there in that workshop in a way that

I had never seen, never experienced.

479

And it moved me so much.

480

So I thought, I want to

study with this person.

481

And I thought I could do something

that's related to cranial,

482

but that course didn't run.

483

And the only thing she was doing

was a master's in psychotherapy,

484

in Buddhist psychotherapy.

485

And I'm like, Psychotherapy?

486

No!

487

I don't want to study psychotherapy.

488

Two years!

489

And on top of that, another year

of, clinical practice or something.

490

I thought about it.

491

I was still hoping, looking

for courses, but there wasn't.

492

And then one or two weeks

later, I thought, Oh, if

493

Maura, her name is Maura Sills.

494

If Maura is going to teach

a singing class, I would go.

495

So why wouldn't I go for

psychotherapy or whatever it is?

496

So I said, okay, I'll go.

497

I decided I applied and I went.

498

And this course was in England, in Devon.

499

So another , two years plus

another year of practice.

500

To write my dissertation and it was the

most important thing I did, I think, at

501

the timing to, you know, when I've done

a lot of things and this needed to come

502

into my life to integrate everything.

503

And only after that experience, because

it wasn't just a learning, a mental

504

learning, it was all about embodiment.

505

It was really living the things that

you would read about the experience.

506

It was only after that course that

I felt, okay, now I'm ready to meet

507

anyone in my practice, you know, that

I felt I would be able to handle in a

508

sincere, truthful, responsible way that

met my standards of being a therapist.

509

And then that would.

510

That would be another part of my life

because after that, , I was still in Japan

511

because I went to England and came back to

Japan, traveling many times in the year.

512

And then, , I separated

from my first partner.

513

And then the third, I would

say the third part would start.

514

I was 40.

515

When, when was it?

516

I was 42.

517

Tali: Wow.

518

I'm just mesmerized by your stories.

519

I , it's absolutely incredible that you

followed , the leading, like you, you say

520

when the timing is right and you get a

download and you have instruction and you

521

would just go, even though it's taking

you from one country to another and from

522

one discipline to another, and then to.

523

Change your course because

you were moved by a teacher.

524

I think that's absolutely fascinating

It makes me want to sit in that

525

room with you and just be able to

feel that because I've heard people

526

Describe experiences like that.

527

I haven't personally experienced and

I I wish I could because I'm very

528

fascinated by the whole Concept of health

and when like you were saying you had

529

to peel off layers because we build

them up when we're growing up, right?

530

So you're you're self protecting and for

you to really find What's inside you got

531

it and it takes time too Like what you

described that you had all these journeys

532

that brought you different places in order

to kind of shed the layers So now I just

533

can't wait to hear what happens next.

534

So keep going.

535

Gillian: You're talking about layers.

536

I just remembered about this.

537

I'm not very good in Chinese Mandarin,

but, you know, Chan, which is Zen

538

Buddhism actually started in China, right?

539

It's just made known by

Japanese Zen Buddhism.

540

So there is a very famous.

541

Poem written by a Zen scholar or zen

practitioner, where the core, the, the

542

core part is the one that is usually, um,

quoted and it, I think you might know.

543

It says,

544

and then,

545

which is like the three of consciousness.

546

So the first one, the third one, which

is in English, if I were to translate,

547

right, it would be like, you look

at the mountain, it's a mountain,

548

you look at the water, it's water,

because water in Chinese usually

549

represents lake, ocean, whatever.

550

And then the second stage would be you

look at the mountain, it's not a mountain,

551

you look at water, it's not water.

552

And then the third stage, you look

at mountain, it's a mountain, then

553

you look at water, it's water.

554

So the first and the third stage,

they look so similar, but it's

555

a totally different reality.

556

Yeah.

557

So that was, that's fascinating,

558

peeling those layers.

559

Like we think when, whenever we think

of something that we, we don't like

560

now, we always think, Oh, we should go

back to the thing, how the past was.

561

It wasn't like that.

562

It's not like that.

563

You know, it's not like, Oh,

if only I were a child again.

564

If only we could be innocent like that.

565

No, you cannot.

566

It's not the place to go.

567

It's the other direction.

568

It's a different kind

of innocence, you know.

569

And that's beautiful.

570

I want that.

571

The thing that I want the most is actually

a conscious death that I choose to go.

572

And that for me would be the

ultimate, uh, reaching of myself

573

Tali: What do you mean conscious death?

574

Gillian: Meaning, like, I know it's

time and I am there with myself.

575

I would imagine I'm probably lying down.

576

I probably wouldn't be seated and die

like those, uh, abbots of the past, but,

577

, probably be lying down and I'm very, very,

very conscious, very aware, very present.

578

And I choose to leave my body.

579

I've had those experiences.

580

I felt like During this third part of

my life, after the separation, I was at

581

that time actually in a relationship with

someone, , who's married, thinking that

582

she would be leaving the relationship.

583

That's the impression I

got, but it didn't happen.

584

And then it got drawn out and was

very painful for me because it

585

was antithetical to everything

I found, I cherished in life.

586

Openness, honesty.

587

You know, uh, just feeling

totally free in what you're doing.

588

And that pushed me to, and because

of the nature of that relationship,

589

it pushed me to go deeper.

590

And I wouldn't have if I didn't.

591

But because there are two times in my

life I felt like, you know, like you

592

felt, you feel like you're totally

without, energy that you just have to,

593

you don't have agency anymore, almost.

594

Like, you just need to survive.

595

The first was a very interesting

experience in, Buddhist psychotherapy

596

school where we sit together.

597

And because I just don't know how

to tell you, I don't think this is a

598

very common experience where, , the

teachers were so skillful to, because

599

a lot of things need to be allowed

to come onto the surface, right?

600

And then that's when you

have a chance to resolve it.

601

Just like the economy, you know, so,

but the people holding that space for

602

that to happen is what makes a difference

to on top of the players, of course,

603

but there was this experience when

I was in a circle with that group in

604

school, but I felt I was decimated into

like little pieces like I disappeared.

605

You know, it's a very interesting

experience to not be so solid, to not

606

be like, you know, like you say, we

have learned, we learn to survive.

607

Right.

608

And usually there's a bit of solidity

in that survival and that beingness.

609

And then the second time was, , when , in

this relationship, I had a difficult

610

time when that person just cut off

contact with me when she was sick.

611

And that was too much for me to handle.

612

And I felt like I wasn't,

I just lost all my energy.

613

I couldn't, that was like a big hole

that no matter what energy came out.

614

It would just drain and that kind of

state was the only reason I guess why

615

you would just do whatever someone

that you trust will tell you and that

616

someone was one of my ex classmate from

the Buddhist psychotherapy training.

617

And she said, Hey, you know, maybe

you should see this astrologer.

618

I said, okay, and I went online, I

saw the astrologer, and then that

619

astrologer then mentioned some things.

620

It's not even important anymore what

she, what we talked about, but again,

621

you know, these messages come, and

there were two things she mentioned that

622

made me, okay, I gotta look up more.

623

She told me about, , star seeds,

and she told me about Bashar.

624

Do you know Bashar?

625

Tali: I don't know But sure,

but I have heard of starseeds

626

, , Gillian: so Bashar is a extraterrestrial

entity that's channeled, has been

627

channeled for 40 years now by a

filmmaker, actually, in Los Angeles.

628

And his teachings for

me, they're just perfect.

629

They just speak directly to me.

630

They're very clear.

631

There's nothing, no cult, no

religion, no nothing, just more

632

like, , quantum physics and

633

just another way of looking at the same

thing, just change your perspective,

634

same thing, and it's totally different.

635

So, from there, I was more exposed to,

I started listening to his things on

636

YouTube, you know, just trying to recover.

637

And then the thing from the

starseeds led me to Dolores Cannon.

638

She's passed since.

639

that time, but she's written books and

books about hypnotherapy and how she

640

would encounter, you know, about Dolores.

641

Yeah.

642

And she would encounter these,

what she calls a subconscious that

643

is a larger presence that would

then she would be talking to and

644

getting all this information.

645

So it started me on this kind of

more, areas where in life, , maybe

646

given my, , tendency towards, I

don't know, I guess practicality I

647

may not have dived into, but I did.

648

And then through Bashar.

649

, I went to swim with the dolphins.

650

I went to swim with the whales.

651

And then I, I was also teaching rolfing.

652

but then I met somebody, uh, while I was

teaching that told me about ayahuasca.

653

Actually, the second time I heard about

ayahuasca, the first time was when I was

654

in rolfing school and I visited Brazil,

but it didn't speak to me at that time.

655

But then this second time,

I thought, oh, it's time.

656

And then I asked and it was in Peru.

657

So during those few years, I was

intensely doing all these kinds of things.

658

I went to all kinds of, , Bruce

Lipton, you probably have heard of.

659

The biology of belief.

660

I did the psych K thing

that he recommended.

661

It just went everywhere.

662

And I did shamanic studies.

663

, went to Esalen, did a lot of other

things, tapping, all kinds of things.

664

And, , five rhythms, which I love also.

665

Have you, do you know about five rhythms?

666

It's a, it's a kind of dance where you,

you really can transform through it.

667

Yeah.

668

So, It just totally now opened my

life to something else, but I thought

669

they were all necessary to make my

life more well rounded and fuller.

670

And during one of these classes, the Site

K class that Bruce Lipton, , recommended.

671

Where was I?

672

I don't remember.

673

Somewhere in the States.

674

iT was during that time I had

done a death and dying workshop

675

in the shamanic studies.

676

Where you could, go and help

those people who had not moved on.

677

To move on and then right after that

I did this workshop and this workshop

678

is about reprogramming yourself and

I was very much into being deep into

679

myself, and I already know how to go

into get into the cranial state by that

680

time, so that those few nights when I

was doing the course at night, I would

681

feel like I could feel like my, I could

will my a a energy to leave my body.

682

And I had done some, , hypnosis work too.

683

And in the hypnosis, sometimes you

can also feel that kind of leaving.

684

So then I, I could, I felt

like, wow, I can will myself.

685

So I start to learn to how, how can

I fall asleep in a different way?

686

How do I, so those things.

687

And when I felt, okay, there is a way

where I can, and in one of the hypnosis,

688

I was Leaving my body when I died in that

life, because this is, , Michael Newton's

689

work on, , hypnosis and what is it called?

690

, I forget now journey of souls.

691

I think the book about what

you're learning as a soul.

692

So the hypnosis always

brings you to your death.

693

So in that death, I, I could literally

feel my energy, leave my body.

694

It was very embodied.

695

So I remember all of this.

696

I put things together and during those

few nights, I felt like I could actually

697

leave and come back, leave and come back.

698

Not, not far.

699

I'm not those that you go

astral traveling and come back.

700

No, it was really real here.

701

Like I would go up to up,

maybe up to the ceiling.

702

I'm like, Oh, my hand.

703

Is it going to go through the ceiling?

704

Things like that, but it was very real.

705

So that's what I like to do.

706

When I know it's time.

707

Tali: very, very fascinating.

708

I think we're going to have to do a bonus

episode to dive deeper because, , , I just

709

think that , this area is very mysterious.

710

And a lot of people probably have

a great misunderstanding of the

711

experiences you're talking about.

712

So we'll do a deep dive on that

in a, in a different episode.

713

But so, okay, so I feel like your life

has prepped you to the point where

714

you're going to encounter Bitcoin.

715

Gillian: Totally.

716

Totally.

717

It

718

Tali: talk about that.

719

Gillian: So, actually, it was a

third encounter that I listened.

720

Because that was when I wanted something.

721

I needed something.

722

But I remember the first time,

because I'm so into computers.

723

Many years ago, probably in

724

Somebody asked me, hey, do you

want to do this mining thing?

725

I said, what?

726

Like, what do I have to do?

727

I said, Oh, you have to turn, keep

your Mac book on the whole time.

728

I said the whole time.

729

No, no, I'm not going to, it's going

to kill my, my book, my Mac book.

730

I thought, so I didn't do it.

731

And then the second time I was already

a therapist and someone asked if

732

I would take Bitcoin for therapy.

733

And I, I mean, for rolfing or something.

734

And I said, no.

735

, because I'm like, what?

736

Bitcoin, what am I going to do with it?

737

I don't, it's too much trouble.

738

And then the third time was

when I, it was very late.

739

It was 2020.

740

I wasn't, I was living in Lisbon

then and the pandemic started.

741

, I.

742

moved with my partner, my current

partner to, after six months in

743

Lisbon, I said, no, we need nature.

744

We moved to live in Bali for a year.

745

During that time, I was

thinking something's not right.

746

What's going to happen?

747

Like something's just not, I've been

asking like, Hey, where should, which

748

bank should I put my money into?

749

Because, this money thing is not small.

750

It's not a small matter

in a Chinese family.

751

It's central.

752

And I always pushed back on investments,

you know, things my parents, my

753

family, my sisters were interested in.

754

It never felt right to me.

755

And every time I try to do

something, I would fail.

756

So I said, no more.

757

And then I thought, never, I

just keep my money in the bank.

758

Right.

759

I didn't know about inflation.

760

I mean, I did, but I didn't

know everything at that time.

761

So I thought.

762

Nothing.

763

And I can't just invest into any

fund or any company because I don't

764

agree with the things they're doing.

765

So I'm like, what do I do with my money?

766

Just leave it there in a term deposit.

767

And I let that happen for like 20 years.

768

I was once rich , and

then I wasn't anymore.

769

And then I was like.

770

What do I do?

771

Which bank should I put my money in?

772

It's going to collapse.

773

So then I asked a friend who was more into

these things and he mentioned Bitcoin.

774

This time it was different.

775

Bitcoin.

776

That's it.

777

It's like when I heard Pilates,

Rolfing, or when I met Maura.

778

And then I just, he sent me two videos.

779

They're not even the best videos,

like Raoul Paul, not the right person

780

for Bitcoin, but it didn't matter.

781

I just listened.

782

I'm like, this is it.

783

This is it.

784

And I started, I know nothing because

I had stopped being in technology

785

for a long time going into these

alternative medicine or therapies.

786

And I just had to start from scratch.

787

So every day, every day in Bali,

while I was gardening, I was listening

788

to podcasts nonstop, so many holes,

so many holes, but immediately I

789

thought this is the right thing to do.

790

And immediately I bought some,

my friend , held my hand and

791

showed me how to use Kraken.

792

And then.

793

It was December in 2020, and then the

price was just going up like crazy.

794

But then I thought, I have to

do that to get my money out.

795

And because I've lived in so many

countries, I had bank accounts in

796

so many countries, and the more I

wanted to take out, the more difficult

797

I realized it was going to be.

798

They wouldn't give me my money.

799

It's like, what?

800

Like, why do you ask all these

questions when I'm going to do?

801

So, but I was able to,

and I was very lucky.

802

, I just put everything into it.

803

Everything.

804

Because that's the only way

I felt I didn't have to worry

805

about what's going to happen.

806

and I didn't know when it was going to

happen and it felt so right that with

807

this money we can finally be free.

808

So I was trying to free myself

and help people free themselves

809

, through therapy, but we will never

be free without a free money.

810

And I was like this white elephant in

the room was missing in all this therapy

811

and alignment stuff I'm trying to do.

812

We need to align with money.

813

And so that was actually for me, the last

piece coming together, although probably

814

money is the first piece of many people,

but it's like it had to come last for me.

815

And like, this is it.

816

This is the final

alignment needs to be made.

817

We cannot write the

Buddha was able to do it.

818

But how many people can be Buddha

He had to go through all he lived

819

in a time of manipulated money.

820

Even though he had it, but it's still

he was worried about concerned about

821

other people, and he was looking for

a way within right to find happiness

822

and peace and equanimity in that world.

823

And he found it right and he

taught us he gave us the teachings.

824

But imagine if we didn't, if that

money part was taken care of, how

825

much easier, how much, well, not

necessarily that we would do it

826

anyway, because it's still a choice.

827

Because I actually did, , I gave

a presentation , , this year in a

828

small Bitcoin conference retreat in

the Philippines, in Boracay Island.

829

And I did one on Bitcoin and spirituality

and So I took the teaching, The Four

830

Noble Truths, the Buddha's teaching,

where the fourth truth is the Eightfold

831

Path, the Noble Eightfold Path.

832

And if you look at all the Noble

Eightfold Path, Bitcoin, or sound

833

money like Bitcoin, can help you really

more easily achieve, Five of them.

834

But the last three are out.

835

We need to want to beat that.

836

We need to go into meditation.

837

We need to want to go deeper

into ourselves beyond money.

838

What money can help of

sound money can help.

839

So for me, telling people about

Bitcoin, helping people understand,

840

helping people use it self custody.

841

That's my thing.

842

I really want to help people do that.

843

It's the same as for me giving a session.

844

Of alignment.

845

How do you find your body?

846

How do you find a line in yourself

where your physical body your emotions

847

your thoughts and your spirit are one

and at peace So what do we need to do?

848

So there's the same for me.

849

It's the same

850

Tali: I have never heard of

Bitcoin described in that way.

851

That is the final alignment.

852

So I want to dig deeper about that

because I love the way you explain

853

it in terms of spirituality.

854

Because, I think in America, there's

an of anxiety, So many people are

855

on antidepressants and whatever else

they're doing to cope with anxiety.

856

And we keep treating

the symptom of anxiety.

857

But like you said, what is the core?

858

Anxiety doesn't come from nowhere.

859

It's not just that we.

860

We tend to worry.

861

We worry for a reason.

862

That's a reaction that our body is

having to something in the environment.

863

So talk to us a little

bit more about that.

864

It is so fascinating to hear you talk.

865

Gillian: Well like you're

saying Anxiety just take me.

866

I feel like i'm pretty lucky I'm,

not born into a lot of wealth But

867

I was never wanting of anything.

868

My parents gave me what I

needed, maybe even more.

869

And I have my whole body.

870

I don't, I'm not missing anything.

871

So, but even then, I know

I, I earned some money.

872

I didn't do bad things with my money,

but , I don't know how to protect it.

873

I had anxiety, of course, because we don't

know what life is going to cost tomorrow.

874

Tomorrow, meaning 10 years

later, 20 years later.

875

And it's just the opposite, right?

876

When we are older, we want to

not worry about things like this.

877

And in this society that we live

in, where the money is totally

878

manipulated, it's the opposite.

879

You have to worry the older you get.

880

When, when we are not, we should

not be thinking about such things.

881

And I, I think of that as just, , even

though not all anxieties come from

882

money, but a lot of it is related.

883

You, you just trace

where the anxiety goes.

884

Like it's like following the

money, you actually get to money.

885

Right.

886

what I try to do in my therapy sessions.

887

Is to, like, I want to find

the fastest way, right?

888

The easiest, most efficient.

889

The things, the thing

that makes sense the most.

890

Something that you can

start doing immediately.

891

And what is that?

892

Well, anxiety and all sorts of inner

discomforts, uh, physical as well.

893

They come from a place where

we feel a lack of resource.

894

Whether it's inner resources

or outer resources.

895

And the inner resource is, , we

forget that we live in gravity,

896

but we live in gravity.

897

Everything lives in gravity on earth

and nobody really yet understand

898

what, understands what gravity is.

899

They're still changing their,

, definitions of gravity now, but it

900

is a universal force, let's say,

and I can call it the God force

901

is acting upon us all the time.

902

And if we are not aligned with gravity,

when we're seated, standing, walking,

903

running, whatever, we're fighting

with it the whole time, are we not?

904

Just like a plant that's not getting

direct sun, it needs to go sideways,

905

and now all the parts that are not

supported, not straight, let's say,

906

not stacked, it's fighting with gravity.

907

And that's why those trees usually tend

to be very skinny, because most of the

908

energy is used in also staying upright.

909

If we can align our body with gravity,

there is a place, not just the physical,

910

, you know, how we put ourselves in poses.

911

I don't mean that alignment,

because that is a fake alignment.

912

You can do that, but then you're

not going to feel good inside.

913

But the one where you feel good

inside, you can actually, uh, you

914

can feel that, uh, dropping, where

you're not holding yourself up.

915

That is the alignment with gravity.

916

And when you, when you're in

that place, not all of us can

917

go because of the patterns that

we've, we've lived all our lives.

918

And if you're, if your pattern is very

strong or you're, some things are really

919

out of alignment, you might not be able

to stand in that place, but you can get

920

closer, but let's say you get to roughly

a good place, you will feel that you're.

921

Your whole relationship to yourself

and to the outside changes.

922

And that is when I, one thing I would call

a resource, that is internal and external.

923

Because external, because there is gravity

acting on you, and if you find where

924

gravity is, , you can stand effortlessly.

925

But if you don't, then you're

fighting with it though.

926

And imagine if I'm

sitting like that, right?

927

I can be very engaged with you in my mind.

928

But I cannot integrate my body, but

most people are not thinking about it.

929

And then what is coming out of me

cannot come out from all my cells.

930

I can't be speaking to you

with my whole body present,

931

agreeing with what I'm saying.

932

I need to, because I'm sensing my

body, my body needs to agree with me.

933

Otherwise I will feel like I'm lying.

934

So all of that.

935

Tali: Such an interesting

way to think about life.

936

I'm thinking of it in application

to myself and my kids and my husband

937

and everybody I know, I wish they

teach this kind of stuff in school.

938

We were talking before about

homeschooling and I just feel

939

like we've done such a disservice.

940

To our kids when we don't teach them

how to build up from inside first We

941

are so quick to throw knowledge at

them we just want to fill them up with

942

our wisdom and our experiences but

the true strength comes from inside,

943

Gillian: Yeah.

944

And the funny thing is that

children actually know that place.

945

It's the education that

takes them out of that place.

946

At least the education

that we've known so far.

947

Tali: yeah I feel like

that's another bonus episode.

948

we need to do Okay

949

Gillian: send you some photos of

what alignment looks like.

950

You see it because it's something

we know and we recognize.

951

It's not something new you have to learn.

952

It's almost like, Oh, of course.

953

It's like that.

954

Me sitting there is like, of course, you

know, in that workshop of the three days

955

where I was crying kind of like that.

956

And I feel like Bitcoin is there in

that alignment, but I haven't found

957

people in the community, to speak

to about about this, , how, because

958

the, I guess Bitcoin is still so new.

959

We are still all fighting just for people

to understand it, understand what the

960

economy is, and, learn how to use it,

not to be afraid of it, things like that.

961

So, , lots of developers working

on it, Noster, , all of that.

962

So I totally understand, but

I would love to have some

963

conversation or sharing around.

964

This other alignment that I feel that

Bitcoin has, because, if we don't do,

965

let's say of the, , the noble eightfold

path, if we don't do those three that

966

money doesn't touch, we will not live

the whole, let's say, teaching the truth

967

for me, the ability to come into what

they call the four, , immeasurables,

968

the feeling of love and compassion

and sympathetic joy and equanimity.

969

These things, money can't

bring you, it can help you.

970

It can help you go there, but unless you

decide to do that work, we don't go there.

971

So for me, Hey, we have Bitcoin.

972

How come not everyone's going there?

973

Because if you have no Bitcoin, I

understand we have so many problems to

974

deal with so much suffering in the world,

but Bitcoin can help alleviate all of that

975

and let us move further, in our evolution.

976

Tali: okay.

977

So what would you say to women who are

sitting on the fence, they've heard about

978

Bitcoin, they're somewhat skeptical,

they're not going to invest a whole lot

979

of time into researching it like you

did listening to podcasts hour after

980

hour, until they're at least somewhat

convinced it's a thing they should pursue.

981

What would you say to them?

982

Gillian: Actually, for me, especially

for women, my current partner, Paola,

983

now she actually has a group, a meetup

group in Lisbon for women to help

984

give that space for them to ask the

questions that they have and stuff.

985

But I think especially for

women, it's so empowering.

986

I started out being like, Oh, okay.

987

I'm going to first identify

as being a feminist, but it's

988

like, wow, it's so empowering.

989

And, , it's empowering not only

because you will your own money,

990

your custody, your own money,

but to know, to be part of this.

991

Evolution of life.

992

This is the next step.

993

So then if you learn about it,

you're ready for what's coming,

994

even if it's not Bitcoin.

995

Let's say if there's something better,

it would be some of the thing, right?

996

But we'll be going in that direction.

997

But the thing is Because I'm a therapist,

I always think this, whatever we

998

have discomforts about, because if

you're not interested at all, you

999

will not be on the fence, right?

00:58:46,232 --> 00:58:47,362

You're, you're not there.

00:58:48,432 --> 00:58:51,122

But if you're on the fence, something

is making you uncomfortable.

00:58:51,572 --> 00:58:52,962

Look into the discomfort.

00:58:53,459 --> 00:58:58,149

Our discomforts are always trying

to tell us something about us.

00:58:58,556 --> 00:58:59,946

And it's usually a limitation.

00:59:00,372 --> 00:59:02,232

It's something in our belief systems.

00:59:02,232 --> 00:59:03,662

It's something in our history.

00:59:03,672 --> 00:59:05,202

It's something in the way we think.

00:59:05,602 --> 00:59:09,669

Because why would you not

go and find out more, right?

00:59:09,769 --> 00:59:12,039

Only after you find out

more you make a decision.

00:59:13,184 --> 00:59:17,384

But if there is resistance, resistance

is trying to tell us something.

00:59:17,754 --> 00:59:19,664

It's kind of like what they

say in permaculture, right?

00:59:19,954 --> 00:59:21,714

The answer is in the problem.

00:59:22,257 --> 00:59:27,177

So for me, I will always take every

opportunity in life, whether it's

00:59:27,454 --> 00:59:32,034

money related or whatever, that pops

up and says, okay, I find myself

00:59:32,064 --> 00:59:33,894

uncomfortable here, what is it?

00:59:34,739 --> 00:59:41,072

I want to look more deeply and

that's another empowerment because

00:59:41,082 --> 00:59:46,262

the only thing we learn in life is

ourselves more of ourselves, because

00:59:46,262 --> 00:59:50,886

we only learn about how we feel

about things, how we react to things.

00:59:52,136 --> 00:59:55,286

So the more you learn about

yourself, the more resourced you are.

00:59:55,806 --> 01:00:01,802

So I think definitely look at it

that way, instead of it's Bitcoin.

01:00:01,932 --> 01:00:03,102

I believe in it or not.

01:00:03,102 --> 01:00:05,322

I'm skeptical or not this

and that, because then we're

01:00:05,382 --> 01:00:07,412

externalizing everything.

01:00:07,472 --> 01:00:13,109

And we don't see the gem in the message,

which is about knowing us ourselves.

01:00:14,807 --> 01:00:18,107

Tali: Thanks for joining us today . If

the discussion with our guests

01:00:18,157 --> 01:00:21,617

resonated with you and you would

like to dive deeper into the world of

01:00:21,647 --> 01:00:25,927

Bitcoin, don't miss out on joining the

Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club.

01:00:26,347 --> 01:00:28,067

The meetup link is in the show notes.

01:00:28,497 --> 01:00:32,517

Also, if there are women in your life

whom you think would both enjoy and

01:00:32,537 --> 01:00:36,517

benefit from learning more about Bitcoin,

please share Orange Hatter with them.

01:00:37,177 --> 01:00:38,727

Until next time, bye!