Jason Claire is an old friend and the man behind my first design gig. In this episode, we dive into his career path in design via the retail angle. He shares his personal journey following his passion in art to design and lifestyle travel.

We cover key advice from our dads and how the design industry has evolved since we met in 2003. We even touch on the racey topic of pricing goods for clients and how design firms make a profit.

Washingtonians will love a little DC design district history and the witty banter of one of my favorite people.

• VASTU - Project Photos & Reviews - Washington, DC US | HouzzVastu - The design shop that started it all

Mentioned in this episode:

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BTD Pod Jason Claire Episode UPDATE 


[00:00:23] Intro: Welcome to Behind the Drapery podcast. 


[00:00:44] Liz: Jason also holds a special place in my heart because he was my very first boss for my very first interior design job. Born in New York City, Jason was interested in art and design from the start. He became a commissioned abstract painter in high school and then triple majored in art, art history, and pre med at Duke University. 


[00:01:24] Liz: S. in 2019 and started the interior design firm Interior Matter with a former colleague. Jason stepped back from Interior Matter in 2023 to focus on a new venture called Upon Return, a global travel advisory. He continues to be the creative director of Interior Matter's monthly design newsletter called What Matters. 


[00:01:51] Jason: It's nice to see you too after so 


[00:02:05] Liz: I don't know if you still consider yourself that. 


[00:02:25] Jason: here. Yeah, this is the way back machine. So, um, let's see, I for the longest period of time wanted to be a plastic surgeon. 


[00:02:57] Jason: Anyway, I like had in my mind that plastic surgery was this unification of. My creative side and my career side, and I pursued that through undergrad. Did 


[00:03:16] Jason: yeah, I mean, I, it's funny, like, I wonder, I mean, he, he, um, passed away about 17 years ago, but I wonder if he would say the same thing today, because medical world is sort of upside down from where it was when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s. 


[00:03:29] Liz: true. I was relating is what I wanted to get into photography. And I had, I don't know if every girl has a photography stage in middle school. And my dad, I remember saying, you know, I think that's either going to be, you know, an expensive hobby or sort of a tough existence. And I thought, Huh, you know, but I really, I kind of get at it through taking pictures of my work now, but I, I remember him saying that I took it to heart. 


[00:03:50] Jason: like, yeah, you know, I, I went through my photography phase also. I think by then I sort of had teased out that, well, at least then that art was going to be an [00:04:00] abvocation. And this is when I was kind I guess out of school, out of undergrad before I went to graduate school and living in Philadelphia. 


[00:04:11] Liz: anyway, I think that's a good point. I think a lot of creative struggle with how do you make a career out of being creative? It seems like a difficult path, a hard way to make money. Maybe not so much now, as you said, you know, with things. 


[00:04:24] Jason: well, I think I think at the end of the day that for me at least the The idea that you have to think about these things separately became the thing I had to overcome I lived in a world where I was thinking about career, you know on the left and Creative outlet on the right and they shall not cross kind of thing. 


[00:05:23] Jason: And I think the more that you can, these ideas can overlap. That's where sort of success and happiness. Lies. I would 


[00:05:44] Liz: But again, my dad said, well, when's underwater basket weaving? Because I was majoring in psychology and then getting this heavy minor in art because that's where my passion was. 


[00:06:07] Jason: Yes! I was a painting, uh, major. But again, the, the pre med was like usurping all of the future planning, and then I kind of stopped all that. I decided that like, second semester physics was just you know, a bridge too far. And I took a breath and I decided to like work and go into the workforce and I went into healthcare, um, consulting for about seven years before I got a master's in business. 


[00:07:18] Jason: Oh, 


[00:07:25] Jason: Yeah. And it's sort of my first design gig in that way. Um, I was, uh, I was an artist selling my work, but I never, you know, I was, I hadn't done this before, but I had just finished business school. And so I knew something about. 


[00:07:40] Liz: just came out of the blue, though, you're working, you're painting, and then he approached you to open this. I mean, how did that? Yeah, 


[00:08:05] Jason: Can you help me finish the business plan? And would you be interested in? You know, going a little further and I kind of woke up one day and I said, yeah, that's it. I'm going to quit my job. The, the retail store happened to be two blocks from my house, which was, you know, which wildly 


[00:08:26] Jason: and, you know, changed a commute from, I think I was going to Dallas every week or something. 


[00:08:45] Liz: that. That was such a fun time too. I mean, I met you sort of, I guess, what was that year one or two when you guys had it opened? 


[00:08:56] Jason: opened in April of 2000. And no, no, I'm sorry. We opened. Yeah. In April of 2003 ish. 


[00:09:08] Jason: I mean, and there's also back in the day where, you know, I can't say that this is true today where independent retailers could not only exist, but, but be successful and be destinations and, and, and not. 


[00:09:37] Liz: I remember that being a big selling point. You know, when I was working with you guys, it was, you know, the Steve Anthony, Steven Anthony out in LA and all the different. 


[00:10:00] Liz: We're now across the street, our big box retailers moving board and stuff, which have their place, of course, but gosh, it was such an evolution. I mean, back then that was really like a special place to where that area, this was on 14th street in DC, where that whole area was, was turning over and like interesting restaurants and stores and boutiques were opening up that. 


[00:10:21] Jason: What we realized, um, soon after opening, I mean, we opened as a furniture retailer. 


[00:10:30] Jason: to curate lines that hadn't been sort of seen or sold in DC before we were going into a warm, modern aesthetic, which is what we used to say. 


[00:11:03] Jason: And so that was all, that was actually a hard sell because people were still used to. You know, the concept that you can only buy what's in a catalog or what you can see on the floor. But in fact, we were doing something different and custom. So, but at first we were just a, you know, just we were, we were a retail furniture and store in an art gallery, actually. 


[00:11:23] Liz: that piece of it. The art gallery, the local artists. I mean, that I realized that speaks to one of your, I didn't remember that you were also an artist. Yeah, 


[00:11:49] Jason: But then soon after opening, like, I don't know, maybe that was a year, like, like to your point, 14th street was evolving and people were walking into the store with with, um, floor plans. [00:12:00] And can you help design my space? Cause I've never lived in a loft before or an open floor environment. And so suddenly we realized, I mean, we were pretty quick in response, like we need to build out a design team. 


[00:12:42] Liz: We really had to educate the customers coming in, which was different from going into a restoration hardware. I mean, I remember working the holidays at restoration hardware. It was a totally different, you know, it was just a part time gig when we were coming back from living abroad. And before I worked at Vostu and, and I remember all, I learned so much about custom furniture cause I was still very, very new. 


[00:13:23] Jason: Yeah, initially, like, like, we were like, Oh, God, window treatments and floor coverings. That sounds complicated. It is. We'll take a pass at that. And then we realized, you know, not only was it. helpful to our bottom line, but it was, um, we wanted to provide turnkey interior design service to clients walking in. 


[00:14:03] Liz: I think you were ahead of the curve on that, because now everybody's a designer in every furniture shop, but I mean, maybe it's a little bit of an exaggeration, but I think bringing custom furniture to customers, you know, retail customers was not common back then, and, um, especially being able to have some design services built. 


[00:14:26] Jason: Yeah, and we also felt like, look, if someone came in or maybe, you know, we noticed a pattern and let's say people were coming in looking for X, Y, or Z, and we didn't have a vendor for that. Right. Then my business partner and I would just go to some of the shows in New York or North Carolina or out in California, or we even started going to Milan every year. 


[00:15:11] Liz: And I remember it was a big deal back then too, when you guys had built such a great brand around that warm, modern that you were the first, I think, retailer to carry Knoll in DC. Was that, am I remembering that 


[00:15:32] Jason: Wow. This was before they worked with design within reach. This was before they had their own retail share rooms. They really were just branching into residential. I mean, they were focused on commercial, which was like 90 percent of the business and 10 percent residential. And they were, um, choosing a retailer in every major market. 


[00:16:21] Liz: Aesthetic and the whole look of the store. It just dovetailed in so perfectly. You know, it 


[00:16:40] Liz: I love that ring of fabric. I remember projects. Yes. Oh God, that 


[00:16:47] Liz: I remember one time talking about drapery and I was new to creating drapery. I think I used a super thick upholstery fabric with. Gretchen and she had to fabricate this, these super long panel. She's like, Liz, the seamstresses fingers are falling apart. 


[00:17:07] Jason: we had, we were, we were educating ourselves at the same time. I mean, we, I remember once a designer came in and, and it would have been our responsibility to tell this designer that the fabric had to be backed. 


[00:17:29] Liz: backing, then you're, you're not, you haven't done enough work yet. Everybody has to make a mistake on net backing or not backing. Oh, that's funny. So, so the store was doing well. 


[00:17:46] Jason: it. We were open. Through, I guess, let me think, part of 2014, I believe, is when we started to unwind, or, yeah, 2014. I mean, but we, we were, we then became like the exclusive [00:18:00] Herman Miller dealer and Floss Lighting. 


[00:18:40] Jason: So we, we just, we just sort of quietly fulfilled all of our remaining orders and closed up. It was a dozen years or so. And it was 


[00:19:08] Liz: Mitchell gold room and boards that came in, which just meant you guys knew where to be and they were following, right? We were 


[00:19:24] Jason: Along the corridor. So people would come park and visit, you know, all five or 10 stores and not just like find us as a solo destination. But you're right. The evolution of that neighborhood. I couldn't imagine being there. I mean, even in five years ago or 10 years ago, let alone today. I mean, every other store is now a bank. 


[00:20:10] Liz: Starting your own business can be. 


[00:20:36] Liz: Retail is very specific. I think it's harder than what, you know, working for yourself as an independent designer. I 


[00:21:23] Jason: I mean, we used to sort of say things like, I mean, back when we were a smaller team that, you know, we may have had four people, but we functioned like we had six because there was such like energy and like exponential growth from a team that's really well oiled. So I think that that applies both for a small interior design firm or a retailer or any small business that. 


[00:22:10] Jason: Some people do not want to engage rather than something to overcome. It's something that we really invested in and it worked most of the time, but you know, not always. 


[00:22:36] Liz: Right. Do you want to tell us a little bit about that transition? And I'm jealous about Switzerland and was jealous. 


[00:22:57] Jason: It was what I was good at. It's what I knew. Are a former employee at Bostu who really ran the interior design group for the longest period of time until we closed was out on her own, um, in an interior design firm in DC. I just felt like I could add value. To what she was already doing and help grow what she was already doing. 


[00:23:34] Liz: Because one of the things you did at Vastu, I think that sort of came naturally to you was at least towards the middle of the end is you were great about networking with the realtors in the area and sort of, and also I think getting into more corporate. 


[00:23:57] Jason: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I thought like, I [00:24:00] mean, where my juices sort of flow, I mean, I, yes, I'm, I'm interested in the aesthetics and the design, but I also absolutely love business development and. 


[00:24:29] Jason: I mean, there was no other person who knew in advance. It was coming. It was coming. So, so we really courted them. Um, we provided all kinds of realtor settlement gift services to make their lives easier. We hosted different networking events and they in turn brought us clients who were really in need. And then, and then we used to say that we, which was true, it wasn't just a line that we were furthering their service. 


[00:25:12] Liz: that experience continued. Yes. I think realtors reach out for that. If people are asking them, Hey, I need a little help setting this house up or this condo. 


[00:25:25] Jason: And then, and then at the same time, we sometimes found out when clients were moving out of DC because we had done someone's house or their condo or whatever. And they would, you know, we, we maintained relationships with our, with our bigger and better clients. 


[00:25:59] Jason: It 


[00:26:18] Liz: What roles did you have? If she was the day to day designer, you were doing business development and how, how can people learn how to, you know, 


[00:26:35] Jason: I kind of, you know, re engaged with realtor friends, with builders and architects, we had a thinking in the beginning that if we could, um, find architectural firms that did not offer interior design services, and if there was a good fit for us. Fit in culture and aesthetic that we could be the kind of like the white label firm for x, y, Z architecture that ended up not really working so well. 


[00:27:06] Liz: why didn't 


[00:27:24] Jason: Your baby. Even, even if the clients themselves were like, okay, I'm need a new sofa. They would run it by the architect. So there was like a level of ownership still, and we didn't want to step on toes and any, but, but the, the positive side of that is that that networking still helped, right? Because sometimes. 


[00:28:03] Jason: So I was scouring to find out who the luxury home builders were, how clients were making interior design decisions with, with them. Some of our largest contracts were, um, kind of in that space. You know, I firmly believe, and I think you would, you would agree, Liz, that clients benefit from interior design services when building a new home because they don't make the mistakes that they may make without that firm's presence. 


[00:28:46] Liz: people or consumers can be confused on that. I've been brought in on projects where here's the builder. 


[00:29:17] Liz: Don't know everything about building. I sort of felt a little sheepish about being in these official meetings with the client, but then I quickly learned that we all have a different specialty. And, you know, I'm thinking about furniture and color and trim and a different, and the architect is not, he's thinking about the framework of it, obviously a different discipline entirely. 


[00:29:49] Liz: And it's confusing and the choices are overwhelming and not everyone understands how to do that, bring people in. I, maybe we need to be better about educating folks on that process. 


[00:30:12] Jason: Like everyone has a separate set of. Of skills and their, what they're focused on and what they're good at. And so we, you know, this one project I'm thinking of, we had a seat at the table from the very beginning, the client had the budget for it, but I would also say that we had an effect on the architectural drawings. 


[00:30:53] Jason: And in the end, the client was ecstatic that we were providing this value. And so, like, to my point earlier about sort of exponential results from a successful team. I mean, you could sort of say like the builder is an important person at that table, obviously the architect, the designer. And so I'd say the three people are actually creating the benefit of like four at the table. 


[00:31:23] Liz: think it's also more efficient. I mean, having all these separate meetings or having them in. Not same time meeting with, you know, getting the house and the architectural plans together and then talking your designer about furniture and all that. 


[00:31:52] Liz: And as a woman, I've been in those rooms where the architect and the builder are both men and the client is a woman. And she said to me, one of them said, I'm just [00:32:00] glad we're on this team. You know, we have men and women have different perspectives on certain things, obviously. So I'm sort of her teammate, you know, design advocate on the female side of things. 


[00:32:11] Jason: hundred percent. Could not agree with that more. Oh, there. Who wants to build a house? Who wants 


[00:32:30] Jason: Oh yeah. Like, I don't mean to say like, this was like, we, we started the business, this was our first project. We did rooms, we did whole floors, then we did sort of You know, minor renovation work. We did some kitchens and then we started getting bigger. Um, 


[00:33:10] Liz: Like if you and the client or you and the architect have different visions and you feel strongly about it or. Yeah, I think that's an 


[00:33:36] Jason: I mean, forget about a new build, which is, you know, a multi year project for, I don't know, a typical interior design project. You're kind of working with that client for, I don't know, six months minimum, probably a year or longer, the more extensive it is. And you want to be able to get along with that person well throughout that duration. 


[00:34:17] Jason: We decided that it was a project that we probably shouldn't have taken in the first place. And I think that kind of opened up this idea that it's okay to say no, it doesn't happen often, but if you have really bad chemistry, or there are red flags that go up in your first meeting or two. then it is okay to refer that person to someone else. 


[00:34:56] Liz: for those red flag. Are there some genuine general red flags that if they appear for you that you just know? 


[00:35:10] Jason: Look, I don't think you can You can necessarily do this right out of the gate, but you are kind of dating in the first couple of meetings, and you're usually seeing the space or seeing a set of plans if it's a new space. 


[00:35:44] Jason: It's hard to say, like, I won't work with an attorney in Washington DC because like every other person's an attorney. 


[00:35:53] Jason: However, I mean, um, we did have an attorney client who picked [00:36:00] apart our contract that had been written through, written by our lawyer, you know, signed by numerous clients before and picked it apart and wanted to make, you know, a gazillion changes. 


[00:36:30] Liz: What was the straw that broke the camel's back? Was it a related to the agreement or no, 


[00:36:36] Jason: And to be honest, at that point, I was really behind the scenes and I was doing business development, marketing. Um, and I was not the front person designer, so I don't remember exactly what went wrong from a design standpoint, but, you know, we ended up departing very well, and we kind of handed over a final deliverable of like, for your next designer, this is the plan that should be executed, and that client agreed that that was a fabulous way to end it. 


[00:37:31] Jason: That's why budget is such an important thing to talk about. And, and someone's willingness to go over budget and sort of their capacity to go over budget. Once you start taking down walls, you know. Yeah, mysteries and be able to, you know, have a slush fund to be able to cope with those changes. 


[00:37:50] Liz: I always think of it as an opportunity for people to ask questions, not change my business structure. And I, I agree with you. It's a major red flag when clients will say, [00:38:00] Hey, I'd like to pay you this way, or I think sales should structure that way. It's like, well, you know, you don't walk into somebody's business and tell them how to operate it. 


[00:38:36] Jason: agreed. 


[00:38:57] Jason: I'm only comfortable doing it this way. What we used to say at Vostu, which again, we were working with the, the retail public. So we got all kinds of interesting folks, crazy questions, um, different than a design firm where you can filter out during the vetting process and. Um, we couldn't lock the door because we didn't, you know, like someone coming in. 


[00:39:49] Jason: And they understand outsourcing. And they understand outsourcing. Very well. Right. And so when someone starts to, which is great. So like that gets you like in the door. People buy into that kind of [00:40:00] philosophy. And then if someone starts really pushing hard on like, well, I can get this for five dollars less if I do a Google search or the or whatever, whatever, whatever. 


[00:40:33] Jason: The firm made an improper order, and we ordered it in the wrong finish, and it took six months to get. I am terribly sorry. We will discount the The reorder, you know, whatever, like we, we sent people to dinner, we sent gifts. It's not that we made, you know, tons of mistakes all the time, but mistakes happen and you can pretty much guarantee, especially in a new build, that there are going to be numerous mistakes. 


[00:41:24] Jason: for you, our client to that vendor and have it replaced for free or discounted or expedited or whatever is in our power to 


[00:41:42] Liz: Finally learned to say, Hey, when and if a mistake happens, we've got your back. Like you said, we'll take care of it. We'll do everything within our power, given our vendor relationship. 


[00:42:01] Jason: that the client will also be very reasonable. Like if you've, if you're treating each other with respect and as adults and you're being transparent and not hiding delays or not speckling over problems or what have you, then when you need to have that honest conversation about like, look, I know this thing took six months to get, and it was a. 


[00:42:36] Liz: And I think people come from bad. There's so many different types of decorators and designers out there, you know, running their businesses differently, and there's no standardization, which maybe invites, as you said, that, um. 


[00:43:11] Jason: Exactly. And I think it's something that we probably should talk about. Maybe, you know, you're going to have other guests who will address this, but for us, the biggest hangup was always, how do you charge, do you pass along your discount to trade only resources to the client and therefore charge more hourly, or do you mix it up and charge a little bit more than trade on the product and less hourly? 


[00:44:03] Jason: We charged less than retail. If there was a MSRP or if the product was available to the retail public, we always charged retail or less. And we charged what we thought was a reasonable hourly rate for the service that was being provided. So we had maybe four different levels of sort of skill sets in our office and four different hourly rates. 


[00:44:48] Jason: Clients would always push back on the discount structure and the product, the product discount structure that is, and what we said, which is true, is that if we charged, if we pass the entire discount on to our clients, we would have to almost double our hourly rates. Oh my gosh. And when you start looking at an interior design firm charging 500 or 600 an hour for principals, then you're getting into the territory of small, uh, legal firms and people like have a. 


[00:45:40] Liz: or 20. 


[00:45:46] Jason: resource. Providing a service, you're inspecting it, you're receiving it, whatever. And they were charging, like, ludicrous amounts of money, um, for hours. So we did our research and we said, like, this is what the A plus markets are doing. 


[00:46:28] Liz: And it's your business. I mean, it is a business period. It's not a volunteer project. And I think because of the nature of the relationship with your clients, it is a friendly and intimate relationship. You're in people's bedrooms and closets and getting to know their family and partners and everybody else. 


[00:47:03] Liz: We are outside salespeople for these furniture vendors. And my client may buy a sofa once every 10 years, but I'm buying a dozen sofas every month, month after month, year after year. That's a sales commission. I'm an outside salesperson and I'm. We as designers have tried and tested all of these products and get up on my soapbox about this because it's, it's frustrating when people come to you and say, Oh, I want the discount. 


[00:47:47] Liz: The retail price they would get access to on their own and what the vendor is willing to give me, they're not actually paying more than they would if they weren't working with a designer and that's different. And that way I'm not unfairly motivated in [00:48:00] either direction. I'm not billing every single second. 


[00:48:17] Jason: I think that's a hundred percent right. 


[00:48:38] Jason: You'll, you'll suss out whether someone's like, uh, well, I know if I Google that product and I'm like, well, I'm probably not going to say yes to this project, but I'm also going to make the point. If we Googled every product to try to find something that was 10 less or 100 less, you'd be paying more for our time to do that than just paying the price that our vendor provides it at. 


[00:49:06] Liz: that's changed a lot too. I mean, we're talking about 2003 when I met you in the store, people were not, you know, comparison shopping online. You couldn't find trade furniture online. And we actually had to adjust our contract at some point and say, you know, when you work with us, you agree not to shop it. 


[00:49:40] Liz: But it's a whole package, right? We've I can find it quickly because I've been looking for furniture for 20 years and I need to earn that commission to keep my staff as robust who can email you all the time and give the service that we want to provide. And it 


[00:49:58] Jason: I do think that the [00:50:00] future will be different. Like I think it is. It is an odd industry and maybe the last industry where there's this like hidden price from the public and the delta between that and sort of what you decide to charge as a, as a designer is like the commission, as you're saying, and totally justifiable. 


[00:50:41] Jason: But I do think it'll change. I think that this like hidden pricing is not something that's sustainable. And I think the the dynamic of an interior design firm and the way that designers make money will also change. But there will be, you know, it's not going to be like, Tomorrow, it's going to be different. 


[00:51:07] Liz: Internet shopping. I know it is, it's constantly changing. And now designers are trying to think about alternate revenue streams and because it's, you need to flesh out working one on one or sorry, you have to add to like the one on one service you provide isn't always going to. 


[00:51:45] Liz: Is there a favorite part of it? for you. I mean, 


[00:52:15] Jason: I mean, it is, it is. You know, millions of square feet of space in this gorgeous, uh, A feast for the senses kind of thing. I mean, from kitchens and bathrooms to lighting to furniture, you know, all in Milan. So it's like, and then the, and then the, um, Salone, the name of the show, that show takes over the whole city. 


[00:52:55] Jason: Love of design and, you know, changing things in our house or helping some friends here and there. But, 


[00:53:12] Jason: Yes, so I am sort of very, very passionate about travel and have been for really my entire adult life ever since I could, you know, afford to take my first trip. 


[00:53:50] Jason: And so I've been doing that gladly for, um, a number of years and my, I've, I've teased out what I like about it is that I like when someone comes [00:54:00] home and they've had an experience similar to what I've had at a, at said place. They're like, Oh my God, I totally get it, Jason, why you liked this restaurant or that hotel or whatever. 


[00:54:30] Jason: And I have about 3000 that I'm starting with globally. The name of the company is upon return. Love it. Upon return on return, which, um, kind of has a dual meaning, either like. upon return back to that same restaurant to conjure up the memories and the flavors or whatever of your first time there or upon return home from a trip when you might want to share stories with your friends or significant other or families or what have you and plan your next trip and so right now it's going to be a subscription based system and I hope to launch it in early 2024. 


[00:55:17] Jason: I mean, I've been like triangulating all these places for so long and like not taking one source as. the gospel. So if I've done all the triangulation of like the research, I just feel like there's value in, in putting it out there for people who don't have the time. 


[00:55:49] Liz: is so much out there. It is hard. It's daunting when you think about planning a trip and trying to suss out which recommendations are worth pursuing or not, and to have an expert you [00:56:00] trust wrap it up in a nice bow and say, here you go. 


[00:56:27] Liz: I 


[00:56:31] Liz: I'll do it. No, I think 


[00:56:54] Jason: So this isn't, you know, this is, this is not for everyone. This is, you know, I will describe who I am and what I look for and I'm hoping that there's a big market of people who agree in principle with, you know, the things that I like and it's good 


[00:57:17] Liz: I think that makes it more effective opposed to trying to please everyone and be everyone. It's just too confusing and it's not going to hit the nail on the head, you know, 


[00:57:39] Jason: It is okay not to have everything for everyone. You are an expert in these areas and that means you're gonna service whatever, 5 percent of the potential marketplace really, really well. Trying to take over the whole pie and say like, I'm going to be a designer for everyone. [00:58:00] I mean, that's just probably not going to work. 


[00:58:20] Liz: Make sure you really love the images you're seeing on their portfolio. And then you don't have to struggle in the decision making. You trust that what they are naturally inclined to pull and are drawn to in design is going to resonate with what you love. And then you're just sort of tweaking it, not trying to put a square peg in a round hole, you know, so to speak. 


[00:58:44] Liz: We had so much fun at Vostu. I mean, Uh, we could talk for three hours about all kinds of war stories and adventures in the store. And I mean, just literally people walking off the street. Like you said, you couldn't shut the door. You couldn't filter out your client. There we were. Okay, you need a sofa? 


[00:59:13] Jason: Yeah, I mean, look, we were all in it together and, and I think we were carefully and strategically, but making it up as we went. 


[00:59:47] Jason: Uh, now it's like hilarious. Cause we, you know, we blew those targets out of the water, you know, almost in the first year, I think. So. Um, but anyway, that was a lot of fun. It's, it would be, um, there are, there are lots of stories there. [01:00:00] 


[01:00:07] Liz: This was everywhere. Rainbow of Ultra Suede. Totally blocked that out. Oh my gosh. Um, well, thank you so much for being with me today. Um, you shared so many valuable insights and experiences. Um, your journey will undoubtedly inspire somebody starting out. I hope. I know it did me. 


[01:00:29] Jason: It's great to see you. I love what you do and thank you for doing this podcast. 


[01:00:37] Jason: Alright. Until next time. Until next time. Thanks for listening to this episode of Behind the Drapery, where we pull back the curtain on the interior design industry through stories, insights, and creative processes that shape the spaces we create.