Artwork for podcast You Are Not A Frog
The 4 Books to Read This Summer to Set Up Your Next 6 Months for Success
Episode 28129th July 2025 • You Are Not A Frog • Dr Rachel Morris
00:00:00 00:33:04

Share Episode

Shownotes

Essential reading to help you learn more about your brain and the brains of those around you, do less, and make decisions from a place of clarity.

Get more episodes and resources by joining FrogXtra

Mentioned in this episode:

FrogFest Virtual – The Boundary Hunters
Tuesday 25th November

FrogXtra Gold
Join the Frog podcast community

Transcripts

Speaker:

Welcome to a summer Quick dip with a difference.

Speaker:

I'm joined by Dr. Sarah Coope.

Speaker:

Sarah,

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Great.

Speaker:

Thank you.

Speaker:

Rachel.

Speaker:

Yes, so I'm working with you now as head of training at Wild Monday.

Speaker:

I'm a former GP and an executive coach with a real interesting conflict

Speaker:

resolution and burnout prevention as well.

Speaker:

Great to have you with me.

Speaker:

The reason we got Sarah with us on this quick dip is I thought, what do

Speaker:

people wanna know over the summer?

Speaker:

And I don't know about you, but when I'm going away on holiday, I just

Speaker:

need to know what I'm gonna read.

Speaker:

I'm quite obsessed with books and whether this is reading or whether this

Speaker:

is audio books, I know a lot of people are really finding that audio books are

Speaker:

just really brilliant for them right now, but I love just getting some new

Speaker:

ideas and, and stuff to think about.

Speaker:

So we thought we would give a rundown of our top books to read over the summer.

Speaker:

This is a You Are Not a Frog quick dip, a tiny taster of the kinds of things we

Speaker:

talk about on our full podcast episodes.

Speaker:

I've chosen today's topic to give you a helpful boost in the time it

Speaker:

takes to have a cup of tea so you can return to whatever else you're

Speaker:

up to feeling energized and inspired.

Speaker:

For more tools, tips, and insights to help you thrive at work, don't

Speaker:

forget to subscribe to You Are Not a Frog wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker:

I was at a training session.

Speaker:

I did a whole Shapes Toolkit for consultants last week, and at the end

Speaker:

somebody came up to me and she, he said, Rachel, if you're gonna recommend

Speaker:

just one book, what would it be?

Speaker:

So I've got that recommendation with me.

Speaker:

We've got another few.

Speaker:

Um, in fact, as I'm saying that, I'm thinking of other books I wanna talk

Speaker:

about that I haven't even got with me.

Speaker:

But anyway, I've I've got my, I've got my pile.

Speaker:

Um, Sarah, I know you read a lot.

Speaker:

What sort of books do you like to read when you go away and why?

Speaker:

Yeah, I always pack far too many books, but, and then find other

Speaker:

books on my Kindle probably while I'm, while I'm away as well.

Speaker:

But I tend to take at least two sort of just easy to read self-development books,

Speaker:

often ones I've read before that I just think I wanna go through that again.

Speaker:

I do like a bit of fiction as well, some crime detective novels, but we're

Speaker:

not gonna talk about those today.

Speaker:

What about you?

Speaker:

What sort of things do you like to pack?

Speaker:

Rubbish crime.

Speaker:

Rubbish crime fiction.

Speaker:

I'm a big fan of the, uh, St. Mary's um, Chronicles, which I found about in the

Speaker:

medics, uh, book group actually, which could, but I'm not gonna talk about them.

Speaker:

Let's talk about these sort of self-development books because you know,

Speaker:

my other half course the self-help books, they're not, they are self-development

Speaker:

books and I can genuinely say they've changed my life and this is where I got

Speaker:

into all this stuff around, you know, personal efficacy, self-awareness,

Speaker:

resilience, all, all that sort of thing.

Speaker:

And books are amazing.

Speaker:

Can I just say there's so much in a book, like you might spend a thousand

Speaker:

pounds on someone's course and then you find the book and they've pretty

Speaker:

much written it all in the book.

Speaker:

It does take a little bit more effort though, I guess, and that's why maybe some

Speaker:

people, people really struggle with it.

Speaker:

A quick tip for people is that all the books we talk, we talk about today, if

Speaker:

you are not a big fan of reading and you don't get one with audio books either,

Speaker:

you can often find podcasts where the authors have gone on the podcast and

Speaker:

pretty much summarize the entire book.

Speaker:

So that's the way I digest a lot of these things is listen to some of

Speaker:

the podcasts, hear some new authors think, oh, that's an interesting

Speaker:

book, i'll, I'll go and get that.

Speaker:

So I'll listen to them first on the podcast and then I'll, then

Speaker:

I'll go and, and buy the book.

Speaker:

It seems like a bit more of a, possible way of doing it.

Speaker:

You're sort of screening it, pre-screening it beforehand.

Speaker:

But, um, yeah.

Speaker:

Sarah, what would be, if, if someone came to you and said, what one book

Speaker:

would be helpful for me to read over the summer, what would you be saying?

Speaker:

So I've got a couple of books, I'll show you one of them.

Speaker:

So one is Rediscovered And that's by Catherine Asta that

Speaker:

came out earlier this year.

Speaker:

So this book is written for, um, late discovered or late diagnosed

Speaker:

women who are autistic or ADHD, but particularly autistic women

Speaker:

and it says, and their allies.

Speaker:

So I found it really interesting as a doctor and as a late discovered, um,

Speaker:

autistic person myself at the age of 49 last year, uh, to read that and

Speaker:

understand it's a bit like someone, well she, she, the Catherine Asta, the author

Speaker:

is, um, also late discovered autistic.

Speaker:

And, and so very much as I've read through that, it's really struck me, just,

Speaker:

um, my experience understanding that, understanding as a doctor as well as a

Speaker:

former GP what I didn't know I didn't know about some of the presentations

Speaker:

of autism, particularly in women.

Speaker:

So I think a lot of medics would find that really insightful.

Speaker:

She talks a lot about the research that's been done there, the research

Speaker:

that's needed to be done, and also give some really positive, um, advice and

Speaker:

strategies for people who either are autistic or train support, supervise,

Speaker:

have members of their family, friends who also are, and just ways of, of

Speaker:

really understanding the world for them, which, um, yeah, for, for myself was,

Speaker:

has been a big, a big learning curve over the last sort of six, nine months.

Speaker:

And what were the aha moments that you thought, God, I wish I'd known that 10

Speaker:

years ago when I was working as a GP?

Speaker:

I think as a, from a GP perspective, it was understanding that some of

Speaker:

the physical presentations such as hypermobility, so like EllisDon

Speaker:

syndrome, migraine, um, chronic, chronic pelvic pain, recurrent UTIs,

Speaker:

uh, polycystic ovarian syndrome.

Speaker:

Some of those conditions are much more common in neurodivergent individuals.

Speaker:

And I never knew that.

Speaker:

And looking at, at your reaction, I'm guessing

Speaker:

I didn't know that.

Speaker:

No.

Speaker:

No, and I think it's fairly recent research, um, that's shown that,

Speaker:

but I, it just makes so much sense, um, that it's chronic inflammation,

Speaker:

chronic stress that is often underlying a lot of those conditions.

Speaker:

And so, so for, for people, especially women who probably have that additional

Speaker:

stress of being trained and conditioned to mask so much more from an early

Speaker:

stage will often present in those ways also chronic fatigue, other things like

Speaker:

that that we've often, as doctors, not always known, and I'm sure there's so

Speaker:

much work still to be done, isn't it?

Speaker:

But not, you know, not always known what underlying causes are.

Speaker:

And I'm not saying that for every person with those, those conditions,

Speaker:

then it would be neurodivergence as the underlying cause.

Speaker:

I think it's about thinking about that.

Speaker:

Um, I remember when I taught medical students, I'd often say, you know,

Speaker:

what else could it be when you think about the differential diagnosis?

Speaker:

So that's just asking that question in order to consider it.

Speaker:

That's interesting because I was thinking, gosh, is that genetically linked?

Speaker:

But no, that makes sense.

Speaker:

That actually it's the stress that comes with, um, that maybe ne being

Speaker:

neuro divergent and this masking that people have to do to just like survive

Speaker:

in the, the real world, which causes inflammation in the, the cortisol.

Speaker:

I mean, there is that, it's looking like there's a genetic component

Speaker:

or has looked like that for quite a long time, I think with, with a lot

Speaker:

of neurodivergent conditions and of course the complexity with trauma

Speaker:

in early life and, and those things.

Speaker:

But, so that was an aha moment, I think for me as a medic.

Speaker:

And then for me as a, as a late discovered autistic woman who had no idea until

Speaker:

a, maybe a year ago, started to wonder.

Speaker:

And then it's just made so much sense, understanding about burnout on repeat,

Speaker:

understanding about, um, just masking and the cost that, that, that is for, for

Speaker:

people like myself, just how we're able to mask, and it's not about pretending, it's

Speaker:

just what we are required to do, often to, to fit in and, and the difference

Speaker:

that that can make in terms of just that sensory overload and exhaustion.

Speaker:

So I think that's been very validating and then helping, helping me understand

Speaker:

just what autism means in that way.

Speaker:

And also just.

Speaker:

I think we have to deal with people's reactions.

Speaker:

I'm only recently sharing my diagnosis 'cause it takes a

Speaker:

little bit of processing myself.

Speaker:

And of course, you know, she talks in the book a lot about people's

Speaker:

reactions to herself as a psychologist, sharing her diagnosis and how

Speaker:

they'll be the typical response.

Speaker:

Well you don't look autistic or, well you can't be autistic 'cause

Speaker:

you make eye contact or you can't be autistic 'cause you empathize.

Speaker:

And just understanding actually that's, you know, that's not true.

Speaker:

there's such a diverse, obviously diverse presentation in so many

Speaker:

people and often a lot of autistic people have those as their strengths.

Speaker:

So that's the book for you.

Speaker:

If you maybe think you might be autistic or have ADHD yourself, just

Speaker:

to understand yourself a bit more, but also you think all healthcare

Speaker:

professionals should probably read it just so that they can spot some

Speaker:

of these signs in their patients.

Speaker:

I think so.

Speaker:

And particularly in women because.

Speaker:

Again, the research is showing.

Speaker:

It is, it does present differently, often.

Speaker:

I'm generalizing, but different often in women, especially women

Speaker:

of, of my generation, um, just because of some of the conditioning.

Speaker:

So I think it's very interesting to read.

Speaker:

Yeah, and, and worth just checking out for, for discussion.

Speaker:

I think it'd be a great discussion for book to discuss at, say a peer study

Speaker:

group or something like that, just to say, oh, what did, what have you learned?

Speaker:

What did you know, not know?

Speaker:

And, uh, what will you do differently?

Speaker:

I love that idea.

Speaker:

You know, so if, if people are lacking a bit of connection once

Speaker:

there's bit of CPD to get together in a, a peer book group, um, let us,

Speaker:

let us know if you're gonna do that.

Speaker:

Um, so this book is rediscovered by Claire

Speaker:

Catherine.

Speaker:

Catherine Asta, ASTA.

Speaker:

So Rediscovered by Catherine Asta.

Speaker:

She has a podcast, um, as well.

Speaker:

Um, and I think it's the same name or the Late Discovered Circle, I think.

Speaker:

Um, but yeah, this, this book is, worth a read.

Speaker:

and we, um.

Speaker:

Hopefully gonna get her on our, our podcast if, if we can.

Speaker:

And just to say that we are going to be thinking about a, a community for

Speaker:

doctors with, um, neurodivergence or, or feel that they might have a

Speaker:

neurodivergent diagnosis even if they haven't been officially diagnosed.

Speaker:

Um, keep your eyes peel for stuff around that later on in the year.

Speaker:

And, and if that's you, just get in touch with us and let us know.

Speaker:

So what sort of things you do you struggle with and what would you like

Speaker:

to hear about on the podcast as well?

Speaker:

Thanks, Sarah, that that book sounds really important.

Speaker:

The book I'm gonna recommend for the essential thing to read

Speaker:

over the summer is Essentialism.

Speaker:

Now I can't, uh, I can't remember how many times I have

Speaker:

recommended this book to people.

Speaker:

Honestly, I should have shares in this book.

Speaker:

I do not have shares in this book.

Speaker:

But Greg McKeown, if you are listening, please come on the podcast.

Speaker:

Obviously he's listening to You Are Not a Frog.

Speaker:

Um, this book.

Speaker:

Was recommended to me by a coach I was speaking to maybe eight or nine years ago.

Speaker:

I'm not quite sure when it actually came out.

Speaker:

Um, oh, 20, 2014.

Speaker:

Yeah, so it's over 10 years old.

Speaker:

And it, it can be life changing for people.

Speaker:

The strap line is the disciplined pursuit of less.

Speaker:

I like to say, well, it's really about do fewer things, but better.

Speaker:

And it's basically, it's a basically bit of a manual for life.

Speaker:

Um, it talks about what problem do I want.

Speaker:

There's always gonna be a trade off.

Speaker:

Strategy is about making choices, trade offs.

Speaker:

It's about deliberately choosing to be different.

Speaker:

Like you need a strategy for your life.

Speaker:

You cannot keep doing everything.

Speaker:

This was one of the first books that introduced me to the real power of choice,

Speaker:

the fact we, we can choose, but often we don't like the choices that we've got,

Speaker:

they feel too difficult and it really talks about how to do less, uncommitting

Speaker:

to stuff, uh, eliminating stuff, sleeping, protecting your asset, it,

Speaker:

it's a bit, bit of a sort of modern day, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People.

Speaker:

But it, I think the one thing it just instills in me is that we can do anything.

Speaker:

Like, doctors, healthcare professionals are really, really

Speaker:

competent, have got a lot of skills, but we cannot do everything.

Speaker:

We cannot do everything.

Speaker:

And as Oliver Burkeman in another book 4,000 Weeks, that's another another

Speaker:

huge recommendation as he says, you know, we only have about 4,000

Speaker:

weeks on this planet, give or take.

Speaker:

We are not gonna get to do 99.99999% of everything that

Speaker:

there is to do on this planet.

Speaker:

We are gonna have to choose what we spend our one world and precious life doing.

Speaker:

Essentialism really helps with that.

Speaker:

It really helps talk about the impact of just focusing on a few things.

Speaker:

And I remember one of the stories in Essentialism that really struck

Speaker:

me was talking about a, a guy who'd just sold his business.

Speaker:

Um, and he wanted to prove that he was still helpful to the

Speaker:

company that had bought it 'cause he was still in the business.

Speaker:

And so he made sure he went to every single meeting, he made sure he was

Speaker:

still doing lots and lots of things, he was very, very vis visible.

Speaker:

And he went for some coaching.

Speaker:

'cause he just found himself not being very effective at all.

Speaker:

And he thought about, well, how can I improve my visibility?

Speaker:

How can I, how can I have a better impact in this, this new business that's

Speaker:

been taken over by this new company?

Speaker:

And the coach spoke to him and said, your problem is you are just spread so thin,

Speaker:

you are not having an impact on anything.

Speaker:

And said to this guy, what you need to do is only go to meetings where

Speaker:

you are a hundred percent needed.

Speaker:

You are only to do those things that nobody else can do.

Speaker:

Try it for a month or so.

Speaker:

So this guy tried it and his impact shot through the roof.

Speaker:

His enjoyment of work increased.

Speaker:

You know, people were appreciating him again for, for what he was doing.

Speaker:

Now, I know it's hard to translate this over into medicine.

Speaker:

It really, really is, particularly when we have the day job that we've got to do.

Speaker:

We've got all that patient care, that frontline stuff, and then

Speaker:

there's a lot the leadership stuff that often happens outside of work.

Speaker:

but I do observe people getting stuck in the urgency trap and

Speaker:

what we call the urgency trap.

Speaker:

And quick side note, we, we've got some urgency trap training coming

Speaker:

up soon, so if you want to join, we'll put the link in the show notes.

Speaker:

But that's where you're firefighting everything for everybody else.

Speaker:

And so you're not ever getting to your own stuff and it makes you really ineffective

Speaker:

and really decreases your, your impact.

Speaker:

And I see when doctors get stuck in the agency trap, they end up

Speaker:

doing stuff and they say, oh, I'm so busy and now I'm coaching.

Speaker:

Uh, if I'm coaching people or talking to participants in training, they say,

Speaker:

yeah, well, I've gotta do this, that and the other, and I'm thinking about

Speaker:

it, I'm going, that is not important.

Speaker:

It it objectively anybody would say to you, you really don't need to do that.

Speaker:

That is not mission critical.

Speaker:

That's not gonna move the needle for your patients or for your depart or anything.

Speaker:

Yet they're still feeling that they ought to do it.

Speaker:

And you lose the ability.

Speaker:

To distinguish what actually is important and what's not.

Speaker:

And I guess amygdala is all tied up in that, you know, making you feel guilty

Speaker:

if you're not gonna do everything that everybody wants you to do all the time.

Speaker:

But Essentialism really helps just cut through all the, the chat, all the

Speaker:

external stuff and think what is the really important stuff that only I can do?

Speaker:

And let me focus on that and gives you some suggestions for

Speaker:

how to focus on that as well.

Speaker:

So that Essentialism by Greg, Greg McKeown has had a massive impact on me.

Speaker:

Strap line, the discipline pursuit of less.

Speaker:

And the power of choice, I think that really stood out from

Speaker:

what you've just said, and it's something I've had to apply.

Speaker:

And it sounds like you, you've really taken over from that.

Speaker:

Recognizing we always have a choice.

Speaker:

We just don't always like the choice we have.

Speaker:

And sometimes we forget that we have a choice when it comes down to, oh,

Speaker:

I have to do that, I should do that.

Speaker:

And so we often need to step back and go, actually, what would happen if I didn't?

Speaker:

How's that working out for me when I try to do all that, like in the urgency trap?

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So who, who might wanna take that in their suitcase on a holiday do you think?

Speaker:

I think anybody who's overwhelmed, anyone who's just thinking, I am on a

Speaker:

hamster wheel, I'm running as fast as I can just to stay still, and when I

Speaker:

get home I'm exhausted and just go to work and do it all again the next day,

Speaker:

and thinking I'm not even doing a good job in the things that I'm, I'm doing.

Speaker:

So, absolutely, if, if, if that's you just start with this book, it's

Speaker:

a bit of a mindset shift because we need the mindset shift before we

Speaker:

actually can put stuff into action.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

It's interesting.

Speaker:

Sarah was with some consultants the other day and, um, we were talking about choice

Speaker:

and they were really struggling with it because what it turned out was they didn't

Speaker:

like the choices that they, that they had.

Speaker:

They wished they had a choice to be working in a, a trust that was wonderful.

Speaker:

That was, you know, really helping them, that that was giving them the

Speaker:

choice about how they spent their time.

Speaker:

But, it wasn't like that they were really, really struggling with the system, but

Speaker:

there still is choice, you know, even if the only choice you have is whether

Speaker:

you stay or go, there is always choice.

Speaker:

Nobody has a gun to your head saying you, you have to.

Speaker:

What people don't like is the consequences of their choices.

Speaker:

You know, the consequences of leaving.

Speaker:

What that means with their family, their income or the consequences

Speaker:

of standing up and saying, no, we can't do this, but we'll do this.

Speaker:

Or the consequences of drawing a line in this hand saying, I'm going home now

Speaker:

and those patients won't be seen, or, you know, they're gonna have to wait

Speaker:

or that, 'cause what if someone thinks badly of me, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker:

But it's always the consequences.

Speaker:

I talk about this a lot.

Speaker:

It's the consequences of the choices that we, we don't like.

Speaker:

But as Greg McKeown says, again, bring it back to Essentialism,

Speaker:

you can't do everything.

Speaker:

You can do anything, but you can't do everything.

Speaker:

And I think that's just the message I'll probably have on my gravestone.

Speaker:

But it's so true,

Speaker:

She could do anything.

Speaker:

She could do everything.

Speaker:

It is so true.

Speaker:

I came back to this analogy when I was training last week.

Speaker:

I was talking about the two suitcase sizes, you know, the

Speaker:

hand luggage and the hold luggage.

Speaker:

And I was saying, and again, if you had a, a whole big suitcase,

Speaker:

you know, the 22 kilogram suitcase.

Speaker:

And I said, no, sorry, you can't take that, you can only take the 10

Speaker:

kilogram suitcase, you would, you'd accept that you couldn't fit the 22

Speaker:

kilograms into that 10 kilogram suitcase.

Speaker:

So I was saying to them in the room, you know, so what would

Speaker:

you, how would you decide?

Speaker:

And of course they said, well, we take what we really needed.

Speaker:

What was the priority?

Speaker:

What's just the, you know, for us?

Speaker:

And it, it's the same principle, isn't it?

Speaker:

If you can't take everything on a, on holiday and you could only take a smaller

Speaker:

suitcase, what will you choose to take?

Speaker:

And it, and it's the same analogy at work, isn't it?

Speaker:

You can't do everything, so therefore you have to leave some, some things out.

Speaker:

And when it comes down to prioritizing it, sometimes it's hard, isn't it to say,

Speaker:

even when it's the things I'd like to do.

Speaker:

I still need to say, no, I'm not, I'm not gonna do that because I

Speaker:

want, I am choosing to do this.

Speaker:

I love that analogy of the suitcase.

Speaker:

It strikes me that we don't see time as finite.

Speaker:

We just think time can stretch.

Speaker:

It can't stretch.

Speaker:

We need to see, we need to see time as, as a possession.

Speaker:

And actually, we know that time is, is, is, is a type of wealth,

Speaker:

you know, freedom of time.

Speaker:

Having the time to do something that is wealth.

Speaker:

So actually seeing it as finite possessions of energy that

Speaker:

you have or space to do stuff, you, you absolutely can't.

Speaker:

We just think we can fit 10 tasks into half an hour.

Speaker:

We kn when we know we can't, but like, oh no, well I'll just have to

Speaker:

do it and then I'll borrow the rest of that from my sleep or whatever.

Speaker:

But actually when you, when you go, when you hit 24 hours,

Speaker:

you can't do anything else.

Speaker:

So I quite like that suitcase analogy.

Speaker:

That's, that's really helpful.

Speaker:

The, the, the problem comes when it's like, well, I would like to

Speaker:

take this thing, but someone else is telling me I should take that thing.

Speaker:

Who wins out?

Speaker:

Is it me or is it the other person?

Speaker:

But yeah, I think time as a currency is really helpful.

Speaker:

And that's something where the suitcase analogy works well.

Speaker:

'cause it's like a space, isn't it, that you, you can fill and,

Speaker:

um, energy the same and attention.

Speaker:

So T, E, A, time, energy, attention, what are you going to

Speaker:

fit into the resource you have?

Speaker:

So thinking about time, my next book is this one, Time to Think.

Speaker:

So I recommend this and I think we do, we both do, don't we, on,

Speaker:

on a lot of courses, especially when we talk about coaching.

Speaker:

So Time to Think by Nancy Klein.

Speaker:

It might be a book that you have read.

Speaker:

I read it first probably 15, maybe plus years ago, um,

Speaker:

when I did a coaching diploma.

Speaker:

Um, it's.

Speaker:

So, so empowering around recognizing the quality of listening.

Speaker:

So as medics, we're often trained, aren't we?

Speaker:

How to actively listen, how to listen deeply, not just to what people are

Speaker:

saying, but what else is behind it.

Speaker:

And I think the quote that really stays with me is that the quality

Speaker:

of my listening directly impacts the quality of your thinking.

Speaker:

So if I listen well then that will help you to think well,

Speaker:

I remember reading Time to Think and it, it did absolutely change my mind.

Speaker:

'Cause she talks about it not just in a, a one-to-one conversation.

Speaker:

And she also talks about thinking time in meetings where you know that if you are

Speaker:

given a chance just to talk and no one's gonna interrupt you, it's so much easier.

Speaker:

People actually talk less, they get much less anxious and you know, so

Speaker:

it's just creating these thinking environments where people can

Speaker:

actually express what they think.

Speaker:

Now, I'm an extrovert, so I need to talk to know what I'm thinking.

Speaker:

Is that the case for you?

Speaker:

No.

Speaker:

So I'm introverted, which means I will process my thoughts internally and then

Speaker:

say them when I have got them gathered.

Speaker:

So how's this a thinking time thing work for you then?

Speaker:

So in a meeting at times, sometimes I have in say, a partnership meeting, sometimes

Speaker:

I wouldn't have contributed if I thought, well, someone else has covered that point.

Speaker:

However, by not contributing, I then haven't stated it out loud,

Speaker:

I guess, where I sit with things.

Speaker:

So I learned to say my thoughts and my opinions, even if

Speaker:

someone else had covered it.

Speaker:

I think it means I don't always need, I mean, I do need time sometimes to talk out

Speaker:

loud, and I can get a lot of clarity by that, but it does mean sometimes I need

Speaker:

almost encouragement or permission to, and that's where the thinking environment

Speaker:

that Nancy Klein talks about is so great for those teams where you have

Speaker:

a mixture of people who will just talk without, you know, without prompting,

Speaker:

and those who will need to be encouraged.

Speaker:

And it, it really indicates to everybody that there'll be time for

Speaker:

everyone to, to think and to speak.

Speaker:

And so part of it is chairing skills, I think.

Speaker:

Um, also part of it is encouraging those who perhaps wouldn't necessarily have

Speaker:

spoken out loud to have said something.

Speaker:

And also those who, who are external processes to also hear other

Speaker:

people's, um, processing and thinking.

Speaker:

So yeah, that's how I think it can work for all, for all preferences.

Speaker:

So it's a really good book, Time to Think.

Speaker:

I would recommend it for anyone who, just wants to have a thinking partnership,

Speaker:

you know, talk to somebody and allow the other person to think, and then

Speaker:

vice versa, they will allow you to think and it, it really does transform how

Speaker:

you approach conversations, doesn't it?

Speaker:

It really does.

Speaker:

And I think even if you think you're good at listening, not you

Speaker:

personally, even if, if one thinks

Speaker:

I'm not that good at listening, as I've just proven by interrupting you.

Speaker:

Well, this, you know, there's always more to learn, isn't there?

Speaker:

And I'm certainly learning a lot.

Speaker:

It's worth, I think one of the other things that are really worth gaining

Speaker:

from the book is her incisive questions.

Speaker:

I use this so much.

Speaker:

I was using it with my adult son the other week, um, and her incisive questions

Speaker:

where someone is stuck in their thinking and it helps 'em to get past that.

Speaker:

So it's a coaching question.

Speaker:

I don't wanna spoil it by giving it away, but it helps the person to think past

Speaker:

where they're stuck and then come back to, so it opens up choice and freedom again.

Speaker:

Sarah, I am gonna ask you what the incisive question is for those

Speaker:

people that don't manage to read it.

Speaker:

What is, what is this very helpful incisive question.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So if, if somebody is stuck, I'm trying to think of an example.

Speaker:

If someone is, is stuck with, um, something thinking, you know, I

Speaker:

can't, possibly, I can't possibly do that, or I can't possibly say

Speaker:

no, um, maybe that's a good example.

Speaker:

So, you know, I can't possibly say no to my boss about that or, or my team

Speaker:

because of what they'll think, the incisive question is, takes you if you

Speaker:

could, and if you knew that that was gonna be okay, so it almost takes you

Speaker:

to a place of imagining what's possible.

Speaker:

And for that to be all right, then what would you do?

Speaker:

I've used it at times where I've had some anxiety about the future, for

Speaker:

example, and I've just thought, okay, if I knew, and this isn't sort of,

Speaker:

um, fantasy, but if I knew that, This was gonna be okay almost that, that

Speaker:

then what would I use this time for?

Speaker:

So it frees you pass them as often, often those anxious thoughts or other

Speaker:

limiting beliefs, and that's the thing.

Speaker:

So it's where someone's got a limiting belief about what they can

Speaker:

do, what's possible or what's gonna be possible in, in the, in, in life.

Speaker:

It just helps you to think, okay, what would you then do now?

Speaker:

So it comes back to now, and then gives you that sort of sense

Speaker:

of, okay, so what would I do?

Speaker:

And, and that's where you inner wisdom can really

Speaker:

Love it.

Speaker:

I think we're gonna use that today.

Speaker:

Brilliant.

Speaker:

Thank you.

Speaker:

So, so that is Time to Think by Nancy Klein and, and an old classic.

Speaker:

I really recommend that one.

Speaker:

Finally the book I'd like to recommend Deeper Mindfulness by

Speaker:

Mark Williams and Danny Penman.

Speaker:

Now, so this was, uh, recommended to me by my friend and colleague John C

Speaker:

Parkin, who wrote the F it book, so, um, that's something we're gonna be talking

Speaker:

about later on in our, um, hot topics podcast with our um, FrogXtra membership.

Speaker:

But John said to me, you've got to read this book.

Speaker:

Now, a lot of you will already know Finding Peace in a Frantic World.

Speaker:

So this is a, an amazing book that that first book is basically the eight week

Speaker:

mindfulness based stress reduction course.

Speaker:

And I think there's even some evidence from NICE that it is an evidence

Speaker:

based treatment for depression.

Speaker:

It's really fantastic, And they, you can teach that you, you can go and attend

Speaker:

a Find New piece In a Frantic World mindfulness based stress reduction course.

Speaker:

You can buy the book.

Speaker:

There's all sorts of meditations that go with it, and I would

Speaker:

really, really recommend that.

Speaker:

This is the next step, and in fact, this is another eight week course.

Speaker:

And they say, you don't even need to have done the first

Speaker:

course to, to be doing this.

Speaker:

And it builds on the new research that's come out about the way we

Speaker:

think and our brains and mindfulness.

Speaker:

And it, it, it's really, really helpful.

Speaker:

I mean, what it talks about is the fact that, I mean, I know, sorry,

Speaker:

we talk about what's the story in your head all the time, don't we?

Speaker:

Like, well, what are you thinking?

Speaker:

What story have you made up about that?

Speaker:

What are you assuming?

Speaker:

This book just says that everything is a story in our head.

Speaker:

I am looking at you through a camera right now.

Speaker:

We're on a recording platform called Riverside, but my actual brain

Speaker:

is only taking in a tiny bit of the information that I'm seeing.

Speaker:

What the rest of what I'm seeing is, is my brain just filling in the blanks

Speaker:

from its memory, from what it knows.

Speaker:

So I know that I've got a couple of lights here, light me up.

Speaker:

I've got a computer screen here, I've got window there.

Speaker:

I'm not actually seeing that.

Speaker:

I'm just, you know, just keeping that there from what I've seen before

Speaker:

and I generally only just work out bits that have changed or whatever.

Speaker:

So everything we do in life, what we're smelling, what we're seeing,

Speaker:

what we're experiencing is, is our brain generally filling in the gaps.

Speaker:

And we're not taking, we're not really relying on that much actual

Speaker:

information that's coming in through our, through our eyes.

Speaker:

And so, what he they're talking about is we, we, we do a lot of stuff on autopilot.

Speaker:

A lot of our thoughts are on autopilot, are assumptions, and even

Speaker:

just what we're thinking, feeling, smelling, all that sort of thing.

Speaker:

And how do we get off the autopilot and actually engage in the present

Speaker:

moment with the real world?

Speaker:

And so again, it takes you through eight weeks of different

Speaker:

meditations to practice this.

Speaker:

And the difference between this and the first course is they are now

Speaker:

talking about this thing called vedana, which is your sort of emotional tone.

Speaker:

' Cause I don't know about you, but sometimes I think to myself,

Speaker:

oh, I'm feeling a bit rubbish.

Speaker:

I'm feeling a bit, oh, there must be something wrong.

Speaker:

Something's wrong, right?

Speaker:

What is it?

Speaker:

Oh, maybe it's that one of my children has upset me this morning,

Speaker:

or something's not going right away.

Speaker:

So then you know your emotional tone's a bit off.

Speaker:

So then you look around for things that are gonna confirm why it's off,

Speaker:

and then you, and then it might ruin the rest of the day, and then your

Speaker:

thoughts will match up with that.

Speaker:

But actually what this is doing is using the, um, some mindfulness techniques

Speaker:

to, to think about to yourself.

Speaker:

Oh.

Speaker:

What is the emotional tone, what's going on there?

Speaker:

And not then necessarily have to do anything about it.

Speaker:

Sort of just identify.

Speaker:

Now I'm not very far into the book, but I think there are some very

Speaker:

helpful things that go further on that, you know, John told me about

Speaker:

that a lot of the time you, you clock it and you go, no action necessary.

Speaker:

You know, I don't actually need to do anything about that and I think

Speaker:

that's gonna be very helpful for me.

Speaker:

So I am, I'm working through, you know, the book and the meditations

Speaker:

and, you know, you do five minutes a day meditation, 'cause we know that

Speaker:

mindfulness is about practicing, but there's some really useful,

Speaker:

really helpful neuroscience.

Speaker:

They talk about the fact that we just exhaust ourselves.

Speaker:

We've just got all this stuff going on and half the time we just don't need to.

Speaker:

And I think this is going to be a, a really good thing

Speaker:

for me to do over the summer.

Speaker:

So I just encourage other people to get the book.

Speaker:

There's the, you can then get the free audio meditations that go with it.

Speaker:

They give you the link in the book to get that.

Speaker:

And I think it's gonna be really helpful.

Speaker:

I really like the concept of emotional tone, and a lot of that

Speaker:

sounds, it's paying attention to our thoughts, isn't it?

Speaker:

Paying attention to them, but not.

Speaker:

Necessarily engaging them.

Speaker:

And recognizing that, yeah, we've, we, our brains have received so

Speaker:

much information, but we filter.

Speaker:

That's what, that's what we do.

Speaker:

And we filter based on past experience, don't we?

Speaker:

What else is going on?

Speaker:

And recognizing how our, our emotional tone can set the filter.

Speaker:

And we have some, we don't have control over all of the filter, but we probably

Speaker:

have some control over whether we engage with those thoughts or not.

Speaker:

I think, I think what, what really struck me from this book was that

Speaker:

sometimes, you know, I'm feeling a bit pissed off and I'll always blame actual

Speaker:

stuff that's happening, but it might just be something that's triggered an

Speaker:

unconscious memory of something that happened in the past or whatever.

Speaker:

And actually I just can, I don't need to do anything.

Speaker:

I can just, I can just leave it.

Speaker:

I don't need to change and act on everything, which for me is quite

Speaker:

difficult 'cause I'm someone who likes to just like get over the

Speaker:

negative emotions, just move into the future and everything has to be fine.

Speaker:

There's that recognition, isn't it?

Speaker:

I've, I've been thinking a lot about, yeah, about heartfulness as well,

Speaker:

and maybe we'll talk about that one time, but just recognizing how it,

Speaker:

the thoughts affect how we feel.

Speaker:

And I think some of that deeper mindfulness is very

Speaker:

much around that, isn't it?

Speaker:

How it affects your, your actual state, your emotional state.

Speaker:

There's lots to go into.

Speaker:

One thing that that get you practicing is using bits of your body to just

Speaker:

get you in the present moment.

Speaker:

And I know we've talked about that with the, there's some stuff around PQ

Speaker:

intelligence and stuff, but actually just focusing your hands or your feet.

Speaker:

So actually think actually this, that just get into the present moment and

Speaker:

ignore that, that brain stuff that I'm just making up and return to now.

Speaker:

And I just think that can be the key to living a much calmer life.

Speaker:

I, I know in a lot of courses we teach ourselves to.

Speaker:

Recognize the stories that we're telling ourselves and then work

Speaker:

out what's true, what's actually true and stop the assumptions.

Speaker:

And I think that's really important and can very much help, but sometimes we

Speaker:

just need to notice those thoughts and let them go and feel them in your body.

Speaker:

And sometimes there is no action necessary.

Speaker:

We don't actually need to do anything about it.

Speaker:

No, we often need to get out of our heads and much more into our bodies,

Speaker:

and that groundedness that's been so helpful for me in many ways, just

Speaker:

grounding in those moments, not ruminating

Speaker:

absolutely.

Speaker:

So there's four book recommendation recommendations

Speaker:

for people over the summer.

Speaker:

We've got Deeper Mindfulness, Essentialism and Sarah, You've

Speaker:

Time to Think, and Rediscovered.

Speaker:

So if you are listening to this on the normal You Are Not a Frog podcast

Speaker:

feed, go well over the summer.

Speaker:

We've got some great summer episodes, some around wellbeing and some extra stuff.

Speaker:

And um, yeah, I'll see you for more quick dips again in the autumn.

Speaker:

If you are part of our FrogXtra membership, then hop over to

Speaker:

your FrogXtra, um, special bonus podcast for July.

Speaker:

and, uh, Sarah and I will be exploring a couple more books in there that, um, I, I

Speaker:

really think everybody should be reading.

Speaker:

And that is the F it books with John Parkin and the Boundaries book, the Book

Speaker:

of Boundaries and diving a bit deeper into those, because of some of the things

Speaker:

that we've been sort of witnessing in people over the past few months in terms

Speaker:

of the training that we'll be doing.

Speaker:

So we'll see you over there if you're in the membership.

Speaker:

Everyone else have a great rest of summer and we'll speak soon.

Speaker:

Thanks for being with us, Sarah.

Speaker:

Thank you.

Links

Chapters

Video

More from YouTube