Jamey welcomes Dr. Tom Bourdon to discuss his debut book, It Lit a Fire, and the practical ways leaders at every level can drive positive change using his Firestarter model. Tom introduces this model, which comprises pull, passion, and courage, as a tool to help individuals stay focused on their course values and take courageous, intentional actions without burning out, particularly in today’s challenging organizational climates.

They also talk about how impactful leadership is not limited to those with formal authority and that anyone, from entry-level employees to executives, can catalyze meaningful change. The discussion draws on stories from Tom’s book, featuring well-known figures and everyday change agents alike, emphasizing the importance of personal motivation, the ripple effects of small acts of courage, and the significance of cultivating workplaces where respect, inclusion, and a sense of purpose are foundations. They also reflect on the challenges of sustaining DEI work amid growing polarization and recommend reframing the conversation around universal human values like dignity and fairness.

To find out more about Tom's work and grab his book, visit: https://tombourdon.com/it-lit-a-fire

I'm Jamie Applegate, Senior Director of DEI at EquityAtWork, and this is your DEI minute, your go to podcast for leaders looking to navigate the ever evolving landscape of diversity, equity and inclusion in the workplace. Whether you're just starting out with DEI or looking to sustain your long term successes, each episode will provide you with the actions you can take to move DEI forward at your organization, all in 15 minutes or less. Join us every other week as we break through the noise and help you do DEI Right. Let's get to it. Before we get started, this is Michelle Pfefferman and I'm really excited to let you know that my new book, Do DEI Write, is now available. This is your guide to the Equity at Work Maturity model, which shows leaders how to make DEI part of every day and drive great results. You can get your copy through the link in the show notes or wherever books are sold. Today, we are thrilled to welcome Dr.

Tom Borden to your DEI Minute. Tom is a trainer, certified coach, consultant, and facilitator. And he is the founder and principal of Next Level Impact, a firm that supports people and organizations ready to turn their values into action. Tom's background is very impressive. He was a DEI lead at Staples and Big Commerce. He led Greater Boston, pflag, and he directed LGBTQ centers at UCLA and Tufts University, where he also helped launch the Social Justice Initiative. He holds a doctorate in organizational leadership from Northeastern, a master's in education from ucla, and a bachelor's in Business Administration from Babson College. His debut book, It Lit a Fire, is out now and we are so thrilled to have him on the show.

Tom, welcome.

Thank you, Jamie. I was like, getting over that part where I'm like, okay, yeah, enough of that.

I love it.

I love it.

No, it's always nice to be told how great you are, but so you know, Tom, let's just dive into the book, It Lit a Fire. You introduce readers to the fire starter model. So for our listeners, can you share what the Firestarter model is and how it supports leaders?

Absolutely, yeah. So the Firestarter model, it's really just a simple, practical way for anyone to be able to drive intentional impact that's beyond themselves. So you're taking your values and what's important to you and you're putting it into action. So from the leadership perspective, it's really going to help leaders focus on the right priorities and then staying in the game without burning out, especially during these very hard times right now, and then choosing courage and, and courageous actions when it matters most. So that is the model in a nutshell. I even brought a little visual here, a DIY visual I put together for you of the Firestarter model. Yeah, it's in the book. The three elements that you can see here in the model are pull, passion, and courage.

And these are really the things that I've seen come up in every single impact journey that kind of I follow and I talk about in the book and through my career. So with Pull, really, this is allowing you to identify what is most urgent and really most meaningful right now. That's for you, your team, the culture around you, what do you actually need? Not, you know, what's the loudest or demanding your attention the most, but what you actually need to be focusing on. And then passion there is what's energizing you. That's your fuel. And really, if you don't have that fuel and that passion, it's on almost impossible to stay engaged and grounded and keep going long term, especially when things are so hard. So passion essentially is your motivation, and then courage, encourage is really about doing those hard things and making those hard calls. And I think so many of us kind of get stuck there when it comes to courage, whether it's speaking up or putting together the program, even putting a post online sometimes.

So it's taking intentional risks and challenging norms that we shouldn't be accepting and really addressing resistance and harm directly instead of trying to get around it. So, you know, practical standpoint, it can give leaders the clarity and a roadmap. You know, is this the right focus? Do we have what it takes to move forward, our fuel, and are we willing to act?

I love it. I love it. And one of the things that I really think is great about the book is that each chapter obviously takes readers through the stages of the Firestarter model, but it also includes insights drawn from notable people. So Olympian Greg Louganis, comedian and talk show host Sherri shepherd, and trans activist Jaz Jennings are just among a few of the folks that are highlighted. Were there any, like, particularly valuable leadership lessons that you took from those folks that you're able to apply yourself, but also that you would want to share with other folks and really highlight for them?

Yeah, I love that question. So plenty of leadership lessons. And I do wanna start by emphasizing we can all be leaders, right? You don't need to be the leader of an organization or hold a certain title to lead and show leadership skills and to create impact. And some of the people in the book hold leadership titles, and others are just very influential in their own way, whether it's on an international level or in their own community. I think the one thing that really stood out to me the most that I think leaders need to keep in mind is that aspect of motivation and passion, having a personal connection. I think a lot of times for leaders, especially like in corporate or organizations, they're thinking it might be the paycheck that motivates someone or the bonus at the end of the year or whatever it might be. But I think passion and motivation really, when you strip everything back, becomes a lot more personal in terms of what is going to drive you the most. It even kind of connects that idea of people don't leave organizations, they leave managers.

Right. So how are you going to keep that fire alive so that you do give your best and you do keep going? And, you know, I think about, gosh, so many different stories. Like, okay, you mentioned Sherry shepherd, who's actually, like, a very dear friend of mine, and she is a comedian and a talk show host and everything. But, like, if you strip back what it is that she's driving for, she wants to connect people. You know, she talks about in the book, and she talks about how just we live in such a divided world, and people often feel like, oh, I have nothing in common with someone else. Right. And she, through laughter, wants to connect people, even if it's just momentarily for people to have that connection, that relief that, you know, that idea that we're not going to focus on our differences right now. We're going to come together and share a smile and share a moment and a laugh.

I love that. And it came out in so many ways. Deborah Lee Furness is another person in our book. You know, she's kind of this Australian icon. She. She has done such incredible work around children and advocacy for them, for children to have homes. So she does a lot of work with children who have been displaced from their homes and they're in foster care needing to find a forever family. And she talks in her story about, you know, the personal drive that drove her to do this work based on when she and her then husband were trying to form a family and how hard it was.

And she realized, like, this needs to change. So it had that personal connection, but then the ongoing connection is to do the work. She has two nonprofits now, and they do incredible things. She's like, I can't be the numbers person. Like, that'd kill me. I'm not a numbers person. I'm the creative. I need to put together the ideas, the programs, connect the people.

So I do think, you know, for any leader, you need to think of people as individuals, what is personally important to them and think beyond the dollar signs, what else matters to them.

I love that. I was thinking about something you said at the very beginning of what you were sharing where you kind of said, you know, I want to pause and say that everyone can be leaders. How would you kind of differentiate between what this book and these, this sort of. This model and the Firestarter model can be for someone who's maybe in that kind of C suite executive leader role, obviously, like some of the folks you were sharing about who are just like, they run the nonprofit, they run the organization, but. And so they can kind of maybe dictate their surroundings a little more and say, like, I'm not the numbers person, I'm the visionary versus someone who's maybe in more of like a middle level sort of. What are the. How would you. So I guess like, let's go to that sort of middle level.

I'm thinking of someone who's maybe like a DEI leader or a culture leader, but is not maybe a CEO of an organization.

Sure.

How can they. Or what is some advice that you would give them for how to like maintain that passion even though they can't always necessarily dictate the environment around them.

Yeah, well, like, I do a lot of work with employee resource groups. Right. So when you think about ERG leaders, pretty often these are people who are not necessarily going to hold high titles, right?

Yeah.

But they are still given one of the most important roles in an organization. Right. Like bringing people together, making them feel valued and like they belong there, giving opportunity. Right now, what can I, as an entry level programmer do compared to the CEO? You can actually do a lot. So I think it's about stripping away the power dynamics and the titles and focusing solely on what's the goal. What's my North Star? Right. Do I just want people like me to feel like we belong here? You can probably do that a lot more than the CEO can. Right.

Because you hold the passion and the identity and the understanding. And then you figure out, like, if I really want to create that kind of change, how can I work towards it? Like, what's important to me? Am I going to write a thesis on it and hand it to the executive leadership team? No, I don't love writing. Am I going to put together a program with a panel that's really meaningful and where stories are shared and people are moved and they look at the world and the organization differently? You can have immense Impact. So I think every one of us has our own ability, like our own unique way of creating change. That's kind of a tagline I use through the book, like, you know, how are you going to create change in the world in your own unique way? And we all have the ability to do it. And I don't think, you know, Taylor Swift's ability to do it with billions of people is necessarily any more important than the person who lives next door that needs to make impact in the community. I think it's all important.

I really like that. I was thinking about that idea of a lot of times I find in the work that we do is we're maybe sponsored by the C suite, but we're typically working with people that are maybe like one layer down or a couple layers down. And then we also work with folks who are just sort of in the day to day operations really operationalizing DEI and organizational culture work. And I was thinking about how we have. Sometimes people have these really lofty goals. They're like, I'm gonna single handedly change this organization. And I'm like, this is a, you know, tens of thousands of people. Good luck to you in my head.

And so I really like the idea of bring it to your level of like, what are like, let's be realistic about what is the sphere that you have. But then how can you really apply yourself and as you are creative and sort of being that way of thinking, what is it that I can bring to this? So, but can I say something about

please, please, please, even if you're like just little old me, I can't impact tens of thousands of people. You actually might, right? And maybe you don't in that moment, you know, but the ripple effect, the long term and there like I have some personal stories of my own in the book where I talk about that and other people do too, where it's like I didn't know what I was doing. I was just following my heart and doing what's important. But right. And then you look down the road and you see how it did spread and grow. Actually that's the, the, the subtitle of my book also is let your inner spark ignite a change reaction. Right. And opposed to a chain reaction.

Right. But like you could literally be impacting hundreds, thousands, millions of people and you don't even realize that's what to come. But you know, just focus on the one thing right there in front of you and do it really well.

I love it. Give us, give us a small spoiler. What is One of the things from your own experience where you maybe when you were like earlier in your career where you were able to create some change even if you didn't hold that title, I think that could be really valuable for folks to hear.

Well, the story that I tell in the book and I don't want to give away the full spoilers, you don't have to.

You can give us just a couple of three.

But I talk about this was actually outside of work where it was a stage where my husband and I had just gotten engaged. This is, we've been together forever now, 20 some odd years.

We don't have to ask how old you are. We won't do it.

Proud of it. I just hit the big five zero. I'm proud of it.

Nice.

But you know, we had just gotten engaged right after same sex marriage had been nationally legalized and about to send out our wedding announcements and blah blah, blah, in. And a really dear person in my life simultaneously sent out an email to their entire list saying, oh my gosh, they're allowing same sex marriage. We need to stop this, sign this petition. I'm like, so in that moment, it's like, I mean the, the pain and the confusion and the anger. Right. This is courage here. Do I say I'm done with you, I, I don't need you in my life. Or do I say I'm going to stay in the game, I'm going to open up and share with you who I am and what's important to me and I'm going to hope you listen.

And I want to understand what's going on with you where we might see things very differently and to stay open and honest. I talk about how that's exactly what happened with this friendship, one of the most important friendships I have. And, and through the years I didn't know where this person's mind was in terms of same sex marriage. Right. And I are married now. We have kids now. Right. And then lo and behold, years later, this person ended up doing something that was seen by millions of people addressing this exact thing in our relationship and having a completely different perspective.

I had no idea. Right. So you just need to be true to yourself and what's important to you, be courageous.

Yeah. And I think that's really important. The idea that, you know, it is very easy to sort of, especially in these times, I think, where a lot of people are really thinking, you know, what does this have to do with me? And we are very like inward thinking and, and so to take this sort of stand to say, yeah, maybe it would be easier for me to just say goodbye to this friendship and this relationship that I've had and. But instead to say, you know, whether you consciously think about it or not, what are those sort of ripple effects down the line of if I can help this person kind of understand the impact of what they're doing, that is a chance to make a lot of, sort of a ton of. A ton of change down the line. Because then it's, yeah, it helps, obviously, your specific situation, but then it also means other folks can also understand that their words have meaning and then it sort of grows. And so I really love that. I think, you know, you kind of touched on something.

I was, you know, same sex marriage, obviously at the time was very divisive. I feel like I'm an older millennial and I, I remember when it passed and it was super exciting. And I'm from a fairly conservative state in Indiana that was hesitant is probably the nice way to put how they felt about same sex marriage. But we do, we currently live in very polarized times, you know, socially, politically, you name it. And, you know, one of the spaces where we've seen an increase in vitriol and polarization is around the concept of diversity, equity and inclusion and its place in society, in the workplace. And, you know, like us at equity work, you've worked in dei, you've worked in organizational culture and leadership. And so I want to bring this to that level. You know, we sort of talked a little bit about some of the takeaways, but like, if there was like one or two sort of key nuggets that you would think that leaders can apply in their day to day work to kind of remain resilient and sort of maintain that sort of passion that they have and not get burnt out, what would you say to them?

Well, I'm thinking of two things.

Yeah.

One is kind of something that. A way that I've always looked at the work. And another connects to what we were just talking about first. Let me just start by saying, yes, we are living in like such insanely polarized times. Like it is. It's painful. It's so sad. And, you know, for various reasons, diversity, equity, inclusion has become dei, which has this, you know, target on its back.

And in many people's eyes, this very virtuous thing with the best intentions has become, in some people's eyes, you know, an evil target, which is sad. So one thing I'll say is we were, you know, just talking about that idea of sticking with it. I Don't think we should write people off so quickly. And I think a big part of it is that things sometimes are twisted, right?

Yeah.

There's completely misunderst, complete misunderstanding sometimes over what something is and isn't. Sometimes things are done not in the best way or wrong and then people will be like, the whole thing's bad, I'm out. You know, none of it, all of that can go on. So I do think kind of to stick with it for the, for the long game. We have to keep trying to explain what we're going for here and what this work is and what it isn't. And let me say, this work is super tricky and complicated and emotionally exhausting on top of all of that. Right?

Oh, yeah.

But I think our efforts to continue to express what we're going for and to listen to people when they have pushback and to try to see if we can find a way to get on the same page as exhausting as that can be. As much as some of us might be like, I am done, I think in some ways that is still required if we want kind of come around the bend of all of this. The second thing I'm going to say is kind of the, the way I've always described this work, even long before the, the pushback, the intense pushback is at the core of it all. We are talking about some very basic things. In my mind, these are like non negotiable human standards. Right. Like respect.

Yep.

Fairness, dignity, psychological safety. Like giving people an opportunity to thrive. Making sure that the way we communicate can, can be heard by people with all different experiences. Right. Like, that shouldn't be political, that should just be like human basics. And that's why even like as a DI leader, I love this work and I loved doing it and supporting others. And I still, you know, as a consultant and coach, I still get such gratification out of it because like, once people understand what it is, it's like, oh, wait, yeah, that's the stuff of course I want. Oh, that's the stuff that I can do too.

You don't have some magic wand, like you're teaching me how to do my job better, how to write a better job description, how to have more diverse perspectives at the executive table. Right. How not to count someone out in an interview who might bring something incredible to our team. And for some reason my mind told me, nope, not them. Right. Like, so these are human basics. So I think in these really divisive and polarizing times, if we can try just to get Back to those human basics. And that might mean in some ways, like stripping away the language.

Right. If the language is going to shut people down or they're like, nope, not that. Right. How can we get back to this idea of civility and opportunity and, and making people feel so valuable that they're going to come to work and give their best and stick with our company? Because, like, one of the biggest issues we have right now in the workplace, employee engagement is at like an all time low. Right. Like, everyone feels like they're on such shaky ground. People are having a hard time focusing on their job. People are willing to leave in a heartbeat because they feel like they don't matter.

Right.

Mass layoff. I've been with a company for 20 years and then 10 minutes just told me bye, you know, like, so I don't know.

No, I see this work.

So we keep doing the work. We might just not use the same language.

I totally agree. I think I've. The number of times I've gone into, you know, a meeting with one of our partners or a client and, and I've said, you know, you have to play the game of thinking that everyone in this building, if, you know, all things being equal, they would choose not to be here. They would choose to be with their families or with their friends or doing anything else. But they have to be here because that's the world we live in. And so you got to make it acceptable to be here. And so you got to like, the engagement thing is like, you got to make it so that people feel really excited that like, that they're not thinking about the things that they're not doing in their life that they're here for. And so it's, how do you make it? And it is, it's also finding those basics of what is it that people are looking for.

You know, you want respect, I want respect. Let's agree to respect each other. I want, I want to feel included. You want to feel included? Let's include each other. And so it really is, I love that of that little. Just like go back to the things that are just. I mean, it's not to get, you know, religious, but it is, it's that golden rule of I want to treat you in the way that I would also want to be treated. And I want to treat you in the way that you want to be treated.

So how can we.

Platinum level, right?

Yeah. Platinum level, right?

How can I treat you?

Yeah. And so it's, and it is, it's just, you know, it's like, if I think about it, is that I want to be respected and included and feel like I belong at work, I can make a safe bet that other people also want that. And so how can we commit to those things? So even when there's disagreements, we can still commit to it. Yeah, please. Please.

It's interesting the way you said, like, none of these people want to be here. They want to be at home or doing something else. I actually don't look at it that way.

No, no, it's totally fine. I try to. I try to cushion it and not be like, you know, you're doing something wrong. But I very much think that it is, like, if we're really thinking about it from a level of, like, granular human motivation, it is rare that a person would say to themselves, the thing that I would want to be doing is sitting in this meeting about how low our employee engagement is.

Sure, sure.

And, yeah, here's.

Here's one thing that I think about a lot is that idea of, like, feeling a sense of purpose. Right. And kind of. My book's not about find your purpose, but, like, I think when we are trying, for instance, to create change and have impact, it becomes, at least at that stage of your life, a sense of purpose. Right. And you are passionate to go and to do that. And I think that there is potential, even in the workplace for people to be like, I actually love what we are doing here, or I love the feeling I get when I'm here doing what I need to be doing, even if it is mopping the floors. I love coming here because when I step in, people give me a smile and they ask me how my day was and they think of me.

Right? And, like, it feels like a community of support. And I feel like I do belong there, even maybe even if I look totally different from everybody else.

Right.

So I think there actually is an opportunity, even in the workplace, to make it a place where people, hopefully, in one way or another, can feel some sense of passion and, like, a great human experience. You're not always going to get that. That might be very Pollyanna pie in the sky of me, but, like, let's shoot for that. Why not?

No, I think so. And I think, you know, let me evolve my language from what I was saying is that I think it's, how can we make the workplace that. How can you make it a place where people feel that level of engagement that they're not thinking to themselves, I'd rather be out fishing or doing whatever it is that people do outside of Work, and everybody has their own thing, you know? You know, it is. It's like, you know, how can we make this a place where people feel like they're seen and valued? And it's. And it is an equally important part of their life to those other really important things, like their family and their friends and their communities. So how do you sort of elevate the workplace to that thing? And so I love the idea of tying it to, you know, purpose and passion, because that's what people want is they don't want to feel like they're going into the drudgery. They want to feel like they're going to place where they're excited and engaged and they can make a difference.

I want to love fishing and driving my Amazon truck, you know, and I want to be proud to work for Amazon because they are doing this thing and education and I don't know, maybe that's a bad example, but, you know. You know, saying, like, I do think there's potential to make people feel so proud of where they work and whatever their role is, know that they're contributing to the greater good. And I think that's. That's kind of the point of my book anyways. And I think so much DEI work also is like, I'm thinking outside of myself and on behalf of others. Like, why did I enter LGBTQ work originally? Because I had a really hard time growing up, right? And why did I specifically go into LGBT work originally in college campuses? Because when I was in college, like, I was closeted. There was no one who was out around me. I.

I felt so uncomfortable, like a fish out of water. Why did I go into that work? Because I didn't want anybody else to feel that way, right? So it's like when. When you have that purpose and it's beyond you, even if it came from. I talk about, like, micro moments in my micro, right? Like, these little things happen, but they imprint on you and they drive you to go on to do things to create something better for others.

No, I love it. I'm thinking to the client we had where the initial scope of our. Our work with them was that they realized that they had a number of employees who identified as transgender. Whether or not they had, you know, transitioned or, you know, had any medical treatments or any sort of hormone, they identified as transgender. And they're all over the country. And so they're in communities, some that are very supportive, and then some that are not. And so they. They wanted to have a guide for leaders, for how to support people who were going through the transition process, whatever that meant for that person.

And the, the, the most valuable person I talked to was a person who had transitioned at a different company and had an unbelievably negative experience and ended up leaving because of that experience. And their stated purpose was, I don't want anyone here to experience what I experienced. And so how can I help make this. And I mean, that person, I would not have gotten that done without them. And so I think that is that idea of just. And they felt so engaged and they felt. So they thanked me for getting to. I was like, why are you thinking I should thank you? Thank you for sharing with me those things.

We are running on time. So I am going to say our last question, which is, Tom, where can people find you? And where can people find It Lit a Fire.

Thank you for asking. So I am now operating through my company, Next Level Impact. So the website is thenextlevelimpact.com that's me, Tom Borden, connecting me on LinkedIn also. And yeah, nowadays I'm doing a lot of work connected with the book, obviously, but I also do executive coaching and impact coaching and lots of trainings and workshops and consulting. And I just feel really blessed, even kind of with the transition of like, wow, DEI jobs. Those are hard to come by nowadays. You know what? I am focusing on the work that I love and the impact that I want to have on the world. So that's what I'm doing.

My book, It Lit a Fire is. I think you're gonna love it. There's. There's over 20 stories. About half of them are from notable public figures like you mentioned, and then just everyday change agents. Also, these are all people who have been in my life and had an impact in one way or another, and they have incredible stories and I think we all have an incredible story and I think we all have the ability to have impact. So the book It Lit a Fire can be found@itlitafire.com you can also go to my website, which the first one is going to auto direct you to anyways. But you can get the book there and then it's available everywhere else like Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, all of those places.

You should be able to find it. And there's also a companion impact journal that if people are interested in that, where you can kind of reflect more on the prompts and the exercises that are in the book.

I love it. Well, please everyone go out and get Dr. Tom Borden's debut book, It Lit a Fire, and then also you can find Tom at Next Level Impact. Tom, just thank you so so much for joining us here in your DI Minute and sharing your insights and knowledge with us. We are just so grateful to have had you.

Thanks so much Jamie.

Appreciate it.

Take care.

That's a wrap. I'm Jamie Applegate and that's your DEI minute for today. Thank you for listening. Please be sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts. And don't forget to leave us a review. If you ever have questions, please visit our website or send us an email. You can also sign up for our newsletter and follow us on LinkedIn, YouTube, and Instagram. Links to everything can be found in the episode Notes.

This episode was edited and produced by Pod Pro with podcast art by me, Jamie Applegate.